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View Full Version : As much as I want AJ to go to the All Star Game but....


whitesoxfan1986
07-04-2006, 09:18 PM
I personally think Liriano is more deserving. He has been lights out. Somebody email Ozzie and ask him why Liriano is not on the team. The way Liriano is pitching he could be the 1st rookie ever to win the Cy Young. Please don't flame me. Just my opinion.

Dan Mega
07-04-2006, 09:20 PM
I personally think Liriano is more deserving. He has been lights out. Somebody email Ozzie and ask him why Liriano is not on the team. The way Liriano is pitching he could be the 1st rookie ever to win the Cy Young. Please don't flame me. Just my opinion.

I heard the reason why is that the pitching is pretty full now on the AL All Star team. I could be wrong.

JB98
07-04-2006, 09:29 PM
I personally think Liriano is more deserving. He has been lights out. Somebody email Ozzie and ask him why Liriano is not on the team. The way Liriano is pitching he could be the 1st rookie ever to win the Cy Young. Please don't flame me. Just my opinion.

Liriano needs to pay his dues. That's why he isn't on the team.

buehrle4cy05
07-04-2006, 09:32 PM
I had a Sox fan who I asked to vote for AJ tell me the exact same thing. My response was that Liriano will make plenty of All-Star games before his career is over. This may be AJ's last chance to make an All-Star game (although I hope it isn't), so let's get him there.

FedEx227
07-04-2006, 09:33 PM
Liriano needs to pay his dues. That's why he isn't on the team.

Okay, Dan Uggla and Freddy Sanchez sure found a way past that, as well as Papelbon.

JB98
07-04-2006, 09:35 PM
I had a Sox fan who I asked to vote for AJ tell me the exact same thing. My response was that Liriano will make plenty of All-Star games before his career is over. This may be AJ's last chance to make an All-Star game (although I hope it isn't), so let's get him there.

Here's my take: Liriano is on a hot streak right now. Is one hot streak good enough to get you into the All-Star game? I say no. He doesn't deserve to be taken ahead of someone like Buerhle, who has been a top-of-the-rotation starter for five or six years. Up until this year, Liriano was nothing but a prospect. Let's see if he can pitch well for a full year before rewarding him with an All-Star appearance.

JB98
07-04-2006, 09:38 PM
Okay, Dan Uggla and Freddy Sanchez sure found a way past that, as well as Papelbon.

Dan Uggla and Freddy Sanchez would never qualify as All-Stars in the American League. Their selections are the product of a weak National League. As for Papelbon, it's easier to make the squad as a closer than as a starter. There are fewer deserving closers than there are deserving starters.

Chips
07-04-2006, 09:46 PM
This may be AJ's last chance to make an All-Star game (although I hope it isn't), so let's get him there.

AJ is 29 years old. He has plenty of good seasons left in him. He will have plenty of chances to make more All Star teams.

Brian26
07-04-2006, 09:48 PM
I personally think Liriano is more deserving. He has been lights out. Somebody email Ozzie and ask him why Liriano is not on the team. The way Liriano is pitching he could be the 1st rookie ever to win the Cy Young. Please don't flame me. Just my opinion.

Dude, I just threw another 40 votes in for AJ. Don't spoil my evening.

Frater Perdurabo
07-04-2006, 09:51 PM
They really ought to have a 32nd and 33rd man voting for the AL and NL: one vote among five pitchers and one vote among five hitters. That way an additional pitcher and an additional hitter could go from each league.

Banix12
07-04-2006, 09:57 PM
When Mark Redman is an all-star all rules on what is fair and who deserves to go fly out the window.

Punch AJ!!!

Deuce
07-04-2006, 09:58 PM
I personally think Liriano is more deserving.What does merit have to do with the All-Star game? :redneck

MarySwiss
07-04-2006, 10:12 PM
What does merit have to do with the All-Star game? :redneck
Exactly!

Fuller_Schettman
07-04-2006, 10:27 PM
Liriano definitely deserves a spot. I love AJ, but you cannot ignore 9-1...

fquaye149
07-04-2006, 10:41 PM
All this talk about Liriano, when there's a more obvious candidate to trump AJ...

How about, um, Travis Hafner?

This is the second straight year he's been screwed.

Hell, I think Verlander probably deserves it more than AJ based on his first half (though not necessarily why someone should or should not make an AS team)

I'm still going to vote AJ, since I don't really care about who "should" or "shoudln't" make it in what is such a farcical voting situation.

But just saying--hafner ought to go.

edit: btw, didn't valenzuela win the cy young as a rookie?

Zisk77
07-04-2006, 11:27 PM
Don't cry for Liriano. Since Jose is pitching on the last day before the break, don't be surprised if he bows out of the all star game ( at least I hope so - we need a healthy Jose for the stretch run). Also, someone on both sides bows out at the last minute to rest and nurse minor injuries rathjer than play.

RKMeibalane
07-04-2006, 11:29 PM
Okay, Dan Uggla and Freddy Sanchez sure found a way past that, as well as Papelbon.

And Ryan Howard, though his ROY Award from last season could count towards paying his dues.

Oblong
07-04-2006, 11:55 PM
Wasn't AJ an All Star a few years ago?

I didn't realize his BA was so high.

I think Hafner's the most deserving but obviously that's not the criteria we are encouraged to use by MLB and the teams.

Chips
07-04-2006, 11:57 PM
Wasn't AJ an All Star a few years ago?

I didn't realize his BA was so high.

I think Hafner's the most deserving but obviously that's not the criteria we are encouraged to use by MLB and the teams.

He made the team in 2002.

JB98
07-05-2006, 12:03 AM
Don't cry for Liriano. Since Jose is pitching on the last day before the break, don't be surprised if he bows out of the all star game ( at least I hope so - we need a healthy Jose for the stretch run). Also, someone on both sides bows out at the last minute to rest and nurse minor injuries rathjer than play.

I hope Jose stays in the All-Star game. After all he has been through (defecting from Cuba, the fiasco in New York, finally getting his family into this country) and after all he has done for our team, he deserves to be there. Even if he doesn't appear in the game, or only pitches to one batter or something, Jose belongs in Pittsburgh next Tuesday night.

SOXintheBURGH
07-05-2006, 12:36 AM
edit: btw, didn't valenzuela win the cy young as a rookie?

Yes.

vegyrex
07-05-2006, 01:05 AM
I personally think Liriano is more deserving.
That's nice. :rolleyes:

hawkjt
07-05-2006, 01:21 AM
My problem with elevating Liriano to All star status at this point is that he has only started and won three whole games against the AL. Two of them he beat Seattle I believe. I do not think he has beaten a winning AL team yet.

He has piled up some nice stats against the NL Central mainly. I am not that impressed with the NL Central.

He should do it for a whole year like Jose and then get on the team next year.

areilly
07-05-2006, 01:34 AM
I hope AJ makes it. For him, for sure, but also for us, for the White Sox fanbase that has had the rest of the baseball world hate us for any reason they could.

From the paper downtown that promotes its own product first to the Angels personnel who think it was AJ's fault that Kelvim Escobar can't make a clean tag to the ESPN lemmings that voted David Ortiz the most deserving first baseman in the AL, I want them all to get a big middle finger with the letters S-O-X written on it letting them know once and for all that you cannot **** with this team and with its fans.

Go AJ go.

ZachAL
07-05-2006, 01:36 AM
Liriano is 9-1 with something like a 1.99 era. How can you say this guy has to pay his dues, he has done everything asked of him. If the allstar game was about paying your dues then maybe he shouldn't play, but if it's about awarding the best performing players each season then he should have been either selected or voted in. I love AJ, he is one of my favorite players on the team, but how can you say he is more deserving than Liriano especially when this game has consequences which hopefully we will be able to partake in (i.e. WS '06). I abstain my vote due to conflicting love for AJ and moral conscience.

DSpivack
07-05-2006, 02:09 AM
Liriano is 9-1 with something like a 1.99 era. How can you say this guy has to pay his dues, he has done everything asked of him. If the allstar game was about paying your dues then maybe he shouldn't play, but if it's about awarding the best performing players each season then he should have been either selected or voted in. I love AJ, he is one of my favorite players on the team, but how can you say he is more deserving than Liriano especially when this game has consequences which hopefully we will be able to partake in (i.e. WS '06). I abstain my vote due to conflicting love for AJ and moral conscience.

Moral conscience? I'd have a moral conscience if the All-Star game wasn't a farce with the East Coast starting and Mark Redman making it. Also hawkjt hit it on the head; many of his starts came against the miNor League, so those stats should really just be thrown out the window. Call me selfish, but after years of Boston and New York crap out there, here's our chance to get as many Sox players on the team as possible. That's why I'm voting AJ. Also, it's not like AJ isn't deserving; I wouldn't have voted him in at this point last year when he was batting around .240.

ZachAL
07-05-2006, 02:40 AM
Moral conscience? I'd have a moral conscience if the All-Star game wasn't a farce with the East Coast starting and Mark Redman making it. Also hawkjt hit it on the head; many of his starts came against the miNor League, so those stats should really just be thrown out the window. Call me selfish, but after years of Boston and New York crap out there, here's our chance to get as many Sox players on the team as possible. That's why I'm voting AJ. Also, it's not like AJ isn't deserving; I wouldn't have voted him in at this point last year when he was batting around .240.

Come on Spivvvvvy, I know you're a reasonable man and I have enjoyed watching sox games with you, but aren't we the same people who go on and on about how much of a farce it is and look down upon this whole thing. And now we're joining it? Lets hold ourselves to a higher standard as the smartest fans in baseball. Liriano has started against who he has started against, he doesn't choose. Either way, wins aside the kid has a 1.99 era which he has accumulated over the course of the season. I will be happy if AJ makes it because I don't think either player will have a significant role, but some people are being hipocritical to the n'th degree. It's just hard to see so many people complaining about who DID make the allstar team from out east and wasn't worthy and then see them on the go AJ bandwagon doing the same thing. I will be happy to see AJ go and you know I love him, but i tend to think Liriano would help us get that homefield advantage a little more.

Steelrod
07-05-2006, 02:56 AM
Liriano definitely deserves a spot. I love AJ, but you cannot ignore 9-1...
Sure I can!

Chisox003
07-05-2006, 03:00 AM
Sure I can!
Not only can I, but I can assure you I will.

Look, do you think any other fans are out there saying "Well Hafner's having an outstanding year, but I really appreciate AJ for handling his pitchers so well and being the centerpiece of a championship run. I'll vote for him!"

:rolleyes:

I doubt it. Vote AJ please and lets stop this silliness.

rowand33
07-05-2006, 04:08 AM
AJ isn't even having the best season for a catcher on that list (if anybody thinks that Aj's 2006 season is better than Ramon Hernandez's, they're crazy...)

But like pople have said, Mark ****ing Redman is an allstar.

AJ's our guy. I want him there.

Vote AJ!

psyclonis
07-05-2006, 05:28 AM
IMO you're not a true sox fan if you don't want AJ in the ASG... With all the crap we went through in past ASGs-only seeing 1-2 guys make it, I'd love to see 7 sox in the game.
I personally want to see Crede make it too. (hoping what ozzie said was true)

TornLabrum
07-05-2006, 08:33 AM
IMO you're not a true sox fan if you don't want AJ in the ASG... With all the crap we went through in past ASGs-only seeing 1-2 guys make it, I'd love to see 7 sox in the game.
I personally want to see Crede make it too. (hoping what ozzie said was true)

Let's not go down that road. I have yet to see any published criteria for being a "true Sox fan." So unless you want to find yourself on the outside looking in, don't ever say that again. By definition, everybody here except for the occasional moron and Tigers fan is a true Sox fan.

LauraJ14
07-05-2006, 09:28 AM
Has Hafner played first base this season besides in interleague play?
That's why I would not vote for him. The game is in a NL park and Ozzie needs players to play the field not more DH's.

Vote AJ!

soxfan13
07-05-2006, 10:24 AM
All this talk about Liriano, when there's a more obvious candidate to trump AJ...

How about, um, Travis Hafner?

This is the second straight year he's been screwed.

Hell, I think Verlander probably deserves it more than AJ based on his first half (though not necessarily why someone should or should not make an AS team)

I'm still going to vote AJ, since I don't really care about who "should" or "shoudln't" make it in what is such a farcical voting situation.

But just saying--hafner ought to go.

edit: btw, didn't valenzuela win the cy young as a rookie?

Yes Fernando did win as a rookie over a more deserving ToM Seaver

FedEx227
07-05-2006, 10:50 AM
For people wonder Liriano's starts this year they go as follows

Milwaukee 5.0 IP, 2 H, 5 Ks, 0 ER

Seattle 5.0 IP, 4 H, 6 Ks, 0 ER

Angels 6.0 IP, 1 H, 4 Ks, 0 ER

Seattle (his only loss) 6 IP, 7 H, 3 Ks, 3 ER

Baltimore 7 IP, 1 H, 6 Ks, 0 ER

Pittsburgh 7 IP, 5 H, 11 Ks, 2 ER

Houston 8 IP, 4 H, 7 Ks, 2 ER

Milwaukee 8 IP, 3 H, 12 Ks, 0 ER

PennStater98r
07-05-2006, 11:10 AM
Come on Spivvvvvy, I know you're a reasonable man and I have enjoyed watching sox games with you, but aren't we the same people who go on and on about how much of a farce it is and look down upon this whole thing. And now we're joining it? Lets hold ourselves to a higher standard as the smartest fans in baseball. Liriano has started against who he has started against, he doesn't choose. Either way, wins aside the kid has a 1.99 era which he has accumulated over the course of the season. I will be happy if AJ makes it because I don't think either player will have a significant role, but some people are being hipocritical to the n'th degree. It's just hard to see so many people complaining about who DID make the allstar team from out east and wasn't worthy and then see them on the go AJ bandwagon doing the same thing. I will be happy to see AJ go and you know I love him, but i tend to think Liriano would help us get that homefield advantage a little more.

First of all, AJ deserves to be there instead of I-Rod. Mauer should be starting and AJ should be the reserve.

Liriano has not been around the league a second time. That's why I am not voting for him. If you can go around the league twice and put up the numbers he's sporting so far - then I'm impressed.

I am NOT voting a mop-up guy turned starter to the All Star game. I believe he has a win or five in relief - which is/are simply lottery wins.

AJ has been catching all year. It's not as though he's putting up his numbers with 1/2 his time spent at DH. There's something to be said about that.

PennStater98r
07-05-2006, 11:16 AM
AJ isn't even having the best season for a catcher on that list (if anybody thinks that Aj's 2006 season is better than Ramon Hernandez's, they're crazy...)

Now - there's a load of crap.

What record does Baltimore have with Ramon's numbers?

AJ has his eye on the prize - another championship. Ramon has his eye on his stats and a big contract - anyone know if Ramon has Bora$ as his agent?

Once again - isn't this the first year that Ramon has put up these kind of numbers (with a .274 Avg anyway).

FedEx227
07-05-2006, 11:52 AM
I am NOT voting a mop-up guy turned starter to the All Star game. I believe he has a win or five in relief - which is/are simply lottery wins.
Um... do you happen to follow baseball outside of Chicago at all?

Liriano is not a mop-up guy. He was merely in the bullpen until Minnesota figured out what to do with Kyle Lohse. They found out Lohse was completely lost and finally demoted him knowing full well that Liriano was ready.

They did a similar thing with this other "mop-up guy" Johan Santana early in his career putting him in the bullpen until they could fully determine there was space for him. And apparently he's done pretty well.

If you remotely followed baseball at all you would know Liriano has been a top starting pitching prospect for 2-3 years now and is the farthest thing from a mop-up guy.

Btw, he has 1 win in relief, and 8 as a starter.

ZachAL
07-05-2006, 12:27 PM
If you remotely followed baseball at all you would know Liriano has been a top starting pitching prospect for 2-3 years now and is the farthest thing from a mop-up guy.

Ha good post fedex, pennstater's logic is puzzling. We should all realize the BIG LOSER in this is the SF Giants. They traded two prospects (Liriano and Nathan) to the twins for AJ. Now they have none of those players, two of which are being mentioned for the allstar game and the third isnt so terrible.

rowand33
07-05-2006, 12:39 PM
Now - there's a load of crap.

What record does Baltimore have with Ramon's numbers?

AJ has his eye on the prize - another championship. Ramon has his eye on his stats and a big contract - anyone know if Ramon has Bora$ as his agent?

Once again - isn't this the first year that Ramon has put up these kind of numbers (with a .274 Avg anyway).

That doesn't matter.

An allstar selection is an individual accomplishment not a team accomplishment, so throw out the "what's baltimores record" argument.

What's our record with Brian Anderson playing? Wow! It's good. Send him to Pittsburgh.

And as for the "first year he's put up these numbers" thing... who cares. It's the 2006 allstar game, not the career allstar game. That's why there's no griffey... no bonds... no frank...

compare the two:
Hernandez:
.274 AVG 33 R 19 2B 15 HR 59 RBI

AJ:
.327 AVG 32 R 17 2B 5 HR 27 RBI

Hernandez has put up better numbers and is on pace for a 30 HR 100 RBI season out of the catcher position. If you don't think that that's more allstar worthy than the fact athat AJ is hitting for average, you have to be nuts. Hernandez is having a really special season.

I love AJ. I'm voting for AJ. but the fact that people on this board are being dumb enough to think he deserves this based on his performance this year amazes me.

AJ's having a great season. but everybody else on that ballot is more deserving of him based on this year. We'll get AJ in, but can all at least stop lying to ourselves?

hawkjt
07-05-2006, 01:10 PM
I will admit to being totally biased toward a sox player and yes statistically the others on the list look better than AJ.

However, when you consider that Hernandez has hit 5th all season he should have more rbis than AJ at 6th behind 3 guys that have 60 rbis minimum.

Also AJ is hitting a full 55 points better than hernandez. If there were guys on base he would have driven them in.

Also, did you hear them say yesterday that Lopez was like 0-5 starting the season with Hernandez catching and now has rebounded big-time with Lopez behind the plate? We watch AJ play everyday and we know he helps the pitchers not hurts them. I give the big intangible edge to AJ.

Thats my case.

ewokpelts
07-05-2006, 01:32 PM
Um... do you happen to follow baseball outside of Chicago at all?

Liriano is not a mop-up guy. He was merely in the bullpen until Minnesota figured out what to do with Kyle Lohse. They found out Lohse was completely lost and finally demoted him knowing full well that Liriano was ready.

They did a similar thing with this other "mop-up guy" Johan Santana early in his career putting him in the bullpen until they could fully determine there was space for him. And apparently he's done pretty well.

If you remotely followed baseball at all you would know Liriano has been a top starting pitching prospect for 2-3 years now and is the farthest thing from a mop-up guy.

Btw, he has 1 win in relief, and 8 as a starter.for a local comparison, buehrle was a reliever for almost a year after he got called up

ewokpelts
07-05-2006, 01:35 PM
Ha good post fedex, pennstater's logic is puzzling. We should all realize the BIG LOSER in this is the SF Giants. They traded two prospects (Liriano and Nathan) to the twins for AJ. Now they have none of those players, two of which are being mentioned for the allstar game and the third isnt so terrible.the curse of barroid?

SBSoxFan
07-05-2006, 02:08 PM
I will admit to being totally biased toward a sox player and yes statistically the others on the list look better than AJ.

However, when you consider that Hernandez has hit 5th all season he should have more rbis than AJ at 6th behind 3 guys that have 60 rbis minimum.

Also AJ is hitting a full 55 points better than hernandez. If there were guys on base he would have driven them in.

Also, did you hear them say yesterday that Lopez was like 0-5 starting the season with Hernandez catching and now has rebounded big-time with Lopez behind the plate? We watch AJ play everyday and we know he helps the pitchers not hurts them. I give the big intangible edge to AJ.

Thats my case.

I think AJ is hitting less than .220 with RISP. However, you bring up a good point. Along with intangibles, can't we compare defense? Didn't AJ set or tie a record this year for most chances without an error by a catcher? Unfortunately, too few people look at defense which is why the AL has Glauss starting at third. :rolleyes:

DSpivack
07-05-2006, 02:54 PM
Come on Spivvvvvy, I know you're a reasonable man and I have enjoyed watching sox games with you, but aren't we the same people who go on and on about how much of a farce it is and look down upon this whole thing. And now we're joining it? Lets hold ourselves to a higher standard as the smartest fans in baseball. Liriano has started against who he has started against, he doesn't choose. Either way, wins aside the kid has a 1.99 era which he has accumulated over the course of the season. I will be happy if AJ makes it because I don't think either player will have a significant role, but some people are being hipocritical to the n'th degree. It's just hard to see so many people complaining about who DID make the allstar team from out east and wasn't worthy and then see them on the go AJ bandwagon doing the same thing. I will be happy to see AJ go and you know I love him, but i tend to think Liriano would help us get that homefield advantage a little more.

I don't see it as hypocritical; the All-Star game is currently a farce, and until it's "fixed" I'd like to see it as many Sox players in it as we can get in. It's not like I'm saying Brian, Garland, or Vazquez should go. AJ is batting .320 and is a terrific catcher (may not be the best defensively, but very good calling games).

Also, I'm a little wary of voting a rookie who has yet to face a good lineup into the all-star game. Why shouldn't Jered Weaver go? If Liriano proves himself as a good pitcher next year and years beyond, then he'll forget about ever being "snubbed" once. Also, I have no problem in having a career reputation being a factor into putting players into the All-Star game. This is why Buehrle should go. I'd say there's a difference between an All-Star and someone who has put together 81 good games.

Green
07-05-2006, 03:28 PM
Not taking away from Liriano but...

Milwaukee x2
Seattle x2
Dodgers
Angels
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Houston

That's who he's pitched against so far. He has only faced two teams with winning records and those teams are a -combined- three games over .500.

ma-gaga
07-05-2006, 06:21 PM
Some would describe me as an occasional moron, but Liriano right now is more valuable than AJ. However, as a Twins fan, I hope he doesn't make it. I want that arm iced and rested next week... It's just too damn valuable to be injured during a exhibition game.

So, vote for AJ. Vote early, vote often.