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View Full Version : What about Crede?! Glaus in the ASG?


Shoeless_Jim
07-02-2006, 10:34 PM
Looks like Crede didnt make it....that is bull crap, Glaus who is hitting .248 made it instead as a reserve. A-rod is starting of course, but Crede deserved to make it. Who really voted for Glaus?

make sure you vote for AJ!

TheDarkGundam
07-02-2006, 10:35 PM
That thread title was a very bad idea.
EDIT: Nice save

IlliniSox4Life
07-02-2006, 10:37 PM
He's not long for this world.

DeuceUnit
07-02-2006, 10:37 PM
I'm gonna give this one about 2 minutes...if that

SweetnesSox
07-02-2006, 10:38 PM
d'oh! :redneck
good edit, might be too late though. next time think about what you type/say/believe before you do it.

IlliniSox4Life
07-02-2006, 10:39 PM
I wonder what the odds are that he changed the title in time?

SweetnesSox
07-02-2006, 10:40 PM
I wonder what the odds are that he changed the title in time?

I'll give you 2-1 odds

ScottySoxinCA
07-02-2006, 10:41 PM
Our Joe Crede?

.303 batting average with 16 HR

Troy Glaus

.248 batting average with 22 HR

....not to mention the gold glove defense Crede brings to the hot corner every night


Give me Joe.....

aryzner
07-02-2006, 10:46 PM
Joe is my favorite Sox 3B since Robin Ventura and I do think he deserves a spot in the ASG but what are ya gonna do ya know :[

rookie
07-02-2006, 10:58 PM
On the Score (Last Call) they said that Ozzie said that if anyone can't go (besides the ones that are already not going) that Joe is the replacement. Regardless of what position it is.

Shoeless_Jim
07-02-2006, 11:08 PM
On the Score (Last Call) they said that Ozzie said that if anyone can't go (besides the ones that are already not going) that Joe is the replacement. Regardless of what position it is.

yeah but it still isnt the same. how would you like to say to your kids or relatives: "I kind of made the All-Star game, i was the Alternate!" Sweet!

IlliniSox4Life
07-02-2006, 11:10 PM
yeah but it still isnt the same. how would you like to say to your kids or relatives: "I kind of made the All-Star game, i was the Alternate!" Sweet!

I'm sure all the Yankees and Red Sox don't say "I made it because my team is more popular!" If you make it, you make it.

Shoeless_Jim
07-02-2006, 11:14 PM
I'm sure all the Yankees and Red Sox don't say "I made it because my team is more popular!" If you make it, you make it.


true.

I will just end what i started b/c i thought to myslef im sure that Crede will make the AST a few times in his career in his upcoming years. He will probably and should win a couple gold gloves. maybe this year?

DaleJRFan
07-02-2006, 11:34 PM
So we need someone to get injured for Crede to go to the ASG and we need to vote in AJ for the final ASG roster spot???

Man, the hoops we have to jump through to get the soul of this team on the AllStar team.

DaleJRFan
07-02-2006, 11:37 PM
I'm sure all the Yankees and Red Sox don't say "I made it because my team is more popular!" If you make it, you make it.

I never understood the whining about the starting 8 for the AL - not being Sox players. Look at those names... those guys are ALL elite players with the exception of Mark Loretta, who is having a great year and was ALWAYS overlooked in San Diego.

There are 6 WS players going to Pittsburgh (and possibly eight with AJ and Crede)... so let's all be happy with the awesome representation!!!

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Let's not forget Ozzie is up for the ultimate MLB Manager award, the ESPY for best coach/manager...

FedEx227
07-02-2006, 11:59 PM
They are about even when you look at all the numbers. Glaus has some higher power numbers and a slighty better OPS (.880), but what'chu gonna do?

BainesHOF
07-03-2006, 12:31 AM
You can only pick so many White Sox players, but Crede deserved to go more than Buehrle this year.

anewman35
07-03-2006, 12:36 AM
According to chicagosports.com, Glaus won the player vote for third, and Chavez came in second. So, at least Ozzie doesn't take the blame for this one.

rookie
07-03-2006, 01:20 AM
In Phil Rogers's article he makes it seem like the only way Crede could've gotten in was through the 32nd man vote (Ozzie needed 2 pitchers and a 1st baseman who actually plays 1st base).

So it became Crede or AJ? Who would you pick (knowing that neither might make it)? I don't know how Ozzie made that decision, I know I can't. Maybe Ozzie feels bad for all the personal attacks that AJ has to endure?

slobes
07-03-2006, 01:27 AM
Ozzie said htat if someone gets injured in the next week, no matter what position they are, he will use Crede as the sub.

Sox-o-matic
07-03-2006, 02:23 AM
Not to get off topic, but I think Crede and Iguchi deserve to be in the AS game a lot more than Buerhrle and Contreras do. Even though I've aways been a Sox fan, I have to admit that had I been in Ozzie's shoes, Liriano would be on the team instead of one of those two. And I have no idea why the players would pick Glaus instead of Crede. BS.

IlliniSox4Life
07-03-2006, 03:20 AM
Not to get off topic, but I think Crede and Iguchi deserve to be in the AS game a lot more than Buerhrle and Contreras do. Even though I've aways been a Sox fan, I have to admit that had I been in Ozzie's shoes, Liriano would be on the team instead of one of those two. And I have no idea why the players would pick Glaus instead of Crede. BS.


More than Contreras?! More than "I just set the record for most consecutive wins by a Sox player" Contreras?!

:dtroll:

TheOldRoman
07-03-2006, 03:24 AM
Not to get off topic, but I think Crede and Iguchi deserve to be in the AS game a lot more than Buerhrle and Contreras do. Even though I've aways been a Sox fan, I have to admit that had I been in Ozzie's shoes, Liriano would be on the team instead of one of those two. And I have no idea why the players would pick Glaus instead of Crede. BS.
You can make an arguement that Buehrle shouldn'e be on the team. It wouldn't be a solid arguement, but you could make it. You couldn't possibly make an arguement that Contreras doesn't deserve to be on the team. *****.

Sox-o-matic
07-03-2006, 03:44 AM
You can make an arguement that Buehrle shouldn'e be on the team. It wouldn't be a solid arguement, but you could make it. You couldn't possibly make an arguement that Contreras doesn't deserve to be on the team. *****.

I never said either Jose or Mark shouldn't be on the team. I only said that Iguchi and Crede are more deserving than they are right now IMO. The reason I say that is because, just look at the final vote candidates. You have Verlander and Liriano, both whom have done as much or more to bring their teams to where they are this year so far than Mark and Jose have. At best, the performance of Contreras/Buehrle compared to Verlander/Liriano is not a huge difference. On the flip side, I think Iguchi and Crede are much better any way you slice it than Loretta and Glaus.

Grzegorz
07-03-2006, 05:42 AM
You can only pick so many White Sox players, but Crede deserved to go more than Buehrle this year.

Without question Crede deserves the All-Star game spot than Buehrle.

Crede_Fan
07-03-2006, 09:41 AM
Cano & Rios are both on the DL. Have they already been replaced? Or does this open the spot for Crede? If the spots are open, I would think that Ozzie would replace them with Crede & Grandersen/Maggs.

bigsqwert
07-03-2006, 09:50 AM
You can only pick so many White Sox players, but Crede deserved to go more than Buehrle this year.No doubt. Mark's numbers aren't as bad as they could be because a lot of runs he has given up have been unearned this year. He seems to have trouble pitching over mistakes. Crede has been consistent throughout the entire first half.

bigsqwert
07-03-2006, 09:53 AM
You can make an arguement that Buehrle shouldn'e be on the team. It wouldn't be a solid arguement, but you could make it.Look at the numbers for Mussina, Verlander, Robertson, Liriano and Schilling and tell me that there isn't a solid argument that they are more deserving than Mark.

sullythered
07-03-2006, 10:39 AM
I wish the rules were never changed so Ozzie could bring, like, twelve guys from the Sox like Torre used to do with the Yankees. I don't care who's deserving. I'm a Sox fan. I want every other player on every other team to experience a great deal of dissapointment this season, in a lot of ways.

rookie
07-03-2006, 10:41 AM
You can't really compare Crede vs Mark for the All-Star Team. One's a pitcher and one's a hitter.

bigsqwert
07-03-2006, 10:44 AM
You can't really compare Crede vs Mark for the All-Star Team. One's a pitcher and one's a hitter.Why not? One player is having a career year while one player is having a decent year.

Beer Can Chicken
07-03-2006, 11:55 AM
Look at the numbers for Mussina, Verlander, Robertson, Liriano and Schilling and tell me that there isn't a solid argument that they are more deserving than Mark.

Liriano's numbers are sick. 9-1, 1.99 ERA, 81 IP, 94 Ks, 20 BBs, 59 Hits. I personally think he got snubbed big time. As far as the others, Buehrle has just as good of numbers.

Ozzie's the manger, to the winner goes the spoils.

bigsqwert
07-03-2006, 12:05 PM
As far as the others, Buehrle has just as good of numbers. If you look at their numbers you will notice that you are incorrect.

FedEx227
07-03-2006, 12:13 PM
If you look at their numbers you will notice that you are incorrect.

It's almost no contest if you look at the stats:

Wins
Liriano: 9
Buehrle: 9

Starts
Liriano: 9
Buehrle: 17

Losses
Liriano: 1
Buehrle: 5

Strikeouts
Liriano: 94
Buehlre: 50

ERA
Liriano: 1.99
Buehrle: 3.86

WHIP
Liriano: 0.97
Buehrle: 1.31

oppBA
Liriano: .203
Buehrle: .275

Frater Perdurabo
07-03-2006, 12:57 PM
They are about even when you look at all the numbers. Glaus has some higher power numbers and a slighty better OPS (.880), but what'chu gonna do?

Glaus has nowhere near the glove that Crede does.

rookie
07-03-2006, 02:09 PM
Why not? One player is having a career year while one player is having a decent year.

Because if you need a pitcher (Mark) you can't take a hitter over him (Crede) unless the Crede is going to pitch. I read somewhere that they take 12 pitchers. If you need a real first baseman to play 1st (Konerko) because the other "1st basemen" are really DH's then Crede has no spot.

Ozzie had 3 picks, 2 pitchers and 1 hitter. They're not really interchangable. It's not like he can say, wait let me take 2 hitters and 1 pitcher. (Plus I don't know if Mark being a lefty had anything to do with it.)

Mark didn't take Joe's spot. Boston Red Sox/Yankees/NL Park-no DH/players' vote took Joe's spot.

FedEx227
07-03-2006, 03:12 PM
Glaus has nowhere near the glove that Crede does.

I know, no doubt. That's why I said when you look at the numbers. From a statistical standpoint there is no way to give Crede justice, which is a shame.

Shoeless_Jim
07-03-2006, 04:18 PM
It's almost no contest if you look at the stats:

Wins
Liriano: 9
Buehrle: 9

Starts
Liriano: 9
Buehrle: 17

Losses
Liriano: 1
Buehrle: 5

Strikeouts
Liriano: 94
Buehlre: 50

ERA
Liriano: 1.99
Buehrle: 3.86

WHIP
Liriano: 0.97
Buehrle: 1.31

oppBA
Liriano: .203
Buehrle: .275

if Liriano is 9-1 why do you say he only has 9 starts?

FedEx227
07-03-2006, 04:21 PM
Because he came out of the bullpen for a good portion of this season until they finally gave the heave-ho to Kyle Lohse.

Shoeless_Jim
07-03-2006, 04:22 PM
Because he came out of the bullpen for a good portion of this season until they finally gave the heave-ho to Kyle Lohse.

ahh okay.

IlliniSox4Life
07-03-2006, 04:28 PM
Because he came out of the bullpen for a good portion of this season until they finally gave the heave-ho to Kyle Lohse.

To me, if you don't play the majority of the first half at the position you are trying to get into the ASG at, you should be penalized. There are plenty of players who have had great quarter seasons. You have to do it over damn near a half season to get my vote.

Shoeless_Jim
07-03-2006, 04:31 PM
To me, if you don't play the majority of the first half at the position you are trying to get into the ASG at, you should be penalized. There are plenty of players who have had great quarter seasons. You have to do it over damn near a half season to get my vote.


good point... hopefully he wont get voted in.

FedEx227
07-03-2006, 04:54 PM
To me, if you don't play the majority of the first half at the position you are trying to get into the ASG at, you should be penalized. There are plenty of players who have had great quarter seasons. You have to do it over damn near a half season to get my vote.

What would the extra 3-4 weeks mean? The man has been absolutely lights-out, why should he be punished because the Twins didn't have any early season urgency? It's no surprise that ever since he's been brought up the Twins have been one of the hottest teams in the league.

1917
07-03-2006, 04:58 PM
Just a heads up, I know this might have been said but I didn't look thru all the responses, but Rios and Cano are out, look for Crede and Maggs to take their place...

Sxy Mofo
07-03-2006, 04:59 PM
Who wants great defense, good hitting and ice water veins?


Not me, that's for sure! A-rod! A-rod! A-rod!

rookie
07-03-2006, 07:26 PM
Just a heads up, I know this might have been said but I didn't look thru all the responses, but Rios and Cano are out, look for Crede and Maggs to take their place...

They replaced them before the official announcments. I might be wrong, but it might have been to make sure that Seattle and Texas have a representative.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060702&content_id=1535051&vkey=allstar2006&fext=.jsp


Guillen's crew also had to replace two injured players already ruled out of the game. Cano and Rios, both chosen by the players' vote as first-time All-Star, were replaced by Seattle second baseman Jose Lopez and Rangers outfielder Gary Matthews Jr.

fquaye149
07-03-2006, 07:47 PM
Look at the numbers for Mussina, Verlander, Robertson, Liriano and Schilling and tell me that there isn't a solid argument that they are more deserving than Mark.

****ING CHRIST!. How hard is this to understand. It's not the "Having a good first half of the season game." Verlander, Robertson and Liriano have not done the things Buehrle's done. Buehrle's had great first halves early in his career and didn't make it because he didn't have the credentials. He was having a fine season before the Cubs game and has been one of the best lefties in the game for 5 years.

I still think Liriano deserves to be there because his numbers are incredible, and Schilling and Mussina have, like Buehrle, proven they're a star, but I'm sick of these arguments about the first half of the season: "Look--Joe Crede's hitting above .300 for the first time in his career...over 80 games and Troy Glaus is only hitting .240 over 80 games. Joe's 100 times better!!"

I'm not Buehrle deserves to be there or Joe doesn't, but let's stop bitching about all-star game picks. It's an archaic farce of a system and you're spending too much time worrying about it.

fquaye149
07-03-2006, 07:49 PM
Who wants great defense, good hitting and ice water veins?


Not me, that's for sure! A-rod! A-rod! A-rod!

So what you're saying is A-rod doesn't play great defense? Nor is a good hitter?

Wait, what exactly are you saying?

Oh, it's that tired, nonsensical claim that A-rod isn't clutch.

Let me explain something to you: A-rod's average in the playoffs has been just fine. Is he as clutch as Crede? No, very few players are. But he's still the best hitter in the game not named Albert.

FedEx227
07-04-2006, 12:02 AM
****ING CHRIST!. How hard is this to understand. It's not the "Having a good first half of the season game."

Actually it is... how else do you explain Alex Rios being in the game? Of course it's people who have had a great first half of the season.

Sox-o-matic
07-04-2006, 02:34 AM
****ING CHRIST!. How hard is this to understand. It's not the "Having a good first half of the season game." Verlander have not done the things Buehrle's done.

I'm not Buehrle deserves to be there or Joe doesn't, but let's stop bitching about all-star game picks. It's an archaic farce of a system and you're spending too much time worrying about it.

Huh? Verlander, Robertson and Liriano have won games and put their teams into contention when prior to the start of the season it looked like the Sox were going to run away with this division early. What more has Buehrle done in this season that those other guys haven't?

Being an AS game participant is supposed to be an honor given to players who are having the best first halves in the league at their respective positions. It is not supposed to be some kind of lifetime achievement award or popularity contest, but it often works out looking that way.

Every single year certain players are snubbed for whatever reason and some other player who may not be quite as deserving is selected instead. This creates discussion, and since this is a discussion board, some of those discussions take place here. If you don't want to participate in them then don't type anything.

Maybe you're worrying about it too much.

Sox-o-matic
07-04-2006, 02:45 AM
So what you're saying is A-rod doesn't play great defense? Nor is a good hitter?

Wait, what exactly are you saying?

Oh, it's that tired, nonsensical claim that A-rod isn't clutch.

Let me explain something to you: A-rod's average in the playoffs has been just fine. Is he as clutch as Crede? No, very few players are. But he's still the best hitter in the game not named Albert.

ARod:
.285 AVG, 19 HR, 64 RBI, .394 OBP, .522 SLG

Crede:
.300 AVG, 16 HR, 57 RBI, .333 OBP, .529 SLG

Considering where ARod hits in the Yankees batting order vs. Joe's placement in the Sox order, the two are pretty close offensively. Defensively I'd take Joe though.

It's funny because you hear so much coming out of NY about how the fans are so quick to turn on ARod, but then they run to the polls (or computers) to vote in a Yankee without considering the competition.

Babe The Blue Ox
07-04-2006, 03:03 AM
[quote=Sox-o-matic]Being an AS game participant is supposed to be an honor given to players who are having the best first halves in the league at their respective positions. [quote]

Don't players typically have contract clauses that entitle them to 25 - 50k bonuses for making the ASG roster? I would say that some extra cash/the ability to parlay participating in the ASG into higher salary probably goes a lot farther than whatever honor they get out of it. These guys are professional atheletes, not Nobel Peace Prize laureates.

fquaye149
07-04-2006, 06:40 AM
Huh? Verlander, Robertson and Liriano have won games and put their teams into contention when prior to the start of the season it looked like the Sox were going to run away with this division early. What more has Buehrle done in this season that those other guys haven't?

Being an AS game participant is supposed to be an honor given to players who are having the best first halves in the league at their respective positions. It is not supposed to be some kind of lifetime achievement award or popularity contest, but it often works out looking that way.

Every single year certain players are snubbed for whatever reason and some other player who may not be quite as deserving is selected instead. This creates discussion, and since this is a discussion board, some of those discussions take place here. If you don't want to participate in them then don't type anything.

Maybe you're worrying about it too much.

LOL. Maybe you should read more carefully. I'm not saying who should or shouldn't make it. What I'm saying is this is the way all-star game selections work. When's the last time a rookie was even selected (Ichiro doesn't count b/c he was voted in).

Bitching nor logic won't change the fact that players and managers don't vote rookies in.

fquaye149
07-04-2006, 06:42 AM
ARod:
.285 AVG, 19 HR, 64 RBI, .394 OBP, .522 SLG

Crede:
.300 AVG, 16 HR, 57 RBI, .333 OBP, .529 SLG

Considering where ARod hits in the Yankees batting order vs. Joe's placement in the Sox order, the two are pretty close offensively. Defensively I'd take Joe though.

It's funny because you hear so much coming out of NY about how the fans are so quick to turn on ARod, but then they run to the polls (or computers) to vote in a Yankee without considering the competition.

Yes. Crede is having a great half season. A-rod is having a below average half season. Now let's compare career averages and career totals.

You've got to be kidding me, don't you? I love Joe and am ecstatic he's hitting well in addition to his stellar defense, but to act like he's better than A-rod b/c he's had a great three months is the kind of thing ESPN would do.

Dan H
07-04-2006, 07:38 AM
You can only pick so many White Sox players, but Crede deserved to go more than Buehrle this year.

I agree with this, but I am not going to cry if Crede doesn't go. There will be plenty of years when he will go. The White Sox are more than well-represented, and right now I am much more concerned about catching and staying ahead of Detroit than worrying about who is on the All-Star team. I know the All-Star determines World Series home field, but you have to get to the Series first. I rather have some players taking a few days off.

HerzogVon
07-04-2006, 07:49 AM
Yes. Crede is having a great half season. A-rod is having a below average half season. Now let's compare career averages and career totals.

You've got to be kidding me, don't you? I love Joe and am ecstatic he's hitting well in addition to his stellar defense, but to act like he's better than A-rod b/c he's had a great three months is the kind of thing ESPN would do.

No, ESPN would not do that because Crede plays for the White Sox and Axel-Rod...well, you know.


Is it paranoia to duck when the bullets are whistling past your ears?

Sox-o-matic
07-04-2006, 10:08 AM
Yes. Crede is having a great half season. A-rod is having a below average half season. Now let's compare career averages and career totals.

You've got to be kidding me, don't you? I love Joe and am ecstatic he's hitting well in addition to his stellar defense, but to act like he's better than A-rod b/c he's had a great three months is the kind of thing ESPN would do.

Hey, I'm not saying Crede is better than ARod at all. All I'm saying is that offensively they are pretty comparable this season, and as far as this season's allstar game goes, this season's stats are all that matter.

Also, if career numbers are supposed to be the deciding factor, then how come this years game isn't Randy Johnson vs. Roger Clemens? Probably because that game would be 7-6 by the end of the second inning.

IMO, everything that we used to know and love about the allstar game changed when it started to mean something. Now, I think you have to go with the players that are hottest and having the best seasons both at the plate and on the field when you put your team together. Granted, the system is flawed since the fans don't vote for the best players and even the players themselves don't always do that either, but I think the manager has to do the best he can. If I'm Ozzie, I take Crede. Jeter plays one out at SS then ARod moves there, opening up the spot for Joe for the rest of the game. Glaus could pinch hit after the game is already basically over.

fquaye149
07-04-2006, 10:11 AM
Hey, I'm not saying Crede is better than ARod at all. All I'm saying is that offensively they are pretty comparable this season, and as far as this season's allstar game goes, this season's stats are all that matter.

Also, if career numbers are supposed to be the deciding factor, then how come this years game isn't Randy Johnson vs. Roger Clemens? Probably because that game would be 7-6 by the end of the second inning.

IMO, everything that we used to know and love about the allstar game changed when it started to mean something. Now, I think you have to go with the players that are hottest and having the best seasons both at the plate and on the field when you put your team together. Granted, the system is flawed since the fans don't vote for the best players and even the players themselves don't always do that either, but I think the manager has to do the best he can. If I'm Ozzie, I take Crede. Jeter plays one out at SS then ARod moves there, opening up the spot for Joe for the rest of the game. Glaus could pinch hit after the game is already basically over.


I don't even necessarily disagree with you (although by your logic you would be upset if Kenny traded Crede for A-rod straight up with the Yankees eating the salary difference) but it's simply not the way the all-star game selections have worked for years (see: Cal Ripken Jr). I guarantee if Clemens or Johnson had been pitching even reasonably well (See: 3.50 ERA, w/l record around 7-3) they would have made the team. They aren't so they didn't.

Sox-o-matic
07-04-2006, 10:14 AM
[quote=Sox-o-matic]Being an AS game participant is supposed to be an honor given to players who are having the best first halves in the league at their respective positions. [quote]

Don't players typically have contract clauses that entitle them to 25 - 50k bonuses for making the ASG roster? I would say that some extra cash/the ability to parlay participating in the ASG into higher salary probably goes a lot farther than whatever honor they get out of it. These guys are professional atheletes, not Nobel Peace Prize laureates.

I'm no multi-millionaire, but I would imagine an extra few thousand doesn't mean jack **** to guys making millions every year. Even the league minimum is over $300,000 per year.

To put it in perspective, an employee of the month award at the office looks a lot better on your resume than the free pizza that comes with it does in your stomach.

Sox-o-matic
07-04-2006, 10:24 AM
I don't even necessarily disagree with you (although by your logic you would be upset if Kenny traded Crede for A-rod straight up with the Yankees eating the salary difference) but it's simply not the way the all-star game selections have worked for years (see: Cal Ripken Jr). I guarantee if Clemens or Johnson had been pitching even reasonably well (See: 3.50 ERA, w/l record around 7-3) they would have made the team. They aren't so they didn't.

I agree that if Clemens had been pitching all year with good numbers and Johnson had done the same they would both probably be on the team, but that's still not how it should be.

If MLB wants a sideshow they should pay more attention to performance enhancing drugs. If instead they want the best, most competitive game possible they should pay more attention to the players on the field.

fquaye149
07-04-2006, 03:40 PM
I agree that if Clemens had been pitching all year with good numbers and Johnson had done the same they would both probably be on the team, but that's still not how it should be.

If MLB wants a sideshow they should pay more attention to performance enhancing drugs. If instead they want the best, most competitive game possible they should pay more attention to the players on the field.

Well look: Should be, Shmould be. Why do I say that? Simple. If you want to start talking about how it should be you have to start by deciding SHOULD THE FANS VOTE?

There are two schools of thought:

1.) The fans are generally morons/homers. Therefore bigname players from big markets will always make it no matter how deserving.

2.) the opinion stated in #1 is correct, but this is ok since the all-star game is an exhibition meant to entertain the fans and the fans have a right to see who they want to see

If you think #1 outweighs #2, that is, that the fans would rather see a hard fought game between the "most deserving" first half performances, then we need to do away with a fan vote. Period.

If you think the fan vote is ok, then keep in mind that fans don't really want to see flash in the pan rookies because they realize that for every ichiro and pujols there are plenty of rookie sensations who flopped. I mean, how excited can you get about pat listach or angel berroa for chrissakes.

I think the fan vote should go, apparently so do you. however it's not going anywhere and that's too bad, for sure, but we all need to stop complaining and accept the ASG for what it is: a sideshow.

Sxy Mofo
07-05-2006, 10:35 AM
So what you're saying is A-rod doesn't play great defense? Nor is a good hitter?

Wait, what exactly are you saying?

Oh, it's that tired, nonsensical claim that A-rod isn't clutch.

Let me explain something to you: A-rod's average in the playoffs has been just fine. Is he as clutch as Crede? No, very few players are. But he's still the best hitter in the game not named Albert.


Nonsensical? Have you seen that stat about a-rod hitting somewhere around the mendoza line when the game's within 2 or 3 runs later in the game? I'm sure if you surfed some bosox's fansites you'd find it, but I don't want to.

A-rod = P. Manning. I'm sorry...

Someone else posted the numbers, they're very similar, and when you add in crede's clutchness, and the fact that he hasn't been there before, why not go crede?

Is a-rod good? sure... is he worth the money? hmmm. Is crede good? this year he's finally hitting consistent average and has always been clutch.


And finally, when you look at strict numbers so far this year, taking into account where they hit in the batting order, their salaries (25 mil to whatever joe's making, which means you can pay for a couple pitchers, which we all should know is more important than hitters), and the whole clutch factor... would I trade joe straight up for a-rod? I'm going to be called a homer for this, but I say no.

Sxy Mofo
07-05-2006, 10:37 AM
we all need to stop complaining and accept the ASG for what it is: a sideshow.


a farce.


And if there's no room for complaining, what's the point of a message board, other than to celebrate a championship? (which would be great if that's all we did, but that's not reality)... because if you dont' win a championship, there's something to complain about (or if you don't like those words, "fix").

PennStater98r
07-05-2006, 10:56 AM
All doesn't matter now anyway - with Manny sitting out - Joe is in.

ilsox7
07-05-2006, 10:57 AM
All doesn't matter now anyway - with Manny sitting out - Joe is in.

Not according to Ozzie. It's Ordonez.

PennStater98r
07-05-2006, 11:19 AM
Not according to Ozzie. It's Ordonez.

I swear - Ozzie is a walking contradiction. 3 days ago, he said that - no matter who is decides to sit out - regardless of postion - Crede is going.

That's what drives me nuts about Ozzie. Thanks for the championship, but how about saying something for once and sticking with it - or not changing what you say every other day?

fquaye149
07-05-2006, 06:10 PM
Nonsensical? Have you seen that stat about a-rod hitting somewhere around the mendoza line when the game's within 2 or 3 runs later in the game? I'm sure if you surfed some bosox's fansites you'd find it, but I don't want to.

A-rod = P. Manning. I'm sorry...

And have you seen his postseason numbers? Here, I won't even pull a "you" and say "well I know they're out there somewhere so just take my word they exist. Look-- http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml. I'll highlight it for you: Yes, he tanked in the 2005 DS and 2004 CS, but he hasn't hit below .300 in a series besides that (except of course in 1995 vs NY when he was 0 for 1 in the series). Let's see:

2004 ALDS v. Minnesota--4 games, 19 AB, .421 AVG, 1 HR 3 2B
2000 ALCS v. NYY--6 games, 22 AB, .409 AVG 2 HR, 2 2B
2000 ALDS v. White Sox--3 games, 13 AB .308 AVG, 0 Hr, 0 2B
1997 ALDS v. Baltimore-4 games, .312 AVG, 1 HR, 1 2B

Total postseason line? 31 G, 118 AB, .305/.393/.534, 9 2B, 6 HR, 16 RBI

Not exactly a choker. Of course you're going to tell me he always gets his hits when the game is out of reach and never produces when the game is on the line. Ok, fine. I can't tell you you're wrong (except cite actual clutch home runs/base hits he's had...but honestly, I don't feel like getting into that, since it's largely anecdotal


Is a-rod good? sure... is he worth the money? hmmm. Is crede good? this year he's finally hitting consistent average and has always been clutch.


And finally, when you look at strict numbers so far this year, taking into account where they hit in the batting order, their salaries (25 mil to whatever joe's making, which means you can pay for a couple pitchers, which we all should know is more important than hitters), and the whole clutch factor... would I trade joe straight up for a-rod? I'm going to be called a homer for this, but I say no.

I have never said I would like to trade Crede for A-rod awith the current salary structures. I wouldn't, that's insane, since the increased production doesn't justifty 7+million a year difference. But if you're saying that all things considered, you wouldn't rather have A-rod than Crede with money not considered, I'm a little suspicious of your sanity.

Whatever...all I'm saying is there's greater injustices in the world than that a zero time all-star like Crede (who is certainly deserving) is hitting a few points better than one of the greatest hitters ever to play the game and the future hall-of-famer makes it instead of the zero time all-star

fquaye149
07-05-2006, 06:13 PM
a farce.


And if there's no room for complaining, what's the point of a message board, other than to celebrate a championship? (which would be great if that's all we did, but that's not reality)... because if you dont' win a championship, there's something to complain about (or if you don't like those words, "fix").

Sure...I just think bitching about the all-star game, something that will not likely change and really doesn't matter (oh wait--it does matter now!) is even more silly than the people who are thinking about calling up car dealerships and saying they're going to boycott them until either they pull their ads from the sun-times or the sun-times fires mariotti.

It's not going to change...

we can all see how it should change, it's just not going to change.

think about it--the first time they took the votes away from the fans it was because a bunch of Cincinnati fans stuffed the ballot box and elected a team full of Reds. MLB thought this was a travesty so they made it a players vote for a while. Now we get this every year: The most deserving players don't matter, the ones whose fans stuff the ballot box make it.

It's bull****, but it isn't going to change.

Dan Mega
07-05-2006, 08:11 PM
I swear - Ozzie is a walking contradiction. 3 days ago, he said that - no matter who is decides to sit out - regardless of postion - Crede is going.

That's what drives me nuts about Ozzie. Thanks for the championship, but how about saying something for once and sticking with it - or not changing what you say every other day?
3 days ago, Crede didn't have a hurt arm....

StockdaleForVeep
07-05-2006, 08:55 PM
Joe is my favorite Sox 3B since Robin Ventura and I do think he deserves a spot in the ASG but what are ya gonna do ya know :[

.....and who was your fave 3b before ventura?

aryzner
07-05-2006, 09:48 PM
.....and who was your fave 3b before ventura?Can't say I really had one. Most of my earliest memories of the White Sox are when Robin Ventura was playing 3B, and he first started playing in what.. 89 or 90?

So for the 1989 season I would have been 5 years old. It's hard to have a personal favorite player before that when I didn't really get to see any White Sox players before that play the game. But ever since I saw Robin hit that walk off grand slam in 1991, I loved that guy, and I was 7 when that happened.

StockdaleForVeep
07-05-2006, 10:27 PM
Can't say I really had one. Most of my earliest memories of the White Sox are when Robin Ventura was playing 3B, and he first started playing in what.. 89 or 90?

So for the 1989 season I would have been 5 years old. It's hard to have a personal favorite player before that when I didn't really get to see any White Sox players before that play the game. But ever since I saw Robin hit that walk off grand slam in 1991, I loved that guy, and I was 7 when that happened.

Simply stating cuz it was an annoyance of me, if robin has been the only 3b u seen and one of 4 sox 3B in your lifetime. So unless you wanna call greg norton a stellar 3b, there have been no other notable sox 3b

soxwon
07-05-2006, 10:50 PM
Did iguchi make it as a alternate?
where are the players selections?
link please.

Sxy Mofo
07-06-2006, 09:55 AM
And have you seen his postseason numbers? Here, I won't even pull a "you" and say "well I know they're out there somewhere so just take my word they exist. Look-- http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml. I'll highlight it for you: Yes, he tanked in the 2005 DS and 2004 CS, but he hasn't hit below .300 in a series besides that (except of course in 1995 vs NY when he was 0 for 1 in the series). Let's see:

2004 ALDS v. Minnesota--4 games, 19 AB, .421 AVG, 1 HR 3 2B
2000 ALCS v. NYY--6 games, 22 AB, .409 AVG 2 HR, 2 2B
2000 ALDS v. White Sox--3 games, 13 AB .308 AVG, 0 Hr, 0 2B
1997 ALDS v. Baltimore-4 games, .312 AVG, 1 HR, 1 2B

Total postseason line? 31 G, 118 AB, .305/.393/.534, 9 2B, 6 HR, 16 RBI

Not exactly a choker. Of course you're going to tell me he always gets his hits when the game is out of reach and never produces when the game is on the line. Ok, fine. I can't tell you you're wrong (except cite actual clutch home runs/base hits he's had...but honestly, I don't feel like getting into that, since it's largely anecdotal

Ok, so you're giving me one postseason series post 2000 that he did well to tell me that he's clutch? Whereas I'm giving you two series past 2000 where he isn't clutch.

Fine, you want a source? I guess I could've just googled it (it was the first search result after I typed in "a-rod stats when game is close in later innings"), I apologize, apparently the stats weren't that hard to find anyway... http://www.nyyfans.com/article/8535/

Here's part of it:
"A couple of things about A-Rod: There is a statistic called close and late. It measures the batting average in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck.

This year: A-Rod .118/.189/.147
Jeter .387/.513/.516

But, of course, there is no such thing as clutch hitting, right? For the love of Gammons, take a look at A-Rod's numbers, could they possibly be worse if he were a pitcher in the NL?

Hmmm.

As A-Rod's fans will tell you, he was the MVP last year with a strong .321/.421/.610 - pretty impressive.

Of course, in the playoffs against the Angels he hit .133 with no RBIs. But anyone can have a bad playoff series. It's just a small sample size.

Hmmmmm.

Ok, but that great 2005 where A-Rod put together his killer year and beat out David Ortiz for the MVP. He must have had many "clutch" at bats, right?

Does it surprise you that A-Rod won the MVP but was not in the top 10 in the league in either BA close and late, BA with bases loaded, or BA with runners in scoring position? You can look it up."

(Sorry if I posted too much of the article mods, feel free to edit, but it highlights my point).

I have never said I would like to trade Crede for A-rod awith the current salary structures. I wouldn't, that's insane, since the increased production doesn't justifty 7+million a year difference. But if you're saying that all things considered, you wouldn't rather have A-rod than Crede with money not considered, I'm a little suspicious of your sanity.

Whatever...all I'm saying is there's greater injustices in the world than that a zero time all-star like Crede (who is certainly deserving) is hitting a few points better than one of the greatest hitters ever to play the game and the future hall-of-famer makes it instead of the zero time all-star

All things considered (minus money), you want a guy who chokes with the game on the line, but is lights out in a blow out? Cool, you take him... and we're talking comparable defense, and numbers this year (especially considering batting order spot), and one guy who is money, and one guy who costs too much money.

Sxy Mofo
07-06-2006, 10:29 AM
The most deserving players don't matter, the ones whose fans stuff the ballot box make it.

It's bull****, but it isn't going to change.



Ha, well, at least we're on the good side of the fans stuffing the ballot box.

Go AJ.

fquaye149
07-06-2006, 06:03 PM
Ok, so you're giving me one postseason series post 2000 that he did well to tell me that he's clutch? Whereas I'm giving you two series past 2000 where he isn't clutch.

Fine, you want a source? I guess I could've just googled it (it was the first search result after I typed in "a-rod stats when game is close in later innings"), I apologize, apparently the stats weren't that hard to find anyway... http://www.nyyfans.com/article/8535/

Here's part of it:
"A couple of things about A-Rod: There is a statistic called close and late. It measures the batting average in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck.

This year: A-Rod .118/.189/.147
Jeter .387/.513/.516

But, of course, there is no such thing as clutch hitting, right? For the love of Gammons, take a look at A-Rod's numbers, could they possibly be worse if he were a pitcher in the NL?

Hmmm.

As A-Rod's fans will tell you, he was the MVP last year with a strong .321/.421/.610 - pretty impressive.

Of course, in the playoffs against the Angels he hit .133 with no RBIs. But anyone can have a bad playoff series. It's just a small sample size.

Hmmmmm.

Ok, but that great 2005 where A-Rod put together his killer year and beat out David Ortiz for the MVP. He must have had many "clutch" at bats, right?

Does it surprise you that A-Rod won the MVP but was not in the top 10 in the league in either BA close and late, BA with bases loaded, or BA with runners in scoring position? You can look it up."

(Sorry if I posted too much of the article mods, feel free to edit, but it highlights my point).



All things considered (minus money), you want a guy who chokes with the game on the line, but is lights out in a blow out? Cool, you take him... and we're talking comparable defense, and numbers this year (especially considering batting order spot), and one guy who is money, and one guy who costs too much money.

So you give me his "close and late" stats from this year and that proves he's not clutch? Or was it two playoff series that account for...wait... a lot less than half of his career playoff games (one of which he actually hit .250 in, which isn't exactly CHOKING)? IIRC, Frank Thomas had a lousy playoff series in 2000. Does that mean he is UNCLUTCH?

Or how about Ted Williams, who positively flopped in his only playoff series? I suppose you'd rather have Joe Carter than Teddy Baseball because of that walkoff?

I'm sorry...I don't buy the A-rod isn't clutch argument, and the blog FireJoe Morgan posted a pretty solid refutation to this stance, but this time it's going to be me who doesn't bother to find it.

Sxy Mofo
07-06-2006, 06:18 PM
So you give me his "close and late" stats from this year and that proves he's not clutch? Or was it two playoff series that account for...wait... a lot less than half of his career playoff games (one of which he actually hit .250 in, which isn't exactly CHOKING)? IIRC, Frank Thomas had a lousy playoff series in 2000. Does that mean he is UNCLUTCH?

Or how about Ted Williams, who positively flopped in his only playoff series? I suppose you'd rather have Joe Carter than Teddy Baseball because of that walkoff?

I'm sorry...I don't buy the A-rod isn't clutch argument, and the blog FireJoe Morgan posted a pretty solid refutation to this stance, but this time it's going to be me who doesn't bother to find it.
I think, more from the last two years, and I don't feel like looking at the stats any further. It's really easy to argue that recently... a-rod isn't clutch.

Pressure isn't some made up thing... some guys do well in it, some guys don't.

Going by pure stats this year, it's a hard sell for me to include a-rod over joe. (but since when are all star selections based on how you do in the first part of the year? they're based on first half and reputation). Does that mean the stats won't change or a-rod will somehow learn to handle the pressure? Sure, he could, who knows... they said the same thing about john elway and phil mickelson.

esbrechtel
07-06-2006, 06:26 PM
i just wanted joe to make it.....i think hes come a long way and deserves some recognition...he easily could have been the WSMVP....he just always seems to be below the radar and i think he deserves a little recognition...

Mohoney
07-07-2006, 01:24 PM
[quote=Babe The Blue Ox][quote=Sox-o-matic]Being an AS game participant is supposed to be an honor given to players who are having the best first halves in the league at their respective positions.

I'm no multi-millionaire, but I would imagine an extra few thousand doesn't mean jack **** to guys making millions every year. Even the league minimum is over $300,000 per year.

To put it in perspective, an employee of the month award at the office looks a lot better on your resume than the free pizza that comes with it does in your stomach.

But there are a few guys on this year's squads that make less than $1 million this year. It's a pretty sizable chunk to those guys, not to mention the mitigating factor that a few All-Star game selections can mean when these younger guys go to arbitration or free agency.

I think that Crede should be there, and I think that a big reason he is not there is because the NL doesn't have a DH. Thome and Ortiz are both listed at 1B, making Paulie (who deserves to be there in his own right anyway) an absolute necessity.