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DrCrawdad
02-10-2002, 09:14 PM
Did the Sox lose a draft pick to the Indians by signing Lofton?

What about Alomar?

kermittheefrog
02-10-2002, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Did the Sox lose a draft pick to the Indians by signing Lofton?

What about Alomar?

Sox lost nothing by signing Lofton, they lost their first round pick last year for signing Alomar.

Huisj
02-10-2002, 09:25 PM
Wait, they lost their first round pick last year for signing Alomar? I thought they drafted Honel in the first round. Or do you mean that they don't have a first round pick in the upcoming draft as a result of signing alomar?

DrCrawdad
02-10-2002, 09:32 PM
Kermit, that sounds right to me. I seem to remember hearing that the sox lost a draft pick for signing Alomar, but I didn't hear about losing any draft picks for signing Lofton.

From what I recall, Lofton was not offered arbitration. Lofton finished 01 on the last year of his contract with an option which the Indians didn't pick-up (I think it was in the 6-9 million for one year). And by not picking up the option for 02 Lofton became a FA. Similiar to David Wells situation with the Sox. Well that's my understanding.


In another forum a person said this:

"Yes, we have lost something.

"By signing Lofton the Sox gave the Indians their first round draft pick this
year. That means that the Sox traded Lofton for the 17th (or so) best amateur player in the country. Oh, by the way, because we signed Lofton the Indians also get an extra pick between the first and second rounds of the June draft. (The Indians also got a sandwich pick last year because the Sox signed the rotting carcass of Sandy Alomar). That makes three great young baseball players for two has beens.

"Don't think that such things matter? Would you trade Borchard for Lofton?
(Actually, Borchard was taken a little higher than #17. He was #7 or so, if I
recall). But would you have traded Rauch, he was like #97? What about Ginter? Wright? Fogg or Kip Wells? Heck, would you have given up anyone for the right to pay Lofton a million and a half bucks a year? Seriously, would you? Kenny Williams didn't give up just anyone for Lofton he gave up one of the twenty best young players in the country. Does that sound like a good idea to you? To anyone?"

RedPinStripes
02-10-2002, 09:41 PM
We gave up a first round pick for alaomar???? ***???? We got the wrong Alomar in that case. Sandy is worth **** in my book. I never liked the signing. Now I hate it.

czalgosz
02-10-2002, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
We gave up a first round pick for alaomar???? ***???? We got the wrong Alomar in that case. Sandy is worth **** in my book. I never liked the signing. Now I hate it.

I'm not quite sure it works that way... I don't think it's a furst round pick that the Sox give up. As I remember it, the Indians get a sandwich pick, in between the first and second round, as compensation for losing Alomar and Lofton. The Sox don't lose anything.

Daver
02-10-2002, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I'm not quite sure it works that way... I don't think it's a furst round pick that the Sox give up. As I remember it, the Indians get a sandwich pick, in between the first and second round, as compensation for losing Alomar and Lofton. The Sox don't lose anything.

The Indians get a sandwich pick for Alomar in this years draft,they will get nothing for Lofton,as they declined to offer him arbutration.

czalgosz
02-10-2002, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by daver


The Indians get a sandwich pick for Alomar in this years draft,they will get nothing for Lofton,as they declined to offer him arbutration.

Thank you! I just remembered that the Tribe didn't offer Lofton arbitration, and I knew that had something to do with the compensation process.

Daver
02-10-2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Thank you! I just remembered that the Tribe didn't offer Lofton arbitration, and I knew that had something to do with the compensation process.

You are very welcome.Just trying to do my part.

kermittheefrog
02-10-2002, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
Wait, they lost their first round pick last year for signing Alomar? I thought they drafted Honel in the first round. Or do you mean that they don't have a first round pick in the upcoming draft as a result of signing alomar?

We took Honel with the Marlin's first round pick, which we got because they sigend CJ. Since the Tribe didn't offer Lofton arbitration we didn't give up a pick to get him. The Sox were crazy to sign Alomar and give up a first round pick.

WinningUgly!
02-10-2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


We took Honel with the Marlin's first round pick, which we got because they sigend CJ. Since the Tribe didn't offer Lofton arbitration we didn't give up a pick to get him. The Sox were crazy to sign Alomar and give up a first round pick.

They got caught with their pants down by not resigning CJ. Going into last year with just Paul & MJ had eveybody scared & they fell right into the Tribe's trap.

SoxRulecubsdrool
02-10-2002, 10:16 PM
:wanne Ahhhh!! We felt good about that move. Ahhh! :gulp:

doublem23
02-10-2002, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Sox lost nothing by signing Lofton, they lost their first round pick last year for signing Alomar.

I thought we lose a sandwich round (between 1st and 2nd) pick...

Didn't we draft Honel in the 1st round

EDIT: Yes! Good thing I'm about 5 hours behind this conversation!

Vsahajpal
02-10-2002, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


I thought we lose a sandwich round (between 1st and 2nd) pick...

Didn't we draft Honel in the 1st round

EDIT: Yes! Good thing I'm about 5 hours behind this conversation!

The White Sox arbed CJ, got the 16th pick from Florida and a supplemental selection (#39 overall, Wyatt Allen).

They lost the #27 pick for signing Alomar.

The Sox will not lose a pick this year, nor did they lose a sandwich round pick, because teams are only alloted those by MLB.

doublem23
02-10-2002, 11:04 PM
Ahh... I see.

Thanks for the info, Vic. :smile:

Vsahajpal
02-10-2002, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad

In another forum a person said this:

"Yes, we have lost something.

"By signing Lofton the Sox gave the Indians their first round draft pick this
year. That means that the Sox traded Lofton for the 17th (or so) best amateur player in the country. Oh, by the way, because we signed Lofton the Indians also get an extra pick between the first and second rounds of the June draft. (The Indians also got a sandwich pick last year because the Sox signed the rotting carcass of Sandy Alomar). That makes three great young baseball players for two has beens.

"Don't think that such things matter? Would you trade Borchard for Lofton?
(Actually, Borchard was taken a little higher than #17. He was #7 or so, if I
recall). But would you have traded Rauch, he was like #97? What about Ginter? Wright? Fogg or Kip Wells? Heck, would you have given up anyone for the right to pay Lofton a million and a half bucks a year? Seriously, would you? Kenny Williams didn't give up just anyone for Lofton he gave up one of the twenty best young players in the country. Does that sound like a good idea to you? To anyone?"

Sounds like a Cub fan. Borchard was 12th overall, signability concerns. But anyways, Lofton was never arbed, so the Indians get nothing. The A's and Cubs are the two primary teams who will benefit the most as a result of free agent compensation, although the A's had to forfeit Giambi, Damon, and Isringhausen, and the Cubs lost RonDL, Weathers, and Van Poppel. Nonetheless, they'll both have a lot of top 50 picks; the A's and Billy Beane have 7 of the top 40 picks! Too bad Grady Fuson went to Texas...

Vsahajpal
02-10-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Ahh... I see.

Thanks for the info, Vic. :smile:

no problem...


stop listening to Lincoln Park :D:

doublem23
02-10-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
stop listening to Lincoln Park :D:

Wow.. Nice usage of ESP, there! :D:

(btw, Linkin Park.)

Vsahajpal
02-10-2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Wow.. Nice usage of ESP, there! :D:

(btw, Linkin Park.)

I know, I prefer Lincoln(sic) Park.

This thread takes me back to 1999 when the CWS were aboslutely loaded with high end draft choices. I wish they'd have drafted Hank Blalock (who fell to round 3) instead of some of these pitchers (namely Rob Purvis, #!&*!)

let's see, 7 of the first 100 picks.

15. Stumm, Jason rhp Centralia (HS) Washington
22. Ginter, Matt rhp, Mississippi State U.
35. Brian West, rhp, West Monroe (HS) Louisiana
45. Rob Purvis, rhp, Bradley U.
64. Danny Wright, rhp, U. of Arkansas
66. Bobby Hill, ss, U. of Miami
99. Jon Rauch, rhp, Morehead State U.

MisterB
02-10-2002, 11:26 PM
Here's a quick look at Free Agent Compensation:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20011213daily.html

LongDistanceFan
02-11-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


Sounds like a Cub fan. Borchard was 12th overall, signability concerns. But anyways, Lofton was never arbed, so the Indians get nothing. The A's and Cubs are the two primary teams who will benefit the most as a result of free agent compensation, although the A's had to forfeit Giambi, Damon, and Isringhausen, and the Cubs lost Alou, Weathers, and Van Poppel. Nonetheless, they'll both have a lot of top 50 picks; the A's and Billy Beane have 7 of the top 40 picks! Too bad Grady Fuson went to Texas... damn the sCrubs, they seem to be getting better with an array of outstanding draft picks and FA's........ its only going to be a matter of time, before they will be the better team in Chi.

FarWestChicago
02-11-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
damn the sCrubs, they seem to be getting better with an array of outstanding draft picks and FA's........ its only going to be a matter of time, before they will be the better team in Chi. Whoa!! An LDF sighting!!

Don't worry, they will mess it up. They are the Scrubs. :smile:

voodoochile
02-11-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
damn the sCrubs, they seem to be getting better with an array of outstanding draft picks and FA's........ its only going to be a matter of time, before they will be the better team in Chi.

You forgot the teal... what's happening LDF? Man, long time no talk... Welcome back...

Randar68
02-11-2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


I know, I prefer Lincoln(sic) Park.

This thread takes me back to 1999 when the CWS were aboslutely loaded with high end draft choices. I wish they'd have drafted Hank Blalock (who fell to round 3) instead of some of these pitchers (namely Rob Purvis, #!&*!)

let's see, 7 of the first 100 picks.

15. Stumm, Jason rhp Centralia (HS) Washington
22. Ginter, Matt rhp, Mississippi State U.
35. Brian West, rhp, West Monroe (HS) Louisiana
45. Rob Purvis, rhp, Bradley U.
64. Danny Wright, rhp, U. of Arkansas
66. Bobby Hill, ss, U. of Miami
99. Jon Rauch, rhp, Morehead State U.

Hindsight is 20/20, but look back to 1997, i believe and tell me who was drafted right after Jason Dellaero?

I'll save you the pain, 1 spot behind Dellaero, the Astros picked Lance Berkman....OUCH!

In the early 1999 draft, there were a few names that I would have loved to have seen the Sox pick over the young arms they got. Carl Crawford and Brandon Phillips were both picked early in the second round, after the Sox had already picked Stumm, Ginter, West and Purvis. Picked shortly after Stumm and Ginter were Kurt Ainsworth and Jeff Heaverlo...

Overall, though, The Sox did a pretty outstanding job in that draft getting Rauch, Malone and Ulacia out of that draft in addition to the above mentioned guys. If only they had signed Hill, that would have been one hell of a draft class!!!!!

Vsahajpal
02-11-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Hindsight is 20/20, but look back to 1997, i believe and tell me who was drafted right after Jason Dellaero?

I'll save you the pain, 1 spot behind Dellaero, the Astros picked Lance Berkman....OUCH!

In the early 1999 draft, there were a few names that I would have loved to have seen the Sox pick over the young arms they got. Carl Crawford and Brandon Phillips were both picked early in the second round, after the Sox had already picked Stumm, Ginter, West and Purvis. Picked shortly after Stumm and Ginter were Kurt Ainsworth and Jeff Heaverlo...

Overall, though, The Sox did a pretty outstanding job in that draft getting Rauch, Malone and Ulacia out of that draft in addition to the above mentioned guys. If only they had signed Hill, that would have been one hell of a draft class!!!!!

yeah, you're right, the Cubs drafted Mike Mallory ahead of Rauch and Blalock...stupid hindsight! That 99 CWS draft was just incredible, although I think they drafted too many pitchers early. I know, you can never have too much pitching...but there are 50 rounds.

I'm excited to see Malone at Birmingham this season. It'd be nice to see him battle Prior before they both get promoted.

kermittheefrog
02-11-2002, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Hindsight is 20/20, but look back to 1997, i believe and tell me who was drafted right after Jason Dellaero?



Yeah you really have to remember that with the baseball draft. I'm sure other teams would love to have Rauch or Malone right now. Or Buerhle who was a draft-and-follow taken in the 20-something rounds. Same goes for a two of the Astros big guys, Roy Oswalt and Tim Redding. Us getting Hank Blalock or Lance Berkman? Ha. I think the Sox scouting staff has proven to know their pitchers but are dumb as bricks when it comes to hitters. Please no one "remind me" of Joe Borchard, taking him took about as much scoutting genius as tying your shoes.

Randar68
02-11-2002, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


yeah, you're right, the Cubs drafted Mike Mallory ahead of Rauch and Blalock...stupid hindsight! That 99 CWS draft was just incredible, although I think they drafted too many pitchers early. I know, you can never have too much pitching...but there are 50 rounds.

I'm excited to see Malone at Birmingham this season. It'd be nice to see him battle Prior before they both get promoted.

How long do you think Prior will spend at AA? The Cubs' history of rushing prospects is legendary, but do you think they will be extra careful with Prior because he is so high profile?

It will be good for the Sox, we finally have a depth of Major league ready talent. 1 year from now, how will we fit Wright, Ginter, Rauch, Malone, Ulacia, etc into a staff that will already include Buehrle, Ritchie, Garland, Glover, Parque, etc.? I guess it's a nice problem to have and it will be the first time in years we are not rushing everyone to the big club the second they have success in AA. They need to fix that aweful stadium in Charlotte first...

Vsahajpal
02-11-2002, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


How long do you think Prior will spend at AA? The Cubs' history of rushing prospects is legendary, but do you think they will be extra careful with Prior because he is so high profile?

It will be good for the Sox, we finally have a depth of Major league ready talent. 1 year from now, how will we fit Wright, Ginter, Rauch, Malone, Ulacia, etc into a staff that will already include Buehrle, Ritchie, Garland, Glover, Parque, etc.? I guess it's a nice problem to have and it will be the first time in years we are not rushing everyone to the big club the second they have success in AA. They need to fix that aweful stadium in Charlotte first...

If Prior starts out like say Tankersley, Redding, or Beckett did last year, the Cubs may try and fix that gaping hole in the bottom end of the rotation with him. But I don't think its likely. I hope this dumbass Baylor doesn't fall in love with Jesus Sanchez because he throws with his left hand. The only way Carlos Zambrano gets a fair shake is if he throws lights out at Mesa this Spring.

I think they'll be careful with Prior to an extent. I don't expect to see him before the all-star break unless there's an injury, coupled with absolute dominance of the Southern League by his part.

I like Buehrle and Garland a lot, and Ritchie will be a very solid #3 after this season. Rauch needs to replace Jim Parque; I just don't trust him. What's Malone ETA? Do you think the Sox will give him the opportunity to be a starter as soon as 2003?

Randar68
02-11-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal

I like Buehrle and Garland a lot, and Ritchie will be a very solid #3 after this season. Rauch needs to replace Jim Parque; I just don't trust him. What's Malone ETA? Do you think the Sox will give him the opportunity to be a starter as soon as 2003?

Well, so far, to me, it sounds like KW is going to be extremely Veteran Happy. I think Malone's ETA will be greatly affected by the success or Biddle, Rauch, Wright, Glover, and Parque. If we are getting only 5 innings per start out pf Parque, then they may start elsewhere. From my observations, the Sox are very reluctant to start people out with the big club to start the season, but throwing prospects to the dogs in the middle of the year, no problem!

I think we will see Malone and Rauch each get at least 1 start before the end of the year. I think we will be sufficiently in 1st in the Central Division by the middle of August, and if it doesn't happen before then, both would likely be 40-man additions come time for roster expansions.

As far as a starter's role by 2003, again, if you are starting the season with Buehrle, Garland, Ritchie and Rauch as your top 4, Management might end up looking for an "experienced veteran", as they are so keen to do, to fill the fifth spot. In a system with so many high-end and currently high level prospects, it is going to take some serious time to sort itself out. This year in AA and AAA should give us great indication on who to expect to see in the big leagues come 2003...perhaps more so than usual with the likely high turnover at C, OF, and infield between 2002 and 2003...

kermittheefrog
02-11-2002, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal

I like Buehrle and Garland a lot, and Ritchie will be a very solid #3 after this season. Rauch needs to replace Jim Parque; I just don't trust him. What's Malone ETA? Do you think the Sox will give him the opportunity to be a starter as soon as 2003?

We know how the Sox like to push their lefties. My guess is Malone will see some time in the pen by the end of the year, maybe a start or two and find a spot in the rotaiton next year.