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Lip Man 1
06-27-2006, 01:09 PM
Don't know much about the author but this to me is a pretty interesting column on Ozzie and the past week. It's in the Tuesday edition of the Tribune:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0606260152jun26,1,1775251.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

MarySwiss
06-27-2006, 01:18 PM
Don't know much about the author but this to me is a pretty interesting column on Ozzie and the past week. It's in the Tuesday edition of the Tribune:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0606260152jun26,1,1775251.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

Good column; very well-written and balanced, although he seems not to clearly understand the difference between sportswriters who are reporters and those who are columnists. (And of course there are those who are neither.)

Thanks for the link, Lip.

soxruleEP
06-27-2006, 01:34 PM
If I am not mistaken, he was--or is--a member of the Cubbune Editorial Board.

Fuller_Schettman
06-28-2006, 03:27 AM
I believe he was actually the managing editor for several years.

But, I just stumbled across this article and it is pure brilliance! Truly, it is the definitive word on this entire ugly episode.

It's too bad they buried the lead....

EDIT:

Dennis Byrne (http://dennisbyrne.blogspot.com) is president of his own public relations and public affairs company, Byrne was a regular columnist at the Chicago Sun-Times for 20 years, and now appears as an Op-ed columnist twice weekly. Dennis was also a former Public Relations Director for the Specialty Chemicals Group, editor and reporter for the Chicago Daily News, and a U.S. Naval officer. Byrne is a graduate of Marquette University, and holds an M.S. in Urban Affairs from the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee.

Nellie_Fox
06-28-2006, 03:38 AM
That could not have been better said.

Frater Perdurabo
06-28-2006, 09:36 AM
Actually, I've never understood how sportswriters work anyway. They're blessed by the fact that they've got plenty of drama to describe, right there on the field or court of play.... So, then, why is so much time spent describing the "action" in the locker room? And gathering post-game quotes? As I've said before, if the locker room action was more interesting than the on-field play, then viewers would be clamoring for more TV cameras in the locker rooms.

AMEN!

infohawk
06-28-2006, 09:43 AM
I have to agree that the article was quite brilliant!:D:

Milw
06-28-2006, 10:00 AM
Which brings up a question: Sportswriters unfailingly mention Guillen's penchant for using salty language. But much of that language never appears in print or on the air. So, why publish this one? No, seriously. Why publish one offensive thing and not publish another? Is there a hierarchy-of-insult list that someone keeps? Say "blah" and it gets on the news, but say "blah-blah" and it doesn't?

With this paragraph, he misses the point entirely. Using a derogatory, hateful slur is on a totally different plane than dropping F-bombs or calling someone "stupid." It has a vastly different connotation to it, even if Ozzie didn't mean it that way. Imagine if Ozzie had used the N word to describe someone he thought was "ghetto," even if the target wasn't a black person. Some words you just don't use, no matter what your intent.

Is that overly PC, too "touchy feely?" No. It's called understanding boundaries. Ozzie gets away with a LOT, and that's OK, as long as we hold him accountable when he steps over that line. It seems to me Mr. Byrne would have us call Ozzie out for every little swear or questionable comment, even as he chastizes us for making a big deal about this one.

PorkChopExpress
06-28-2006, 11:11 AM
With this paragraph, he misses the point entirely. Using a derogatory, hateful slur is on a totally different plane than dropping F-bombs or calling someone "stupid." It has a vastly different connotation to it, even if Ozzie didn't mean it that way. Imagine if Ozzie had used the N word to describe someone he thought was "ghetto," even if the target wasn't a black person. Some words you just don't use, no matter what your intent.

Is that overly PC, too "touchy feely?" No. It's called understanding boundaries. Ozzie gets away with a LOT, and that's OK, as long as we hold him accountable when he steps over that line. It seems to me Mr. Byrne would have us call Ozzie out for every little swear or questionable comment, even as he chastizes us for making a big deal about this one.

I respectfully disagree. Like you say, one needs to understand boundaries, but my read of the article seems to say that is exactly the problem. What are the boundaries? Obviously, after hundreds of years of inhumane mistreatment of a race, the N word has become a no-no for most. Hear, Ozzie is beraded for using the other F word that has been used repeatedly on television and radio in recent years, including in such comedy skits as "Wayne's World." People are called homo or gay on the radio almost daily. I believe it was Silvy and Carmen who had the gay horn (and maybe still do) any time someone called in and said something "gay." So why is it OK to call someone gay who is not, but it is not OK to call someone a f**. Who's making the judgment call as to what is offensive and what is not. I do not know if the FCC even has the other F word on its list of words that can't be used on the air. The boundaries are not clear. Ozzie pushed the envelope, intentionally or not, and because of who he is, got the reaction he got. This, to me, is simply media-overhype. I mean come on, the guy went to a Madonna concert!

rookie
06-28-2006, 12:46 PM
I respectfully disagree. Like you say, one needs to understand boundaries, but my read of the article seems to say that is exactly the problem. What are the boundaries? Obviously, after hundreds of years of inhumane mistreatment of a race, the N word has become a no-no for most. Hear, Ozzie is beraded for using the other F word that has been used repeatedly on television and radio in recent years, including in such comedy skits as "Wayne's World." People are called homo or gay on the radio almost daily. I believe it was Silvy and Carmen who had the gay horn (and maybe still do) any time someone called in and said something "gay." So why is it OK to call someone gay who is not, but it is not OK to call someone a f**. Who's making the judgment call as to what is offensive and what is not. I do not know if the FCC even has the other F word on its list of words that can't be used on the air. The boundaries are not clear. Ozzie pushed the envelope, intentionally or not, and because of who he is, got the reaction he got. This, to me, is simply media-overhype. I mean come on, the guy went to a Madonna concert!

I also thought the article was very nicely done. And you stated something very well also. I wish people would stop comparing what Ozzie said with the N-word. They are both alike because they're derogatory words used to insult a person based on who they are, but they do not carry the same weight of inappropriateness in society. Part of the reason people don't say the N-word is that they don't want to invoke the bad history that word brings to mind.

I compare what Ozzie said to people who say the word "retarded." You shouldn't say it, but not everyone in society realizes how taboo it is yet.

Milw
06-28-2006, 01:14 PM
I compare what Ozzie said to people who say the word "retarded." You shouldn't say it, but not everyone in society realizes how taboo it is yet.
I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. When people say "retarded," while it's meant derogatorally, it's generally not meant to be hateful. It's more of a mocking term inappropriate no doubt but it doesn't have the violent, hateful connotation that "***" has.

Perhaps it's not on the same level as the N word. Maybe that word is in a class all its own. But "***" is certainly on the List of Words You Shouldn't Say.

EDIT: The simple fact that the language filter picked it up, I think, makes my point to some extent.

MarySwiss
06-28-2006, 03:24 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. When people say "retarded," while it's meant derogatorally, it's generally not meant to be hateful. It's more of a mocking term inappropriate no doubt but it doesn't have the violent, hateful connotation that "***" has.

Perhaps it's not on the same level as the N word. Maybe that word is in a class all its own. But "***" is certainly on the List of Words You Shouldn't Say.

EDIT: The simple fact that the language filter picked it up, I think, makes my point to some extent.

Unfortunately, I think you're right about "retarded" and "retard." But I wish you weren't.

When I was a teenager, I volunteered at a group home for mentally retarded adults, and as a result, I absolutely hate those terms. The people there were very special.

I also have never thought Jerry Lewis funny because of his frequent portrayal of "simpleminded" characters as the butt of jokes. I don't think there is anything amusing about making fun of or mocking the disabled, no matter what the disability. Society as a whole needs to realize that words and actions such as those are offensive. And it's not a question of being PC; it's about not being hurtful. When you call someone a "retard," how do you know that you're not being overheard by someone who has a sibling or a child who's learning-challenged?

Okay, rant over.

Mercy!
06-28-2006, 08:35 PM
Ah, well, it's clear why this topic interests Dennis Bryne so much. The way he just happens to bring in Rich Garcia's name should be a tip-off. Bryne is usually raving about threats to heterosexual marriage from what he calls "the GayEtc. lobby."