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bigredrudy
06-26-2006, 01:32 PM
Yes it was a great comeback especially in view of the fact that Ozzie had given up. Dye and Crede were removed from the game because Ozzie had given up. Gload did nothing in 3 ABs and Ozuna beat out an infield roller which had no effect on the game. I don't know whether Dye would have caught that pop fly. But I do have to question Ozzie's judgement in giving up. It's obvious that Ozzie does not believe it's not over until it is over.

WizardsofOzzie
06-26-2006, 01:35 PM
:threadblows:

SOXfnNlansing
06-26-2006, 01:37 PM
:?:

itsnotrequired
06-26-2006, 01:40 PM
I hear Ozzie Guillen sleeps nude in an oxygen tent which he believes gives him sexual powers.

:rolleyes:

WizardsofOzzie
06-26-2006, 01:42 PM
I hear Ozzie Guillen sleeps nude in an oxygen tent which he believes gives him sexual powers.

:rolleyes:

No, you're thinking of Chuck Norris

kobo
06-26-2006, 01:46 PM
Yes it was a great comeback especially in view of the fact that Ozzie had given up. Dye and Crede were removed from the game because Ozzie had given up. Gload did nothing in 3 ABs and Ozuna beat out an infield roller which had no effect on the game. I don't know whether Dye would have caught that pop fly. But I do have to question Ozzie's judgement in giving up. It's obvious that Ozzie does not believe it's not over until it is over.
Lay off the :bong: .

Dick Allen
06-26-2006, 01:47 PM
I was at the game, and confess that I left in the middle of the 7th inning when it started to rain. The main reason is, I also thought that Ozzie had given up. Vazquez clearly had nothing, and to leave him in as long as he did, and then bring in minor leaguer Montero when he finally did take him out, indicated to me that Ozzie had basically given up. I hate that, when I spend good $ on tickets. I told my friend in the second inning that if they leave Vasquez in longer than 4 or 5 innings, this game is finished. My mistake was that I should have known that the players wouldn't give up. And no, this thread doesn't blow!!!

oeo
06-26-2006, 01:50 PM
Hasn't everyone on this team shown that they're capable of hitting the ball in these situations? Give me a break, if Dye would have injured himself in the 9th inning and there never was a comeback, you would be calling for Ozzie's head. Ozzie did what most managers do, he took his starters out of the game, big deal. I have confidence that the bench can do a lot of damage, they've shown they can all year.

Steelrod
06-26-2006, 01:52 PM
25 Major league players!
I do not question our World series Champion manager.
Maybe if you let him know you were there, he would have managed differently. I wonder what Oct. would look like if Oz played your 8 favorite for 9 innings of 162 game?
This thread truly blows!

CHISOXFAN13
06-26-2006, 01:54 PM
I was at the game, and confess that I left in the middle of the 7th inning when it started to rain. The main reason is, I also thought that Ozzie had given up. Vazquez clearly had nothing, and to leave him in as long as he did, and then bring in minor leaguer Montero when he finally did take him out, indicated to me that Ozzie had basically given up. I hate that, when I spend good $ on tickets. I told my friend in the second inning that if they leave Vasquez in longer than 4 or 5 innings, this game is finished. My mistake was that I should have known that the players wouldn't give up. And no, this thread doesn't blow!!!

We are a man short because Riske started his suspension. What else was he supposed to do? We needed him to eat innings. The way Oswalt was dealing, we had no chance. Luckily, we got to their bullpen.

WizardsofOzzie
06-26-2006, 01:55 PM
I've said it before and i'll say it again, there should be a rule that you can ban someone for repeatedly saying stupid things like this assclown

cleanwsox
06-26-2006, 01:58 PM
Dang, we lose for the first time in over a week and a half and we still get this garbage about who to blame. Suck it up, no team wins every game.

sullythered
06-26-2006, 02:00 PM
Yes it was a great comeback especially in view of the fact that Ozzie had given up. Dye and Crede were removed from the game because Ozzie had given up. Gload did nothing in 3 ABs and Ozuna beat out an infield roller which had no effect on the game. I don't know whether Dye would have caught that pop fly. But I do have to question Ozzie's judgement in giving up. It's obvious that Ozzie does not believe it's not over until it is over.
Hawk has said it a thousand times. You have to be O.K. with potentially losing some games for the greater good. I guess you think we should go all out and never play anybody off the bench because our starters are more talented. We were down 9 to 1, and we put in some bench guys, just like 100% of the other teams over the last twenty years, at least, have done. This thread is just stupid and pointless.


Oh, Btw...:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:

Dick Allen
06-26-2006, 02:04 PM
We are a man short because Riske started his suspension. What else was he supposed to do? We needed him to eat innings. The way Oswalt was dealing, we had no chance. Luckily, we got to their bullpen.That's certainly a valid point. But today is a day off. And I thought McCarthy, being a hybrid starter, could also have eaten some more innings. It's really frustrating when you see a pitcher who has nothing being kept in the game, with nobody warming up until the 7th inning. I guess Jason Marquis knows the feeling. By the way, I had no problem with some of the reserves getting into the game.

Dan Mega
06-26-2006, 02:08 PM
Putting in Ross Gload wouldn't be giving up. He just didn't make a play that most rightfielders couldn't. He is batting ok for the last guy on the bench and in the last few games he has been in he killed the ball but it went right to someone.

TornLabrum
06-26-2006, 02:09 PM
I've said it before and i'll say it again, there should be a rule that you can ban someone for repeatedly saying stupid things like this assclown

It's happened before. Others have also been banned for telling mods how to do their jobs. Now, you were saying....?

Dan Mega
06-26-2006, 02:09 PM
No, you're thinking of Chuck Norris

A man who can divide by zero doesn't need no stinkin oxygen tent. Blasphemy!

itsnotrequired
06-26-2006, 02:11 PM
It's happened before. Others have also been banned for telling mods how to do their jobs. Now, you were saying....?

First splitting threads in the ****house and now this? These mods are out of control!

:tongue:

PaulDrake
06-26-2006, 02:15 PM
I was at the game, and confess that I left in the middle of the 7th inning when it started to rain. The main reason is, I also thought that Ozzie had given up. Vazquez clearly had nothing, and to leave him in as long as he did, and then bring in minor leaguer Montero when he finally did take him out, indicated to me that Ozzie had basically given up. I hate that, when I spend good $ on tickets. I told my friend in the second inning that if they leave Vasquez in longer than 4 or 5 innings, this game is finished. My mistake was that I should have known that the players wouldn't give up. And no, this thread doesn't blow!!! That is the thing I question the most about Ozzie. Not the off the wall lineups he throws out every now and then, but his handling of pitchers. Leaving Vasquez in cost the Sox a chance to win the game. I'm not so critical of him bringing in Montero as a reliever, Ozzie likes him and he did do well. Nevertheless, Ozzie is not the best game day manager we've ever had. I like his philosophy, and the way he seems to get something extra out of his team when its really needed. I remain not thrilled with some of his game strategy and leaving in Vasquez last night is another example.

DaleJRFan
06-26-2006, 02:17 PM
Putting in Ross Gload wouldn't be giving up. He just didn't make a play that most rightfielders couldn't. He is batting ok for the last guy on the bench and in the last few games he has been in he killed the ball but it went right to someone.

I agree on this one... I got really tired of all the "Ross Gload sucks" posts in the game thread and postgame thread. There are not a lot of right fielders who could have made that play. Ross almost caught the damn ball and he isn't even a right fielder! The few times Ozzie has stuck him out there, he has done the job and looked good doing it. He's made all the plays and throws.

As for giving up... the score was 9-2. What was Ozzie supposed to do? The bullpen was short handed, Some guys needed some innings (Gload, Ozuna, etc). Again, what was Ozzie supposed to do, treat the situation as if it was game 7 of the world series? Its June 25th for cryin out loud. 9 outa 10 ain't so bad.

bigredrudy
06-26-2006, 02:19 PM
I was at the game, and confess that I left in the middle of the 7th inning when it started to rain. The main reason is, I also thought that Ozzie had given up. Vazquez clearly had nothing, and to leave him in as long as he did, and then bring in minor leaguer Montero when he finally did take him out, indicated to me that Ozzie had basically given up. I hate that, when I spend good $ on tickets. I told my friend in the second inning that if they leave Vasquez in longer than 4 or 5 innings, this game is finished. My mistake was that I should have known that the players wouldn't give up. And no, this thread doesn't blow!!! Ozzie did giveup but you are the only besides myself who realizes this.

skottyj242
06-26-2006, 02:19 PM
Putting in Ross Gload wouldn't be giving up. He just didn't make a play that most rightfielders couldn't. He is batting ok for the last guy on the bench and in the last few games he has been in he killed the ball but it went right to someone.

Ross Gload is the only reason we even came back. Iguchi got to see those great pitches because Ross was hovering in the dugout driving the pitchers yellow with fear.

Law11
06-26-2006, 02:21 PM
I totally disagree with everyone jumping onthis thread.
I was there and I couldnt belive my eyes when i see Gload on deck for Dye.

Ozzie pulled this the other day pinch running for Thome for ozuna who stood there on 1st for 2 batters. If he wasnt running then why put him in?

Just because we took the trophy last year why is it that the minute anyone
says the slightest thing negative its time to start jumping all over the poster.

Ozzie messed up last night in my opinion. if we cant share an opinion on this board than so be it.

Tokes
06-26-2006, 02:21 PM
i don't think he gave up..i think he was trying bat according to the Houston bullpen. And anyways it wasn't the biggest game of the year.

spiffie
06-26-2006, 02:22 PM
Hawk has said it a thousand times. You have to be O.K. with potentially losing some games for the greater good. I guess you think we should go all out and never play anybody off the bench because our starters are more talented. We were down 9 to 1, and we put in some bench guys, just like 100% of the other teams over the last twenty years, at least, have done. This thread is just stupid and pointless.

As for giving up... the score was 9-2. What was Ozzie supposed to do?
The problem is that Ozzie didn't make the moves with the lineup when we were down 9 to 1 or 9 to 2. If he had it would be a different sort of event. Ozzie pulled Dye for Ross Gload when it was 9 to 5 in the bottom of the 8th. He pulled Crede in the 9th inning. The game was no longer out of reach when he made those moves, nor was it even that big of a deficit. I love Ozzie, but it seems like in this case he didn't so much give up as succumb to always trying for the lefty-righty matchup game. Which is a bad idea when the righty is Jermaine Dye and the lefty is Ross Gload. The talent disparity between those two is just way too much to compensate for any possible matchup gain. To wit:
Gload vs. RHP: .244 (10-41) 1 double
Dye vs. RHP: .272 (43-158), .343 OBP, 7 doubles, 12 HR, 40 RBI.

There is no defensible reason for the move unless Dye was somehow injured. Even if that's the case, I would say there are better ways of handling it than by bringing in the worst hitter in the dugout into a position that he has shown to be very uncomfortable playing. Ozzie made a bad move and it bit us in the ass.

itsnotrequired
06-26-2006, 02:23 PM
Ozzie did giveup but you are the only besides myself who realizes this.

I didn't realize you were privy to a private meeting with Ozzie after the game where he revealed to you his deepest and darkest secrets. Is it true he once ate a pool cue on a bar bet?

Miguel Oliva is a crazy, crazy man...

Law11
06-26-2006, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=spiffie]Ozzie pulled Dye for Ross Gload when it was 9 to 5 in the bottom of the 8th. The game was no longer out of reach when he made that move,


Exactly...

SouthSide_HitMen
06-26-2006, 02:26 PM
There are no more legal greenies / speed in MLB clubhouses. Players will need to be substituted for during more games this season to keep them fresh for the whole season.

The White Sox played the longest schedule last season and expect to do the same this season. Ozzie is paid to manage and I support taking out the starters in a seven run game either way (up or down).

I would put Louis Armstrong's "This Thread Blows" smilie up but it would be an insult to Satchmo.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-26-2006, 02:26 PM
I like seeing Clutch-Crede bat late in games, there is some point to this thread IMO.

spiffie
06-26-2006, 02:28 PM
The White Sox played the longest schedule last season and expect to do the same this season. Ozzie is paid to manage and I support taking out the starters in a seven run game either way (up or down).

What about when the game is within one swing of the bat? Since that's when Dye and Crede got pulled. Iguchi had already made the game 9-5 with the 3 run HR. Dye was pinch hit for 3 batters later in the same inning.

Chicken Dinner
06-26-2006, 02:39 PM
Ozzie clearly pulled the plug on the starters thinking that the game was out of reach. At the same time though, if you can't rely on your bench players, they shouldn't be on your roster.

soxfan13
06-26-2006, 02:48 PM
If my Aunt had balls she would be my uncle. If, If, if, What if Gload hit a game winning HR in the extended innings? What if Konerko wasnt tagged out trying to advance from second base to 3rd with 1 out and the score being 2-1(fly to center)? What if Vazquez didnt groove a 0-2 fastball to Lamb? Every game you can go through millions of scenarios where you can fix the game to the outcome you want. Give Ozzie a break even if he thought it was out of reach and wanted to rest some guys. They always say in the course of 162 game season you are more or less guaranteed to go 60-60 and what you do with the other 42 is how your season will turn out. So what, Ozzie just decided to take this one on the chin and move on(he thought that this was one you were gonna lose). No one will ever be 100% satisfied with a managers move no matter what the out come. If the Sox miss the wild card by 1 game then come back and say told you so!!

AJTrenkle
06-26-2006, 02:50 PM
We all wanted to see the Sox win that game, however in my opinion Guillen was managing his team properly. You need to give guys ABs and chances if you want them to be a part of the team and contribute anything in the future. If you put them in when you are down early, that is the most efficient way to keep them involved. Guillen doesn't get enough credit for managing his roster effectively. It helps create the environment that leads to our bench being the envy of the league right now.

Shakey Bonez
06-26-2006, 02:55 PM
There is NO way Jermaine Dye would have had that ball hit to right. They were shading him to hit to left and the last thing I want to see if Jermaine extending all the way on wet grass for a pop-out.

WizardsofOzzie
06-26-2006, 02:59 PM
It's happened before. Others have also been banned for telling mods how to do their jobs. Now, you were saying....?

Zips lips :smile:

DaleJRFan
06-26-2006, 03:02 PM
The problem is that Ozzie didn't make the moves with the lineup when we were down 9 to 1 or 9 to 2. If he had it would be a different sort of event. Ozzie pulled Dye for Ross Gload when it was 9 to 5 in the bottom of the 8th. He pulled Crede in the 9th inning. The game was no longer out of reach when he made those moves, nor was it even that big of a deficit. I love Ozzie, but it seems like in this case he didn't so much give up as succumb to always trying for the lefty-righty matchup game. Which is a bad idea when the righty is Jermaine Dye and the lefty is Ross Gload. The talent disparity between those two is just way too much to compensate for any possible matchup gain. To wit:
Gload vs. RHP: .244 (10-41) 1 double
Dye vs. RHP: .272 (43-158), .343 OBP, 7 doubles, 12 HR, 40 RBI.

There is no defensible reason for the move unless Dye was somehow injured. Even if that's the case, I would say there are better ways of handling it than by bringing in the worst hitter in the dugout into a position that he has shown to be very uncomfortable playing. Ozzie made a bad move and it bit us in the ass.

Someone mentioned in the game thread that Dye was something like 2-20 against righties going into that at-bat, which explains the Gload move.

Look, we're Sox fans, not professional major league baseball managers. Questioning a move in a game is one thing but to imply that Ozzie had thrown in the towel is just plain ****ing ridiculous.

PaulDrake
06-26-2006, 04:54 PM
Someone mentioned in the game thread that Dye was something like 2-20 against righties going into that at-bat, which explains the Gload move.

Look, we're Sox fans, not professional major league baseball managers. Questioning a move in a game is one thing but to imply that Ozzie had thrown in the towel is just plain ****ing ridiculous. I already posted that I didn't agree with his handling of Vasquez. I'm in no position to know, nor would I assume that Ozzie gave up on the game. However it would be naive to think that athletes and coaches don't sometimes pull up and mail the rest of a game in when the situation looks dire. I've seen teams mail in the rest of a season. A certain baseball team playing on the north side comes to mind. It happens.

bluestar
06-26-2006, 05:06 PM
If my Aunt had balls she would be my uncle. If, If, if, What if Gload hit a game winning HR in the extended innings? What if Konerko wasnt tagged out trying to advance from second base to 3rd with 1 out and the score being 2-1(fly to center)? What if Vazquez didnt groove a 0-2 fastball to Lamb? Every game you can go through millions of scenarios where you can fix the game to the outcome you want. Give Ozzie a break even if he thought it was out of reach and wanted to rest some guys. They always say in the course of 162 game season you are more or less guaranteed to go 60-60 and what you do with the other 42 is how your season will turn out. So what, Ozzie just decided to take this one on the chin and move on(he thought that this was one you were gonna lose). No one will ever be 100% satisfied with a managers move no matter what the out come. If the Sox miss the wild card by 1 game then come back and say told you so!!

Amen. Thome was 0 for 6 last night, and looked pretty bad doing it. Why not blame him for his lame at-bats? Konerko struck out on a horrible ball-four pitch in the bottom of the 12th; why not blame him?

Both Crede and Dye have been plagued with nagging injuries, and for all we know they are still bothered by them. With the wet conditions, maybe Ozzie thought it best not to risk them slipping and being hurt worse?

Chisox003
06-26-2006, 05:09 PM
Dumb

:rolleyes:

Corlose 15
06-26-2006, 05:13 PM
I hear Ozzie Guillen sleeps nude in an oxygen tent which he believes gives him sexual powers.

:rolleyes:

Hey, thats a half-truth.

Iwritecode
06-26-2006, 05:20 PM
I'm pretty sure I remember some guy named Geoff Blum hitting a go-ahead run in the 14th inning of game 3 of the WS last year. I guess Ozzie was an idiot then too because Blum came in off the bench.

You guys are acting like game-tying grand-slams happen in the bottom of the 9th all the time. :rolleyes:

yesenia
06-26-2006, 05:21 PM
How many times has the "B Team" come in and saved the day. I dont think they gave up. I think that the starting line up wasnt doing enough to catch up (Iguchi hit- I know) and they needed some fresh faces in there. Sometimes you have to change it up.

Soxworldchamps
06-26-2006, 05:24 PM
I don't know... it seems to me like Ozzie just isn't the kind of guy to just give up like that. I'm sure he had his reasons for taking Crede and Dye out, and I doubt any of them had to do with throwing in the towel.

JB98
06-26-2006, 05:24 PM
Two points on this topic:

1. Ozzie took Dye out of the game with the score 9-5. If it had still been 9-2, I would have agreed with the move. The game was still in doubt when Gload pinch-hit, so I would have preferred that Dye stay in.

2. bigredrudy only posts when he has something to bitch about. It's tiring.

fquaye149
06-26-2006, 05:28 PM
Two points on this topic:

1. Ozzie took Dye out of the game with the score 9-5. If it had still been 9-2, I would have agreed with the move. The game was still in doubt when Gload pinch-hit, so I would have preferred that Dye stay in.

2. bigredrudy only posts when he has something to bitch about. It's tiring.

in re: #1, it was a lefty righty thing. Maybe not the greatest move ever, but the fact is: Gload can hit a little. He's not a perfect outfielder, in fact, he's below average. But Ozzie has access to things like matchups and splits that I'm too lazy to look up. He also can talk to his players and bench coaches. He also doesn't necessarily know that a 9-5 game going into the bottom of the ninth against a man who has as good of stuff as any closer in baseball (Lidge) is going to result in a TWO OUT (mind you) game tying grand slam.

This is how baseball is played from time to time. Sometimes substitutions bite you in the ass. Whoops.

spiffie
06-26-2006, 05:30 PM
I'm pretty sure I remember some guy named Geoff Blum hitting a go-ahead run in the 14th inning of game 3 of the WS last year. I guess Ozzie was an idiot then too because Blum came in off the bench.

You guys are acting like game-tying grand-slams happen in the bottom of the 9th all the time. :rolleyes:
No, but I would say that the Sox have had 4 run innings on a not uncommon basis this year.

If Ozzie had made all the moves he made with the score 9-1 I wouldn't be upset. I would be amazed that they got it that close and just be saying "wow, shame they didn't have the big bats in." But he made these moves when we were 4 runs back. If anyone on this board were to post in a gameday thread that the game was over when we had a 4 run deficit everyone would be ripping them a new one.

And as for believing in your bench, that's all well and good, but to replace one of the best hitters in the AL this year with a career minor leaguer who has shown no pinch-hitting aptitude whatsoever is a vastly different than replacing one middle infielder with another one who bats from the other side of the plate. There is no reason to ever believe that you will get better performance from Ross Gload than you will from Jermaine Dye. As for rest, I have to doubt that missing 1 at-bat and 1 inning in the field (which since everyone seems to be saying Ozzie was right in thinking the game was over) would really help him that much over the course of the season. Much better to wait another day, give him 2 straight days off and rest him on Tuesday against Pittsburgh.

As for the Blum comparison, its apples and taxicabs. Blum was in because he had to be due to issues with being in a National League park and pinch-hitters/replacement fielders.

QCIASOXFAN
06-26-2006, 05:30 PM
I liked seeing the bench players in game even if we did not win. Eventually down the line I think those at bats will help Gload and the other bench players. Down the line I am referring to the playoffs. I don't think you can run around blaming Ozzie, I don't think that is really fare. We lost a game because of a bad luck. It's baseball and these kinds of things happen sometimes. Maybe we should focus more on the positive things like how we came back from 9-2 to tie the game in the last 2 innings. I think a lot of teams would have packed it in.

JB98
06-26-2006, 05:51 PM
in re: #1, it was a lefty righty thing. Maybe not the greatest move ever, but the fact is: Gload can hit a little. He's not a perfect outfielder, in fact, he's below average. But Ozzie has access to things like matchups and splits that I'm too lazy to look up. He also can talk to his players and bench coaches. He also doesn't necessarily know that a 9-5 game going into the bottom of the ninth against a man who has as good of stuff as any closer in baseball (Lidge) is going to result in a TWO OUT (mind you) game tying grand slam.

This is how baseball is played from time to time. Sometimes substitutions bite you in the ass. Whoops.

You're suggesting that Ozzie pinch-hit Gload for Dye because of a lefty-righty matchup thing? If so, I'd like to wring Ozzie's neck. Dye is an All-Star RF, one of the best hitters in the league this year. Under no circumstance should he be pinch-hit for unless the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. I'm pretty sure Ozzie took JD out because he thought the game was over. Wrong. If you are within four runs, you are still very much in the game because a grand slam will tie it. I think it was a bad move by Ozzie.

fquaye149
06-26-2006, 06:00 PM
You're suggesting that Ozzie pinch-hit Gload for Dye because of a lefty-righty matchup thing? If so, I'd like to wring Ozzie's neck. Dye is an All-Star RF, one of the best hitters in the league this year. Under no circumstance should he be pinch-hit for unless the outcome of the game is no longer in doubt. I'm pretty sure Ozzie took JD out because he thought the game was over. Wrong. If you are within four runs, you are still very much in the game because a grand slam will tie it. I think it was a bad move by Ozzie.

I think it was a combination:

the game was close, but not a save situation, and Gload's not a bad hitter, especially against righties. Not exactly a TACTICAL move, but in a game like this it wasn't an AWFUL move either

JB98
06-26-2006, 06:28 PM
I think it was a combination:

the game was close, but not a save situation, and Gload's not a bad hitter, especially against righties. Not exactly a TACTICAL move, but in a game like this it wasn't an AWFUL move either

Well, it didn't lose us the game. I don't believe Dye would have made the catch on Everett's ball in the 13th or anything. But I do think I'd rather have JD at the plate than Gload in the late innings of a close game. I don't think Gload is a bad hitter. It's just that JD is far superior. It was like Ozzie had made up his mind that Gload would come in with the score 9-2. Once the score went to 9-5, I believe he should have changed his mind and stayed with JD.

wassagstdu
06-26-2006, 06:33 PM
An absolutely ridiculous thread in view of the performance of the bench this year. In clutch situations they have often outperformed the regulars lately. No way Ozzie was giving up.

.

Chisox003
06-26-2006, 06:37 PM
FWIW, Farmer said Dye did not look good on the bench last night in the bottom of the 9th.

Sometimes I think people on this site stir up **** just for the sake of stirring up ****. It's ridiculous.

LongLiveFisk
06-26-2006, 07:33 PM
I've said it before and i'll say it again, there should be a rule that you can ban someone for repeatedly saying stupid things like this assclown

It's also not necessary to call someone a nasty name just because you disagree with them. Unless, of course, this person derives some mysterious, gratuitous pleasure from saying repeated idiotic things.

:moron "You talking about me?"

BadBobbyJenks
06-26-2006, 07:42 PM
Lovely, we come off a 6-1 road trip and a 5-1 home stand against last years nlcs teams and this is the garbage that gets posted...Can we not enjoy the amazing baseball we have been playing?


In Ozzie we trust

FarWestChicago
06-26-2006, 08:57 PM
Sometimes I think people on this site stir up **** just for the sake of stirring up ****. It's ridiculous.Actually, some people here are delusional enough to believe they are better GM's than KW or better managers than Ozzie. :redneck

Deuce
06-26-2006, 09:13 PM
Actually, some people here are delusional enough to believe they are better GM's than KW or better managers than Ozzie. :redneckWhich reminds me, what ever happened to Dadawg_77?

Jose.Contreras
06-26-2006, 09:21 PM
I haven't been posting here for very long at all. A month or so, in fact. But in this short amount of time I have noticed that BigRedRudy consistently makes ridiculous/dumb/pointless posts. What the hell is wrong with this guy? Is this really fun for you? Seriously, dude.:?:

I know some of you think there is some validity to this post. However, it's the way BigRedRudy goes about things. How about instead of making a moronic blanket statement saying Ozzie gives up....... you say "I think Ozzie really made a mistake last night in pulling certain players a bit early."

I have noticed a whole bunch of ridiculous posts by BigRedRudy aleardy. It's a pattern. So what's the deal, Rudy? Are you a White Sox fan or not???

FarWestChicago
06-26-2006, 09:23 PM
Which reminds me, what ever happened to Dadawg_77?:roflmao:

ozziesox13
06-26-2006, 09:31 PM
It is possible Ozzie was resting some players. It is possible with the weather conditions, Ozzie wanted to not take a chance on some of his players, particularly Dye late in the game. Dye is a decent right fielder, but not a great one. I'm not sure he would have made that play. You call Ozzie a quitter? Give me a break. If he really felt that way, he would not express his pride with how well his team fights and is never out of a game. I was at that game last night. It was fantastic to watch the Sox fight back.

The fact is, we have a strong bench, and if Ozzie cannot trust they can do the job when asked, they don't deserve to wear a Major League uniform. We have one of the strongest benches in all of baseball. Ozzie should not have to second guess using these guys. Gload was just a foot or two away from a home run last night. He's a decent player. One of the luxuries in having a strong bench is you can rest your players. I'd rather have that than injuries to our starters during a game in June. Ozzie's no quitter.

pearso66
06-26-2006, 09:35 PM
I just want to point out, being at the game, I think Ozuna came in on D when it was still 9-2. I know he came in before Gload.

Britt Burns
06-26-2006, 09:46 PM
Grrrr...some people don't get it. When the Sox win a game because Gload/Ozuna/Cintron etc. gets a clutch pinch hit-perhaps because they are sharp from increased ABs earlier in the year, i.e. last night-won't Ozzie look all that much smarter?

In fact, what is more likely, the Sox win on the strength of key bench players (who again, need a fairly steady stream of at bats to keep sharp), or the Sox come back from a 9-1 score? Everyone was griping last year when Oz would play bench players, especially in that tough stretch towards the end, and yet the Sox were fresh and energetic for the playoffs and the other teams looked flat out of gas.

Chicken Dinner
06-26-2006, 09:54 PM
Grrrr...some people don't get it. When the Sox win a game because Gload/Ozuna/Cintron etc. gets a clutch pinch hit-perhaps because they are sharp from increased ABs earlier in the year, i.e. last night-won't Ozzie look all that much smarter?

In fact, what is more likely, the Sox win on the strength of key bench players (who again, need a fairly steady stream of at bats to keep sharp), or the Sox come back from a 9-1 score? Everyone was griping last year when Oz would play bench players, especially in that tough stretch towards the end, and yet the Sox were fresh and energetic for the playoffs and the other teams looked flat out of gas.

Only Timo.

Zisk77
06-26-2006, 10:01 PM
Why did Ozzie talk Crede and Dye out? Lets see... Dye has had reocurring calf problems. Crede has had reoccurring back problems. Its cool out and its raining. Gee might there be circumstances that are not obvious that dictate a manager making a decision. Lets not sound like the idiot talking heads that think they are reincarnation of Casey Stengel.:tongue:

Blueprint1
06-26-2006, 10:04 PM
I think every game is being looked at as a must win by everyone. The thing is we are going to lose some games. We had won 9 games in a row last night. The tigers are so hot right now they are on fire. There is nothing we can do about that. Expecting a baseball team to win every game is expecting the impossible. Remember it looked like Cleveland couldn't lose a game last year. Right before we swept them out of the playoffs.

MarySwiss
06-26-2006, 10:09 PM
I haven't been posting here for very long at all. A month or so, in fact. But in this short amount of time I have noticed that BigRedRudy consistently makes ridiculous/dumb/pointless posts. What the hell is wrong with this guy? Is this really fun for you? Seriously, dude.:?:

I know some of you think there is some validity to this post. However, it's the way BigRedRudy goes about things. How about instead of making a moronic blanket statement saying Ozzie gives up....... you say "I think Ozzie really made a mistake last night in pulling certain players a bit early."

I have noticed a whole bunch of ridiculous posts by BigRedRudy aleardy. It's a pattern. So what's the deal, Rudy? Are you a White Sox fan or not???

Take it easy. You're right about one thing; you haven't been posting here for long. If you had, you would know that differences of opinion are allowed, within reason. You don't agree with him and he, quite likely, doesn't agree with you. It's all good; the mods do a great job of whacking any posters who overstep the lines.

Jose.Contreras
06-26-2006, 10:17 PM
Take it easy. You're right about one thing; you haven't been posting here for long. If you had, you would know that differences of opinion are allowed, within reason. You don't agree with him and he, quite likely, doesn't agree with you. It's all good; the mods do a great job of whacking any posters who overstep the lines.

OK. I gotcha. But I really do think bigredrudy is just saying this stuff just to ruffle feathers. :wink:

FarWestChicago
06-26-2006, 10:38 PM
Take it easy. You're right about one thing; you haven't been posting here for long.He's also right about bigredrudy. The guy just posts ridiculous crap to stir people up.

kittle42
06-26-2006, 10:38 PM
Managers tend to take a few of their starters out of games that are generally considered "out of reach."

That should really be the answer to any issue posed by this thread.

flo-B-flo
06-26-2006, 10:52 PM
Why did Ozzie talk Crede and Dye out? Lets see... Dye has had reocurring calf problems. Crede has had reoccurring back problems. Its cool out and its raining. This is exactly why I think Ozzie made the moves. No big deal really. Sox got a great bench. And you need Dye and Crede ALL year.

Deuce
06-26-2006, 10:55 PM
He's also right about bigredrudy. The guy just posts ridiculous crap to stir people up.Which reminds me, what ever happened to Aiden?

WizardsofOzzie
06-27-2006, 01:46 PM
It's also not necessary to call someone a nasty name just because you disagree with them. Unless, of course, this person derives some mysterious, gratuitous pleasure from saying repeated idiotic things.

:moron "You talking about me?"


That would be the case here.

spiffie
06-27-2006, 01:58 PM
Managers tend to take a few of their starters out of games that are generally considered "out of reach."

That should really be the answer to any issue posed by this thread.
I would ask then what is considered "out of reach"? Where do you say that the game is beyond the point where a team should reasonably expect to be able to make a comeback? I'm just curious as to where that line is at.

CynicSox
06-27-2006, 02:04 PM
I was at the game, and confess that I left in the middle of the 7th inning when it started to rain. The main reason is, I also thought that Ozzie had given up. Vazquez clearly had nothing, and to leave him in as long as he did, and then bring in minor leaguer Montero when he finally did take him out, indicated to me that Ozzie had basically given up. I hate that, when I spend good $ on tickets. I told my friend in the second inning that if they leave Vasquez in longer than 4 or 5 innings, this game is finished. My mistake was that I should have known that the players wouldn't give up. And no, this thread doesn't blow!!!

I agree. How about the lazy defense. No one diving for balls up the infield. The Sox just plain didn't care. That is, except for Iguchi.

miker
06-27-2006, 02:06 PM
The Sox just plain didn't care.
Your first name isn't Jay, is it?

Sometimes...no, many times I don't understand people! :?:

CynicSox
06-27-2006, 02:07 PM
I also love how any time someone questions the Sox, they're attacked by tons of posters who think they're baseball experts and labeled morons cause of the fact they question the Sox. Get a life.

CynicSox
06-27-2006, 02:09 PM
Your first name isn't Jay, is it?

Sometimes...no, many times I don't understand people! :?:

Sorry I was at the game and saw how lazy they were playing it seemed like until suddenly later in the game they came to life. And I don't mean offensively. See my previous post.

CynicSox
06-27-2006, 02:10 PM
Sorry I was at the game and saw how lazy they were playing it seemed like until suddenly later in the game they came to life. And I don't mean offensively. See my previous post.

And if you think I don't know what I'm talking about "genius" maybe you should have heard everyone else in my section of the Upper Deck with similar views.

miker
06-27-2006, 02:22 PM
And if you think I don't know what I'm talking about "genius" maybe you should have heard everyone else in my section of the Upper Deck with similar views.

You are absolutely correct. I missed that game and only heard during the post-game show that the Sox came back from a 9-1 deficit to tie the game in their last at bat. Since by your section's analysis that they obviously weren't trying to win, I will assume (and wait for your confirmation) that the Astros felt sorry and let the Sox get back in the game before winning in extra innings. I'm sure the Houston pitchers are expecting a nice "Thank You" card from Iguchi, maybe on one of those very elegant Japanese papers.

BadBobbyJenks
06-27-2006, 02:25 PM
I also love how any time someone questions the Sox, they're attacked by tons of posters who think they're baseball experts and labeled morons cause of the fact they question the Sox. Get a life.


Im sorry but the roll we have been on to hear some bull**** about ozzie mailing in a game is going to bug the hell out of me. 9-2 after 7 innings is out of reach and with the conditions, I had no problem with players with past injuries DYE and Crede being taken out. We have the best bench in baseball and we need to trust it, as Ozzie has. There is a reason for what Ozzie does and you will see it in October, if you already forgot how fresh everyone looked last October....

Give me a break, fans have all the right to question the sox but have a legitimate reason. This basis for this thread was non sense and should be treated that way.

Chicken Dinner
06-27-2006, 02:25 PM
Play nice children.

WizardsofOzzie
06-27-2006, 02:33 PM
I also love how any time someone questions the Sox, they're attacked by tons of posters who think they're baseball experts and labeled morons cause of the fact they question the Sox. Get a life.

Personally i was just attacking bigredrudy because as West said, he just posts things to stir the pot. Look at his post history and you wont find many positive posts about the Sox

Iwritecode
06-27-2006, 02:40 PM
Something interesting...

Wheeler's splits (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=235095&sitSplit1=All&statType=2&splitSet=1&statSet=1)

It appears he's much better against right-handers than he is against left-handers.

Gload also hits right-handed pitchers better than Dye. Seems like Ozzie was playing the odds...

voodoochile
06-27-2006, 02:52 PM
Yeah, he put in some bench players when the odds on winning were very small.

Then he got unlucky when Pods got just a little too much under his slap to left in the 10th and the popup fell for a triple in the final inning. Pods' ball gets down, game over, Sox win. Gload manages to catch he popup, they might still be playing.

That's baseball. That's life.

miker
06-27-2006, 03:00 PM
That's baseball. That's life.
And that, in a much more elegant wording, was essentially my point.

Let's go kick some Bucs!

spiffie
06-27-2006, 03:12 PM
Something interesting...

Wheeler's splits (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=235095&sitSplit1=All&statType=2&splitSet=1&statSet=1)

It appears he's much better against right-handers than he is against left-handers.

Gload also hits right-handed pitchers better than Dye. Seems like Ozzie was playing the odds...
No, Gload doesn't hit RH pitchers better than Dye. As I posted earlier in this thread:
Gload vs. RHP: .244 (10-41) 1 double
Dye vs. RHP: .272 (43-158), .343 OBP, 7 doubles, 12 HR, 40 RBI.

Steelrod
06-27-2006, 03:24 PM
I guess were just stuck with Ozzie being satisfied with winning 9 out of 10.
I hope he's not losing his inner drive.

Iwritecode
06-27-2006, 03:36 PM
No, Gload doesn't hit RH pitchers better than Dye. As I posted earlier in this thread:
Gload vs. RHP: .244 (10-41) 1 double
Dye vs. RHP: .272 (43-158), .343 OBP, 7 doubles, 12 HR, 40 RBI.

That's an awful small sample size. Stretch it out to the past 3 years:

Gload = .281 avg (65 - 231), .340 obp

Dye = .248 avg (233 - 940), .299 obp

Gload hits RH pitchers better than Dye.

spiffie
06-27-2006, 03:46 PM
That's an awful small sample size. Stretch it out to the past 3 years:

Gload = .281 avg (65 - 231), .340 obp

Dye = .248 avg (233 - 940), .299 obp

Gload hits RH pitchers better than Dye.
Dye was also injured during a lot of that time frame.

Career vs RHP:
Dye 270/328/473
Gload 271/324/394

Over his career Dye has hit just as often against RHP but with much more power.

The basic problem with this is that except in this thread where the default response is that Ozzie is infallible, if I ask you who you want up in a 4-run game where the Sox are trying to come back, how many folks are going to pick Gload over Dye, regardless of which side the pitcher is coming from?

CynicSox
06-27-2006, 05:13 PM
Im sorry but the roll we have been on to hear some bull**** about ozzie mailing in a game is going to bug the hell out of me. 9-2 after 7 innings is out of reach and with the conditions, I had no problem with players with past injuries DYE and Crede being taken out. We have the best bench in baseball and we need to trust it, as Ozzie has. There is a reason for what Ozzie does and you will see it in October, if you already forgot how fresh everyone looked last October....

Give me a break, fans have all the right to question the sox but have a legitimate reason. This basis for this thread was non sense and should be treated that way.

I didn't say Ozzie threw the game away, or that his moves in replacing Dye and Crede were the problem, I'm just saying overall the team looked either tired as hell or like they weren't in the game.

SouthSide_HitMen
06-27-2006, 05:21 PM
Yeah, he put in some bench players when the odds on winning were very small.

Stop being rational here.

Iwritecode
06-27-2006, 05:33 PM
Dye was also injured during a lot of that time frame.

Career vs RHP:
Dye 270/328/473
Gload 271/324/394

Over his career Dye has hit just as often against RHP but with much more power.

The basic problem with this is that except in this thread where the default response is that Ozzie is infallible, if I ask you who you want up in a 4-run game where the Sox are trying to come back, how many folks are going to pick Gload over Dye, regardless of which side the pitcher is coming from?


You'd have to at least put the question in perspective.

Bottom of the 8th, two outs, down by 4 with the bottom of the lineup coming in the ninth to face Brad Lidge and it's raining. Who do you want batting?

Unless JD can hit a grandslam with the bases empty, I'd say flip a coin...

Although I might give the edge to Gload being a lefty considering the pitcher's splits.

EdHerman12
06-27-2006, 05:42 PM
Anyone who second guesses Ozzie should tell him in person, but make sure you don't talk to him on his left side...you see he has a great BIG world series championship ring that he sticks in the left ear for safe keeping....he may not hear you....:wink:

spiffie
06-27-2006, 05:53 PM
You'd have to at least put the question in perspective.

Bottom of the 8th, two outs, down by 4 with the bottom of the lineup coming in the ninth to face Brad Lidge and it's raining. Who do you want batting?

Unless JD can hit a grandslam with the bases empty, I'd say flip a coin...

Although I might give the edge to Gload being a lefty considering the pitcher's splits.
Let's re-rephrase the question.

Team is coming off of scoring 4 runs in the last 1 2/3 innings. Coming up after Dye are two more .300+ hitters. On the bench is Ross Gload, who has no pinch hits and is not hitting as well against RHP as Jermaine Dye. Gload also has been sitting the entire game and is now expected to come in cold against a fresh reliever in the aforementioned rain. Who do you want batting?

Ol' No. 2
06-27-2006, 06:01 PM
Let's re-rephrase the question.

Team is coming off of scoring 4 runs in the last 1 2/3 innings. Coming up after Dye are two more .300+ hitters. On the bench is Ross Gload, who has no pinch hits and is not hitting as well against RHP as Jermaine Dye. Gload also has been sitting the entire game and is now expected to come in cold against a fresh reliever in the aforementioned rain. Who do you want batting?Replacing Dye with Gload for offense is totally out of character for Ozzie. I don't buy it. I also don't believe it was a white flag move, since he would have done that two innings earlier when they were down 9-2. I'm willing to bet that JD has a nagging injury of some kind and Ozzie wanted to get him out of the game. Don't be surprised if he's not in the lineup tonight.