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View Full Version : Way To Go Telander


RedHeadPaleHoser
06-26-2006, 07:27 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick26.html

I'm just waiting to see what Mariotti calls Telander for writing this. Well done, Rick!!!

FRANK FORT
06-26-2006, 07:50 AM
What part of this article makes you think it's either pro-Sox or anti-Mariotti??

Frank the Tank
06-26-2006, 07:54 AM
What part of this article makes you think it's either pro-Sox or anti-Mariotti??

I was thinking the same thing. A pretty worthless article in my opinion.

Madvora
06-26-2006, 07:58 AM
Yeah, I don't know. This article really doesn't say anything at all.

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-26-2006, 08:05 AM
I read that to say that as much as Mariotti has brought up how he "feels", he takes no issue with slamming players, coaches, etc., and is never in person in the clubhouse, giving credence to Ozzie's point about being protected and saying inflammatory things. In addition, the Sox staff commented to Telander that there's not been any incidents regarding Mariotti.

Dolanski
06-26-2006, 08:42 AM
Mariotti keeps trying to hide behind the whole, "I fear for my safety" argument claiming that he has been threatened by staff, players, Hawk, etc. And Telander and several others from ESPN, the Tribune, and the Daily Southtown, have all called him out on it. Several articles over the past few days have talked about how their unspoken code of conduct is to show up after writing nasty articles to take their lumps from those they offended. They have all said that they have been threatened by players, coaches and managers, as well as saying that there has been only ONE incident in the White Sox clubhouse in the past few years and that involved two sportswriters, neither Mariotti.

Basically, they are calling Mariotti out on being a coward.

Tokes
06-26-2006, 08:53 AM
Ozzie is so close to getting the idea in his head to ignore this guy...so close.

Mariottti that is.

dickallen15
06-26-2006, 08:54 AM
Calling Thomas the Big Skirt, and Hawkins LaToya seems to indicate Mariotti needs sensitivity training. While Ozzie's word useage left a lot to be desired, in the end, he called Mariotti a name. Something Mariotti has done thousands of times.

34rancher
06-26-2006, 09:21 AM
Calling Thomas the Big Skirt, and Hawkins LaToya seems to indicate Mariotti needs sensitivity training. While Ozzie's word useage left a lot to be desired, in the end, he called Mariotti a name. Something Mariotti has done thousands of times.
I couldn't agree more in the need for Mariotti to attend sensitivity training for his reference to bashing women. By calling them these names, is he bashing women by trying to say that women are inferior? Hmmm....

infohawk
06-26-2006, 09:46 AM
Yeah, I don't know. This article really doesn't say anything at all.
I think that what Telander is saying is that the "larger issue" raised by the Marrioti situation is what constitutes true, legitimate and fair coverage in the multimedia age.

infohawk
06-26-2006, 09:50 AM
Calling Thomas the Big Skirt, and Hawkins LaToya seems to indicate Mariotti needs sensitivity training. While Ozzie's word useage left a lot to be desired, in the end, he called Mariotti a name. Something Mariotti has done thousands of times.
Yeah, really! It's as if Marrioti believes that being compared to a woman is somehow debasing. Surely Jay wouldn't be a misogynist, would he?

Palehose13
06-26-2006, 09:53 AM
Calling Thomas the Big Skirt, and Hawkins LaToya seems to indicate Mariotti needs sensitivity training. While Ozzie's word useage left a lot to be desired, in the end, he called Mariotti a name. Something Mariotti has done thousands of times.

Great point about Mariotti and both guys are wrong with their word use.

chaerulez
06-26-2006, 09:55 AM
Rick Morissey's column was much better:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060622morrissey,1,3911834.column?coll=cs-home-utility

He calls out The Moron, and says it is a columnists job to show up to the clubhouse.

Viva Medias B's
06-26-2006, 09:56 AM
Perhaps Telander should have made a reference to today's Mariotti column. A look at today's Mariotti column, which we rightfully do not link here at WSI, sheds light on why he may hate the White Sox so much. Without subjecting you to details, today's column is a praise of Michael Jordan for his new association with the Charlotte Bobcats. Mariotti is a long time member of what Boers & Bernstein call the Jordan [Arse] Licking Society, and he sided with Jordan's camp against Jerry Reinsdorf at the end of the Bulls dynasty. I think Mariotti's hatred for the White Sox to this very day is, at least partially, based upon this.

Brewski
06-26-2006, 10:34 AM
The Sunday afternoon hosts at WSCR were on a 5 hour Ozzie trashing yesterday when one of them read from Jay's Sunday column a list of the reasons he won't go to the clubhouse. One of them was the memory of a naked Ozzie, in his playing days, standing behind him doing pelvic thrusts. Hilarious!! Where is a film crew when you need it? I would settle for one of you computer geniuses cooking something up (in good taste, of course) for WSI.

After I got tired of the above droning I switched to the Cubs postgame to enjoy the weeping and moaning. The final caller was a sweet little suburban lady who, when the subject of Santo was brought up, must have gone into a profanity-laden rant, because someone hit the dump button leading to 15 seconds of dead air. Also hilarious.

MarySwiss
06-26-2006, 10:41 AM
One of the Arizona Republic columnists today was commenting about John Rocker's comments to the Trib. He pointed out that--funny thing, few people have had a problem with Ozzie ripping the windsock. More and more media types seem to be picking up on that fact.

kevin57
06-26-2006, 11:44 AM
One of the Arizona Republic columnists today was commenting about John Rocker's comments to the Trib. He pointed out that--funny thing, few people have had a problem with Ozzie ripping the windsock. More and more media types seem to be picking up on that fact.

There is one significant distinction between Rocker and Guillen in their comments. Ozzie called out an individual (a public one at that) with one offensive word. Rocker did a diatribe on an entire city using a flood of offensive language.

MarySwiss
06-26-2006, 11:51 AM
There is one significant distinction between Rocker and Guillen in their comments. Ozzie called out an individual (a public one at that) with one offensive word. Rocker did a diatribe on an entire city using a flood of offensive language.

True. And the columnist had nothing good to say about Rocker, who's a bigoted jerk. I just think it's interesting how basically no one cares about the fact that Ozzie slammed the Windsock; the objection is about the language he used in doing so.

DumpJerry
06-26-2006, 11:52 AM
First of all, I find it interesting that nobody from the Sun Times is standing up for Mariotti in light of the accusations about his lack of ethics. Secondly, a friend of mine is good friends with Telander and let me just say this: not only should you never seat Mariotti and Telander next to each other a dinner party, you're better off leaving on off the guest list. There is no love lost between the two of them.

In my opinion, Mariotti collects a paycheck and nothing more. Nobody uses him as an authoritative source of useful information or cites him when talking about what the insiders in a particular sport are doing. He's a clown and nothing more. The Sun Times would do themselves a huge favor by letting him go, he does not add to the circulation/advertising numbers.

tebman
06-26-2006, 12:15 PM
First of all, I find it interesting that nobody from the Sun Times is standing up for Mariotti in light of the accusations about his lack of ethics. Secondly, a friend of mine is good friends with Telander and let me just say this: not only should you never seat Mariotti and Telander next to each other a dinner party, you're better off leaving on off the guest list. There is no love lost between the two of them.

In my opinion, Mariotti collects a paycheck and nothing more. Nobody uses him as an authoritative source of useful information or cites him when talking about what the insiders in a particular sport are doing. He's a clown and nothing more. The Sun Times would do themselves a huge favor by letting him go, he does not add to the circulation/advertising numbers.
JM is not a beloved figure among his press peers. I posted a link to Neil Steinberg's Sun-Times column a couple of days ago in which he referred sarcastically to JM as his "...uh, colleague [in italics]" and that he was disappointed that Ozzie couldn't think of any number of other insults that would've been more apt to describe JM.

If in fact he's not adding anything to the Sun-Times circulation with his bomb-throwing, then the only reason he's still there is that he has a contract that the Sun-Times is playing out.

The sad thing in all of this is that Ozzie let himself get drawn into a puerile shouting match and jumped way over the line in his response. Call it sensitivity training, call it a language class, call it a chewing-out, but Ozzie has to be held accountable for his words. The White Sox will be around long after JM has faded away, and KW needs to remind Ozzie of that.

spiffie
06-26-2006, 12:22 PM
While watching the ESPN broadcast last night all I could think of was how mad the Moron must be as the announcers spent a long long time talking about Ozzie's controversy and yet they never mentioned Moron by name one single time. Even though he does work on ESPN shows they still never gave him a single mention or moment of air time. Must have driven him nuts hearing them keep referring to "a columnist" or "a local media person" instead of naming him.

Flight #24
06-26-2006, 12:34 PM
One of them was the memory of a naked Ozzie, in his playing days, standing behind him doing pelvic thrusts. Hilarious!! Where is a film crew when you need it? I would settle for one of you computer geniuses cooking something up (in good taste, of course) for WSI.


Was I the only one who immediately thought.....
:kermit

soxgirl617
06-26-2006, 12:34 PM
IMHO, the best way to deal with JM is to simply IGNORE him. Don't read his trash, don't click on it on the Sun Times Web page (you know they count those clicks, right?), don't do anything to make the Sun Times think JM is relevant or interesting in any way. Perhaps, just perhaps, in time he will get the boot. (I know, more than we could ask for, but I think the Sun Times keeps him around b/c he's such a jerk.)

pudge
06-26-2006, 12:39 PM
Typical worthless Telandar garbage. I have such disdain for that guy because writes about *nothing* all the friggin time. He asks the big question and then never answer it! What a joke.

On the other hand, Morrisey earned a lot of respect with his last column.

digdagdug23
06-26-2006, 12:43 PM
JM is not a beloved figure among his press peers. I posted a link to Neil Steinberg's Sun-Times column a couple of days ago in which he referred sarcastically to JM as his "...uh, colleague [in italics]" and that he was disappointed that Ozzie couldn't think of any number of other insults that would've been more apt to describe JM.

If in fact he's not adding anything to the Sun-Times circulation with his bomb-throwing, then the only reason he's still there is that he has a contract that the Sun-Times is playing out.

The sad thing in all of this is that Ozzie let himself get drawn into a puerile shouting match and jumped way over the line in his response. Call it sensitivity training, call it a language class, call it a chewing-out, but Ozzie has to be held accountable for his words. The White Sox will be around long after JM has faded away, and KW needs to remind Ozzie of that.

This is the most interesting part of this whole debate. To wit: As reprehensive as the comments were, it has served as a sort of catalyst in the debate on what type of writing is becoming acceptable. By sitting by, taking the so-called 'high road' in the battle of whits with JM, it only serves as a type of permission in writers of JM's league by sending them the message that you can say exactly what you want, diminish and demean all you like, and pretty much go unchecked. If you don't have to actually own up to the scathing critiques you write, then it is comparable to playing tether-ball alone.

Would anyone have paid any attention to this debate had Ozzie used a reference like 'moron' instead of the homophobic term he used? I don't think so. After all, during pre-game conferences, there are usually a few reporters, but nothing like the circus that is going on now. Ozzie has his mouth firing on all cylinders the majority of the time, and I love him for it. He seems to be the glue that binds our great team together. He had a momentary lapse in judgement and was called to the carpet, and has admitted he will seek help, and that's perfectly fine with me. If this helps him to learn the vernacular, great.

If this serves as even a small step towards responsible journalism, then just maybe it in some small way partially makes up for the use of the term in the first place.

TornLabrum
06-26-2006, 12:43 PM
True. And the columnist had nothing good to say about Rocker, who's a bigoted jerk. I just think it's interesting how basically no one cares about the fact that Ozzie slammed the Windsock; the objection is about the language he used in doing so.

Yup, if he'd just stuck to calling him a ****ing piece of ****, nothing would have been said by any of the columnists. It's hard to offend ****.

TheKittle
06-26-2006, 01:28 PM
A couple things. If you as a fan are calling out Mariotti, what about the fans on places like WSI, who will rip a player or a GM and they never have to face that player or GM? It must be nice to hide behind a keyboard.

One of my favorite columnists is TJ Simers of the LA Times. He's funny as hell and one thing I admire him for, is ripping a player and the next day going into the lockerroom and facing that player. He also happens to be the twin brother of a WSI poster. :)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-columnist-tsimers,1,2220369.columnist

chidonez
06-26-2006, 01:30 PM
Calling Thomas the Big Skirt, and Hawkins LaToya seems to indicate Mariotti needs sensitivity training. While Ozzie's word useage left a lot to be desired, in the end, he called Mariotti a name. Something Mariotti has done thousands of times.

The same day that the guys were bashing Ozzie on SCR, they compared a guy to Liberace. There's a lot of hypocrisy going around.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-26-2006, 01:36 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/cst-spt-rick26.html

I'm just waiting to see what Mariotti calls Telander for writing this. Well done, Rick!!!

I won't even click the link and make their online advertisers happy, I'm done with the Sun Times. Telander is a pretty arrogant guy anyway.

SBSoxFan
06-26-2006, 01:59 PM
I thought Bob Verdi's article was pretty good, although he only implicitly rips Marrioti. He tells of the time Dave Kingman threatened to kill him, how Verdi never told anyone about it, and how, regardless, a writer should be there to 1) get facts on which to base a column, and 2) face the music after ripping an athlete.

edit: I forget. Are we not supposed to link trib articles? Anyway, it's at chicagosports.com if interested.

Uncle_Patrick
06-26-2006, 02:10 PM
A couple things. If you as a fan are calling out Mariotti, what about the fans on places like WSI, who will rip a player or a GM and they never have to face that player or GM? It must be nice to hide behind a keyboard.



Jay Marriotti is in a position to face the people he criticizes (and profits from, since that's how he makes his living), a position that I'm willing to bet the majority of posters on WSI (or any other board) are not in. Jay chooses to avoid the clubhouse and face the players he rips on in his column. IMO, whenever you publicly express your opinion, you should be prepared to defend it. Jay hides away and claims he's in danger.

tebman
06-26-2006, 02:23 PM
I thought Bob Verdi's article was pretty good, although he only implicitly rips Marrioti. He tells of the time Dave Kingman threatened to kill him, how Verdi never told anyone about it, and how, regardless, a writer should be there to 1) get facts on which to base a column, and 2) face the music after ripping an athlete.
Thanks for the tip on Verdi. He spoke common sense about the way to develop an informed opinion: go to the trenches, as he put it. He also pointed out why this nonsense is happening. It's the need of the multiple, 24-hour cable sports channels, websites, and radio stations all hungry for material. So they write about themselves to fill the time and the pages.

He's also correct about not asking Guillen to be any more than what he is: a baseball manager who needs to be corrected about his use of the language.

On top of that, Verdi is a talented writer. There aren't nearly enough of them in the papers right now.

HotelWhiteSox
06-26-2006, 02:46 PM
The Morrisey article was better than this one.

And agree, Mariotti calls Frank the Big Skirt and Latroy Latoya, obviously calling them women and attaching negative connotations to that. Ozzie was also wrong, but I think it was quite clear that his word was not a slight to the gay community and that yes, there are alternate meanings. Still, you can see where or why someone would be offended, but not so sure that the man who has shockingly gone from The Moron to Mr. Morality has reason to talk

SBSoxFan
06-26-2006, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the tip on Verdi. He spoke common sense about the way to develop an informed opinion: go to the trenches, as he put it. He also pointed out why this nonsense is happening. It's the need of the multiple, 24-hour cable sports channels, websites, and radio stations all hungry for material. So they write about themselves to fill the time and the pages.
You're welcome. So, does that mean that we, as frequenters of a sports website, are part of the problem? I'm debating if that should be teal. However, for myself, I know that the forums, talk shows, etc. can become addicting. Basically, it's an addiction to information.

He's also correct about not asking Guillen to be any more than what he is: a baseball manager who needs to be corrected about his use of the language.

I agree. I suppose we put sports figures on too high a pedestal to begin with. I've heard one name mentioned a few times in comparison with Ozzie in all of this --- Charles Barkley. Didn't Barkley say "Just because I can dunk a basketball, doesn't mean I should raise your kids."?

On top of that, Verdi is a talented writer. There aren't nearly enough of them in the papers right now.
In situations like this, writers seem to come out of the woodwork. I was like who's Bob Verdi? But it was nice to read a well written, unemotional, and experiential take on the manager/media relationship.

tebman
06-26-2006, 04:57 PM
You're welcome. So, does that mean that we, as frequenters of a sports website, are part of the problem? I'm debating if that should be teal. However, for myself, I know that the forums, talk shows, etc. can become addicting. Basically, it's an addiction to information.

I agree. I suppose we put sports figures on too high a pedestal to begin with. I've heard one name mentioned a few times in comparison with Ozzie in all of this --- Charles Barkley. Didn't Barkley say "Just because I can dunk a basketball, doesn't mean I should raise your kids."?

In situations like this, writers seem to come out of the woodwork. I was like who's Bob Verdi? But it was nice to read a well written, unemotional, and experiential take on the manager/media relationship.
I suppose we're contributing to the problem by talking about it, but if there's an addiction to information then we're the addicts (to varying degrees), and the inflammatory writers/commentators are the pushers. Actually the websites I was referring to are espn.com, cnnsi.com, chicagosports.com, etc., that need to fill their spaces. It's feeding the beast; stuff has to be shoveled in there continuously whether it's any good or not. Same goes for the radio stations and the cable-TV channels.

To answer your question about Verdi, he's now an occasional writer for the Tribune, though he used to be a regular sportswriter and columnist. I don't know if he's semi-retired, but I miss his regular columns. He genuinely is a good writer. It was good to read his take on all this.

digdagdug23
06-26-2006, 07:42 PM
I was on the radio (yay me!) and defended Ozzie and also brought about the point I made on page 2. Lawrence said I was intelligent off the air, hee!

So glad that I get that station here in little ole' Dubuque.

I also plugged WSI, but they didn't play that part. :tongue:

SOXSINCE'70
06-26-2006, 08:10 PM
A pretty worthless article in my opinion.

Written by a pretty worthless excuse for a journalist.

Corkinator
06-27-2006, 02:12 PM
Yup, if he'd just stuck to calling him a ****ing piece of ****, nothing would have been said by any of the columnists. It's hard to offend ****.


Mod edit: Don't try to evade the language filter. Just type the word you mean and let it do its job. Don't type the first letter of the word and a bunch of stars. TL typed the words you are thinking and the computer did it's job. You should too.

EdHerman12
06-27-2006, 04:51 PM
I just wish Tony Phillips would've kicked Mariotti's ass when he had the chance...

GO SOX!

TornLabrum
06-27-2006, 05:10 PM
I just wish Tony Phillips would've kicked Mariotti's ass when he had the chance...

GO SOX!

Based on the tape that was played at the time, Phillips wanted them to step outside, but Mariotti refused, at least that's how I remember it. The whole thing was absolutely hilarious.