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Thome25
06-25-2006, 09:30 AM
I'm getting sick and tired of all these comparisons by the national media saying that the 2006 Tigers are this year's version of the 2005 White Sox.

The Tigers have been getting fat off a cupcake schedule so far. It seems like everytime we play the good teams with winning records They're playing Kansas City, Tampa Bay, and the Flubs.

The Tigers have all but crapped their pants so far against the elite teams in the AL. They had a bad stretch against the Yankmees, Blow Sawx, and our White Sox.

Sound familiar?

I know its early but, I'm here to go out on a limb and say:

2006 Tigers = 2005 Orioles.


Remember, the 2005 Orioles lead the AL East for a good part of last year and then blew it when it counted. I know, I know. People keep saying that the Tigers pitching is better than the Orioles last year But, I sticking with my opinion.

This is coming from a person who lives in the Orioles market and heard first hand what happened to them last year. The Tigers seem extremely similar to those 2005 Orioles.

Anyone agree/disagree? Let me hear your opinions on this issue and GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ol' No. 2
06-25-2006, 09:35 AM
The Tigers' pitching is much better than the O's pitching last year. The O's got by on slugging, and we have plenty of first-hand experience on where that leads. By this time last year the Orioles were well on their way down the crapper.

Neither are the Tigers the equivalent of last years' Sox team. While better than the 2005 Orioles, their pitching is nowhere near as good as the 2005 White Sox.

Correct answer: C, in between

rainbow6
06-25-2006, 09:44 AM
The 2005 Orioles never even reached 15 games over .500, let alone 25 where the Tigers currently stand. As far as the Tigers "crapping their pants" when they play the elite teams - how did the Sox perform against the Red Sox, A's and Yankees in the regular season last year? Under .500, no?

I think that worked out pretty well for us...

I can't imagine it's very often that a team is first to 50 wins, twenty-five over in June and manages to miss the playoffs.

The Tigers have all but cemented a playoff spot.

Luke

Thome25
06-25-2006, 09:51 AM
The 2005 Orioles never even reached 15 games over .500, let alone 25 where the Tigers currently stand. As far as the Tigers "crapping their pants" when they play the elite teams - how did the Sox perform against the Red Sox, A's and Yankees in the regular season last year? Under .500, no?

I think that worked out pretty well for us...

I can't imagine it's very often that a team is first to 50 wins, twenty-five over in June and manages to miss the playoffs.

The Tigers have all but cemented a playoff spot.

Luke

This isn't meant to be a thread on if the Tigers deserve to be in the playoffs or not.

If they keep winning like they are then they do deserve to be there. If it's the wild card or division champs.

This is more of a thread on if this run that they're on will last or if they'll fade away ala the 2005 Orioles.

My opinion is that they are similar to the 2005 Orioles.

Don't make this into a Tigers vs White Sox debate.

Zisk77
06-25-2006, 09:57 AM
Maybe the Tigers are like the Royals of 2003? Had a surpisingly good year in first for 2/3 of the year. Faded at the ended finished just behind us in 3rd. Gave promise for next year and 2 weeks into the season Pena resigns:o: . This tiger team has better pitching than that Royal team though. I still maintain that the tigers are for real but that their young pitchers (Verlander, Zumya, Robertson, Etc.) will hit a wall come the dog days (the pen is already being overused) and they will stagger in the end. Much like the 2000 Sox who went to the playoffs with no pitching left. Their August schedule is brutal. Of course a couple of trades (Smoltz, lefthanded hitting Of with speed) could change my mind.
:D: I predict 87-91 victories ... wild card?:?: We'll win 100 games.:bandance: The tigers are a year away. 2006 could be real interesting, consider:

We should be loaded, especially if Kenny adds a piece or two, or BA emerges.
McCarthy to rotation and Freddy traded?

Tigers should be loaded - a year stronger and a few changes.

Indians - get a couple of pitchers and shore up defense.

Twins - add someone to Santana, Liriano, & Bonser (is Radke done?) with some good young talent could be scary in a 2005 sox way.

Royals - well someon's got to suck.

SOXintheBURGH
06-25-2006, 10:28 AM
I lived in the Orioles market last season until about Labor Day.

Trust me, the Tigers are much better than the Orioles of last year.

rainbow6
06-25-2006, 10:31 AM
This isn't meant to be a thread on if the Tigers deserve to be in the playoffs or not.

If they keep winning like they are then they do deserve to be there. If it's the wild card or division champs.

This is more of a thread on if this run that they're on will last or if they'll fade away ala the 2005 Orioles.

My opinion is that they are similar to the 2005 Orioles.

Don't make this into a Tigers vs White Sox debate.

Your initial post featured giant letters saying 2006 Tigers = 2005 Orioles. The 2005 Orioles started out in first place and failed to make the playoffs. Please excuse me if I missed your point about this not being a thread about the Tigers making the playoffs...

And again, the Orioles never had far to fade last year so comparing them to the Tigers is not valid. Head on over to baseballreference.com to refresh your memory and you may never type "Orioles" and "Tigers" in the same post again.

Also, I wasn't making this a Tigers VS. Whitesox thread - you made a point of complaining about the Tigers cupcake schedule and how they can't compete against the elite teams. I use the Sox as an example of a team that many doubted could compete against the elite teams last year due to their struggles against them.

You are falling into the trap of holding it againt the Tigers that they are beating the lesser teams in the league when that it exactly what they should be lauded for...that's what good teams do! Chances are the better teams are going to go back and forth as far as win and losses throughout the season, so they have to cream the also-rans of the league.

Remember the Sox inability to beat the Tigers a few years ago?

Luke

fusillirob1983
06-25-2006, 10:39 AM
Last year the Orioles had Brian Roberts get off to an amazing start, some starting pitchers completely come out of nowhere, and the rest of their lineup was clicking.

A couple months later...
Roberts cooled down.
Sosa was nowhere to be seen.
Palmeiro - steroids, gone.
And the starting pitchers went back to being terrible.

Detroit's had a pretty good offense the past few years and they've developed some good young pitchers. I don't see their pitchers continuing to pitch as well as they have considering Kenny Rogers usually has bad second halves and Verlander is a rookie, but I won't be surprised to see them in the playoffs.

These teams aren't the same at all.

lumpyspun
06-25-2006, 10:42 AM
I would say last year's Nationals are a better example. But, this thread is stupid so I'm done here.

Thome25
06-25-2006, 10:54 AM
And again, the Orioles never had far to fade last year so comparing them to the Tigers is not valid. Head on over to baseballreference.com to refresh your memory and you may never type "Orioles" and "Tigers" in the same post again.

The O's didn't have very far to fade huh? Correct me if I'm wrong but, the way I remember it the O's were leading the AL East for the first 3-3 1/2 months of last season.

If you are a Tigers fan let me assure you that this thread isn't meant as an attack on the Tigers. I'm just wondering out loud if the Tigers are indeed for real.

I'm not comparing the Tigers to the O's as far as makeup of the two teams goes. I'm comparing them from the standpoint that the O's were the last year's team that faded when it mattered most and gave up their division lead.

I just feel that the Tigers will do the same this year. If the tigers do indeed keep winning the way they have been, then they deserve to be in the playoffs.

I like to have baseball discussions with fans of all teams. If you are indeed a Tiger's fan, don't forget who's site you are on and act respectfully. We should all be able to use this site as an outlet to discuss baseball. White Sox fan or not.

Ol' No. 2
06-25-2006, 11:06 AM
The O's didn't have very far to fade huh? Correct me if I'm wrong but, the way I remember it the O's were leading the AL East for the first 3-3 1/2 months of last season.

If you are a Tigers fan let me assure you that this thread isn't meant as an attack on the Tigers. I'm just wondering out loud if the Tigers are indeed for real.

I'm not comparing the Tigers to the O's as far as makeup of the two teams goes. I'm comparing them from the standpoint that the O's were the last year's team that faded when it mattered most and gave up their division lead.

I just feel that the Tigers will do the same this year. If the tigers do indeed keep winning the way they have been, then they deserve to be in the playoffs.

I like to have baseball discussions with fans of all teams. If you are indeed a Tiger's fan, don't forget who's site you are on and act respectfully. We should all be able to use this site as an outlet to discuss baseball. White Sox fan or not.You remember wrong.

Thome25
06-25-2006, 11:07 AM
You remember wrong.

I guess I stand corrected. How long did the Orioles lead the AL East? And when did they finally give it up?

Edit: The Orioles led their division last year from April 18th 2005 to June 24th 2005. so for a good 9 weeks they had the lead. I was off by a few weeks. Sorry

Ol' No. 2
06-25-2006, 11:15 AM
I guess I stand corrected. How long did the Orioles lead the AL East? And when did they finally give it up?They in the middle of a 6-game losing streak and were already a game and a half back on this date last year. And they didn't just fade - they cratered. They were 42-32 on June 25. They finished 74-88.

jdm2662
06-25-2006, 11:43 AM
On this date last year, BAL was already out of first place, and had a 42-31 record. Unless they've got a roid boy on their team, I don't see the Tigers going anywhere...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?year=2005&month=6&day=24&submit=Submit+Date

The Tigers are curently 50-25, and have much better pitching. The Sox have won nine games in a row, and the Tigers have yet to give up first place. The same things I keep hearing about the Tigers are the same things Sox fans got upset about last year. The Sox pitching won't hold up. Their offense isn't very good. They have been playing a weak schedule. Sound fimilar? The Tigers are a good team, and you don't play .667 ball at this point in the season on accident. Everyone has been saying they will fade. I've yet to see it. I've been saying it will come down to the Sox-Tigers playing against each other. The unbalanced schedule gives you the chance to take care of business yourself and not worry about other teams. The 1990 White Sox did all they could against Oakland, but no other team could beat them in the season series. I think the Sox will take the series and win the division, but both teams should make the playoffs.

pearso66
06-25-2006, 12:03 PM
I'm not comparing the Tigers to the O's as far as makeup of the two teams goes. I'm comparing them from the standpoint that the O's were the last year's team that faded when it mattered most and gave up their division lead.

I don't know how we are supposed to talk against you if we can't bring up the White Sox, or the makeup of those 2 teams. It was the makeup of the O's last year that made them fade into oblivion. The Tigers are a much better team than that Orioles team was. Unless of course you wanted everyone here to say, yes, you are correct, and that be the end of it?

rainbow6
06-25-2006, 12:03 PM
The O's didn't have very far to fade huh? Correct me if I'm wrong but, the way I remember it the O's were leading the AL East for the first 3-3 1/2 months of last season.

If you are a Tigers fan let me assure you that this thread isn't meant as an attack on the Tigers. I'm just wondering out loud if the Tigers are indeed for real.

I'm not comparing the Tigers to the O's as far as makeup of the two teams goes. I'm comparing them from the standpoint that the O's were the last year's team that faded when it mattered most and gave up their division lead.

I just feel that the Tigers will do the same this year. If the tigers do indeed keep winning the way they have been, then they deserve to be in the playoffs.

I like to have baseball discussions with fans of all teams. If you are indeed a Tiger's fan, don't forget who's site you are on and act respectfully. We should all be able to use this site as an outlet to discuss baseball. White Sox fan or not.

Good god, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? I refered to the White Sox as "us" in my initial post - I don't think you read it very well because I disagreed with your opinon and you shot me down telling me what I can and cannnot post.

You asked for opinions on your initial post comparing the 2005 Orioles to the Tigers and when they didn't mirror yours, you turned nasty.

You should be ashamed.
Luke

DumpJerry
06-25-2006, 12:07 PM
If our game on May 11 was not rained out, we would have gotten victory 50 about 7 hours before the Tigers got theirs yesterday.

Thome25
06-25-2006, 12:10 PM
Good god, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? I refered to the White Sox as "us" in my initial post - I don't think you read it very well because I disagreed with your opinon and you shot me down telling me what I can and cannnot post.

You asked for opinions on your initial post comparing the 2005 Orioles to the Tigers and when they didn't mirror yours, you turned nasty.

You should be ashamed.
Luke

I apologize for that post. The way you were so adamantly fighting for the Tigers I assumed you were a Tigers fan and I shouldn't have.

I do respect your point of view on this issue. I thought your posts were an attack on my point of view and the White Sox.

Again I apologize.

pearso66
06-25-2006, 12:15 PM
I apologize for that post. The way you were so adamantly fighting for the Tigers I assumed you were a Tigers fan and I shouldn't have.

I do respect your point of view on this issue. I thought your posts were an attack on my point of view and the White Sox.

Again I apologize.

So Tiger fans can't argue against you? I understand that this is a Sox site, but you can't rip into anyone for their oppinions. There are a few Sox fans here who think the Tigers are for real and would argue against your statements. Myself included.

Jurr
06-25-2006, 12:21 PM
Eric Bedard, Rodrigo Lopez, and the rest do not equal Bonderman, Rogers, Verlander, and that bunch. The Tigers are a good team. Period. They can pitch their asses off.

The younger guys got a chance to take their lumps for a few years, and now they have a manager that can get the most out of them. They have the bats to compete, and that's all there is to it. Look no further than our Sox to see that changing a clubhouse atmosphere means a lot in this great game.

Jurr
06-25-2006, 12:23 PM
By the way, love the Noob debates. Great stuff.

Thome25
06-25-2006, 12:24 PM
So Tiger fans can't argue against you? I understand that this is a Sox site, but you can't rip into anyone for their oppinions. There are a few Sox fans here who think the Tigers are for real and would argue against your statements. Myself included.

Tigers fans as well as all baseball fans can disagree with me if they want to. I would like to hear the opinions of all baseball fans on this issue. I respect the opinions of all baseball fans on this site. that's why I started this thread.

I wrongly assumed that one of the posters was a disgruntled Tigers fan who was trying to attack my point of view so I attacked back.

I'm sorry to said poster and to anyone else who was offended by anything I said or did.

I just want to have an intelligent baseball conversation about this issue.

Keep the opinions coming and GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!

FloridaTigers
06-25-2006, 12:35 PM
You missed your oppertunity to compare us to the O's. That was when we faced the Yanks/Sox/Sox that week. We were terrible. Now this is where you can tell if the team is for real or not: The for not teams would never recover and fade away. The for real teams just go back to play their really good ball. The Tigers did the latter, thus they are not the Orioles. They depend on good pitching, unlike the O's who depended on hitting.

SOXintheBURGH
06-25-2006, 12:38 PM
You missed your oppertunity to compare us to the O's. That was when we faced the Yanks/Sox/Sox that week. We were terrible. Now this is where you can tell if the team is for real or not: The for not teams would never recover and fade away. The for real teams just go back to play their really good ball. The Tigers did the latter, thus they are not the Orioles. They depend on good pitching, unlike the O's who depended on hitting.

I honestly think the Tigers are a legitimate team. Do I think they're going to make the playoffs? No, and by only maybe a game. Sox, Tigers, NYY, Boston, and Toronto all have chances to make the playoffs, but of those five only three are going in. It's going to be a memorable second half. I actually wouldn't mind meeting up with the Tigers in the ALCS. Two years in a row without Sawx and Spanks would be great.

Jurr
06-25-2006, 12:42 PM
You missed your oppertunity to compare us to the O's. That was when we faced the Yanks/Sox/Sox that week. We were terrible. Now this is where you can tell if the team is for real or not: The for not teams would never recover and fade away. The for real teams just go back to play their really good ball. The Tigers did the latter, thus they are not the Orioles. They depend on good pitching, unlike the O's who depended on hitting.
Your Tigers are far and away better than last year's Orioles. Now, comparing them to the 2005 Sox is a much different story. That's going to be determined later on in the year, when October rolls around. I fear (for Tigers fans) that their main competition towards cementing a strong legacy (like the '05 Sox did) will come from the current version of that same ball club.

The Tigers and Sox match up very well, as evidenced by the close games they've played. So far, the experience that this Sox ballclub possesses has been the deciding factor, and I have the feeling that it will continue to be that way all year.

However, to compare the 2005 Orioles to the 2006 Tigers in the quality of their ballclubs is poppycock. I've said my piece.

FloridaTigers
06-25-2006, 12:47 PM
Our damn bullpen killed our games against the Sox. :mad:

Yet so did our offense. If I recall, a few of the games were 3-2 or 4-3. If only the offense would score atleast two runs in each of those games, well, we might be a little more ahead in the division. :tongue:

Jurr
06-25-2006, 12:50 PM
Our damn bullpen killed our games against the Sox. :mad:

Yet so did our offense. If I recall, a few of the games were 3-2 or 4-3. If only the offense would score atleast two runs in each of those games, well, we might be a little more ahead in the division. :tongue:
That's what a LOT of teams have been saying after leaving series against the White Sox for the last two years.

BTW, it's good to see fans of other ball clubs come onto this board and keep a good competitive attitude about the whole thing. Welcome aboard and enjoy the ride this year!

FloridaTigers
06-25-2006, 12:51 PM
I gotta watch what I say though. I've already been banned. I don't know why, but I guess the mods assumed I was a troll.

Jurr
06-25-2006, 12:53 PM
I gotta watch what I say though. I've already been banned. I don't know why, but I guess the mods assumed I was a troll.
Oh, you're going to be immediately assumed to be a troll. You have to understand that we get a TON of that around here. The Twins and Cubs fans made a habit of it for years.

monkeypants
06-25-2006, 01:12 PM
This year's Tiger team seems more like the 2000 White Sox than either the 2005 White Sox or Orioles.

Well, besides the managers.

sox1970
06-25-2006, 02:10 PM
This year's Tiger team seems more like the 2000 White Sox than either the 2005 White Sox or Orioles.

Well, besides the managers.

I disagree. I think the 2006 Tigers are very much like the 2005 White Sox. They put up a quality start on a regular basis. They don't mash the ball, but they get key hits at the right time. The 2000 White Sox were purely an offensive team. Yes, Cal Eldred and James Baldwin had great first halves, but that team was built around offense.

I think there are too many Sox fans that want to write off the Tigers. I ask why? They're a good team. I hope they hang around all year and we beat them in the ALCS.

The Immigrant
06-25-2006, 02:15 PM
Our damn bullpen killed our games against the Sox. :mad:

Yet so did our offense. If I recall, a few of the games were 3-2 or 4-3. If only the offense would score atleast two runs in each of those games, well, we might be a little more ahead in the division. :tongue:

Right. If only you'd pitched a little better and gotten a few more hits than you did, you would have taken both of those series. :rolleyes:

I want Mags back
06-25-2006, 02:34 PM
Excelent obsevation- Hope you are right:D:

SOXfnNlansing
06-25-2006, 02:50 PM
I just watched the end of the STL/DET sweep. The Tigers are a very good team that do all the little things to keep the pressure on the other team and win consistantly. The Tigers are for real, not a fluke.

diamondhead
06-25-2006, 08:22 PM
I'm getting sick and tired of all these comparisons by the national media saying that the 2006 Tigers are this year's version of the 2005 White Sox.

The Tigers have been getting fat off a cupcake schedule so far. It seems like everytime we play the good teams with winning records They're playing Kansas City, Tampa Bay, and the Flubs.

The Tigers have all but crapped their pants so far against the elite teams in the AL. They had a bad stretch against the Yankmees, Blow Sawx, and our White Sox.

Sound familiar?

I know its early but, I'm here to go out on a limb and say:

2006 Tigers = 2005 Orioles.


Remember, the 2005 Orioles lead the AL East for a good part of last year and then blew it when it counted. I know, I know. People keep saying that the Tigers pitching is better than the Orioles last year But, I sticking with my opinion.

This is coming from a person who lives in the Orioles market and heard first hand what happened to them last year. The Tigers seem extremely similar to those 2005 Orioles.

Anyone agree/disagree? Let me hear your opinions on this issue and GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a Tiger fan and I enjoy reading the White Sox's fan point of view on the Tigers. However,I can't really understand this comparison on this date. A month ago, sure , but right now I think the comparison is way off. It took the Orioles 99 games to win 51 last year. This year's Tigers it took 76.

MrRoboto83
06-26-2006, 02:46 AM
If I had to compare a team to the 2005 Orioles it would be the 2006 Cincinatti Reds. All offense, no pitching. The Tigers are a great baseball team, this could go down as one of the most exciting division races of all time. I am excited the Tigers are doing well. It is nice to see the AL Central proving it is the toughest division in baseball.

Chisox003
06-26-2006, 02:56 AM
If I had to compare a team to the 2005 Orioles it would be the 2006 Cincinatti Reds. All offense, no pitching.
Eh, the Reds don't have GOOD pitching, but the Orioles had TERRIBLE pitching last season.

The Reds have Arroyo and Harang, both decent/good starters.

They also have this kid Elizardo Ramirez who has electric stuff. I've been watching him since they called him up in April and he's getting better every outing.

It's not enough to stay in the race, but their pitching isn't quite that bad.

As for the Tigers, they look like they're here to stay. Comparing their rotation to the Orioles of last year is ridiculous.

DaleJRFan
06-26-2006, 03:00 AM
I'm a Tiger fan and I enjoy reading the White Sox's fan point of view on the Tigers. However,I can't really understand this comparison on this date. A month ago, sure , but right now I think the comparison is way off. It took the Orioles 99 games to win 51 last year. This year's Tigers it took 76.

The Orioles season officially ended with a home-turf four-game sweep via the PaleHose right after the allstar break in 05.

See here: 7/29/05 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/wrap.jsp?ymd=20050729&content_id=1149912&vkey=wrapup2005&fext=.jsp&team=away) 7/30/05 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/wrap.jsp?ymd=20050730&content_id=1150617&vkey=wrapup2005&fext=.jsp&team=away) 7/31/05 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/wrap.jsp?ymd=20050731&content_id=1153329&vkey=wrapup2005&fext=.jsp&team=away) 8/01/05 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/wrap.jsp?ymd=20050801&content_id=1153720&vkey=wrapup2005&fext=.jsp&team=away)

The Tigers 2006 season will end July 18th, 19th & 20th - following a similar sweep at the hands of the PaleHose.

Book it.

pudge
06-26-2006, 12:28 PM
Frankly, I think the 2006 Tigers are better than the 2005 White Sox, just as I think the 2006 White Sox are better than the 2005 White Sox. I think we forget how miraculous all those one-run victories were last year. These 2006 teams have pitching AND great lineups.

Tiger23
06-26-2006, 03:45 PM
Frankly, I think the 2006 Tigers are better than the 2005 White Sox, just as I think the 2006 White Sox are better than the 2005 White Sox. I think we forget how miraculous all those one-run victories were last year. These 2006 teams have pitching AND great lineups.

Genius. Unfortunately I currently think the 2006 White Sox are better than the 2006 Tigers. Upgrade mideason.....get into those playoffs....anything can happen.

Ol' No. 2
06-26-2006, 05:07 PM
Frankly, I think the 2006 Tigers are better than the 2005 White Sox, just as I think the 2006 White Sox are better than the 2005 White Sox. I think we forget how miraculous all those one-run victories were last year. These 2006 teams have pitching AND great lineups.The 2006 Tigers starting rotation is depending on:

1. An ace who is a notorious first-half pitcher,
2. A couple of guys who are pitching way better than anything they've ever done in their lives, and have already started to regress, and
3. A rookie.

The 2005 White Sox had none of these.