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View Full Version : Smoltz to the Tigers???


twinsuck1
06-22-2006, 04:41 PM
I just heard on the score that the Tigers are very likely to trade for John Smoltz. Anyone else hear anything about this, and If so how much do you think this would help Detroit?

patbooyah
06-22-2006, 04:42 PM
I've heard all day that the tigers would pursue him, but nothing for certain. or even likely.

ChiSoxLifer
06-22-2006, 04:43 PM
That would suck. I can see him coming to the AL and having a Rick Sutcliffe-like run because AL hitters aren't familiar with him. I hope they make a trade and his arm falls off.

Hitmen77
06-22-2006, 04:54 PM
Who would Detroit have to trade to get him? Unless Atlanta is following Pittsburgh's gameplan, I doubt they'll give him up for nothing.

getonbckthr
06-22-2006, 04:56 PM
Who would Detroit have to trade to get him? Unless Atlanta is following Pittsburgh's gameplan, I doubt they'll give him up for nothing.
If I were betting I would assume Monroe would be part of the deal with a few prospects.

DaleJRFan
06-22-2006, 04:58 PM
the Score's source was MLBTradeRumors.com, so take it for what its worth.

Ol' No. 2
06-22-2006, 05:02 PM
Who would Detroit have to trade to get him? Unless Atlanta is following Pittsburgh's gameplan, I doubt they'll give him up for nothing.They're going to want solid, young major league-ready players. Prospects alone aren't going to do it. The Braves could use a LF and a 1B, but that's about it for position players. And they could also use pitching. Are the Tiggers going to give up anyone off their roster to fill those positions? I doubt it. As much as Detroit would like to have Smoltz, it's going to be really tough to make this deal and not do more harm than good.

champagne030
06-22-2006, 05:04 PM
I just heard on the score that the Tigers are very likely to trade for John Smoltz. Anyone else hear anything about this, and If so how much do you think this would help Detroit?

Who actually said it? The tools that do the afternoon show? They're just trying to stir up interest and create an illusion that the Sox are ****ed. Smoltz is from Michigan. He recently said he may be open to a trade if he could go to a contender and it would help the Braves out in the long run. If he becomes available there will be plenty of teams interested. The Tigers have some good prospects to deal, but are not as loaded as some teams. The Tigers are usually mentioned as being a buyer at the deadline because the owner will spend the cash, but it's going to take talent, not cash, to acquire Smoltz.

Scottiehaswheels
06-22-2006, 05:06 PM
Isn't Smoltz another Maddux, in that he needs an extra foot of the dish to be effective? Bring him on is what I say.... see if the AL umps give him that much extra plate.. I sincerely doubt it...

NonetheLoaiza
06-22-2006, 05:11 PM
Isn't Smoltz another Maddux, in that he needs an extra foot of the dish to be effective? Bring him on is what I say.... see if the AL umps give him that much extra plate.. I sincerely doubt it...

He does get a large amount of the plate, but IIRC, there are no AL umps. They rotate from league to league.

Ol' No. 2
06-22-2006, 05:14 PM
If I were betting I would assume Monroe would be part of the deal with a few prospects.Not even if you put a gun to Schuerholz' head. It's going to have to be a lot sweeter deal than that.

caulfield12
06-22-2006, 06:05 PM
Miner and Rodney would be where I would start....the Braves have had bullpen issues this year, they need major league ready assistance and young, affordable pitching in return.

munchman33
06-22-2006, 06:05 PM
If I were betting I would assume Monroe would be part of the deal with a few prospects.

That's ludacris.

Try either Zumaya or Verlander to start. And then add 2 or three of the Tigers best prospects.

caulfield12
06-22-2006, 06:23 PM
They would be insane to trade 5 plus affordable years of Verlander or Zumaya to rent a player for 3 months and MAYBE the 2007 season as well.

They have the money, but they won't be trading either of those two.

Maybe Zumaya, but not Verlander.

That would be like the Twins trading Liriano, the Marlins Johnson, Papelbon, Cain of SF, Felix Hernandez, etc.

munchman33
06-22-2006, 06:29 PM
They would be insane to trade 5 plus affordable years of Verlander or Zumaya to rent a player for 3 months and MAYBE the 2007 season as well.

They have the money, but they won't be trading either of those two.

Maybe Zumaya, but not Verlander.

That would be like the Twins trading Liriano, the Marlins Johnson, Papelbon, Cain of SF, Felix Hernandez, etc.

Its been done. But if they want Smoltz, that'll be the price. The Braves don't have to trade Smoltz. They have an option on him for next year.

michned
06-22-2006, 06:56 PM
There was an ESPN.com article a few days ago about this (don't have the link). Basically, it was Smoltz who said if the Braves were inclined to clean house and start over, he would consider a trade. The author then mentioned that Smoltz was a Detroit native and the Tigers would pursue him.

Trav
06-22-2006, 07:08 PM
I like the thought of this from a baseball fan's point of view. If they were to grab him for a decent price it would give the Tigers a classy guy who has "been" there before for their pitching staff. It would be a nasty rotation. Almost on par with ours. If this were a few years ago I wouldn't want the trade to go down but I feel that we can hold our own in a pennant race. I welcome the competition. I hope they get him. Although, I don't think Southern Linc works in Detroit.

gobears1987
06-22-2006, 08:59 PM
That would suck. I can see him coming to the AL and having a Rick Sutcliffe-like run because AL hitters aren't familiar with him. I hope they make a trade and his arm falls off.I see it as more likely that he comes to the AL and gets shelled as AL hitters are far better than anyone in the NL.

samram
06-22-2006, 09:09 PM
I heard when Boers mentioned the rumor and he said that the Tigers were a team interested in getting him- he didn't say it was "very likely."

If they want him, they can start with Verlander. The Braves rotation sucks.

caulfield12
06-22-2006, 09:23 PM
The Tigers are also looking at Aubrey Huff as a DH candidate. I think that move is much more likely than Verlander or Zumaya going anywhere.

Brian26
06-22-2006, 11:04 PM
the Score's source was MLBTradeRumors.com, so take it for what its worth.

Not worth anything then.

munchman33
06-22-2006, 11:27 PM
The Tigers are also looking at Aubrey Huff as a DH candidate. I think that move is much more likely than Verlander or Zumaya going anywhere.

With the way the Devil Rays have been with trading players the last few years, they still might have to give up Zumaya just to sniff Huff.

California Sox
06-22-2006, 11:50 PM
Kittens also have a hard-throwing Zumaya clone in Humberto Sanchez who would be very attractive to the ATL. It would be a full circle sort of thing in that Detroit gave up Smoltz for half a season of Doyle Alexander.

santo=dorf
06-23-2006, 12:08 AM
Miner and Rodney would be where I would start....the Braves have had bullpen issues this year, they need major league ready assistance and young, affordable pitching in return.
The Braves traded Minor for Farnsworth last year. They are in no hurry to get him back.

Think about this; In exchange for Javy Vazquez, the D'Backs asked for Granderson and Verlander/Zumaya.
Supposedly the Marlins had an offer of Verlander and Granderson for Willis.

What makes any of you think the Braves would give up John Smoltz for Rodney, Monroe, and/or one of their old prospects? :rolleyes:

Tragg
06-23-2006, 05:48 AM
Rodney, Monroe, and/or one of their old prospects? :rolleyes:
Maybe not their old prospects, but for a less than stellar package....because he's almost 40 and the Braves are terrible now and he's not having a great year and because Braves management is realistic.

harwar
06-23-2006, 07:38 AM
Smoltz was interviewed during the sunday night espn game and he was the one who brought up the tigers when they asked him about possible trades.
It seemed to me,that with the way he was talking,that he would love to go to the tigers at this point of his career as its where he grew up.

getonbckthr
06-23-2006, 06:52 PM
Well Johnny just left his start with an injury.

Jurr
06-23-2006, 07:53 PM
Smoltz has been having hammy problems, and it acted up yet again tonight.

mike detroit
06-23-2006, 08:56 PM
I don't see it happening. it might be misdirection, but in several interviews i've heard with Dave Dombrowski, it seems like a media generated rumor. if the tigers are making a big trade, it's for the big left handed bat. they're pretty happy with the pitching.(Maroth started practicing again today)

StockdaleForVeep
06-23-2006, 09:31 PM
Smoltz has stated he would take a trade to a playoff\1st place team, and would prefer detroit, being the team that drafted him

The talk is that zumaya and some other young prospect\players for smoltz and smoltz could become a closer again

mike detroit
06-23-2006, 09:34 PM
Smoltz has stated he would take a trade to a playoff\1st place team, and would prefer detroit, being the team that drafted him

The talk is that zumaya and some other young prospect\players for smoltz and smoltz could become a closer again

Dombrowski specifically said in an interview today that it would take an amazing offer to even interest him in trading zumaya.

oeo
06-23-2006, 11:03 PM
Dombrowski specifically said in an interview today that it would take an amazing offer to even interest him in trading zumaya.

I've got a question...is Zumaya really going to be that good? Be honest. From what I've seen, he overuses his fastball, and eventually he'll get crushed.

mike detroit
06-23-2006, 11:13 PM
I've got a question...is Zumaya really going to be that good? Be honest. From what I've seen, he overuses his fastball, and eventually he'll get crushed.

he's young, and at this point, yes. he overuses his fastball a lot. it's great, don't get me wrong, i saw him get up to 102 with that thing. but yeah, that's why verlander's starting and zumaya is a reliever. his curve can be absolutely devestating, or at other times, it not there at all. until he gets better control of multiple pitches, he's in the bullpen. remember, this guy's been a starter his whole career untill now. he wants to be a starter again. but right now, he needs to work on his other pitches. the tigers organization, though, seems to have confidence that he can, at the moment.

getonbckthr
06-23-2006, 11:15 PM
I've got a question...is Zumaya really going to be that good? Be honest. From what I've seen, he overuses his fastball, and eventually he'll get crushed.
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7630.jpg===================http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6210.jpg

mike detroit
06-23-2006, 11:23 PM
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/7630.jpg===================http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6210.jpg

almost 1400 posts and you can't offer better analysis than that? weak.

getonbckthr
06-23-2006, 11:26 PM
almost 1400 posts and you can't offer better analysis than that? weak.
To be honest I felt that comparison pretty much spoke for itself. The same way your describing Zumaya is what the Cubs said about Farnsworth. Great fastball needs to develop his breaking ball. That was what 4-5 years ago. I'm not sure if it developed yet.

mike detroit
06-23-2006, 11:38 PM
To be honest I felt that comparison pretty much spoke for itself. The same way your describing Zumaya is what the Cubs said about Farnsworth. Great fastball needs to develop his breaking ball. That was what 4-5 years ago. I'm not sure if it developed yet.

jesus, i would hope your understanding of baseball went beyond thinking you could compare rookies to old men. come on, I'm not trying to talk trash here, I'm trying to talk baseball. bring something to the table that's not ridiculously retarded.

Vernam
06-24-2006, 12:51 AM
Smoltz left tonight's game with a pulled groin, fwiw.

Hard to believe Detroit gets credit for a full victory when they only beat St. Louis 10 to 6. :cool:

Vernam

Brian26
06-24-2006, 12:55 AM
Think about this; In exchange for Javy Vazquez, the D'Backs asked for Granderson and Verlander/Zumaya.
Supposedly the Marlins had an offer of Verlander and Granderson for Willis.

What makes any of you think the Braves would give up John Smoltz for Rodney, Monroe, and/or one of their old prospects? :rolleyes:

Especially if one of their old prospects is Doyle Alexander. :D:

munchman33
06-24-2006, 01:39 AM
jesus, i would hope your understanding of baseball went beyond thinking you could compare rookies to old men. come on, I'm not trying to talk trash here, I'm trying to talk baseball. bring something to the table that's not ridiculously retarded.

The comparison is apt. Their stuff is very similar. Zumaya hasn't yet developed another pitch he can throw for strikes. Until then, he is Kyle Farnsworth.

mike detroit
06-24-2006, 08:18 AM
The comparison is apt. Their stuff is very similar. Zumaya hasn't yet developed another pitch he can throw for strikes. Until then, he is Kyle Farnsworth.

spoken like someone that has never seen his curve when it's on. true, he hasn't fully developed it yet, it's on and off. but he certainly shows the prospect of being able to do so, which is why i think the age thing is a consideration. what are the chances of farnsworth developing another pitch at this point in his career, what are the chances of zumaya eventually getting his curveball consistant? that's why the comparison sucks.

Ol' No. 2
06-24-2006, 09:33 AM
I've got a question...is Zumaya really going to be that good? Be honest. From what I've seen, he overuses his fastball, and eventually he'll get crushed.A reliever can get away with overusing his fastball, especially if it has good movement. These batters aren't going to see him again. Lots of starters rely heavily on their fastball the first time through the order.

champagne030
06-24-2006, 10:02 AM
spoken like someone that has never seen his curve when it's on. true, he hasn't fully developed it yet, it's on and off. but he certainly shows the prospect of being able to do so, which is why i think the age thing is a consideration. what are the chances of farnsworth developing another pitch at this point in his career, what are the chances of zumaya eventually getting his curveball consistant? that's why the comparison sucks.

Yes, nobody would trade Zumaya for Farnsworth today. I think the point is that at a similar point is his career, Farnsworth was comparable to Zumaya. A fantastic fastball and great slider that he couldn't fully command. He still cannot command it and never reached the success people had predicted. Unless Zumaya can command his curve he's a one trick pony (still a great trick) and will not reach the level of success predicted. Yes, he's still young with plenty of time to gain the command needed and with Farnsworth it's WYSIWYG. Today Zumaya = Farnsworth. Next year maybe he's better or maybe not....

caulfield12
06-24-2006, 10:02 AM
Zumaya is much closer to Jenks.

They both spent much of their minor league career as starters. And Zumaya is only 21 years old.

If you want to compare Farnsworth to anyone, Billy Koch or Matt Anderson would be better examples, although Farnsworth is probably a couple of MPH off their top average fastball clockings before injuries.

oeo
06-24-2006, 10:16 AM
A reliever can get away with overusing his fastball, especially if it has good movement. These batters aren't going to see him again. Lots of starters rely heavily on their fastball the first time through the order.
Isn't the plan to make Zumaya a starter, though? Or am I missing something?

I think, eventually, even in a relievers role, if he cannot get another pitch over for a strike consistently, he's going to get nailed. Look at Jenks...if his curve ball is working, he's nearly unhittable, if it's not, we may be in a little trouble. MLB hitters are going to catch on to his tendencies, and if Zumaya can't get his breaking ball over for a strike consistently, he's going to be in trouble.

mike detroit
06-24-2006, 11:34 AM
Yes, nobody would trade Zumaya for Farnsworth today. I think the point is that at a similar point is his career, Farnsworth was comparable to Zumaya. A fantastic fastball and great slider that he couldn't fully command. He still cannot command it and never reached the success people had predicted. Unless Zumaya can command his curve he's a one trick pony (still a great trick) and will not reach the level of success predicted. Yes, he's still young with plenty of time to gain the command needed and with Farnsworth it's WYSIWYG. Today Zumaya = Farnsworth. Next year maybe he's better or maybe not....

well, if that's the point then yes, I can see that. still, I don't see the worth of it. we all know already that farnsworth never was able to get over that hurdle. to compare that to someone that still verywell might is not very useful.

mike detroit
06-24-2006, 11:37 AM
Isn't the plan to make Zumaya a starter, though? Or am I missing something?

I think, eventually, even in a relievers role, if he cannot get another pitch over for a strike consistently, he's going to get nailed. Look at Jenks...if his curve ball is working, he's nearly unhittable, if it's not, we may be in a little trouble. MLB hitters are going to catch on to his tendencies, and if Zumaya can't get his breaking ball over for a strike consistently, he's going to be in trouble.

that's kind of up in the air. no one really knows if zumaya can be a mlb starter yet. right now, no he can't. he was a starter all through the minors, but that's true for most of the mlb relievers right now. he has the stamina to do it, but he needs to expands his pitches if he wants to start.

FloridaTigers
06-24-2006, 04:06 PM
Isn't the plan to make Zumaya a starter, though? Or am I missing something?

I think, eventually, even in a relievers role, if he cannot get another pitch over for a strike consistently, he's going to get nailed. Look at Jenks...if his curve ball is working, he's nearly unhittable, if it's not, we may be in a little trouble. MLB hitters are going to catch on to his tendencies, and if Zumaya can't get his breaking ball over for a strike consistently, he's going to be in trouble.

The thing here is that many of you Sox fans don't see Zumaya on the almost daily basis that we Tigers fans do. Zumaya over the year has developed a sick breaking ball. The only flaw I see in Zumaya is his control. He's wild at times, but not to the point of Farnsworth. If he can just fix his control a bit, he'll be even nastier. I'd want Zumaya as a starter, but two things remain.

1) DD and Leyland have brainwashed him into being a reliever.
2) If he were to start, would he still have nasty stuff after the 2nd inning?