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View Full Version : Guillen/Riske Suspensions


Harry Potter
06-22-2006, 12:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2496470

Official: 1 for Ozzie, 3 for Riske

ilsox7
06-22-2006, 12:58 PM
No surprise in the sad state that MLB is in.

EDIT: And the lesson MLB gives is to hit a couple guys from the other team first.

oeo
06-22-2006, 12:59 PM
Why does Ozzie get 2 games? I believe Torre only got 1 game from last week's incident with the Indians.

And nothing for Ponson...the instigator never gets anything. What a joke.

hawkjt
06-22-2006, 01:01 PM
I heard Levine opine yesterday it would likely be one game for both.

This stinks. I can live with one for ozzie and maybe two for riske but this seems excessive.

Hopefully this is not confirmed.

RowanDye
06-22-2006, 01:01 PM
If this is true, which coming off the Levine-line it may not be, I think it is total crap. Although as long as there is not an additional suspension for Ozzie's comments about Moronotti I will be ok with this. The media circus alone over Ozzie the past 2 weeks has nearly forced MLB's hand.

Trav
06-22-2006, 01:02 PM
Why does Ozzie get 2 games? I believe Torre only got 1 game from last week's incident with the Indians.

And nothing for Ponson...the instigator never gets anything. What a joke.

Two games is a surprise. Posnon wasn't warned. He didn't get tossed. No reason to suspend him.

oeo
06-22-2006, 01:05 PM
Two games is a surprise. Posnon wasn't warned. He didn't get tossed. No reason to suspend him.
No suspension, but he should at least be fined. The Sox shouldn't have been warned either, they didn't do anything wrong. They should have been warned after Riske retaliated, not after Ponson gets two free shots.

voodoochile
06-22-2006, 01:06 PM
I heard Levine opine yesterday it would likely be one game for both.

This stinks. I can live with one for ozzie and maybe two for riske but this seems excessive.

Hopefully this is not confirmed.

They are probably trying to send a message that this kind of stuff will not be tolerated, but also pitcher suspensions tend to be longer because of how they are used. If Riske only had a two game suspension, the Sox could just drop their appeal after using him three straight days and it probably wouldn't affect their bullpen in the slightests. Three games pretty much forces him to miss at least one game he would have been available for.

itsnotrequired
06-22-2006, 01:09 PM
Two games for Ozzie? I think it should be one.

"send a message", my ass. ilsox7 nailed it. The message is to hit the other guy first.

rdwj
06-22-2006, 01:09 PM
That's pretty much what I expected - perhaps one too many for Ozzie

Sad
06-22-2006, 01:12 PM
will these start with tonight's game then?
or can they appeal and not have to sit for 4 weeks like Barrett?

sox230
06-22-2006, 01:12 PM
So, I guess if you want to hit someone, as long as you hit them first, the same team can continue to hit them as many times as you want. However, if the other teams does t once in revenge, that's a no-no. Are you suprised? This is the same MLB that took 1 month to decide on Barrett, yet did so just in time so he could be ready for the Sox series.

voodoochile
06-22-2006, 01:12 PM
Two games for Ozzie? I think it should be one.

"send a message", my ass. ilsox7 nailed it. The lesson is to hit the other guy first.

Well, Ozzie probably got the extra game because he not only ordered the retaliation, but did it AFTER being warned not to.

He basically told the umps to go **** themselves.

Oh and for the record, I'm glad he did, but I can understand why the powers that be are frowning on it.

Trav
06-22-2006, 01:14 PM
No suspension, but he should at least be fined. The Sox shouldn't have been warned either, they didn't do anything wrong. They should have been warned after Riske retaliated, not after Ponson gets two free shots.

I am all for less MLB involvment so I can't really say I agree with a fine for Ponson. I do agree that something needs to change with the way umps warn teams.

Voodoo, I agree. Randy Johnson was suspended for 4 games. If the yankees are smart he will apeal untill the day after his next start and never miss a start.

I think something needs to be done about that as well. You shouldn't be able to choose your dates that you are suspended. Add that to the piss poor way the MLB decides to hear a case and you have a very ineffective way to rule a league.

If only this was MLB's greatest concern...

HotelWhiteSox
06-22-2006, 01:15 PM
will these start with tonight's game then?
or can they appeal and not have to sit for 4 weeks like Barrett?

If confirmed, Ozzie can't appeal and has to do it right away. I say just get it over with, better to do it against scrubby NL teams

And yes, MLB is a joke. Can they get anything right in their rulebooks?

Chicken Dinner
06-22-2006, 01:15 PM
will these start with tonight's game then?
or can they appeal and not have to sit for 4 weeks like Barrett?

No appeals for coaches and managers.

voodoochile
06-22-2006, 01:16 PM
I am all for less MLB involvment so I can't really say I agree with a fine for Ponson. I do agree that something needs to change with the way umps warn teams.

Voodoo, I agree. Randy Johnson was suspended for 4 games. If the yankees are smart he will apeal untill the day after his next start and never miss a start.

I think something needs to be done about that as well. You shouldn't be able to choose your dates that you are suspended. Add that to the piss poor way the MLB decides to hear a case and you have a very ineffective way to rule a league.

If only this was MLB's greatest concern...

That's unusual. I thought starting pitchers were always suspended for at least 5 games because of this exact issue.

Trav
06-22-2006, 01:17 PM
will these start with tonight's game then?
or can they appeal and not have to sit for 4 weeks like Barrett?

Only players have the right to apeal. Riske can apeal and then drop it whenever he feels like it or apeal and have it heard whenever MLB decides to fly to Chicago and hear his case.

Trav
06-22-2006, 01:19 PM
That's unusual. I thought starting pitchers were always suspended for at least 5 games because of this exact issue.

Well I have been known to have a brain fart (Brian McCarthy) but I thought he only got 4. I am sure someone will show me the light if I am wrong.

kobo
06-22-2006, 01:22 PM
We may as well just get used to how MLB does things because I honestly believe they will never change. The only thing I hate is the appeal process. There shouldn't be one. You get suspended, you serve it, end of story.

And I agree with Voodoo about why Ozzie is getting 2 games, but it probably also has to do with the remark he made the other day. Oh well, serve the suspension and get back to business.

ilsox7
06-22-2006, 01:24 PM
Well I have been known to have a brain fart (Brian McCarthy) but I thought he only got 4. I am sure someone will show me the light if I am wrong.

He got 5 and dropped his appeal earlier this week.

Trav
06-22-2006, 01:28 PM
He got 5 and dropped his appeal earlier this week.
Thank you. Sorry Voodoo. You were right once again...

spawn
06-22-2006, 01:28 PM
Ozzie said he was expecting a suspension, and that he was ok with that.

How many days did Ponson get for starting it all?

itsnotrequired
06-22-2006, 01:28 PM
We may as well just get used to how MLB does things because I honestly believe they will never change. The only thing I hate is the appeal process. There shouldn't be one. You get suspended, you serve it, end of story.

The players union would never go for it.

Harry Potter
06-22-2006, 01:29 PM
Brian McCarthy?

Trav
06-22-2006, 01:33 PM
Brian McCarthy?


Yeah, that was me. :redface:

TDog
06-22-2006, 01:39 PM
Retaliation is, in the view of many, a worse act than the original offense because more the retaliating team has had time to contemplate its actions and (in this case) had been warned. Still, you can't charge the mound because you'll get suspended. When you do nothing, everyone writes columns about what wimps you are. When you respond, they write columns about how you're evil.

Ozzie will have to watch the game from home and have the dugout on speed dial.

The game Ozuna ended with a bunt came after Guillen's suspension, didn't it?

infohawk
06-22-2006, 01:43 PM
Riske will probably serve his suspension when Cliff returns from the DL (if he hasn't already). I find it strange that MLB makes a decision within two days of the beaning incident but it took forever to hand down the initial 10 game suspension on Barrett for slugging A.J. What gives?

Edit: I suppose my above comments only ring true if MLB issues an official statement soon. I forgot that the report was coming from Bruce Levine and not MLB.

Jaffar
06-22-2006, 01:43 PM
The Duke, Dan Davis just reposrted it is 1 game for Ozzie during the sportsencter update on ESPN 1000, I guess we need to see an official report.

ilsox7
06-22-2006, 01:44 PM
Riske will probably serve his suspension when Cliff returns from the DL (if he hasn't already). I find it strange that MLB makes a decision within two days of the beaning incident but it took forever to hand down the initial 10 game suspension on Barrett for slugging A.J. What gives?

The people running MLB are a joke. Simple as that.

WSox8404
06-22-2006, 01:45 PM
I believe anything that the Duke says over Levineline anyday. It should be only one day for Ozzie. That is the track record for managers.

Ol' No. 2
06-22-2006, 01:47 PM
Retaliation is, in the view of many, a worse act than the original offense because more the retaliating team has had time to contemplate its actions and (in this case) had been warned. Still, you can't charge the mound because you'll get suspended. When you do nothing, everyone writes columns about what wimps you are. When you respond, they write columns about how you're evil.

Ozzie will have to watch the game from home and have the dugout on speed dial.

The game Ozuna ended with a bunt came after Guillen's suspension, didn't it?That makes sense in theory, but in practice you run into a problem. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that the rule seems to be that you can plunk as many batters as you want as long as you do it first. If the other team nails one of yours, they get tossed and suspended.

BadgerChisox
06-22-2006, 01:49 PM
The White are the world Champs and a target. Ozzie has to do this to stop this from happening in the future.

mcfish
06-22-2006, 01:49 PM
Are suspended players suspended without pay? I am guessing that is not the case, but if so, the disconnect between SP suspensions being 5 games vs. other players 1 or 3 would be unfair financially.

Rikirk
06-22-2006, 01:58 PM
Its completely bogus. "Pontoon" gets noting for plunking, yet the Sox get the penalty for defending themselves.

Bud Selig need to be hung up by his toenails and used as a Pinata.:angry:

havelj
06-22-2006, 02:08 PM
Per the Score, official:
1 for Ozzie
3 for Riske

rdwj
06-22-2006, 02:08 PM
The Duke, Dan Davis just reposrted it is 1 game for Ozzie during the sportsencter update on ESPN 1000, I guess we need to see an official report.

The Score is reporting 1 game for Ozzie - 3 for Riske

SoxFan78
06-22-2006, 02:11 PM
Thats along the lines I expected. About equal to the New York Yankees suspensions a week ago.

Iwritecode
06-22-2006, 02:12 PM
That's unusual. I thought starting pitchers were always suspended for at least 5 games because of this exact issue.

I still don't think suspending a starter for 5 games really does much. That just means he'll get 5 days of rest between starts instead of the usual 4. Not a big deal considering that happens everytime they have an off day. They just stick him in to pitch on the sixth day and the rest of the rotation will get bumped back another day.

They'd have to suspend a starter at least 7 or 8 games to really cause them to miss a start.

Sargeant79
06-22-2006, 02:20 PM
I still don't think suspending a starter for 5 games really does much. That just means he'll get 5 days of rest between starts instead of the usual 4. Not a big deal considering that happens everytime they have an off day. They just stick him in to pitch on the sixth day and the rest of the rotation will get bumped back another day.

They'd have to suspend a starter at least 7 or 8 games to really cause them to miss a start.

While that is an option, many managers choose to have the suspended pitcher's start skipped rather than bumping the rotation in order to not disrupt the long-toss/bullpen session/etc. rhythm of the other pitchers. However, your suggestion makes far more sense if the manager wants to limit the damage the suspension does. At best, the suspension is still an inconvenience that forces some adjustment.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-22-2006, 02:25 PM
They get to hit TWO players, no problem. We hit one and get screwed. Just makes no sense.

voodoochile
06-22-2006, 02:42 PM
I still don't think suspending a starter for 5 games really does much. That just means he'll get 5 days of rest between starts instead of the usual 4. Not a big deal considering that happens everytime they have an off day. They just stick him in to pitch on the sixth day and the rest of the rotation will get bumped back another day.

They'd have to suspend a starter at least 7 or 8 games to really cause them to miss a start.

5 games not 5 days, so he misses a start any way you slice it.

Ol' No. 2
06-22-2006, 02:47 PM
5 games not 5 days, so he misses a start any way you slice it.I think his point was that they could just push his next start back a day. They don't have to go around the rotation again. Also, if they have an off day they could skip his start with all the other starters working on normal rest.

nasox
06-22-2006, 02:53 PM
Anybody have HBP stats for the sox and for their opponents since Ozzie became manager? And what about this year?

Iwritecode
06-22-2006, 02:56 PM
I think his point was that they could just push his next start back a day. They don't have to go around the rotation again. Also, if they have an off day they could skip his start with all the other starters working on normal rest.

Exactly. Worst case the suspended pitcher might have 6 days between starts.

All they have to do is appeal the suspension and then drop the appeal when the schedule suits them.

spiffie
06-22-2006, 03:21 PM
I hope someone on the Cards get plunked tonight in the 1st inning. And if the umps don't issue a warning for it I hope we put someone down in the 2nd. Then when they issue a warning finally we can go to the plate and crowd it since if we even get brushed back their guy will get thrown out.

fuzzy_patters
06-22-2006, 03:27 PM
What MLB misses in all of this is that they are encouraging pitchers to throw at hitters. The policy of only punishing the team that retaliates encourages second place teams to start bean ball wars.

Here is a hypothetical situation. Let's say that the Phillies trail the Mets by a couple of games in September, and they are about to start a series with them. Pedro Martinez is scheduled to pitch in game one for the Mets against the Phillies' fifth starter. It would benefit the Phillies to plunk a couple of batters in the first inning. They will not be punished for it, but when Pedro retaliates, he will be ejected and suspended for awhile. If Pedro does not take the bait, there will still have been Mets batters intentionally hit by pitches with no retaliation. In this case, hitting batters becomes a strategy to winning divisions, and the Phillies are encouraged to go out and throw at hitters.

mrs. hendu
06-22-2006, 03:34 PM
So, I guess if you want to hit someone, as long as you hit them first, the same team can continue to hit them as many times as you want. However, if the other teams does t once in revenge, that's a no-no. Are you suprised? This is the same MLB that took 1 month to decide on Barrett, yet did so just in time so he could be ready for the Sox series.
I couldn't agree more with your post. That pretty much sums it up.

DickAllen72
06-22-2006, 03:53 PM
They get to hit TWO players, no problem. We hit one and get screwed. Just makes no sense.

What's more, they drilled two players in bad spots, where serious injury was possible. Riske hit Duncan in the ass, which is the safest place to get hit.

DickAllen72
06-22-2006, 03:56 PM
Anybody have HBP stats for the sox and for their opponents since Ozzie became manager? And what about this year?

I just saw that stat somewhere. It think it was something like 176 Sox HBP as opposed to 123 opponents, somewhere in that area.

Sorry for being so vague, but I can't remember where I read that.

thomas35forever
06-22-2006, 04:00 PM
What's more, they drilled two players in bad spots, where serious injury was possible. Riske hit Duncan in the ass, which is the safest place to get hit.
What about on the helmet? Btw, this'll be the second time since Ozzie took over that I'll be at a game and he won't be managing. I remember Harold managing a game against the Tigers back in '04.

Corlose 15
06-22-2006, 04:05 PM
People have pretty much nailed how I feel about this already. It makes no sense to me to warn a team when they've done nothing wrong. Wait til both teams have been hit then issue the warning. Stop taking it out of the teams hands and overpolicing.

DickAllen72
06-22-2006, 04:10 PM
What about on the helmet?

Was that supposed to be in teal? You could kill a guy or seriously injure him by beaning him in the helmet. Anyone who would intentionally throw a fastball at a guy's head is a criminal and should be suspended from baseball for life.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2006, 04:10 PM
As usual Levine is wrong (why am I not surprised...)

It's one game for Ozzie.

Lip

gf2020
06-22-2006, 04:32 PM
I hope someone on the Cards get plunked tonight in the 1st inning. And if the umps don't issue a warning for it I hope we put someone down in the 2nd. Then when they issue a warning finally we can go to the plate and crowd it since if we even get brushed back their guy will get thrown out.

I'd rather not give them base runners for free early in the game and you know, beat their butts 20-3 than engaging them in pettiness.

TheOldRoman
06-22-2006, 04:40 PM
Here is the beauty of the whole thing:
Ejections are at the umpire's discretion. The whole "warning" bull**** is nice and dandy, but umpires don't need to have issued warnings in order to throw a pitcher out. Ponson intentionally hit two of our batters. There was no doubt he did it on purpose. He should have been thrown out after the second batter, whether or not warnings were already issued.
And because no warnings need to be issued, the Sox are double screwed. For instance, if Freddy went out and drilled Eckstein to lead off the game, he would probably get tossed, even though no warnings were issued. If the Sox "start it" more than once, they will get the reputation among umpires as instigators, and they will start throwing us out with no warnings.

Now that Ozzie has been suspended, this is only going to get worse. MUCH worse. Every team we face knows what happened. Every team will be able to throw at us. They will get away with it, but we will get ejected/suspended if we start it or retalliate. Ozzie got suspended 1 game for doing the right thing. If the same thing happens a week from now (Sox get pelted, and tossed after we retalliate), Ozzie might get 5 games. 10 on the third time. All the while, the other teams will face no discipline for starting it with us. MLB made the target on our hitters and Ozzie much bigger. Every team will challenge us now. This is going to get really, really ugly.

MLB at its finest.

swanson24
06-22-2006, 04:44 PM
Who is managing tonight for the White Sox? Baines?

MRM
06-22-2006, 05:43 PM
That's unusual. I thought starting pitchers were always suspended for at least 5 games because of this exact issue.

RJ did get 5 games. And why is everyone talking about a two game suspension for Ozzie? Everything I read today said 1 game for Oz and 3 games for Riske.

SBSoxFan
06-22-2006, 05:45 PM
I just saw that stat somewhere. It think it was something like 176 Sox HBP as opposed to 123 opponents, somewhere in that area.

Sorry for being so vague, but I can't remember where I read that.

I thought I heard similar numbers on the post game radio show(?).

LongLiveFisk
06-22-2006, 05:49 PM
Meanwhile, the putz that hit A.J. TWICE and PURPOSELY didn't get so much as a warning. What a joke. You suck, MLB!!

Trav
06-22-2006, 05:52 PM
RJ did get 5 games. And why is everyone talking about a two game suspension for Ozzie? Everything I read today said 1 game for Oz and 3 games for Riske.

Read the thread.

MadetoOrta
06-22-2006, 06:20 PM
ESPN.com is reporting Ozzie is suspended from tonight's game with NO APPEAL ALLOWED. Now, I'm pissed!:angry: :angry: :angry:

slobes
06-22-2006, 06:24 PM
I don't think managers are ever allowed to appeal

oeo
06-22-2006, 06:25 PM
ESPN.com is reporting Ozzie is suspended from tonight's game with NO APPEAL ALLOWED. Now, I'm pissed!:angry: :angry: :angry:
There's already a thread on this; it's for the beanball incident. And coaches can never appeal a suspension.

JB98
06-22-2006, 06:25 PM
I don't think managers are ever allowed to appeal

Right you are. Coaches can't appeal either, as we learned with Joey Cora's suspension after the Cubs brawl.

CLR01
06-22-2006, 06:31 PM
ESPN.com is reporting Ozzie is suspended from tonight's game with NO APPEAL ALLOWED. Now, I'm pissed!:angry: :angry: :angry:



I guess the thread titled Guillen/Riske suspension isn't obvious enough. Open your eyes and look around before starting threads. :rolleyes: