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Brian26
06-17-2006, 08:22 PM
Won another series too.
9 out of the last 12.

Unregistered
06-17-2006, 08:23 PM
Bobby made it interesting, but closed the door before it got out of control.

Keep winning.

:supernana:

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:23 PM
How can a guy make it to the major leagues and still not know better than to slide into first base?

:dumbass:

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2006, 08:23 PM
Whew!!

That was a bit scary towards the end.

:o:

Hitmen77
06-17-2006, 08:23 PM
Whew!!!!!

Question: Why make Mackowiak a defensive substitution for Anderson in the 9th? :?:

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:23 PM
WTG Sox! Great comeback win. Good pressure pitching by Baaad Bobby Jenks in the 9th!

One question *** was Mackowiak doing in CF for Brian Anderson in the 9th??? Is Ozzie effing stupid or what???

itsnotrequired
06-17-2006, 08:24 PM
How can a guy make it to the major leagues and still not know better than to slide into first base?

:dumbass:

You got something against Pete Rose?:redneck

I luuuuv insurance runs.

:bandance::bandance::bandance:

drftnaway
06-17-2006, 08:24 PM
WTG Sox! Great comeback win. Good pressure pitching by Baaad Bobby Jenks in the 9th!

One question *** was Mackowiak doing in CF for Brian Anderson in the 9th??? Is Ozzie effing stupid or what???

Double switch.

infohawk
06-17-2006, 08:25 PM
Whew!!! You know that every once in awhile your closer isn't going to be "on." Fortunately, Bobby was still good enough to get it done. He had some control problems, but way to grind it out Bobby!:gulp:

Jose's streak is still alive. All around good game!

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2006, 08:25 PM
Whew!!!!!

Question: Why make Mackowiak a defensive substitution for Anderson in the 9th? :?:

The pitcher's spot was due to hit in the next inning - if Cincy tied the game; you want some lumber in the 10th.

oeo
06-17-2006, 08:25 PM
Whew!!!!!

Question: Why make Mackowiak a defensive substitution for Anderson in the 9th? :?:
Anderson had the last at-bat, so actually Jenks came in for Anderson. If the Reds tied it up, the pitcher's spot would come up last (8th spot in the order now). Dumb NL stuff.

Bobby, I'll take a wild pitch if you throw that curveball. You need to throw it, or you're not going to succeed. If a guy is 0-2, get him...Griffey is up next for God's sake.

itsnotrequired
06-17-2006, 08:26 PM
Double Switch.

Technically, Jenks replaced Anderson.

Ozzie has no faith in Anderson!:redneck

Brian26
06-17-2006, 08:26 PM
That top of the 9th for the Sox was set up by one move. Ozzie pinch ran Gload for PK. If PK's still in there, there's no way he gets to third on that Dye hit to left, and then Dye doesn't try for 2nd, and then AJ doesn't get intentionally walked since first wouldn't have been open. Who knows how that inning ends up. So thumbs up to Ozzie on that small move.

Unregistered
06-17-2006, 08:26 PM
Question: Why make Mackowiak a defensive substitution for Anderson in the 9th? :?:
Somehow it always bites us on the ass, too. I'm not saying BA would've caught that double to center, but I'm not saying he wouldn't, either...

Kogs35
06-17-2006, 08:27 PM
fewwwwww now lets finish em off tomorow :bandance:

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2006, 08:27 PM
Somehow it always bites us on the ass, too. I'm not saying BA would've caught that shot to center, but I'm not saying he wouldn't, either...

That ball was smoked - I do not think anybody would have caught that.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:27 PM
The pitcher's spot was due to hit in the next inning - if Cincy tied the game; you want some lumber in the 10th.More importantly, you don't want to have to pull the pitcher for a PH. They'd already used McCarthy, Cotts, Thornton and Jenks. Only Montero and Riske were left.

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:28 PM
Double switch.

That move makes no sense though. Brian hit in the top of the 9th. You want your best defensive guys in for the bottom of the 9th.

Who cares if Jenks was going to lead off the 10th??? The game probably wasn't going to come to that.

I'd rather have Brian in for defense.

infohawk
06-17-2006, 08:28 PM
Somehow it always bites us on the ass, too. I'm not saying BA would've caught that double to center, but I'm not saying he wouldn't, either...
I don't think he would have had it. It was hit pretty deep into the gap.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:29 PM
Somehow it always bites us on the ass, too. I'm not saying BA would've caught that double to center, but I'm not saying he wouldn't, either...Not a snowball's chance in hell.

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2006, 08:30 PM
That move makes no sense though. Brian hit in the top of the 9th. You want your best defensive guys in for the bottom of the 9th.

Who cares if Jenks was going to lead off the 10th??? The game probably wasn't going to come to that.

I'd rather have Brian in for defense.

+1

I was hoping Thornton got the chance to finish the game - he looked very sharp tonight.

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:30 PM
But with a 3 run lead heading in to the bottom of the 9th, the mindset usually turns to defense. You put your BEST defensive guys in the game...not the worst.

Sometimes Ozzie pulls dumbass moves.

CanBuehrleWait
06-17-2006, 08:31 PM
But with a 3 run lead heading in to the bottom of the 9th, the mindset usually turns to defense. You put your BEST defensive guys in the game...not the worst.

Sometimes Ozzie pulls dumbass moves.

Is it really that serious? We won enjoy the win geez louise.

MarySwiss
06-17-2006, 08:32 PM
Double switch.
Thank you.

FloridaSox
06-17-2006, 08:34 PM
The pitcher's spot was due to hit in the next inning - if Cincy tied the game; you want some lumber in the 10th.

Of course with Anderson out and Mackiowak (or whatever his name in), the opportunity to tie goes up.

Unregistered
06-17-2006, 08:34 PM
Not a snowball's chance in hell.
Best centerfielder in the last 100 years. BP says so. :D:

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:35 PM
Is it really that serious? We won enjoy the win geez louise.

It could've been. I watched Ozzie blow the 3rd game to the Cubs earlier this year by not putting in Brian Anderson and Ross Gload at 1B.

Had we had those two guys in the game against the Cubs in the 9th. Anderson probably catches Michael Barrett's 3B, and Ross Gload being a lefthanded 1B probably scoops Uribe's low throw.

Why keep these guys on the bench late in the game if they can help you win? Defense can win you many a game in the Bigs.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:35 PM
But with a 3 run lead heading in to the bottom of the 9th, the mindset usually turns to defense. You put your BEST defensive guys in the game...not the worst.

Sometimes Ozzie pulls dumbass moves.And if they'd tied it and the bullpen was short you'd be all over him for that, too. If there was a move to question it was bringing in Cotts for one batter, even if it was Junior.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:36 PM
Of course with Anderson out and Mackiowak (or whatever his name in), the opportunity to tie goes up by about 1%.You left part of it out.

Fuller_Schettman
06-17-2006, 08:36 PM
And suddenly we have whipped something like 5 of the last 6 LH starters.

Oh, and we will bypass the Mets for 2nd best record...

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:37 PM
And if they'd tied it and the bullpen was short you'd be all over him for that, too. If there was a move to question it was bringing in Cotts for one batter, even if it was Junior.

What and now your the Amzing Kreskin and you know what I'm going to get on Ozzie about and what I won't???

No way. If Ozzie had his best defensive team on the field and we lost, so be it. We lose with our best.

We still could've PH other guys in Jenk's spot too.

Brian26
06-17-2006, 08:39 PM
But with a 3 run lead heading in to the bottom of the 9th, the mindset usually turns to defense. You put your BEST defensive guys in the game...not the worst.

Sometimes Ozzie pulls dumbass moves.

But as I pointed out earlier in the thread, substituting Gload to pinch hit for Konerko turned out to be a fantastic, understated move that Ozzie won't get one ounce of credit for. Ozzie's proved himself. He manages the World Champions. No need for whining and second guessing.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:40 PM
But as I pointed out earlier in the thread, substituting Gload to pinch hit for Konerko turned out to be a fantastic, understated move that Ozzie won't get one ounce of credit for. Ozzie's proved himself. He manages the World Champions. No need for whining and second guessing.Are you new here?:wink:

oeo
06-17-2006, 08:41 PM
What and now your the Amzing Kreskin and you know what I'm going to get on Ozzie about and what I won't???

No way. If Ozzie had his best defensive team on the field and we lost, so be it. We lose with our best.

We still could've PH other guys in Jenk's spot too.
And have Riske, who pitched yesterday, and Montero left in the pen? The NL is played differently than the AL. Just another reason I hate that the pitcher bats. To be whining about a common move, is ridiculous. If they were at home, or in any AL park, he wouldn't have made this change. So, GET OVER IT.

The only reason the game was close at the end, was because Bobby couldn't throw strikes, not because Mackowiak was in center.

itsnotrequired
06-17-2006, 08:41 PM
But as I pointed out earlier in the thread, substituting Gload to pinch hit for Konerko turned out to be a fantastic, understated move that Ozzie won't get one ounce of credit for. Ozzie's proved himself. He manages the World Champions. No need for whining and second guessing.

I thought Gload for Konerko was a no-brainer move. Who else would have ran anyway?:cool:

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:41 PM
But as I pointed out earlier in the thread, substituting Gload to pinch hit for Konerko turned out to be a fantastic, understated move that Ozzie won't get one ounce of credit for. Ozzie's proved himself. He manages the World Champions. No need for whining and second guessing.

Yes that was a great move, but I called for it too as soon as Konerko walked. Konerko has no speed to score on a gapper or go 1B to 3B. That's an obvious move. You get better speed and better defense by putting Goad in. It's a no brainer.

oeo
06-17-2006, 08:44 PM
Yes that was a great move, but I called for it too as soon as Konerko walked. Konerko has no speed to score on a gapper or go 1B to 3B. That's an obvious move. You get better speed and better defense by putting Goad in. It's a no brainer.
I don't know about better defense. Gload isn't a bad defensive firstbaseman, but he's not better than Paulie. Paulie does a lot that he doesn't get credit for over there. He saves a ton of errors by Crede, Uribe, and Gooch; something I don't think Gload would be able to do.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:44 PM
Yes that was a great move, but I called for it too as soon as Konerko walked. Konerko has no speed to score on a gapper or go 1B to 3B. That's an obvious move. You get better speed and better defense by putting Goad in. It's a no brainer.No speed??? He scored from second on a single to shallow left, didn't he??:cool:

This Reds team pretty much gave this game away with poor fundamentals, from not knowing who's running the bases to bad throws to sliding into first base. How are they even in second place? They'd be lucky to be .500 in the AL.

HotelWhiteSox
06-17-2006, 08:46 PM
This isn't the playoffs or do or die time, chill out people. Though to people questioning taking out Anderson, Farmer did the same as he didn't know the radio broadcast was on air yet from the commercial break

Jenks vs Griffey with the game on the line, does it get any better than that in the regular season?

Brian26
06-17-2006, 08:47 PM
You get better speed and better defense by putting Goad in. It's a no brainer.

Gload is not better defensively than Konerko, and he certainly doesn't have PK's bat. There was one out at that point. That run scoring from first was far from automatic. And if he got stranded there and PK's spot came up again in the 11th inning of a tie game, you'd be bitching about that too.

Palehose13
06-17-2006, 08:47 PM
I don't know about better defense. Gload isn't a bad defensive firstbaseman, but he's not better than Paulie. Paulie does a lot that he doesn't get credit for over there. He saves a ton of errors by Crede, Uribe, and Gooch; something I don't think Gload would be able to do.

I respectfully disagree. Case in point, opening day 2005. If Gload would not have been a defensive sub in the 9th, we may not have gone wire-to-wire last year. :cool:

Palehose13
06-17-2006, 08:48 PM
Oh yeah...gotta love the attitude of some here even with a victory. :rolleyes:

Brian26
06-17-2006, 08:49 PM
How are they even in second place? They'd be lucky to be .500 in the AL.

That entire NL is a joke. They should just give the pennant to the Mets right now and send everyone home for the rest of the season. It's embarrassing.

Zisk77
06-17-2006, 08:49 PM
The only move I didn't like was Thome PH against Hammond. I thought Iguchi with BA at 1st would have been good to hit n run if we got a count. But I undertand what OZZIE was thinking. Hammonds best pitch is a change and most lefties are reluctant to throw changes to strong left handed hitters. Change up from Lefties to righties can be deadly to righties. Great win anyway. Lets get Harang tomorrow. :rolleyes:

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:49 PM
I don't know about better defense. Gload isn't a bad defensive firstbaseman, but he's not better than Paulie. Paulie does a lot that he doesn't get credit for over there. He saves a ton of errors by Crede, Uribe, and Gooch; something I don't think Gload would be able to do.

I think Gload is a better 1B defensively than Paulie. (not knocking Paulie mind you) But I'm reminded of the 1984 Tigers who ALWAYS substituted Dave Bergman late in the game defensively for Barbaro Garbey.

I have no problem with Gload in at 1B in the 8th or 9th inning for the Sox.

I have a huge problem with Mackowiak playing CF for the Sox with close game on the line. I don't like it, never have and never will. No matter who the eff tells me to GET OVER IT.

batmanZoSo
06-17-2006, 08:49 PM
No speed??? He scored from second on a single to shallow left, didn't he??:cool:

This Reds team pretty much gave this game away with poor fundamentals, from not knowing who's running the bases to bad throws to sliding into first base. How are they even in second place? They'd be lucky to be .500 in the AL.

You can say that again. The real World Series will again be played in AL parks.

oeo
06-17-2006, 08:51 PM
I respectfully disagree. Case in point, opening day 2005. If Gload would not have been a defensive sub in the 9th, we may not have gone wire-to-wire last year. :cool:
There's really no way you can say Konerko could not have made that play, but even if so, that's one play to the hundreds Paulie makes every year. Most of which do not get much attention. For example, Crede makes a great diving play, and makes a bad throw, but Paulie picks him up (Crede gets the credit and gets a web gem later in the night). I don't think Gload can make some of the picks that Paulie can, and therefore, I would rather have him out there in late innings over Gload.

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:54 PM
. And if he got stranded there and PK's spot came up again in the 11th inning of a tie game, you'd be bitching about that too.

How do you know what the eff I'd be bitching about??? You dont' know me. Ross Gload is quite capable with the bat and in an extra inning game you use your bench guys.

That's what they're there for. Don't make presumptions or put words in my mouth. *** is that??? That's bush league.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 08:54 PM
There's really no way you can say Konerko could not have made that play, but even if so, that's one play to the hundreds Paulie makes every year. Most of which do not get much of attention. For example, Crede makes a great diving play, and makes a bad throw, but Paulie picks him up (Crede gets the credit and gets a web gem later in the night). I don't think Gload can make some of the picks that Paulie can.There's the real issue. They have different strengths. PK is much better at picking balls out of the dirt. OTOH, he's as mobile as an oak tree. How many throws have gone by him because he couldn't move quick enough?

Brian26
06-17-2006, 08:55 PM
There's really no way you can say Konerko could not have made that play, but even if so, that's one play to the hundreds Paulie makes every year. Most of which do not get much attention. For example, Crede makes a great diving play, and makes a bad throw, but Paulie picks him up (Crede gets the credit and gets a web gem later in the night). I don't think Gload can make some of the picks that Paulie can.

Yep. Unfortunately they don't/can't keep stats on balls dug out of the dirt/tough picks/etc, but Konerko has saved a ton of them over the past year or two. To say PK has to be replaced late in the game for defensive reasons is just silly.

Going back to Opening Day 2005, who knows if Gload even gets a chance to spear that without the power of Shingo on the mound. Shingo is the real reason we went wire to wire :D:

Brian26
06-17-2006, 08:57 PM
How do you know what the eff I'd be bitching about??? You dont' know me. Ross Gload is quite capable with the bat and in an extra inning game you use your bench guys.

That's what they're there for. Don't make presumptions or put words in my mouth. *** is that??? That's bush league.

:hawk
"I know what I'd be doing if that was me...I'd be waiting outside the clubhouse for wsoxmike59 to come out."

DieTrying79
06-17-2006, 08:58 PM
WTG, Sox! Great win, another series for us, too.

oeo
06-17-2006, 08:58 PM
How do you know what the eff I'd be bitching about??? You dont' know me. Ross Gload is quite capable with the bat and in an extra inning game you use your bench guys.

That's what they're there for. Don't make presumptions or put words in my mouth. *** is that??? That's bush league.
Little feisty there, eh? :tongue:

Gload can get a hit here and there, but he's nowhere near the hitter Paulie is. Paulie is one of the most dangerous hitters in the game. Do you seriously want Ross Gload at the plate, over Paul Konerko?

I know that's not what is being argued, but Konerko's bat >>>> Gload's bat.

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 08:59 PM
Oh I'm shaking in my shoes.

itsnotrequired
06-17-2006, 09:00 PM
That entire NL is a joke. They should just give the pennant to the Mets right now and send everyone home for the rest of the season. It's embarrassing.

In the 13 interleague games completed today, AL leads 8-5. The disparity was even larger yesterday.

The NL is not good...

batmanZoSo
06-17-2006, 09:01 PM
How do you know what the eff I'd be bitching about??? You dont' know me. Ross Gload is quite capable with the bat and in an extra inning game you use your bench guys.

That's what they're there for. Don't make presumptions or put words in my mouth. *** is that??? That's bush league.

:rolling:

Wanna arm wrestle?!

DickAllen72
06-17-2006, 09:01 PM
That entire NL is a joke. They should just give the pennant to the Mets right now and send everyone home for the rest of the season. It's embarrassing.
You can say that again. The Reds really look bad in the few times I've seen them this year. Very poor at fundamentals.

The Devil Rays would be at least second place in the NL Central.

HotelWhiteSox
06-17-2006, 09:02 PM
Tampa Bay blew out the Phillies for the 2nd straight game and Baltimore took down the 'red hot' Mets for the 2nd straight night. That's all you have to say about the NL.

With a couple games still pending, the AL is 19-7 in the last 2 days, with Texas' game still going on (blowing out the DBacks) and the A's tied

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 09:02 PM
Little feisty there, eh? :tongue:

Gload can get a hit here and there, but he's nowhere near the hitter Paulie is. Paulie is one of the most dangerous hitters in the game. Do you seriously want Ross Gload at the plate, over Paul Konerko?

I know that's not what is being argued, but Konerko's bat >>>> Gload's bat.

hehe, yeah just a little bit. But in an extra inning game you're generally playing for one run. Your best defense belongs on the field. That's all I'm saying.

I've had two people "Presume" over what I'd be mad at if some moves hadn't worked out. That's not right. They dont' know me, and to presume or puts words in my mouth is flat out wrong.

edited due to beer consumption:

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 09:02 PM
:rolling:

Wanna arm wrestle?!Thumb war!!!!!!!

Palehose13
06-17-2006, 09:03 PM
There's really no way you can say Konerko could not have made that play, but even if so, that's one play to the hundreds Paulie makes every year. Most of which do not get much attention. For example, Crede makes a great diving play, and makes a bad throw, but Paulie picks him up (Crede gets the credit and gets a web gem later in the night). I don't think Gload can make some of the picks that Paulie can, and therefore, I would rather have him out there in late innings over Gload.

I don't how you are able to assume that Paul might make a diving catch, yet you think Gload couldn't pick balls out of the dirt. I honestly can't remember a time when Gload was out there and thought "PK would have made that play" ala Mac replacing Anderson.

Konerko is pretty good at picking balls out of the dirt, but Gload made a diving catch that day and I think we all know how mobile Paul is. I'm not knocking him as a first baseman. He does just fine, but Gload has more mobility and I don't mind seeing him out there in the late innings as a defensive replacement.

batmanZoSo
06-17-2006, 09:04 PM
In the 13 interleague games completed today, AL leads 8-5. The disparity was even larger yesterday.

The NL is not good...

Wasn't it 10-2 yesterday? Or 12-2? The NL has an advantage too because of that pitcher-has-to-bat-for-some-reason rule. AL pitchers don't know how to hit or lay down bunts and managers aren't used to managing those kinds of games.

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2006, 09:05 PM
Oh I'm shaking in my shoes.

http://www.movieactors.com/photos/stripes127.jpeg

Lighten up, Francis...

I agreed with your point, but insulting others is just silly.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 09:05 PM
hehe, yeah just a little bit. But in an extra inning game you're generally playing for one run. Your best defense belongs on the field. That's all I'm saying.

I've had two peoplel "Presume" over what I'd be mad at if some moves hadn't worked out. That's not right. They dont' know me, and to presume or puts words in my mouth if flat out wrong.The first line of defense is pitching. If they went into extra innings, I'd much rather have Mackowiak in CF and Jenks on the mound than Anderson in CF and Montero or Riske on the mound.

batmanZoSo
06-17-2006, 09:07 PM
The first line of defense is pitching. If they went into extra innings, I'd much rather have Mackowiak in CF and Jenks on the mound than Anderson in CF and Montero or Riske on the mound.

Not to mention, again, Anderson is not Willie Mays out there. Hell, he cost us a run with that ill-advised throw to the plate when he had no chance at getting the out. But that's opening a can of worms that's for another thread all together...

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 09:07 PM
OK, I'm calm now. I just got my dander up a bit. No offense to Brian or Old No 2.

http://infochord.de/medien/frank-costanza.jpg

You Wanna Piece of Me????

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2006, 09:09 PM
You Wanna Piece of Me????


http://moblog.co.uk/blogs/2688/thumbs/moblog_b74c6f5a0ac1c.jpg

I am crushing, squishing your head!!!
:tongue:

oeo
06-17-2006, 09:09 PM
I don't how you are able to assume that Paul might make a diving catch, yet you think Gload couldn't pick balls out of the dirt. I honestly can't remember a time when Gload was out there and thought "PK would have made that play" ala Mac replacing Anderson.

Konerko is pretty good at picking balls out of the dirt, but Gload made a diving catch that day and I think we all know how mobile Paul is. I'm not knocking him as a first baseman. He does just fine, but Gload has more mobility and I don't mind seeing him out there in the late innings as a defensive replacement.
I've seen Konerko make diving plays, and I haven't seen Gload make some of the picks that Konerko has. The main reason I don't want Konerko out of the game, is because that is a huge bat to lose. I still think Konerko is the man I want to see out there in the late innings, you just put Gload in there to pinchrun in the late innings (like tonight), and he can be a good fill-in defensively, but that's about it, IMO.

Ol' No. 2
06-17-2006, 09:12 PM
Not to mention, again, Anderson is not Willie Mays out there. Hell, he cost us a run with that ill-advised throw to the plate when he had no chance at getting the out. But that's opening a can of worms that's for another thread all together...I'm more concerned with this habit he's picked up of running in front of other outfielders when they've lined up to make a catch. He's done it to Dye and he did it to Pods today. That's more than a risk of a dropped ball. Someone could get hurt. That's gotta get fixed.

Wsoxmike59
06-17-2006, 09:12 PM
I've seen Konerko make diving plays, and I haven't seen Gload make some of the picks that Konerko has.

That's cuz Gload is rarely on the field. Give 'em a chance and you'll see the 2nd coming of Mike Squires down there at 1B.

Unregistered
06-17-2006, 09:12 PM
Not to mention, again, Anderson is not Willie Mays out there. Hell, he cost us a run with that ill-advised throw to the plate when he had no chance at getting the out. But that's opening a can of worms that's for another thread all together...
:talktothehand: Best. Centerfielder. 100. Years.

Brian26
06-17-2006, 09:15 PM
I'm more concerned with this habit he's picked up of running in front of other outfielders when they've lined up to make a catch. He's done it to Dye and he did it to Pods today. That's more than a risk of a dropped ball. Someone could get hurt. That's gotta get fixed.

:hawk
"Ozzie will take care of that."

:DJ
"Then why has it been happening now for almost four weeks?"

oeo
06-17-2006, 09:15 PM
That's cuz Gload is rarely on the field. Give 'em a chance and you'll see the 2nd coming of Mike Squires down there at 1B.

Like I said, he's not bad defensively. But I still want Paulie, and there's no reason to give him more playing time, because his presence in the lineup doesn't even come close to Paulie's.

chisoxmike
06-17-2006, 09:16 PM
:hawk
"Ozzie will take care of that."

:DJ
"Then why has it been happening now for almost four weeks?"


:rolling:

I hate it everytime Hawk says that. Thats this year's "Where's he gonna play?"

soxfanatlanta
06-17-2006, 09:16 PM
I'm more concerned with this habit he's picked up of running in front of other outfielders when they've lined up to make a catch. He's done it to Dye and he did it to Pods today. That's more than a risk of a dropped ball. Someone could get hurt. That's gotta get fixed.

DJ did make a comment like that after that play. Pods was just sitting under the ball when BA almost collided with him. I'm sure they are talking about it in the clubhouse; they really need to sort that out.

flo-B-flo
06-17-2006, 09:19 PM
+1

I was hoping Thornton got the chance to finish the game - he looked very sharp tonight. Me too. Matt "Bullet Train" Thornton was on tonite. The bullpen is taking shape as the season goes on.

Palehose13
06-17-2006, 09:24 PM
I'm more concerned with this habit he's picked up of running in front of other outfielders when they've lined up to make a catch. He's done it to Dye and he did it to Pods today. That's more than a risk of a dropped ball. Someone could get hurt. That's gotta get fixed.

Yep, that is absolutely an issue and in the reply you could clearly see Pods calling for the ball.

flo-B-flo
06-17-2006, 09:25 PM
I'm more concerned with this habit he's picked up of running in front of other outfielders when they've lined up to make a catch. He's done it to Dye and he did it to Pods today. That's more than a risk of a dropped ball. Someone could get hurt. That's gotta get fixed. This is what I saw. DJ even said Pods was "flat footed" meaning he was set and ready to catch it. BriAn is young and good. When he calms down, lets it come to him some, He will be alright.

flo-B-flo
06-17-2006, 09:28 PM
That entire NL is a joke. They should just give the pennant to the Mets right now and send everyone home for the rest of the season. It's embarrassing. One thing for sure, the American League is kicking the NL's ass. All over. Look at the weekend. Total ass kicking.

1951Campbell
06-17-2006, 09:36 PM
One thing for sure, the American League is kicking the NL's ass. All over. Look at the weekend. Total ass kicking.

Hey, I don't think the NL looks too bad!

Signed,

The AFC from the 80s & 90s.

IlliniSox4Life
06-17-2006, 09:52 PM
Great win. Even a game when Jose is off, he still sets a career high for strikeouts, and we still when by 3 runs. That Jose is good!

ViPeRx007
06-17-2006, 10:12 PM
I gotta say, I don't usually come read these post game threads, and now I know why.

I'd hate to see what they are like when the Sox lose...

:D:

SouthSide_HitMen
06-17-2006, 10:17 PM
Best centerfielder in the last 100 years. BP says so. :D:

They said he put up the best stats over the six weeks Ozzie has played him this season. Their article also stated they expect his stats to regress somewhat.

They concluded stating Brian Anderson is one of the best in baseball and his awesome glove allowed the team to trade Rowand for Thome which was another excellent move by KW.

If it was a one or two run lead I would have questioned the double switch but it didn't bother me with a three run lead (though I felt a little ill when I saw Mackowiak out there. Anderson DOES NOT get that ball but I am glad nothing else was hit to center.

Kudos to Urbie for coming through in the clutch as well and Crede for hustling on that infield fielders choice.

Great defensive play by Ozuna to get Lopez (maybe he sled to avoid a tag but it was stupid and probably cost him a base hit). Such is life in the National League.

Hitmen77
06-17-2006, 10:35 PM
Tampa Bay blew out the Phillies for the 2nd straight game and Baltimore took down the 'red hot' Mets for the 2nd straight night. That's all you have to say about the NL.

With a couple games still pending, the AL is 19-7 in the last 2 days, with Texas' game still going on (blowing out the DBacks) and the A's tied

And a vast majority of those games are in NL parks under NL rules. :o:

Iguana775
06-17-2006, 10:53 PM
That ball was smoked - I do not think anybody would have caught that.

Whatca talking about? Rowand would have had that! :cool:

Fuller_Schettman
06-17-2006, 10:54 PM
I gotta say, I don't usually come read these post game threads, and now I know why.

I'd hate to see what they are like when the Sox lose...

:D:

Are you kidding? It's like half price steak night at the Perkins in Billings, Montana!

Mercy!
06-17-2006, 11:15 PM
Fifteen straight games against NL teams. It sounded vaguely ominous to me. Guess I was pretty ignorant about the other league. :?:

It's not just Cub fans who should be wearing bags over their heads in the stands. What an embarrassment!

I was sure underwhelmed by Junior's performance, especially yesterday in the field. A couple of times, he seemed like he just couldn't be bothered.

You know, I'm starting to finally get excited about this year. If a few more things start to fall into place - bullpen, Uribe, Anderson - this could be one awesome season.

HawkDJ
06-17-2006, 11:22 PM
So, I didn't see the game but..Jose had 13 K's and gave up 5 runs? Very interesting.

sox aka champs
06-17-2006, 11:22 PM
Wooohoooo great win, was a great game to be at!

ViPeRx007
06-17-2006, 11:24 PM
Are you kidding? It's like half price steak night at the Perkins in Billings, Montana!

You mean they have those here?

lol.

Frankly Missing
06-17-2006, 11:25 PM
I'm more concerned with this habit he's picked up of running in front of other outfielders when they've lined up to make a catch. He's done it to Dye and he did it to Pods today. That's more than a risk of a dropped ball. Someone could get hurt. That's gotta get fixed.

I listened to the game. Farmer said Pods signaled that he had lost the ball and Anderson came in and made the play.

Anyone else get that impression?

gobears1987
06-17-2006, 11:29 PM
What is it with dark clouds questioning Ozzie's move with RMack. That wasn't a bad move in NL ball. I can't understand why people feel the need to question the manager with the 2nd best winning percentage among all active managers.

Ozzie was playing it safe to save the pen in case it went to extra innings. ***** people. Anderson is good, but he wouldn't have made that catch. Nothing against Jenks, but the Reds have an explosive offense and Ozzie knows that.

IlliniSox4Life
06-17-2006, 11:31 PM
I listened to the game. Farmer said Pods signaled that he had lost the ball and Anderson came in and made the play.

Anyone else get that impression?

I didn't get that impression, but I'd have to see it again. It seemed like Pods saw it all the way, as his glove was pretty much right there . If he did signal he lost it though, it was a great play by Anderson.

TheKittle
06-17-2006, 11:43 PM
I didn't get that impression, but I'd have to see it again. It seemed like Pods saw it all the way, as his glove was pretty much right there . If he did signal he lost it though, it was a great play by Anderson.

I didn't either. Not that I'm a lip reader or anything but I looked like Pods was saying "I got it" instead of help etc.

Mercy!
06-17-2006, 11:49 PM
I didn't either. Not that I'm a lip reader or anything but I looked like Pods was saying "I got it" instead of help etc.
Yep. The replay showed that Pods was saying "I got it - I got it - I got it"

Palehose13
06-17-2006, 11:50 PM
I didn't either. Not that I'm a lip reader or anything but I looked like Pods was saying "I got it" instead of help etc.

Yep. That is what it looked like to me.

markopat
06-17-2006, 11:51 PM
WOW...some interesting reading here! I LOVE the Win! Let's rock em again tomorrow.

Appears to be lots of "Pre-Father's Day" stress out there! Go hit some golf balls and blow off some steam!

Go Go SOX!

spongyfungy
06-18-2006, 12:01 AM
This was a fun game to go to. The game was breezing along and then it slowed down and got more intense. There were lots of sox fans in the upper deck behind home plate and a large contingent behind third base. The row behind us yelled Michael Barrett everytime AJ came up and they tried to get the wave going late in the game. There were beach balls and i'm sure they showed the delay on TV when it fell onto the field. I didn't think it was possible to have more fan participation activities than the White Sox do but I was wrong.

I met Brandon McCarthy's girlfriend as well. I guess they met in Cleveland a month ago

HotelWhiteSox
06-18-2006, 12:13 AM
Also, props to AJ on that slide

tehwhitesoxrulz
06-18-2006, 12:20 AM
Am i the only one there for a minute though when ozzie came out should have taken Jose out.I figured it was tied with runners on first and second it was to risky and i didn't want Jose to lose it.Anyway in the end his streak still remains

TornLabrum
06-18-2006, 12:37 AM
Yep. The replay showed that Pods was saying "I got it - I got it - I got it"

Not only that, but he was waving Anderson off as he was shouting it.

Nellie_Fox
06-18-2006, 01:01 AM
What is it with dark clouds questioning Ozzie's move with RMack.1. Questioning a move doesn't make you a dark cloud. It was the right move, but if we can't question moves on here, well then, as I've said before, there are apparently only two proper posts on post-game threads. After a win "woohoo" and after a loss "we'll get them tomorrow."

2. First initial, first syllable nicknames are over. So over.

GOGOGOPODS
06-18-2006, 01:02 AM
Can you hear it? SWEEP SWEEP SWEEP!!! Keep it up all you Sox fans in Cinci!

voodoochile
06-18-2006, 01:09 AM
Kept coming to the TV at work to find the Sox losing and then returning to find the game tied. Got to watch most of the ninth with that epic showdown between Jenks and Jr. to end it.

Heck of a game between two teams doing their best not to lose.

:winner

:supernana:

JC456
06-18-2006, 02:15 AM
What is it with dark clouds questioning Ozzie's move with RMack. That wasn't a bad move in NL ball. I can't understand why people feel the need to question the manager with the 2nd best winning percentage among all active managers.

Ozzie was playing it safe to save the pen in case it went to extra innings. ***** people. Anderson is good, but he wouldn't have made that catch. Nothing against Jenks, but the Reds have an explosive offense and Ozzie knows that.

I don't know if that is a good move or not. Ozzie still could have pinch hit for the pitcher with Mackowiak. If Jenks gives up three runs in the ninth, do you think he'd be back out in the 10th? Or how about never getting to the 10th and the game is over giving up runs because your best was on the bench. I see too many balls hit the ground with Mackowiak in Center. And the ninth inning isn't the inning to be letting that happen.

Pitching and defense win games and not having your best fielder in Center in a critical inning is in my opinion stupid. Could Brian have gotten to that ball we'll never know, however, I have seen him get to balls much like that.

The Sox win, but it certainly wasn't pretty.

gf2020
06-18-2006, 02:43 AM
I don't know if that is a good move or not. Ozzie still could have pinch hit for the pitcher with Mackowiak. If Jenks gives up three runs in the ninth, do you think he'd be back out in the 10th?

No and that's the point. If he pinch hits for the pitcher, then we are using Montero or Riske, who pitched yesterday and then we only have one pitcher left in the pen. If the game goes 15, we are screwed in no certain terms and we either ruin one of our pitcher's arms or do something ridiculous like having Ozuna come out and pitch.

If you want to criticize Ozzie, you can look at him for only using Cotts for one out or not letting Matt T. extend himself, but this was clearly the right move. Again, it's only two to three plays a week that Anderson is making that Mackowiak can't (those who claim that there is one a game are ridiculous) and what are the odds that one of them occurs in this one half inning and ends up costing the Sox three runs. Less than one percent? There's definitely a much greater chance that the Reds could score three runs in a manner that didn't involve center field play and end up forcing the Sox to go into their bullpen or basically give up outs by forcing the pitcher to bat.

JC456
06-18-2006, 03:42 AM
No and that's the point. If he pinch hits for the pitcher, then we are using Montero or Riske, who pitched yesterday and then we only have one pitcher left in the pen. If the game goes 15, we are screwed in no certain terms and we either ruin one of our pitcher's arms or do something ridiculous like having Ozuna come out and pitch.

If you want to criticize Ozzie, you can look at him for only using Cotts for one out or not letting Matt T. extend himself, but this was clearly the right move. Again, it's only two to three plays a week that Anderson is making that Mackowiak can't (those who claim that there is one a game are ridiculous) and what are the odds that one of them occurs in this one half inning and ends up costing the Sox three runs. Less than one percent? There's definitely a much greater chance that the Reds could score three runs in a manner that didn't involve center field play and end up forcing the Sox to go into their bullpen or basically give up outs by forcing the pitcher to bat.

Well I don't understand your logic. If Jenks isn't coming back in the 10th what's the difference to pinch hit?

Jenks could also have hit depending on the situation.

Pitching and defense win games. Don't lose sight of that.

Grzegorz
06-18-2006, 05:38 AM
1. Questioning a move doesn't make you a dark cloud. It was the right move, but if we can't question moves on here, well then, as I've said before, there are apparently only two proper posts on post-game threads. After a win "woohoo" and after a loss "we'll get them tomorrow."

2. First initial, first syllable nicknames are over. So over.
Point One: Thank you; just because you question a move that goes against convention doesn't mean you're throwing Ozzie under the bus. Pitching and defense win games period. We need every game in this series, so playing the percentages is the smart thing to do. This time we benefited from this CF substitution.

Point Two: Noted and filed for future reference.

SBSoxFan
06-18-2006, 07:53 AM
No speed??? He scored from second on a single to shallow left, didn't he??:cool:

This Reds team pretty much gave this game away with poor fundamentals, from not knowing who's running the bases to bad throws to sliding into first base. How are they even in second place? They'd be lucky to be .500 in the AL.

I believe the AL is 20-8 the last 2 days in NL parks.

Wsoxmike59
06-18-2006, 08:02 AM
Point One: Thank you; just because you question a move that goes against convention doesn't mean you're throwing Ozzie under the bus. Pitching and defense win games period. We need every game in this series, so playing the percentages is the smart thing to do. This time we benefited from this CF substitution.



I couldn't agree more Grzegorz. Which is why I was so LIVID last night to see Mack in the game for Brian Anderson. :angry:

At first I thought I might be over reacting a bit, with a 3 run lead and all..... but after Cincinnati loaded the bases, I was sweating out the fact Mackowiak was in CF and not Anderson!

A gapper with the bases loaded and all of a sudden we're tied. That's a big Centerfield area to cover in Great American Ballpark, and I'd much rather have Anderson patrolling it than Mackowiak.

I just didn't see the need for a double switch. I still don't.

SBSoxFan
06-18-2006, 08:03 AM
I didn't get that impression, but I'd have to see it again. It seemed like Pods saw it all the way, as his glove was pretty much right there . If he did signal he lost it though, it was a great play by Anderson.

On the radio, Farmer said Pods didn't see it at first.

Didn't Pods also not see a ball that dropped for 2 runs? Maybe that's why BA cut in front of him this time?

Vernam
06-18-2006, 08:33 AM
Also, props to AJ on that slideThat was truly inspiring -- I can't remember the last time I saw a guy go that hard into second. But it was totally clean, and it may have won us the game.

I love Jermaine, but his trying for second in the 8th was NOT a smart play. He was lucky not to be tagged, because we'd have had the lead run at third with two outs instead of one. Major no-no. Yes, I realize Jermaine's run ended up being the winner, but it was still a mistake.

The home plate ump was brutal. Jose benefited from a couple of calls, but we almost got killed by the strike three at Konerko's laces.

Anyway . . . Woo Hoo, we win! :redneck

Vernam

Ol' No. 2
06-18-2006, 08:47 AM
I couldn't agree more Grzegorz. Which is why I was so LIVID last night to see Mack in the game for Brian Anderson. :angry:

At first I thought I might be over reacting a bit, with a 3 run lead and all..... but after Cincinnati loaded the bases, I was sweating out the fact Mackowiak was in CF and not Anderson!

A gapper with the bases loaded and all of a sudden we're tied. That's a big Centerfield area to cover in Great American Ballpark, and I'd much rather have Anderson patrolling it than Mackowiak.

I just didn't see the need for a double switch. I still don't.They almost did tie it. In fact, if Bonehead Lopez had the sense to run through first base instead of sliding, they probably would have. And it would have had nothing to do with Mackowiak. At that point their odds of winning the game drop dramatically with the pitcher due to lead off in the 10th and only Riske and Montero left in the pen. Ozzie played the odds and won.

Wsoxmike59
06-18-2006, 09:19 AM
I realize what you're saying, but I'm just not comfortable with Mackowiak in CF for the Sox. Especially in a ballpark with spacious gaps.

If it were up to me, I'd move Podsednik to CF in these types of situations to utilize his speed, and play Mackowiak in LF. I know Pods has been very shaky in the OF for the Sox this year, but I still think getting a read off the bat while playing CF is easier than getting a read off the bat playing LF.

As a CF you have a perfect view of pitch location that the LF doesn't get.

I also think the best or swiftest athlete should be playing CF whenever possible. The CF'er is the captain of the OF and he should be able to cover the OF, gap to gap.

If Anderson is out of the game, then I think Podsednik would be my 2nd choice to play CF....not Mackowiak.

Mercy!
06-18-2006, 09:25 AM
If Anderson is out of the game, then I think Podsednik would be my 2nd choice to play CF....not Mackowiak. Yikes! I believe Ozzie has already expressed his view on this. Something along the lines of "Did you see how he played center field in Milwaukee?????"

Chips
06-18-2006, 09:28 AM
:winner

Wsoxmike59
06-18-2006, 09:36 AM
Yikes! I believe Ozzie has already expressed his view on this. Something along the lines of "Did you see how he played center field in Milwaukee?????"

Yes I did, and thought he did an adequate job out there while as a CF, as his .992 Fielding Pct. suggests.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6489/fielding.html < Podsednik

Pods also played 15 games in CF for the Sox last year and didn't commit an error.

I would much rather have Podsednik's speed in CF as opposed to Mackowiak's if that's the choice I'm given.

P.S. for comparison sake I'm posting Aaron Rowand's Fielding Pct. too.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6742/fielding.html < Rowand

Pods compares very favorably to Aaron Rowand statistically speaking.

Grzegorz
06-18-2006, 10:10 AM
They almost did tie it. In fact, if Bonehead Lopez had the sense to run through first base instead of sliding, they probably would have. And it would have had nothing to do with Mackowiak. At that point their odds of winning the game drop dramatically with the pitcher due to lead off in the 10th and only Riske and Montero left in the pen. Ozzie played the odds and won.

Correction, Ozzie rolled the dice and won. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

I would much rather have Podsednik's speed in CF as opposed to Mackowiak's if that's the choice I'm given.

I am in absolute agreement; Podsednik's experience in CF make this decision elementary.

Ol' No. 2
06-18-2006, 10:11 AM
Yes I did, and thought he did an adequate job out there while as a CF, as his .992 Fielding Pct. suggests.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6489/fielding.html < Podsednik

Pods also played 15 games in CF for the Sox last year and didn't commit an error.

I would much rather have Podsednik's speed in CF as opposed to Mackowiak's if that's the choice I'm given.

P.S. for comparison sake I'm posting Aaron Rowand's Fielding Pct. too.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6742/fielding.html < Rowand

Pods compares very favorably to Aaron Rowand statistically speaking.Fielding percentage for an OF is almost meaningless. To get an error as an OF you almost have to have the ball bounce off your forehead. It's the number of balls you don't get to that matter, and these don't show up in any statistic. Plus, Podsednik has a pretty weak arm. Speed doesn't help if you don't know where to run to. Mackowiak is a better choice in CF than Podsednik.

Palehose13
06-18-2006, 10:26 AM
On the radio, Farmer said Pods didn't see it at first.

Didn't Pods also not see a ball that dropped for 2 runs? Maybe that's why BA cut in front of him this time?

On television :wink:, they showed a close up replay (twice, I believe). Pods is clearly camped, yelling "I got it", and waving his arm. Just as the ball is about to get there, BA comes in from nowhere to make the catch.

I think Anderson might make a fine CFer someday, but he's got to cut that **** out. He has done to JD on numerous occasions and to Pods last night.

I do agree with 59 on one thing, I would rather have Pods in CF than Mackowiak also. He wasn't the best defensive guy out there when he played the position, but he was no Carlos Lee either. :wink:

Chips
06-18-2006, 10:27 AM
Fielding percentage for an OF is almost meaningless. To get an error as an OF you almost have to have the ball bounce off your forehead. It's the number of balls you don't get to that matter, and these don't show up in any statistic. Plus, Podsednik has a pretty weak arm. Speed doesn't help if you don't know where to run to. Mackowiak is a better choice in CF than Podsednik.
Very much correct. Didn't Carlos Lee have a great fielding percentage because he let so many balls drop in front of him?

Wsoxmike59
06-18-2006, 10:36 AM
Mackowiak is a better choice in CF than Podsednik.

We're free to disagree on this point.

Don't get me wrong, I love Mackowiak as a player, he's a gamer. But I think Ozzie is using him all wrong and he's out of postion as a CF.

His play is more suited to the corner OF slots IMO, and he's versatile enough to play several INF positions.

I've already seen enough of Mackowiak in CF this year to know he's NOT an everyday CF, or at the very least a viable platoon option.

I agree that Fielding Pct is a misleading stat and only rates you on balls that you get to, and not balls you should've gotten to.

caulfield12
06-18-2006, 10:47 AM
First, Anderson makes an ill-advised and way off target throw to home that allows the runner to move up to second and be driven in with a single for a 3-1 lead.

Then Pods gets one of the worst jumps in recorded history on the ball that Kearns dumped in front of him for the 5-3 lead. There's a very good reason that Scotty is not a CF. We saw it again last night.

Somehow, during this 9-3 stretch of baseball, we've managed to work around these mistakes...I guess the big thing we keep telling ourselves is that we haven't played nearly as well as we are capable of, although we're stilling getting our fair share of W's.

Ol' No. 2
06-18-2006, 11:00 AM
Very much correct. Didn't Carlos Lee have a grea fielding percentage because he let so many balls drop in front of him?He had a 1.000 FPCT. Theoretically, a tree would have a 1.000 FPCT, too.

Ol' No. 2
06-18-2006, 11:01 AM
First, Anderson makes an ill-advised and way off target throw to home that allows the runner to move up to second and be driven in with a single for a 3-1 lead.

Then Pods gets one of the worst jumps in recorded history on the ball that Kearns dumped in front of him for the 5-3 lead. There's a very good reason that Scotty is not a CF. We saw it again last night.

Somehow, during this 9-3 stretch of baseball, we've managed to work around these mistakes...I guess the big thing we keep telling ourselves is that we haven't played nearly as well as we are capable of, although we're stilling getting our fair share of W's.Too many wrong mistakes. They were fortunate that the Reds made more.

gf2020
06-18-2006, 11:40 AM
Well I don't understand your logic. If Jenks isn't coming back in the 10th what's the difference to pinch hit?

Jenks could also have hit depending on the situation.

Pitching and defense win games. Don't lose sight of that.

Pinch hitting for Jenks leaves you with only arm left in the bullpen. That's the difference.

Jenks could have hit depending on the situation? Without the double switch, he's the first to bat next inning. Do you really want a pitcher leading off the tenth?

I agree that pitching does win games and in order to have pitching, you have to have...well...pitchers. Leaving the bullpen seriously undermanned on the slighest of chance that there will be a ball hit to CF that Anderson would have gotten to that Rob couldn't have is not smart.

JohnBasedowYoda
06-18-2006, 11:48 AM
Thumb war!!!!!!!

SoxEd would own us with his superior linguistic ability

and who're the redlegs?

soxfanatlanta
06-18-2006, 11:51 AM
and who're the redlegs?

They are the team that will be swept today.

Mercy!
06-19-2006, 02:00 PM
Speak of the devil.

See today's Sun-Times, "Podsednik's defense looks shaky to Ozzie".

"He [Podsednik] should be better,'' Guillen. "He should be better because he was playing center field for three years. I don't know if it's concentration, but he should be better. It comes from work.

"Sometimes you go to different ballparks and you can't read the ball well, but do we expect him to do better? We wish he would.''

The Sox don't mind that Podsednik's arm is questionable at best. But the fact he has six errors, which leads all American League outfielders, and doesn't seem to get a good read on balls all the time is what has Guillen concerned.
More (and a more ominous remark from Ozzie) at

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt19.html