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Beautox
06-16-2006, 05:57 AM
I was just over at www.marlinbaseball.com (http://www.marlinbaseball.com), keeping tabs on the games most talented up and coming team and i read that the marlins FO turned down a deal with Detroit(Verlander + Granderson) for D-Train, all i can say is WOW!, if they turned that down in the off season, I can only imagine what they might get if they trade him to either the Dodgers/D'Backs because a pitcher is going to define the winner out in the NL west and both teams have extensive farm systems.

If they delt with the Dbacks i've read from marlins fans this is what they would be looking to get in return for willis: Chris Young (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Young&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455759), Miguel Montero (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Miguel%20Montero&pos=C&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=471083), Dustin Nippert (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dustin%20Nippert&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=430962)

As everyone already knows the Marlins are stacked and could be in contention by next year, and could possibly be in the hunt for the WC his year all though highly unlikely. This is likely the Marlins future rotation provided they don't trade Willis, all i can say is i look forward to seeing what this team can do once their payroll is back around the 60mil area instead of the 15.

SP
Name Age W-L SO/BB ERA WHIP
L Dontrelle Willis 24 3-6 46/29 4.32 1.41
R Josh Johnson 22 5-4 54/26 2.05 1.16
R Rickey Nolasco 23 4-3 36/14 3.06 1.36
L Scott Olsen 22 5-3 50/27 5.10 1.35 *since that incident with Girardi, hes 3-0 with a 2.18 ERA
+ Sergio Mitre/Harvey Garcia/Anibal Sanchez/Yusmeiro Petit

BP
R Logan Kensing 23
R Randy Messenger 24
L Jason Vargas 22
R Chris Resop 23
R Carlos Martinez 24
L Taylor Tankersly - Closer 23

They also have Travis Bowyer who is very Jenks-esk in a good way.

C - Miguel Olivo (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=400018) (former white sox) 27, currently batting .273, career is .235, so this might be a career year, but hes got a cannon on him, and i don't know if he's in their plans for the future but he might be.

1B - Mike Jacobs (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=408312) 25, after a horrid start he has got it going.

2B - Dan Uggla (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=462564) 26, his defense at times was questioned but never his bat, and it appears he is more than cabale at second base.

SS - Hanley Ramirez (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=434670) 22, all i can say about him is wow

3B - Miguel Cabrera (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=408234) 23, he is some kind of special.

LF - Reggie Abercrombie (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=430631) 25, has all the "tools" just needs to learn how to use them + Josh Willingham (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=425545) 27, is on the DL as of now.

CF - ??? this is the only position where they will need to acquire talent.

RF - Jeremy Hermida (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=435181) 22, lots of talent and plenty of time to live up to it.

I think if Joe Borowski (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=111244) continues to pitch well, someone is going to want him. Some Marlins fans think its going to be the reds. They think that they will want both Joe Borowski and Brian Moehler (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=119215) and possibly Sergio Mitre (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=429901) and in exchange the marlins would get Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Denorfia&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456121) giving them their CF of the future.

* sorry about the thread title its 5 in the morning. Florida

ilsox7
06-16-2006, 09:50 AM
While I love the talent the Marlins have compiled, they are 26-37, won't be anywhere near a playoff spot this year, and will be lucky to be .500 next year.

veeter
06-16-2006, 10:01 AM
I completely agree with the Marlin love. This organization IMO, drafts and develops better than any other. (The Sox are pretty close in some aspects.) In two or three years, in a very weak NL, the Marlins will be right in the thick of it again. They'll be seeking a THIRD championship in about ten years. Pretty damn good.

batmanZoSo
06-16-2006, 10:12 AM
I completely agree with the Marlin love. This organization IMO, drafts and develops better than any other. (The Sox are pretty close in some aspects.) In two or three years, in a very weak NL, the Marlins will be right in the thick of it again. They'll be seeking a THIRD championship in about ten years. Pretty damn good.

They really have a neat little formula working. We'll see if they can do it again within the next few years.

Beautox
06-16-2006, 10:27 AM
you realize since Since May 22, the Marlins have the 2nd best record in the majors second only to the Mets?

And also You realize that last year a certain team from Houston was written off and on an unrelated note a certain US hockey team from 1983.

I'm not saying the Marlins are going to be contenders this year, even though it's still possible but i highly doubt it. All though i would love to see them take the WC. But make no mistake they will be over .500 next year and will turn alot of heads especially if Borkowski is traded and Tankersly takes over the closer role full time.

Next year they will all have a season of MLB under their collective belts, and can go no where but up. They will have done it as a team with a chip on their shoulder. The marlins could possibly be in contention by next year even if they don't have a deal done yet, just by the shear talent on this team. They're only missing 1 possibly 2 pieces, possibly a C depending on the Olivo situation, but defiantly a CF.

buehrle4cy05
06-16-2006, 11:18 AM
If this team finishes with more than 70 wins, it will be a great building block for the future. Most of these guys are in their first year of MLB ball, so a season close to .500 can only mean good things for the future. We may be talking about the [location] Marlins reaching the World Series in less than 5 years.

rowand33
06-16-2006, 11:18 AM
I would love to see the Marlins make the playoffs. 9.5 games back right now from that wildcard. let's go fish!

mrfourni
06-16-2006, 11:26 AM
CF - ??? this is the only position where they will need to acquire talent.
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_400021.jpgI resent that

Beautox
06-16-2006, 11:26 AM
If this team finishes with more than 70 wins, it will be a great building block for the future. Most of these guys are in their first year of MLB ball, so a season close to .500 can only mean good things for the future. We may be talking about the [location] Marlins reaching the World Series in less than 5 years.

i too think they could be pushing for their 3rd WS title in ten years by 08, thats impressive. They're only 1.5 piece shy and thats CF and maybe a C. Abercrombie looks to be a 4thOF even though he has a ton of tools. I hope the [location] Marlins do what the tribe does, in the sense of locking up their young players for a long long time.

GO FISH :smile:

Chicken Dinner
06-16-2006, 11:30 AM
The Marlins should have all their revenue sharing returned until they spend more then 16 million on their team, not to mention that their stadium is a football stadium in the middle of a swamp.

Beautox
06-16-2006, 11:30 AM
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_400021.jpgI resent that

Oh LTP, time for you to move on the the CFL :wink:

Jjav829
06-16-2006, 11:33 AM
While I love the talent the Marlins have compiled, they are 26-37, won't be anywhere near a playoff spot this year, and will be lucky to be .500 next year.

Doesn't matter. They're building to be good in about 2-3 years, not this year or next year. What they need to do is get that stadium deal done now. If they can get a stadium deal reached as quickly as possible, they could maybe move into the new stadium in 2010. If things fall into place with their young players maturing, they could be looking at a situation where they are competing in 2008/2009. They could potentially be a championship contender the year before they move into the new stadium or the year that they actually do begin playing in the new stadium. That would be a nice way to get Marlins baseball popular in Florida.

On the field, they have some great, young talent. Hanley Ramirez has been great. Hermida is going to start hitting at some point and put up some nice numbers for them. With all the young arms they have stockpiled, they should be able to assemble a very good rotation.

I hope for the Marlins fans sake that they are finally able to get the stadium issue resolved so that they can build a team they can keep together for a while.

Beautox
06-16-2006, 11:37 AM
I think the [location] Marlins need to get out of Dodge. Portland/San Antiono/Vegas all sound very promising.

ilsox7
06-16-2006, 11:38 AM
Doesn't matter. They're building to be good in about 2-3 years, not this year or next year. What they need to do is get that stadium deal done now. If they can get a stadium deal reached as quickly as possible, they could maybe move into the new stadium in 2010. If things fall into place with their young players maturing, they could be looking at a situation where they are competing in 2008/2009. They could potentially be a championship contender the year before they move into the new stadium or the year that they actually do begin playing in the new stadium. That would be a nice way to get Marlins baseball popular in Florida.

On the field, they have some great, young talent. Hanley Ramirez has been great. Hermida is going to start hitting at some point and put up some nice numbers for them. With all the young arms they have stockpiled, they should be able to assemble a very good rotation.

I hope for the Marlins fans sake that they are finally able to get the stadium issue resolved so that they can build a team they can keep together for a while.

My comment was in reference to a previous post saying the Marlins would possibly contend for the Wild Card this year and would possibly be a playoff team next year. I agree with everything you said. They are on a plan that appears to be working, but does not include a playoff birth next year.

Beautox
06-16-2006, 11:45 AM
My comment was in reference to a previous post saying the Marlins would possibly contend for the Wild Card this year and would possibly be a playoff team next year. I agree with everything you said. They are on a plan that appears to be working, but does not include a playoff birth next year.

Honestly i don't know how you can write them off so fast for '07. Their starting rotation has the potential next year for everyone of them to be a 15 game winner if not more, they might all be 11 game winners this year and thats something to build on. Their infield is not only defensively sound but complete in every offensive aspect. Like i said they're missing one piece and thats a stud CF. Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Denorfia&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456121), could possibly be the answer seeing how the Reds will be looking for a playoff berth, and Denorfia is blocked in the reds OF (http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/06/stuck_in_the_mu.php).

ilsox7
06-16-2006, 11:50 AM
Honestly i don't know how you can write them off so fast for '07. Their starting rotation has the potential next year for everyone of them to be a 15 game winner if not more, they might all be 11 game winners this year and thats something to build on. Their infield is not only defensively sound but complete in every offensive aspect. Like i said they're missing one piece and thats a stud CF. Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Denorfia&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456121), could possibly be the answer seeing how the Reds will be looking for a playoff berth, and Denorfia is blocked in the reds OF (http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/06/stuck_in_the_mu.php).

I'll buy you a 6-pack of your choice if they make the playoffs next year.

Beautox
06-16-2006, 11:53 AM
Sold! I drink rolling rock.:gulp:

getonbckthr
06-16-2006, 01:20 PM
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_400021.jpg
Has Mr Borchard been hanging around with Freddy and Ricky Williams :smokin:

Banix12
06-16-2006, 04:32 PM
I was just over at www.marlinbaseball.com (http://www.marlinbaseball.com), keeping tabs on the games most talented up and coming team and i read that the marlins FO turned down a deal with Detroit(Verlander + Granderson) for D-Train, all i can say is WOW!, if they turned that down in the off season, I can only imagine what they might get if they trade him to either the Dodgers/D'Backs because a pitcher is going to define the winner out in the NL west and both teams have extensive farm systems.

If they delt with the Dbacks i've read from marlins fans this is what they would be looking to get in return for willis: Chris Young (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Young&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455759), Miguel Montero (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Miguel%20Montero&pos=C&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=471083), Dustin Nippert (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Dustin%20Nippert&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=430962)

As everyone already knows the Marlins are stacked and could be in contention by next year, and could possibly be in the hunt for the WC his year all though highly unlikely. This is likely the Marlins future rotation provided they don't trade Willis, all i can say is i look forward to seeing what this team can do once their payroll is back around the 60mil area instead of the 15.

SP
Name Age W-L SO/BB ERA WHIP
L Dontrelle Willis 24 3-6 46/29 4.32 1.41
R Josh Johnson 22 5-4 54/26 2.05 1.16
R Rickey Nolasco 23 4-3 36/14 3.06 1.36
L Scott Olsen 22 5-3 50/27 5.10 1.35 *since that incident with Girardi, hes 3-0 with a 2.18 ERA
+ Sergio Mitre/Harvey Garcia/Anibal Sanchez/Yusmeiro Petit

BP
R Logan Kensing 23
R Randy Messenger 24
L Jason Vargas 22
R Chris Resop 23
R Carlos Martinez 24
L Taylor Tankersly - Closer 23

They also have Travis Bowyer who is very Jenks-esk in a good way.

C - Miguel Olivo (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=400018) (former white sox) 27, currently batting .273, career is .235, so this might be a career year, but hes got a cannon on him, and i don't know if he's in their plans for the future but he might be.

1B - Mike Jacobs (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=408312) 25, after a horrid start he has got it going.

2B - Dan Uggla (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=462564) 26, his defense at times was questioned but never his bat, and it appears he is more than cabale at second base.

SS - Hanley Ramirez (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=434670) 22, all i can say about him is wow

3B - Miguel Cabrera (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=408234) 23, he is some kind of special.

LF - Reggie Abercrombie (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=430631) 25, has all the "tools" just needs to learn how to use them + Josh Willingham (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=425545) 27, is on the DL as of now.

CF - ??? this is the only position where they will need to acquire talent.

RF - Jeremy Hermida (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=435181) 22, lots of talent and plenty of time to live up to it.

I think if Joe Borowski (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=111244) continues to pitch well, someone is going to want him. Some Marlins fans think its going to be the reds. They think that they will want both Joe Borowski and Brian Moehler (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=119215) and possibly Sergio Mitre (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=429901) and in exchange the marlins would get Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Denorfia&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456121) giving them their CF of the future.

* sorry about the thread title its 5 in the morning. Florida

You forgot the other guy they stole off the cubs in the Pierre trade, Renyel Pinto. Throwing great at AAA and had a very nice MLB debut.

Eventually I think the marlins want to see if Eric Reed can play CF, but it just hasn't worked out yet. i'm not particularly enthusiastic about Reed but to each their own. Alfredo Amezega seems to be getting a lot of play there lately.

Borchard appears to be close to being demoted to 5th or 6th OF. I see Cody Ross is getting quite a bit of playing time.

rowand33
06-16-2006, 05:06 PM
i too think they could be pushing for their 3rd WS title in ten years by 08, thats impressive. They're only 1.5 piece shy and thats CF and maybe a C. Abercrombie looks to be a 4thOF even though he has a ton of tools. I hope the [location] Marlins do what the tribe does, in the sense of locking up their young players for a long long time.

GO FISH :smile:

If Olivo doesn't perform, Willingham will be the starting catcher. That's his natural position.

doublem23
06-16-2006, 05:08 PM
The Marlins suck, and will suck, for at least another year.

Banix12
06-16-2006, 07:28 PM
If Olivo doesn't perform, Willingham will be the starting catcher. That's his natural position.

Girardi doesn't seem willing to play him there. I don't think he thinks much of Willingham as a catcher. I think he is going to be an Outfielder from here on out.

DSpivack
06-16-2006, 07:37 PM
Mets, Braves, now Marlins? I guess WSI is on a midseason tour of the NL East. What about the Nats and Fillies?

caulfield12
06-16-2006, 08:28 PM
If Johnson becomes the Josh Beckett type he is projected to be, then the Marlins can deal Willis and get the final pieces to make the team more complete. Of course, they just might want to hold onto him and see if they can become competitive without dealing him (ala the Twins' dilemma with Santana, Hunter and rebuilding).

I think it's interesting they are already discussing trading Chris Young from the D-Backs. He has been playing really well the last 2-3 weeks in AAA.

Ramirez has been impressive. I've also like Uggla from an offensive standpoint when I've seen him, and Jacobs as well.

Trading those three pitchers for a rent-a-player might be worse than the Ramirez deal was for the Pirates, especially considering all the pitching issues that the Cubs now have...not unlike us trading Fogg and Wells to get half a pitcher in Ritchie. Two of those guys would probably be filling in the spots of Wood, Miller and Prior.

Banix12
06-16-2006, 10:49 PM
If Johnson becomes the Josh Beckett type he is projected to be, then the Marlins can deal Willis and get the final pieces to make the team more complete. Of course, they just might want to hold onto him and see if they can become competitive without dealing him (ala the Twins' dilemma with Santana, Hunter and rebuilding).

I think it's interesting they are already discussing trading Chris Young from the D-Backs. He has been playing really well the last 2-3 weeks in AAA.

Ramirez has been impressive. I've also like Uggla from an offensive standpoint when I've seen him, and Jacobs as well.

Trading those three pitchers for a rent-a-player might be worse than the Ramirez deal was for the Pirates, especially considering all the pitching issues that the Cubs now have...not unlike us trading Fogg and Wells to get half a pitcher in Ritchie. Two of those guys would probably be filling in the spots of Wood, Miller and Prior.

If Pinto and Nolasco were still with the cubs the cubs would have never had the patience to let them learn their craft up in the majors. The cubs have a lot of talented young pitchers hanging around AAA and the major league team with good stuff that were higher on the organizational depth chart than the guys they traded. Hill, Ryu, Guzman, Marmol, Marshall, Jerome Williams. The problem is they make one mistake and they get shuttled back to Iowa. Oddly enough I think Marmol and Marshall were the only guys below the Marlins pitchers on the depth chart and they have gotten the best results really.

It's quite Similar to the Dontrelle Willis trade. To the cubs he was just another farmhand who was going to be stuck in the minors, to the marlins he was someone they could let learn in the majors. If Willis were still a cub he probably wouldn't be where he is today. Same probably goes for Garland.

I think they trade Willis, they currently have enough organizational depth at pitching to round out the staff. He might not get traded at the deadline though, they have the luxury of time and can wait for the best deal.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-16-2006, 10:54 PM
The Marlins suck, and will suck, for at least another year.

Florida payroll $14mil, Cubs payroll $94mil. Better record, Florida. That is incredible.

Sox-o-matic
06-16-2006, 11:50 PM
I think they trade Willis, they currently have enough organizational depth at pitching to round out the staff. He might not get traded at the deadline though, they have the luxury of time and can wait for the best deal.

If the Tigers really did offer Verlander and Granderson for Willis and that wasn't enough to get a deal done, I don't know what they would be waiting for.

It would seem to me that the Marlins would be better off trading Dontrelle now. He's had so much success in the past that it would be hard for him to become even better considering the team he's playing for isn't a contender. His numbers with just get worse this year, he'll get older and closer to FA, and his value will go down.

Beautox
06-16-2006, 11:55 PM
You forgot the other guy they stole off the cubs in the Pierre trade, Renyel Pinto. Throwing great at AAA and had a very nice MLB debut.

Eventually I think the marlins want to see if Eric Reed can play CF, but it just hasn't worked out yet. i'm not particularly enthusiastic about Reed but to each their own. Alfredo Amezega seems to be getting a lot of play there lately.

Borchard appears to be close to being demoted to 5th or 6th OF. I see Cody Ross is getting quite a bit of playing time.

true, i didn't mention Pinto, but thats because hes 5or6 deep behind all the talented pitchers they have. Honestly i don't think Mitre is going to be in their rotation if its going to be anyone to round it out (provided they keep willis) its going to be Anibal Sanchez (http://www.soxprospects.com/players/sanchez-anibal.htm). Reed had the job and lost it in ST.

Beautox
06-17-2006, 12:04 AM
I think they trade Willis, they currently have enough organizational depth at pitching to round out the staff. He might not get traded at the deadline though, they have the luxury of time and can wait for the best deal.

I don't think they will trade Willis or Miggy, they're the face of that team, and if they hope to get anything acomplished with regards to a deal they'll need both of them + they're both extreamly cheap. I can't wait to see what they get for Borowski after watching the game tonight the reds are in dire need of BP help.

Beautox
06-17-2006, 12:18 AM
If the Tigers really did offer Verlander and Granderson for Willis and that wasn't enough to get a deal done, I don't know what they would be waiting for.

It would seem to me that the Marlins would be better off trading Dontrelle now. He's had so much success in the past that it would be hard for him to become even better considering the team he's playing for isn't a contender. His numbers with just get worse this year, he'll get older and closer to FA, and his value will go down.

LOL!, Willis is only 24!!!!!, and hes already won ROY, has a WS ring on his finger, and last year came in second for NLCY voting. He maybe struggling this year but he hasn't even peaked.

Like I said, I truly think the Marlins could seriously be in contention by next year. There is just so much talent and they already have a better record(27-37) then the Cubs/Pirates/Royals and for a fraction of the price. All Sox fans know what wins: pitching and defense. The marlins aside from CF are strong up the middle and have the youngest and most talented pitching staff in all of baseball. Their infield is ridiculous and complete in every offensive aspect Uggla (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=462564), Jacobs (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=408312), Ramirez (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=434670), and Cabrera (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=408234), have it all, speed/contact/power. I realize they strike out at an alarming rate but they're only getting better.

Banix12
06-17-2006, 12:28 AM
If the Tigers really did offer Verlander and Granderson for Willis and that wasn't enough to get a deal done, I don't know what they would be waiting for.

It would seem to me that the Marlins would be better off trading Dontrelle now. He's had so much success in the past that it would be hard for him to become even better considering the team he's playing for isn't a contender. His numbers with just get worse this year, he'll get older and closer to FA, and his value will go down.

I think the issue is sometimes you can't get the best deals at the trade deadline because you are only trading to probably less than half the teams, and sometimes those teams don't have the great prospects.. After the season is over teams can usually find better deals because there is more competition in the market.

Hense why the Marlins can get 3 pitchers for Juan Pierre. I don't think they could have gotten that at the trade deadline last season.

He will get traded in the next six months though.

doublem23
06-17-2006, 02:27 AM
Florida payroll $14mil, Cubs payroll $94mil. Better record, Florida. That is incredible.

No it's not, the Cubs are a collection of overpaid, talentless assclowns. What's incredible is that there is somehow a team in their division worse than them.

Banix12
06-17-2006, 03:00 AM
No it's not, the Cubs are a collection of overpaid, talentless assclowns. What's incredible is that there is somehow a team in their division worse than them.

By 1 game in the standings, give it time. By the middle of next week I'm sure they'll be firmly entrenched in the basement of the NL.

And actually even though the cubs are up one game in the standings, the Pirates hit better and somehow have a lower team ERA. If not for the April where the Pirates won all of 7 games they would already be ahead of the cubs.

Beautox
06-17-2006, 04:44 AM
For a little comparison.
'05 Astros record at this time was 25-35, and they were written off, but they made it all the way to the world series.

'03 Marlins record at this time was 29-34, and they were 13.5 games behind in the WC. That team won the WS. that year they were predicted to win the NL East.

'06 Marlins 27-37, this team is extremely talented and loaded in pitching depth in ways that would make K-Dub :drool:. When they deal Borowski + Moehler + [insert name of pitching prospect, possibly Mitre] they will most likely get their CF of the future aka Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Denorfia&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456121). The reds need bullpen help asap. As for the final member of the Marlins rotation once Moehler is gone, just plug in any of these names Harvey Garcia (http://www.soxprospects.com/players/garcia-harvey.htm)/Anibal Sanchez (http://www.soxprospects.com/players/sanchez-anibal.htm)/Yusmeiro Petit (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Yusmeiro%20Petit&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=433589)/Renyel Pinto (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Renyel%20Pinto&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=430594)

Something about The WildCard and The Marlins = WS

nothing is impossible :wink:

TornLabrum
06-17-2006, 09:11 AM
By 1 game in the standings, give it time. By the middle of next week I'm sure they'll be firmly entrenched in the basement of the NL.

And actually even though the cubs are up one game in the standings, the Pirates hit better and somehow have a lower team ERA. If not for the April where the Pirates won all of 7 games they would already be ahead of the cubs.

That will change soon. Prior (aka Messiah XXXVIII) may be back as soon as tomorrow.

Grzegorz
06-18-2006, 06:49 AM
If the Tigers really did offer Verlander and Granderson for Willis and that wasn't enough to get a deal done, I don't know what they would be waiting for.

It would seem to me that the Marlins would be better off trading Dontrelle now. He's had so much success in the past that it would be hard for him to become even better considering the team he's playing for isn't a contender. His numbers with just get worse this year, he'll get older and closer to FA, and his value will go down.

That's what makes the Tiger's offer, if accurate, that much harder to understand. Willis is a known commodity. Why give up a pitcher with a big upside and a player who has the ability to solve your CF situation for Willis?

Beautox
06-18-2006, 05:39 PM
The Marlins swept the Blue Jays, wow.

munchman33
06-18-2006, 05:58 PM
I think its funny that 90% of this board was calling the Marlins organization and ownership classless at the beginning of the season for the roster they put together.

We're gonna need a lot of crow for this one.

FedEx227
06-18-2006, 06:30 PM
For a little comparison.
'05 Astros record at this time was 25-35, and they were written off, but they made it all the way to the world series.

'03 Marlins record at this time was 29-34, and they were 13.5 games behind in the WC. That team won the WS. that year they were predicted to win the NL East.

'06 Marlins 27-37, this team is extremely talented and loaded in pitching depth in ways that would make K-Dub :drool:. When they deal Borowski + Moehler + [insert name of pitching prospect, possibly Mitre] they will most likely get their CF of the future aka Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Denorfia&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456121). The reds need bullpen help asap. As for the final member of the Marlins rotation once Moehler is gone, just plug in any of these names Harvey Garcia (http://www.soxprospects.com/players/garcia-harvey.htm)/Anibal Sanchez (http://www.soxprospects.com/players/sanchez-anibal.htm)/Yusmeiro Petit (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Yusmeiro%20Petit&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=433589)/Renyel Pinto (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Renyel%20Pinto&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=430594)

Something about The WildCard and The Marlins = WS

nothing is impossible :wink:
...it's pretty hard to make a comparison from last years Astros to this years Marlins. I will give the Marlins the benefit of the doubt, they've put together a nice team for the future. But to make a comparison to a team featuring Andy Pettitte, Roger Clemens and Roy Oswalt at the top of their rotation is a bit of a strech.

I believe you might be confusing potential with talent a little too much. I'm not trying to attack you or the Marlins, but to say "this team is extremely talented and loaded in pitching depth" is just confusing pure potential with amazing talent. I do like the team, and think they'll be exciting for awhile but lets not go over our heads here, none of these guys in the rotation, outside of D-Train, have a track record of any true pro-longed major league success (understandably slow) and until they SHOW that they can win 11 games in a season you can't immediately pencil them in for 15 in the next year, baseball just doesn't work that way.

Beautox
06-18-2006, 06:32 PM
or some people claiming that they should give back their "welfare check" to MLB, when infact in '05 they bumped their payroll and have tried on numerous times to get fans in the seats. The truth of the matter is that their stadium is horrid and until they get a new one, no one will be going to watch baseball in south Florida.

On another note, the marilns could very well be in contention for the WC, with or with out Joe Borowski, they only need a real CF, and there is talk of possibly getting Crawford from the D-Rays. The marlins have the most young pitching depth between mlb/milb level, and thats what the rays need.

Beautox
06-18-2006, 06:47 PM
...it's pretty hard to make a comparison from last years Astros to this years Marlins. I will give the Marlins the benefit of the doubt, they've put together a nice team for the future. But to make a comparison to a team featuring Andy Pettitte, Roger Clemens and Roy Oswalt at the top of their rotation is a bit of a strech.

I completely understand that logic, but the fact remains the '05 astros underachieved, and then started clicking and got all the way to the WS. Willis came in second place last year for the NLCY, the Marlins pitching staff is beyond talented. They have a proven left handed ace in Willis, and Olsen looks to also be a #1 and hes left handed, and Nolaso and Johnson look to be #2/#3s and Brian Moehler is not going to be on the Marlins by years end.

We as sox fans know pitching and defense and timely hitting wins.

Miggy hasn't been producing at the level hes capable of and Ramirez has been slumping big time, and yet they've won 8 in a row.

I think its time people start taking this young marlin team serious.

The Kids Can Play ;)

viagracat
06-18-2006, 07:49 PM
The Marlins swept the Blue Jays, wow.

I think Joe Girardi may be one of the best managers in baseball. There were rumors of him going to the Yankees for awhile when Torre was on the hot seat. He seems very intelligent and really knows how to motivate players. I'm not surprised the Marlins are better than anyone gave them credit for.

Sox-o-matic
06-18-2006, 08:55 PM
I completely understand that logic, but the fact remains the '05 astros underachieved, and then started clicking and got all the way to the WS. Willis came in second place last year for the NLCY, the Marlins pitching staff is beyond talented. They have a proven left handed ace in Willis, and Olsen looks to also be a #1 and hes left handed, and Nolaso and Johnson look to be #2/#3s and Brian Moehler is not going to be on the Marlins by years end.

We as sox fans know pitching and defense and timely hitting wins.

Miggy hasn't been producing at the level hes capable of and Ramirez has been slumping big time, and yet they've won 8 in a row.

I think its time people start taking this young marlin team serious.

The Kids Can Play ;)

Yes, these kids can play, but I wouldn't start penciling in their starters as above average major league players just yet. Remember how awesome Jody Garrett looked for a little while in Cleveland? Young players can fall off the map quicker than any veteran ever could. I think the Marlins have most of the pieces in place to make a serious run in a couple years, but until then I don't even think the organization knows what to expect, let alone the average baseball fan.

Hendu
06-18-2006, 11:42 PM
I think its funny that 90% of this board was calling the Marlins organization and ownership classless at the beginning of the season for the roster they put together.

We're gonna need a lot of crow for this one.

Nah, the Marlins ownership is still classless, but not their organization (GM, scouting, etc). Jeff Loria ran the Expos into the ground and now he's doing the same thing in South Florida.

I hope that, if the Marlins move, MLB will force Loria to sell before the move. Loria has had 2 shots, and he's failed both times. He can't blame attendance or crappy stadiums, etc. He knew what he was getting into in both situations.

Also, the Marlins are fun to watch and I hope they continue to improve, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. They still haven't done anything, and there's no guarantee that they will.

mmmmmbeeer
06-19-2006, 12:31 AM
Am I the only one who finds it really hard to believe that 1.) detroit would offer those two studs for a single SP whose #'s aren't any better than verlander's and 2.) that FLA would turn down such a lopsided deal. I doubt the vailidity of this deal ever being on the table.

Beautox
06-19-2006, 01:56 AM
Am I the only one who finds it really hard to believe that 1.) detroit would offer those two studs for a single SP whose #'s aren't any better than verlander's and 2.) that FLA would turn down such a lopsided deal. I doubt the vailidity of this deal ever being on the table.

I'm sorry but coming into this year, after what Willis had done it doesn't seem that lopsided if in fact it is true.

Willis was 22-10 last season, had a 2.63ERA, 7CG, 5SHO, well over 200IP, 55BB, 170K, and a 1.13 WHIP.

Granderson Coming into 06 had only played in 56 games and only had 187 ABs.

Verlander on the other hand had only started in two games in '05 and they weren't that impressive (obviously it was too small of a sample size), and he was just a prospect with a ton of talent that hadn't proven himself at the ML level, Willis had.

Ol' No. 2
06-19-2006, 01:39 PM
While the Marlins have some great young talent, you don't win championships with young talent. And by the time they get experience, they will also be getting more expensive. I wouldn't bet the farm that Loria will pay them.

Beautox
06-19-2006, 01:42 PM
While the Marlins have some great young talent, you don't win championships with young talent. And by the time they get experience, they will also be getting more expensive. I wouldn't bet the farm that Loria will pay them.

why wouldn't he? in '05 he bumped the payroll up to 60million, if the fans would come they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with and the braves last year fieled alot of rookies not nearly on the level of the marlins but i digress.

the fish are only 5 games behind the Reds in the wild card standings.

They're 17-6 in their last 23 (.739)

Most Impressive

Ol' No. 2
06-19-2006, 01:49 PM
why wouldn't he? in '05 he bumped the payroll up to 60million, if the fans would come they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with and the braves last year fieled alot of rookies not nearly on the level of the marlins but i digress.

the fish are only 5 games behind the Reds in the wild card standings.

They're 17-6 in their last 23 (.739)

Most ImpressiveLots of team put together nice 23-game stretches. Too bad the season is 162 games.

I don't think he'll bump payroll because he wants a crappy team. He's pulling a Rachel Phelps. I don't think he's ever going to get his new stadium in south Florida and he wants to build a case for moving. The last thing he wants is for fans to start showing up.

caulfield12
06-19-2006, 01:51 PM
It's looking a little like the same situation in KC with David Glass.

He is nothing like Ewing Kauffman. He will become the Art Modell of baseball when he goes...

FedEx227
06-19-2006, 05:36 PM
why wouldn't he? in '05 he bumped the payroll up to 60million, if the fans would come they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with and the braves last year fieled alot of rookies not nearly on the level of the marlins but i digress.


Can you really blame the fans though? They came in 1997 and we're promptly treated as Ol' Wayne's money-making circus.

I don't blame Florida fans for not going to Marlin games, after two fire sales in less then 10 years its clear the organization doesn't have long-term aspirations.

A World Series run here and there is fantastic, but to build a fan-base prolonged success is necessary (or you can just advertise hope and nice weather)

caulfield12
06-19-2006, 07:18 PM
Unfortunately, the weather is not always so nice, with sweltering heat and humidity for most of the summer...but I donīt like domes either.

Beautox
06-21-2006, 12:10 AM
The Marlins won again tonight, thats 9 straight beating the O's, Dan Uggla should be the starting 2B at the ASG but i think it will goto utley.

Flight #24
06-21-2006, 12:28 AM
The Marlins won again tonight, thats 9 straight beating the O's, Dan Uggla should be the starting 2B at the ASG but i think it will goto utley.

Whatever one may think of Loria, to rebuild and so far, look like you're doing it fairly successfully makes it look like his FO knows what they're doing.

It's a long season and it remains to be seen whether or not they can keep it up, but this team is near .500, and with pretty much all young talent (and more in the minors). That makes it seem highly likely that they'll be contending in the not-too-distant future, and do it pretty cheaply.

Beautox
06-21-2006, 01:55 AM
here is a question i purpose to everyone reading this, IF and this is a big IF, the marlins some how get the WC is this good or bad for baseball and the upcoming CBA?

The Marlins are so stacked in milb pitching its sick, their rotation projects to have 3 #1s , 1 #2 & 1 #3, wow. As for their BP that too is stacked, there are at least 10 extremely talented pitching prospects chomping at the bit to break the 25 man roster.

Like some have already said it remains to be seen if their young pitching can keep it up this year, but next year watch out. They're only missing 1.5 piece a CF and maybe a C. I think Abercrombie is going to be a 4th OF, he needs to go back to AAA and work on some things. I also think they will be dealing Borowski + Moheler to the reds, people in Cincinnati are hungry for the post season and the reds need BP help, a long relief guy(Moheler) and another setup man(Borowski). Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Denorfia&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456121) is blocked since Dunn requested to be moved back to LF and they apparently love Hatterburg. Denorfia also isn't getting any younger (26).