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caulfield12
06-13-2006, 08:19 PM
story that pretty much brutalizes him....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/06/13/problem.positions/index.html

chisoxfanatic
06-13-2006, 08:23 PM
I certainly hope that Brian:

a. does not read things in the media
or, if he does
b. has thick skin.


There is very little positive writings about him, even though he has pulled his weight defensively. All we're asking for is for him to try out there offensively (not constantly swinging at everything), and it looks like he could turn a corner here. He's a rookie and can only get better!

caulfield12
06-13-2006, 08:27 PM
Well, letīs hope the last two games are signs of a positive, last turnaround for BA...Iīm not sure how many stories like this a rookie can be subjected to before KW and OG pull the plug. Fortunately (or unfortunately) depending on how one looks at it, he seems to be here for at least the rest of June, barring a surprising trade.

chisoxfanatic
06-13-2006, 08:29 PM
Well, letīs hope the last two games are signs of a positive, last turnaround for BA...Iīm not sure how many stories like this a rookie can be subjected to before KW and OG pull the plug. Fortunately (or unfortunately) depending on how one looks at it, he seems to be here for at least the rest of June, barring a surprising trade.

The good thing is that, when Ozzie shows confidence in someone, they usually seem to work out.

QCIASOXFAN
06-13-2006, 08:36 PM
It does pretty much brutalize him but hes just calling it like he sees it. Those stats don't lie. Hes on the climb now though:smile:

kravdog
06-13-2006, 08:36 PM
The good thing is that, when Ozzie shows confidence in someone, they usually seem to work out.

and when he doesnt....damaso marte...

caulfield12
06-13-2006, 08:37 PM
Except for those who don´t show enough confidence in themselves....like Politte (I guess he gets the benefit of the doubt due to injury for now) and Garland. Well, Garland doesn´t deserve any more rope (see Ozzie´s recent comments, which are about as strong as he gets in calling a player out on his OWN team), and OG left Garland out there quite a few times when JM would have given him the early hook.

With Ozuna, OG has seemed to work wonders, on a limited basis. Crede and Rowand really came into their own as well under his guidance. Contreras and Cotts as well.

Forgot Marte...Willie Harris too, to a lesser extent.

Chisox003
06-13-2006, 08:45 PM
I've said it a million times if I've said it once....

Brian Anderson is going to be an outstanding CF....this year. Come October, I have no doubts that he'll be out there for us then, and for many years to come. He's going to be a stud.

Articles like this don't change my mind a bit.

JackParkman25
06-13-2006, 08:58 PM
In my opinion, Anderson is turning it around and I believe he is one of best defensive centerfielders in the game right now. I was at a game against Seattle a month or so ago and it was one of the best Sox games I have ever been too. Well, to keep it simple, Anderson made a stretched out catch that saved the game for the Sox and was one of the best catches I have ever seen. It was unfortunately overshadowed by a clutch Pablo bigfly and a Uribe game winning hit. Anderson will turn it around and I think he is already

Hitmen77
06-13-2006, 10:10 PM
This guy writes this article just before BA has three good nights at the plate. I love it! Maybe Verducci can write an article about Garland and Politte next? :wink:

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:06 PM
story that pretty much brutalizes him....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/06/13/problem.positions/index.html

Tom Verducci doesn't watch the White Sox everyday, all he does is look at statistics. He's going to be fine, and can shove it up Verducci's ass.

ondafarm
06-13-2006, 11:12 PM
I don't think much of the analysis. The stats he's looking at are deceptive.

soxfanreggie
06-13-2006, 11:13 PM
Just imagine our offense when he starts hitting his weight or above it!

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:15 PM
I don't think much of the analysis. The stats he's looking at are deceptive.

And that's exactly why so many of these "analysts" look like idiots. All they do is look at stats. You need to see for your own eyes before you go ahead and assume that he's not ready for the majors. Statistics can help a lot, but at the same time, like you said, they can be very deceptive.

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:18 PM
This article is a joke.

Solution: Loni Anderson, Laurie Anderson, Louie Anderson, Sparky Anderson ... any Anderson but this one. Chicago could swing a trade for Ken Griffey Jr., as it tried to do last year
:hawk
"Where's he gonna play?!"

Banix12
06-13-2006, 11:21 PM
Maybe he turns it into bulletin board material.

It's been a bad stretch for him certainly but there is reason for optimism.

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:21 PM
He's the worst everyday player in the majors, they need an upgrade if they want to win again. White Sox are now in the same category as the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels. They are expected to win every year, they have the money now to do it, and they can't sit around and wait for .160 hitters to come around. A few years ago you would wait for a guy like Anderson to develope because that was your only option. The Sox no longer have that option when the goal of the season is World Series or bust.

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:24 PM
He's the worst everyday player in the majors, they need an upgrade if they want to win again. White Sox are now in the same category as the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels. They are expected to win every year, they have the money now to do it, and they can't sit around and wait for .160 hitters to come around. A few years ago you would wait for a guy like Anderson to develope because that was your only option. The Sox no longer have that option when the goal of the season is World Series or bust.

:dumbpeople:

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:27 PM
He's the worst everyday player in the majors, they need an upgrade if they want to win again. White Sox are now in the same category as the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels. They are expected to win every year, they have the money now to do it, and they can't sit around and wait for .160 hitters to come around. A few years ago you would wait for a guy like Anderson to develope because that was your only option. The Sox no longer have that option when the goal of the season is World Series or bust.
If they want to win again? Newsflash: The Sox have won 6 out of their last 8. That's terrible...

If you're talking about another World Series, Brian isn't going to hit .160 the whole year. By the way, two days ago it was .150 that you were saying...and next week it will be .170 or .180, and so on; then you're going to be wishing you didn't even say anything.

Tragg
06-13-2006, 11:28 PM
He's the worst everyday player in the majors, they need an upgrade if they want to win again. Defensively, he's one of the best at his position, he's only a rookie and the Sox ARE winning - AGAIN.

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:28 PM
:dumbpeople:

Cute, how about you think of an arguement, get some backup for your arguement and present it. Anderson hurts them more than he helps them, and they will suffer if he continues to play like this in CF. The Tigers, Indians, Yankees, Red Sox, etc would love to see BA batting 9th come October.

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:30 PM
Cute, how about you think of an arguement, get some backup for your arguement and present it. Anderson hurts them more than he helps them, and they will suffer if he continues to play like this in CF. The Tigers, Indians, Yankees, Red Sox, etc would love to see BA batting 9th come October.

I'd come up with an argument if I felt I needed to make one.

But just to play along, here's one:

40-24, .625

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:30 PM
Defensively, he's one of the best at his position, he's only a rookie and the Sox ARE winning - AGAIN.

I'm not doubting his defense, but his offense costs them more runs than he saves.

rdwj
06-13-2006, 11:32 PM
Seems to me that last year all the "experts" were saying that our team wasn't good enough to be a serious contender - let alone WS Champs.

It's kinda nice to see some doubt. Something tells me that we'll be sending the text back to the author at some point in the year with LOL in the subject line.

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:32 PM
I'd come up with an argument if I felt I needed to make one.

But just to play along, here's one:

40-24, .625

Why not 44-20? Whats wrong with winning a few extra games? Need I remind you they are in 2nd place....

rdwj
06-13-2006, 11:32 PM
I'm not doubting his defense, but his offense costs them more runs than he saves.

:rolleyes:

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:34 PM
Cute, how about you think of an arguement, get some backup for your arguement and present it. Anderson hurts them more than he helps them, and they will suffer if he continues to play like this in CF. The Tigers, Indians, Yankees, Red Sox, etc would love to see BA batting 9th come October.

I'm willing to bet they will care. You have absolutely no reason to say that BA cannot turn his season around. Brian has talent, and he is major league ready, but he's slumped. You're just saying he can't for the sake of saying, "I told you so," if he does, by chance, fail.

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:34 PM
Why not 44-20? Whats wrong with winning a few extra games? Need I remind you they are in 2nd place....

You're telling me that we'd have won four more games if BA were hitting say, .250?

Why am I even playing along with you?

rdwj
06-13-2006, 11:34 PM
Why not 44-20? Whats wrong with winning a few extra games? Need I remind you they are in 2nd place....

I guess there is no point in trying to explain to someone that doesn't understand the value of a great defensive CF that being in 2nd place in June doesn't really matter much.

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:36 PM
I guess there is no point in trying to explain to someone that doesn't understand the value of a great defensive CF that being in 2nd place in June doesn't really matter much.

Exactly.

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:37 PM
.100 point rise in average is worth more than you think, I also know that if he were hitting better, he stays in the lineup, and he catches a few balls that Macowiak couldn't get to. Lets not forget the Toronto game when he had a nifty 8 left on base...

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:38 PM
Why not 44-20? Whats wrong with winning a few extra games? Need I remind you they are in 2nd place....

The whole team has underachieved, not just Brian. Did we have anyone to replace him? No. I'm willing to bet our second half record is much better than our first half. This team has not played to it's potential, as a whole, you can't just add 4 games to our record because one guy has batted .160.

The less games Brian would have played, the more losses we would get from Mackowiak's glove. It all evens out, so don't even tell me that we should be 4 games better because of Brian. If you want to talk about the whole team; our overall pitching, defense, and timely hitting, then you can say we should have more wins. But to blame it on one guy is a stretch.

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:40 PM
.100 point rise in average is worth more than you think, I also know that if he were hitting better, he stays in the lineup, and he catches a few balls that Macowiak couldn't get to. Lets not forget the Toronto game when he had a nifty 8 left on base...
The plan by Ozzie/Kenny was a bad one, IMO. Brian struggled through the first month (of his rookie season, BTW), and was stripped of his starting job. How you expect a kid to start hitting the ball when he's not seeing regular at-bats, is beyond me. They should have stuck by him from the beginning, and I think we would have already seen results. Instead Brian saw less playing time, and he's only going to get worse when he only plays once every 2 or 3 days. Notice how much he's improved in the last three days? Fouling pitches off, hitting them up the middle, down the line, a straight-away center homerun...give the kid at-bats, and he can work out his problems. Sit him against tough pitchers, and he's never going to hit tough pitching.

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:40 PM
I guess there is no point in trying to explain to someone that doesn't understand the value of a great defensive CF that being in 2nd place in June doesn't really matter much.

He's far from "great"

Rowand is great.
Hunter is great.
Jones is great.
Mays was great.

Don't tarnish the word "great" by using to to describe Anderson's defense...

Good, but not close to being "great"

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:41 PM
It all evens out, so don't even tell me that we should be 4 games better because of Brian.

I dunno...this guy is a "stathead".

Even when BA starts doing well, people want to dog on him...it's getting reeeeeally old.

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:44 PM
He's far from "great"

Rowand is great.
Hunter is great.
Jones is great.
Mays was great.

Don't tarnish the word "great" by using to to describe Anderson's defense...

Good, but not close to being "great"

I LOVE Aaron, I really do...but ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Aaron is a solid defensive CF, without question. But BA is making catches Rowand could only dream of. Plus, I'll take BA's arm over A-Row's any day.

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:45 PM
He's far from "great"

Rowand is great.
Hunter is great.
Jones is great.
Mays was great.

Don't tarnish the word "great" by using to to describe Anderson's defense...

Good, but not close to being "great"
Rowand is a better centerfielder than Anderson?? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'm not even going to argue with you anymore. There is no way that Aaron Rowand is a better defensive centerfielder than Anderson. Brian Anderson is one of the best centerfielders in the game, end of story. Maybe you don't notice him because he doesn't make diving plays, but there's a reason for that. He gets under everything and only has to dive for very tough plays. Brian will make what looks like a good play for most centerfielders (see: Rowand), look easy; and make plays good plays on balls that most centerfielders won't even get to. Did you see that play on Friday (Hafner hit it), I guarantee Rowand would have never gotten to that.

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:46 PM
Since when is going 0-3 doing "well"? Since when is hitting a HR in garbage time off a pitcher thats hardly a major leaguer doing "well". Kenny WILL make a deal for a CFer and Brian will go back to the Knights where he can develope or he will be included in that deal.

rdwj
06-13-2006, 11:46 PM
He's far from "great"

Rowand is great.
Hunter is great.
Jones is great.
Mays was great.

Don't tarnish the word "great" by using to to describe Anderson's defense...

Good, but not close to being "great"

LOL!

Anderson is already better than Rowand on D. He's right up there with the best of them.

Rowand is great - :roflmao: :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::rofl mao:

hi im skot
06-13-2006, 11:47 PM
Since when is going 0-3 doing "well"? Since when is hitting a HR in garbage time off a pitcher thats hardly a major leaguer doing "well". Kenny WILL make a deal for a CFer and Brian will go back to the Knights where he can develope or he will be included in that deal.

Aaaaaand..."IGNORE"

StatHead21
06-13-2006, 11:49 PM
Rowand is a better centerfielder than Anderson?? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'm not even going to argue with you anymore. There is no way that Aaron Rowand is a better defensive centerfielder than Anderson. Brian Anderson is one of the best centerfielders in the game, end of story. Maybe you don't notice him because he doesn't make diving plays, but there's a reason for that. He gets under everything and only has to dive for very tough plays. Brian will make what looks like a good play for most centerfielders (see: Rowand), look easy; and make plays good plays on balls that most centerfielders won't even get to.

White Sox vs Yankees in NY last season, need I say more? Rowand was the best defensive CFer in the game last season hands down.

Hendu
06-13-2006, 11:51 PM
Why not 44-20? Whats wrong with winning a few extra games? Need I remind you they are in 2nd place....

Woah...didn't realize BA has been coming out of the bullpen. Sure, the lack of offense from our # 9 hitter is the reason we're in 2nd place :rolleyes:

Last I checked, we're 5-1 against that 1st place team. The Kittens have also been beat up so far this year by Boston and New York. They have their own problems to worry about.

rdwj
06-13-2006, 11:51 PM
White Sox vs Yankees in NY last season, need I say more? Rowand was the best defensive CFer in the game last season hands down.

Anderson would have made EVERY SINGLE ONE of those plays and probably wouldn't have had to leave his feet to do it.

You're posts are quickly spiraling toward lunacy.

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:51 PM
White Sox vs Yankees in NY last season, need I say more? Rowand was the best defensive CFer in the game last season hands down.

:roflmao:

That's a big outfield, and Anderson could have made every single one of the plays, and more...it probably wouldn't even be a big deal, either, because Brian would be under at least two of those, and not have to dive. I guarantee it...you know why? Because Rowand doesn't even match up to Anderson defensively.

Hendu
06-13-2006, 11:54 PM
White Sox vs Yankees in NY last season, need I say more? Rowand was the best defensive CFer in the game last season hands down.

How about those 2 misplayed balls against Cleveland the last week of last season? Both late in huge games, and in in key situations.

JorgeFabregas
06-13-2006, 11:55 PM
He's far from "great"

Rowand is great.
Hunter is great.
Jones is great.
Mays was great.

Don't tarnish the word "great" by using to to describe Anderson's defense...

Good, but not close to being "great" Here are some stats for you
Anderson (2006) FPCT 1.000 (T-1) RF 3.2 (2) ZR .914 (6)
Rowand (2006) FPCT .975 (21) RF 2.62 (12) ZR .889 (12)
Rowand (2005) FPCT .992 (5) RF 2.57 (8) ZR .939 (2)
Anderson leads Rowand in all the major defensive stats (fielding percentage, Range Factor, and Zone Rating). His stats suggest that he is one of the elite centerfielders in the game (1st, 2nd, and 6th in those respective categories among qualifying major league centerfielders). Rowand had a nice defensive year in 2005, but the stats don't suggest that he was any better than Anderson has been.

oeo
06-13-2006, 11:56 PM
How about those 2 misplayed balls against Cleveland the last week of last season? Both late in huge games, and in in key situations.
Or how about the misplayed balls in the postseason? Rowand works hard, he will run for every ball with all he's got, and plays with a lot of heart. But Rowand is far from a great centerfielder. Brian Anderson is multiple Gold Glove caliber, I don't think you can say the same about Rowand.

TaylorStSox
06-13-2006, 11:57 PM
He's far from "great"

Rowand is great.
Hunter is great.
Jones is great.
Mays was great.

Don't tarnish the word "great" by using to to describe Anderson's defense...

Good, but not close to being "great"

Anderson's a better defender than both Rowand and Hunter. Jones is the premier CF in baseball. I'd be willing to bet that he ranks among the all time greats. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see Mays play. I can't compare.

TornLabrum
06-13-2006, 11:58 PM
Since when is going 0-3 doing "well"? Since when is hitting a HR in garbage time off a pitcher thats hardly a major leaguer doing "well". Kenny WILL make a deal for a CFer and Brian will go back to the Knights where he can develope or he will be included in that deal.

Let's just cut the crap and get down to what you are:

:dtroll:

chisoxfanatic
06-14-2006, 12:00 AM
He's the worst everyday player in the majors, they need an upgrade if they want to win again. White Sox are now in the same category as the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels. They are expected to win every year, they have the money now to do it, and they can't sit around and wait for .160 hitters to come around. A few years ago you would wait for a guy like Anderson to develope because that was your only option. The Sox no longer have that option when the goal of the season is World Series or bust.

Oh, my God, I think we have the identical twin of HomeFish here!!! :o:

StatHead21
06-14-2006, 12:03 AM
LOL!

Anderson is already better than Rowand on D. He's right up there with the best of them.

Rowand is great - :roflmao: :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::rofl mao:

Ok show me some evidence to back up your opinion.

"The ESPN set when the World Series was in Houston was in dead center, which provided Larry Bowa and I a perfect position to watch one of our favorite shows --Aaron Rowands jumps in center field. At one point Larry Bowa made the observation that Rowand seemed to be one or two steps into his jump before the ball was even hit. Yet, How many folk think of GREAT center fielders and think of Aaron Rowand, perhaps other than Pat Gilick." - Peter Gammons insider blog February 2006

Rowand rated #1 Center Fielder in John Dewans fielding bible

I respect your opinion but how about some facts to back it up? (Hawk's bias opinion doesn't count as a fact)

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 12:04 AM
I pointed out in chat, Brian isn't even the worst offensive player in the starting lineup. Uribe is. Uribe has the lower OBP and OPS. Similarly, Uribe's stats suggest that he is the best or second-best defensive shortstop in the AL.

StatHead21
06-14-2006, 12:05 AM
Anderson's a better defender than both Rowand and Hunter. Jones is the premier CF in baseball. I'd be willing to bet that he ranks among the all time greats. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see Mays play. I can't compare.

Anderson has played how many games in Center? Premier is a little bias...

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 12:06 AM
I respect your opinion but how about some facts to back it up? (Hawk's bias opinion doesn't count as a fact)
The facts, ahem, in the form of stats have all been provided.

BoKnowsBest
06-14-2006, 12:06 AM
I think stathead is preseting a great argument. The only problem for him is that the argument he's presenting is that stat heads seem to be wrong most of the time in baseball. Stats don't tell the whole story in most cases. Would you say that Jim Thome is a terrible player because he strikes out a lot? I mean looking at the stats he strikes out 3 times for every home run he hits so that makes him terrible doesn't it? Give it a rest. I don't think i've ever seen a person so against a single player as stathead is against BA. Did he kick your dog or something? Whats the beef with him? I know hes not hitting well but he doesn't let his struggles at the plate affect him in the field, which is more than i expected from him as a rookie. Just let it go already stathead, we know you hate BA and believe he's the worst centerfielder in the majors and i know that at least i'm getting sick of you posting in any thread that even mentions him saying hes the worst centerfielder in baseball.

Edited to correct Thome's strikeout/HR stats

oeo
06-14-2006, 12:06 AM
Ok show me some evidence to back up your opinion.

"The ESPN set when the World Series was in Houston was in dead center, which provided Larry Bowa and I a perfect position to watch one of our favorite shows --Aaron Rowands jumps in center field. At one point Larry Bowa made the observation that Rowand seemed to be one or two steps into his jump before the ball was even hit. Yet, How many folk think of GREAT center fielders and think of Aaron Rowand, perhaps other than Pat Gilick." - Peter Gammons insider blog February 2006

Rowand rated #1 Center Fielder in John Dewans fielding bible

I respect your opinion but how about some facts to back it up? (Hawk's bias opinion doesn't count as a fact)

I'm not really sure how to respond to this, you're using opinions, those are not facts...

ilsox7
06-14-2006, 12:07 AM
Let's just cut the crap and get down to what you are:

:dtroll:

He's a big time troll. His asinine comments about Brian caring more about his hair than hitting and taking quotes out of context proved as much.

Banix12
06-14-2006, 12:07 AM
The White Sox are currently 5th in the American League in runs scored (Probably 4th now since I think the sox passed the Rangers tonight, or at least tied them). The 4 teams ahead of the white sox in runs scored all have records worse than the white sox. Detroit is currently 8th by the way.

The offense isn't a problem, even with Brian Anderson's poor hitting. Would it be nice to see him get it together and hit? Certainly, we would all love to see that, especially Brian Anderson. It's just not anything to really get worked up about.

Relax, Patience. The sox can actually afford, at least for now, to run him out there.

The reason the Tigers and Sox are both doing so well this year is because of pitching. Anything the sox can do to help the pitching out is a good thing, and that includes Anderson in center.

StatHead21
06-14-2006, 12:15 AM
I think stathead is preseting a great argument. The only problem for him is that the argument he's presenting is that stat heads seem to be wrong most of the time in baseball. Stats don't tell the whole story in most cases. Would you say that Jim Thome is a terrible player because he strikes out a lot? I mean looking at the stats he strikes out 4 times for every home run he hits so that makes him terrible doesn't it? Give it a rest. I don't think i've ever seen a person so against a single player as stathead is against BA. Did he kick your dog or something? Whats the beef with him? I know hes not hitting well but he doesn't let his struggles at the plate affect him in the field, which is more than i expected from him as a rookie. Just let it go already stathead, we know you hate BA and believe he's the worst centerfielder in the majors and i know that at least i'm getting sick of you posting in any thread that even mentions him saying hes the worst centerfielder in baseball.

I don't hate him, I hope he becomes great, I hope the Sox win it all once again. In my opinion they need to upgrade in center(I'm sure Kenny is on the phone as we speak). Offensivly he has been the worst unfortunatly. I want the Sox to win again, and all I'm saying is I don't think they can with BA in center. And if being disatisfied with someone's performance and wanting a trade to be made makes me a "troll" then I am a "troll". And I will continue being a "troll" until he hits or he is upgraded.

oeo
06-14-2006, 12:19 AM
I don't hate him, I hope he becomes great, I hope the Sox win it all once again. In my opinion they need to upgrade in center(I'm sure Kenny is on the phone as we speak). Offensivly he has been the worst unfortunatly. I want the Sox to win again, and all I'm saying is I don't think they can with BA in center. And if being disatisfied with someone's performance and wanting a trade to be made makes me a "troll" then I am a "troll". And I will continue being a "troll" until he hits or he is upgraded.

Well, actually if you are a troll, you will be out of here faster than you can type "troll" again.

TornLabrum
06-14-2006, 12:21 AM
I don't hate him, I hope he becomes great, I hope the Sox win it all once again. In my opinion they need to upgrade in center(I'm sure Kenny is on the phone as we speak). Offensivly he has been the worst unfortunatly. I want the Sox to win again, and all I'm saying is I don't think they can with BA in center. And if being disatisfied with someone's performance and wanting a trade to be made makes me a "troll" then I am a "troll". And I will continue being a "troll" until he hits or he is upgraded.

I wouldn't threaten to troll if I were you.

Banix12
06-14-2006, 12:30 AM
I don't hate him, I hope he becomes great, I hope the Sox win it all once again. In my opinion they need to upgrade in center(I'm sure Kenny is on the phone as we speak). Offensivly he has been the worst unfortunatly. I want the Sox to win again, and all I'm saying is I don't think they can with BA in center. And if being disatisfied with someone's performance and wanting a trade to be made makes me a "troll" then I am a "troll". And I will continue being a "troll" until he hits or he is upgraded.

I knew you were in trouble around here the first time I saw your screenname.

Anyway, you need to seriously relax.

Even with the poor hitting of Anderson this team has a better offense than the team that won it all last season. The addition of Thome has meant that much and the other hitters are mostly having better seasons as well.

If he doesn't improve by the deadline then I even would like some sort of upgrade, however the sox actually for once have a luxury of time. The offense is clicking without the bottom of the order doing much of anything and the pitching appears to largely be coming around.

I actually though do think the sox could win it all with Brian in center. They seem to have the pitching, though they could use another righty reliever, to beat any of the top teams in the american league. And there honestly isn't an NL team I think the sox should be afraid of.

Jjav829
06-14-2006, 12:33 AM
5 pages already based on some article stating the obvious on cnnsi.com? What the ****? Should I bother reading this? Anyone care to summarize? :smile:

TornLabrum
06-14-2006, 12:39 AM
5 pages already based on some article stating the obvious on cnnsi.com? What the ****? Should I bother reading this? Anyone care to summarize? :smile:

Yeah, cnnsi trashed Anderson and stathead21 is out trolling. I think that about sums it up.

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 12:40 AM
No, not really worth reading.

CLR01
06-14-2006, 12:40 AM
He's far from "great"

Rowand is great.
Hunter is great.
Jones is great.
Mays was great.

Don't tarnish the word "great" by using to to describe Anderson's defense...

Good, but not close to being "great"


You say not to tarnish the word great by using it to describe Anderson but you can **** all over it using it to describe Rowand and its not a problem. :rolleyes:

TornLabrum
06-14-2006, 12:46 AM
You say not to tarnish the word great by using it to describe Anderson but you can **** all over it using it to describe Rowand and its not a problem. :rolleyes:

If you read his posts very carefully, his opinions seem to be inspired by John Dewan, Peter Gammons, and some great catches at Yankee stadium, i.e. a stathead, a meathead, and one game.

CLR01
06-14-2006, 12:46 AM
.100 point rise in average is worth more than you think,


Yeah at this point it is about 1.2 extra hits per week. The Sox would be unbeatable if Anderson could manage that.

WinOrDyeTrying
06-14-2006, 12:56 AM
Just wondering, how did BA do in tonights game agains Texas? I didnt get to see that game.

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 01:01 AM
He had a walk, two flyouts, and a weak groundout up the middle. He didn't look completely lost and seemed to generally understand where the pitches were--which is a big improvement over a few days ago. The walk came after being down 1-2, IIRC.

CLR01
06-14-2006, 01:01 AM
Just wondering, how did BA do in tonights game agains Texas? I didnt get to see that game.


0-3 with a walk, 2 flyouts to left field, no strikeouts, 4 LOB, grounder to second baseman with base loaded to end the 8th inning.

Domeshot17
06-14-2006, 01:08 AM
WoW. Few things I find amusing

(1) We all love Aaron, we all respect Aaron, blah blah blah. But (a) the same people who are saying hes a good not great CF are the same people last year who were STUNNED he did not win a gold glove.

(2) I wonder how many people who pre season said Anderson would be better then Sizemore wish they could take that back.

(3) Both arguements are correct. Anderson is a rookie, hes over matched, but he is looking like he might be coming out of it. We will know more when he faces some thicker pitching. He looks like he has an approach now which is half the battle. He cant possibly be any worse. He isnt really killing us as you shouldnt be lookin for the 9 hole to do too much. HOWEVER, he is the worst offensive player in baseball right now. He leaves guys on base, and will still need to be pinch hit for in tight spots. the problem is going to triple A wont help him learn to hit major league pitching. Kenny may need to deal for a new CF, a temp guy, maybe not griffey, maybe a guy like Brady Clark, Pierre, someone who can hit and play some D, but if so we wont see that until early to mid july, around the all star break. IMHO, this is Brian's 4 week audition to be our CF for the rest of the season.

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 01:16 AM
How can Anderson be the worst offensive player in the league when he isn't the worst offensive player on his own team? Uribe is.

Domeshot17
06-14-2006, 01:20 AM
depends how you look at it I guess, Batting Ave wise hes one of the worse, I guess because different stats tell different stories, we can classify brian as

a top 5 worst offensive player in the baseball ( as of now)

a top 5 defensive CF in baseball. and for the arguement he does not dive as much as aaron, for anyone who played any OF in baseball, the best OF dont need to dive, they read balls well and cover a ton of ground.

fuzzy_patters
06-14-2006, 01:22 AM
How can Anderson be the worst offensive player in the league when he isn't the worst offensive player on his own team? Uribe is.

Good point. Uribe has sucked this year, and we have two shortstops on the bench. There isn't really a good alternative to Anderson, and although he was hitless, he put some nice swings on the ball tonight. Uribe should be getting more heat than Anderson.

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 01:28 AM
Like I said before, Uribe is having one of the best defensive seasons of any shortstop in the AL. That's why he's still in there. Uribe never walks so his OBP and OPS are, amazingly, lower than Anderson's.

StatHead21
06-14-2006, 01:34 AM
If you read his posts very carefully, his opinions seem to be inspired by John Dewan, Peter Gammons, and some great catches at Yankee stadium, i.e. a stathead, a meathead, and one game.

Just look at the difference in team ERA from this year and last year. Rowand made a difference....

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 01:48 AM
Oh lord. That's a terrible argument. Is the centerfielder responsible for all the homeruns Garland has given up? Again, the stats suggest that Anderson is having a great defensive season--possibly better than Rowand's last year. You've yet to respond to that statistical evidence.

fuzzy_patters
06-14-2006, 01:48 AM
Just look at the difference in team ERA from this year and last year. Rowand made a difference....
You are correct. Having a new centerfielder is the only thing that can account for a higher team ERA. Rowand must be playing center when Contreras starts. It's the only explanation.

Banix12
06-14-2006, 01:50 AM
Just look at the difference in team ERA from this year and last year. Rowand made a difference....

I'm sure that has a lot more to do with better pitching out of the bullpen last season and better pitching out of Jon Garland last year when he wasn't giving up gopher balls at a rediculous pace.

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 01:51 AM
Anderson is also responsible for Cliff Politte's transition from lights-out to major suckfest.

oeo
06-14-2006, 01:51 AM
I'm sure that has a lot more to do with better pitching out of the bullpen last season and better pitching out of Jon Garland last year when he wasn't giving up gopher balls at a rediculous pace.

Uhm, how about better pitching by the whole staff, outside of Contreras? No one has been consistently good, except Contreras.

rwcescato
06-14-2006, 01:52 AM
It does pretty much brutalize him but hes just calling it like he sees it. Those stats don't lie. Hes on the climb now though:smile:


I agree with you. There is nothing bad about the article. This season for hi so far is exactly that. There is a lot of room for improvement and we shall see if he can snap out of this funk. Lets hope so.

Banix12
06-14-2006, 01:56 AM
Uhm, how about better pitching by the whole staff, outside of Contreras? No one has been consistently good, except Contreras.

Well the only other person I would add would possibly be Garcia, whose ERA ballooned to over 5 after the other night. Buehrle's ERA is still in the low 3's so it's pretty darn good and Vazquez is right around where I expected him to be and is better than Duque.

oeo
06-14-2006, 01:58 AM
I agree with you. There is nothing bad about the article. This season for hi so far is exactly that. There is a lot of room for improvement and we shall see if he can snap out of this funk. Lets hope so.

Uhm, saying that he hasn't been hitting well, that's fine. But saying he needs to get out of here because he's not ready (which is just a guess by him, I'm sure), is another. And then goes on to say we should try to pick up Griffey (who BTW is on a contender). Griffey is good, but Griffey is also a huge injury risk that I hope the Sox are not willing to take. That's just what we need, give up prospects for Griffey, he gets injured, and we're right back where we started with Anderson as our centerfielder. No thank you to Griffey.

CLR01
06-14-2006, 02:38 AM
Just look at the difference in team ERA from this year and last year. Rowand made a difference....


Do you actually believe the crap you post? If Rowand is such a difference maker in the team ERA department :rolling: then why do the Phillies (also higher than last year) have a higher team ERA than the White Sox?


White Sox team ERA-4.33 11th
Rowand aided Phillies-4.52 17th
White Sox starters- 4.31 6th
Rowand aided Phillies- 5.35 27th



You are about ][ that close to getting banned for being a moron.

BoKnowsBest
06-14-2006, 02:40 AM
i think if stathead keeps up this great insightful posting he may have a job at the Cubune soon. I had to read that last post a couple of times to see if he actually said that Rowand was the reason the ERA's have been up this year. Sounds like a sound theory our friends at the Cubune would come up with.

TheOldRoman
06-14-2006, 03:07 AM
Why not 44-20? Whats wrong with winning a few extra games? Need I remind you they are in 2nd place....
Oh my god! I must have slept through the whole season. It is October already! We lost the division!
It's over, folks. I just hope I can find some moron to take my remaining season tickets off my hands for half of what I paid.
:rolleyes:

gosox3072
06-14-2006, 03:39 AM
I think i got dumber reading this thread

Give me a break about anderson, hes a good player and there is no change needed....if i eat my words fine, but there is NO WAY he will hit below .200 this year, hes got way too much talent. If he gets above 200 that means hes gonna go on quite a good streak.......

and besides what wins championships....yah pitching and DEFENSE! We have probably the best 12345 in baseball, im not worried too much about our O

KRS1
06-14-2006, 04:03 AM
Why not 44-20? Whats wrong with winning a few extra games? Need I remind you they are in 2nd place....

One of the funniest posts I have read in a while. I know you havent presented any stats thus far here to prove any of your ludicrous points, but I cant hold this one in any longer.....

"People can come up with statistics to prove anything, 14 percent of people know that"

StockdaleForVeep
06-14-2006, 04:27 AM
I certainly hope that Brian:

a. does not read things in the media
or, if he does
b. has thick skin.


There is very little positive writings about him, even though he has pulled his weight defensively. All we're asking for is for him to try out there offensively (not constantly swinging at everything), and it looks like he could turn a corner here. He's a rookie and can only get better!

U kiddin me? He should have this posted in his locker to motivate him. He's takin the spot of someone else who may produce or even may surpass him.

AS for rookies can only get better
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1999/06/24/twins_whitesox/t1_caruso_ap_01.jpg
"Dont forget me skip!"

StatHead21
06-14-2006, 04:30 AM
Say what you want Anderson won't be starting in CF for the Sox come October, Rowand will win a Gold Glove some time in his career, and the White Sox will make another run at a World Series title. I'm done argueing this.

KRS1
06-14-2006, 07:19 AM
Say what you want Anderson won't be starting in CF for the Sox come October, Rowand will win a Gold Glove some time in his career, and the White Sox will make another run at a World Series title. I'm done argueing this.


So your true identity comes forth.......

:cleo


"Call me now"

Any more "bold" predictions?

Thome25
06-14-2006, 07:38 AM
He's the worst everyday player in the majors, they need an upgrade if they want to win again. White Sox are now in the same category as the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels. They are expected to win every year, they have the money now to do it, and they can't sit around and wait for .160 hitters to come around. A few years ago you would wait for a guy like Anderson to develope because that was your only option. The Sox no longer have that option when the goal of the season is World Series or bust.

BA is above average defensively and has struggled at the plate. But a couple of other Sox players come to mind when talking about above-average defensive players who struggled offensively early in their careers:

Robin Ventura (BA's offensive struggles are more similar to his.) and Joe Crede.

How did they turn out?

CF is a key defensive position. you talk about how hard it would be to win the WS again this year with BA struggling offensively well, it would be much harder putting "scraps" out who are below average defensively and winning the WS again.

TornLabrum
06-14-2006, 10:05 AM
Just look at the difference in team ERA from this year and last year. Rowand made a difference....

:dtroll:

Hitmen77
06-14-2006, 10:17 AM
I'd come up with an argument if I felt I needed to make one.

But just to play along, here's one:

40-24, .625

If you think about it, the Sox have managed to stay on pace to 100 wins despite:

- Consistency problems in the starting rotation (Contreras to the DL, Garland pitching poorly, Garcia inconsistent, even Buehrle with a few uncharacteristicly bad outings, high pitch counts).

- Struggling bullpen

- Two big slumps for Pods (to start the season, and again since May 15)

- Two starters hitting under .200

- More costly errors or defensive "misplays" than last year.


....in summary, the team really hasn't been firing on all cylinders like I think it is starting to do. I addition to the below expectations noted above, I don't think anyone on the team has been playing way above expectations either. Yet, we're still on pace to win 100 games. I think the best days are still ahead of us in 2006.

itsnotrequired
06-14-2006, 10:26 AM
If you think about it, the Sox have managed to stay on pace to 100 wins despite:

- Consistency problems in the starting rotation (Contreras to the DL, Garland pitching poorly, Garcia inconsistent, even Buehrle with a few uncharacteristicly bad outings, high pitch counts).

- Struggling bullpen

- Two big slumps for Pods (to start the season, and again since May 15)

- Two starters hitting under .200

- More costly errors or defensive "misplays" than last year.


....in summary, the team really hasn't been firing on all cylinders like I think it is starting to do. I addition to the below expectations noted above, I don't think anyone on the team has been playing way above expectations either. Yet, we're still on pace to win 100 games. I think the best days are still ahead of us in 2006.

2 games behind where they were at this point last year...and we all know how that turned out.:cool:

Ol No. 2 loves it when I compare this year's team to the 2005 team.:tongue:

Hendu
06-14-2006, 10:29 AM
BA is above average defensively and has struggled at the plate. But a couple of other Sox players come to mind when talking about above-average defensive players who struggled offensively early in their careers:

Robin Ventura (BA's offensive struggles are more similar to his.) and Joe Crede.


And...Aaron Rowand. Of course, if it were up to StatHead21, Aaron would be stuck in AAA limbo somewhere instead of staking his claim as the best center fielder to ever put on a uniform.

Sure, BA's off to a bad start. But if Juan Uribe wasn't hitting as bad, if not worse than Brian, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The Braves can break in rookies every year, and I think we can handle that too. Let KW focus on the bullpen, which will factor in many more games than our #9 hitter.

Deuce
06-14-2006, 10:30 AM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm done argueing this.:rolleyes:

Thank you.

Heffalump
06-14-2006, 10:39 AM
Like I said before, Uribe is having one of the best defensive seasons of any shortstop in the AL.

Not trying to get off topic (actually I guess I am), but I totally disagee. In my opinion, Uribe's defense, while still excellent, has taken a big step down from last year. Especially his throwing.

JorgeFabregas
06-14-2006, 10:42 AM
You may be right. I've noticed some of the same thing, but it's not reflected in the stats--he may still be one of the best, even if not as good as last year.

Deuce
06-14-2006, 10:48 AM
:tomatoaward

oeo
06-14-2006, 01:50 PM
Say what you want Anderson won't be starting in CF for the Sox come October, Rowand will win a Gold Glove some time in his career, and the White Sox will make another run at a World Series title. I'm done argueing this.

And I'm going to put this in my signature so you never forget it.

TornLabrum
06-14-2006, 02:22 PM
And I'm going to put this in my signature so you never forget it.

I'm still trying to figure out what the last clause in his conclusion had to do with the first two.

caulfield12
06-14-2006, 02:28 PM
Are you going to correct the spelling error?

Well, maybe if the White Sox acquire Andruw Jones, that will, of course, leave the Gold Glove for Mr. Rowand. Just for running into the fence and breaking his nose probably, lol. And that Jim Edmonds guy is not looking so hot either....maybe A-Row has a chance!

southside rocks
06-14-2006, 02:39 PM
And that's exactly why so many of these "analysts" look like idiots. All they do is look at stats. You need to see for your own eyes before you go ahead and assume that he's not ready for the majors. Statistics can help a lot, but at the same time, like you said, they can be very deceptive.

Well put.

I enjoy reading Verducci -- usually -- but I'm glad Ozzie, and not Verducci, is the Sox manager.

Last year all I read in any media was that the Sox were a fluke, they couldn't do it, they were playing out of their depth. H'mmm, I guess analysts are sometimes ... what's the word? WRONG? Yeah. Which is why they're analysts.

Or as Ozzie put it: "the farther you sit from the plate, the smarter you get."

oeo
06-14-2006, 02:55 PM
Are you going to correct the spelling error?

Well, maybe if the White Sox acquire Andruw Jones, that will, of course, leave the Gold Glove for Mr. Rowand. Just for running into the fence and breaking his nose probably, lol. And that Jim Edmonds guy is not looking so hot either....maybe A-Row has a chance!
No, otherwise it's not a direct quote then. It's his writing anyway, not mine. I'll just leave it as it is, and when Anderson becomes a key part to another postseason run, he'll still see the quote.