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View Full Version : Questions arising from Sunday's ESPN broadcast


Baby Fisk
06-13-2006, 01:21 PM
I hope my memory isn't playing tricks again, but on ESPN's Sunday night broadcast, Morgan & Miller briefly touched on something that I wanted to ask about here.

They were talking about Ozzie's record as manager, and how he helped advise Kenny on the kind of team he wanted built in Chicago. Then one of them implied that there was a veteran pitcher who achieved some personal milestones, then started slacking off in 2004. He was removed from the team with all speed. Then they mentioned a pitcher who started slacking off in 2005 and got removed. I think I know to whom they were referring, but can someone confirm who were these players who ran afoul of Ozzie?

IA_soxfan
06-13-2006, 01:23 PM
I hope my memory isn't playing tricks again, but on ESPN's Sunday night broadcast, Morgan & Miller briefly touched on something that I wanted to ask about here.

They were talking about Ozzie's record as manager, and how he helped advise Kenny on the kind of team he wanted built in Chicago. Then one of them implied that there was a veteran pitcher who achieved some personal milestones, then started slacking off in 2004. He was removed from the team with all speed. Then they mentioned a pitcher who started slacking off in 2005 and got removed. I think I know to whom they were referring, but can someone confirm who were these players who ran afoul of Ozzie?

I'm as stumped as you are about the '04 pitcher, but Marte seems to fit the description for the guy in '05.

skottyj242
06-13-2006, 01:24 PM
Estoban Loaiza?

Baby Fisk
06-13-2006, 01:24 PM
I'm as stumped as you are about the '04 pitcher, but Marte seems to fit the description for the guy in '05.
I believe the '04 pitcher was Mike Jackson. Sound right?

EDIT: Hm... a compelling case could also be made for Loaiza...

itsnotrequired
06-13-2006, 01:24 PM
Koch? Jackson?

GoGoSoxReborn
06-13-2006, 01:25 PM
Loiaza?

LuvSox
06-13-2006, 01:27 PM
Jackson fits the description.

batmanZoSo
06-13-2006, 01:27 PM
Koch? Jackson?

That guy. Always wore a shirt.

Ed Sullivan?

Yeah...

Frater Perdurabo
06-13-2006, 01:28 PM
I'm as stumped as you are about the '04 pitcher, but Marte seems to fit the description for the guy in '05.

I agree on Marte.

Loaiza fits the description as someone who achieved personal milestones in 2003 and then didn't perform as well in 2004, but I do not know that he "slacked off" in 2004. Whether or not Loaiza was the pitcher to whom the broadcasters were referring, I'm glad the Sox were able to turn his one year of excellence into Jose Contreras.

ilsox7
06-13-2006, 01:30 PM
I believe the '04 pitcher was Mike Jackson. Sound right?

EDIT: Hm... a compelling case could also be made for Loaiza...

Fairly certain it was Jackson. I think he set some record for appearances. IIRC, the story goes that Ozzie was pissed at Jackson and had a meeting with KW. KW didn't even ask what player Ozzie was pissed at, he just told him to cut the guy. And KW told Ozzie to let the team know that KW didn't even want to know what player was being cut b/c it didn't matter if the effort wasn't there.

oeo
06-13-2006, 02:06 PM
I agree on Marte.

Loaiza fits the description as someone who achieved personal milestones in 2003 and then didn't perform as well in 2004, but I do not know that he "slacked off" in 2004. Whether or not Loaiza was the pitcher to whom the broadcasters were referring, I'm glad the Sox were able to turn his one year of excellence into Jose Contreras.
I have a feeling Ozzie didn't think to kindly of him. I thought he was a pretty good guy, and then he says, "it's going to be nice to have some run support," after he was traded. You got plenty of run support, you douche.

Fairly certain it was Jackson. I think he set some record for appearances. IIRC, the story goes that Ozzie was pissed at Jackson and had a meeting with KW. KW didn't even ask what player Ozzie was pissed at, he just told him to cut the guy. And KW told Ozzie to let the team know that KW didn't even want to know what player was being cut b/c it didn't matter if the effort wasn't there.
And most grand slams...:tongue:

samram
06-13-2006, 02:16 PM
I say Loaiza. Jackson was just awful, but Loaiza always had a reputation as being an ******* in the clubhouse.

rainbow6
06-13-2006, 02:20 PM
It was a relief pitcher so it wasn't Loaiza - Mike Jackson fits the description on that roster...


Luke

champagne030
06-13-2006, 02:22 PM
I have a feeling Ozzie didn't think to kindly of him. I thought he was a pretty good guy, and then he says, "it's going to be nice to have some run support," after he was traded. You got plenty of run support, you douche.


And most grand slams...:tongue:

I'd say Loaiza. Jackson didn't slack off in '04. He was done and didn't have the stuff to get me out at that point of his career.

champagne030
06-13-2006, 02:23 PM
It was a relief pitcher so it wasn't Loaiza - Mike Jackson fits the description on that roster...

Luke

Did ESPN say it was a relief pitcher?

Tekijawa
06-13-2006, 02:25 PM
What about that pitcher that we had back in 2004 that slacked all the time and then we traded for him again this year or picked hip up again this year somehow... I think his name was ***name removed to protect myself from offending any female poster here*** . I know he wasn't here last year.

Lip Man 1
06-13-2006, 02:27 PM
A case could be made for Loiaza based on this comment reported in The Sporting News from a scout who watched Loiaza throw in April. I'm paraphrasing here but it went along the lines of, 'he got his big contract now he doesn't care anymore...'

Lip

MikeLove
06-13-2006, 02:38 PM
Considering how much research these jackasses actually put in, Id have to say it's Loiaza. They probably dont even know Jackson played for the sox.

dickallen15
06-13-2006, 04:07 PM
Ozzie had Jackson removed from the team in 2004. Loaisa was a deadline deal that got the Sox Contreras who had to waive his no trade, all done at the last minute. If they really wanted Esteban gone from the team, they would have gotten rid of him sooner. The ESPN guys were talking about Jackson.

Huisj
06-13-2006, 04:23 PM
I'm sure they were talking about Jackson. Miller and Morgan said something to the effect of "later in the season, he reached some personal milestones, and then started not putting all of his work in or started saying he wasn't available or feeling good certain days."

The Sox traded Loaiza July 31, so that's not really all that late in the season, and what milestones would he have reached in July that year? Jackson finished his career with 1005 career appearances, so I would guess that his 1000th appearance was probably the personal milestone they were referring to.

HotelWhiteSox
06-13-2006, 04:49 PM
Didn't hear the comment, but throughout the year I heard Kenny being disappointed with El Duque, and afterwards read about how he wouldn't listen to AJ

DickAllen72
06-13-2006, 04:53 PM
It could have been Loaiza, although he was not a relief pitcher and wasn't cut but traded. Could have been Mike Jackson.

But maybe Scott Schoenweiss (sp)?

rainbow6
06-13-2006, 07:33 PM
Peter Gammons specifically said a "veteran relief pitcher..."
Because I'm a lunatic, I quickly went on to baseballreference.com 'cause my memory was failing me.

Jackson was released early September of '04.

Luke

QCIASOXFAN
06-13-2006, 07:41 PM
I cant imagine what would have happened if we had not got Contereas for Loaiza at the trade deadline:o:Nor do I want to!

Brian26
06-13-2006, 10:10 PM
It could have been Loaiza, although he was not a relief pitcher and wasn't cut but traded. Could have been Mike Jackson.

But maybe Scott Schoenweiss (sp)?

It was Mike Jackson. This story was told verbatim at one of the Soxfest seminars this year. Ozzie didn't come out and say his name, but it was very apparent who it was (KW was on assignment and gave Ozzie the OK to release Jackson on the spot). This was right after Jackson refused to knock someone down after the Torii/Burke incident.

ilsox7
06-13-2006, 10:17 PM
It was Mike Jackson. This story was told verbatim at one of the Soxfest seminars this year. Ozzie didn't come out and say his name, but it was very apparent who it was (KW was on assignment and gave Ozzie the OK to release Jackson on the spot). This was right after Jackson refused to knock someone down after the Torii/Burke incident.

Yea, I remember now hearing it from someone who was at Soxfest. There was a thread about it. Glad I wasn't remembering things that didn't happen!

Tragg
06-13-2006, 11:05 PM
Jackson fits the description.

I just don't recall Jackson hitting many milestones on the southside.

Brian26
06-13-2006, 11:07 PM
I just don't recall Jackson hitting many milestones on the southside.

All-time relief appearances.

DickAllen72
06-13-2006, 11:12 PM
It was Mike Jackson. This story was told verbatim at one of the Soxfest seminars this year. Ozzie didn't come out and say his name, but it was very apparent who it was (KW was on assignment and gave Ozzie the OK to release Jackson on the spot). This was right after Jackson refused to knock someone down after the Torii/Burke incident.

That settles it then.

I remember how Hawk used to rave about how Jackson knows how to pitch to hitters. :cool:

Tragg
06-13-2006, 11:19 PM
All-time relief appearances.

What a price we paid for that milestone.

Milestone or not, he was terrible in the Sox uniform.

gbergman
06-14-2006, 03:24 AM
It was Mike Jackson, and Damaso Marte was last years guy