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LITTLE NELL
06-11-2006, 10:34 AM
I am torn because I miss Rowand so much. So the question is, with Frank Thomas starting to hit ( .235, 16, 38 ), Should we have made the Thome-Rowand trade? It also would have been great to have Thomas hit 500+HRS with the Sox. The good news is Thome is the ultimate team player and Frank is not. Oh well.

Blob
06-11-2006, 10:36 AM
:rolleyes:

samram
06-11-2006, 10:37 AM
Yes, the Thome trade should have been made.

rocky biddle
06-11-2006, 10:38 AM
The team would not be where they are without Thome in the line-up. As long as JT stays healthy I think the trade was a great idea. As soon as BA starts hitting up to his potential, Rowand will just be another great guy that played on the 2005 team.

Chips
06-11-2006, 10:43 AM
I am torn because I miss Rowand so much. So the question is, with Frank Thomas starting to hit ( .235, 16, 38 ), Should we have made the Thome-Rowand trade? It also would have been great to have Thomas hit 500+HRS with the Sox. The good news is Thome is the ultimate team player and Frank is not. Oh well.

HELL ****ING YES TO THE TRADE

WE HAVE JIM ****ING THOME.

WE GOT THOME FOR A BAG OF ****ING BALLS AND SOME MINOR LEAGUERS.

Beauty35thStreet
06-11-2006, 11:15 AM
Uhhhh, I think it was a good trade, but ARow wasn't that bad. In addition, we're paying Thome 7 million a year for an injury prone (lower back) player that doesn't play 1B currently, thus shipping out another player that apparently is not done yet. Granted we can probably swallow the salary now that we're champs and buying tickets. Agree with the trade, but if things don't go well come August/September/October, things might have wished to have been differently. Thomas's uncertainty was the big reason for the trade from my understanding.

HELL ****ING YES TO THE TRADE

WE HAVE JIM ****ING THOME.

WE GOT THOME FOR A BAG OF ****ING BALLS AND SOME MINOR LEAGUERS.

RKMeibalane
06-11-2006, 11:52 AM
Yes!

Yes, yes, and yes!

champagne030
06-11-2006, 11:57 AM
HELL ****ING YES TO THE TRADE

WE HAVE JIM ****ING THOME.

WE GOT THOME FOR A BAG OF ****ING BALLS AND SOME MINOR LEAGUERS.

Rowand = "a bag of ****ing balls"? :?:

Yes, I'm very, very happy with the trade, but I'm glad you're not in a position of evaluating baseball players for the White Sox.

CHISOXFAN13
06-11-2006, 12:00 PM
Rowand = "a bag of ****ing balls"? :?:

Yes, I'm very, very happy with the trade, but I'm glad you're not in a position of evaluating baseball players for the White Sox.

I think that's his way of saying enough with these threads. It was a great trade for the White Sox. Thome leads the league in homers and RBI and is among the league leaders in OBP.

Enough said.

Chips
06-11-2006, 12:03 PM
Rowand = "a bag of ****ing balls"? :?:

Yes, I'm very, very happy with the trade, but I'm glad you're not in a position of evaluating baseball players for the White Sox.

A bag of balls, chisoxmike and I started calling him that after discussing all the ****ing threads that were started about Rowand this, Rowand that, I miss Rowand, Can we trade for Rowand, Rowand had a hit today, Rowand woke up.
We have Jim ****ing Thome and this Rowand **** was driving us nuts.

Anderson is better than him in center. We needed a DH to takeover for that piece of ****, .250 hitting Carl Evertt.

The trade was pure ****ing gold.

LITTLE NELL
06-11-2006, 12:20 PM
I accidently posted this on Talking Baseball thread. I really miss Rowand and with Frank Thomas starting to hit should the Sox have made the Thome trade? It would have been nice to see Thomas hit 500HRS with the Sox even
if he is a jerk. No doubt Thome is the ultimate team mate and is having a great year but I dont think the chemistry is the same with Rowand gone.

Scottiehaswheels
06-11-2006, 12:23 PM
How many times are you planning to post the same thing? Should I just put you on ignore now and save the hassle?

oeo
06-11-2006, 12:35 PM
Thome is the reason we even got off to a hot start. Frank would not have done that for us, and Rowand's production wouldn't have made up for that. I'll take what we've got.

Chips
06-11-2006, 12:53 PM
Why is this even an issue?

Jim Thome is the ****.

voodoochile
06-11-2006, 01:34 PM
I accidently posted this on Talking Baseball thread. I really miss Rowand and with Frank Thomas starting to hit should the Sox have made the Thome trade? It would have been nice to see Thomas hit 500HRS with the Sox even
if he is a jerk. No doubt Thome is the ultimate team mate and is having a great year but I dont think the chemistry is the same with Rowand gone.

No, you posted it in the Clubhouse. I moved it to TB because neither of the players being discussed is on the Sox anymore.

DumpJerry
06-11-2006, 01:49 PM
Enough already! I've had up to here with the "I miss Rowand" stuff. I know, I know, if I don't like it, don't read it.

This is getting to the level of the Flubsessiveness that was recently sent to the showers.

Can we stop living in the past and start living for today? No more Rowand postings????

As far as Big Frank goes. He was great when we had him. However, I don't recall him ever launching one from the left side.

RKMeibalane
06-11-2006, 02:42 PM
As far as Big Frank goes. He was great when we had him. However, I don't recall him ever launching one from the left side.

Since Frank is right-handed, I don't see what the point is this comment is. Jim Thome has never hit a home run right-handed, because he bats left-handed.

:?:

mcp5185
06-11-2006, 06:00 PM
Since Frank is right-handed, I don't see what the point is this comment is. Jim Thome has never hit a home run right-handed, because he bats left-handed.

:?:

I think the point of the commen was, we were in need of a left handed power bat. Which was one of the main reasons we were afer Griffey last year.

RKMeibalane
06-11-2006, 08:22 PM
I think the point of the commen was, we were in need of a left handed power bat. Which was one of the main reasons we were afer Griffey last year.

I understand that, but people keep making this out to be a Frank vs. Thome issue, and I don't see it that way. Frank is doing well for Oakland, and Thome is doing well for the Sox. I don't see anymore to the situation than that.

SoxFanPrope
06-11-2006, 08:26 PM
I understand that, but people keep making this out to be a Frank vs. Thome issue, and I don't see it that way. Frank is doing well for Oakland, and Thome is doing well for the Sox. I don't see anymore to the situation than that.
Nevermind that with both of them coming off some injuries, there really was no way to tell either one would be doing what they currently are.

The Dude
06-11-2006, 08:51 PM
To SUM up these posts quickly by LITTLENELL....

:threadblows:

chisoxmike
06-12-2006, 12:42 AM
the Trade Was A ****ing Steal!

rowand Is Gone. He Doesn't Like You Anymore...it's Over...he Is Seeing Someone Else Now!

DumpJerry
06-12-2006, 12:45 AM
Since Frank is right-handed, I don't see what the point is this comment is. Jim Thome has never hit a home run right-handed, because he bats left-handed.

:?:
We have two guys named Konerko and Dye. 40 and 31 homers each last year. From the right side.

Right now, on pace for more dingers each this year. Thome on pace for 50+ this year.

End of argument.

Don't even start to count the number of bad jumps Rowand had last year vs. BA this year. BA's count is and will be much less.

chisoxmike
06-12-2006, 12:46 AM
Jim Thome carried this team on his ****ing back in April. Rowand or Frank would NOT have done that.

The Dude
06-12-2006, 12:58 AM
Jim Thome carried this team on his ****ing back in April. Rowand or Frank would NOT have done that.

What do you mean?? Aaron wouldve had 30 jacks now and 55 crashes into the CF wall! And not to mention having won at least 161 or 162 games by the end of the season....

Chips
06-12-2006, 08:32 AM
the Trade Was A ****ing Steal!

rowand Is Gone. He Doesn't Like You Anymore...it's Over...he Is Seeing Someone Else Now!

No ****, the guy makes a few nice catches and he's a ****ing hero. How about all them 17 GIDPs last year or his monthlong stretch of hitting the ball to short of third every at-bat. Good riddance, we have Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye, and Paul Konerko in the same lineup. Greatest trade ever made by Kenny Williams.

LauraJ14
06-12-2006, 08:45 AM
Jim Thome carried this team on his ****ing back in April. Rowand or Frank would NOT have done that.

Frank Thomas has hit 16 home runs so far this year, only 5 behind Jim Thome. Although Thome has more RBI's and higher batting average.
Last I looked Aaron Rowand is hitting 100 points better than Brian Anderson.
So far this season stat wise Rowand + Thomas >> Thome + Anderson

Chips
06-12-2006, 09:18 AM
Frank Thomas has hit 16 home runs so far this year, only 5 behind Jim Thome. Although Thome has more RBI's and higher batting average.
Last I looked Aaron Rowand is hitting 100 points better than Brian Anderson.
So far this season stat wise Rowand + Thomas >> Thome + Anderson

Are you kidding me?

Rowand is hitting .290 with 7 HR, 23 RBI while scoring 26 runs.
Thomas is hitting .235 with 16 HR, 38 RBI while scoring 27 runs.
Combined they are hitting .262, with 23 HR, 61 RBI while scoring 53 runs.

Thome is hitting .282 with 21 HR, 54 RBI while scoring 48 runs.
Anderson is hitting .163 with 5 HR, 15 RBI while scoring 17 runs and kicking ass in the field.

Combined they are hitting .235 with 26 HR, 69 RBI while scoring 65 runs.

I'll sacrifice 30 points in average to get better run production.

How many games did Jim Thome win for us this year?

A whole ****ing lot.

CLR01
06-12-2006, 10:43 AM
Rowand = "a bag of ****ing balls"? :?:

Yes, I'm very, very happy with the trade, but I'm glad you're not in a position of evaluating baseball players for the White Sox.


The bag of balls is worth much more the Rowand.

zach23
06-12-2006, 10:47 AM
The most ironic thing in all of this for me is that I remember many games back in 2004 where most of the people in the bleachers were booing Rowand constantly because he was hitting around .120
There were a lot of screams for him to go back to AAA. At that time people would have traded him for a bag of balls, and now some people are upset he was dealt for a player like Thome.
In a couple of years maybe the cycle will repeat itself and there will be people screaming that Anderson was traded for someone who is leading the league in HRs and OBP while another rookie CF breaks into the league.

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 11:44 AM
We have two guys named Konerko and Dye. 40 and 31 homers each last year. From the right side.

Right now, on pace for more dingers each this year. Thome on pace for 50+ this year.

End of argument.

If you would take the time to read my posts, you would know that I have said several times that I think the Sox are better off with Thome. There was never an argument to begin with.

Finally, I am aware that Thome gives the Sox a left-handed power hitter, but is it really Frank's fault that they didn't have that in the past? I don't remember anyone complaining about a lack of left-handed power when Frank was around. I don't see the point in doing it now, especially since the Sox have a hitter who provides that.

PaulDrake
06-12-2006, 12:05 PM
Are you kidding me?

Rowand is hitting .290 with 7 HR, 23 RBI while scoring 26 runs.
Thomas is hitting .235 with 16 HR, 38 RBI while scoring 27 runs.
Combined they are hitting .262, with 23 HR, 61 RBI while scoring 53 runs.

Thome is hitting .282 with 21 HR, 54 RBI while scoring 48 runs.
Anderson is hitting .163 with 5 HR, 15 RBI while scoring 17 runs and kicking ass in the field.

Combined they are hitting .235 with 26 HR, 69 RBI while scoring 65 runs.

I'll sacrifice 30 points in average to get better run production.

How many games did Jim Thome win for us this year?

A whole ****ing lot. It isn't that much better run production so far this year. It often takes several years before one can adequately rate a big trade like this. So far so good for the White Sox, but like I said you've got to see how it all works out the rest of this year and beyond. Both Frank and Thome are injury risks IMHO. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or both to go on the DL some time this year.

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 12:12 PM
It isn't that much better run production so far this year. It often takes several years before one can adequately rate a big trade like this. So far so good for the White Sox, but like I said you've got to see how it all works out the rest of this year and beyond. Both Frank and Thome are injury risks IMHO. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or both to go on the DL some time this year.

It's also important to keep in mind that there are other ways to evaluate a trade besides numbers. Rowand may not produce as much as Thome, but that's never been his role, regardless of where he's played. Rowand is a table-setter, and as long as he does that for the Phillies- who have more than enough power in their lineup- then he's holding up his end of the trade.

Jim Thome is on pace to hit fifty home runs, but he's also expected to provide power. Rowand has never been expected to do that. The Phillies got him for his defense and solid all-around play, and that's what he's given them. The deal was a good trade for both sides. I don't see why people feel the need to say that one team got the better of the deal, when it's possible that both teams can benefit. Not everything in sports has to be about winning and losing.

Flight #24
06-12-2006, 01:17 PM
It comes down to this: You can't rely on Frank Thomas to stay healthy. He's already been in & out of the lineup this year for the A's for various leg-related reasons . Meanwhile, Jim Thome's been pretty consistently in the lineup except for one brief stretch, unrelated to his "problem area" (back).

If you knew Frank would stay healthy, then yeah, Frank can put up equivalent or better #s than Thome. But when you're guessing which one's got a higher liklihood of playing a full season, Thome's the far better bet.

Rowand is a nice player, but the difference between Anderson & Rowand is nowhere near the diffrence in value you get from upgrading the health of your cornerstone power hitter.

WSox597
06-12-2006, 04:04 PM
If he had to play first, Thome would play it well. You can't in all honesty say that about Thomas. He was shaky at best at first base.

Add that to his late inability to stay healthy, and it makes the Thome move a good one.

This takes nothing away from his accomplishments over the years. He is an excellent hitter.

Besides, Thome has a personality to go with his ability. Frank wasn't issued one.

Chips
06-12-2006, 07:07 PM
The bag of balls is worth much more the Rowand.

Just one of those balls is worth more than Rowand. We stole Thome from Philly.

HotelWhiteSox
06-12-2006, 07:09 PM
WE GOT THOME FOR A BAG OF ****ING BALLS AND SOME MINOR LEAGUERS.

This is fine, and I loved the trade right when I heard about it, but I don't want to hear Sox fans crying in a couple years if those prospects become studs

Chips
06-12-2006, 07:22 PM
This is fine, and I loved the trade right when I heard about it, but I don't want to hear Sox fans crying in a couple years if those prospects become studs

How many of our prospects that we have traded turned out to be studs?

How many of the guys that KW has traded away turned out to be studs?

Palehose13
06-12-2006, 07:32 PM
Just one of those balls is worth more than Rowand. We stole Thome from Philly.
Christ, I know that you guys are tired of hearing about Rowand, but don't you think that you are being a little extreme. Remember...the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

HotelWhiteSox
06-12-2006, 09:22 PM
How many of our prospects that we have traded turned out to be studs?

How many of the guys that KW has traded away turned out to be studs?

I'm just saying, people will complain about it would happen, just like people prey for Rowand when BA struggles or some people are analyzing Marte's numbers right now even though he couldn't be used at home

FarWestChicago
06-12-2006, 09:25 PM
I'm just saying, people will complain about it would happen, just like people prey for Rowand when BA struggles or some people are analyzing Marte's numbers right now even though he couldn't be used at homeThere are many morons on this board. There is no need to worry about what they think. :redneck

Chips
06-12-2006, 09:26 PM
I'm just saying, people will complain about it would happen, just like people prey for Rowand when BA struggles or some people are analyzing Marte's numbers right now even though he couldn't be used at home

I was being serious though. How many of our prospects have materialized into stud players. Besides Buehrle and Big Frank, I can't think of any.

Daver
06-12-2006, 09:27 PM
I was being serious though. How many of our prospects have materialized into stud players. Besides Buehrle and Big Frank, I can't think of any.

Joe Crede.

soxinem1
06-12-2006, 09:33 PM
Frank Thomas has hit 16 home runs so far this year, only 5 behind Jim Thome. Although Thome has more RBI's and higher batting average.
Last I looked Aaron Rowand is hitting 100 points better than Brian Anderson.
So far this season stat wise Rowand + Thomas >> Thome + Anderson

You have to look at the quality of the stats. I am as big of a Frank fan as anyone, but he didn't even have his average over .190 until the A's came here. If he'd have stayed here and provided production like that, he would have been benched.

And as far as Rowand is concerned, hey, I always liked the guy, but this is sort of like Loaiza and Shingo, they are gone, gone, gone. And it looks to me like BA makes the same plays without all the false starts, jumps, and leaps.

Chips
06-12-2006, 09:36 PM
Joe Crede.

I had him in there and then I deleted it.
I should have wrote superstar. Either way, our farm system has never been a hotbed for major league talent.

Daver
06-12-2006, 09:38 PM
I had him in there and then I deleted it.
I should have wrote superstar. Either way, our farm system has never been a hotbed for major league talent.

Robin Ventura.

Jack Macdowell.

Alex Fernandez.

Wilson Alvarez.

Carlos Lee.

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 09:39 PM
I was being serious though. How many of our prospects have materialized into stud players. Besides Buehrle and Big Frank, I can't think of any.

Robin Ventura wasn't really a stud, but a nice player nonetheless.

The same was true of Jack McDowell for a number of years, before arm problems started to slow him down.

The jury is still out on Anderson and Ryan Sweeney, who has yet to play in a Major League game outside of ST.

TornLabrum
06-12-2006, 09:39 PM
Joe Crede.

Brewers fans would say Carlos Lee.

Chips
06-12-2006, 09:43 PM
Robin Ventura.

Jack Macdowell.

Alex Fernandez.

Wilson Alvarez.

Carlos Lee.

I stand corrected, I was thinking more of recently and how just about everyone KW trades away doesn't do much of anything.

Wilson Alvarez came up with the Rangers.

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 09:46 PM
You have to look at the quality of the stats. I am as big of a Frank fan as anyone, but he didn't even have his average over .190 until the A's came here. If he'd have stayed here and provided production like that, he would have been benched.

And as far as Rowand is concerned, hey, I always liked the guy, but this is sort of like Loaiza and Shingo, they are gone, gone, gone. And it looks to me like BA makes the same plays without all the false starts, jumps, and leaps.

In the case of Frank, though, he's always been an extremely slow starter. The fact that his average was low is probably due to his missing so much time over the past two seasons. He's been hitting about .320 over the past few weeks, yet I don't think anyone expects him to hit for a high average anymore.

Players go through streaks and slumps over the course of a season, and Frank struggled his first six weeks in an A's uniforms. I don't think anyone honestly believes he's a .190 hitter, nor does anyone honestly believe that he's a .320 anymore. He's somewhere in between, and he'll probably finish the season somewhere around .250-.260. His power, batting eye, and run production will always be there.

Again, no reasonable Sox fan honestly believes that Thomas (as he is right now) and Rowand (who has less upside than Anderson) are an upgrade over Thome (leading the AL in home runs) and Anderson (a five-tool talent). The only people who keep saying otherwise are complete and utter idiots. It's probably better to just ignore them and move on.

Frank and Aaron are playing well for their teams, and Jim and BA are playing well for the Sox. I happen to like all four players and want to see them do well. I don't understand why some people feel it's necessary to criticize them or compare them. Each has a unique role on the team that he plays for, and each is filling that role well. I for one can live with that. I hope everyone can, too, because that's the way it's going to be.

Daver
06-12-2006, 09:48 PM
I stand corrected, I was thinking more of recently and how just about everyone KW trades away doesn't do much of anything.

Wilson Alvarez came up with the Rangers.

Substitute him with Magglio Ordonez then.

Alvarez did pitch in the Sox minor league system though.

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 09:49 PM
Substitute him with Magglio Ordonez then.

Alvarez did pitch in the Sox minor league system though.

He's The Other Guy. Not Magglio. I refuse to call him by his name after he betrayed us.

Daver
06-12-2006, 09:51 PM
He's The Other Guy. Not Magglio. I refuse to call him by his name after he betrayed us.

He betrayed himself, it cost him a world series ring.

Chips
06-12-2006, 09:52 PM
Substitute him with Magglio Ordonez then.

Alvarez did pitch in the Sox minor league system though.

Magglio is a stud, but he wasn't traded and I messed up what I wanted to post.

I've messed up a few posts today. The ****ing LSAT took all the energy out of my brain.

How about this.... Have we traded away any prospects who turned out to be absolute stud superstars?

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 09:52 PM
He betrayed himself, it cost him a world series ring.

And he's still whining about it, too. :cool:

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 09:53 PM
Magglio is a stud, but he wasn't traded and I messed up what I wanted to post.

I've messed up a few posts today. The ****ing LSAT took all the energy out of my brain.

How about this.... Have we traded away any prospects who turned out to be absolute stud superstars?

Jeremy Reed.

Daver
06-12-2006, 09:54 PM
Magglio is a stud, but he wasn't traded and I messed up what I wanted to post.

I've messed up a few posts today. The ****ing LSAT took all the energy out of my brain.

How about this.... Have we traded away any prospects who turned out to be absolute stud superstars?

Does Sammy Sosa count?

RKMeibalane
06-12-2006, 09:55 PM
Does Sammy Sosa count?

*

Chips
06-12-2006, 09:57 PM
Does Sammy Sosa count?

If one can be considered a prospect who has had 2+ years of MLB service, then yes.

BadgerChisox
06-12-2006, 11:11 PM
Time will only tell. I am a huge Rowand and Thoms Fan, But one factor that will tell if the trade was benificial. This is the X factor. Thome or Thomas, who will get first. Both Great talents, but who will get hurt first.

We will see

CLR01
06-12-2006, 11:33 PM
Christ, I know that you guys are tired of hearing about Rowand, but don't you think that you are being a little extreme. Remember...the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.



You are right and I apologize to Rowand and all of his fans. Rowand is worth more than any random bag of balls but if it is a bag of brand new white game balls the bag wins out.