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View Full Version : Educating the Minds: Padres and Marlins


beausox
02-05-2002, 08:48 PM
I hate to pick on fellow posters, but longshot7 seems to think that the Marlins and Padres are not contending teams. I'm sure Kermit will back me when I say they are serious contenders, and both resemble the 2000 Sox. So no, as it was put, I have not been drinking Cubbie Kool-Aid.

The Marlins have got everything you need for a winning team. Luis Castillo is a lead-off guy who makes things happen on the bases, his lack of power is made up for by Cliff Floyd, Preston Wilson, Derrek Lee, Charles Johnson, Mike Lowell, and Kevin Millar. Wilson strikes out a lot, but anyone who reads Rob Neyer or Baseball Prospectus understands that strikeouts are not necessarily that bad. Wilson is also a 30-30 threat. Lowell hit less thatn 30 HR's last year,that number will increase, but still drove in 100 runs, thats production. They have one of the best, young rotations, in baseball with Dempster, Penny, Burnett, Beckett, and Clement. I would take anyone of those guys in our rotation. Their front office ability shows: Burnett, Penny, and Clement were acquired through trades. They also have a deep farm system with prosepcts such as Adrian Gonzalez, Chip Ambres, Pablo Ozuna, Abraham Nunez, and Wes Anderson. Overall they rival the Sox in terms of talent.

The Padres, turend Jay Witacsik into D'Angelo Jimenez, a potential gold glove second baseman. That rivals Glover for Eyre in my mind. HTey have three serious power threats, Trammell, Nevin, and Klesko. Lankford is also in a platoon with Trammell but if Bubba is traded, lankford gets another crack at 40 HR's. Their prospects are what makes this organization great. Guys like Sean Burroughs, Xavier Nady, Dennis tankersly, Brian Lawerence, Jake Peavy, and sleeper ben Johnson are the highlights of a deep system. This organization is building on pithcing and defense. Vazquez at SS, Jimenez at 2B, Gonzalez at C, and Kotsay is CF is the best defense up the middle in baseball.

This was a long post, but fellow posters need to understand that it won't always be the Braves and Yankees making hte post season. The Braves especially have made some bad moves singing Castilla and Lopez. Sheffield is a headache and that great rotation is a year older. Its going to be an exciting year.

Daver
02-05-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by beausox


The Marlins have got everything you need for a winning team.

The shambles that their front office is in will keep them out of contention this year,but they do have some serious young talent on that team.

longshot7
02-06-2002, 02:01 AM
the point is this: even though the Marlins and Padres look good, their divisons are way too tough for them to be anything other than competitive. The Marlins will compete for 3rd, behind the Braves and the Mets. Sheffield is not a headache, and they now have a consistent closer. The Mets... ned I say more? Offense anyone? In that division as well is the Phillies, who will be back and hungry. Don't count on the Fish (love them tho I do - 97 WS was beautiful) to make the postseason - that's all I'm saying.

and the Padres??? I love all these non-SoCal people pimping them. They're average. they have heart - that's all you can say about them. Good manager, closer, Nevin. average rotation. and inexperienced young guys all around. In a division with the D-Backs, the Giants, and yes , the Dodgers, the Padres will be battling for 4th. I saw them play 18 times last year - don't believe the hype.

effort is one thing - reality is another. In next year's postseason -ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Braves and the Yankees

beausox
02-06-2002, 08:30 PM
I Can't speak for the Marlins front office anymore, but before Dombrowski left, he made some great deals to set them up quite nicely for the future.

Lets look at what Kevin Towers has done in San Diego-

Bubba Trammell for Donne Wall

Phil Nevin for Andy Sheets

Dennis Tankersley FOR ED SPRAGUE!

Mark Kotsay for Matt Clement

D'Angelo Jimenez for Jay Witasik

Ryan Klesko AND Bret Boone for Quilvio Veras and Reggie Sanders

He also found Brian Tolberg in an independant league.

Also look at 3-5 hitters of any team in the NL West, the Padres are better than any of them.

Padres-Nevin, Klesko, Trammell
Dodgers-Green, Jordan, Karros
Rockies-Helton, Walker, Zeile
Giants-Kent, Bonds, Sanders
Diamondbacks-Gonzalez, Williams, Grace

The only team that closely compares is the Giants, but Sanders is frail and Trammell is bound to improve even more. I'll take the Padres in the West.

kermittheefrog
02-06-2002, 09:04 PM
Okay about that NL West. It's overrated Longshot. The D-Backs are defending champs and Schilling and Johnson will both be Cy Young candidates again but think about that offense. Last year they got a great year out of the aging Mark Grace, a career year out of Luis Gonzalez and a healthy Reggie Sanders. Grace will be 38, Gonzalez isn't gonna slug .688 again and Sanders is gone. No one in their offense can be expected to improve to make up for that loss of production. In fact, you can expect some bigtime offensive decline, Steve Finley will be 37, Tony Womack 32 and Matt Williams 36. They haven't even made any significant offeason acquisitions to help their offense.

The Dodgers no longer have their best hitter and pitcher from the last two seasons. And they traded away another good young pitcher in Luke Prokopec. This so they can have the usually injured Odalis Perez in the rotation, the mediocre Brian Jordan in right and the next Ozzie Guillen at short, Cesar Izturis.

The Giants got Reggie Sanders but it's an even year so he'll probably be injured and don't bet on Rich Aurilia and Barry Bonds combining for 110 homers again. That was only 11 less than the Devil Rays whole team.

And the Pads have more than heart my friend. Kevin Towers knows what he's doing, they lead the NL in walks last year and they were 5th among non-Rockies NL teams in scoring. Their offense should get better when they add Sean Burroughs to it. A full season of Ray Lankford will be an upgrade on Rickey Henderson. Their worst offensive player from last year, Damian Jackson will be replaced by Ramon Vazquez who hit .300 in AAA last year while walking 70+ times. Their starting pitchign is mediocre but they have two of the best pitching prospects in the game waiting in the wings, Dennis Tankersley and Jake Peavy. The Pads have a lot to be excited about.

czalgosz
02-06-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Okay about that NL West. It's overrated Longshot.



IMO, the entire National League is overrated. The National League is stocked with aging sluggers, but the American League is where most of the exciting young ballplayers are. The Padres and Marlins and Astros are exceptions to the general rule in the National League, which seems to be "Let's get old."

Daver
02-06-2002, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


IMO, the entire National League is overrated. The National League is stocked with aging sluggers, but the American League is where most of the exciting young ballplayers are. The Padres and Marlins and Astros are exceptions to the general rule in the National League, which seems to be "Let's get old."


:baylor


Veteran players win Championships,rookies just hurt your lineup.

czalgosz
02-06-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by daver



:baylor


Veteran players win Championships,rookies just hurt your lineup.

LOL! What's great about the Cubs' season last year is that they did just well enough to fool Cubs management that Don Baylor is a good manager.

longshot7
02-07-2002, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by beausox
Also look at 3-5 hitters of any team in the NL West, the Padres are better than any of them.

Padres-Nevin, Klesko, Trammell
Dodgers-Green, Jordan, Karros
Rockies-Helton, Walker, Zeile
Giants-Kent, Bonds, Sanders
Diamondbacks-Gonzalez, Williams, Grace

The only team that closely compares is the Giants, but Sanders is frail and Trammell is bound to improve even more. I'll take the Padres in the West.

Okay, so this is a few days old, but give me a break! The Padres 3-5 hitters are better than any other team in the West? Nevin is good sure - but Klesko and Trammell? These guys are better than Aurilia/Bonds/Kent (yes, I know they're 2-4)? And Green/Jordan/LoDuca (not Karros) Even Helton and Walker are better than the Padres' 3.

And the other thing is the pitching rotation. Where is it? The D-Backs, Giants, and the Dodgers have better rotations. Kerm, the Dodgers didn't lose their best pitcher. Hello Kevin Brown! ChanHo Park is an erratic no 3 at best. He's gonna be asked to CARRY the Rangers and you know what? He's gonna fail, because he can't handle big game pressure. Regardless of their lack of offense, with that rotation,I think the Dbacks have to be the favorite because of their pitchers.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have some personal vendetta against the Friars, but you can't reasonably expect them to qualify for the postseason, not with SF, LA, and AZ. Not gonna happen.