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PatK
06-07-2006, 03:09 PM
Now I know he's a Cub and everything and I'm supposed to hate him, but I'm thinking he's pitching days are numbered.

He's sore and visiting a doctor in Cleveland again. He's probably going to miss his next start, and there is hinting he'll go on the DL.

I'm torn between thinking he's just irrepairable and that the Cubs have rushed him along too fast.

What do you guys think?

Jerko
06-07-2006, 03:13 PM
What can anybody do? The guy's not gonna admit he's finished, the Cubs can't let him rot (or trade him) because they based their last 5 seasons on him and he's one of the Holy Trinity, so they'll just keep trotting him out every May or June, he'll get hurt, and the cycle will continue till his contract is up. Then he can go somewhere else, sit out a year and FULLY recover, and maybe be servicable.

TornLabrum
06-07-2006, 03:20 PM
What can anybody do? The guy's not gonna admit he's finished, the Cubs can't let him rot (or trade him) because they based their last 5 seasons on him and he's one of the Holy Trinity, so they'll just keep trotting him out every May or June, he'll get hurt, and the cycle will continue till his contract is up. Then he can go somewhere else, sit out a year and FULLY recover, and maybe be servicable.

I think there is a club option on him for 2007. Look for the Flubs not to pick it up.

Ol' No. 2
06-07-2006, 03:21 PM
If Wood has a future, it's as a reliever. He might even be good at it. But he'll never be able to pitch the number of innings required of a starter.

Flight #24
06-07-2006, 03:31 PM
From BaseballProspectus "Under the Knife": http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5172

Earl Weaver once said “when a pitcher’s done, the batters will tell you.” Lance Berkman (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/berkmla01.php) saw Kerry Wood (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/woodke02.php), and told the AP after the game that Kerry was “in pain.” Wood lacked command and velocity in his 3 2/3 inning stint after extra rest. Most tellingly, Wood’s slider was off, with Wood himself calling it a “show-me” slider. Wood appears to have returned to function, but not to form--not surprising given his quick recovery from shoulder surgery. Paired with his slow recovery between starts, it’s clear that his shoulder may not have the stamina needed to start just yet.

TDog
06-07-2006, 03:44 PM
I think there is a club option on him for 2007. Look for the Flubs not to pick it up.

As I read the terms of Wood's contract, if he pitches 334 innings this year, he has an option to return to the Cubs for $13.5 million in 2007 or becoming a free agent where he could make some real money. Because he won't, it looks like the Cubs will have an option of picking up his option for $13.5 million or paying him $3 million to turn him loose. I expect the Cubs to pay him the $3 million and re-sign him to an unusual contract. I don't expect the bidding for his services to get out of control.

If my employers gave me $3 million not to come back to work, they would never see me again, but I didn't strike out 20 in one game when I was a kid.

PatK
06-07-2006, 03:46 PM
If Wood has a future, it's as a reliever. He might even be good at it. But he'll never be able to pitch the number of innings required of a starter.

I keep hearing that, but he's always struggled with control in the early innings. That wouldn't suit him for the pen.

SOXPHILE
06-07-2006, 03:47 PM
If Wood has a future, it's as a reliever. He might even be good at it. But he'll never be able to pitch the number of innings required of a starter.

I'm not so sure. I know this has been debated before, but I think while he may do o.k. in one appearance, trouble might arise when he is called on to pitch on two consecutive days, or 3 times in 5 days. I don't think he can recover in time, even if his first appearance is only an inning or two, with 20 or 30 pitches. Plus, I'm not sure how he would do coming in out of the bullpen in the middle of an inning, say 1 out, guys on base. I could easily see him being a little wild at first and walking the first guy he faces, or trying to overthrow, get careless, and give up the big hit he was called in to prevent.

Ol' No. 2
06-07-2006, 03:48 PM
As I read the terms of Wood's contract, if he pitches 334 innings this year, he has an option to return to the Cubs for $13.5 million in 2007 or becoming a free agent where he could make some real money. Because he won't, it looks like the Cubs will have an option of picking up his option for $13.5 million or paying him $3 million to turn him loose. I expect the Cubs to pay him the $3 million and re-sign him to an unusual contract. I don't expect the bidding for his services to get out of control.

If my employers gave me $3 million not to come back to work, they would never see me again, but I didn't strike out 20 in one game when I was a kid.You don't think he has a chance to pitch 334 innings this year? He's already got 19.2. Only 314.1 to go.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2006, 05:11 PM
If he reaches free agency, I would not be opposed to the Sox signing him to a two-year deal and not expect him to pitch a single inning at any level for the first full year. I first would have him work with Herm Schneider on a rigorous training program designed to increase strength and mobility thoughout his entire body, and then spend several months with Don Cooper to rebuild his mechanics to begin to prepare him to be a reliever. In year two, I'd start him out in spring training, then assign him to play at least a full month in Birmingham (to play against the better hitting prospects but not in a bandbox like Charlotte). Then if things look promising, I'd bring him up in late May or June 2008 to solidify the bullpen. Who knows, he might become a dominant reliever like Dennis Eckersley....

Baby Fisk
06-07-2006, 05:17 PM
Sometime around the first week of October 2006, Kerry Wood will become an ex-Cub.

Frater, your proposal is so crazy it just might work.

Banix12
06-07-2006, 05:27 PM
Even after all the injuries this has really been the first time he has come back and looked weaker. He's not really throwing hard and his breaking stuff isn't there.

I'm still inclined to think he has a future if the right team gets a hold of him. I would love to see what a good pitching coach like a Leo Mazzone or Don Cooper or Mike Maddux could do with Kerry Wood.

And his future might be in relief. You would think the injuries would prevent that but take a guy like Cal Eldred who had been effective the last few years in the Cardinals pen and his injury history makes Wood's look like nothing. And he was pretty good on back-to-back days.

Also Wood was very good last season as a reliever. The positive of him coming out of the bullpen seemed to be that he was more capable of blowing away hitters with his fastball. Not having to worry about going 6 innings he just came out and threw 97-98 MPH (mind you he was also still hurt at the time and needed surgery, so it was probably not the smartest thing to do.)

Last year as a reliever. 2.25 ERA / 11 games / 12 innings / 0.75 WHIP / 4 hits / 3 ER / 5 BB / 17 K

I think this year Wood likely could be a lost cause, but I don't think his future is.

HebrewHammer
06-07-2006, 10:26 PM
Frater, your proposal is so crazy it just might work.

I doubt it will happen on the South Side, but I have to agree completely that Wood will pitch effectively again for someone. The cubs have to lead the league in guys who were "done" and went on to have long careers. Eck, Lee Smith, Jamie Moyer, Mike Harkey and Bob Tewksbury off the top of my head.

voodoochile
06-07-2006, 10:49 PM
Man walks into a doctors office, winds up and fakes the delivery of a fastball.

He looks at the doctor and says, "Doc it hurts when I do that."

Doctor looks at the man and says...

TornLabrum
06-07-2006, 11:04 PM
Man walks into a doctors office, winds up and fakes the delivery of a fastball.

He looks at the doctor and says, "Doc it hurts when I do that."

Doctor looks at the man and says...

"There's a spot for you in the Cubs starting rotation."

Johnny Mostil
06-07-2006, 11:11 PM
You don't think he has a chance to pitch 334 innings this year? He's already got 19.2. Only 314.1 to go.

That 334 IP clause has to be a misprint. I don't think anybody has pitched 300 innings in the past quarter century. (Carlton threw 304 in 1980.)

Of course, Wood probably won't pitch 234 innings this year. Or maybe even 134. Or 34?

TDog
06-07-2006, 11:25 PM
That 334 IP clause has to be a misprint. I don't think anybody has pitched 300 innings in the past quarter century. (Carlton threw 304 in 1980.)

Of course, Wood probably won't pitch 234 innings this year. Or maybe even 134. Or 34?

The clause specified 400 innings total for 2005 and 2006. Mr. Wood three only 66 innings in non-simulated National League games last year, leaving him in a position where he would have to pitch more than 30 complete games to decide his own fate.

Wilbur Wood used to approach 400 innings a year, but he was made of different stuff.

voodoochile
06-07-2006, 11:30 PM
The clause specified 400 innings total for 2005 and 2006. Mr. Wood three only 66 innings in non-simulated National League games last year, leaving him in a position where he would have to pitch more than 30 complete games to decide his own fate.

Wilbur Wood used to approach 400 innings a year, but he was made of different stuff.

Yeah, fat and rubber...

TornLabrum
06-07-2006, 11:38 PM
Yeah, fat and rubber...

Except for his kneecap.

Johnny Mostil
06-07-2006, 11:40 PM
The clause specified 400 innings total for 2005 and 2006. Mr. Wood three only 66 innings in non-simulated National League games last year, leaving him in a position where he would have to pitch more than 30 complete games to decide his own fate.

Wilbur Wood used to approach 400 innings a year, but he was made of different stuff.

OK, got it. Thanks.

Prior to Carlton, I see Phil Niekro threw 300 for several years. And Wood's '72 and '73 seasons look like the most in some time . . .

TDog
06-08-2006, 12:16 AM
Except for his kneecap.

Ouch. I was watched that game.

Banix12
06-08-2006, 01:14 AM
Ouch. I was watched that game.

Stalker or Police?

FedEx227
06-08-2006, 01:17 AM
Did you guys know he struck out 20 in 1998?

Steelrod
06-08-2006, 01:34 AM
Did you guys know he struck out 20 in 1998?
Locked up Hall of Fame that night!

ilsox7
06-08-2006, 01:46 AM
The same source that broke the story of Wood seeing the doctor again just reported that the sun will, in fact, rise in the EAST tomorrow.

Nellie_Fox
06-08-2006, 01:55 AM
If he reaches free agency, I would not be opposed to the Sox signing him to a two-year deal and not expect him to pitch a single inning at any level for the first full year. I first would have him work with Herm Schneider on a rigorous training program designed to increase strength and mobility thoughout his entire body, and then spend several months with Don Cooper to rebuild his mechanics to begin to prepare him to be a reliever.And then bring in a faith healer for a laying on of hands, because damage on top of damage on top of damage doesn't go away, no matter how long you give it or what changes you make to your mechanics.
Who knows, he might become a dominant reliever like Dennis Eckersley....Eckersley had a drinking problem, not an arm problem.

Ol' No. 2
06-08-2006, 10:46 AM
If he reaches free agency, I would not be opposed to the Sox signing him to a two-year deal and not expect him to pitch a single inning at any level for the first full year. I first would have him work with Herm Schneider on a rigorous training program designed to increase strength and mobility thoughout his entire body, and then spend several months with Don Cooper to rebuild his mechanics to begin to prepare him to be a reliever. In year two, I'd start him out in spring training, then assign him to play at least a full month in Birmingham (to play against the better hitting prospects but not in a bandbox like Charlotte). Then if things look promising, I'd bring him up in late May or June 2008 to solidify the bullpen. Who knows, he might become a dominant reliever like Dennis Eckersley....Why do you think it's going to take a whole year off for him to recover? He's had what amounts to the last two years off already. With a good off-season conditioning program and limited innings in relief (no more than 60 or so), I think his arm may hold up fine.

jenn2080
06-08-2006, 10:50 AM
unbelievable. They seriously need to let that guy go. He needs a good desk job. HE IS DONE AND DONE like a well done steak!

ewokpelts
06-08-2006, 11:11 AM
Why do you think it's going to take a whole year off for him to recover? He's had what amounts to the last two years off already. With a good off-season conditioning program and limited innings in relief (no more than 60 or so), I think his arm may hold up fine.the problem is that's he's paid 10 million A YEAR...you give that mooney to a closer or middle relief

Ol' No. 2
06-08-2006, 11:15 AM
the problem is that's he's paid 10 million A YEAR...you give that mooney to a closer or middle reliefNot next year he isn't.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2006, 12:05 PM
And then bring in a faith healer for a laying on of hands...

Eckersley had a drinking problem, not an arm problem.

Just because you personally don't believe the idea has a snowball's chance in hell doesn't mean you have to mock it. And for the record, I know Eckersley's problem was alcohol. My analogy was that Wood's stuff (when he's healthy) is good enough that if (admittedly a big if) he recovered from his arm troubles, he could be a dominant reliever, just like Eckersley became. My point is that if Wood became a free agent, it might be a low-risk, high-reward gamble for the Sox to take, the kind with which they have had a good record over the years (Burks, Eldred, Dye, Jenks, Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton). If it's timed right, he could catch lightning in a bottle in the pen for four months, help the Sox to the 2008 World Series, and then the Sox could trade him and two prospects for another starting pitcher (muck like turning El Duque, Young and Vizcaino into Vazquez) just before his arm falls off!

ewokpelts
06-08-2006, 12:12 PM
Not next year he isn't.is his contract up?

RedHeadPaleHoser
06-08-2006, 12:22 PM
Man walks into a doctors office, winds up and fakes the delivery of a fastball.

He looks at the doctor and says, "Doc it hurts when I do that."

Doctor looks at the man and says...

"Mr. Prior? Where's your towel?"

Or...

"We got you a new seat in the waiting room for you, Mr. Wood."

Ol' No. 2
06-08-2006, 01:20 PM
is his contract up?The Cubs have a $12M option on him for next year. Even the Cubs can't be that stupid.

Rob190
06-08-2006, 01:23 PM
The Cubs have a $12M option on him for next year. Even the Cubs can't be that stupid.

Never underestimate them.

SBSoxFan
06-08-2006, 02:09 PM
Man walks into a doctors office, winds up and fakes the delivery of a fastball.

He looks at the doctor and says, "Doc it hurts when I do that."

Doctor looks at the man and says...
"I have the perfect draft selection for you Mr. Hendry."

OK, how the Cubs didn't draft this guy (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/thiel/273042_thiel07.html), is a mystery

Picking up a phone to answer a call from the Seattle Mariners, highly regarded pitcher Brandon Morrow suffered an injury to his pitching elbow ...