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Hawkeroo1980
06-07-2006, 01:41 PM
Sean tracy called up


I wonder if this is a mental Break or there really is a problem physically?

SOXPHILE
06-07-2006, 01:43 PM
Just overheard that Cliff is going on the 15 day DL with shoulder inflamation. Sounded like they're bringing up a guy named Tracy from the minors.

1951Campbell
06-07-2006, 01:43 PM
Sean tracy called up


I wonder if this is a mental Break or there really is a problem physically?

I was wondering that too. There's a strong smell of a mercy trip to the DL, but I'll guess we'll have to wait and see.

The Dude
06-07-2006, 01:44 PM
Sean tracy called up


I wonder if this is a mental Break or there really is a problem physically?

I could care less either way. Problem solved!:D:

SBSoxFan
06-07-2006, 01:45 PM
Sean tracy called up


I wonder if this is a mental Break or there really is a problem physically?

Is it "legal" to put someone on the DL if he's not physically injured?

ChiSoxGirl
06-07-2006, 01:45 PM
If this is a physical problem, it would certainly explain the ballooning ERA, loss of control, and deflated dominance from last season!

The Dude
06-07-2006, 01:45 PM
Just overheard that Cliff is going on the 15 day DL with shoulder inflamation. Sounded like they're bringing up a guy named Tracy from the minors.

Cant get enough of these threads!!:bandance:

yesenia
06-07-2006, 01:45 PM
Im new. Hows Tracy doing? It doesnt look like another Haeger does it?

HotelWhiteSox
06-07-2006, 01:47 PM
I don't mean this in a bad way, but I hope it is something (and short term) so that when he comes back he can not suck

beckett21
06-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Is it "legal" to put someone on the DL if he's not physically injured?

You can always find *something* :wink:

:redneck

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2006, 01:50 PM
Quick, someone send some paramedics to Idaho - Lip is about to have a stroke (he loathes having to call up prospects). :tongue:

Seriously, Tracey has gotten nothing but positive write-ups in "Minor Observations." Let's see what he's got.

More importantly, let's hope that a stint on the DL cures whatever ails Politte and that he can find what it is that made him so good last year.

MikeLove
06-07-2006, 01:50 PM
Hopefully it *is* something physical, much easier to fix.

Baby Fisk
06-07-2006, 01:50 PM
Politte always seems very fragile out there, like he's about to blow several veins in his head. Politte had problems when the Jays tried to make him their closer in 2003. He ended that season 1-5 with a 5.66 ERA. He just couldn't seem to perform in the 9th inning. Cooper "worked his magic" when the Sox acquired Cliff and he was unstoppable last season, but perhaps he's run into another mental block. I hope he can turn it around and dominate again.

yesenia
06-07-2006, 01:53 PM
mental health issues? depression?

IlliniSox4Life
06-07-2006, 01:55 PM
Well, this is about as good of news as a guy going to the DL can be, and I don't mean that like it's good news to get rid of Politte.

1) He hasn't been pitching well. At the very worst, someone from the minors can continue not pitching well.
2) It gives us the possibility that there was something physically wrong with him that can be corrected. Hopefully it will only take 15 days, and hopefully it's not something along the lines of what it seems was and is ailing Koch.
3) 15 days will give him time to reset himself. He needs to clear his head and forget everything that has happened and come back refreshed.


Good luck Cliff, and come back stronger than ever.

The_Floridian
06-07-2006, 01:58 PM
Can one of our scouts give us a report on Tracey, por favor? What's he throw? Velocity? Out pitch(es)?

Inquiring minds (mine and my wife's) want to know.

kittle42
06-07-2006, 02:01 PM
Sounds like an NBA disabled list trip.

sullythered
06-07-2006, 02:14 PM
Maybe I'm crossed up, but I saw Montero warming in the pen yesterday (teus). Anybody know who went down or out for his call up?

jdm2662
06-07-2006, 02:14 PM
Ah yes, Cliffy has got a very popular injury that gets you on the DL: Inflamed ERA.

twentywontowin
06-07-2006, 02:17 PM
Reports surfacing that Cliff is on the DL because his feelings are hurt from gettng shelled these past few weeks.

Who knows what his problem is, but they need to fix it, and fast.

mcg
06-07-2006, 02:18 PM
Maybe I'm crossed up, but I saw Montero warming in the pen yesterday (teus). Anybody know who went down or out for his call up? Nelson

russ99
06-07-2006, 02:18 PM
Linkys for Tracey.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=434600

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Sean%20Tracey&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=434600

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/sean-tracey.shtml

All I can find online is a 1 sentance scouting report from last year: Sean Tracey throws a good mid-90s fastball and a plus slider. Tracey is probably the best arm in the Sox system, but control has been a problem.

OOPS - one more: from warmoctobernights.com:

Sean Tracey (RHP): Tracey is the owner of a pretty nice mid 90’s fastball, and a potential major league quality slider. As a starter, though, he’s going to have trouble getting by on those two alone, especially when combined with his control problems: his K/BB ratio was an unimpressive 106/76, in 163.2 innings. I think eventually the White Sox will move him to the bullpen, where his fastball will see a jump in velocity and he can safely focus on just two pitches. He doesn’t have Bobby Jenks type potential out of the ‘pen, but he’s got the stuff to be a setup guy.

TDog
06-07-2006, 02:26 PM
Sean tracy called up


I wonder if this is a mental Break or there really is a problem physically?

You're supposed to be injured if you're on the DL. There have been players who have gone on the DL for mental reasons. Zack Greinke is a recent example. In 1970, Tony Horton's promising career ended for mental reasons. But just having your game screwed up isn't enough to send you to the DL.

Still, injuries can be a matter of interpretation. When Ron Schueler, as a Sox pitcher, went on the DL, a sportswriter wrote that he was a "good soldier" who remembered to limp on the proper leg when the media was around.

kobo
06-07-2006, 02:28 PM
I am not happy to hear that he has control problems, and his K:BB ratio is nearly 1:1, but at this point he can't really be any worse than anyone else who's come out of the pen this year.

IronFisk
06-07-2006, 02:31 PM
Sean tracy called up


I wonder if this is a mental Break or there really is a problem physically?

tick tick tick

russ99
06-07-2006, 02:33 PM
I am not happy to hear that he has control problems, and his K:BB ratio is nearly 1:1, but at this point he can't really be any worse than anyone else who's come out of the pen this year.

Yeah, that 1.32 WHIP in the minors this year doesn't help either, but maybe Coop can help him with that. If he can straighten out Thornton, anything's possible.

I was hoping for a Javier Lopez callup this time, but no dice.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2006, 02:34 PM
Linkys for Tracey.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=434600

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Sean%20Tracey&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=434600

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/sean-tracey.shtml

All I can find online is a 1 sentance scouting report from last year: Sean Tracey throws a good mid-90s fastball and a plus slider. Tracey is probably the best arm in the Sox system, but control has been a problem.

OOPS - one more: from warmoctobernights.com:

Even if he only has two "plus" pitches, that ought to be enough to get through a complete opposing lineup once if called upon to do so. So, he ought to be good enough for up to two or three innings per series, which is good enough from a middle reliever.

Britt Burns
06-07-2006, 02:35 PM
Can one of our scouts give us a report on Tracey, por favor? What's he throw? Velocity? Out pitch(es)?

Inquiring minds (mine and my wife's) want to know.

One more thing about Tracey...he started this year in Charlotte's pen and didn't do that hot-not terrible, but he has performed much better as a starter. Hope that doesn't carry over into the bullpen. If we weren't overloaded on lefties I imagine they would have called up Phillips instead.

oeo
06-07-2006, 02:35 PM
Yeah, that 1.32 WHIP in the minors this year doesn't help either, but maybe Coop can help him with that. If he can straighten out Thornton, anything's possible.

I was hoping for a Javier Lopez callup this time, but no dice.

We already have 2 lefties in the pen, and only 1 righty that has gotten the job done all year (Jenks). I think it was a no-brainer.

getonbckthr
06-07-2006, 02:37 PM
This is honestly good news to me. It maybe explains his struggles. Hopefully the problem will be fixed, what ever it is, and Cliff will come back the guy he was last season.

MikeLove
06-07-2006, 02:37 PM
so he has a plus slider OR a potential major league slider

:whistle:


Hopefully hes got the former!

Ol' No. 2
06-07-2006, 02:42 PM
One more thing about Tracey...he started this year in Charlotte's pen and didn't do that hot-not terrible, but he has performed much better as a starter. Hope that doesn't carry over into the bullpen. If we weren't overloaded on lefties I imagine they would have called up Phillips instead.It's not good to read too much into a small number of appearances. They have to base the decision on what they've seen from him over a period of time. And you never really know for sure until you send him out there.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2006, 03:00 PM
Assuming this is a legit injury and frankly I have my doubts, then the Sox bullpen is in serious dung right now.

Looks like those clamoring for the 'kids,' are going to get their chance.

Hope it works out...we'll find out soon enough.

In the meantime I assume Kenny is fratically working the phones.

Lip

champagne030
06-07-2006, 03:08 PM
Even if he only has two "plus" pitches, that ought to be enough to get through a complete opposing lineup once if called upon to do so. So, he ought to be good enough for up to two or three innings per series, which is good enough from a middle reliever.

The only problem is he cannot command those two "plus" pitches. He has walkfest written all over him. Coop is good, but not a miracle worker or Cliff would've been pitching far better.

SweetnesSox
06-07-2006, 03:09 PM
I was hoping for a Javier Lopez callup this time, but no dice.

we've been sayin that for awhile... is there something wrong with him? (past issues, off-the-field issues, etc?) he's been owning AAA all season yet we've brought up three different relievers.

TDog
06-07-2006, 03:15 PM
Assuming this is a legit injury and frankly I have my doubts, then the Sox bullpen is in serious dung right now.

Looks like those clamoring for the 'kids,' are going to get their chance.

Hope it works out...we'll find out soon enough.

In the meantime I assume Kenny is fratically working the phones.

Lip

The Sox bullpen must be appreciably worse without Politte as an option.

A minor league callup can't do worse than he's been doing lately. He may do better. Jenks didn't suck last year.

russ99
06-07-2006, 03:16 PM
we've been sayin that for awhile... is there something wrong with him? (past issues, off-the-field issues, etc?) he's been owning AAA all season yet we've brought up three different relievers.

I guess because he's a lefty. Unless Cotts or Thornton (remember, no more options left) goes down, we probably won't see him.

Could he be trade bait for a solid righty reliever?!?

Chisoxfn
06-07-2006, 03:44 PM
Can one of our scouts give us a report on Tracey, por favor? What's he throw? Velocity? Out pitch(es)?

Inquiring minds (mine and my wife's) want to know. As someone thats seen him pitch before and having interviewed him in the past I think the Sox are calling up a high character guy that has one weakness (control). It should be noted that Tracey is willing to pitch inside (and not afraid to hit guys) and is the type of guy that doesn't get worked up over walks.

He has a lot of confidence in his stuff, a FB that can get into the mid 90's (the thing is sometimes I've seen him around 95, othertimes at 90-91) that has good sinking action and he also has a nice hard slider. He has been tinkering with a changeup and even a bit of a cutter or 2 seamer (I forget which), but I don't know if we'll see much of them when he's in the pen.

miker
06-07-2006, 03:47 PM
Ah yes, Cliffy has got a very popular injury that gets you on the DL: Inflamed ERA.
Maybe he hurt his neck spinning around to watch all those rockets he helped launch!

Here's hoping he heals and gets back to being close to the 2005 edition of Cliff Politte.

SBSoxFan
06-07-2006, 03:50 PM
I saw Tracey pitch in a spring training game last year against the Mariners. He blew the game. :angry: But I'll try not to hold that against him!

Also, is Farnsworth a lefty too?

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2006, 03:53 PM
The only problem is he cannot command those two "plus" pitches. He has walkfest written all over him. Coop is good, but not a miracle worker or Cliff would've been pitching far better.

The fact that Politte struggled despite Coop being his pitching coach demonstrates to me that Politte did not have a mechanical problem that Coop was able to spot and fix. Either that, or Coop tried to fix it and Politte just would not listen. Either way it's the same thing.

Let's give Tracey a shot and see if Coop can help him work on his control. Coop has worked great success with other reclamation projects - Loaiza, Contreras, Jenks and now Thornton.

Chisoxfn
06-07-2006, 03:53 PM
I saw Tracey pitch in a spring training game last year against the Mariners. He blew the game. :angry: But I'll try not to hold that against him!

Also, is Farnsworth a lefty too?
Jeff Farnsworth is a righty and IIRC he has pitched in the majors with the Tigers.

1917
06-07-2006, 03:54 PM
On the Down on the Farm report, Tracey pitched 7 innings last night, got the loss, but it was a 2 run game, even so, if he just pitched 7 innings, don't plan to see him for the next couple nights, unless it is just for a batter.

Dan Mega
06-07-2006, 03:57 PM
I sure hope he can get back to the righty-setup we saw last year. My favorite Sox player can't be done yet!

sox1970
06-07-2006, 04:15 PM
On the Down on the Farm report, Tracey pitched 7 innings last night, got the loss, but it was a 2 run game, even so, if he just pitched 7 innings, don't plan to see him for the next couple nights, unless it is just for a batter.

Tracey pitched Monday, so I would expect he could throw on Thursday since they usually pitch on the side on the third day.

thomas35forever
06-07-2006, 04:44 PM
This is either a blessing or a curse in disguise. I guess we'll find out over the next couple of weeks. If Tracey does well, maybe Politte will be gone.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2006, 04:56 PM
TDog:

Very true...however my comments were about the bullpen in 'general.'

This simply increases the pressure on everyone plus a factor no one has mentioned yet is how this effects Ozzie's decision making regarding his starters (i.e. does he let them try to go longer knowing the issues in the bullpen which appear to have come to a head this past week?)

Lip

hawkjt
06-07-2006, 05:11 PM
Levine said Cliff's velocity was down around 85 in his last appearance and speculated that he was hurt. He said that a couple of days ago.

Hope it is physical cuz nobody is trading good relief help to the world champs.

Chips
06-07-2006, 05:21 PM
This is the best news I've heard all year.

TDog
06-07-2006, 05:35 PM
TDog:

Very true...however my comments were about the bullpen in 'general.'

This simply increases the pressure on everyone plus a factor no one has mentioned yet is how this effects Ozzie's decision making regarding his starters (i.e. does he let them try to go longer knowing the issues in the bullpen which appear to have come to a head this past week?)

Lip

I think Ozzie has always gone longer with starters than some managers would. I believe that was one of the reasons his bullpen was so successful last year. The less exposure bullpen pitchers get, the harder they are to figure out. Some relievers don't have enough to be successful once a hitter has seen them a few times. That may be the case with Politte this season, just as Politte's success last season may have been attributable to the way Ozzie used him.

Ozzie has made it clear that he won't leave his starter out thee for 120 or 130 pitches like some managers do, but there are games where you wonder why Garcia or Vazquez or Gerland is still out there in the fifth or sixth.

Bullpen success, though, is so fragile that I can understand why most general managers hesitate to give up a lot for veteran relief pitchers.

The Tigers' bullpen has lost two games late in less than a week. In both case it was veteran bullpen guys. It was a Tigers' rookie who got Thome and Konerko with the bases loaded to protect the two-run lead.

RowanDye
06-07-2006, 05:40 PM
TDog:

Very true...however my comments were about the bullpen in 'general.'

This simply increases the pressure on everyone plus a factor no one has mentioned yet is how this effects Ozzie's decision making regarding his starters (i.e. does he let them try to go longer knowing the issues in the bullpen which appear to have come to a head this past week?)

Lip

Maybe this officially signals a deficiency in the bullpen, but I see it as a positive for the bullpen in general.

Unless Politte was going to suddenly find himself, he was at best no better than Montero or Tracey.

He did not get outs, he did not eat innings, he did not do anything except give up a lot of runs.

Politte was not taking any pressure off of the bullpen, so I do not see how him going on the DL increases pressure on anyone except for KW to get something done.

If he had not already figured it out, I'm glad that Ozzie won't be able to make starting pitching decisions based on the availability of Cliff Politte.

Jjav829
06-07-2006, 05:42 PM
I think Politte has the same injury Todd Ritchie had when he made that convenient trip to the DL to avoid losing 20 games...

California Sox
06-07-2006, 05:50 PM
Politte has not been right all year, even in the spring. I suspect he was trying to soldier on and that he couldn't continue anymore. He lost almost 10 mph on his fastball and that doesn't happen for no reason.

I've never been the biggest Tracey fan, but I will say this: He's the best option we've got right now. The cupboard is pretty bare as far as relievers from the right side is concerned. I hope he is able to adapt quickly.

jongarlandlover
06-07-2006, 05:55 PM
so, is this a mental issue or an actual injury? either way, it doesn't matter much to me. i'm glad i won't have to worry about him coming in and blowing a game or something like that. and i'm still wondering why they're not calling up lopez, he's been doing great.

gf2020
06-07-2006, 06:03 PM
This is the best news I've heard all year.
White Sox acquire Jim Thome ranks a distant second.

QCIASOXFAN
06-07-2006, 06:11 PM
I just hope he comes back and does well because he is not the same guy that we saw last year, mental or physical whatever is wrong with him I hope he bounces back.

Chisox1500
06-07-2006, 06:27 PM
The Sox got Thome last November.

Falstaff
06-07-2006, 06:36 PM
Well, this is about as good of news as a guy going to the DL can be, and I don't mean that like it's good news to get rid of Politte.

1) He hasn't been pitching well. At the very worst, someone from the minors can continue not pitching well.
2) It gives us the possibility that there was something physically wrong with him that can be corrected. Hopefully it will only take 15 days, and hopefully it's not something along the lines of what it seems was and is ailing Koch.
3) 15 days will give him time to reset himself. He needs to clear his head and forget everything that has happened and come back refreshed.


Good luck Cliff, and come back stronger than ever.
yes, I am thinking he should start getting massage with Oil of Wintergreen. It works great and maybe they can get some talented ladies to administer. Cliff shoulder will be all loosened up, as well as mind = 94mph to the spots.

santo=dorf
06-07-2006, 10:03 PM
Assuming this is a legit injury and frankly I have my doubts, then the Sox bullpen is in serious dung right now.

Looks like those clamoring for the 'kids,' are going to get their chance.

Hope it works out...we'll find out soon enough.

In the meantime I assume Kenny is fratically working the phones.

Lip
Jason Grimsley was released today. We can never get enough "veteran" help like Mike Jackson, Rick White, and Jeff Nelson!!!

Lip Man 1
06-07-2006, 10:29 PM
Dorf:

When Nelson has pitched enough to get a read on him one way or another then you can talk.

You feel your way is best, I feel my way is best, like I told No. 2 there is no right way or wrong way here...it's a matter of philosophy and payroll.

But the facts are according to Baseball America, nine out of ten minor league players never see one day in the big leagues. Of the individuals who do, 1% of them actually become a regular contributor.

Given those odds I'll stay with my philosophy, but that's just me. I don't like longshots never have, never will.

And I guess castoffs and veterans like oh Hoyt Wilhelm, Eddie Fisher, Don Mossi, Don McMahon, Lerrin LaGrow, Dennis Lamp, Barry Jones, Paul Assenmacher and Dennis Cook weren't worth a damn. (see two can play at your game Dorf..)

Lip

getonbckthr
06-07-2006, 10:43 PM
Ozzie has made it clear that he won't leave his starter out thee for 120 or 130 pitches like some managers do, but there are games where you wonder why Garcia or Vazquez or Gerland is still out there in the fifth or sixth.

.
Who's that??

TornLabrum
06-07-2006, 10:44 PM
Who's that??

Jen Gerland. :redneck

santo=dorf
06-07-2006, 10:46 PM
Dorf:

When Nelson has pitched enough to get a read on him one way or another then you can talk.

You feel your way is best, I feel my way is best, like I told No. 2 there is no right way or wrong way here...it's a matter of philosophy and payroll.

But the facts are according to Baseball America, nine out of ten minor league players never see one day in the big leagues. Of the individuals who do, 1% of them actually become a regular contributor.

Given those odds I'll stay with my philosophy, but that's just me. I don't like longshots never have, never will.

And I guess castoffs and veterans like oh Hoyt Wilhelm, Eddie Fisher, Don Mossi, Don McMahon, Lerrin LaGrow, Dennis Lamp, Barry Jones, Paul Assenmacher and Dennis Cook weren't worth a damn. (see two can play at your game Dorf..)

Lip
Oh please Lip.

Anybody from the 21st century that sticks out?

Lip Man 1
06-07-2006, 10:57 PM
Dorf:

ALL of those guys were veterans that the Sox picked up and they made major contributions.

Stop trying to limit things because it blows your comments to hell and back.

As stated there is no right or wrong way in this. Veterans succeed and veterans fail, 'can't miss kids' sometimes succeed.

It's a matter of philosophy. Mine happens to be not directed towards kids who don't even know where the pitching mound is

"Young rhymes with dumb..."-Buddy Ryan
"The only thing rookies do is get managers fired..." - Casey Stengel.

Lip

The Dude
06-07-2006, 11:04 PM
Dorf:

ALL of those guys were veterans that the Sox picked up and they made major contributions.

Stop trying to limit things because it blows your comments to hell and back.

As stated there is no right or wrong way in this. Veterans succeed and veterans fail, 'can't miss kids' sometimes succeed.

It's a matter of philosophy. Mine happens to be not directed towards kids who don't even know where the pitching mound is

"Young rhymes with dumb..."-Buddy Ryan
"The only thing rookies do is get managers fired..." - Casey Stengel.

Lip
I agree with the veteran philosophy and would like KW to pick up a proven vet or two to fill the 2 RHP spots in the pen instead of going with Tracy and Montero.

Chips
06-07-2006, 11:29 PM
The Sox got Thome last November.

Thank you, best news all year.

gobears1987
06-08-2006, 12:58 AM
I hope it is a real injury. I like Politte, but if it's a real injury, it would explain his performance. If this is the case, then he can come back and dominate as he did in 05.

RadioheadRocks
06-08-2006, 01:13 AM
Just overheard that Cliff is going on the 15 day DL with shoulder inflamation. Sounded like they're bringing up a guy named Tracy from the minors.


"Trac(e)y when I'm with you
Something you do
Bounces me off the ceiling..."

Guess I've been hanging around the "One Hit Wonders" thread a little too much! :D:

Lip Man 1
06-08-2006, 12:42 PM
In the newspaper today (Sun-Times I think) Ozzie admitted he and Kenny have already had talks about getting trade help for the bullpen but Ozzie said right now, no one is willing to deal, it's to early. He said he thinks the club can get through this.

Left unsaid but implied was that when the calander turns to July things are going to heat up.

Let's hope this patch work pile of pitchers can do a good job and keep from losing to many leads until Kenny has a better chance to solidify things and correct his mistake.

Lip

oeo
06-08-2006, 12:47 PM
In the newspaper today (Sun-Times I think) Ozzie admitted he and Kenny have already had talks about getting trade help for the bullpen but Ozzie said right now, no one is willing to deal, it's to early. He said he thinks the club can get through this.

Left unsaid but implied was that when the calander turns to July things are going to heat up.

Let's hope this patch work pile of pitchers can do a good job and keep from losing to many leads until Kenny has a better chance to solidify things and correct his mistake.

Lip
I still think it's about how Ozzie manages it, at this point. If a guy is getting in trouble, and obviously does not have it...get him out of there. Everyone should be on a short leash. Especially guys like Montero and Tracey. Ozzie did the right thing getting Montero out of there last night, and I hope he would have done the same even if a righty came to the plate.

StockdaleForVeep
06-08-2006, 02:20 PM
Is it "legal" to put someone on the DL if he's not physically injured?

What professional athlete doesnt have some form of pain to deal with? Just use that