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nedlug
06-07-2006, 01:25 PM
Now, I know that your best, most fearsome hitter should be htiting 3rd, but after Thome failed to get a runner from 3rd home with less than two outs twice last night, I'm beginning to think that he should be batting 4th.

This thread is not meant to take away from his great season or the fear factor he brings to pitchers, but it just seems to me that he's better suited for 4th, behind Konerko - maybe even 5th behind JD & PK (JD hit his 17th homer last night, and doesn't clog up the basepaths as much). Switching PK & JT not only would let each hitter hit more toward their abilities, but would also bring a great R-L-R-L 3-6 hitters to the lineup.

What do you all think?

Chicken Dinner
06-07-2006, 01:29 PM
IIRC PK left more runners on than Big Jim.

yesenia
06-07-2006, 01:29 PM
Well I dont think there is anything wrong with changing the line up a little. I would be good to see if any big changes would be made. He has come in pretty handy in the 3rd spot but maybe 4th wouldnt hurt. It is worth a shot

walrus
06-07-2006, 01:29 PM
maybe paulie and thome could switch, as paulie is sometimes a little better with contact. but JD needs to stay where he is, because much of his success this year is due to hitting behind those guys.

SoxFan76
06-07-2006, 01:30 PM
Thome gets on base more, which means Konerko gets a chance to bat in the 1st inning more often. Plus it keeps the L/R thing that the Sox got going 1-4

Ol' No. 2
06-07-2006, 01:37 PM
IIRC PK left more runners on than Big Jim.Exactly. Konerko didn't drive those runners in, either. But the biggest reason to bat Thome 3rd is because of the better OBP. He draws a lot of walks, and that's another runner on base ahead of the 4-5 hitters.

pythons007
06-07-2006, 01:53 PM
I like the L/R combo they have going 1-4. Pods, Guch, Thome, Konerko, thats awesome. Well rounded and I think Thome should stay in the 3rd spot due to all the walks he gets.

IlliniSox4Life
06-07-2006, 01:58 PM
First of all, you change your lineup based on one game or even a couple of games.

Second, the only thing I would like to see out of Thome is less Ks. But that is not going to happen, and I can live with it becaue of everything else he brings to the table.

We have the best 3-4-5 in baseball. There's no reason to be messin with that.

shes
06-07-2006, 02:13 PM
Why mess with something that has been working so well all year?

If you want to get on anyone, get on Paulie. I know he had a hell of a postseason, but the guy becomes an average-to-below average hitter in close and late situations. Been that way his whole career.

Deuce
06-07-2006, 02:17 PM
In case you haven't noticed over the years, Paulie + 3rd spot = suckitude. He likes the 4th spot (where he does well at), and I doubt any change will happen as long as Thome is in the line up.

And lets not be too hard on Thome... yesterday was his first game in a few days.

Deuce

fquaye149
06-07-2006, 02:20 PM
IIRC PK left more runners on than Big Jim.

Here here. Paulie's not so far removed from his GIDPaul Konerko days. He's come a long way, but he still tends to hit the ball on the ground a lot in addition to hitting into a lot of double plays. Not exactly the ideal combination for a #3 hitter, especially when you consider his obp's significantly lower than Thome's

Chip Z'nuff
06-07-2006, 02:22 PM
Well I dont think there is anything wrong with changing the line up a little. I would be good to see if any big changes would be made. He has come in pretty handy in the 3rd spot but maybe 4th wouldnt hurt. It is worth a shot
Right on yes, not only moving thome to 4 would give pods an incentive to move into scoring position, as it stands, if pods gets to second either through a sac or steal, thebase is automatically given to Thome, in hopes that pk would hit into a dp.

If pk is up no pitcher is going to put him on to bat to thome with two men on.

IlliniSox4Life
06-07-2006, 02:42 PM
Also, if you ARE going to make a change, I think the best change to make would be put Dye 3rd, Thome 4th, and PK 5th. That is assuming Dye can keep up the production dropping down into the 3 hole with Thome and PK behind him so he gets some pitches to hit. I think Dye did an exceptional job batting 3 last year when he did.


Thome has a higher OBP, which means he walks more, but he also strikes out more. If he strikes out to end an inning, so be it, but I HATE having a RISP with one out and getting a K. A runner on 3rd with 1 out SHOULD score. Dye, with his better avg and less Ks is better suited for the role of bringing Pods or Iguchi in if they are on 3rd. Thome either Ks, walks, or hits a home run. Only one of those will bring a runner in from third (assuming the bases aren't loaded). With Thome in the 4 hole, he's still getting on ahead of Konerko.

I guess my point is, we are leaving too many runners on base. If Pods gets on, steals a base, and Gooch bunts him over, I have more confidence in Dye to put the ball in play to get Pods home than Thome. When Thome was on fire and not King, so were we, but we all know he is a streak hitter. Since he's cooled, so has the team. I think switching Dye to 3rd would put a hot hitter back in the spot.

All that said, it's a thin line you're walking, and I would probably just assume stay with Thome-Konerko-Dye 3-4-5 than mess with Dye's production.

getonbckthr
06-07-2006, 02:48 PM
Ride JD while he is hot and switch Paulie and JD. Right now in their current situations JD is the better more consistent hitter and I think would provide better protection than Paulie right now. I read somewhere, but to lazy to look it up, that Paulie hit like .234 in May. Maybe making the switch will put less pressure on Paulie to get on track especially with AJ behind him batting like .330.

Chip Z'nuff
06-07-2006, 02:51 PM
The lineup is definately flawed. If you are going to keep Anderson in the game he has to be protected,

lord knows i can never manage a baseball team but lets give this a shot
pods
gooch
dye
thome
konerko
anderson
aj
crede
uribe

IlliniSox4Life
06-07-2006, 03:02 PM
The lineup is definately flawed. If you are going to keep Anderson in the game he has to be protected,

lord knows i can never manage a baseball team but lets give this a shot
pods
gooch
dye
thome
konerko
anderson
aj
crede
uribe

I think you have it right until you get to Anderson. Protection isn't going to do much when you just aren't hitting.

Personally, I would go
Pods
Gooch
Dye
Thome
Konerko
AJ
Crede
Uribe
Anderson

Chip Z'nuff
06-07-2006, 03:14 PM
I think you have it right until you get to Anderson. Protection isn't going to do much when you just aren't hitting.

Personally, I would go
Pods
Gooch
Dye
Thome
Konerko
AJ
Crede
Uribe
Anderson

My main reason for switching up the lineup for ba is to see how he can react in less pressure situations, as it stands the 9 hole has to produce because aj and crede are banging the hell out of the ball, leaving anderson to clean up. Put him in after konerko cleans things up might give him a few less stressful ab's

SBSoxFan
06-07-2006, 03:31 PM
Exactly. Konerko didn't drive those runners in, either. But the biggest reason to bat Thome 3rd is because of the better OBP. He draws a lot of walks, and that's another runner on base ahead of the 4-5 hitters.
Konerko didn't have a chance to bat with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. In each case, after Thome struck out, Pk hit a fly ball. All things being equal, if those at bats are switched, PK has 2 sac flies. This happened once in Toronto as well, IIRC.

I understand the reason for Thome batting 3rd due to the higher OBP, and I haven't compared any strikeout numbers, but when Thome is in a bad streak he strikes out a lot --- not what you want from a #3 hitter.

peeonwrigley
06-07-2006, 03:47 PM
Konerko didn't have a chance to bat with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. In each case, after Thome struck out, Pk hit a fly ball. All things being equal, if those at bats are switched, PK has 2 sac flies. This happened once in Toronto as well, IIRC.

I understand the reason for Thome batting 3rd due to the higher OBP, and I haven't compared any strikeout numbers, but when Thome is in a bad streak he strikes out a lot --- not what you want from a #3 hitter.
Thome's K's are especially exemplified when the leadoff hitter has a propensity to get to 3rd, and Pods + Iguchi often equals a runner on 3rd for the 3 spot in the order. Thome has 56 K's to PK's 38 (Iguchi has 48, Dye has 34 for comparison).

Its not a bad thought, IMO, to shift our 3, 4, 5 around a bit if the offense gets stuck in a major rut. At this point I would leave it the way it is, though.

bluestar
06-07-2006, 06:36 PM
I'm not for changing the lineup, but I really do not understand how someone that has been playing professional baseball as long as Thome does not at least put the ball in play in those runner-on-third-less-than-two-outs situations. I could stomach a GIDP, a pop-up to the infield or in foul territory that is caught...anything but a strikeout. It is just a personal pet peeve of mine. Striking out with a runner on third and less than two outs is one of the most irritating things a player can do as far as I am concerned. I know it is going to happen from time to time, but twice in the same game? Ugh.

ilsox7
06-07-2006, 06:38 PM
I'm not for changing the lineup, but I really do not understand how someone that has been playing professional baseball as long as Thome does not at least put the ball in play in those runner-on-third-less-than-two-outs situations. I could stomach a GIDP, a pop-up to the infield or in foul territory that is caught...anything but a strikeout. It is just a personal pet peeve of mine. Striking out with a runner on third and less than two outs is one of the most irritating things a player can do as far as I am concerned. I know it is going to happen from time to time, but twice in the same game? Ugh.

A) He strikes out a ton to begin with.
B) He had not seen live pitching in 5 days.
C) It happens.

bluestar
06-07-2006, 06:42 PM
A) He strikes out a ton to begin with.
B) He had not seen live pitching in 5 days.
C) It happens.

Yeah, I know. I'm not going to have a stroke over it or anything, and the fact he had been off a few days and has a tendency to strike out are big factors. It's still frustrating, though. :wink:

ilsox7
06-07-2006, 06:43 PM
Yeah, I know. I'm not going to have a stroke over it or anything, and the fact he had been off a few days and has a tendency to
strike out are big factors. It's still frustrating, though. :wink:
I hear ya. Just pointing out that it wasn't totally surprising.

Sox-o-matic
06-08-2006, 12:19 AM
The 2-3 combo of Iguchi and Thome are going to put up a lot of strike outs in a game, but they are also going to do a lot of good things as well.

In a perfect world we would have someone there who could make more contact for situations like tonight when there is a runner on third with less than two outs, but its not a perfect world. If say JD was batting third and Thome 5th just for the sake of the argument, JD might drive in that run one inning but then Thome could leave a runner stranded with a strikeout two innings later.

Overall though I'm pretty happy with our 1-7 right now when Pods is getting on base. Guys like Iguchi and Thome are going to leave a lot of guys on base with K's, but they are also going to get on base a lot and drive in a lot of big runs.

nedlug
06-08-2006, 01:32 PM
OK, I can definitely understand where you guys are coming from between Thome/Konerko, but shouldn't our best hitter/runner/player be batting third? I believe that would be Dye. Also, I don't buy the argument that his success is because he's behind PK and JT; I think it's just because he's a heckuva player. JD wouldn't clog up the basepaths as much, like I said, and Thome/PK would provide a helluva lot of protection. If I were Ozzie (obviously, which I am not), I would do the JD-JT-PK 3-4-5.

ChiSoxFan7
06-08-2006, 01:38 PM
this discussion is all double edged. first thoughts of splitting up the DP duo of PK and Thome by inserting JD is great. but then you lose the succes JD has been having with 1 or 2 baserunners. My final thought is that i don't think it's really broken so why fix it. This seems like another let's move Iguchi to 5th *shiver*....As of now our offense doesn't need help it's our bullpen (save Jenks)



Here's too moving Iguchi to fifth, Thome to 9th and Konerko to lead off.:tongue:

NorthSideSox72
06-08-2006, 01:44 PM
Jim Thome is 5 for 9 with less than two outs and a runner on third this year. That's a .556 average. Let's have some perspective here.

Plus the guy has like a .450 OBP, one of the best in baseball. Dye is having a great season thus far, but Thome is (in the long view) by far the superior hitter.

And, this lineup works great.

Leave it alone.

Ol' No. 2
06-08-2006, 02:36 PM
I'm not for changing the lineup, but I really do not understand how someone that has been playing professional baseball as long as Thome does not at least put the ball in play in those runner-on-third-less-than-two-outs situations. I could stomach a GIDP, a pop-up to the infield or in foul territory that is caught...anything but a strikeout. It is just a personal pet peeve of mine. Striking out with a runner on third and less than two outs is one of the most irritating things a player can do as far as I am concerned. I know it is going to happen from time to time, but twice in the same game? Ugh.You'd rather have a GIDP than a strikeout???:?::?::?:

bluestar
06-08-2006, 03:09 PM
You'd rather have a GIDP than a strikeout???:?::?::?:

Obviously one out is better than two, but my point is that a veteran batter needs to make some kind of contact in that particular situation. At least force the defense to make the play, rather than just striking out.

goon
06-08-2006, 05:56 PM
meh, i think the "everyday" lineup (with uribe and anderson batting eighth and ninth) is probably the best lineup for the sox to be offensively successful. personally, i believe putting dye in the 3 spot would just be tampering with a good thing, probably one of the reasons he is hitting so well is because he bats right behind thome then paulie.

... with exception to paulie and obviously juan and BA, everyone is hitting very well right now, though i have no fear about paulie, he always goes through slumps like this. dye has 18 HR's is batting .313, thome has 21 HR's and is batting .295. i'd like to see him get on base a little more, but what can you do.