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irish rover
02-05-2002, 12:58 PM
Cubs marketing at its best

http://www.chicagofreepress.com/oatb/index.html

http://cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/ticketing/chc_schedule_promotions.jsp?club_context=chc

notice the lack of basball related stuff such as gloves etc. for the kids, though Precious moments, Kermit the frog, and 2 pez dispensor days are nice

Cheryl
02-05-2002, 01:27 PM
The Moises Alou Celebriduck?

Anyone tell Alou about that?

NUCatsFan
02-05-2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
The Moises Alou Celebriduck?

Anyone tell Alou about that?

Gosh...those Celebriducks look horrid. Who was the moron who came up with that idea?

moochpuppy
02-05-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by NUCatsFan


Gosh...those Celebriducks look horrid. Who was the moron who came up with that idea?


Looks like Sosa's wife after a recent beating.



:shammy
"That last time she sleep with Mark Grace!"

irish rover
02-05-2002, 03:31 PM
I wonder if Richard Simmons is going to do the 7th inning stretch at the 2nd annual Out at the ballgame

Fisk Fan
02-05-2002, 05:26 PM
Saturday August 3, 2002 - Fan Clinic

Is this the day when the drunken fans teach the Cubs proper throwing and hitting technique?

BTW, what the hell is a celibriduck?

Cheryl
02-05-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Fisk Fan



BTW, what the hell is a celibriduck?

A duck that doesn't...you know. A duck that's taken a vow. Like a priest.

NUCatsFan
02-05-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


A duck that doesn't...you know. A duck that's taken a vow. Like a priest.

Actually, that's a Celibaduck..the R is key :):

Anyway, this is what I got from the 6ers web site on NBA.com:

http://origin.nba.com/media/sixers/duck_water_small.gif


Linky to NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/Sixers_AllStar_Promotions_0102.html)

Cheryl
02-05-2002, 06:53 PM
I asked a few friends what they'd like to see as new promos at the real ballpark, and here's some suggestions:

Pin the Bangs on Bud Selig Night;

Paint your Seat Night (dark green, so we can get rid of that sea of Dodger Blue);

New Age Demolition;

White Sox Dutch Husband Day (I'm not explaining that one except it's a play on the term 'dutch wife.' You don't know what a dutch wife is, go look it up.);

Jerry Reinsdorf Dunking at the Speed Pitch machine...

There were more, but I've forgotten. Anyone else have suggestions?

Daver
02-05-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


There were more, but I've forgotten. Anyone else have suggestions?

Pin the tail on Royce using a compound bow night?


Tar and feather Nardi night?

You pick the line-up night( you have to supply your own hat)?

Nellie_Fox
02-06-2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Paint your Seat Night (dark green, so we can get rid of that sea of Dodger Blue)
I continue to be amazed by how many people care what color the seats are. I'm far more concerned with how well I can see the game from my seat than what color it is. I guess green was better, but it doesn't make my top 1000 list of things I'm concerned about.

bjmarte
02-06-2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
I asked a few friends what they'd like to see as new promos at the real ballpark, and here's some suggestions:

Pin the Bangs on Bud Selig Night;

Paint your Seat Night (dark green, so we can get rid of that sea of Dodger Blue);

New Age Demolition;

White Sox Dutch Husband Day (I'm not explaining that one except it's a play on the term 'dutch wife.' You don't know what a dutch wife is, go look it up.);

Jerry Reinsdorf Dunking at the Speed Pitch machine...

There were more, but I've forgotten. Anyone else have suggestions?

I guess we won't be having Kip Wells / Depends night again this year.

Cheryl
02-06-2002, 03:26 PM
I have this argument all the time. The seats should be green. In the grand scheme, there are many, many things much more important than that.

I want stud pitching, Golden Glove defense and a batting order that strikes fear into the opposition first. Then a few other things (let Nancy play more!) and way down the list is changing the seat color.

I think I have my priorities in order. But still, the blue is so wrong.

Kilroy
02-06-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
]I think I have my priorities in order. But still, the blue is so wrong.

Is it wrong in Yankee Stadium??

I don't think anyone in NY gives a rat's ass.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Is it wrong in Yankee Stadium??

I don't think anyone in NY gives a rat's ass.

Give me one good reason the seats should have been blue? The cost of installing green ones was exactly the same. Furthermore, Comiskey Park featured kelly green seats for 15 years prior to its destruction in 1991. While some seats were powder blue (and others red) in the 1960's and early-70's, all of the seats were kelly green for several decades prior to that--including the 1959 league championship season.

More than that, early renderings of New Comiskey showed all the seats (and the outfield wall) in green. Why was this changed? We shouldn't even be discussing this.

Chalk it up to more front office incompetence by the Chicago White Sox. Are any of us really that surprised?

Nellie_Fox
02-06-2002, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Golden Glove defense and a batting order that strikes fear into the opposition first.
Just to be pedantic, I'll point out that Golden Gloves are in boxing, baseball give the Gold Glove.
But still, the blue is so wrong.
Seriously, why? I don't see the problem.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Seriously, why? I don't see the problem.

Why you ask? I realize the photo in your sig file is black & white, but take my word for it when I tell you the seats behind Nellie's head are kelly green. That's why.

If you want more photographic proof, I'll be happy to provide it.

Nellie_Fox
02-06-2002, 04:11 PM
I know what color the seats were in the old ballpark. I just don't think it's a big deal that the seats in the new park are a different color. The old park also often put me behind a pillar, or so far up under the upper deck that I couldn't see the scoreboard. I don't see anyone being all nostalgiac about obstructed view seats, or seats that had so little legroom that people of my size had to sit sideways the whole game. So why are blue seats such a bone of contention?

Now, you want to talk about the upper reaches of the new upper deck, and I'm right there with you.

Kilroy
02-06-2002, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Why you ask? I realize the photo in your sig file is black & white, but take my word for it when I tell you the seats behind Nellie's head are kelly green. That's why.

If you want more photographic proof, I'll be happy to provide it.

We've done this before. I say it doesn't matter. Somehow, to you, it does. It doesn't keep u away from the park does it? If it did, I'd think u didn't wanna go in the first place. Do u honestly think something would be different in White-Sox-world if the seats in the park had been green from day one instead of blue? Every other thing staying the same, every pitch, out, strike, manager, or whatever, just green seats instead of blue. What would be the difference?

Cheryl
02-06-2002, 04:34 PM
Well, in some small way that I wouldn't even understand, I'd be happier if the blue seats never existed. But I wouldn't know I was, since I never saw the blue seats.

doublem23
02-06-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Chalk it up to more front office incompetence by the Chicago White Sox. Are any of us really that surprised?

Come on, front office incompetence and the White Sox mix like oil and water...

cheeses_h_rice
02-06-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


We've done this before. I say it doesn't matter. Somehow, to you, it does. It doesn't keep u away from the park does it? If it did, I'd think u didn't wanna go in the first place. Do u honestly think something would be different in White-Sox-world if the seats in the park had been green from day one instead of blue? Every other thing staying the same, every pitch, out, strike, manager, or whatever, just green seats instead of blue. What would be the difference?

:giangreco

Trust me, Kilroy, there'd be a WORLD of difference.

I loooove showing those empty blue seats!

voodoochile
02-06-2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by NUCatsFan


Actually, that's a Celibaduck..the R is key :):

Anyway, this is what I got from the 6ers web site on NBA.com:

http://origin.nba.com/media/sixers/duck_water_small.gif


Linky to NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/Sixers_AllStar_Promotions_0102.html)

Daver - target practice, 12:00...

voodoochile
02-06-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


We've done this before. I say it doesn't matter. Somehow, to you, it does. It doesn't keep u away from the park does it? If it did, I'd think u didn't wanna go in the first place. Do u honestly think something would be different in White-Sox-world if the seats in the park had been green from day one instead of blue? Every other thing staying the same, every pitch, out, strike, manager, or whatever, just green seats instead of blue. What would be the difference?

Exactly. Maybe the fans should take Daver's suggestion -

"Shut up and play" (or is it "Shut up and Show up")

doublem23
02-06-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Exactly. Maybe the fans should take Daver's suggestion -

"Shut up and play" (or is it "Shut up and Show up")

Maybe Reinsy needs a slogan too...

Shut up and care....

Kilroy
02-06-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice


:giangreco

Trust me, Kilroy, there'd be a WORLD of difference.

I loooove showing those empty blue seats!

C'mon, do you think Gian-prick-o would take any less joy in showing empty green seats? Wait, I think this is the part where someone says that empty blue seats look more empty than empty green ones....

czalgosz
02-06-2002, 05:15 PM
God, I can't wait for Spring Training to start so that we have something important to talk about...

cheeses_h_rice
02-06-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
God, I can't wait for Spring Training to start so that we have something important to talk about...

What are you talking about? I find discussing the color of plastics to be endlessly fascinating...

bjmarte
02-06-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice


What are you talking about? I find discussing the color of plastics to be endlessly fascinating...

lol, I think you forgot the teal.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 05:23 PM
They didn't have to retrofit the exterior facade with arched windows (which the original design didn't include), but they did.

They didn't have to name the ballpark Comiskey Park (which the original plan was silent over), but they did.

They didn't need to tell the architect "don't turn your back on Old Comiskey" (Reinsdorf's words to New Comiskey architect DeFlon), but they did.

Reinsdorf specifically stated he wanted New Comiskey to reflect the flavor of the original. Clearly HE THOUGHT this was important, but perhaps you don't agree.

Yet somehow, his organization created a ballpark with blue seats and blue walls. Can we at least agree it cost nothing more to tell the seat manufacturer to mold them in green plastic than it does to mold them in blue?

The only good reason the new ballpark has blue seats is through incompetence of the people overseeing its design, namely that numbskull Terry Savarise. Yes Virginia, he's still employed by the White Sox. I saw him walk past the WSI booth last weekend at SoxFest.

We got an upper deck concourse that leave fans to climb 29 rows up because of incompetence. We got incongruent "erector set" detailing in the outfield because of incompetence. And we got blue seats and blue walls because of incompetence, too. Clearly you don't believe the design of the upper deck is an insignificant detail, do you? It has costs the White Sox several million dollars in lost sales and bad p.r.

If the organization wasn't so filled with incompetence, I might buy your argument that blue seats don't matter.

Cheryl
02-06-2002, 05:32 PM
I wonder if the ballpark was built with the idea that it would be replaced in say, about 15 years. Then the blue seats/walls plus all the other stuff George mentioned really don't matter, as this is merely the transition ballpark.

czalgosz
02-06-2002, 05:44 PM
Here it is, the #1 reason that people don't want to go to Comiskey...

*drum roll*

The neighborhood.


Not the press, not the Sox marketing department (is the Cubs marketing department any better? Can you remember what the Cubs' marketing slogan was last season?), not the upper deck (the upper decks in the Ballpark at Arlington, Camden Yards, and Jacobs Field are all just as steep), not the decision to move the bulk of the Sox games to cable (although that did hurt quite a bit), and no, definitely not the color of the seats.

It's the neighborhood. Is it safer at Comiskey than is generally perceived? Yes. Is at least part of the problem due to latent racism? You bet. But in this case, perception is reality. People perceive the area around Comiskey as being crime-ridden, therefore they don't want to go there.

What did Cleveland, Baltimore, San Francisco, Seattle all do? They made the ballpark part of a general urban renewal plan. They made the neighborhoods around the ballparks nice and friendly, with lots of shops and bars within walking distance. The Cubs were the benificiary of a similar plan, except they made the neighborhood around the ballpark rather than doing them both at the same time. But the Sox just got a new stadium built and dropped it into the middle of the same neighborhood that they had before. If anything, they made it worse. They tore down the few businesses that catered to Sox fans (like McCuddy's) and built parking.

So, families don't want to go, because it's perceived as dangerous. The old rough-and-tumble working class crowd doesn't go, because the Sox have made it clear that they don't want them there. You could have the best damn marketing department in the world, and it won't change a thing. Unless the neighborhood does a 180 on its reputation, people won't go.

Kilroy
02-06-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
We got an upper deck concourse that leave fans to climb 29 rows up because of incompetence. We got incongruent "erector set" detailing in the outfield because of incompetence. And we got blue seats and blue walls because of incompetence, too. Clearly you don't believe the design of the upper deck is an insignificant detail, do you? It has costs the White Sox several million dollars in lost sales and bad p.r.

If the organization wasn't so filled with incompetence, I might buy your argument that blue seats don't matter.

Come on G, comparing the aesthetics of blue vs. green is nothing compared to the ease of access to the upper deck, and the comfort (or lack thereof) for a patron sitting there. Those two things aren't even in the same universe.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Come on G, comparing the aesthetics of blue vs. green is nothing compared to the ease of access to the upper deck, and the comfort (or lack thereof) for a patron sitting there. Those two things aren't even in the same universe.

Nobody is asking you to say blue seats aren't as aesthetically pleasing as green ones. It's not important to you, and plenty of other fans (many on this list). However, right or wrong, it IS important to many other fans.

Since the costs of putting in seats is the same whether they are blue or green, couldn't this entire argument have been avoided had Savarise been smart enough to simply make them green? I mean, nobody would be complaining that the green seats weren't blue, would they?

Changing the seat colors was stupid, and totally pointless. It was also totally in character for an organization as tone deaf to public relations as the White Sox. That's my point.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 06:30 PM
BTW, who was the incompetent ******* that made the buttons on WSI's navigation bars blue?

That PHG ought to lose his job over this one!!!!

:reinsy
"Stay loyal to me, and you have a job forever. (Assuming you didn't make too much money in the first place).

:KW
"Woo hoo!"

Paulwny
02-06-2002, 07:17 PM
I could be way off but, the seats are probably made of PVC resin which degrades in sun light. The kelly green would show this degredation much faster then the blue, a case of economics.

Jerry_Manuel
02-06-2002, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
BTW, who was the incompetent ******* that made the buttons on WSI's navigation bars blue?

That PHG ought to lose his job over this one!!!!


This "joke" went way over my head.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I could be way off but, the seats are probably made of PVC resin which degrades in sun light. The kelly green would show this degredation much faster then the blue, a case of economics.

That's the first good reason I've heard why the seat color should have been changed to blue.

I'm curious though. The Sox added several thousand "golden boxes" at Old Comiskey during the 1981-82 renovation. Those were made of green PVC plastic, too. Had Reinsdorf already decided the ballpark wasn't going to last long enough to make degradation a concern?

FarWestChicago
02-06-2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


This "joke" went way over my head. Look at the very bottom of this page.

Jerry_Manuel
02-06-2002, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Look at the very bottom of this page.

I'm not that stupid, West. :smile: (No, I didn't forget the teal.)

I didn't understand
That PHG ought to lose his job over this one!!!!

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Daver
02-06-2002, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


That's the first good reason I've heard why the seat color should have been changed to blue.

I'm curious though. The Sox added several thousand "golden boxes" at Old Comiskey during the 1981-82 renovation. Those were made of green PVC plastic, too. Had Reinsdorf already decided the ballpark wasn't going to last long enough to make degradation a concern?

PHG,the seats could be the color of a baboons ass and I wouldn't care,it is not the color of the seats that matter to me.I can see your point on the issue,but I still think that it should have never been named New Comiskey in the first place,it should have been called Veeck Feild,in honour of a man that brought a new flair to promoting the game,not re-named after a tyrant of an owner.


BTW the T-shirt is awesome,got it today.

Paulwny
02-06-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


That's the first good reason I've heard why the seat color should have been changed to blue.

I'm curious though. The Sox added several thousand "golden boxes" at Old Comiskey during the 1981-82 renovation. Those were made of green PVC plastic, too. Had Reinsdorf already decided the ballpark wasn't going to last long enough to make degradation a concern?

With the addition of uv absorbers etc. the seats would probably not show color fading for 10- 15 yrs. He probably had a new stadium in the back of his mind.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by daver
BTW the T-shirt is awesome,got it today. .

Damn, that was fast. The first batch of shipments were sent just yesterday. I guess you won't be needing that delivery confirmation number I was going to send you!

czalgosz
02-06-2002, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by daver


I still think that it should have never been named New Comiskey in the first place,it should have been called Veeck Feild,in honour of a man that brought a new flair to promoting the game,not re-named after a tyrant of an owner.


I have to strongly disagree with you on that one. Veeck destroyed the farm system and got rid of a lot of young prospects both times he bought the team, in exchange for fading veterans. He may have been a marketing genius, but he didn't care if the team won or not.

And he was a Cub fan, anyway. That was the team he really wanted in Chicago.

Daver
02-06-2002, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I have to strongly disagree with you on that one. Veeck destroyed the farm system and got rid of a lot of young prospects both times he bought the team, in exchange for fading veterans. He may have been a marketing genius, but he didn't care if the team won or not.

And he was a Cub fan, anyway. That was the team he really wanted in Chicago.

Czal,I am well aware of what Veeck did to the White Sox,but he did bring an entire new way of thinking to promoting the game of baseball to the game,and not just with the Sox.Does the name Eddie Guiddell ring a bell?
The White Sox could have Honoured what Veeck did for the GAME of baseball as a whole,not what he did with the White Sox.Veeck was an innovator that brought a new veiw to the entire sport.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I have to strongly disagree with you on that one. Veeck destroyed the farm system and got rid of a lot of young prospects both times he bought the team, in exchange for fading veterans. He may have been a marketing genius, but he didn't care if the team won or not.

And he was a Cub fan, anyway. That was the team he really wanted in Chicago.

True. Oh, so very true. Veeck's daddy ran the Chicago Cubs for William Wrigley. The only reason he ever left the family business was because he didn't have the cash, or the opportunity, to buy the Flubbies. His real skills were promotion and public relations, not baseball operations. The Sox reaped the benefit, and paid the price, for both.

IMO, the ballpark shouldn't be named for any of the lousy owners who have cursed the franchise. To my ears, "White Sox Park" has a nice ring to it.

czalgosz
02-06-2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by daver


Czal,I am well aware of what Veeck did to the White Sox,but he did bring an entire new way of thinking to promoting the game of baseball to the game,and not just with the Sox.Does the name Eddie Guiddell ring a bell?
The White Sox could have Honoured what Veeck did for the GAME of baseball as a whole,not what he did with the White Sox.Veeck was an innovator that brought a new veiw to the entire sport.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. He is in the Hall of Fame - for me, that's enough in terms of honors for what he did for baseball.

He was an innovator, and he was great for the sport as a whole. But he prevented the White Sox from getting to at least one World Series (Can you imagine Johnny Callison on all those great pitching teams of the '60s?) - and I guess I'm too selfish to let that go.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-06-2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. He is in the Hall of Fame - for me, that's enough in terms of honors for what he did for baseball.

He was an innovator, and he was great for the sport as a whole. But he prevented the White Sox from getting to at least one World Series (Can you imagine Johnny Callison on all those great pitching teams of the '60s?) - and I guess I'm too selfish to let that go.

Let's not forget he was actively trying to sell the Sox to Denver in 1979 and early 1980, too. Bowie Kuhn called Veeck the original flim-flam man for talking about his love of the fans while working behind the scenes to sell-off their team. For once, Bowie and I agree.

Veeck deserves to be in the HOF for the Gaedel trick alone. The fact all the other owners hated him proves there must have been something good about him. Should the Sox name the ballpark for him? IMO, no.

Daver
02-06-2002, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I can live with that.


But then again what the hell do I know? ©

moochpuppy
02-07-2002, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Give me one good reason the seats should have been blue? The cost of installing green ones was exactly the same. Furthermore, Comiskey Park featured kelly green seats for 15 years prior to its destruction in 1991. While some seats were powder blue (and others red) in the 1960's and early-70's, all of the seats were kelly green for several decades prior to that--including the 1959 league championship season.

More than that, early renderings of New Comiskey showed all the seats (and the outfield wall) in green. Why was this changed? We shouldn't even be discussing this.

Chalk it up to more front office incompetence by the Chicago White Sox. Are any of us really that surprised?

Really, can we drop this already. We can argue this till we're "blue" in the face but it doesn't change the fact that the seats are blue and will remain blue until further notice.

I'd take blue grass for one World Championship.

voodoochile
02-07-2002, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


True. Oh, so very true. Veeck's daddy ran the Chicago Cubs for William Wrigley. The only reason he ever left the family business was because he didn't have the cash, or the opportunity, to buy the Flubbies. His real skills were promotion and public relations, not baseball operations. The Sox reaped the benefit, and paid the price, for both.

IMO, the ballpark shouldn't be named for any of the lousy owners who have cursed the franchise. To my ears, "White Sox Park" has a nice ring to it.

So long as they don't call it Enron Field or Wrigley South, I don't care WHAT they name it. Sell the rights, take the money. Buy the fans a championship or two...