PDA

View Full Version : Marte and Viz doing good this year


chaerulez
06-06-2006, 02:37 PM
People seemed to ride these two a lot last year. The truth was, Viz only had a handful of bad games, they just seemed to happen in close games, so they got magnified. He also had that one game in where Ozzie had to keep him in because there was no one else to go to and Viz ended up being tagged for 5-6 runs. Marte just lost a little control for a few weeks, but overall I wouldn't say he had a bad year.

As we speak so far for the season Damaso has a 2.70 ERA with 25 K's and 8 BB's in 20 IP. Vizcaino is doing just as well with a 2.54 ERA and 30 K's and 11 BB's in 28 1/3 IP. Now this isn't a cry for them back, as I believe that having Vazquez and Mackowiak is more important to the team. Just throwing it out there that these two aren't as bad as everyone made it out to be, and they've also had pretty decent careers, so it shouldn't even be a surprise that they are having success this year.

kittle42
06-06-2006, 02:39 PM
Good for them.

oeo
06-06-2006, 02:44 PM
People seemed to ride these two a lot last year. The truth was, Viz only had a handful of bad games, they just seemed to happen in close games, so they got magnified. He also had that one game in where Ozzie had to keep him in because there was no one else to go to and Viz ended up being tagged for 5-6 runs. Marte just lost a little control for a few weeks, but overall I wouldn't say he had a bad year.

As we speak so far for the season Damaso has a 2.70 ERA with 25 K's and 8 BB's in 20 IP. Vizcaino is doing just as well with a 2.54 ERA and 30 K's and 11 BB's in 28 1/3 IP. Now this isn't a cry for them back, as I believe that having Vazquez and Mackowiak is more important to the team. Just throwing it out there that these two aren't as bad as everyone made it out to be, and they've also had pretty decent careers, so it shouldn't even be a surprise that they are having success this year.
I never had a problem with Vizcaino, he was great last year. Marte, OTOH, was awful at times...actually a lot of times. Just think of Game 3 of the ALDS. But he did come through in World Series Game 3, with the victory, and would have closed out the game if it wasn't for a Uribe error.

Anyway, Marte is gone for a big reason...he wasn't wanted here. I'm pretty sure Ozzie didn't think very kindly of him, as well as the clubhouse in general. I don't think he would ever put those numbers up here, but good for him, I hope he keeps it going.

The Wimperoo
06-06-2006, 02:48 PM
It's called the National League. It sucks

mcfish
06-06-2006, 02:49 PM
People seemed to ride these two a lot last year. The truth was, Viz only had a handful of bad games, they just seemed to happen in close games, so they got magnified. He also had that one game in where Ozzie had to keep him in because there was no one else to go to and Viz ended up being tagged for 5-6 runs. Marte just lost a little control for a few weeks, but overall I wouldn't say he had a bad year.

As we speak so far for the season Damaso has a 2.70 ERA with 25 K's and 8 BB's in 20 IP. Vizcaino is doing just as well with a 2.54 ERA and 30 K's and 11 BB's in 28 1/3 IP. Now this isn't a cry for them back, as I believe that having Vazquez and Mackowiak is more important to the team. Just throwing it out there that these two aren't as bad as everyone made it out to be, and they've also had pretty decent careers, so it shouldn't even be a surprise that they are having success this year.About Viz, you are correct. About Marte I would disagree. I would say that a little control for a few weeks was more like for the whole season. I remember him loading the bases with walks in games in May/June, and we all remember the Boston series.

Either way, more power to the both of them. I don't think anyone wants to see them fail, some of us just wanted one or both of them succeed or fail elsewhere.

Another example - Koch was blamed by many for 2004, yet he was gone by early June.

Frater Perdurabo
06-06-2006, 02:51 PM
It's called the National League. It sucks

Exactly. Both pitchers would have ERAs at least one full point higher, if not nearly two full points, if they pitched in the AL this year. The AL is that much better than the NL in 2006.

salty99
06-06-2006, 02:58 PM
I KNOW let's trade back Mackowiak for Marte and then we can have Joe Borchard patrolling center!

QCIASOXFAN
06-06-2006, 02:58 PM
Cant look back now. I would have kept Cotts and Cliff over Mr.Dumasso Marte and Viz to.

samram
06-06-2006, 03:03 PM
It's called the National League. It sucks

Yep. Plus, pitching in Pittsburgh, where there's no pressure to finish above fifth, is probably a very comfortable environment for Damaso.

TDog
06-06-2006, 03:15 PM
Most relievers have inconsistent careers. They get traded when they wear out their welcome. Sometimes they do better in their new surroundings. The White Sox actually got good value in return for these guys, so I wouldn't complain.

The fact that both of them are doing better than Politte isn't attributable to the differences in leagues. It's an illustration of how difficult it is to build a strong bullpen when guys can look like different pitchers from year to year.

jongarlandlover
06-06-2006, 04:56 PM
It's called the National League. It sucks

that's exactly what i was thinking.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-06-2006, 05:25 PM
I hated to see Viz and his rubber arm go. Marte, never want to see him in a Sox uniform again under any circumstance. I have a feeling Ozzie would agree 100%.

hold2dibber
06-06-2006, 06:01 PM
Most relievers have inconsistent careers. They get traded when they wear out their welcome. Sometimes they do better in their new surroundings. The White Sox actually got good value in return for these guys, so I wouldn't complain.

The fact that both of them are doing better than Politte isn't attributable to the differences in leagues. It's an illustration of how difficult it is to build a strong bullpen when guys can look like different pitchers from year to year.

You're dead on. I think one of the hardest things for any GM to do is to build a consistently successful bullpen, in large part because so many relievers are so remarkably inconsistent from year-to-year. There are legions of relievers out there who have been up-and-down throughout their careers. Marte and Politte are great examples of this phenomenon.

JB98
06-06-2006, 06:40 PM
I hated to see Viz and his rubber arm go. Marte, never want to see him in a Sox uniform again under any circumstance. I have a feeling Ozzie would agree 100%.

Bingo. Viz was an underappreciated member of the 2005 team. We miss him. Marte, not so much. I don't think the left-handers are the problem for the current bullpen.

BainesHOF
06-07-2006, 02:52 AM
Viz was an underappreciated member of the 2005 team. We miss him.

I agree.

IlliniSox4Life
06-07-2006, 03:42 AM
I'm glad to see any member of the 2005 Sox doing well. They all had at least a small part in bringing this city its' first World Series in 88 years. For that, I will always be grateful


That said, get this jackass Politte out of here! This guy couldn't hit the broadside of a barn!

Wsoxmike59
06-07-2006, 07:26 AM
I loved Marte and his first three years in Chicago he was lights out out of the pen.

He held opponents to batting averages of .204 -.185-.217 his first three years here! He got the job done.

It's unfortunate he had a down year in 2005 under Ozzie and I always felt it was a "tired arm" period for him for all the use he got in 2002-2003-2004.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6261/

I think we're seeing the tired arm effects on Cliff Politte and Neal Cotts this year for getting a little extended last season in 2005.

The reason it's hard to repeat in the big leagues is you never know how the pitchers are going to bounce back after a winning season when you go deep in to the playoffs. They log more innings (stressful ones at that) and extend themselves to the limit when they get that deep in to the playoffs.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Sox chances this year. I remember all to well the 1984 and 2001 seasons when our pitchers just couldn't duplicate the previous season's performance.

PatK
06-07-2006, 11:00 AM
I was a little upset to see Viz go. He got a bad rap and people would point to his numbers, failing to realize that a couple of times he was in there as a sacrificial lamb.

Marte as well. People forget how good he did for the three years prior to last season and how often he pitched. He wasn't called "Everday Marte" for nothing.

D. TODD
06-07-2006, 11:29 AM
Viz has been a great set-up man for 'zona. He is among the leaders in holds. I like both guys ( even with Marte's struggles last year) and I wish them well. They both would help us immensely this year, but the moves we made were well worth it. You can't get quality without giving up some talent as well.

chaerulez
06-07-2006, 12:17 PM
Cant look back now. I would have kept Cotts and Cliff over Mr.Dumasso Marte and Viz to.

Wow, Dumasso Marte, I wish I had your cleverness.

Anyways, the problem with relievers is that they have to be more consistent than starters. If a starter has three good outings and one bad outing their ERA will probably still be in the 3-4 range. If that happens to a reliever, their ERA could go high as 5-6. Just look at McCarthy, only about a quarter of his outings have been bad, yet his ERA is 5.01. Then look at Buehrle, who fits around that percentage, and his ERA is 3.31. Like I said, the trades we made that got rid of Viz and Marte were neccessary for the team. My point is these two guys aren't bad relievers.

ewokpelts
06-07-2006, 12:43 PM
People seemed to ride these two a lot last year. The truth was, Viz only had a handful of bad games, they just seemed to happen in close games, so they got magnified. He also had that one game in where Ozzie had to keep him in because there was no one else to go to and Viz ended up being tagged for 5-6 runs. Marte just lost a little control for a few weeks, but overall I wouldn't say he had a bad year.

As we speak so far for the season Damaso has a 2.70 ERA with 25 K's and 8 BB's in 20 IP. Vizcaino is doing just as well with a 2.54 ERA and 30 K's and 11 BB's in 28 1/3 IP. Now this isn't a cry for them back, as I believe that having Vazquez and Mackowiak is more important to the team. Just throwing it out there that these two aren't as bad as everyone made it out to be, and they've also had pretty decent careers, so it shouldn't even be a surprise that they are having success this year.so?

California Sox
06-07-2006, 07:01 PM
Viz has been a great set-up man for 'zona. He is among the leaders in holds. I like both guys ( even with Marte's struggles last year) and I wish them well. They both would help us immensely this year, but the moves we made were well worth it. You can't get quality without giving up some talent as well.

I agree. But the question is "How quality is Vazquez?" I was against the deal at the time and I don't feel any better about it now. But no use crying over spilled milk, I guess.