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voodoochile
06-03-2006, 01:08 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/chi-0606030141jun03,1,873709.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

Ozzie pretty much says McCarthy has to be a reliever and if he only wants to start, he can go to AAA.

McCarthy says he has no problem being a reliever and feels like it is a challange for him. Talks a bit about defining roles, but admits that things aren't settled in the pen enough to do so at the moment.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-03-2006, 01:49 PM
Ozzie is proving to be smarter than I ever realized. He notes the fundamental difference between playing in the major leagues on a ballclub like the White Sox with championship aspirations versus the minor leagues. The Sox are here for RESULTS, not player development.

Ozzie says either McCarthy starts getting out major league hitters when called on to do so, or he'll have plenty of time to figure it out down in Charlotte? Dad gum, right!

This isn't the Florida Marlins, a team masquerading as major league. If the Sox were just going through the motions of fielding a winner, they should have kept Frank Thomas and passed on Jim Thome. This club is built to win. Ozzie knows it. Good for him.

voodoochile
06-03-2006, 02:25 PM
Ozzie is proving to be smarter than I ever realized. He notes the fundamental difference between playing in the major leagues on a ballclub like the White Sox with championship aspirations versus the minor leagues. The Sox are here for RESULTS, not player development.

Ozzie says either McCarthy starts getting out major league hitters when called on to do so, or he'll have plenty of time to figure it out down in Charlotte? Dad gum, right!

This isn't the Florida Marlins, a team masquerading as major league. If the Sox were just going through the motions of fielding a winner, they should have kept Frank Thomas and passed on Jim Thome. This club is built to win. Ozzie knows it. Good for him.

Definitely. One more reason that Ozzie is a great manager.

I did think McCarthy said the right things in this interview too. He didn't try to deflect blame or demand to be a starter, he gave the appropriate cliche answers and pretty much promised to keep working until he gets it right and to do right by his teammates.

ewokpelts
06-03-2006, 02:38 PM
This is encouraging.....
now, can someone tell ozzie that jenks is horrible when he inherits runners? there was no reason to pull b.mac that early friday, especially when you faced the prospect of extra innings.

Gene

Ol' No. 2
06-03-2006, 02:49 PM
This is encouraging.....
now, can someone tell ozzie that jenks is horrible when he inherits runners? there was no reason to pull b.mac that early friday, especially when you faced the prospect of extra innings.

GeneIf Jenks can't pitch when he inherits runners, he can go back to AAA, too. This is the major leagues. No lame excuses allowed.

Corlose 15
06-03-2006, 02:56 PM
If Jenks can't pitch when he inherits runners, he can go back to AAA, too. This is the major leagues. No lame excuses allowed.

Exactly, one of the major roles of the bullpen is to strand runners left by the pitcher before them. If they can't get outs with runners on base they might as well get the hell out of dodge. This BP has been awful at inheriting runners so far.

oeo
06-03-2006, 03:00 PM
This is encouraging.....
now, can someone tell ozzie that jenks is horrible when he inherits runners? there was no reason to pull b.mac that early friday, especially when you faced the prospect of extra innings.

Gene

In Jenks defense, that ball should have been caught by Mackowiak.

Ol' No. 2
06-03-2006, 03:02 PM
In Jenks defense, that ball should have been caught by Mackowiak.Sure. Maybe if Anderson had been playing last weekend in Toronto he could have caught that one Glaus hit into orbit, too.

:bong:

Chips
06-03-2006, 03:04 PM
In Jenks defense, that ball should have been caught by Mackowiak.

Not a chance in hell.

santo=dorf
06-03-2006, 03:07 PM
This is encouraging.....
now, can someone tell ozzie that jenks is horrible when he inherits runners? there was no reason to pull b.mac that early friday, especially when you faced the prospect of extra innings.

Gene
:rolleyes:
Jenks has stranded 11 of 15 of the inherited runners. 73%
Rivera: 4/8
Billy Wagner: 1/2
Jason Isringhausen: 5/10

Way to do your research.

ewokpelts
06-03-2006, 03:11 PM
and the ones he DIDNT strand? all scored....and we lost at least two games....

the only stat that matters is W/L...and becuase of jenks, there's two more L's than W's

Gene

oeo
06-03-2006, 03:18 PM
Not a chance in hell.
Even he could have caught if, if he would have ran hard all the way. Instead he slowed down and came to a complete stop just to watch the ball fall right in front of him. Brian would have had that no problem, Mackowiak could have gotten there and made what would have looked like a great catch.

santo=dorf
06-03-2006, 03:25 PM
and the ones he DIDNT strand? all scored....and we lost at least two games....

:?:
What don't you get? All relievers allow inherited runners to score. 73% is very good. FAR from "horrible" like you described.

4 runners....out of 15.

the only stat that matters is W/L...and becuase of jenks, there's two more L's than W's

Gene
Great. Here we go again with this quote.
W/L are most meaningful to the team, not an individual. It's no surprise we're not seeing the posters after Sunday's game patting Jon on the back for getting the win regardless how he pitched bash Jon after last night's preformance for not winning the game.

Is it Jenks fault that runner was on base in the first place? I thought B.M.A.C walked him???
Brandon was charged with the loss last night, not Jenks. Why blame Bobby for everything? :?:

Oh yeah, and how many games has Jenks prevented a "W" from an "L?"

Ol' No. 2
06-03-2006, 03:32 PM
Even he could have caught if, if he would have ran hard all the way. Instead he slowed down and came to a complete stop just to watch the ball fall right in front of him. Brian would have had that no problem, Mackowiak could have gotten there and made what would have looked like a great catch.Umm...the ball Mathews hit was a line shot off the outfield wall. Willie Mays wouldn't have caught that.

SOXSINCE'70
06-03-2006, 03:42 PM
Ozzie says either McCarthy starts getting out major league hitters when called on to do so, or he'll have plenty of time to figure it out down in Charlotte? Dad gum, right!

:hawk

"I looooove it when you analyse".:cool: No,honestly,Guillen is asking nothing unusual
here.This is what the A's did with Dan Haren (now a starter) a few years back.
The Cards are doing the same thing with Adam Wainwright (sp??).He's a reliever
who will start for the Cards in 2007.

The Dude
06-03-2006, 04:07 PM
If Jenks can't pitch when he inherits runners, he can go back to AAA, too. This is the major leagues. No lame excuses allowed.

Yeah but he just pitches much better when he starts an inning by himself and should only be used TO START the 9th and not come in when Cotts has already walked the first batter on 4 pitches.

The Dude
06-03-2006, 04:08 PM
and the ones he DIDNT strand? all scored....and we lost at least two games....

the only stat that matters is W/L...and becuase of jenks, there's two more L's than W's

Gene

So why not just avoid the whole situation by having him start the 9th by himself????

Sox-o-matic
06-03-2006, 04:16 PM
If Jenks can't pitch when he inherits runners, he can go back to AAA, too. This is the major leagues. No lame excuses allowed.

The only problem with sending someone down to AAA is that we have to call up someone from AAA.

Chips
06-03-2006, 04:18 PM
The only problem with sending someone down to AAA is that we have to call up someone from AAA.
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

That's in a hitters park.

TaylorStSox
06-03-2006, 04:29 PM
Umm...the ball Mathews hit was a line shot off the outfield wall. Willie Mays wouldn't have caught that.

That's just plain wrong. Mack took a horrible route and got a worse jump. Alot of good CF's catch that ball. It was hit hard, but it was certainly a ball that could have been caught.

champagne030
06-03-2006, 04:54 PM
That's just plain wrong. Mack took a horrible route and got a worse jump. Alot of good CF's catch that ball. It was hit hard, but it was certainly a ball that could have been caught.

Yes, it could have and BA would've caught the ball unless he was tackled by Johnny Greengrass.

ewokpelts
06-03-2006, 11:05 PM
:?:
What don't you get? All relievers allow inherited runners to score. 73% is very good. FAR from "horrible" like you described.

4 runners....out of 15.


Great. Here we go again with this quote.
W/L are most meaningful to the team, not an individual. It's no surprise we're not seeing the posters after Sunday's game patting Jon on the back for getting the win regardless how he pitched bash Jon after last night's preformance for not winning the game.

Is it Jenks fault that runner was on base in the first place? I thought B.M.A.C walked him???
Brandon was charged with the loss last night, not Jenks. Why blame Bobby for everything? :?:

Oh yeah, and how many games has Jenks prevented a "W" from an "L?"jenks job is to keep that runner stranded

ewokpelts
06-03-2006, 11:07 PM
So why not just avoid the whole situation by having him start the 9th by himself????excellent point

SweetnesSox
06-03-2006, 11:08 PM
Yes, it could have and BA would've caught the ball unless he was tackled by Johnny Greengrass.

totally. maybe I'm just spoiled by good centerfield play but mack looks lost out there.

santo=dorf
06-03-2006, 11:14 PM
Jenks now 4/18 in allowing inherited runners to score.
Just Terrible

Evman5
06-03-2006, 11:24 PM
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

That's in a hitters park.


Against Minor League competition

Ol' No. 2
06-03-2006, 11:35 PM
Yeah but he just pitches much better when he starts an inning by himself and should only be used TO START the 9th and not come in when Cotts has already walked the first batter on 4 pitches.Yeah. Let's take the most consistent pitcher and limit him to the easiest possible situations. Heaven forbid we ask him to pitch when we need him. We can always use Politte for those difficult situations.:rolleyes:

FedEx227
06-03-2006, 11:41 PM
Yeah. Let's take the most consistent pitcher and limit him to the easiest possible situations. Heaven forbid we ask him to pitch when we need him. We can always use Politte for those difficult situations.:rolleyes:

Exactly. Mariano Rivera has made a career of cleaning up the White Sox messes and pitching 2 even 3 innings if necessary.

Jenks is a major league pitcher, one who came up through the minors as a starter, there shouldn't be an excuse about him not being able to pitch with inherited runners.

Ol' No. 2
06-04-2006, 12:18 AM
That's just plain wrong. Mack took a horrible route and got a worse jump. Alot of good CF's catch that ball. It was hit hard, but it was certainly a ball that could have been caught.You know, I'm wondering why the Sox are playing three outfielders. Just put those other two guys where they'd be more useful. Anderson can get to anything hit out of the infield anyway.

Scottiehaswheels
06-04-2006, 12:46 AM
Exactly. Mariano Rivera has made a career of cleaning up the White Sox messes and pitching 2 even 3 innings if necessary.
We got the Sandman? Awesome job KW!

voodoochile
06-04-2006, 01:35 AM
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

That's in a hitters park.

Against AAA hitters. Please don't even try to go there.

voodoochile
06-04-2006, 01:36 AM
jenks job is to keep that runner stranded

And 73% of the time he succeeds. Why are you expecting perfection? Has any pitcher in the history of the game ever been perfect?

Gene, this is a reach even for your tinfoil wearing over the top complaining butt...

Nellie_Fox
06-04-2006, 02:23 AM
This is encouraging.....
now, can someone tell ozzie that jenks is horrible when he inherits runners? there was no reason to pull b.mac that early friday, especially when you faced the prospect of extra innings.

GeneDoes this count as an avoidance of the language filters?:cool:

Frontman
06-04-2006, 03:33 AM
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

That's in a hitters park.

Against batters who would crap their pants when facing off against major league pitchers who throw anything like over 95 miles an hour.....

;)

Front

Frontman
06-04-2006, 03:34 AM
Originally Posted by Chips
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

That's in a hitters park.




Against AAA hitters. Please don't even try to go there.

Um, sorry about piling on there Chips?

Front

ewokpelts
06-04-2006, 03:33 PM
And 73% of the time he succeeds. Why are you expecting perfection? Has any pitcher in the history of the game ever been perfect?

Gene, this is a reach even for your tinfoil wearing over the top complaining butt...
Shouldnt one expect perfection from the CLOSER?
Gene

Frontman
06-04-2006, 06:09 PM
Shouldnt one expect perfection from the CLOSER?
Gene

No. Because if there was a "perfect" closer, there would be

A: no such thing as a blown save

B: Whichever team has a perfect closer would dominate the sport until that said closer no longer had the goods.

Front

ilsox7
06-04-2006, 06:13 PM
Shouldnt one expect perfection from the CLOSER?
Gene

Go search MLB history and find a perfect closer. You might be gone a while.

santo=dorf
06-04-2006, 09:12 PM
Go search MLB history and find a perfect closer. You might be gone a while.
Eric Gagne in 2003 was one, and he won the Cy Young.

Gene is really grasping for straws thinking a closer should NEVER allow an inherited runner to score or blow a game.

pearso66
06-04-2006, 09:24 PM
Eric Gagne in 2003 was one, and he won the Cy Young.

Gene is really grasping for straws thinking a closer should NEVER allow an inherited runner to score or blow a game.

Gagne was a very good closer that year. But I'm sure he allowed some inherited runners to score, if he had many at all. I don't know, I didn't do the research, I'm just talking out of my butt.

I do remember "Everyday" Eddie Guardado up in Minny a few years ago, almost never coming into an inning with a guy on base. I think he had like 5-10 inherited runners all season, if that.

santo=dorf
06-04-2006, 09:33 PM
Gagne was a very good closer that year. But I'm sure he allowed some inherited runners to score, if he had many at all. I don't know, I didn't do the research, I'm just talking out of my butt.

I do remember "Everyday" Eddie Guardado up in Minny a few years ago, almost never coming into an inning with a guy on base. I think he had like 5-10 inherited runners all season, if that.
No. He was 0/10 in 2003 and 0/18 in 2004. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4181

Relievers like that win Cy Youngs, but apparently to one, they grow on trees and 99% of the closers in the history of baseball have FAILED.


:rolleyes:

pearso66
06-04-2006, 09:35 PM
No. He was 0/10 in 2003 and 0/18 in 2004. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4181

Relievers like that win Cy Youngs, but apparently to one, they grow on trees and 99% of the closers in the history of baseball have FAILED.


:rolleyes:

I was unaware, and I knew my lack or research would bite me in the butt. But like many on here said, as well as yourself, that is a rarity. Although as you mentioned, he was 0/10 in 2003, Bobby has already surpassed 10 inherited runners, and he was 0/18 in 2004, and Bobby is approaching that number fast. I can't imagine if Gagne would have had 30 or so inherited runners in 1 season, that every one of them would have been left stranded. Unfortunately, it is looking as though we will never know as Gagne hasn't been healthy since 2004.

ilsox7
06-04-2006, 09:40 PM
Wasn't there anotehr stat that Gagne didn't have a save of more than 3 outs for a very long time? All I know is that Jenks has been solid if not spectacular this year. And he's seemed to get better as the 2 months of the season has gone by. He is probably the last guy on the staff that people should be complaining about. Then again, some folks will complain if you hand them a $50 bill b/c they wanted a $100 bill.

FedEx227
06-04-2006, 10:35 PM
We got the Sandman? Awesome job KW!

Ouch big typo. OR IS IT!? No, it is.

voodoochile
06-05-2006, 12:16 AM
Shouldnt one expect perfection from the CLOSER?
Gene

No and honestly it's simply over the top ridiculous for you even to imply it, Gene.

I mean honestly, the closest ever to perfection on a season were Gagne (who actually did it) and Eckersley (who may have had the most dominant relief performance ever for the A's in the late 80's/early 90's and they didn't really do it either.

Jenks has already blown a save this season... :o: back up the truck...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::?:

ewokpelts
06-05-2006, 06:54 PM
Eric Gagne in 2003 was one, and he won the Cy Young.

Gene is really grasping for straws thinking a closer should NEVER allow an inherited runner to score or blow a game.i dont expect jenks to go "el duque" when he gets inherited runner, but I do expect him to not suck...which he does when he has inherited runners....

ilsox7
06-05-2006, 07:11 PM
i dont expect jenks to go "el duque" when he gets inherited runner, but I do expect him to not suck...which he does when he has inherited runners....

You're crazy if you think he sucks. Being tied for 15th in the league is far from sucking. (http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/getleaders.asp?rank=143&Submit=Go)