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View Full Version : *Official* - Anderson would have had it - Rangers beat Sox 4-3


cws05champ
06-02-2006, 10:31 PM
Seriously...Can they?

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2006, 10:32 PM
Anderson would have caught the hit on the fly that scored the game-winning run.

I'm not blaming Mackowiak. He is what he is - not as good as Anderson in center field.

This demonstrates why defense is important, especially when your best run producer - Thome - is not in the lineup.

cleanwsox
06-02-2006, 10:32 PM
Ughh...... look out below!


:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

SoxFan78
06-02-2006, 10:32 PM
Right now, the answer is no.

kittle42
06-02-2006, 10:33 PM
Thanks, Sox. This is the first time this season I have been completely pissed off.

ondafarm
06-02-2006, 10:33 PM
Welcome to the butt end of the Tigers losing streak.

Chisox1500
06-02-2006, 10:33 PM
Careful to criticize anyone. You'll be called a darkcloud.

russ99
06-02-2006, 10:34 PM
That one REALLY hurt. These guys better get their heads out of their asses and quick.

At least it's nowhere near as bad as Cubs-Braves last Friday :D:

kittle42
06-02-2006, 10:35 PM
That one REALLY hurt. These guys better get their heads out of their asses and quick.

At least it's nowhere near as bad as Cubs-Braves last Friday :D:
If another person mentions the ****ing Cubs like it makes anything better, I'm gonna puke.

SoxFan78
06-02-2006, 10:35 PM
White Sox walked 3 tonight. All of them scored.

Last year, 1 run lead going to the bullpen, fairly confident Sox would get the W.

This year, 1 run lead going to the bullpen, fairly confident bullpen will **** it up.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2006, 10:36 PM
Today's theme: horrible

Horrible execution by Uribe
Horrible game all around for Podsednik - hurt the team offensively and defensively
Horrible defense by Mackowiak
Horrible strikezone by umpire

Oh, and I am fuming at Iguchi. He knew how horrible the strikezone had been all day. You can't take two ****ing 2 strike pitches right off the plate when the zone is that bad.

DickAllen72
06-02-2006, 10:36 PM
As soon as Ozzie put Mack in to hit for BA I told my daughter, "This is a bad move because we're going to need Anderson's defense in the ninth." I hate being right all the time.

Good game by Gload. This is why he is a valuable member of this team.

ja1022
06-02-2006, 10:36 PM
Ummmm.....well, uhhhh....no. No, they can't. This too shall pass.

JB98
06-02-2006, 10:36 PM
I'm ****ing seething right now. Just seething.

cleanwsox
06-02-2006, 10:36 PM
Seriously...Can they?


They seem to be good to me when we are up by 5+ runs or down by a lot. 1-3 run difference and they all scare me.

cws05champ
06-02-2006, 10:37 PM
I dropped more than usual F-bomb's watching the game tonight...I can't beleive we let that one get away. We have to take two of three in this series going into next weeks important stretch.:angry:

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2006, 10:37 PM
Indeed, the bullpen was not good tonight. Nelson is not getting the job done. I'll give Jenks a pass since Anderson would have caught the deep fly off of Matthews' bat.

Brian26
06-02-2006, 10:38 PM
I'm not blaming Mackowiak. He is what he is - not as good as Anderson in center field.

This demonstrates why defense is important, especially when your best run producer - Thome - is not in the lineup.

It's a bit disconcerting that Ozzie is doing the exact opposite of what he did last year and what he has stressed since he's been here- the importance of defense. Logic indicates that BA should be in there during the late innings to solidify the defense.

This was an annoying game.

Cat Thief
06-02-2006, 10:38 PM
Jeff Nelson is not going to work out.

whitesoxfan1986
06-02-2006, 10:39 PM
This really ****ing sucks. it seems like the Sox are finding a way to lose every game this week. The Sox are playing like **** right now. **** 4 game losing streaks.

billyvsox
06-02-2006, 10:39 PM
Same old story - Guys playing OUT OF POSITION

McCarthy is NOT a reliever (he needs to be starting at AAA)

Mackowiak is NOT even close to to being a center fielder. (Anderson would have had it in his back pocket).

If you're going to start Anderson in the game you can not pinch hit for him and lose his defense in a one-run game.

Has Ozzie and everyone else forgotten how we won last year....doing the little things, pitching and DEFENSE.

I'm watching the 2004,2003,2002 team all over again.

kwolf68
06-02-2006, 10:40 PM
Its the bullpen people. Texas' bullpen mowed right through our formidable lineup, but our bullpen, much like previous games, was handed a lead and promptly blew it.

Our offense also missed many chances tonight as well...We had that kid on the ropes in the 4th inning and while the bottom of the order at least didn't strike out they let that kid off the mat with week little ground balls....We should have chased that pitcher in the 4th...Pods average is also failing like a rock as well...if he doesnt get on we have more troubles.

Brian26
06-02-2006, 10:40 PM
Oh, and I am fuming at Iguchi. He knew how horrible the strikezone had been all day. You can't take two ****ing 2 strike pitches right off the plate when the zone is that bad.

Easier said than done. What kind of mental handcuffing is that? It's hard enough to protect the plate, but now you're making him protect the plate another 4 inches on each side and looking high. Iguchi was just trying to get on base to get something going. I can't fault him because the ump blew the call.

DickAllen72
06-02-2006, 10:40 PM
Jeff Nelson is not going to work out.

Sadly, this is true. As much as I want him to work out, he is just a one pitch pitcher. Slider, slider, slider, slider......

russ99
06-02-2006, 10:41 PM
This slapdash bullpen is obviously not going to work. Kenny needs to do something to make up for not doing anything in the offseason. Send McCarthy back to AAA to start, while he's at it to get the kid some confidence. I have a feeling we're gonna need him before the year is up.

unclegary
06-02-2006, 10:41 PM
I predict that the Sox are going to fall seven or eight behind the Tigers and then make a huge August / September surge and win the division by five. We are all spoiled by last years magical season. They have a good team and this too will pass.

JB98
06-02-2006, 10:41 PM
Same old story - Guys playing OUT OF POSITION

McCarthy is NOT a reliever (he needs to be starting at AAA)

Mackowiak is NOT even close to to being a center fielder. (Anderson would have had it in his back pocket).

If you're going to start Anderson in the game you can not pinch hit for him and lose his defense in a one-run game.

Has Ozzie and everyone else forgotten how we won last year....doing the little things, pitching and DEFENSE.

I'm watching the 2004,2003,2002 team all over again.

Don't forget the lack of execution when Gload was on second with nobody out. This was an "other 42" loss. Bad fundamentals, walks, bad defense cost in close games.

Brian26
06-02-2006, 10:41 PM
McCarthy is NOT a reliever (he needs to be starting at AAA)

McCarthy looked fine tonight. Actually, he looked pretty sharp. We didn't lose the game because of him.

Tragg
06-02-2006, 10:42 PM
I can't believe we take out a defensive player in a tie game. Why? It's not like RM is a very good hitter himself.

Walks killed us - they scored 3 on walks.
Our lack of walking also kills us. Our hit/run ratio hasn't been the best lately, unless we hit homers; tonight, it was awful.

billyvsox
06-02-2006, 10:42 PM
As soon as Ozzie put Mack in to hit for BA I told my daughter, "This is a bad move because we're going to need Anderson's defense in the ninth." I hate being right all the time.

Good game by Gload. This is why he is a valuable member of this team.


I said the same thing to my wife at the time. She told me shut up!!

PeteWard
06-02-2006, 10:42 PM
Looks like the entire Central may lose tonight. If anyone is watching the standings this early (I am, but just a tiny bit) take some comfort that Detroit's loss was much more painful than the Sox'. Cleveland got waxed (by an Angels team that I think will wake up soon). Minny in a pitcher's duel with Oak.

Need these next two though.

ChiSoxJay
06-02-2006, 10:42 PM
As soon as Ozzie put Mack in to hit for BA I told my daughter, "This is a bad move because we're going to need Anderson's defense in the ninth." I hate being right all the time.

Good game by Gload. This is why he is a valuable member of this team.

You hit it right on the money! I'm really getting sick of all these called third strikeouts that appear to be happening on a nightly basis. On top of that we have Crede swinging at a third strike 4 f***ng feet off the plate! Thank goodness the Yankees and Red Sox have helped us the last 5 days otherwise we would be about 8 games out by now.

SouthSide_HitMen
06-02-2006, 10:42 PM
I'm sorry but if Mackowiak starts he should be pulled by the 6th or 7th in a close game and he should not pinch hit for Anderson unless it is the ninth inning.

I rather have Anderson play the whole game. Mackowiak is NOT a centerfielder period.

This game hurt big time. Hopefully Thome will be back by the Tigers series. He is listed as having a left quad/adductor injury - I am pretty sure this is the same area but maybe a doctor or trainer can clarify.

Glad to see Garland back on track - about the only positive I can muster at this point after the injury / game.

soxwon
06-02-2006, 10:43 PM
in two months we will be laughing about this part of the year.
Dont worry we will be fine.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2006, 10:44 PM
Easier said than done. What kind of mental handcuffing is that? It's hard enough to protect the plate, but now you're making him protect the plate another 4 inches on each side and looking high. Iguchi was just trying to get on base to get something going. I can't fault him because the ump blew the call.
The ump was giving the Rangers 4 inches off the plate the whole night. However, the two "strikeout" pitches to Iguchi were only maybe an inch or two off the plate.

I had a lot of hunches today. I knew the game was tied as soon as Nelson came in. I had a feeling Mackowiak's defense would come back to haunt us and was pleading with Ozzie to leave Brian in. I knew McCarthy's walk would come around.

McCarthy had absolutely nothing against his last batter. The hitter was on everything he threw, except the curve that should have been strike three. :angry: That at bat went on and on, and there was no doubt in my mind when the count was 2-2 that he would put him on first.

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2006, 10:44 PM
in two months we will be laughing about this part of the year.
Dont worry we will be fine.

I agree with this. I'm not going to go Dark Cloud or piss my pants, but at the same time there are concerns that the Sox do need to address.

Tragg
06-02-2006, 10:44 PM
Indeed, the bullpen was not good tonight. Nelson is not getting the job done. I'll give Jenks a pass since Anderson would have caught the deep fly off of Matthews' bat.Is Nelson still throwiing it up in the zone?

ChicagoHoosier
06-02-2006, 10:45 PM
in two months we will be laughing about this part of the year.
Dont worry we will be fine.

I agree. I have concerns and believe Ozzie and Kenny will both address them over the next three months. Just hope we can learn from games like these. Bullpen is letting us down and they either need to shape up (which I expect) or ship out (maybe Nelson since he shows me nothing). McCarthy will be fine.

Just a bad night - we wouldn't be complaining so bad if it wasn't the 4th loss in a row. Let's get the next two and make up some ground during this Tiger losing streak.

JB98
06-02-2006, 10:45 PM
Is Nelson still throwiing it up in the zone?

Yep. That pitch to Young was up.

kwolf68
06-02-2006, 10:45 PM
I thought McCarthy pitched fine tonight...Why is everyone on his case...He walked a guy...Kinsler, after a 12 pitch at bat...It happens. Other than that, he was in complete control. Heck, I wanted him to stay in the flipping game.

Still, the bullpen has serious issues, but I see no hope in sight unless we are prepared to give up Josh Fields for some guy who probably isn't a surefire upgrade.

What we need is for these guys to get their crap together and also look down at Charlotte...Lopez has been unreal, Moreno has also been good, and who the heck knows...give Tracey a look at a relief role, it sure as hell can't be any worse than this crap we have going on now.

russ99
06-02-2006, 10:46 PM
unless we hit homers; tonight, it was awful.

I think this is a bigger problem that any of us think right now, and Thome being out is making it a lot more obvious.

What happened to situational hitting and Ozzie ball?? It looks like everyone's trying to slug one out every at bat for about 3 weeks now. It's fun when it works, but when it doesn't, see 2004 Sox.

ondafarm
06-02-2006, 10:46 PM
Easier said than done. What kind of mental handcuffing is that? It's hard enough to protect the plate, but now you're making him protect the plate another 4 inches on each side and looking high. Iguchi was just trying to get on base to get something going. I can't fault him because the ump blew the call.

The ump blew the call twice. Both pitches he called Iguchi out on were outside.

Anybody know anyone at the Cell who handles the Questec results? I'll trade him plenty for a copy of those results, that game was cold handed to the Rangers.

drewcifer
06-02-2006, 10:46 PM
Jeff Nelson is not going to work out.
Jeff Nelson?

I know you didn't forget about Cotts, Logan, Thornton, MCarthy, et al. chumps the last month.

***? Not even one ounce of the talent or pride I saw from MY team last year.

We're supposed to have the bullpen. We're supposed to have the umps benefit of doubt.

This last couple weeks look like absolute **** I want to fill holes in my lawn with.... bullpen.

cws05champ
06-02-2006, 10:47 PM
No fundamentals showed at all! 6th inning runner on 2nd with 2-1 & 3-1 count to Uribe. On 3-1 he squares to bunt, but tries to get a running start on a bunt down the first base line...foul! Why is he trying to get on base when his priority is to get the runner to 3rd? Then he tries to pull a 3-2 pitch and ground out to 3rd. BA goes out to third very next batter...Pods flies out. Horrible!!!

oeo
06-02-2006, 10:47 PM
What is with this lovefest with Mackowiak? Although his offense has been better than Brian's, it isn't a huge difference. Brian could have flied out deep to center and Brian would have had that ball. I'm absolutely sick of seeing Mackowiak in center, and I bet he starts there tomorrow. In a close game like this, Brian's defense is a NECESSITY. Brian could have made an out as well, and they had the top of the order coming up in the 9th. Stupid, stupid decision by Ozzie to put Mackowiak in there.

Mackowiak's defense has hurt the team more than Brian's offense has. Enough with the platooning, either pickup a centerfielder or give Brian all the AB's and hope he can turn it around. He's not giving terrible AB's anyway, and I think if he could play everyday he would be able to get into a groove. Instead Mackowiak is getting his AB's, and Brian is being played like the backup.

SoxFan78
06-02-2006, 10:47 PM
I thought McCarthy pitched fine tonight...Why is everyone on his case...He walked a guy...Kinsler, after a 12 pitch at bat...It happens. Other than that, he was in complete control. Heck, I wanted him to stay in the flipping game.

They don't pay Bmac to walk guys, they pay him to get people out. And after last nights game, Sox fans have very little patience for McCarthy.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2006, 10:49 PM
You hit it right on the money! I'm really getting sick of all these called third strikeouts that appear to be happening on a nightly basis. On top of that we have Crede swinging at a third strike 4 f***ng feet off the plate! Thank goodness the Yankees and Red Sox have helped us the last 5 days otherwise we would be about 8 games out by now. Yes, few things piss me off more than the Sox swinging at garabge like that. It only makes it worse when DJ makes excuses for it. "That was a nasty, nasty pitch." NO! No it wasn't. It was garbage. It started outside, and went further outside in the dirt. From the first pitch of the at bat (high and in, he swung at it) it was clear Crede was swinging for the fences. He did his best Sosa impression that at-bat.

kwolf68
06-02-2006, 10:51 PM
They don't pay Fingernails on a blackboard to walk guys, they pay him to get people out. And after last nights game, Sox fans have very little patience for McCarthy.

Its not like he had no control. McCarthy's walk tonight was simply a matter of the other guy beating him. Kinsler earned that walk by fighting off some tough pitches. Kinsler is a brilliant young player. Our guy got beat on that one. I am fine with that.

Show me ANYONE in the pen doing squat outside of Jenks. They've all been bad. Tonight looked like the game at least one of them (BM) had a chance to get back in the groove.

Tragg
06-02-2006, 10:52 PM
They don't pay Fingernails on a blackboard to walk guys, they pay him to get people out. And after last nights game, Sox fans have very little patience for McCarthy. He's also in his first full season and needs to learn. Tell that to Jeff Nelson.

billyvsox
06-02-2006, 10:52 PM
Never to early to shake things up....this club needs a wake-up call.

My suggestions:
1) McCarthy to AAA to start - we may need him later.
2) Nelson - Waived
3) Live or die with Politte and Cotts as set-up men.
4) Find 2 relievers to join Thornton in middle/long relief. (maybe Marte and Vizcaino)
5) Make starters pitch INSIDE...start drilling people if we have to.
6) TEACH Uribe how to bunt. Don't just bitch about it when he fails.
7) Live or die with BA in centerfield. His defense outweighs his lack of hitting
8) Steal bases, hit and run, bunt, steal, hit and run and hit and run. Everyone is swinging from their heels.
9) Ozzie quit complaining about lack of execution and start forcing it and enforcing it. Otherwise you are just Jerry Manuel with bad english.

oeo
06-02-2006, 10:53 PM
Its not like he had no control. McCarthy's walk tonight was simply a matter of the other guy beating him. Kinsler earned that walk by fighting off some tough pitches. Kinsler is a brilliant young player. Our guy got beat on that one. I am fine with that.

Show me ANYONE in the pen doing squat outside of Jenks. They've all been bad. Tonight looked like the game at least one of them (BM) had a chance to get back in the groove.
Brandon has had a couple of tough outings, he hasn't been bad the whole year. Up until his start a couple weeks ago, he was the only reliable one next to Jenks. Brandon is good, he made one big mistake last night and it got mashed; you just have to move on.

And Cotts, he's had a few bad outings, but he's been overall very good as well. Some of you are judging these guys on 1-2 outings, and not their season. Everyone has a few bad days; our starting rotation does, our starting lineup, even Albert Pujols has some bad days. Yes, the bullpen has given up some big runs lately, but some of you are acting like the whole thing is garbage. Politte and Nelson are the only two that are garbage, keep the rest of them, they will be good down the stretch...even as much as most of you would hate to believe it. We still need a couple of guys to solidify it, but *****, it's not terrible.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2006, 10:54 PM
Its not like he had no control. McCarthy's walk tonight was simply a matter of the other guy beating him. Kinsler earned that walk by fighting off some tough pitches. Kinsler is a brilliant young player. Our guy got beat on that one. I am fine with that.
I disagree. McCarthy was throwing garbage that the hitter was all over. He hit everything McCarthy threw at him except the curve that should have ended the the at bat. He had nothing, and he couldn't put him away. After so many pitches were fouled off, there was no doubt in my mind that he would end up putting him on.

southsideirish71
06-02-2006, 10:54 PM
Yes, few things piss me off more than the Sox swinging at garabge like that. It only makes it worse when DJ makes excuses for it. "That was a nasty, nasty pitch." NO! No it wasn't. It was garbage. It started outside, and went further outside in the dirt. From the first pitch of the at bat it was clear Crede was swinging for the fences. He did his best Sosa impression that at-bat.

Considering that a lot of pitchers pitch our right handers away, its shouldnt be a shock when our hitters see low and away all night long, and then sweeping breaking pitch in the dirt. They keep fouling the balls off, hoping for the center cut ball to pull and hit hard. Well guess what, sometimes the pitcher has enough control to keep the ball out there all night long. At some point it would be nice to see our hitters actually attempt to take the ball into right when a pitcher is going after the outside corner like they do against us. It seems that when our pitchers sit out on the outside corner all night long, other teams adjust to it and send it into right and right center. See Buerhles bad inning the other night for that approach.

Pulling low and away pitches make nice popups and sweet ground balls, but not anything you can drive.

EdHerman12
06-02-2006, 10:56 PM
Oh boy.....this one hurts.......I'm very concerned about our pitchers. It seems they are all struggling, there's always tomoorow and in the meantime :gulp: drink up and keep the faith. THE BOYS WILL PREVAIL!

Paulie did the job, but get well Jim Thome!

GO SOX!

kwolf68
06-02-2006, 10:56 PM
McCarthy had nothing? Are you kidding me? He faced 5 batters....2 he wiffed, 2 were easy outs and one walked after a 12 pitch at bat.

It seems his NOTHING was a helluva lot better than we've been seeing lately out of this pen.

drewcifer
06-02-2006, 10:56 PM
Yes, few things piss me off more than the Sox swinging at garabge like that. It only makes it worse when DJ makes excuses for it. "That was a nasty, nasty pitch." NO! No it wasn't. It was garbage. It started outside, and went further outside in the dirt. From the first pitch of the at bat (high and in, he swung at it) it was clear Crede was swinging for the fences. He did his best Sosa impression that at-bat.


So you're saying a relief pitcher threw a bad pitch on purpose...as you said "From the first pitch of the at bat".....got "Crede swinging for fences".

Thank you. That's relief pitching.

IlSox7 and the other guy breaking balls.... notice?????

TheOldRoman
06-02-2006, 10:57 PM
McCarthy had nothing? Are you kidding me? He faced 5 batters....2 he wiffed, 2 were easy outs and one walked after a 12 pitch at bat.

It seems his NOTHING was a helluva lot better than we've been seeing lately out of this pen.
I said he had nothing to his last batter. He was all over everything.

kwolf68
06-02-2006, 10:57 PM
What's the deal on Montero...I know he was up a while and didn't fare that well in very limited time.

It may be time to give he and Lopez shots at AAA before we go off trading prospects for aging bullpen scrubs.

kwolf68
06-02-2006, 10:58 PM
I said he had nothing to his last batter. He was all over everything.

Fair enough. He did seem to be throwing some "get it over with" pitches. Even from the 9 hole, Kinsler has some power.

Whatever the case, I still don't hang this one on Brandon. He flamed in Cleveland yes, but seemed to have a better hang tonight.

vegyrex
06-02-2006, 10:58 PM
Ugh!! 4 in a row. That hurts. Right now we don't look like defending world champs. Thank goodness NY and BOS took care of the Tigers for us. I have to agree that Anderson makes that play. Mackowiak himself said he'd rather play right field. I also don't see Nelson staying around much longer.

Oh well, lets get them tomorrow!!!!!!!!

TheOldRoman
06-02-2006, 10:58 PM
So you're saying a relief pitcher threw a bad pitch on purpose...as you said "From the first pitch of the at bat".....got "Crede swinging for fences".

Thank you. That's relief pitching.

IlSox7 and the other guy breaking balls.... notice????? No, you are still wrong.
The pitch to Crede was garbage, it was a mistake. Maybe Walker is a horrible hitting coach, because our hitters can't adjust worth ****. They can't lay off garbage, they can't hit junkballers, they can't hit lefties (despite being predominately righthanded). Crede should have thought "let's get a basehit here". Instead, he wanted to be the hero. If he was looking to shorten his swing, the first and last pitches of the AB would have been balls.
Besides that, most guys (not wearing a Sox jersey) dont swing at that. If you throw that crap to start out the at-bat you are behind 1-0.

soxwon
06-02-2006, 10:59 PM
I agree with this. I'm not going to go Dark Cloud or piss my pants, but at the same time there are concerns that the Sox do need to address.

will kw make a trade for a reliever or two?
Thome was needed tonight!!!

bigsqwert
06-02-2006, 11:00 PM
Anyone think Montero deserves another shot?

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 11:01 PM
So you're saying a relief pitcher threw a bad pitch on purpose...as you said "From the first pitch of the at bat".....got "Crede swinging for fences".

Thank you. That's relief pitching.

IlSox7 and the other guy breaking balls.... notice?????

Well if you want to drag me into this...you advocated coming in and throwing balls. I simply said you need to come in and throw good strikes, not meatballs. Yet, somehow, I am wrong in your mind.

This coming from the same person that called the members of the 2005 World Champions mediocre.

JB98
06-02-2006, 11:01 PM
Anyone think Montero deserves another shot?

No. There's no reason to think a career minor-leaguer is the answer.

billyvsox
06-02-2006, 11:02 PM
Let me clarify my views on McCarthy. I don't think he sucked tonight, in fact he was very good outside of the walk. I simply don't think he is bullpen material. He is 22 years old and he is a starter. I guarantee if you gave him truth serum and made him talk he would agree. When he says he wants to do whatever to help the club and he is fine developing in the bullpen, he is just spewing "baseball cliche's". He would be better off in AAA as a starter so he dosen't lose confidence!! Besides, if he is the pen and we need an emergency starter we will have to call on Haeger or someone else anyway since he is not 'stretched out'.

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 11:03 PM
Let me clarify my views on McCarthy. I don't think he sucked tonight, in fact he was very good outside of the walk. I simply don't think he is bullpen material. He is 22 years old and he is a starter. I guarantee if you gave him truth serum and made him talk he would agree. When he says he wants to do whatever to help the club and he is fine developing in the bullpen, he is just spewing "baseball cliche's". He would be better off in AAA as a starter so he dosen't lose confidence!! Besides, if he is the pen and we need an emergency starter we will have to call on Haeger or someone else anyway since he is not 'stretched out'.

Just throwing this out there, but one Johan Santana spent a good amount of time in the bullpen. As did MB. So it's actually fairly normal.

oeo
06-02-2006, 11:03 PM
Oh boy.....this one hurts.......I'm very concerned about our pitchers. It seems they are all struggling, there's always tomoorow and in the meantime :gulp: drink up and keep the faith. THE BOYS WILL PREVAIL!

Paulie did the job, but get well Jim Thome!

GO SOX!

I don't understand this...:?:

I mean, did you watch the game? Overall, the pitching was great. Garland was good, he made a mistake that just happened to be a 2-run homer. We lost because we didn't get a hit when we needed to, and because Mackowiak can't run out a fly ball. We didn't lose this game because of our pitching...

paciorek1983
06-02-2006, 11:03 PM
What happened to situational hitting and Ozzie ball?? It looks like everyone's trying to slug one out every at bat for about 3 weeks now. It's fun when it works, but when it doesn't, see 2004 Sox.

Tonight was about situational hitting, and yeah, they did look like 2004. That is a big problem. I don't like th power game and they really need to play more smart baseball.

Overall, I'm not that worried. They lost 4 in a row--so what? I'd rather have a losing streak now than in September. Kenny and Ozzie will get this whole thing worked out. Everyone should stop pushing teh panic button--good thing noone on this board is in charge of teh team. I can understand the frstration tho.

Brian26
06-02-2006, 11:04 PM
This coming from the same person that called the members of the 2005 World Champions mediocre.

I brought that up in the gamethread, and he didn't answer. It's such an ignorant comment on so many levels. I don't understand how a Sox fan could ever say that about the '05 team.

JB98
06-02-2006, 11:04 PM
Let me clarify my views on McCarthy. I don't think he sucked tonight, in fact he was very good outside of the walk. I simply don't think he is bullpen material. He is 22 years old and he is a starter. I guarantee if you gave him truth serum and made him talk he would agree. When he says he wants to do whatever to help the club and he is fine developing in the bullpen, he is just spewing "baseball cliche's". He would be better off in AAA as a starter so he dosen't lose confidence!! Besides, if he is the pen and we need an emergency starter we will have to call on Haeger or someone else anyway since he is not 'stretched out'.

I'm sorry, but given the state of our bullpen and our pitching staff as a whole right now, we need our 11 best men on the big-league club. Brandon is clearly one of those 11 men. No one in Charlotte would do a better job in relief than what McCarthy is doing right now.

oeo
06-02-2006, 11:05 PM
Let me clarify my views on McCarthy. I don't think he sucked tonight, in fact he was very good outside of the walk. I simply don't think he is bullpen material. He is 22 years old and he is a starter. I guarantee if you gave him truth serum and made him talk he would agree. When he says he wants to do whatever to help the club and he is fine developing in the bullpen, he is just spewing "baseball cliche's". He would be better off in AAA as a starter so he dosen't lose confidence!! Besides, if he is the pen and we need an emergency starter we will have to call on Haeger or someone else anyway since he is not 'stretched out'.

He does need more work, but he's also above the AAA level. He also needs work against major league pitching, he's already shown that he can beat guys in AAA. Besides, we have no one to replace him in the pen, so he better be staying. That's another guy lost, and who are we going to replace him with, Boone Logan?

drewcifer
06-02-2006, 11:09 PM
Well if you want to drag me into this...you advocated coming in and throwing balls. I simply said you need to come in and throw good strikes, not meatballs. Yet, somehow, I am wrong in your mind.

This coming from the same person that called the members of the 2005 World Champions mediocre.

Ok, ok.... you're right.

Don - Teach 'em to throw good strikes. Not the ones that give up a tie after the starter worked 6+ and the bats are lost.

That better?

:rolleyes:

We were mediocre in EVERYONE'S eyes last year. (I guess that should be in teal, but I live in NY) And we are again. And we WILL/CAN suprise again too.

Difference now is: Everyone is going to put out their best against us. Price of being the Champs. We're supposed to be ready. Bullpen - Not ready. Right?

billyvsox
06-02-2006, 11:09 PM
Just throwing this out there, but one Johan Santana spent a good amount of time in the bullpen. As did MB. So it's actually fairly normal.

By the way when Santana was in the pen for Minny he sucked (look up his numbers), it wasn't until he was a regular starter did he become dominant.
Ditto for Bueherle.

And when Garland and Bueherle and Kip Wells, etc were learning in the bullpen, how good were they and how did the team fare??? I rest my case.

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 11:10 PM
I brought that up in the gamethread, and he didn't answer. It's such an ignorant comment on so many levels. I don't understand how a Sox fan could ever say that about the '05 team.

Agreed. The 2005 team was a joy to watch from start to finish. Calling that them mediocre is insulting.

infohawk
06-02-2006, 11:11 PM
Its the bullpen people. Texas' bullpen mowed right through our formidable lineup, but our bullpen, much like previous games, was handed a lead and promptly blew it. Well, I would have to agree. What this team needs to really take off is an upgraded bulllpen. Apparently I was fortunate to not be home to see the game tonight, but all I need to know is that we had a late lead and couldn't hold it. Being an optimist, I have three things to say.

First, we are officially in a slump, but hopefully a small one. It happens to even good teams and is nothing to panic about, especially in early June. As fans we have a tendency to get melodramatic about a small sample of games in a very long season.

Second, we are actually very, very fortunate that our slump has coincided with the Tigers cooling-off period. The Indians lost as well. When you're the team in the division with a small lead, the pressure is on you to take advantage of the second place team's losing streak to put a little more space between the teams. The Tigers have not taken advantage of our down time.

Third, we have some very evident bullpen issues and KW WILL fix them when a deal can be made. If anyone thinks that he won't, they don't understand Kenny Williams.

We have an outstanding team and I'm just not concerned to the point of gloom, doom and panic.

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 11:14 PM
Ok, ok.... you're right.

Don - Teach 'em to throw good strikes. Not the ones that give up a tie after the starter worked 6+ and the bats are lost.

That better?

:rolleyes:

We were mediocre in EVERYONE'S eyes last year. (I guess that should be in teal, but I live in NY) And we are again. And we WILL/CAN suprise again too.

Difference now is: Everyone is going to put out their best against us. Price of being the Champs. We're supposed to be ready. Bullpen - Not ready. Right?

There is a HUGE difference between a good strike and a get-me-over strike. If you cannot see that, then you've got a problem.

And guess what, the 2005 team was not mediocre in my eyes (and a lot of people's eyes around these parts). It was a collection of solid ballplayers. Calling that mediocre disgusts me. Sadly, you ahve apparently bought into what "EVERYONE" else says. I tend to think for myself.

As for the bullpen: if you don't think KW is doing everything he can to make it better, you're crazy. Some people refuse to accept the fact that bullpen help is not easy to come by. There is a thread (started by Lip I think) that analyzes REAL potential options. Take the bitching about the pen to that thread where possible solutions (and not bitching) are being discussed.

Then again, if it's just a mediocre bunch of guys (because if EVERYONE says that it must be so) then we're doomed.

drewcifer
06-02-2006, 11:14 PM
By the way when Santana was in the pen for Minny he sucked (look up his numbers), it wasn't until he was a regular starter did he become dominant.
Ditto for Bueherle.

And when Garland and Bueherle and Kip Wells, etc were learning in the bullpen, how good were they and how did the team fare??? I rest my case.

Good point. <You need to learn to spell Buehrle, though.>

infohawk
06-02-2006, 11:14 PM
in two months we will be laughing about this part of the year.
Dont worry we will be fine.
I second this sentiment. The Sox will go on a run or two eventually.

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 11:16 PM
By the way when Santana was in the pen for Minny he sucked (look up his numbers), it wasn't until he was a regular starter did he become dominant.
Ditto for Bueherle.

And when Garland and Bueherle and Kip Wells, etc were learning in the bullpen, how good were they and how did the team fare??? I rest my case.

I was just making my point in terms of their development. The time spent in the pen did not hurt the end result of them being very good starters. In fact, many will say it helped them as they were able to face major league hitters instead of AAA hitters when there was not a spot in the rotation for them. So there is a good argument on both sides.

kwolf68
06-02-2006, 11:17 PM
The problem isn't just the Tigers its that the Twins may be allowed to creep back into it.

Now that Siriano is in their rotation they have 2 automatic wins at the top of their rotation and their pen typically has been strong.

Cleveland's pen is also getting better and they'll eventually put Sowers into their rotation making them better...we already know they can hit.

Cleveland got beat tonight by the phenom Jerrad Weaver and that definately helps the cause, but the trend that our pen is not producing is worrisome. Pollite has gone from brilliant in 2005 to waiver wire fodder to be honest.

Cotts seems to be OK, not too bad...he'll be fine. Thornton who knows...a lefty humping it at 97 isn't bad at all and he did have a good run about a week ago, but Cleveland smoked him like a cigar.

Nelson I have no faith in and McCarthy has not been very good in the pen. We have Jenks and a bunch of who the heck knows...We have good arms out there, we have proven arms, we have arms that carried us to a pennant last year and that's what makes this troublesome.

If we go trade for relievers, then do we cut someone? Only Nelson appears to be actual waiver wire material at this point and he's probably not had enough appearances to verify that. In short, I think we need to ride this one out and hope Coop gets those guys straight.

bigsqwert
06-02-2006, 11:23 PM
They lost 4 in a row--so what?

It's 6 out of 8.

I'd rather have a losing streak now than in September. So if they have a losing streak now that automatically means they won't have one in September? They are not allowed to have one at both times?

drewcifer
06-02-2006, 11:24 PM
There is a HUGE difference between a good strike and a get-me-over strike. If you cannot see that, then you've got a problem.

And guess what, the 2005 team was not mediocre in my eyes (and a lot of people's eyes around these parts). It was a collection of solid ballplayers. Calling that mediocre disgusts me. Sadly, you ahve apparently bought into what "EVERYONE" else says. I tend to think for myself.

As for the bullpen: if you don't think KW is doing everything he can to make it better, you're crazy. Some people refuse to accept the fact that bullpen help is not easy to come by. There is a thread (started by Lip I think) that analyzes REAL potential options. Take the bitching about the pen to that thread where possible solutions (and not bitching) are being discussed.

Then again, if it's just a mediocre bunch of guys (because if EVERYONE says that it must be so) then we're doomed.

I just realized... You're a woman. I didn't bitch about our pitching by the way: I offered A SOLTUTION - TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT, DON'T THROW A MEATBALL TO TRY AND GET AHEAD WHICH EVERYONE KNOWS/EXPECTS. Show your stuff! I said it twice. Then, I had to post a "I give up" after it happened AGAIN!

<Answer for everything, huh?>

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 11:28 PM
I just realized... You're a woman. I didn't bitch about our pitching by the way: I offered A SOLTUTION - TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT, DON'T THROW A MEATBALL TO TRY AND GET AHEAD WHICH EVERYONE KNOWS/EXPECTS. Show your stuff! I said it twice. Then, I had to post a "I give up" after it happened AGAIN!

<Answer for everything, huh?>

I appreciate the personal insult (which is against the rules here). Go back and read what you said (establish by throwing outside of the strike zone) and then read what I said (no, you need to throw good strikes, not meatballs). You advocated throwing balls, while I advocated throwing good strikes (use the corners, pitches with good movement, etc). That's all I said. You continually called me out for that (in another thread, even).

If you actually meant that a pitcher should come in and throw good strikes "using his stuf" then that's all you needed to say. But at every turn you kept saying they need to "establish" by throwing out of the zone.

Vernam
06-02-2006, 11:31 PM
9) Ozzie quit complaining about lack of execution and start forcing it and enforcing it. Otherwise you are just Jerry Manuel with bad english.With so many overwrought comments in this thread, it was hard for me to pick just one to quote. But this one will do.

After last August, I can't believe that anyone bought the hype that this season would be a stroll. Going back to the '85 Bears and all the Bulls championship teams, this city has no concept of how hard it is to dominate a professional sport. You'd think we would, given all the years of futility. But the handful of years where some switch was flipped and one of our teams became invincible has given people a distorted view of what championship teams usually look like. In other words, I hope people won't be slitting their wrists if the Sox don't go 11-1 in the 2006 post-season.

Now for some actual game analysis . . . I have to say McCarthy looked fine and just lost the battle to Kinsler. Tip your cap, as the saying goes. I do think Anderson catches the ball to deep center, but is anyone seriously claiming it was a mistake to have Mackowiak pinch hit in that situation?

Garland pitched about as well as he has all year. The video montage of him sawing off a half-dozen or so Rangers was pretty encouraging. On the downside, sometimes it looked like they knew when his changeup was coming.

Stranding Gload at second was the really glaring fault. I'm a big Uribe booster, but his failure to bunt lately is hurting us badly.

If you really want something to obsess over, worry about whether Contreras's back is okay. He didn't look right in Cleveland.

Vernam

TaylorStSox
06-02-2006, 11:33 PM
We need our best defensive team on the field in the late innings. It's pretty damn obvious. I don't care what BA's hitting. He's our CF.

We can glorify "Ozzie ball" and all that crap til the cows come home. We won last year because we had the best staff in baseball. A huge part of that staff was the tremendous defense behind them. We need to get back to that. We can score enough runs to win games with me hitting in the 9th hole. A couple weak spots in the 8th and 9th holes is worth what we gain in the field. You can see it in the pitcher's approach. IMO, a big part of some of their failure is that they don't have the same faith in the defense. Last year, Garland had the "go ahead and hit it" attitude. This year, he's trying to make the perfect pitch everytime and he's getting burned.

Overall, I'm not worried. I think our philosophy needs an adjustment though.

In defense of Mack, you don't put a guy in a position to fail. Ozzie did that tonight.

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 11:35 PM
Stranding Gload at second was the really glaring fault. I'm a big Uribe booster, but his failure to bunt lately is hurting us badly.



Vernam
That was the key of the ballgame, to me. Juan has a 3-1 count and tries to bunt, which is just fine. However, he is trying to push it right to the 1st baseman. With a runner on 2nd, that is not where you bunt to. He was not mentally prepared in that AB. BA actually came up and put a good swing on a ball and hit it hard, but right at the left side of the infield. If Juan does his job, then BA is simply looking to hit a fly ball.

It's been a bad week. The key is making sure that bad week does not turn into a bad month. Pull out of this, and we're fine. Keep spinning and you have some trouble. I'm confident this team is too good not to pull out of this. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

drewcifer
06-02-2006, 11:37 PM
Today's theme: horrible

Horrible execution by Uribe
Horrible game all around for Podsednik - hurt the team offensively and defensively
Horrible defense by Mackowiak
Horrible strikezone by umpire

Oh, and I am fuming at Iguchi. He knew how horrible the strikezone had been all day. You can't take two ****ing 2 strike pitches right off the plate when the zone is that bad.

Wouldn't change a thing about this post as it relates to "offense".

oeo
06-02-2006, 11:55 PM
I do think Anderson catches the ball to deep center, but is anyone seriously claiming it was a mistake to have Mackowiak pinch hit in that situation?

Yes, there is no reason to do so. The chances are very small that Mackowiak, or anyone for that matter, would have made a game changing hit with a man on first and 2 out. Maybe he does it, but chances are it doesn't happen. It's a tie game, and you have the top of your lineup coming up in the 9th. Keep your strong defensive guys out there, because you need them to keep the game right where it is, so that the big part of your lineup can bring in a run. I questioned the decision right away, and once Mackowiak flied out, I had a gut feeling that his defense was going to cost the game.

Some of you are overrating Mackowiak, and underrating Brian's ability. Would Brian have gotten a hit? Probably not, but he had just as much a chance to get a hit as Mackowiak did.

russ99
06-02-2006, 11:57 PM
Tonight was about situational hitting, and yeah, they did look like 2004. That is a big problem. I don't like th power game and they really need to play more smart baseball.

Overall, I'm not that worried. They lost 4 in a row--so what? I'd rather have a losing streak now than in September. Kenny and Ozzie will get this whole thing worked out. Everyone should stop pushing teh panic button--good thing noone on this board is in charge of teh team. I can understand the frstration tho.

Good point. The Sox are something like 3-4 games behind last years franchise record start, so it's not THAT bad. It's just that after a championship, maybe we expect them to win and execute well every day, which ain't gonna happen for any team over a 162 game season.

A win tomorrow will make me feel a lot better. 2 out of 3 against Detroit next week make me feel great!

Mr. White Sox
06-02-2006, 11:57 PM
As soon as Ozzie put Mack in to hit for BA I told my daughter, "This is a bad move because we're going to need Anderson's defense in the ninth." I hate being right all the time.

Good game by Gload. This is why he is a valuable member of this team.
I said the same thing about Mackowiak to my dad, and he agreed with me. That out turned into an absolute waste. There are times you want to sacrifice defense and put offense in (if you are trailing, see: Mackowiak PH in the Oakland game), and there are times you need your defense in there more than your offense, such as in tie games or games in which you need to preserve a lead.

This was ugly.

Oh, and Brandon shouldn't have gotten the loss. That was strike 3 to Kinsler on that awesome curve right down the middle. That ump sucked.

IlliniSox4Life
06-03-2006, 12:00 AM
Anderson should have stayed in. What was Ozzie thinking?

Seriously, Mackowiak has, at best, a 30% chance of getting a run in on that play. Even then, we STILL need good defense to keep the lead in the 9th. 70% of the time, we go in to the 9th tied and need the defense to keep the lead.

However, guys, this is what we need:

1) Stop playing like ****.

That is all. They are a good team that is pitching like **** right now.

tehwhitesoxrulz
06-03-2006, 12:02 AM
Can someone explain to me why you put B mac in anyway why not stick with Cotts ?

Lip Man 1
06-03-2006, 12:03 AM
Well the number of blown games is now up to eight.

Nothing more needs to be said. The bullpen is bad. It was bad last week, it was bad last month, it was bad in spring training.

I hope something can be done before many more games are given away. Games the Sox can't get back....games that they may desperately be wishing for in September.

Lip

Corlose 15
06-03-2006, 12:03 AM
I'm sorry but if Mackowiak starts he should be pulled by the 6th or 7th in a close game and he should not pinch hit for Anderson unless it is the ninth inning.

I rather have Anderson play the whole game. Mackowiak is NOT a centerfielder period.

This game hurt big time. Hopefully Thome will be back by the Tigers series. He is listed as having a left quad/adductor injury - I am pretty sure this is the same area but maybe a doctor or trainer can clarify.

Glad to see Garland back on track - about the only positive I can muster at this point after the injury / game.

The four muscles of the quadriceps form your thigh, the adductors are your groin.

Viva Medias B's
06-03-2006, 12:04 AM
I just got back from the game. I am not sure Anderson would have gotten to that ball either. Maybe he would have, but chances are it would have fallen in on him as well.

Cause for frustration? Of course. Cause for dark cloudedness? No. Lately, we cannot hit when we pitch (Friday's loss to Texas), and we cannot pitch when we hit (Thursday's loss to Cleveland). It seems that our killer instinct continues to lack. Hopefully, it will be back tomorrow with Vazquez on the hiss.

As evidenced by their losses Friday night, I am not sold on either Detroit or Cleveland being lethal threats to us in the divisional race.

SouthSide_HitMen
06-03-2006, 12:08 AM
The four muscles of the quadriceps form your thigh, the adductors are your groin.

Thanks for the clarification. Farmer said he had injuries in two locations whereas the website states he has an injury in the general area:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060602&content_id=1484394&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


Precautionary measures: When Guillen rested Paul Konerko during Thursday's series finale at Jacobs Field, he mentioned finding a day off for designated hitter Jim Thome as the next priority on his list. Guillen just didn't realize how quickly that day would come.
Thome originally was in Friday's starting lineup, hitting third as the White Sox designated hitter. But he was scratched early Friday evening with a strain in the left quad/adductor area.

Hopefully it is one injury and he will be back by Monday the latest.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2006, 12:11 AM
Well the number of blown games is now up to eight.

Nothing more needs to be said. The bullpen is bad. It was bad last week, it was bad last month, it was bad in spring training.

I hope something can be done before many more games are given away. Games the Sox can't get back....games that they may desperately be wishing for in September.

Lip
But as long as the Sox are losing at you can say "I told you so" all is right in LipWorld. I seriously believe you live for the Sox BP blowing games just so you can post and update on the "worst bullpen in the history of mankind". And then you go on to wax poetically about "games that they may desperately be wishing for in September". You are in all your glory tonight.

Lip Man 1
06-03-2006, 12:13 AM
Roman:

All I'll say is you are out of your friggin' mind.

And the 1996 Sox bullpen was far worse. In fact they set the record (since broken) for the most blown saves in a season.

Does that make you feel better?

Kenny deserves all the praise for the magnificent job he did in 2005 and for the deals he made this off season. It's totally puzzling to me though, how someone who has become one of the better G.M.'s in the game, would go into the season with so many question marks in the pen.

Hell Roman I'm stupid and I could see there were going to be issues, you'd think Kenny would have as well.



Lip

Chips
06-03-2006, 12:13 AM
****ing ****ty game.

Have to beat them tomorrow.

The Dude
06-03-2006, 12:17 AM
****ing ****ty game.

Have to beat them tomorrow.


http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/chris_berman.jpg
"Hey guys, pretty good game so far....."

Bobbo35
06-03-2006, 12:24 AM
McCarthy looked fine tonight. Actually, he looked pretty sharp. We didn't lose the game because of him.

McCarthy I thought looked great tonight. The walk was the only thing against him and yes, Anderson would have had that ball.

I was about ready to rip my seat out at the cell tonight I was so pissed.

Bobbo35
06-03-2006, 12:26 AM
The ump was giving the Rangers 4 inches off the plate the whole night. However, the two "strikeout" pitches to Iguchi were only maybe an inch or two off the plate.

I had a lot of hunches today. I knew the game was tied as soon as Nelson came in. I had a feeling Mackowiak's defense would come back to haunt us and was pleading with Ozzie to leave Brian in. I knew McCarthy's walk would come around.

McCarthy had absolutely nothing against his last batter. The hitter was on everything he threw, except the curve that should have been strike three. :angry: That at bat went on and on, and there was no doubt in my mind when the count was 2-2 that he would put him on first.

That was a horrible strike zone. I am not defending Gooch either because he has to protect the plate in those situations, but those were not strikes.

paciorek1983
06-03-2006, 01:03 AM
It's 6 out of 8.

So if they have a losing streak now that automatically means they won't have one in September? They are not allowed to have one at both times?



sure they could. but just given the choice...now or later, I'd take now. I never said that they couldn't have another losing streak.

skobabe8
06-03-2006, 01:07 AM
As much as this team has pissed me off the last couple of days, this thread has pissed me off more.

Time for a self-imposed 36 hour ban for me.

Out.

CLR01
06-03-2006, 01:09 AM
On top of that we have Crede swinging at a third strike 4 f***ng feet off the plate!


I just realized... You're a woman. I didn't bitch about our pitching by the way: I offered A SOLTUTION - TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT, DON'T THROW A MEATBALL TO TRY AND GET AHEAD WHICH EVERYONE KNOWS/EXPECTS. Show your stuff! I said it twice. Then, I had to post a "I give up" after it happened AGAIN!

<Answer for everything, huh?>


See you guys in a week.

Viva Medias B's
06-03-2006, 01:15 AM
I was frustrated by our fourth loss in as many games, but there is no reason to be dark cloudish either. Look, teams important to us in the AL Central standings both lost tonight. The one ahead of us cannot beat teams that are better than crap (as evidenced by our sweep of them, the Yankees taking three of four from them, and the Carmines beating them Friday night). The other one in third place from the city by Lake Erie which poses a potential threat to us can only seem to beat us yet no one else. They are 6-3 against us, but they cannot seem to beat anybody else. I think the shortcomings of Detroit and Cleveland will catch up with them and, hence, will pave our way to the AL Central crown once again.

santo=dorf
06-03-2006, 02:11 AM
The bullpen is bad. It was bad last week, it was bad last month, it was bad in spring training.

Lip
Which if I recall correctly, that was the time you were calling for the Sox to sign Jeff Nelson.

Any second thoughts on his acquisition?

StillMissOzzie
06-03-2006, 02:18 AM
I don't know or care what the question is, but I am getting pretty damn sure that Jeff Nelson is not the answer. :angry:

SMO
:mad:

Grzegorz
06-03-2006, 05:14 AM
I was frustrated by our fourth loss in as many games, but there is no reason to be dark cloudish either. Look, teams important to us in the AL Central standings both lost tonight.

Viva,

There is every reason to be concerned; this team has not executed well. I cannot believe that some on WSI treat this like spring training in that the White Sox will eventually work the kinks out. This loss was a mental loss:

* Gload on second with no out; cannot get him to cross the plate. Uribe fails in his
sacrifice and Anderson grounds to third on the first pitch.
* Iguchi takes called third strikes; albeit the strikezone sucked but he has to do a
better job at protecting the plate.
* Nelson ineffective out of the pen (ok physical, he's lost his effectiveness)
* Mackowiac replacing Anderson in CF in the late innings; this move speaks for itself.

Garland pitched well; though his change-up wasn't working he pitched inside with authority. He sawed off the Texas bats on more than one occasion.

Losing one run games and lack of execution; they're inseparable...

mccoydp
06-03-2006, 05:17 AM
I just realized... You're a woman. I didn't bitch about our pitching by the way: I offered A SOLTUTION - TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT, DON'T THROW A MEATBALL TO TRY AND GET AHEAD WHICH EVERYONE KNOWS/EXPECTS. Show your stuff! I said it twice. Then, I had to post a "I give up" after it happened AGAIN!

<Answer for everything, huh?>
:o:

Holy ****.

Time to step away from baseball and do something else for a while.

BeviBall!
06-03-2006, 06:29 AM
Eight pages and not one mention of Pods busting his hump to get to that ball Young hit in the 7th. If he's running full speed, Sarge Jr. doesn't score and we're still leading.

Slumps compound everything. Crede's long swing is back, the bullpen keeps on keeping on, Pods is taking called third stirkes, no one can advance runners, blah, blah, blah.

Good news is these are all correctable offences.

Grzegorz
06-03-2006, 07:03 AM
Eight pages and not one mention of Pods busting his hump to get to that ball Young hit in the 7th. If he's running full speed, Sarge Jr. doesn't score and we're still leading.

I could be wrong, but it looked as if Pods was shading Sarge Jr. toward center. He had a long way to go for that ball and had to circle it to get off a good throw.

Hawk or DJ mentioned this, but I discounted their criticism (for what my "discounting" is worth).

How about the meatball Sarge Jr. hit? First pitch correct? Both he and Young first pitch hitting on different pitchers. Maybe they know something??? Kudos to the Texas scouts...

Dan H
06-03-2006, 07:25 AM
Anderson would have caught the hit on the fly that scored the game-winning run.

I'm not blaming Mackowiak. He is what he is - not as good as Anderson in center field.

This demonstrates why defense is important, especially when your best run producer - Thome - is not in the lineup.

I don't think this was the biggest play of the game. Jeff Nelson going into a slow wind up and and letting a fast runner get a great jump with two outs was inexcusable. He didn't even look at first much less throw over there. This was nothing but a minor league play.

Uribe's at in the sixth was a waste. His bunt attempts were feeable and then he taps one to third. If he is not going to hit for average, at least he should execute in other ways.

The Sox look like they are sleep walking out there. They are not sharp at all. It's not just a matter of not hitting or pitching. They aren't using their heads.

The team is too good to play like this. Maybe they should look at some highlight tapes of 2005 and get their collective memories back.

downstairs
06-03-2006, 08:22 AM
I was listening to the TV in another room, and I thought my DVR was broken. All I heard over and over was Hawk saying:

"Oh, he got a cookie right there and just fouled it back..."

"Oh, he got a cookie right there and just fouled it back..."

"Oh, he got a cookie right there and just fouled it back..."

"Oh, he got a cookie right there and just fouled it back..."

...

Red Barchetta
06-03-2006, 08:35 AM
If another person mentions the ****ing Cubs like it makes anything better, I'm gonna puke.

I agree. I find no solice in the Cubs woes. We're World Champions and I think we have a better team this year than last year, however we need to get back to the basics of what made us successful; pitching and defense.

We've missed an excellent opportunity this last week to take back the division lead. Yes, it's still early and no, I'm not panicking. Just frustrated on the missed opportunities as I was anticipating Detroit struggling against the Yankees and Red Sox.

Man do we need a nice 13 for 15 run right about now....

bigsqwert
06-03-2006, 08:57 AM
Eight pages and not one mention of Pods busting his hump to get to that ball Young hit in the 7th. If he's running full speed, Sarge Jr. doesn't score and we're still leading.

A ball that never even got past Pods. Inexcusable that someone standing on first scored on that play.

wassagstdu
06-03-2006, 09:20 AM
I thought McCarthy pitched fine tonight...Why is everyone on his case...He walked a guy...Kinsler, after a 12 pitch at bat...It happens. Other than that, he was in complete control.

Why is everybody having great at bats against us? Could it be that everyone is a little more motivated against the WS champs while the Sox are a little less hungry? Everybody else wants to take something from us. We want to keep what we've got.

Seems like Matthews was sitting on an off-speed pitch from Jenks. I thought you couldn't get away with that? Nobody will blame you if you sit on the fastball and get fooled by something off-speed. So that's the safe strategy. You take a chance, you win. You play it safe, you grab some bench.

At some point the Sox will go back to playing to win (or die trying ...) and not playing not to lose. How would that have worked: "Don't lose. Or die trying not to."

We all knew this was a danger, and the Sox are too good a team to let it beat them. This is a serious test of Ozzie as a manager. I think he'll find a way.
.

southside rocks
06-03-2006, 09:29 AM
Anderson would have caught the hit on the fly that scored the game-winning run.

I'm not blaming Mackowiak. He is what he is - not as good as Anderson in center field.
Yeah, I had that identical thought when Mack didn't get to that ball. I said to my dogs, "they're gonna lose this game because BA wasn't in there, how ironic is that!"

My dogs paid no attention. They can't get into baseball, the whole catch-it-in-a-glove-not-the-mouth thing bothers them.

southside rocks
06-03-2006, 09:32 AM
This is a serious test of Ozzie as a manager. I think he'll find a way.
Second this. It's the mental state of the club, more than anything, that needs some tinkering -- well, that and the bullpen. But this is Ozzie's test to pass or fail.

I can't picture Ozzie failing, so I'm watching with great interest to see how he will succeed at this. In spite of slumps and streaks, which I hate, this is a fun summer of baseball and will continue to be a fun summer of baseball for the Sox.

Beer Can Chicken
06-03-2006, 09:56 AM
Viva,

There is every reason to be concerned; this team has not executed well. I cannot believe that some on WSI treat this like spring training in that the White Sox will eventually work the kinks out. This loss was a mental loss:

* Gload on second with no out; cannot get him to cross the plate. Uribe fails in his
sacrifice and Anderson grounds to third on the first pitch.
* Iguchi takes called third strikes; albeit the strikezone sucked but he has to do a
better job at protecting the plate.
* Nelson ineffective out of the pen (ok physical, he's lost his effectiveness)
* Mackowiac replacing Anderson in CF in the late innings; this move speaks for itself.

Garland pitched well; though his change-up wasn't working he pitched inside with authority. He sawed off the Texas bats on more than one occasion.

Losing one run games and lack of execution; they're inseparable...


Don't forget Konerko swinging at the first pitch in the bottom on the 9th, just after Ozuna came out to pinch-run. *** was THAT!?

itsnotrequired
06-03-2006, 10:52 AM
Good thing I got tanked out of my gourd during last night's game (full blame placed on pdimas:cool:). That certainly lessened the blow. Met a couple more WSIers (zach23 and Blob). The streak continues...

MarySwiss
06-03-2006, 11:19 AM
I think the thing that makes this losing streak particularly hard to take is that we could really have made up ground on/pulled away from our division rivals and haven't.

Again, we're lucky that we haven't really lost ground. I have faith, and we'll be fine. :cool:

Frankfan4life
06-03-2006, 11:37 AM
Before the game I was sure the Sox were going to win. So now I'm stumped, puzzled, and dumbfounded. What's going on? The pieces are all there but they're just not fitting together. When we get good pitching, the defense and/or offense sucks, and when the offense is on, our pitching and/or defense sucks. I don't want to even count how many come from behind wins we have given up this year.

Come on White Sox, figure it all out and get it together. AND HURRY UP!!!

hawkjt
06-03-2006, 11:47 AM
hey gang, there is a reason that baseball is now clearly the toughest sport to win consecutive titles.

Basketball and football have had multiple winners in the past but in baseball now it is a different team every year.

It is just hard to replicate great pitching performances by a whole staff. More injuries to pitchers like Dustin, hitting is mercurial for most average hitters.

The sox will be in strong contention til the end, I am confident of that. But it certainly will not be a cakewalk.

Garland and MacCarthy had pretty strong outings, that is the bright spot.
Walks are killing us, and we arent getting many ourselves.

Go get'em today,.

Blob
06-03-2006, 12:23 PM
Good thing I got tanked out of my gourd during last night's game (full blame placed on pdimas:cool:). That certainly lessened the blow. Met a couple more WSIers (zach23 and Blob). The streak continues...

ALL you guys sure know how to party!

alohafri
06-03-2006, 05:44 PM
I'm watching the 2004,2003,2002 team all over again.

The return of Team Drudgery! Score 15 runs in one game, then struggle to score for the next 3 or 4.

It is time to end the Mackowiak experiment. He is a role/utility player, not a centerfielder. Put Anderson out there and leave him!