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The Dude
06-02-2006, 03:35 PM
Well I posted this in WTS because its pure speculation. Who should stay and who should go?? Also, what possible arms that may be available should KW go after?

2006 Bullpen summary:

Jenks - Solid, shouldnt go anywhere
Cotts- Solid one day, ****ty the next - inconsistant but should stay
Politte - Horrible - confidence is shot as well as his stuff- needs to go
Thornton-Didnt expect too much from him,isnt that good-should stay
Mccarthy- HES A STARTER, not a bullpen arm- should go to AAA to start
Nelson- hasnt had much of a chance, can be replaced

Possible trade targets from teams basically out of it:
Pirates:
Roberto Hernandez- aging but solid arm 2.31 ERA

Cubs:(probably wouldnt trade with us but anyways...)
Bob Howry - gascan has been playing well the last couple years - 2.10 ERA
Scott Erye - 2.00 ERA

Nats: (even more former sox players!)
Jon Rauch - 2.12 ERA

Any thoughts or additions????

infohawk
06-02-2006, 03:53 PM
I'd love to pry Scott Shields away from the Angels, but that would be highly doubtful. That said, the Angels don't look like they will be serious contenders and it is possible that one of Donnely or Shields could possibly become available.

I wouldn't mind taking a run at Bobby Howry. It can't hurt for KW to ask Hendry if they might be able to make a deal.

I also noticed that Rausch seems to be pitching well out of the bullpen, but I think his past conflicts with Ozzie preclude him as a candidate.

I wouldn't be surprised, knowing KW, if his solution to the bullpen is to use prospects to get another starter and then put Garland in the pen. I only say that because KW likes to think big and long-term. For example (just an example), I wouldn't be surprised if KW traded some pretty good prospects to the Marlins for Dontrelle Willis and kicked Garland into the pen as the primary right-handed set-up man. The bullpen gets better and the prospects given up are contingent on Willis signing an extension or something (I'm unaware of his contract status). KW could then trade Garland during the offseason (and perhaps even another starter if they want to put McCarthy in the rotation) for whatever he thinks the Sox may need going forward. KW likes to think big.

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2006, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't be surprised, knowing KW, if his solution to the bullpen is to use prospects to get another starter and then put Garland in the pen. I only say that because KW likes to think big and long-term. For example (just an example), I wouldn't be surprised if KW traded some pretty good prospects to the Marlins for Dontrelle Willis and kicked Garland into the pen as the primary right-handed set-up man. The bullpen gets better and the prospects given up are contingent on Willis signing an extension or something (I'm unaware of his contract status). KW could then trade Garland during the offseason (and perhaps even another starter if they want to put McCarthy in the rotation) for whatever he thinks the Sox may need going forward. KW likes to think big.

I was going to deeppink drool over something like this too: trading for a starting pitcher and moving the weakest starter to the bullpen, thereby strengthening the rotation and the bullpen at the same time. However, there isn't a deeppink sufficiently deep to express how much of a fantasy Dontrelle Willis would be (maybe deep purple?). If the Marlins were even willing to consider such a deal, though, the Sox probably would have to part with the cream of their minor league system: Sweeney plus Fields plus Broadway, and then some.

Nevertheless, if the Marlins do make Willis available, I would hope that KW would be in on the action, if only to prevent another AL team from obtaining him. I'll bet that Detroit, Cleveland, New York, Boston, Texas, Oakland and Anaheim would be interested suitors, plus any number of NL teams.

Lip Man 1
06-02-2006, 04:57 PM
For what it's worth it was reported in the newspapers midway through spring training, when the bullpen started giving up leads, that the Sox were looking at Juan Cruz and Oscar Villareal (sorry if the spelling is wrong...)

Lip

ilsox7
06-02-2006, 05:02 PM
Thornton has been one of the most reliable arms out of the pen the last several weeks. He had a bad night last night, but other than that was lights out for 6 or 7 straight appearances.

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2006, 05:06 PM
For what it's worth it was reported in the newspapers midway through spring training, when the bullpen started giving up leads, that the Sox were looking at Juan Cruz and Oscar Villareal (sorry if the spelling is wrong...)

Lip

Lip, what do you think of the idea of going after a starting pitcher instead, and moving one of the other starters to the pen?

SBSoxFan
06-02-2006, 05:18 PM
Lip, what do you think of the idea of going after a starting pitcher instead, and moving one of the other starters to the pen?
Ok, I'm not Lip, and I don't play one at WSI :D:, but, not to sound like the Hawk, who are you going to put there? A guy who just signed a $9M contract (Garland) in the bullpen? It sounds similar to the Foulke situation when they didn't trust him to close anymore. He was too expensive as a middle reliever so they traded him.

Chips
06-02-2006, 05:36 PM
Lip, what do you think of the idea of going after a starting pitcher instead, and moving one of the other starters to the pen?

I'm not Lip either, but no way.

Chicken Dinner
06-02-2006, 05:36 PM
I would bet that there will be no miricle deal that goes down and that we will have to fix the bullpen problems on our own.

The pitchers are getting behind in the count and the opposion is fouling off a lot of pitches. Then we throw that big fat meatball down the middle so we don't walk the guy and the rest is history. It seems that if a batter fouls off three pitches, here it comes. They just need to locate better and don't let the fouls bother them.

Keep the ball down and in and stop throwing it in the dirt.

Banix12
06-02-2006, 05:50 PM
Once Hendry gets it through his head that he is out of contention (the Nevin trade tells me he still thinks he can come back), Scott Williamson will likely be the best guy available this trade deadline as far as middle relievers go.

I also think some of the young guys the cubs have like Wuertz, Novoa, and Aardsma could be fine pitchers under the right coaching but that's more of a project.

Howry, Eyre and Dempster are likely not on the market because Hendry thinks he'll be able to contend next season. Williamson on the other hand is only signed through this season I believe and should be available.

Seattle has a couple guys in Putz and Soriano having fine years. I doubt they would trade them but it would be nice. Sox have had good luck trading with Seattle.

Pirates have Roberto doing well but I would be more interested in Mike Gonzalez if they would trade him, though i doubt that one too.

Nationals have Rauch and Majewski. I don't see Rauch as an option here but maybe they can trade to get back Majewski for a second time.

marlins, Tampa, Kansas City and Baltimore really have nothing really of a lot of value to trade as far as relievers. Either their bullpens are young and they want to hang onto them or they have a lot of veteran guys stinking up the joint.

Lip Man 1
06-02-2006, 06:20 PM
The Sox I think traded Majewski three times already.

And I don't think getting another starter is the answer. The troubles McCarthy is having adapting to the bullpen should serve notice that it's not an easy thing to do.

Lip

Banix12
06-02-2006, 09:39 PM
The Sox I think traded Majewski three times already.

And I don't think getting another starter is the answer. The troubles McCarthy is having adapting to the bullpen should serve notice that it's not an easy thing to do.

Lip

They traded him twice and lost him once in the rule 5 draft.

Drafted Majewski in 1998
Traded Majewski to Los Angeles as part of the Antonio Osuna trade
Reaquired Majewski in the James Baldwin trade
Toronto selected him in the rule 5 draft from the Sox and then returned him
Traded Majewski to Montreal as part of the second Carl Everett trade.

And I agree with you about the starters, ideally an effective middle reliever would be best.

infohawk
06-02-2006, 11:39 PM
Ok, I'm not Lip, and I don't play one at WSI :D:, but, not to sound like the Hawk, who are you going to put there? A guy who just signed a $9M contract (Garland) in the bullpen?
The whole thing would be based upon strengthening the bullpen this year, then trading Garland during the offseason, ideally for talented pitching prospects to put in the pipeline. KW knows the value of pitching and realizes that any sustained stretch of excellence requires young and cheap pitching talent here and there. In essence, Garland would only be an expensive reliever for the rest of the season before he is used as a commodity and traded for higher-end prospects from one of the many teams that desperately need another veteran starter right now.

drewcifer
06-02-2006, 11:58 PM
The pitchers are getting behind in the count and the opposion is fouling off a lot of pitches.


No. No.

They are not getting behind. At all. They are just plain getting hit. You said yourself, they are "fouling off a lot pitches".

Look at the splits.

Everyone else is studying us. Have to try and be a step ahead.

fusillirob1983
06-03-2006, 12:28 AM
Well I posted this in WTS because its pure speculation. Who should stay and who should go?? Also, what possible arms that may be available should KW go after?

2006 Bullpen summary:

Jenks - Solid, shouldnt go anywhere
Cotts- Solid one day, ****ty the next - inconsistant but should stay
Politte - Horrible - confidence is shot as well as his stuff- needs to go
Thornton-Didnt expect too much from him,isnt that good-should stay
Mccarthy- HES A STARTER, not a bullpen arm- should go to AAA to start
Nelson- hasnt had much of a chance, can be replaced

Possible trade targets from teams basically out of it:
Pirates:
Roberto Hernandez- aging but solid arm 2.31 ERA

Cubs:(probably wouldnt trade with us but anyways...)
Bob Howry - gascan has been playing well the last couple years - 2.10 ERA
Scott Erye - 2.00 ERA

Nats: (even more former sox players!)
Jon Rauch - 2.12 ERA

Any thoughts or additions????

Interesting how all the suggestions are former Sox players.

SoxFan76
06-03-2006, 12:36 AM
If the Sox got a good starter to replace the weakest link (which of course has been Garland), they can trade Garland for a top notch reliever and then some.

ilsox7
06-03-2006, 12:37 AM
If the Sox got a good starter to replace the weakest link (which of course has been Garland), they can trade Garland for a top notch reliever and then some.

I might make this my signature. Jon has a NTC. And he looked damn good tonight.

Sox-o-matic
06-03-2006, 08:08 AM
I might make this my signature. Jon has a NTC. And he looked damn good tonight.

Yes he did. Another starter in the pen is a very bad idea IMO. We need a couple of veterans who are acclimated to the role and can go out and hold a lead, not a guy who has to use just his fastball every other night because he can't locate anything else.

SoxFan76
06-03-2006, 11:25 AM
I might make this my signature. Jon has a NTC. And he looked damn good tonight.

Garland showed promise 2 starts ago, and he did look good last night. Still doesn't change the fact that he's been the weakest link so far.

But hey, I'm a Garland fan. I hope he keeps this up and really solidifies the rotation. He's already the best 5th starter in the league by default.*


*By that I mean most 5th starters aren't guaranteed 12 wins a year.

shaunburnette
06-03-2006, 11:31 AM
Roberto Hernandez would be an obvious start to fixing the pen. I would not say we would be done after just him though.

Ol' No. 2
06-03-2006, 11:33 AM
I might make this my signature. Jon has a NTC. And he looked damn good tonight.Maybe you can try it in another language.:tongue:

ilsox7
06-03-2006, 01:27 PM
Maybe you can try it in another language.:tongue:

Le Clause de No Trade. :cool:

And on a serious note, Jon deserves more than 2 months before he is relegated to sucking. I happen to remember a certain White Sox LHP who had an awful 1st half a few years back and he turned it around nicely. Let's not give up on Jon yet, folks.

RowanDye
06-03-2006, 01:37 PM
This whole trade for a SP and put Garland in the bullpen thing does not strike me as a good idea. IF the answer to the bullpen's struggles were to get another starter and put Jon in the 'pen, then why not just have him trade spots with McCarthy?

ilsox7
06-03-2006, 01:48 PM
This whole trade for a SP and put Garland in the bullpen thing does not strike me as a good idea. IF the answer to the bullpen's struggles were to get another starter and put Jon in the 'pen, then why not just have him trade spots with McCarthy?

While I'm not a fan of the proposal, the reasoning is that adding Jon and having him replace, say, Cliff, gives you another good arm in the pen. Whereas, switching Jon and Brandon is not a net gain or loss with of quality arms in the pen.

santo=dorf
06-03-2006, 02:12 PM
Arms on the farm:
AAA (Hitters' park)
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

See if Politte needs to go on the DL.
Determine if B.M.A.C will work in the bullpen, if not, send him to AAA to be a starter.
Shorten Nelson's leash even more. He's running on E.

The Dude
06-03-2006, 02:25 PM
Arms on the farm:
AAA (Hitters' park)
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

See if Politte needs to go on the DL.
Determine if B.M.A.C will work in the bullpen, if not, send him to AAA to be a starter.
Shorten Nelson's leash even more. He's running on E.
Politte to the DL would be great. He's useless to us right now at his current state and could serve him well to give him some time off and make a couple minor league appearances. Hell, bring up Lopez or Farnsworth and give them some experience.
I'm sure the medical staff can find something to warrant a DL stint simply by watching film of his relief appearances! Busted arm syndrome.:redneck

White Sox Randy
06-05-2006, 11:23 AM
I know how he is NOT going to do it. Not by continuing to check under every rock to find some guy that has a great arm or was great in the 70's or was just let go by some other team AND say Cooper will fix him, he fixes everything !

It would be stupid to pay a starter his money to become a reliever.

Does trading a few prospects for a couple of top tier quality, major league, veteran,dependable relievers that are making a few bucks sound like a far fetched scheme ?

I hope not.

Baby Fisk
06-05-2006, 11:26 AM
Does trading a few prospects for a couple of top tier quality, major league, veteran,dependable relievers that are making a few bucks sound like a far fetched scheme ?


No. Let's see what happens this Wednesday. :cool:

The Dude
06-05-2006, 11:30 AM
Does trading a few prospects for a couple of top tier quality, major league, veteran,dependable relievers that are making a few bucks sound like a far fetched scheme ?

More and more I think in the next few weeks we might see ol' Roberto putting back on the pinstripes. Just the most logical choice from the crappy teams at this point in time. Given his age, and how he is expendable by the Pirates since they have nothing going in the near future, a couple AA guys should do the trick.

Banix12
06-05-2006, 08:13 PM
More and more I think in the next few weeks we might see ol' Roberto putting back on the pinstripes. Just the most logical choice from the crappy teams at this point in time. Given his age, and how he is expendable by the Pirates since they have nothing going in the near future, a couple AA guys should do the trick.

Though as I recall, a lot of people thought the same thing the last few years about the Pirates and Jose Mesa and as I recall they never did anything with him.

Right now the Pirates are holding most of the cards here. A lot of teams need relief help and right now they are probably it as far as trading partners. It's a pretty bare cupboard out ther right now.

sullythered
06-05-2006, 08:32 PM
Le Clause de No Trade. :cool:


Hey ilsox, how about Garland for Eyre and Howry?

No teal needed, I just want to see if we can make someone actually have a mental breakdown based solely on community ignorance.:smile:

Domeshot17
06-05-2006, 09:35 PM
And on a serious note, Jon deserves more than 2 months before he is relegated to sucking. I happen to remember a certain White Sox LHP who had an awful 1st half a few years back and he turned it around nicely. Let's not give up on Jon yet, folks.

I agree, but under that same sense, shouldnt we have wated more then 2 months before we declared him a top of the rotation pitcher? Take away early in the first half last year, and he was average again in the 2nd half. I almost think after this much time we need to admit Garland is an AVERAGE pitcher. He is a .500 or slightly better pitcher with a respectable but not impressive mid 4 era. I mean, As good as Garland looked the last 2 games, he finished them like crap, and I dont care if you pitch 8 2/3 no hit baseball, then give up 8 runs in a row, you did not have a good start. The idea isnt to have Garland look Awesome for half of his start, the idea is to have him look it from his first pitch to last.

I also laugh at the people who hate bmac in the pen and want him starting in triple A, but its an awesome idea to shift Garland there. If it was up to me, I send Uribe and Rogowski/Fields and something to LA for Biemel and Ceaser Izturis. Defensive equal at SS with a much much much better bat, a solid middle relief guy, La gets uribe who can provide IF depth with Mueller sucking and Fields gives them a future at the hot corner.

santo=dorf
06-05-2006, 10:36 PM
Defensive equal at SS with a much much much better bat, a solid middle relief guy, La gets uribe who can provide IF depth with Mueller sucking and Fields gives them a future at the hot corner.
Surely you jest.

Uribe's career numbers: .258/.301/.424
Cesar's: .261/.295/.338

Even though they are a little sore, the Dodgers have a logjam in their infield with Cesar, Mueller, Nomar, Kent and Furcal. Trading one of them for another infielder doesn't make much sense especially since Uribe and Cesar cost a lot more than your average utility infielder.

Jjav829
06-05-2006, 10:39 PM
... and Fields gives them a future at the hot corner.

They already have one with Adam's younger brother Andy LaRoche.

Willie Aybar can hit a little, too.

Hitmen77
06-05-2006, 10:43 PM
Arms on the farm:
AAA (Hitters' park)
Jeff Farnsworth: 25.2 IP, 20 K's, 1.01 WHIP, 2.10 ERA
Javier Lopez: 28.1 IP, 21 K's, 1.02 WHIP, .64 ERA

See if Politte needs to go on the DL.
Determine if B.M.A.C will work in the bullpen, if not, send him to AAA to be a starter.
Shorten Nelson's leash even more. He's running on E.

I'm all for giving Farnsworth and Lopez a chance to fill our bullpen holes and then if they don't work out, go for a trade before the trading deadline. They'd have to bring these guys up soon. We can't wait until July 15 to bring up someone from AAA and have enough time before the trading deadline to see if they're of any use to us.

Has Farnsworth ever pitched in the majors before? I noticed that he's 30. Is he a career minor leaguer?

Tragg
06-06-2006, 07:34 PM
Does trading a few prospects for a couple of top tier quality, major league, veteran,dependable relievers that are making a few bucks sound like a far fetched scheme ?

I hope not.
If the prospects are good prospects, it sounds like a bad idea. Who can be considered quality major league relievers? If they are pitching middle relief, with rare exception, they are, by definition, not quality and very undependable.
Trading Fields or talent like that for a middle reliever would be laughable.

Why don't we trade what we get when WE trade the mediocre veterans?

SoxSpeed22
06-07-2006, 11:54 AM
McCarthy is not a 7th/8th inning guy. I think that calling up Lopez would be a good temporary solution even though we already went over the misleading strike zones. If we have to trade, I would try and get Putz from the Mariners.

SoxFan76
06-07-2006, 01:04 PM
I'd like to see Lopez since he's got some major league experience.

ma-gaga
06-07-2006, 01:31 PM
KW should consider someone like LaTroy Hawkins for a 7th or 8th inning role on the team. I wouldn't put him in at closer, but he seems to excel at the lower leverage situations.

I'm not sure of his salary, it was pretty exorbant for a reliever, but maybe they could get Baltimore to pick up some of it. But that means trading away a better prospect.

:cool: This is an easy name that would fit. I would hope that KW could find a little lesser known commodity, but LeTroy seems like he might be a good fit.

MadetoOrta
06-07-2006, 01:49 PM
Scott Shields would make the Sox a lock [if there is such a thing] for years. He has a rubberband arm and is nasty. Brendan Donnelly and Bobby Jenks would make one heck of a 8th-9th inning combo too.

Sargeant79
06-07-2006, 02:34 PM
Scott Shields would make the Sox a lock [if there is such a thing] for years. He has a rubberband arm and is nasty. Brendan Donnelly and Bobby Jenks would make one heck of a 8th-9th inning combo too.

I would love to have either one, especially Shields. But I doubt the Angels would be very inclined to help us out in a trade. I think it is highly unlikely that they will be sellers at the trade deadline. They're already playing better in the last couple weeks, and I'm willing to bet they will be in their own pennant race come mid-July.

Sox-o-matic
06-07-2006, 04:34 PM
McCarthy is not a 7th/8th inning guy. I think that calling up Lopez would be a good temporary solution even though we already went over the misleading strike zones. If we have to trade, I would try and get Putz from the Mariners.

If I could pick up any two middle relievers from any crappy team it would be Putz and his teammate Rafael Soriano. I doubt the Mariners would want to do that though unless we gave them something very good, like McCarthy.

I kind of think we'll end up with another crusty veteran though, one who is cheap but hopefully can pitch.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2006, 05:01 PM
Sox O:

They may need more then one.

Lip

caulfield12
06-07-2006, 06:11 PM
The Mariners are already looking bad after trading Thornton to us, then releasing Borchard....do you think their GM wants to have another egg on his face?

Not to mention Olivo and Reed haven't lit the world on fire, and Morse might never be more than a spare part, although he played well last night in only his 5th game of the season.

Soriano was one of the 10 best pitching prospects in baseball before his surgery. They're going to be careful with him, and eventually, he might go back into their starting rotation. We would have to trade Fields and one of our top minor league pitchers to get him, IMO. He's not just a bullpen guy.

There's no way the Angels are going to deal Donnelly or Shields to us, you might as well forget it. We'd have more luck trying to get a Juan Cruz, Ramon Ortiz or Salomon Torres type and not dealing our entire minor league system away in an effort to win at all costs this season.

Lip Man 1
06-07-2006, 10:51 PM
Caulfield:

Even though very few (if any) of the minor league players Kenny has dealt away has accomplished anything in the bigs? (What does that say about Kenny's ability and the ability of the minor leaguers in the first place...)

Lip

Sargeant79
06-07-2006, 11:20 PM
I hear Jason Grimsley is available...

Sox-o-matic
06-07-2006, 11:37 PM
The Mariners are already looking bad after trading Thornton to us, then releasing Borchard....do you think their GM wants to have another egg on his face?

Not to mention Olivo and Reed haven't lit the world on fire, and Morse might never be more than a spare part, although he played well last night in only his 5th game of the season.

Soriano was one of the 10 best pitching prospects in baseball before his surgery. They're going to be careful with him, and eventually, he might go back into their starting rotation. We would have to trade Fields and one of our top minor league pitchers to get him, IMO. He's not just a bullpen guy.

There's no way the Angels are going to deal Donnelly or Shields to us, you might as well forget it. We'd have more luck trying to get a Juan Cruz, Ramon Ortiz or Salomon Torres type and not dealing our entire minor league system away in an effort to win at all costs this season.

I don't know if trading Thornton made him look as bad as releasing Borchard in favor of Bloomquist. What's the point of trading for a guy if you're just going to sit him on the bench and then let him go?

I said I'd love to have at least one, preferrably both, of Putz and Soriano. It would take a lot to get that done and depending on who it was, I'd think it would be a worthwhile move if it was just minor league players involved in a trade. Both of these guys are cheap and very good, and could help out the pitching staff tremedously over the next three years.

I've said before that I think it would be wise to take offers for McCarthy since he's our most valuable trading chip and he's inconsistent in the bullpen, however there's no point in trading him tunless you get one, maybe two, solid young players who can help out this team now and in the future. For example, I wouldn't trade him for Griffey or Hunter, but I would for Carl Crawford or as part of a deal for a combo like Soriano and Putz.

Donnelly gets the job done definitely but I've never been too crazy about him. Shields would be a hell of a pick up but considering we have two capable lefties already and taking into account what it would probably cost to get him, I don't see the point. Now if we're talking K-Rod setting up for Jenks, that's a whole different story, but IMO just as unlikely to happen.

lostletters
06-08-2006, 12:22 AM
Well I posted this in WTS because its pure speculation. Who should stay and who should go?? Also, what possible arms that may be available should KW go after?

2006 Bullpen summary:

Jenks - Solid, shouldnt go anywhere
Cotts- Solid one day, ****ty the next - inconsistant but should stay
Politte - Horrible - confidence is shot as well as his stuff- needs to go
Thornton-Didnt expect too much from him,isnt that good-should stay
Mccarthy- HES A STARTER, not a bullpen arm- should go to AAA to start
Nelson- hasnt had much of a chance, can be replaced

Possible trade targets from teams basically out of it:
Pirates:
Roberto Hernandez- aging but solid arm 2.31 ERA

Cubs:(probably wouldnt trade with us but anyways...)
Bob Howry - gascan has been playing well the last couple years - 2.10 ERA
Scott Erye - 2.00 ERA

Nats: (even more former sox players!)
Jon Rauch - 2.12 ERA

Any thoughts or additions????


I COMPLETELY disagree with McCarthy comment. I have no problem with his bullpen stint. I rather have him get MLB experience in the bullpen then languishing in AAA as a starter. It will make him a better starter when he reaches that point in his career. There is NO substitute for MLB experience. Having him play in AAA would be a waste, and he is ready to play at the big league level.

Nelson is hurt and probably is done with baseball.

Politte is hurt.

Personally I liked what I am seeing from Montero. He is throwing strikes and challenging hitters. That is all I expect from a reliever.

Our lefties I am fine with. I would like one more solid righty. I thought that would be Politte this season. I would say he is the biggest disappointment.

If the Sox can find a right handed Veteran, I would really appreciate it. But ALL bullpens are fleeting and often young. One of the best bullpens in baseball was Oakland, and that bullpen often did not have a guy who was in the league for more then 3 years.

If the sox bullpen is young, and can throw strikes and challenge hitters, I can deal with it. I would rather have a young bullpen that does its job, then a veteran bullpen that walks guys.

Banix12
06-08-2006, 12:25 AM
I don't know if trading Thornton made him look as bad as releasing Borchard in favor of Bloomquist. What's the point of trading for a guy if you're just going to sit him on the bench and then let him go?

I said I'd love to have at least one, preferrably both, of Putz and Soriano. It would take a lot to get that done and depending on who it was, I'd think it would be a worthwhile move if it was just minor league players involved in a trade. Both of these guys are cheap and very good, and could help out the pitching staff tremedously over the next three years.

I've said before that I think it would be wise to take offers for McCarthy since he's our most valuable trading chip and he's inconsistent in the bullpen, however there's no point in trading him tunless you get one, maybe two, solid young players who can help out this team now and in the future. For example, I wouldn't trade him for Griffey or Hunter, but I would for Carl Crawford or as part of a deal for a combo like Soriano and Putz.

Donnelly gets the job done definitely but I've never been too crazy about him. Shields would be a hell of a pick up but considering we have two capable lefties already and taking into account what it would probably cost to get him, I don't see the point. Now if we're talking K-Rod setting up for Jenks, that's a whole different story, but IMO just as unlikely to happen.

Bloomquist was staying on the team regardless of what happened to Borchard. Borchard basically lost his 25th man job because the Mariners wanted to hang onto 1b/DH Roberto Petagine (who has all of 23 AB so far) and their at the time 4th OF Matt Lawton. That's why dumping Borchard seems stupid because one guy only has 23 AB and the other guy asked for his unconditional release. Hargrove also didn't like Borchard's swing, and probably wasn't going to play him anyway. Not sure why they got him but they weren't keeping Thornton anyway.

As for McCarthy. We need a CF/9 place hitter and a right handed relief pitcher. Both can likely be had for guys currently in the minor league system. I can't think of anytime a player the caliber of McCarthy was traded for a guy to pitch the 8th inning. And honestly if you look at McCarthy's underlying stats (1.29 WHIP) he hasn't been that bad, more like you said inconsistant. I think he can find that consistancy and will only get better.

Entertain offers, maybe, but it's gotta be something pretty big to even consider.

caulfield12
06-08-2006, 07:37 PM
Two guys that have always been tough on us are Justin Duscherer (sp?) and Juan Rincon with the Twins.

If the Twins want to save money to keep players like Hunter, they should definitely consider ditching Rincon and keeping the younger Crain.

Although, if Ryan remembers, it was Romero-Hawkins-Guardado that made those Twins teams so good from the 7th inning on from 2002-2004.

That darned Soriano is looking to be another Santana...there´s no way we would possibly give them McCarthy to go with those two guys.

I would definitely take a run at Soriano, but I don´t think we have enough to get him, not without giving up one of our Top 5 young prospects...I would definitely trade Valido for him, but not McCarthy or Fields. Anyone else would be an interesting coversation, although Lumsden, Liotta and Broadway would probably be off the table for KW as well. I would deal Liotta for Soriano in a heartbeat, though.