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View Full Version : White Sox snubbed so far:Yankees & Red Cubs VS NL?


Thome25
06-01-2006, 08:27 AM
I Just saw the first round of all star voting results and I got pretty heated!! UNBELIEVEABLE!! So far it looks like its going to be the yankees & red cubs VS the NL.

I can't believe that no player on our WORLD CHAMPION CHICAGO WHITE SOX is higher than third in the voting.

Something seriously needs to be done about this because it seems like it's one big "yankees and red sox popularity contest" this happens every year and the players that truly deserve to go the the All-star game get snubbed.

chaerulez
06-01-2006, 08:33 AM
Ozzie has said he will pick at least a few White Sox in his manager selections.

But yeah, Cano at 2B? What a joke.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 08:41 AM
Yeah Cano has to be the biggest joke in the voting so far because Iguchi is the BEST 2B in the AL in my opinion.

But guys like AROD over CREDE?! C'mon "Captain Clutch"
deserves to be the starting 3b over "Captain Craps his pants when he gets in the playoffs"

And Ortiz over the Home run leader in the AL? OUR JIM THOME?!

Bobby Thigpen
06-01-2006, 08:47 AM
Yeah Cano has to be the biggest joke in the voting so far because Iguchi is the BEST 2B in the AL in my opinion.

But guys like AROD over CREDE?! C'mon "Captain Clutch"
deserves to be the starting 3b over "Captain Craps his pants when he gets in the playoffs"

And Ortiz over the Home run leader in the AL? OUR JIM THOME?!

One- please stop yelling.

Two- I don't believe Thome's on the ballot is he. Since it's in the NL there is no DH and since Boston has no 1B worth a crap they probably put Ortiz as their 1B.

Three- Why does this surprise anyone? The Sox may have won the World Series, but very few of the players have any name recognition like many of the Boston and NY players.

Four- Crede? Seriously he's a guy who's starting his career and ARod is a guy who's been great for years now. There really is no contest. Now if Crede continues this for a couple of years, then it's time to complain. Remember this is a popularity contest, not about who deserves to go. How many years did Cal Ripken make it when there were at least 4 or 5 better SSs in the league?

Five- Why does anyone care? All these idiots have to do is win the game so the Sox can have homefield advantage in the series.:smile:

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2006, 08:50 AM
Yeah Cano has to be the biggest joke in the voting so far because Iguchi is the BEST 2B in the AL in my opinion.

But guys like AROD over CREDE?! C'mon "Captain Clutch"
deserves to be the starting 3b over "Captain Craps his pants when he gets in the playoffs"

And Ortiz over the Home run leader in the AL? OUR JIM THOME?!

Thome's been great, but there's no DH for the game in Pittsburgh. Plus, he's not played a single game at first. Furthermore, the Konerko is pretty good himself, and probably has drawn the Sox fan vote at first.

Rest assured, Thome will make the squad.

Jurr
06-01-2006, 08:51 AM
Don't think for a second that Ozzie isn't going to be getting his guys in that game. Period.

ewokpelts
06-01-2006, 08:52 AM
The fact that the Sox are so high in the voting results this early is a good sign of the growing national exposure.

And if you want the sox in the ASG, go to the park and fill out as many ballots as you can. You can go right now and ask for a big box of ballots.
Or go to Wal-Mart, since they have ballots too.
Gene

Thome25
06-01-2006, 08:58 AM
I just think Crede is a better all around player than Arod PERIOD.
I don't care what Arod has done in the last 10 years is still doesn't make it right. and I believe that reason he is the leading vote getter at 3b right now has more to do with him wearing yankees pinstripes than what he's done in his career.

Case in point: Robinson Cano

Thome25
06-01-2006, 09:03 AM
I'm a die hard WHITE SOX fan and I want WHITE SOX players starting the ASG so they can be the ones who decide if they get homefield advantage in the WS.

Do you guys think that the yankmees and the blowsox should be deciding if OUR world series contending team has home field advantage?!

I think I want Crede, Iguchi, Konerko, Thome etc. having more of an impact in the game than coming off the bench pinch hitting etc.

GoSox2K3
06-01-2006, 09:15 AM
Thome's been great, but there's no DH for the game in Pittsburgh. Plus, he's not played a single game at first. Furthermore, the Konerko is pretty good himself, and probably has drawn the Sox fan vote at first.

Rest assured, Thome will make the squad.

Which begs the question in my mind of why they don't just have the DH available for every All-Star Game regardless of city. This would allow players like Jim Thome to earn a start in the game.

I don't think this would necessarily be a disadvantage to the NL because they can easily fill the DH spot with position players who don't otherwise make the team for their position.

Frater Perdurabo
06-01-2006, 09:16 AM
Which begs the question in my mind of why they don't just have the DH available for every All-Star Game regardless of city. This would allow players like Jim Thome to earn a start in the game.

I don't think this would necessarily be a disadvantage to the NL because they can easily fill the DH spot with position players who don't otherwise make the team for their position.

I agree. In fact, how about adding the DH to all NL games, and do away with automatic outs at the bottom of every NL lineup.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 09:18 AM
Also, last time I checked Ortiz is a DH too. NOT a firstbaseman and he still leads the all star voting at 1b.

This is because he wears a boston red cubs uniform not because he is the best 1b in the AL. after all he is a DH.

WSox8404
06-01-2006, 09:21 AM
Is it just me or does Thome25 kind of sound like the second coming of Hangar.....

Thome25
06-01-2006, 09:22 AM
I agree. In fact, how about adding the DH to all NL games, and do away with automatic outs at the bottom of every NL lineup.


adding the dh would be the perfect idea both leagues would be equal on the field i.e. no one would be at an advantage/disadvantage. but you'd NEVER get the NL to agree to it.

besides hasn't the AL won something like the last 8 in a row with half of those games being played in nl parks without the DH?!

Thome25
06-01-2006, 09:26 AM
Is it just me or does Thome25 kind of sound like the second coming of Hangar.....


been visiting this site for a LONG time....and there is no second coming of "hangar the great"

just real passionate about the White Sox that's all.

chaerulez
06-01-2006, 09:27 AM
I just think Crede is a better all around player than Arod PERIOD.
I don't care what Arod has done in the last 10 years is still doesn't make it right. and I believe that reason he is the leading vote getter at 3b right now has more to do with him wearing yankees pinstripes than what he's done in his career.

Case in point: Robinson Cano

I don't like A-Rod as a person. In fact, I pretty much hate him. With that said, Joe Crede while better in the clutch, is no A-Rod. He's not even close to being A-Rod. A-Rod is a first ballot hall of famer. The A-Rod, Oritz, Manny, and Jeter selections are justified. The rest are not. I wouldn't have Varitek/Posada, Cano/Loretta or Giambi near the ASG. Damon maybe as a reserve.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 09:32 AM
I don't like A-Rod as a person. In fact, I pretty much hate him. With that said, Joe Crede while better in the clutch, is no A-Rod. He's not even close to being A-Rod. A-Rod is a first ballot hall of famer. The A-Rod, Oritz, Manny, and Jeter selections are justified. The rest are not. I wouldn't have Varitek/Posada, Cano/Loretta or Giambi near the ASG. Damon maybe as a reserve.


AROD may be a 1st ballot hall of famer but he pukes his guts out when he gets to the playoffs and like i said before, Crede in my opinion is a better all-around player.

to me the arod, ortiz, and varitek/posada picks are NOT justified. There's no way any of them should be starting over Crede, Thome/Konerko, and A.J.

spiffie
06-01-2006, 09:39 AM
AROD may be a 1st ballot hall of famer but he pukes his guts out when he gets to the playoffs and like i said before, Crede in my opinion is a better all-around player.
A-Rod's postseason career numbers in 31 games:
305/393/534, 6HR, 16 RBI, 19 R.

I don't like Rodriguez. I think he was even more crass than most players about grasping for as many $$$$ as he could get his hands on and then suddenly discovered he wanted to not play for a crappy team. But outside of last year when he did have an absolutely awful postseason it really is not fair to pin the losses his teams have had on him. The Yankees failures have been about pitching collapses, and in 2000 when the M's lost to the Yankees Rodriguez hit 409/480/773 in that series.

That said, I sure do love watching him mope when he loses in the postseason :tongue:

Thome25
06-01-2006, 09:46 AM
A-Rod's postseason career numbers in 31 games:
305/393/534, 6HR, 16 RBI, 19 R.

I don't like Rodriguez. I think he was even more crass than most players about grasping for as many $$$$ as he could get his hands on and then suddenly discovered he wanted to not play for a crappy team. But outside of last year when he did have an absolutely awful postseason it really is not fair to pin the losses his teams have had on him. The Yankees failures have been about pitching collapses, and in 2000 when the M's lost to the Yankees Rodriguez hit 409/480/773 in that series.

That said, I sure do love watching him mope when he loses in the postseason :tongue:

Watching the yankees collapse is the best thing in the world aside from watching the blowsox/cubs collapse.

nobody is blaming the yankees failures on arod it just that when you're making $25mil a year you need to come through with the big hits ESPECIALLY in the playoffs/world series. to me, arod just hasn't done that.

his playoff numbers aren't that bad but have any of those home runs or rbi come when the yankmees need them them most or did they come when his team was already down and out i.e. albert belle during his entire white sox career.

i said it once and i'll say it again: There's NO WAY AROD should be starting ahead of Crede in the ASG.

itsnotrequired
06-01-2006, 10:06 AM
i said it once and i'll say it again: There's NO WAY AROD should be starting ahead of Crede in the ASG.

:rolleyes:

No way? Please. It isn't like we're comparing Crede to Aubry Huff or someone like that. A-Rod puts up numbers that make hm an All Star contender year in and year out.

1951Campbell
06-01-2006, 10:08 AM
"Captain Craps his pants when he gets in the playoffs"

Don't forget "Capt. Slap the Ball Out of Arroyo's Hand Because That's What 'Class Acts' Do."

Jjav829
06-01-2006, 10:09 AM
Don't think for a second that Ozzie isn't going to be getting his guys in that game. Period.

He might not have a chance to if the starters are all Yankees and Red Sox. I would guess that a Sox player might make it based on the player voting.

WizardsofOzzie
06-01-2006, 10:11 AM
been visiting this site for a LONG time....and there is no second coming of "hangar the great"

just real passionate about the White Sox that's all.

:tealtutor:

Close though!!

WizardsofOzzie
06-01-2006, 10:14 AM
He might not have a chance to if the starters are all Yankees and Red Sox. I would guess that a Sox player might make it based on the player voting.

from whitesox.com

Ozzie Guillen only needed a quick glance at the first round of American League All-Star fan balloting, released Wednesday afternoon, to get an early idea as to the makeup of the team he will be running in Pittsburgh.
"I'm going to manage the Red Sox and the Yankees," said Guillen with a laugh


Guillen also made it very clear as to where his allegiances will fall on his personal picks to fill out the roster.
"When I have the opportunity to pick, there are going to be a lot of White Sox uniforms in [there]," Guillen said. "If they give me a chance, I'll take 10 White Sox. "They will be ripping [me] all over the country -- 'Look at Ozzie picking his own players.' But it happens every year. If I don't pick the right guys, they still will be blasting [me] all over the place."

Jerko
06-01-2006, 10:18 AM
Is it just me or does Thome25 kind of sound like the second coming of Hangar.....

I thought so too at first, but that kind of venom from Hangar is usually saved for a team not named the Yankees or Red Sox.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 10:23 AM
I thought so too at first, but that kind of venom from Hangar is usually saved for a team not named the Yankees or Red Sox.


I'm a white sox fan here on the east coast all of my venom is still reserved for the flubs but i'm sick and tired if the "espn yankees/red sox propaganda" here on the east coast

Thome25
06-01-2006, 10:24 AM
:tealtutor:

Close though!!

thanks

Thome25
06-01-2006, 10:28 AM
:rolleyes:

No way? Please. It isn't like we're comparing Crede to Aubry Huff or someone like that. A-Rod puts up numbers that make hm an All Star contender year in and year out.

no we're not comparing crede to aubrey huff but, to enlighten you a little; i compare the Crede/AROD situation to the Ventura/Wade Boggs situation:

Ventura got voted out every year when he was more than deserving by a douche bag player just like Crede is more than deserving (he outplays AROD defensively on his worst days oh! and he can hit the ball a little too.) and it looks like he's gonna get voted out by another douche bag yankee.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 10:31 AM
from whitesox.com

Ozzie Guillen only needed a quick glance at the first round of American League All-Star fan balloting, released Wednesday afternoon, to get an early idea as to the makeup of the team he will be running in Pittsburgh.
"I'm going to manage the Red Sox and the Yankees," said Guillen with a laugh


Guillen also made it very clear as to where his allegiances will fall on his personal picks to fill out the roster.
"When I have the opportunity to pick, there are going to be a lot of White Sox uniforms in [there]," Guillen said. "If they give me a chance, I'll take 10 White Sox. "They will be ripping [me] all over the country -- 'Look at Ozzie picking his own players.' But it happens every year. If I don't pick the right guys, they still will be blasting [me] all over the place."

if too many yankees and red sox make the roster that will handcuff ozzie and he won't be able to pick that many white sox players because at least one player from each team has to be represented. the rest of the roster will have to be players from 12 other teams.

Jose.Contreras
06-01-2006, 10:39 AM
Thome25, I have a very simple question for you. Forget about salary for a second and answer this question.

If you're the White Sox would you trade Joe Crede for Alex Rodriguez straight up right now?

If your answer is no than you are offically insane.

I mean COME ON! No offense, but You're argument makes you sound like a dillusuaonal Cubs fan trying to argue why the Cubs are better than the White Sox right now. Reality, man.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 10:48 AM
Thome25, I have a very simple question for you. Forget about salary for a second and answer this question.

If you're the White Sox would you trade Joe Crede for Alex Rodriguez straight up right now?

If your answer is no than you are offically insane.

I mean COME ON! No offense, but You're argument makes you sound like a dillusuaonal Cubs fan trying to argue why the Cubs are better than the White Sox right now. Reality, man.

1.) don't ever question my love of the white sox PERIOD. i am a die hard fan and have love d the white sox my entire life.


2.) My answer IS no to the AROD for Crede trade because Crede has proved so far to be a better clutch player in the playoffs (which has NOTHING to do with salary)


3.) this does not make me insane and i would have to question you on this issue because Do you honestly think the White Sox would want/need a whiney little primadonna ass-clown like AROD on this team which by the way is a self proclaimed "family in the clubhouse"?!

Looks like you've been spending too much time up there in wrigleyvill yourself because the White Sox do not need a "Shammy Soso" type in their clubhouse or on the field for that matter.

SoxSpeed22
06-01-2006, 10:49 AM
Statistically, Jose Lopez is the best hitting second baseman in the AL, but who the hell outside of Seattle knows who he is? It's a damn popularity contest.
Once Contreras starts the game, it should be an AL win.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 11:03 AM
I'm not exactly sure how this became a Crede VS AROD debate because it was meant to be more of a "END YANKEES/RED SOX NATION" thread trying to push our White Sox over the hump in the all star voting.


oh well i guess Crede VS AROD is good too.......

soxfanaticpaulie
06-01-2006, 11:16 AM
Looking at these totals really made me sick. A Yankee / Red Sox at every position?!

Pathetic. My esteem of baseball fans around the country is at an all time low at this moment. All people do is watch ESPN and see who they are talking about. God forbid they pick up a newspaper, or go on the internet and see how other teams and players are doing, or watch out of market games and actually follow the damn sport.

Even if you play fantasy baseball you learn about other guys, and you watch them when you get the chance.

What's even worse is whoever said it is right. It WILL completely handcuff Ozzie's roster decisions. 1 player from every team will go, and unless things change quickly, only 2 teams will be represented on the balloting.

Gonna be sickening watching Contreras pitching surrounded by Red Sox and Yankees. He might have a violent flashback or something...:rolleyes:

Jose.Contreras
06-01-2006, 11:19 AM
1.) don't ever question my love of the white sox PERIOD. i am a die hard fan and have love d the white sox my entire life.


2.) My answer IS no to the AROD for Crede trade because Crede has proved so far to be a better clutch player in the playoffs (which has NOTHING to do with salary)


3.) this does not make me insane and i would have to question you on this issue because Do you honestly think the White Sox would want/need a whiney little primadonna ass-clown like AROD on this team which by the way is a self proclaimed "family in the clubhouse"?!

Looks like you've been spending too much time up there in wrigleyvill yourself because the White Sox do not need a "Shammy Soso" type in their clubhouse or on the field for that matter.

Read what I am saying, buddy. I am not questioning your love for the White Sox. I am just comparing your line of thinking to a dillusional Cub fan. I am not saying you're a Cub fan. It's just a comparison to your line of thinking.

And it turns out I am right. Your love for the White Sox is so great that it has blinded you into making you sound like a crazy-man

Look at it like this. And use your brain.....

Joe Crede had a great playoffs last year He played 12 games and was superb. And 52 games into the 2006 season Joe Crede has been very good offensivley (for the first time in his career, I might add) and fantastic on defense. He has a very bright future ahead of him. I am very pleased with how Crede is looking now.

With that said, YOU HAVE TO BE ONE STUPID S.O.B. to say that you wouldn't trade Joe Crede for A-Rod straight up. Alex Rodrihuez is on of the greatest players of all time and he is still in his friggin' prime. I mean the guy is phenomenal. So he hasn't had a great track record in the playoffs. SO WHAT? You're gonna justify not making this trade based on one playoff season (12 games for Crede) and 52 solid games in 2006!?!?! And we're talking 'bout trading our good young player for ALEX RODRIGUEZ and you wouldn't do it!?!? You're friggin nuts.

If you were a GM then you'd make Hawk Harrelson look like a genius. This is a joke, right? I can't believe I am actually having this argument. I am arguing with someone who wouldn't trade Joe Crede for Alex Rodriguez.

Please stop this madness. I understand taht there is a difference between opinion and fact. But I really don't think this is an opinion type argument. It's actually a fact that you trade Joe Crede for A-Rod if you're the White Sox. And I am talking about this trade as if salary doesn't factor in the trade. (which in real life it would. But obviously, I am trying to make a point to someone who is dillusional)

I don't wanna be offensive to you...... but ......YOU WOULDN'T TRADE JOE CREDE FOR A-ROD GIVEN THE CHANCE!!!!

What else can I say?

Thome25
06-01-2006, 11:20 AM
Looking at these totals really made me sick. A Yankee / Red Sox at every position?!

Pathetic. My esteem of baseball fans around the country is at an all time low at this moment. All people do is watch ESPN and see who they are talking about. God forbid they pick up a newspaper, or go on the internet and see how other teams and players are doing, or watch out of market games and actually follow the damn sport.

Even if you play fantasy baseball you learn about other guys, and you watch them when you get the chance.

What's even worse is whoever said it is right. It WILL completely handcuff Ozzie's roster decisions. 1 player from every team will go, and unless things change quickly, only 2 teams will be represented on the balloting.

Gonna be sickening watching Contreras pitching surrounded by Red Sox and Yankees. He might have a violent flashback or something...:rolleyes:


This was said perfectly.....the perfect post for this thread.....try living on the east coast trying not to live and breathe all this yankees and red sox propaganda.

all I have to say is: there is baseball (world series winning baseball even) west of pennsylvania.

WSox8404
06-01-2006, 11:24 AM
I thought so too at first, but that kind of venom from Hangar is usually saved for a team not named the Yankees or Red Sox.

Its the subtle similarities with the posts. You know the CAPS that appear out of nowhere and a few run on sentences for good measure....lol. And lets not forget Hangar is banned for a while. Maybe this IS Hangar.....uh oh...lol.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 11:28 AM
Read what I am saying, buddy. I am not questioning your love for the White Sox. I am just comparing your line of thinking to a dillusional Cub fan. I am not saying you're a Cub fan. It's just a comparison to your line of thinking.

And it turns out I am right. Your love for the White Sox is so great that it has blinded you into making you sound like a crazy-man

Look at it like this. And use your brain.....

Joe Crede had a great playoffs last year He played 12 games and was superb. And 52 games into the 2006 season Joe Crede has been very good offensivley (for the first time in his career, I might add) and fantastic on defense. He has a very bright future ahead of him. I am very pleased with how Crede is looking now.

With that said, YOU HAVE TO BE ONE STUPID S.O.B. to say that you wouldn't trade Joe Crede for A-Rod straight up. Alex Rodrihuez is on of the greatest players of all time and he is still in his friggin' prime. I mean the guy is phenomenal. So he hasn't had a great track record in the playoffs. SO WHAT? You're gonna justify not making this trade based on one playoff season (12 games for Crede) and 52 solid games in 2006!?!?! And we're talking 'bout trading our good young player for ALEX RODRIGUEZ and you wouldn't do it!?!? You're friggin nuts.

If you were a GM then you'd make Hawk Harrelson look like a genius. This is a joke, right? I can't believe I am actually having this argument. I am arguing with someone who wouldn't trade Joe Crede for Alex Rodriguez.

Please stop this madness. I understand taht there is a difference between opinion and fact. But I really don't think this is an opinion type argument. It's actually a fact that you trade Joe Crede for A-Rod if you're the White Sox. And I am talking about this trade as if salary doesn't factor in the trade. (which in real life it would. But obviously, I am trying to make a point to someone who is dillusional)

I don't wanna be offensive to you...... but ......YOU WOULDN'T TRADE JOE CREDE FOR A-ROD GIVEN THE CHANCE!!!!

What else can I say?

You questioned my love for the White Sox by comparing me to a Freaking Cubs fan. You as a White Sox fan should know that you don't even mention "Cubs Fan" to a White Sox fan when referring to their love for said team.


As for the AROD for crede thing this part of the conversation is through on my end. It's obvious that you're NEVER going to realize what a CANCER AROD would be on a great team with great chemistry like the white sox. You as so called self respecting white sox fan should know this, and if for some reason you got out of the brain-cramp that you're in wouldn't EVEN want AROD anywhere near this team let alone be talking about trading for him.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 11:30 AM
Its the subtle similarities with the posts. You know the CAPS that appear out of nowhere and a few run on sentences for good measure....lol. And lets not forget Hangar is banned for a while. Maybe this IS Hangar.....uh oh...lol.


No it's NOT hangar......just a LONG TIME WHITE SOX fan who is a long time visitor to this site....and at long last a new member of this site!!

viagracat
06-01-2006, 11:31 AM
Wow, newbies getting into a brawl...cool. Time for the old-timers to step aside I guess. :D:

If Crede keeps this up, he WILL be an All-Star starter soon and for a long time. But in this case I have to agree A-Rod is still the man at third. For now. Ozzie will pick plenty of his players as reserves just like La Russa once packed his teams with Cardinals, etc, so expect plenty of White Sox representation in the game.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2006, 11:35 AM
Thome 25:

I can only speak for myself but it doesn't bottom me one iota regarding anything in the All Popularity All Star farce.

If I had anything to say about it NO Sox players would be in the sham. They need the rest more.

The All Star Farce lost its luster when fans were allowed to start picking players.

I guess it's not totally the fans voting that pisses me off, but that they can vote 25 or 50 times.

One fan...one vote. Period.

Also like the late Billy Martin said, not all teams deserve to have a player on it.

Lip

Mr.1Dog
06-01-2006, 11:36 AM
:deadhorse:

soxfanaticpaulie
06-01-2006, 11:48 AM
Just chill out Thome25...if that IS your real name...:cool: move on from the A-rod / Crede arguement, its over. Give Crede another year or 2 hitting in the .290-.300 range, and people will know his name. Part of being a Sox fan is having enough knowledge and respect for the game that you wouldn't want every position to be a Sox if they don't derserve it, just like I am appauled at the all Yankee/Red Sox lineup.

Anyway, back to the thread topic....

Does anyone think that it is time to change the voting format?

I'm torn...the fans voting for the Starting Lineup is a cool thing, but now that the game matters for something (which is stupid), the best players should be on the field, not the most popular.

Perhaps somewhere down the road it will change so that the fans vote players in and the Manager chooses the rest of the team, and the they determine who deserves to start? I haven't thought out a good plan, but I'm sure someone here has...

Personally, I think the All-Star game should be made back into an exhibition, and the team with the best record in baseball should get home field advantage. They play 162 games, make them all matter. I know, some would argue with that saying that the different leagues effect records, and interleague play is not enough to balance that out. I can live with that arguement, it's a decent one. But failing that what do you do? I don't like the switch every years system, home field should be a reward, not a coin toss...Perhaps it could just be the league that won the previous World Series? The Champion league is champion until it is dethroned. I think that might be pretty cool.

I would like to see the long season mean more though. A lot has been lost due to the extended playoffs with the Wild Card spots. The Wild Card and Divisional reconfiguration has been good for the game IMHO, simply because more teams are in the hunt for longer, and that keeps fans interested. But, they play 162 games, and teams that are .500 (See last year's Padres), and teams that come in 2nd place make the playoffs. Either make the games mean something, or shorten the season...

Jose.Contreras
06-01-2006, 11:52 AM
Alex Rodriguez is not a cancer. Gove me an example of him being a bad guy on or off the field. I can't think of a single one. Some people perceive him to be a cancer soley because the media in New York is ridiculously hard on him. The guy averages .315 45 HR and 130 RBI. That's his AVERAGE SEASON!

I think the clubhouse cancer/chemistry issue is overrated. I mean what about Manny Ramierz? He is considered a cancer/bad club house guy/ ego-maniac. Yet, if memory serves correctly HE WON A WORLD SERIES IN 2004.

So you're gonna sit here and tell me you think the Sox would be in a worse position if they traded Joe Crede for A-Rod simply because A-Rod is a clubhouse cancer??? There is no evidence of A-Rod being a bad teammate in any way. Period. Now you can argue about A-Rod's postseason failures, but I wouldn't put that much stock into it. Especially not enough stock to justify NOT trading Joe Crede for him. I mean Barry Bonds was a notorius bad post-season performer for YEARS yet in 2002 he hit .355, 8 HR, 18 runs and 16 RBI in the postseason. And Bonds was about as close as you can get to winning the entire thing. The Giants eventally lost in 7 games.

What the hell does that tell you??? It tells you that A-Rod could very easily go out and bat .355, hit 8 HR , 18 runs and 16 RBI himself this postseason. And he could also win the world series while he's at it.

The bottom line is that clubhouse cancer, and postseason under-performing do not apply enough to justify NOT trading Joe Crede for A-Rod straight up.

You rationale for not making this trade is so far off it's scary. Again, this shouldn't even be an argument.

gbergman
06-01-2006, 11:52 AM
been visiting this site for a LONG time....and there is no second coming of "hangar the great"

just real passionate about the White Sox that's all.:tealpolice:
We shall see if he is around once hangar returns

spiffie
06-01-2006, 11:53 AM
The only thing I'll say about the idea that player voting would make for a better system is remember who votes on Gold Gloves every year and what our collective opinion of those is.

Mr.1Dog
06-01-2006, 11:54 AM
I would like to see the defending World Series champs, whoever it might be, play against an the all star team from the opposing league and keep the league with the best record at the end of the regular season have homefield advantage in the Series.

gbergman
06-01-2006, 11:55 AM
plus the moids can run ip checks i believe and if he was using Hangars ip then on could only assume it is Hangar and that he is breaking the rules. A couple week ban is unecessary to make a new screename hangar if thats you

soxfanaticpaulie
06-01-2006, 11:56 AM
I would like to see the defending World Series champs, whoever it might be, play against an the all star team from the opposing league and keep the league with the best record at the end of the regular season have homefield advantage in the Series.

Somehow I think that a team trying to defend its championship MIGHT have a problem with playing 1 more game than everyone else...Think about pitching especially...

Lip Man 1
06-01-2006, 11:56 AM
Spiffie:

My point is that the players actually see ALL of those competing against them...have the fans who vote (apparently 25 times) seen every player?

How many fans in Seattle say, even know anything about the players from the Devil Rays, let alone actually see them enough to make a judgement?

Is it perfect...no, but I'll go with a guy who actually knows a little bit about the game as opposed to folks (particularly stat-geeks) who THINK they know something about it.

Lip

WizardsofOzzie
06-01-2006, 11:58 AM
Wow, newbies getting into a brawl...cool. Time for the old-timers to step aside I guess. :D:

If Crede keeps this up, he WILL be an All-Star starter soon and for a long time. But in this case I have to agree A-Rod is still the man at third. For now. Ozzie will pick plenty of his players as reserves just like La Russa once packed his teams with Cardinals, etc, so expect plenty of White Sox representation in the game.

On a semi-related note, we have Thome25 and Jose. Contreras getting into it on this site so it brings up the question. Who would win that battle in a baseball game. The cont at his current dominating form or the monster that is Jim Thome?

itsnotrequired
06-01-2006, 12:00 PM
Probably about time to break out this bad boy.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2740

viagracat
06-01-2006, 12:31 PM
I think the one fan-one vote idea is good, but I don't see how it could be enforced...

Chip Z'nuff
06-01-2006, 12:43 PM
I think the one fan-one vote idea is good, but I don't see how it could be enforced...
You mean to tell me people may actually vote ususing aliases?

Thome25
06-01-2006, 12:49 PM
:tealpolice:
We shall see if he is around once hangar returns

I guarantee you'll see us both at the same time and then realize that we're not the same person. I REALLY AM a newbie to this site:D:

itsnotrequired
06-01-2006, 12:50 PM
no we're not comparing crede to aubrey huff but, to enlighten you a little; i compare the Crede/AROD situation to the Ventura/Wade Boggs situation:

Ventura got voted out every year when he was more than deserving by a douche bag player just like Crede is more than deserving (he outplays AROD defensively on his worst days oh! and he can hit the ball a little too.) and it looks like he's gonna get voted out by another douche bag yankee.
I never said Crede wasn't deserving but to suggest that ARod is undeserving is madness. The same applies to Boggs/Ventura. From 1990 (Ventura's first full season) to 1996 (last year Boggs got the All Star), Ventura got it once (1992) and Boggs got it every other year. Ventura hit more HRs and had more RBIs but had a much lower average (typically 30 to 40 points), lower OBP, more strikeouts, fewer doubles, etc. Ventura was a power hitter and Boggs was a contact hitter. In terms of fielding, Boggs typically had fewer errors and a higher fielding percentage. I'm not taking anything away from Ventura but to suggest he was "robbed" by an inferior player is ludicrous.

Past performance plays a big part in the voting as well. From 1983 to 1991, Boggs finished no less than fifth best in batting average. He led the league in many other offensive categories during those years (hits, doubles, OBP, etc.). Unfair as it sounds, players are often rewarded with All Star positions later in the careers for past performances. It's like the position is theirs as long as they remain halfway decent. Heck, Hank Aaron was an All Star in 1975 and nothing he did that season warranted him being out there.

Chip Z'nuff
06-01-2006, 01:08 PM
I guarantee you'll see us both at the same time and then realize that we're not the same person. I REALLY AM a newbie to this site:D:
You know... we are missing a person to do media watches, would you mind giving us a daily count of cubs and sox stories from the tib and suntimes?

Paulwny
06-01-2006, 01:11 PM
Past performance plays a big part in the voting as well. From 1983 to 1991, Boggs finished no less than fifth best in batting average. He led the league in many other offensive categories during those years (hits, doubles, OBP, etc.). Unfair as it sounds, players are often rewarded with All Star positions later in the careers for past performances. It's like the position is theirs as long as they remain halfway decent. Heck, Hank Aaron was an All Star in 1975 and nothing he did that season warranted him being out there.


This has always been the case. Many fans will vote for a player who was an All Star for many years and a possible HOF inductee over a player who is having an good/great half a season. Many fans rather see a player who has been a perennial All Star over someone they think may be having a fluke half a season.

longshot7
06-01-2006, 01:56 PM
so let's let this serve as a reminder to get over to mlb.com and VOTE!!!!

You get 25 votes per email address, so go to it!

Let's do for the rest of the team what we did for Pods last year.

viagracat
06-01-2006, 02:01 PM
You mean to tell me people may actually vote ususing aliases?

Well, we do live in Chicago; "Vote early and often"

Lip Man 1
06-01-2006, 02:44 PM
Viagra:

I don't know either but everyone (even kids) has (or should have) a Social Security Card # perhaps they could enforce it that way.

Lip

Chip Z'nuff
06-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Viagra:

I don't know either but everyone (even kids) has (or should have) a Social Security Card # perhaps they could enforce it that way.

Lip
They could also go back to the old way and just remove voting from the internet.

ilsox7
06-01-2006, 02:51 PM
Viagra:

I don't know either but everyone (even kids) has (or should have) a Social Security Card # perhaps they could enforce it that way.

Lip

Or they could do the smart thing and eliminate fans from the process.

southside rocks
06-01-2006, 04:06 PM
Nat Whalen, in the Daily Southtown, says the Sox players are bothered by the early vote results:

Where are you Sox fans?

...No one in the top 2 at any position? No one within 43,000 votes of first place? Really? This is the best the South Siders get? And don’t kid yourselves, the players do care. They were talking about it before Wednesday’s game while sitting around the table—and they were somewhat upset with the turnout even on the record.
“To be the World Champions and to have the number of players on our club that are playing well and playing in the big city, I’m surprised nobody’s even considered," Jermaine Dye said. "Well, they’re considered, but not in the top.”

http://blogs.dailysouthtown.com/whalen/

itsnotrequired
06-01-2006, 04:10 PM
Nat Whalen, in the Daily Southtown, says the Sox players are bothered by the early vote results:

Where are you Sox fans?

...No one in the top 2 at any position? No one within 43,000 votes of first place? Really? This is the best the South Siders get? And don’t kid yourselves, the players do care. They were talking about it before Wednesday’s game while sitting around the table—and they were somewhat upset with the turnout even on the record.
“To be the World Champions and to have the number of players on our club that are playing well and playing in the big city, I’m surprised nobody’s even considered," Jermaine Dye said. "Well, they’re considered, but not in the top.”

http://blogs.dailysouthtown.com/whalen/

Yes, White Sox fans are to blame for this Travesty of Justice.

:rolleyes:

Get with the program, Nat.

Chip Z'nuff
06-01-2006, 04:14 PM
I just tried to vote and alas another cubune conspiracy! They must have a list of all ip address on the south side cause no matter how many times I type in a verification code, it tells me the verification code was entered incorrectly.
****in tribune...

viagracat
06-01-2006, 04:23 PM
Viagra:

I don't know either but everyone (even kids) has (or should have) a Social Security Card # perhaps they could enforce it that way.

Lip

I thought for awhile voting could be done only by the Internet, where chances of multiple voting could be perhaps reduced, but I guess since not everybody has access to a computer that wouldn't be fair. At least that's what you would hear.

And as vigilant as the mods are here, that didn't prevent various incarnations of Twins and inta from posting here (at least temporarily) so that aspect is probably futile anyway. Ballot stuffing is inevitable no matter how the voting's done I guess...:(:

I personally wouldn't mind All-Star selections made by the BBWA, especially since the game now matters. But as long as MLB is still trying to court new fans, that will never happen.

All I can say is; get out there and vote.

Thome25
06-01-2006, 06:25 PM
To All White Sox fans who have voted and to those who urged other White Sox fans to vote on this thread I applaud you. You deserve credit.

Now I ask that we all go out and stuff the ballot boxes. Do it "The Chicago Way" vote early and vote often. Lets do what we did for Pods last year for the whole team. Lets show the east coast, ESPN, and most of all the Yankees and Red Sox and their fans what we're made of. Let's show them that we're sick and tired of their stuff and we ain't gonna take it anymore. Let's how them we're DIE HARD WHITE SOX FANS.

Use fake aliases online. Give ballots to your grandma, mother, father, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, anyone really and tell them to "vote White Sox"

Remember how it felt when the players gave us the "Ultimate Prize" by winning the WORLD SERIES?! Most of us stil feel it and will feel it for the rest of our lives.

Now's our chance as fans to give back a little something to the players. Now's our chance to show our love for them.
Now's our chance to show them what it feels like to be honored as one of baseball's best on the same stage with today's greats. The ball is in our court. They truly deserve it.

itsnotrequired
06-01-2006, 06:45 PM
Still yelling, I see...

Thome25
06-01-2006, 06:48 PM
Still yelling, I see...

Nope not yelling....put the post in bold/italic so that it would stand out more.
because it is a serious "from the heart message" to all white sox fans.

Chips
06-01-2006, 06:56 PM
Yeah, maybe there are so many Red Sox and Yankees leading the vote because of the size of their fan base. The Yankees play in the largest market in the country, they own that city. Boston has fans all throughout the Northeast and the rest of the country. The White Sox do not have that same national following as these clubs.

I have no problem with those guys helping the American League win the game.

There is no way in hell, Joe Crede should start over A-Rod. No way in hell.

Mohoney
06-01-2006, 11:47 PM
I agree. In fact, how about adding the DH to all NL games, and do away with automatic outs at the bottom of every NL lineup.

Amen.

Mohoney
06-02-2006, 12:08 AM
I personally wouldn't mind All-Star selections made by the BBWA, especially since the game now matters.

No way. I would rather have the apes in Brookfield Zoo pull names out of a feces-laden cowboy hat than have poindexter baseball writers involved in the process.

These turds STILL won't let the 5th-winningest lefty in history into the Hall, and I'll be damned if I would take the vote away from fans and give it to these geeks.

fuzzy_patters
06-02-2006, 12:28 AM
They should do away with the internet voting. When I was a kid, smaller market players like George Brett and Bo Jackson started all star games, but that was before internet voting. The ballparks of the 30 teams all hold similar amounts (roughly 38,000-50,000). This means that each team had a decent shot of getting their players elected as long as they won often enough to draw consistent crowds before internet voting. However, with internt voting, teams can get hometown votes from fans that are not at the games. This gives an enormous advantage to the teams with national fanbases such as Saint Louis, Boston, and the Yankees.

Why should we care? The All Star game is supposed to be a showcase of the best players in baseball. It used to be an opportunity to see the great players that you ordinarily do not get to see play. It was the only opportunity for a National League fan to see players such as Brett, Harmon Killebrew, or our own Nellie Fox. American League fans got a rare opportunity to see guys like Gwinn, Pete Rose, or Roberto Clemente. If those guys had been playing today, fans would have been stuck watching the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, and possibly Cubs at their positions. Players that do not play on teams that have this broad following do not have much of a chance if some frontrunner fan in Nebraska is voting for the Yankees all day.

StockdaleForVeep
06-02-2006, 01:58 AM
I see u feel bolder lettering will let us feel your angst

When teams buy all star players, they tend to be voted in all star games

TDog
06-02-2006, 02:19 AM
Viagra:

I don't know either but everyone (even kids) has (or should have) a Social Security Card # perhaps they could enforce it that way.

Lip

Are you aware of the seriousness of ID theft in the world today? I don't even have my social security number on my driver's license.

This isn't a big deal. Starters who don't belong won't be in the game long. MLB doesn't care if people vote multiple times. They encourage it with the Internet procedure. You always hear about how elections aren't supposed to be a popularity contest. Well, this is a popularity contest. I don't care about the All-Star Game. I care about the White Sox season.

It wouldn't bother me if no White Sox play in the All-Star Game. I certainly don't want to see any Sox pitch in the game.

RealMenWearBlack
06-02-2006, 02:52 AM
Maybe there could be a system where you vote online once for each ticket you have bought for the season using the bar code number as verification?

RealMenWearBlack
06-02-2006, 02:56 AM
With that said, YOU HAVE TO BE ONE STUPID S.O.B. to say that you wouldn't trade Joe Crede for A-Rod straight up. Alex Rodrihuez is on of the greatest players of all time and he is still in his friggin' prime. I mean the guy is phenomenal. So he hasn't had a great track record in the playoffs. SO WHAT? You're gonna justify not making this trade based on one playoff season (12 games for Crede) and 52 solid games in 2006!?!?! And we're talking 'bout trading our good young player for ALEX RODRIGUEZ and you wouldn't do it!?!? You're friggin nuts.

I wouldn't trade Joe Crede for Alex Rodriguez at this point because Joe Crede will probably make less than 50% than ARod. I'd rather strengthen our bullpen with that money.

IlliniSox4Life
06-02-2006, 03:23 AM
I wouldn't trade Joe Crede for Alex Rodriguez at this point because Joe Crede will probably make less than 50% than ARod. I'd rather strengthen our bullpen with that money.

I don't think his argument was taking into effect salaries. Crede is making 2.675 million this year. Arod is making over 25 million this year. Obviously Crede is a much better value, he's making almost 1/10 of what Arod is. However, just straight up, player for player, taking nothing into account but performance, you have to go with Arod. He's only 2 years older than Crede, yet he has 360 more HRs, 986 more RBI, and 10 straight seasons hitting over .285 (7 of those over .300)(this would be Crede's first if he keeps it up). Arod has stolen 226 more bases (230 to 4). Arod has 3 times the walks this season as Crede. Arod is one of two young guys playing today with a shot at the home run record (Pujols being the other).

This isn't directed to you, but to everyone who thinks Crede is a better 3rd baseman hands down than Arod (I heard some of it in the chat during the game):

ARODS CAREER BATTING AVERAGE(.307) IS HIGHER THAN CREDE'S CAREER ON BASE PERCENTAGE (.306).

ARODS CAREER OBP IS .053 POINTS HIGHER THAN CREDE'S OBP THIS SEASON.

As far as defense goes, I won't argue if you want to say that Crede is better defensively now than Arod, but his defense is marginaly better at best. Arod is still an excellent defensive 3B, one of the top 3 or 4 in the league.

Tell me what you want about how improved Crede is and he hasn't had as much time in the bigs or whatever, but the fact is, Arod has been doing it much longer than Crede for quite some time. I by no means dislike Joe Crede, in fact, he's probably one of my favorite couple of players on the team, but for god's sakes, he's had a good end of 2005 and start of 2006. That doesn't suddenly make him a two-time MVP. Common sense, please people.

Thome25
06-02-2006, 04:26 PM
Regarding the Crede for AROD debate, I think alot of the posters are focusing on ARODS numbers too much.

I also think that the 2005 White Sox proved that a true team doesn't need players with huge numbers.

How many rings do the yankees have with AROD as their 3b?!
Last time I checked the answer was NONE.

Now, how many rings do the White Sox have with crede as their 3b?!
Crede was a HUGE factor in the White Sox winning their first world series in 88 years.

Now, if you take crede off the 2005 white sox and replace him with AROD I seriously don't think they win the 2005 world series (and if they do they have a much tougher time doing it.) because you would also be removing all of crede's clutch defensive plays and clutch hits in the playoffs.

Better yet, the white sox were in the running for AROD before he signed with the rangers. If they sign him then, I believe they would NOT have won the 2005 world series because there wouldn't have been any money left for pitching or anything else for that matter in the future.

itsnotrequired
06-02-2006, 04:31 PM
Regarding the Crede for AROD debate, I think alot of the posters are focusing on ARODS numbers too much.

I also think that the 2005 White Sox proved that a true team doesn't need players with huge numbers.

How many rings do the yankees have with AROD as their 3b?!
Last time I checked the answer was NONE.

Now, how many rings do the White Sox have with crede as their 3b?!
Crede was a HUGE factor in the White Sox winning their first world series in 88 years.

Now, if you take crede off the 2005 white sox and replace him with AROD I seriously don't think they win the 2005 world series (and if they do they have a much tougher time doing it.) because you would also be removing all of crede's clutch defensive plays and clutch hits in the playoffs.

Better yet, the white sox were in the running for AROD before he signed with the rangers. If they sign him then, I believe they would NOT have won the 2005 world series because there wouldn't have been any money left for pitching or anything else for that matter in the future.

So you want to reward a 2005 performance with a 2006 All Star spot?

:rolleyes:

Crede is a fine third baseman but as long as ARod keeps putting up the numbers he does, the AL third base All Star spot will be his. The spot is ARod's to lose.

IlliniSox4Life
06-02-2006, 05:01 PM
Regarding the Crede for AROD debate, I think alot of the posters are focusing on ARODS numbers too much.
I'm sorry, but isn't the All Star Team about numbers? For the most part, shouldn't the guy with the best numbers be up there?

I also think that the 2005 White Sox proved that a true team doesn't need players with huge numbers.
A lot of our players had huge numbers. What are you talking about? Our pitching staff had amazing numbers last year. The only thing they proved is that you don't need to pay Arod's salary to get those numbers.

How many rings do the yankees have with AROD as their 3b?!
Last time I checked the answer was NONE.

Now, how many rings do the White Sox have with crede as their 3b?!
Crede was a HUGE factor in the White Sox winning their first world series in 88 years.
Well Garland was huge for us last year too. Does that mean he should get a spot over someone who hasn't won a world series?


Now, if you take crede off the 2005 white sox and replace him with AROD I seriously don't think they win the 2005 world series (and if they do they have a much tougher time doing it.) because you would also be removing all of crede's clutch defensive plays and clutch hits in the playoffs.
That's ridiculous to say. Offensively Arod has much better numbers especially when it comes to power and OBO. For all you know with Arod in there they wouldn't have needed clutch plays, they would have been winning by even more. As far as defense goes, Arod is an excellent defensive third baseman. He could make a lot of the plays Crede does.


Better yet, the white sox were in the running for AROD before he signed with the rangers. If they sign him then, I believe they would NOT have won the 2005 world series because there wouldn't have been any money left for pitching or anything else for that matter in the future.
He has a huge salary, so what? We're not arguing value here, we're arguing performance. Crede makes 1/10 of what Arod does. Of course Crede is a better value. Arod puts up better numbers though. Crede could get the vote in a year or two over ARod, but he hasn't earned it yet.

soxruleEP
06-02-2006, 05:28 PM
I just think Crede is a better all around player than Arod PERIOD.

:o:

Thome25
06-04-2006, 06:14 AM
To illinisox4life:

Alot of our players did not have huge numbers in 2005. Were you watching the same team?! We didn't have a MVP-caliber player who put up the types of numbers that a Pujols, Bonds(from a few years ago), AROD, Or even Thomas in his prime.

When you bring up garland, you're talking apples and oranges here.....we're talkin about a debate between players that actually deserve to go to the ASG.

AROD really has proven himself in the playoffs the way crede has. Seriously though, when has AROD proven that he could put the yankees up by as you say "even more". What makes you think that he could do for the white sox what he hasn't been able to do for the yankees?!


In this thread, we've been debating if we would trade Crede for AROD...to me that INCLUDES overall performance AND value.

For those of you still saying that they would trade crede for AROD answer me this:

More often than not, the teams that win championships DO not have one primadonna MVP-caliber player that makes MVP-caliber money and puts up MVP-caliber numbers.

How many rings do the Yankees/Rangers/Mariners have with AROD?!
How many rings do the Giants have with Bonds?!
How many rings did the White Sox have with Frank Thomas in his prime?! (when he was putting up MVP-type numbers.)
How many rings do the Cardinals have with Pujols?! (and don't say he hasn't had a chance yet because he has had his chances to win one so far.)
How many rings do the Reds/Mariners have with Griffey Jr.?!
How many rings did the flubs have with Sosa?!
how many Rings do the Yankees/A's have with Giambi?!
How many rings do the Rangers have with Juan-gone in his prime?!

Now for the teams WITHOUT one of these types of players:
2005 White Sox
The yankees in the 90's when they won all those rings.
2003 Marlins
2002 Angels
2001 D'backs

Do I have to go on?!

My point is the White Sox and their fans shouldn't want nor do they need a player like AROD. Crede has been much more than an all-star to this team.

Thome25
06-04-2006, 06:42 AM
So you want to reward a 2005 performance with a 2006 All Star spot?

:rolleyes:

Crede is a fine third baseman but as long as ARod keeps putting up the numbers he does, the AL third base All Star spot will be his. The spot is ARod's to lose.

This debate has been about if we would TRADE crede for AROD.

But yeah, now that you mention it I do think that in the whole farce that is the ASG voting PAST PERFORMANCE is the deciding factor for most fans.

So by definition, someone's 2005 performance would dictate a 2006 all star birth. But, fans have also voted inferior players in for sentimentality reasons.
Therefore while some of you may think AROD deserves the all star birth over Crede (which I don't and NEVER will.) Crede should at the very least be the sentimental favorite.

itsnotrequired
06-04-2006, 08:32 AM
This debate has been about if we would TRADE crede for AROD.
It has been? I thought this thread was all about your bold and italics-laced rants berating people for choosing ARod over Crede in the All Star game.

So by definition, someone's 2005 performance would dictate a 2006 all star birth. But, fans have also voted inferior players in for sentimentality reasons. Therefore while some of you may think AROD deserves the all star birth over Crede (which I don't and NEVER will.) Crede should at the very least be the sentimental favorite.
So should there be a "QED" after this last paragraph? A player's 2005 performace dictating a 2006 All Star berth is not a definition, even if that's what a lot of voters take into consideration. As for Crede being a "sentimental favorite", I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. It isn't like Crede is some old salty dog that has been a fan favorite for years. ARod has more than double the amount of playing time as Crede.

Thome25
06-04-2006, 09:15 AM
It has been? I thought this thread was all about your bold and italics-laced rants berating people for choosing ARod over Crede in the All Star game.


So should there be a "QED" after this last paragraph? A player's 2005 performace dictating a 2006 All Star berth is not a definition, even if that's what a lot of voters take into consideration. As for Crede being a "sentimental favorite", I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. It isn't like Crede is some old salty dog that has been a fan favorite for years. ARod has more than double the amount of playing time as Crede.

Have you been reading the same thread as everyone else or what? I stared this thread trying to get those who haven't voted to vote and to get the ones who already voted to vote MORE.

Somehow it became this Crede vs AROD debate simple because I stated that I thought Crede should go to the all-star game ahead of AROD. which by the way is MY opinion.

Not that it matters to me or anything but if you would've actually read the posts, you would have noticed that people started BERATING ME because I chose crede over arod in a trade AND for the all star game. I was simply defending myself for stating my opinion. i was also trying to make a case for why I have this opinion.

as for the bold and italics, i've never seen anyone take such exception to the use of them. Maybe you should start a new thread so you can spend time complaining about the use/misuse of bold/italics/large lettering.

This thread was started with the best of intentions so that we could have some intelligent conversation regarding the white sox in the all-star game.

I also meant that crede should be the "sentimental favorite" for WHITE SOX fans because of his performances in the 2005 playoffs/world series. NOT because he is some "seasoned veteran" on his way to the HOF or anything or a "salty dog" as you put it.

cbone
06-04-2006, 09:41 AM
Do you get to give yourself a WSI tomato award on a thread you started, if most of the posts are yours? :smile:

Arod for Crede in a minute and I love Clutch Crede and what he's done for this team. ARod's numbers are ridiculous.

Jose.Contreras
06-04-2006, 10:30 AM
I don't think his argument was taking into effect salaries. Crede is making 2.675 million this year. Arod is making over 25 million this year. Obviously Crede is a much better value, he's making almost 1/10 of what Arod is. However, just straight up, player for player, taking nothing into account but performance, you have to go with Arod. He's only 2 years older than Crede, yet he has 360 more HRs, 986 more RBI, and 10 straight seasons hitting over .285 (7 of those over .300)(this would be Crede's first if he keeps it up). Arod has stolen 226 more bases (230 to 4). Arod has 3 times the walks this season as Crede. Arod is one of two young guys playing today with a shot at the home run record (Pujols being the other).

This isn't directed to you, but to everyone who thinks Crede is a better 3rd baseman hands down than Arod (I heard some of it in the chat during the game):

ARODS CAREER BATTING AVERAGE(.307) IS HIGHER THAN CREDE'S CAREER ON BASE PERCENTAGE (.306).

ARODS CAREER OBP IS .053 POINTS HIGHER THAN CREDE'S OBP THIS SEASON.

As far as defense goes, I won't argue if you want to say that Crede is better defensively now than Arod, but his defense is marginaly better at best. Arod is still an excellent defensive 3B, one of the top 3 or 4 in the league.

Tell me what you want about how improved Crede is and he hasn't had as much time in the bigs or whatever, but the fact is, Arod has been doing it much longer than Crede for quite some time. I by no means dislike Joe Crede, in fact, he's probably one of my favorite couple of players on the team, but for god's sakes, he's had a good end of 2005 and start of 2006. That doesn't suddenly make him a two-time MVP. Common sense, please people.

Thank You. Someone else here actually has common sense! And you're right, I wasn't taking salary into consideration. I Thome25 must have Mad Cow disease or something. He is losing his mind if he thinks Crede is better to have than A-Rod.

Thome25
06-04-2006, 10:35 AM
Thank You. Someone else here actually has common sense! And you're right, I wasn't taking salary into consideration. I Thome25 must have Mad Cow disease or something. He is losing his mind if he thinks Crede is better to have than A-Rod.


I'm not saying crede is better that AROD stats-wise. He has better intangibles that AROD. he may not be better than arod (i think he is better than arod but that's just my opinion and you don't have to live with it.)

But, ATTN: he is better FOR THE WHITE SOX than arod would be. and I still think he deserves to go to the all-star game over AROD

so try getting an attention span that's longer than a gnat's and you'll be able to focus on other things besides arod's stats.

voodoochile
06-04-2006, 10:39 AM
I'm not saying crede is better that AROD stats-wise. He has better intangibles that AROD. he may not be better than arod (i think he is better than arod but that's just my opinion and you don't have to live with it.)

But, ATTN: he is better FOR THE WHITE SOX than arod would be. and I still think he deserves to go to the all-star game over AROD

so try getting an attention span that's longer than a gnat's and you'll be able to focus on other things besides arod's stats.

Voodoo the poster says:

1) Please list these "intangibles".

2) Please tell us WHY you think Crede is better for the Sox than ARod.

Voodoo the Site Admin says:

3) Please EVERYONE stop with the name calling.

Jose.Contreras
06-04-2006, 10:52 AM
Not that it matters to me or anything but if you would've actually read the posts, you would have noticed that people started BERATING ME because I chose crede over arod in a trade AND for the all star game. I was simply defending myself for stating my opinion. i was also trying to make a case for why I have this opinion.


I am not trying to slam you. But I don't think the Crede/A-Rod trade is an opinion type thing here. It's actually A FACT that A-Rod is superior to Crede overall as a baseball player. Like I said in earlier posts this is taking salary out of the equation. You can't give reasons for why you would rather have Crede at 3b over A-Rod becuase it is A FACT that A-rod is better. Trying to argue that you wouldn't trade Joe Crede for A-Rod (no salary consideration) is like trying to argue that water isn't wet! IIn fact, let's give you an example of some other facts that I would equate the Joe Cred/A-Rod argument to.

- July 4th is Independence day in the United States.
- The Union (Northern States) won the civil war.
- F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "The Great Gatsby"
- 2 + 2 = 4.
- Grass is green.
- The sky is Blue.
- Alex Rodriguez is better than Joe Crede.

I hope you now see where we are all coming from on this whole "debate". This should all now make sense to you.

Thome25
06-04-2006, 10:58 AM
Voodoo the poster says:

1) Please list these "intangibles".

2) Please tell us WHY you think Crede is better for the Sox than ARod.

Voodoo the Site Admin says:

3) Please EVERYONE stop with the name calling.



1.) crede is the perfect example of the "team player" he puts the team ahead of himself or his personal stats. he is better defensively and in the clutch that arod. SO FAR he has proved to be better in the playoffs. stats don't always prove how good you really are He is the perfect "grinder" 3b that this team needs. all of these examples go beyond stats and value and salary.

2.) he makes less money than arod which gives us the money to spend elsewhere. He is not a primadonna let's see, arod jumped ship on a world-series caliber team in the mariners for more $$ with the last place Rangers.
Then he sold-out again with the Rangers when he decided that mega-millions weren't enough to make him happy in this game (which should've been his mentality in the first place.) and demanded a trade to the yankees.

To me he just isn't welcome on the white sox. he wouldn't fit in with the "team concept" the way that crede does. teams just don't win the world series with players like him.

to me crede is a better player i like the way he goes about the game day in and day out and i loved watching him come through with clutch hits in the regular season and playoffs. (and you gotta love the clutch defense too.) Crede is MY all-star 3b and i honestly believe he deserves to be there this year.

3.) the name calling will stop on this end.

Jose.Contreras
06-04-2006, 10:59 AM
I am not trying to slam you. But I don't think the Crede/A-Rod trade is an opinion type thing here. It's actually A FACT that A-Rod is superior to Crede overall as a baseball player. Like I said in earlier posts this is taking salary out of the equation. You can't give reasons for why you would rather have Crede at 3b over A-Rod becuase it is A FACT that A-rod is better. Trying to argue that you wouldn't trade Joe Crede for A-Rod (no salary consideration) is like trying to argue that water isn't wet! IIn fact, let's give you an example of some other facts that I would equate the Joe Cred/A-Rod argument to.

- July 4th is Independence day in the United States.
- The Union (Northern States) won the civil war.
- F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "The Great Gatsby"
- 2 + 2 = 4.
- Grass is green.
- The sky is Blue.
- Alex Rodriguez is better than Joe Crede.

I hope you now see where we are all coming from on this whole "debate". This should all now make sense to you.

Wow. I just realized that this post makes me sound like a total jerk. I apologize if it comes off this way. I'm new here so I just want everyone to know that I am a very sarcastic individual. This is meant to be humorous NOT hurtful. I want Thome25 to know this is all in good fun. Besides, we do all have a common goal. And that goal is to see the White Sox succeed and let's not forget that. I just thought I'd take the time to pump some common sense into Thome25 :)

Thome25
06-04-2006, 10:59 AM
- July 4th is Independence day in the United States.
- The Union (Northern States) won the civil war.
- F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "The Great Gatsby"
- 2 + 2 = 4.
- Grass is green.
- The sky is Blue.
- Alex Rodriguez is better than Joe Crede.

I hope you now see where we are all coming from on this whole "debate". This should all now make sense to you.[/quote]

The last one is YOUR opinion....to me stats aren't the whole issue. and crede has some pretty nice stats too.

cbone
06-04-2006, 10:59 AM
.
- The Union (Northern States) won the civil war.
.

http://usa-civil-war.com/Lee/lee_1863.jpg


"If I would of had Arod instead of Pickett at Gettysburg......."

Sorry just trying to lighten things up. :smile:

Thome25
06-04-2006, 11:02 AM
Wow. I just realized that this post makes me sound like a total jerk. I apologize if it comes off this way. I'm new here so I just want everyone to know that I am a very sarcastic individual. This is meant to be humorous NOT hurtful. I want Thome25 to know this is all in good fun. Besides, we do all have a common goal. And that goal is to see the White Sox succeed and let's not forget that. I just thought I'd take the time to pump some common sense into Thome25 :)

GO WHITE SOX!!! that's all i have to say!!!......and i apologise to anyone if I came off as being hurtful to any of you......just trying to state my case for joe crede.

cbotnyse
06-04-2006, 11:04 AM
I am not trying to slam you. But I don't think the Crede/A-Rod trade is an opinion type thing here. It's actually A FACT that A-Rod is superior to Crede overall as a baseball player. Like I said in earlier posts this is taking salary out of the equation. You can't give reasons for why you would rather have Crede at 3b over A-Rod becuase it is A FACT that A-rod is better. Trying to argue that you wouldn't trade Joe Crede for A-Rod (no salary consideration) is like trying to argue that water isn't wet! IIn fact, let's give you an example of some other facts that I would equate the Joe Cred/A-Rod argument to.

- July 4th is Independence day in the United States.
- The Union (Northern States) won the civil war.
- F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "The Great Gatsby"
- 2 + 2 = 4.
- Grass is green.
- The sky is Blue.
- Alex Rodriguez is better than Joe Crede.

I hope you now see where we are all coming from on this whole "debate". This should all now make sense to you.

each to their own......you fully understand that is your opinion. I mean, there are people out there who believe that Kevin Federline is a better songwriter than Paul McCartney, or dry heat is better than humidity.

I think Thome25 is looking at the comparison of the 2 players, outside of the stats. Do I think Crede is better than AROD? no, but I respect his opinion.

Chips
06-04-2006, 11:06 AM
The last one is YOUR opinion....to me stats aren't the whole issue. and crede has some pretty nice stats too.

Joe Crede (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/credejo01.shtml)
A Rod (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml)

There isn't even a contest. Look at Arod's playoffs numbers, pretty ****ing good, besides the LAA series last year.

Thome25
06-04-2006, 11:12 AM
Joe Crede (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/credejo01.shtml)
A Rod (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml)

There isn't even a contest. Look at Arod's playoffs numbers, pretty ****ing good, besides the LAA series last year.


I was never trying to say that crede had better stats than arod.....a 1st grader could tell you which stats were better. (imagine:"OK little timmy which numbers are bigger?!")

I just think that crede has all-star caliber stats AND he has the "other things" (intangibles) that AROD just doesn't. Like coming through when your team needs it the most. i.e. CREDE HAS HEART

that combined with crede's stats makes him the better player in my eyes.

voodoochile
06-04-2006, 11:41 AM
1.) crede is the perfect example of the "team player" he puts the team ahead of himself or his personal stats. he is better defensively and in the clutch that arod. SO FAR he has proved to be better in the playoffs. stats don't always prove how good you really are He is the perfect "grinder" 3b that this team needs. all of these examples go beyond stats and value and salary.

2.) he makes less money than arod which gives us the money to spend elsewhere. He is not a primadonna let's see, arod jumped ship on a world-series caliber team in the mariners for more $$ with the last place Rangers.
Then he sold-out again with the Rangers when he decided that mega-millions weren't enough to make him happy in this game (which should've been his mentality in the first place.) and demanded a trade to the yankees.

To me he just isn't welcome on the white sox. he wouldn't fit in with the "team concept" the way that crede does. teams just don't win the world series with players like him.

to me crede is a better player i like the way he goes about the game day in and day out and i loved watching him come through with clutch hits in the regular season and playoffs. (and you gotta love the clutch defense too.) Crede is MY all-star 3b and i honestly believe he deserves to be there this year.

3.) the name calling will stop on this end.
You've got your facts all wrong.

1) ARod gave up playing SS so Jeter could continue at the position, taking up a new position when he was arguably the best or one of the best defensive SS in the game, strictly so he could be a team player.

2) The M's offered $18M. The Rangers offered $25M. That's PER YEAR. That's a $70M difference over the length of the contract. In what universe does ANYONE turn down that kind of money. Then ARod didn't demand a trade to the Yankees, the Rangers were looking to dump his salary and because ARod is a good team player, he offered to rework his contract to be traded to Boston. The union said, "NO!" So then the Rangers and Yankees worked out a trade at which time the best SS in the game moved to 3rd so he could be a team player.

It's not that I think Crede is a bad player or lacks any of the things you mentioned, it's that in your desire to make Crede better, you are running all over ARod in your haste to prove your point. It doesn't fit the facts and ARod is still light years ahead of Crede offensively.

Crede is a good 3B who is just coming into his own, but guys like ARod are once in a generation type players who is guaranteed a slot in the HOF if he merely plays another 5 years and a guy with a chance to break the career HR record. You ALWAYS take players like that over guys who are simply All Stars (like Crede).

Yes, the money factors in to it from a team perspective, but never from an AS perspective.

Thome25
06-04-2006, 11:51 AM
You've got your facts all wrong.

1) ARod gave up playing SS so Jeter could continue at the position, taking up a new position when he was arguably the best or one of the best defensive SS in the game, strictly so he could be a team player.

2) The M's offered $18M. The Rangers offered $25M. That's PER YEAR. That's a $70M difference over the length of the contract. In what universe does ANYONE turn down that kind of money. Then ARod didn't demand a trade to the Yankees, the Rangers were looking to dump his salary and because ARod is a good team player, he offered to rework his contract to be traded to Boston. The union said, "NO!" So then the Rangers and Yankees worked out a trade at which time the best SS in the game moved to 3rd so he could be a team player.

It's not that I think Crede is a bad player or lacks any of the things you mentioned, it's that in your desire to make Crede better, you are running all over ARod in your haste to prove your point. It doesn't fit the facts and ARod is still light years ahead of Crede offensively.

Crede is a good 3B who is just coming into his own, but guys like ARod are once in a generation type players who is guaranteed a slot in the HOF if he merely plays another 5 years and a guy with a chance to break the career HR record. You ALWAYS take players like that over guys who are simply All Stars (like Crede).

Yes, the money factors in to it from a team perspective, but never from an AS perspective.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. but, I'm not shredding arod to prove my point I'm just stating reasons I like CREDE more than AROD.

I'm looking at things from a team perspective. I would rather have 10 world championships with a team player like crede rather than have a player that's swinging for the fences to break the HR record just so I can say we have a player who's wearing S-O-X on his cap on his HOF plaque.

I want grinders.....team players on my team. Players who are all-stars. Frank Thomas put up similar offensive numbers to arod for 7 or 8 years and that got us nowhere. That's my point. I'm not stupid I know arod's stats are better. my point is, there's more to this game than stats and there's more to and all-star than stats. Crede has all-star caliber stats. So does Arod. Crede has the other things outside the numbers that arod doesn't. That's what "tips the scales" toward Crede in my book.

A.T. Money
06-04-2006, 11:53 AM
Is it perfect...no, but I'll go with a guy who actually knows a little bit about the game as opposed to folks (particularly stat-geeks) who THINK they know something about it.

Lip

Hey aren't you one of those "stat geeks"?

voodoochile
06-04-2006, 11:55 AM
Thanks for clearing that up for me. but, I'm not shredding arod to prove my point I'm just stating reasons I like CREDE more than AROD.

I'm looking at things from a team perspective. I would rather have 10 world championships with a team player like crede rather than have a player that's swinging for the fences to break the HR record just so I can say we have a player who's wearing S-O-X on his cap on his HOF plaque.

I want grinders.....team players on my team. Players who are all-stars. Frank Thomas put up similar offensive numbers to arod for 7 or 8 years and that got us nowhere. That's my point. I'm not stupid I know arod's stats are better. my point is, there's more to this game than stats and there's more to and all-star than stats. Crede has all-star caliber stats. So does Arod. Crede has the other things outside the numbers that arod doesn't. That's what "tips the scales" toward Crede in my book.

I think it's the fact that Crede has S-O-X on his cap that tips the scales in his favor in your book, but that's okay. Totally biased is the way we like our Sox fans around these parts...:D:

Thome25
06-04-2006, 11:57 AM
I think it's the fact that Crede has S-O-X on his cap that tips the scales in his favor in your book, but that's okay. Totally biased is the way we like our Sox fans around these parts...:D:

I think you're right about that. Who knows I might be fighting for AROD just as hard if the tables we're turned and he was the one with S-O-X on his cap.

Lip Man 1
06-04-2006, 12:35 PM
A.T.:

Hell no. I despise those computer-type folks. Baseball isn't played on a computer notebook. It's played on a field with people who have to give a damn to win.

Lip

Fake Chet Lemon
06-05-2006, 01:30 PM
Konerko went into a tremendous slump after an All-Star game and HR hitting contest. So I'd now rather our guys rest up over the three days. I'm sure Jermaine Dye prefers being MVP of the World Series rather than MVP of an All-Star game. I enjoy the exhibition game, but I prefer seeing my guys in post-season play.

Madscout
06-07-2006, 11:40 PM
Let the Yanks and the Red Cubs have it. That just means rest for our players, which could not come at a better time. Thome will need it. Konerko will probably need it. Maybe get in a few days of fielding practice. Let them beat the crappy NL and we will take home the trophy that matters.

CHEESESOXER
06-08-2006, 08:02 AM
I'm a white sox fan here on the east coast all of my venom is still reserved for the flubs but i'm sick and tired if the "espn yankees/red sox propaganda" here on the east coast

Absolutely!!

It sure looks like the eastern seaboard preference network is controlling the voting.

They are so afraid of anything that is NOT yankoffs/deadsox that, they even deleted a thread on their board about that menage au trois and their obvious favoritism.

I was sooooo glad when their game got rained out last night.
I hope it gets rained out tonight also.

Railsplitter
06-08-2006, 09:42 AM
Get to MLB.com and stuff the ballot box. This is a team from the South Side, so we should know how to stuff a ballot box.

areilly
06-08-2006, 11:42 AM
AROD may be a 1st ballot hall of famer but he pukes his guts out when he gets to the playoffs and like i said before, Crede in my opinion is a better all-around player.



You're not voting on an All-Playoff or All-Clutch game; it's an All-Star game. A-Rod, love him or hate him, is a bona fide superstar and Crede is a hell of a player with very little name recognition outside of the AL Central. And as much as I love Crede, I have to say A-Rod is a better all-around player. Better baserunner, more power, although I'll give Crede the edge in the field if comparing strictly 3B to 3B.

areilly
06-08-2006, 11:48 AM
I'm looking at things from a team perspective. I would rather have 10 world championships with a team player like crede rather than have a player that's swinging for the fences to break the HR record just so I can say we have a player who's wearing S-O-X on his cap on his HOF plaque.

I doubt he'll be wearing a Sox cap when he gets in...but just how many sac bunts has Jim Thome laid down this year?

Conversely, how many times over the past few years have we seen Crede pop out to right-center. How exactly does one do that if they're not "swinging for the fences"?

Crede is awesome and all but your arguments are ludicrous.

sullythered
06-08-2006, 11:53 AM
I don't give a crap about the recognition, I just want our guys in there to give us the best chance of home field in the World Series again this year.:cool:

gf2020
06-08-2006, 12:18 PM
I voted 25 times for Iguchi yesterday. I hope others are doing the same. I think it would be a nice thing for the team and its fans to vote a player into the starting lineup at the all star game.

TheDarkGundam
06-08-2006, 04:10 PM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (If they have, my apologies), but yesterday on PTI, Wilbon (the Cub fan) totally went off on ESPN's Red Sox & Yankees bias.
They were discussing how the whole AL all-star team is Red Sox and Yankees, so Wilbon said he blames it all on ESPN (which their show is aired on) and how everything is about the "Sawx" and the Yankees to them. It was great.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2006, 04:38 PM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this (If they have, my apologies), but yesterday on PTI, Wilbon (the Cub fan) totally went off on ESPN's Red Sox & Yankees bias.
They were discussing how the whole AL all-star team is Red Sox and Yankees, so Wilbon said he blames it all on ESPN (which their show is aired on) and how everything is about the "Sawx" and the Yankees to them. It was great.

Unless he repents of his blasphemy, watch for Wilbon to take a "leave of absence" for family, personal or medical reasons.

Not sure that should be in teal....

StatHead21
06-08-2006, 05:47 PM
I just think Crede is a better all around player than Arod PERIOD.
I don't care what Arod has done in the last 10 years is still doesn't make it right. and I believe that reason he is the leading vote getter at 3b right now has more to do with him wearing yankees pinstripes than what he's done in his career.

Case in point: Robinson Cano

A-rod is one of the best players ever to play the game, Crede is a good role player on a great team, please don't make him out to be more than he is. I'm sure even Joe would admit A-rod is a much better player...

TheDarkGundam
06-08-2006, 05:51 PM
Unless he repents of his blasphemy, watch for Wilbon to take a "leave of absence" for family, personal or medical reasons.

Not sure that should be in teal....
Should I point out that today, Wilbon wasn't there? :o:







Well, he appeared on the show, live from...Detroit? Dallas? Somewhere like that. He just wasn't on set.

GOGOGOPODS
06-12-2006, 12:38 AM
Our team will be well represented.... You know Ozzie will take as many players he can from his team. The Yankees and Red Sox can get voted in who cares.. Ozzie will pick his players

StatHead21
06-12-2006, 01:20 AM
Cano is actually having the best year out of all AL 2nd basemen... .316 average leads all 2nd basemen in the MLB

Varitek and Damon are the only leaders that don't deserve a spot on the team.

oeo
06-12-2006, 02:18 AM
Cano is actually having the best year out of all AL 2nd basemen... .316 average leads all 2nd basemen in the MLB

Varitek and Damon are the only leaders that don't deserve a spot on the team.
There are still guys that are more deserving for a starting spot. For instance, Dye is having a better year than Manny is. David Ortiz isn't even a first baseman, there are more deserving because they actually play firstbase...Konerko comes to mind as one. That's too bad that you're a DH, there isn't a DH in the NL, so you shouldn't get to start at a position in which you've started maybe 3 times all year in a NL park. Does he deserve an all-star spot? Sure, but he shouldn't be starting.

goofymsfan
06-12-2006, 06:40 AM
Cano is actually having the best year out of all AL 2nd basemen... .316 average leads all 2nd basemen in the MLB

Varitek and Damon are the only leaders that don't deserve a spot on the team.

While Cano may have the higher batting average, Jose Lopez leads the 2nd basemen in RBI's with 50 and is 2nd behind Iguchi (43) in Runs scored with 40. He also has 17 doubles and 5 triples and 9 HR.