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Minnie Me
05-31-2006, 06:50 AM
Old Clifford has fallen on hard times. Did anybody else think that he looked like he was actually crying as he left the mound last nite?

It was very sad to see.

itsnotrequired
05-31-2006, 06:57 AM
Old Clifford has fallen on hard times. Did anybody else think that he looked like he was actually crying as he left the mound last nite?

It was very sad to see.

Probably crying over Ozuna not getting a hit in his last AB.

Minnie Me
05-31-2006, 07:29 AM
Probably crying over Ozuna not getting a hit in his last AB.
Pablos is playing his butt off every chance he gets. Maybe he gets to that ball hit past Dye for a triple.

I thought I saw Cliff Crying Last Night
A tear fell from his eye
When he needs a KO its just not there
And Cliff Politely cry

rdwj
05-31-2006, 07:35 AM
Pablos is playing his butt off every chance he gets. Maybe he gets to that ball hit past Dye for a triple.


Ya, and maybe he totally misreads a routine fly ball. Every ball hit to Ozuna in the outfield makes me nervous.

SouthsideFathead
05-31-2006, 07:46 AM
Ya, and maybe he totally misreads a routine fly ball. Every ball hit to Ozuna in the outfield makes me nervous.

I second that feeling!:o:

1917
05-31-2006, 08:27 AM
I actually that he was laughing, looked like Ozzie made a joke....

itsnotrequired
05-31-2006, 08:30 AM
I actually that he was laughing, looked like Ozzie made a joke....

Yeah, probably something along the lines of "I'll see you in the parking lot after the game!"

:tongue:

Minnie Me
05-31-2006, 08:44 AM
I second that feeling!:o:

Lonnie Smith made me queasy but he was always out there playing deep into the playoffs. Pablo can play left, he just needs more time out there.

kraut83
05-31-2006, 09:23 AM
Pods isn't exactly Willie Mays in the field, but I feel a lot better with him out there than Pablo. The espn guys were right on when they said he looked like an infielder playing outfield.

daveeym
05-31-2006, 09:29 AM
Lonnie Smith made me queasy but he was always out there playing deep into the playoffs. Pablo can play left, he just needs more time out there.Woah, Lonnie Smith reference. Well if you want significantly more time for Pablo in left he'll have to be sent down first and start practicing.

tebman
05-31-2006, 09:32 AM
Pablos is playing his butt off every chance he gets. Maybe he gets to that ball hit past Dye for a triple.

I thought I saw Cliff Crying Last Night
A tear fell from his eye
When he needs a KO its just not there
And Cliff Politely cry

You know, Minnie Me might be on to something here. Since Horsemaster Fred is like Halley's Comet, passing on his wisdom rarely and briefly, I think we should appreciate MM's contribution and have a White Sox Haiku or general poetry thread.

First pitch Uribe:
Swinging at every meatball.
No score if no hit.

The Dude
05-31-2006, 09:38 AM
Old Clifford has fallen on hard times. Did anybody else think that he looked like he was actually crying as he left the mound last nite?

It was very sad to see.

Nope, but what I did notice is a ****ty pitcher giving up 2 hits leading off the inning in a 1 run ballgame that he had no business being in!:angry: Other than that, he can cry his way back north of the border for all I care.

SoxFan78
05-31-2006, 09:42 AM
I dont know what has been up with Cliff latley. He has become the weak link of the staff thats for sure.

He just needs a confidence boost to get him back to where he needs to be. He needs one or two good innings in a pressure packed situation to get his confidence back up.

Bad thing about that, if he blows those situations, Sox aren't gonna be in too good of shape.

nevr say dye sox
05-31-2006, 10:07 AM
every time i see this goof warming up I yell at my T.V. then he trots in the game gives up a few singles and gets pulled. He sucks ass!

Minnie Me
05-31-2006, 10:10 AM
I dont know what has been up with Cliff latley. He has become the weak link of the staff thats for sure.

He just needs a confidence boost to get him back to where he needs to be. He needs one or two good innings in a pressure packed situation to get his confidence back up.

Bad thing about that, if he blows those situations, Sox aren't gonna be in too good of shape.

Maybe its just not confidence. It could be that he just had a career year last year. Middle relief guys after all are either failed starters or failed closers.

yesenia
05-31-2006, 10:10 AM
every time i see this goof warming up I yell at my T.V. then he trots in the game gives up a few singles and gets pulled. He sucks ass!

I do the same exact thing! Whenever him or Cotts come up I pray that they are just fooling around but I know better. I'm just thankful when they finally take them out and put Jenks or Thornton in to finish the game.

spiffie
05-31-2006, 10:40 AM
Cliff will be just fine. He was a huge part of the bullpen that got us to the World Series last year and now people just want to jettison him after a couple of bad outings? Seriously, we still have one of the best records in baseball, we have the best team in baseball, and in time everything will turn out fine. All I can say is that there sure are some

:darkclouds:

Dan Mega
05-31-2006, 10:50 AM
every time i see this goof warming up I yell at my T.V. then he trots in the game gives up a few singles and gets pulled. He sucks ass!

As one of the few Cliff fans on this site I will say he is either on or off this year. In about 5 or 6 appearances he has gotten killed. In his other games he looked like last year. His velocity seems to be there but his spots and confidence do not. Kind of like Marte.

Lets hope, for Cliff's sake, that he doesn't end the season like Marte.

Blob
05-31-2006, 10:53 AM
I actually that he was laughing, looked like Ozzie made a joke....

He looked like he was laughing to me too.

LauraJ14
05-31-2006, 11:49 AM
As one of the few Cliff fans on this site I will say he is either on or off this year. In about 5 or 6 appearances he has gotten killed. In his other games he looked like last year. His velocity seems to be there but his spots and confidence do not. Kind of like Marte.

Lets hope, for Cliff's sake, that he doesn't end the season like Marte.

And he seems to getting ahead of the hitters and then gives up a hit on an 0-2 pitch. Drives me nuts. Hopefully he can turn it around as the Sox need him this year.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2006, 11:56 AM
These things may or may not be factors:

In two of the past three seasons Cliff struggled badly. Was last year a fluke 'great' season for him? Was he finally evolving into a good pitcher? Or were the two previous seasons the 'norm' for him? So far this season looks like 'proof' (and I use that in quotes) that last season was a fluke great year.

Cliff isn't the biggest guy in the world. He doesn't appear to have the same zip on his fastball since last July. Physically he may have hit the wall and if that's the case, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Bottom line is Kenny is paid to think with his head, not his heart. If Cliff continues to struggle he has no choice but to see what's out there and to upgrade. That's the way it is.

Lip

churlish
05-31-2006, 12:13 PM
I do the same exact thing! Whenever him or Cotts come up I pray that they are just fooling around but I know better. I'm just thankful when they finally take them out and put Jenks or Thornton in to finish the game.

Please tell me you are joking about Cotts. Is this the same Neal Cotts who has given up 2 runs in his last 11 outings? And even when he got rocked against the Cubs (those 2 runs), it was partially due to Uribe botching a perfect double play ball that would have ended the inning. The same Neal Cotts with the best ERA and WHIP in the 'pen? Just checking.

SOXPHILE
05-31-2006, 12:20 PM
As one of the few Cliff fans on this site I will say he is either on or off this year. In about 5 or 6 appearances he has gotten killed. In his other games he looked like last year. His velocity seems to be there but his spots and confidence do not. Kind of like Marte.

Lets hope, for Cliff's sake, that he doesn't end the season like Marte.

I too am a Cliff supporter. I have always liked the guy, thought he's had pretty good stuff, and was underrated. That said, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very concerned. He flat out has not looked good. At all. Hopefully it's just some minor thing that Cooper can work out with him. When he came in the game last night, I was hopeful & worried at the same time, and wound up being very disappointed that he gave up those two quick hits.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-31-2006, 12:29 PM
http://www.cdshakedown.com/01_2001/gore_cover.jpg

You would cry too if it happened to you

Politte has a 1 year deal for $1.2 mil. He better hope he can turn things around and become at least an average reliever to stay in the game.

Relievers are fungible and you have to prove yourself each and every year.

This year he is worse than his career averages. Maybe he has / is hiding an injury. Cooper and the White Sox need to figure it out soon with Hermanson looking like he is done for good and Cotts regressing to his mean as well.

hawkjt
05-31-2006, 12:39 PM
Cotts is fine. Jeez, he aint perfect but last time I looked he is still above average.

Dustin was flat-out perfect(literally) the first 2-3 months last year. No one has pitched to that level out of the pen this year. And the starters are not quite as good either save Jose. So naturally that puts more pressure on the pen than they had last year.

Cliff is close to being solid. But close is still not there yet- we have no choice but to keep throwing him out there.

mccoydp
05-31-2006, 12:43 PM
I do the same exact thing! Whenever him or Cotts come up I pray that they are just fooling around but I know better. I'm just thankful when they finally take them out and put Jenks or Thornton in to finish the game.

:?:

Cotts? You have to be kidding.

Ol' No. 2
05-31-2006, 03:35 PM
These things may or may not be factors:

In two of the past three seasons Cliff struggled badly. Was last year a fluke 'great' season for him? Was he finally evolving into a good pitcher? Or were the two previous seasons the 'norm' for him? So far this season looks like 'proof' (and I use that in quotes) that last season was a fluke great year.

Cliff isn't the biggest guy in the world. He doesn't appear to have the same zip on his fastball since last July. Physically he may have hit the wall and if that's the case, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Bottom line is Kenny is paid to think with his head, not his heart. If Cliff continues to struggle he has no choice but to see what's out there and to upgrade. That's the way it is.

LipYou're neglecting a pretty good run of very good years before that. Four consecutive years of below 4.0 ERA. So which years are the outliers? At 32, you can't say he's washed up. Obviously, 2005 was a career year and we can't expect a 2.0 ERA again, but right now, anything under 4.0 would be welcome.

Bill Naharodny
05-31-2006, 03:46 PM
You know, Minnie Me might be on to something here. Since Horsemaster Fred is like Halley's Comet, passing on his wisdom rarely and briefly, I think we should appreciate MM's contribution and have a White Sox Haiku or general poetry thread.

First pitch Uribe:
Swinging at every meatball.
No score if no hit.

Fly ball to Pablo.
He runs around and around.
Chicken, head cut off.

IlliniSox4Life
05-31-2006, 03:58 PM
Fly ball to Pablo.
He runs around and around.
Chicken, head cut off.
:kneeslap:

Oswaldo Guillen
Another Venezuelan ****
Oswaldo Guillen

Minnie Me
05-31-2006, 04:02 PM
These things may or may not be factors:

In two of the past three seasons Cliff struggled badly. Was last year a fluke 'great' season for him? Was he finally evolving into a good pitcher? Or were the two previous seasons the 'norm' for him? So far this season looks like 'proof' (and I use that in quotes) that last season was a fluke great year.

Cliff isn't the biggest guy in the world. He doesn't appear to have the same zip on his fastball since last July. Physically he may have hit the wall and if that's the case, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Bottom line is Kenny is paid to think with his head, not his heart. If Cliff continues to struggle he has no choice but to see what's out there and to upgrade. That's the way it is.


Lip

I agree, Cliff is on the Cliff if his current problems continue then Ozzie will lose faith and patience.

Chips
05-31-2006, 07:37 PM
Nope, but what I did notice is a ****ty pitcher giving up 2 hits leading off the inning in a 1 run ballgame that he had no business being in!:angry: Other than that, he can cry his way back north of the border for all I care.

He's a busted leg. Send him back to Canada ASAP.

jongarlandlover
05-31-2006, 08:06 PM
I do the same exact thing! Whenever him or Cotts come up I pray that they are just fooling around but I know better. I'm just thankful when they finally take them out and put Jenks or Thornton in to finish the game.

really? cotts?

Chips
05-31-2006, 08:11 PM
I do the same exact thing! Whenever him or Cotts come up I pray that they are just fooling around but I know better. I'm just thankful when they finally take them out and put Jenks or Thornton in to finish the game.

Cotts is pitching good this year. He has only given up 7 runs, but 19 hits and 6 walks in 21.2 innings. I'm not too nervous when he comes in.

oeo
05-31-2006, 08:15 PM
Politte continues his suckfest. Thanks for the great season last year, but adios. Ozzie cannot continue to hand this guy the ball, this is ridiculous. Put a fork in him, he's done.

CubsfansareDRUNK
05-31-2006, 08:34 PM
yeah, we can't let him continue to pitch the way he has been. He just, well, sucks.

jongarlandlover
05-31-2006, 08:44 PM
Cotts is pitching good this year. He has only given up 7 runs, but 19 hits and 6 walks in 21.2 innings. I'm not too nervous when he comes in.

I know. I was just surprised someone was nervous when he came in!

jongarlandlover
05-31-2006, 08:46 PM
I quoted the wrong person.

Ah. I see. I was a bit confused by that...:tongue:

JB98
06-01-2006, 01:12 AM
I'm concerned about Politte, but I'm not giving up on him. His stuff looks fine. His velocity has improved since the start of the year. I think the problem is mostly in his head. He's afraid to challenge right-handed hitters with a fastball inside. When AJ calls for it, he either shakes it off or throws it right down the middle and gets hit. He has to start pitching inside with the heater to set up the slider away, which is his out pitch to right-handers. As it stands right now, Cliff will get two strikes on a hitter, but he can't put the guy away. Reason: Opposing hitters don't have to honor his fastball, so they are sitting on that slider. Until Cliff forces the hitter to honor his fastball, he will continue to struggle.

Granted, there are a lot of people who know more about pitching than I do, but that's my two cents on the topic.

RadioheadRocks
06-01-2006, 01:38 AM
I think the problem is mostly in his head. He's afraid to challenge right-handed hitters with a fastball inside. When AJ calls for it, he either shakes it off or throws it right down the middle and gets hit.

Maybe that's it right there. Next time he shakes AJ off, AJ needs to be AJ and light that fire under Politte's ass. :cool:

Bobbo35
06-01-2006, 07:15 AM
Ya, and maybe he totally misreads a routine fly ball. Every ball hit to Ozuna in the outfield makes me nervous.
He looks totally unorthodox out there. He is moving all over the place for a routine fly ball. He is a hard worker that makes things happen for the Sox so I cannot knock him.

Paulwny
06-01-2006, 11:49 AM
I'm concerned about Politte, but I'm not giving up on him. His stuff looks fine. His velocity has improved since the start of the year. I think the problem is mostly in his head. He's afraid to challenge right-handed hitters with a fastball inside. When AJ calls for it, he either shakes it off or throws it right down the middle and gets hit. He has to start pitching inside with the heater to set up the slider away, which is his out pitch to right-handers. As it stands right now, Cliff will get two strikes on a hitter, but he can't put the guy away. Reason: Opposing hitters don't have to honor his fastball, so they are sitting on that slider. Until Cliff forces the hitter to honor his fastball, he will continue to struggle.

Granted, there are a lot of people who know more about pitching than I do, but that's my two cents on the topic.

Good call, the Tribe radio announcers agree with you on Politte not throwing fast balls and hard sliders. They don't understand where just about every pitch is off speed when last year he challenged the Tribe hitters with hard stuff.
Is there an arm problem here that is being kept quiet ?