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View Full Version : Question about Thome when he goes to the hall of fame


tehwhitesoxrulz
05-29-2006, 01:12 AM
I know it's still to soon but i have been wondering say Thome wins a ring with the Sox and hits homer 500th with us does he go in as a White Sox or Indian.:?:

Frontman
05-29-2006, 01:16 AM
I'm not quite sure, but I believe that the Hall now makes the decision, not the player anymore after Wade Boggs' clause in his contact from Tampa.

I'd love for him to go in as a White Sox, but completely understand if he goes in as an Indian. More time with that organization and all.

Front

QCIASOXFAN
05-29-2006, 01:16 AM
I would probably have to go with Indian.

SweetnesSox
05-29-2006, 01:23 AM
the hall makes the decision, but the player gives his suggestion, so it depends what happens during his tenure here. He's only been a Sock for a couple months... lets wait and see.

RadioheadRocks
05-29-2006, 01:27 AM
I'd love for him to go in as a White Sox, but completely understand if he goes in as an Indian. More time with that organization and all.

Front

The way those dip**** fans treated him during our first road series there should convince him to think otherwise.... JMHO

Trav
05-29-2006, 01:33 AM
I know it's still to soon but i have been wondering say Thome wins a ring with the Sox and hits homer 500th with us does he go in as a White Sox or Indian.:?:

I don't think he gets in.

SweetnesSox
05-29-2006, 01:41 AM
I don't think he gets in.

no one who hits 500 homeruns has ever not gotten in. just some food for thought.

Banix12
05-29-2006, 01:56 AM
no one who hits 500 homeruns has ever not gotten in. just some food for thought.

I think there are going to be a few this era who hit 500 and don't. Certainly Palmeiro's chances are in question, and I'll bet a few who don't have steriod clouds will have some issues.

Unless he spends about a half dozen productive years here and gets a ring, he would go in as an Indian if he goes in at all.

getonbckthr
05-29-2006, 02:00 AM
Because of this era's 500 hr guys it makes Thome and Thomas and Griffey look better than they already do.

QCIASOXFAN
05-29-2006, 02:33 AM
I don't think he gets in.:?: :?: :?: :?:

D. TODD
05-29-2006, 03:00 AM
If he gets in YOUR NUTS if you don't think he will not go in as an Indian at this point. If Frank Thomas hits # 500 as an Athletic should there be a question who he would go in to the HOF as? Come on at this point Thome is more of a Phillie then a White Sox. Unless he plays a lot longer then anyone can realisticly expect he will be an Indian first and foremost for his career.

Trav
05-29-2006, 03:13 AM
I think there are going to be a few this era who hit 500 and don't. Certainly Palmeiro's chances are in question, and I'll bet a few who don't have steriod clouds will have some issues.



That is why I don't think he is a lock to get in if he hits 500. As well as the fact that no one knows how the DH is going to be treated by the writers and such. Are they going to let Edger Martinez in? They ought to but if for some reason it takes them a while (like the closer role) to vote a DH in then Thome has REAL problems.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-29-2006, 03:23 AM
I know it's still to soon but i have been wondering say Thome wins a ring with the Sox and hits homer 500th with us does he go in as a White Sox or Indian.:?:

Neither - he goes in as a Toon.:wh1tesox00


That is if he gets in. He may need more than 500 - we won't know how the voters will vote with all the circumstances of this period - the increased runs / homers, steroids, etc.

If he retires after this season or next I doubt he enters. If he stays healthy and produces close to what he has done this season for the next 3 - 4 years he is in. Thomas and Bagwell are far stronger candidates IMO and there are questions of whether Frank gets in first ballot or not.

D. TODD
05-29-2006, 03:27 AM
That is why I don't think he is a lock to get in if he hits 500. As well as the fact that no one knows how the DH is going to be treated by the writers and such. Are they going to let Edger Martinez in? They ought to but if for some reason it takes them a while (like the closer role) to vote a DH in then Thome has REAL problems. Thome did not play the majority of his career as a DH. He has played 1st base primarily throughout his career to this point

ShoelessJoeS
05-29-2006, 03:34 AM
If/when Thome hits his 500th, that will solidify his spot in the Hall. If he continues good services here on the South Side for a couple more years, he might get in without a logo on his cap (also due in part with his time, albeit short, in Philly). Even though my gut says it will be an Indian. IMO, if he gets treated like he has by the unclassy Cleveland fans, I don't think Thome will want to be represented by such an organization with a disrespectful fanbase.

This situation reminds me of Fisk in a way. Even though he spent more years of his career in Chicago, he went to the hall wearing a B on his cap. This, I believe is because of the way we treated him like **** at the end of his tenure here. If we hadn't....hell, he might be wearing no logo on his plaque, or even one representing the Sox would not be that far out of reach.

Banix12
05-29-2006, 03:40 AM
That is why I don't think he is a lock to get in if he hits 500. As well as the fact that no one knows how the DH is going to be treated by the writers and such. Are they going to let Edger Martinez in? They ought to but if for some reason it takes them a while (like the closer role) to vote a DH in then Thome has REAL problems.

Well Thome was never really a DH until this season, so he has plenty of service time as a fielder. And there are are guys in the hall who spent a good chunk of time as a DH. Dave Winfield and Paul Molitor would likely have been short of 3000 hits without the DH and same goes for Eddie Murray and his 500 HR's.

It seems they will let in DH players as long as they spent most of their career as a fielder and have big round numbers

If Thome hits 500 I think he is about a 99% lock frankly because everybody likes him. Not one sportswriter, broadcaster, player, etc. has really a bad thing to say about him. With the lone exceptions being the few jaded cleveland fans that booed him.

D. TODD
05-29-2006, 03:40 AM
If/when Thome hits his 500th, that will solidify his spot in the Hall. If he continues good services here on the South Side for a couple more years, he might get in without a logo on his cap (also due in part with his time, albeit short, in Philly). Even though my gut says it will be an Indian. IMO, if he gets treated like he has by the unclassy Cleveland fans, I don't think Thome will want to be represented by such an organization with a disrespectful fanbase.

This situation reminds me of Fisk in a way. Even though he spent more years of his career in Chicago, he went to the hall wearing a B on his cap. This, I believe is because of the way we treated him like **** at the end of his tenure here. If we hadn't....hell, he might be wearing no logo on his plaque, or even one representing the Sox would not be that far out of reach. He left Boston on terrible terms also. Like it or not he is best known as a Red Sox. I think that was the determining factor.

ShoelessJoeS
05-29-2006, 03:46 AM
He left Boston on terrible terms also. Like it or not he is best known as a Red Sox. I think that was the determining factor.Damn you Game 6 of the '75 World Series!

Trav
05-29-2006, 03:54 AM
Thome did not play the majority of his career as a DH. He has played 1st base primarily throughout his career to this point

You are correct. I take that back. The 500* still stands as a block in the road, however.

IlliniSox4Life
05-29-2006, 04:32 AM
It depends. I'd probably say right now, there's probably a 85% chance he goes in as an Indian. If he ends up playing here for 5 years, hitting ~200 home runs here while winning 3 world series and taking the mvp home in two of them, he's got a good shot of going in a Sox, but I would say the odds are he goes in as an Indian.

jortafan
05-29-2006, 07:47 AM
I know it's still to soon but i have been wondering say Thome wins a ring with the Sox and hits homer 500th with us does he go in as a White Sox or Indian.:?:

I'd say that if he helps the White Sox win a World Series or two and is with the Sox long enough to hit his 600th home run in their uniform, then maybe he goes into Cooperstown representing the South Side of Chicago.

Otherwise, he's a Cleveland Indian who may or may not get into the Hall.

Frontman
05-29-2006, 09:19 AM
The way those dip**** fans treated him during our first road series there should convince him to think otherwise.... JMHO

You know, I forgot about how classless that was. Let me revise my opinion. Whatever Jim would be happy with, I'd be happy with. If he doesn't have a problem going in as an Indian, good enough for me.

Front

Frontman
05-29-2006, 09:20 AM
He left Boston on terrible terms also. Like it or not he is best known as a Red Sox. I think that was the determining factor.

Fisk also played in a World Series as a Red Sox. He didn't get that far as a White Sox. That might of had a factor too.

Trav
05-29-2006, 01:22 PM
You know, I forgot about how classless that was. Let me revise my opinion. Whatever Jim would be happy with, I'd be happy with. If he doesn't have a problem going in as an Indian, good enough for me.

Front

Here is a question off the thread topic, if Mags would have left for more money, after saying he wouldn't, and didn't blast the team after he did it, would the fans still have booed him?

fquaye149
05-29-2006, 01:45 PM
Here is a question off the thread topic, if Mags would have left for more money, after saying he wouldn't, and didn't blast the team after he did it, would the fans still have booed him?

Maybe, but not nearly as much, if at all.

thomas35forever
05-29-2006, 02:37 PM
Maybe, but not nearly as much, if at all.
Maybe he'd be treated like the way we treated Ray Durham when he came back as a Giant.

IlliniSox4Life
05-29-2006, 02:40 PM
Here is a question off the thread topic, if Mags would have left for more money, after saying he wouldn't, and didn't blast the team after he did it, would the fans still have booed him?

IIRC, it wasn't that Thome left for that much more money, it seemed that the Indians didn't really offer him a fair contract, and that is why he had to go somewhere else. I could be completely off, but thats what I recall. Anyway, if that's the case, you can't expect a person to turn down millions of dollars just to play for your team. If the deals are close, sure, like Paulie did this offseason, but if its an extra year and an extra couple million a year, there's a big difference.

Chips
05-29-2006, 02:55 PM
That is why I don't think he is a lock to get in if he hits 500. As well as the fact that no one knows how the DH is going to be treated by the writers and such. Are they going to let Edger Martinez in? They ought to but if for some reason it takes them a while (like the closer role) to vote a DH in then Thome has REAL problems.

Thome was a third baseman and a first baseman until this season.

StockdaleForVeep
05-29-2006, 03:31 PM
That is why I don't think he is a lock to get in if he hits 500. As well as the fact that no one knows how the DH is going to be treated by the writers and such. Are they going to let Edger Martinez in? They ought to but if for some reason it takes them a while (like the closer role) to vote a DH in then Thome has REAL problems.

U do remember he played 1b, especially when he was in the national league dont u?

Also, i would have a bad taste in my mouth if he even considered goin with the sox to the hall. Thats like Bobby Orr goin to the hockey hall as a blackhawk cuz he was one for 3 seasons

rookiewhitesox
05-29-2006, 04:38 PM
I would like for him to wear a Sox when he goes to the Hall.

Trav
05-29-2006, 05:00 PM
IIRC, it wasn't that Thome left for that much more money, it seemed that the Indians didn't really offer him a fair contract, and that is why he had to go somewhere else. I could be completely off, but thats what I recall. Anyway, if that's the case, you can't expect a person to turn down millions of dollars just to play for your team. If the deals are close, sure, like Paulie did this offseason, but if its an extra year and an extra couple million a year, there's a big difference.


I asked my Indians friend to make sure and he said Thome was going on about how he wouldn't leave Cleveland for more money and how money wasn't that important to him. You know the usual pro athlete talk... My friend claims the Indians gave him a fair offer and Thome left for just a few more million dollars. If their is such a thing.
I can understand their dissapointment and it makes me laugh at the Sox fans who blast the Clevelanders for booing him becaues I would bet that most of the ones who are going on about the Indians fans also would boo former Sox players.

I like Jim. Everyone seems to be in love with him and it is pretty rare that you go through a career like he has and not have anyone write a bad thing about you, personally. So I give him credit for that. I'm glad he is off to a hot start and hope he stays healthy.

Daver
05-29-2006, 05:05 PM
I asked my Indians friend to make sure and he said Thome was going on about how he wouldn't leave Cleveland for more money and how money wasn't that important to him. You know the usual pro athlete talk... My friend claims the Indians gave him a fair offer and Thome left for just a few more million dollars. If their is such a thing.
I can understand their dissapointment and it makes me laugh at the Sox fans who blast the Clevelanders for booing him becaues I would bet that most of the ones who are going on about the Indians fans also would boo former Sox players.

I like Jim. Everyone seems to be in love with him and it is pretty rare that you go through a career like he has and not have anyone write a bad thing about you, personally. So I give him credit for that. I'm glad he is off to a hot start and hope he stays healthy.

Thome's issue with the Jndjans wasn't money, it was length of contract, they only wanted to sign him to a three year deal.

Trav
05-29-2006, 05:12 PM
U do remember he played 1b, especially when he was in the national league dont u?




I know he was in National League last year. My point about the DH was based on the assumption that while he was in Cleveland he was primary a DH. I know that he came up a skinny 3B but no one thinks he is going to the HOF as a 3B. I looked up some stats and it seems he has played 3B in more games than he was a DH, as of last year.

Chips
05-29-2006, 06:11 PM
I know he was in National League last year. My point about the DH was based on the assumption that while he was in Cleveland he was primary a DH. I know that he came up a skinny 3B but no one thinks he is going to the HOF as a 3B. I looked up some stats and it seems he has played 3B in more games than he was a DH, as of last year.

He also played first for about 1100 games. If he is inducted it would be as a firstbaseman and he'll probably don a Injuns hat.

SweetnesSox
05-29-2006, 06:41 PM
the indians offered 5 year, 60 mil, the phillies offered 7 years, 90 mil (with incentives) I believe.

tweek57
05-29-2006, 08:35 PM
I know he was in National League last year. My point about the DH was based on the assumption that while he was in Cleveland he was primary a DH. I know that he came up a skinny 3B but no one thinks he is going to the HOF as a 3B. I looked up some stats and it seems he has played 3B in more games than he was a DH, as of last year.
I'm confused as to how he plays 1097 games at 1B, 492 at 3B and only 178 at DH and you consider him a DH. Some food for thought

DH - 10%
3B - 28%
1B - 62%

beckett21
05-29-2006, 08:43 PM
IIRC, it wasn't that Thome left for that much more money, it seemed that the Indians didn't really offer him a fair contract, and that is why he had to go somewhere else. I could be completely off, but thats what I recall. Anyway, if that's the case, you can't expect a person to turn down millions of dollars just to play for your team. If the deals are close, sure, like Paulie did this offseason, but if its an extra year and an extra couple million a year, there's a big difference.

IIRC word was he also got a lot of pressure behind the scenes from the players' union to break the bank in free agency, and break it hard.

Brian26
05-29-2006, 08:48 PM
He also played first for about 1100 games. If he is inducted it would be as a firstbaseman and he'll probably don a Injuns hat.

Yeah, there's no debating this. He's going into the Hall of Fame as an Indian if he goes.

JB98
05-29-2006, 08:52 PM
In my book, Jim is a Hall of Famer. And he'll go in as an Indian.

Hitmen77
05-29-2006, 09:14 PM
Speaking of Mr. Thome, he hit is 450th career HR today. Congratulations, Jim!

By the way, if he keeps hitting HRs this year at his current pace, he'll finish the season with 496 HRs. :o:

Epark84
05-29-2006, 10:12 PM
Hes an Indian when he goes into the hall. No matter what happens in chicago. Yeah they booed him, but they felt like he betrayed them. We sox fans booed maggs too and look what he did while he was here. And now he is an all star again. But unless he plays another 5-6 years here, there is no doubt. He hit almost 400 of his 450 with cleveland.

1917
05-29-2006, 10:25 PM
This is like A's fans asking if Big Frank will go in as an A when he hits his 500th with them (actually if he does with them)....Thome will go in a Indian unless he stay with the Sox for at least 8 more years....plus how many Indians are even in the Hall of Fame? Not many...I know one of the main reasons Gary Carter got in the HOF as an Expo, instead os a Met, was because he was the first player to be retired an Expos (hopefully Rock next)

StockdaleForVeep
05-29-2006, 10:55 PM
I asked my Indians friend to make sure and he said Thome was going on about how he wouldn't leave Cleveland for more money and how money wasn't that important to him. You know the usual pro athlete talk... My friend claims the Indians gave him a fair offer and Thome left for just a few more million dollars. If their is such a thing.
I can understand their dissapointment and it makes me laugh at the Sox fans who blast the Clevelanders for booing him becaues I would bet that most of the ones who are going on about the Indians fans also would boo former Sox players.

I like Jim. Everyone seems to be in love with him and it is pretty rare that you go through a career like he has and not have anyone write a bad thing about you, personally. So I give him credit for that. I'm glad he is off to a hot start and hope he stays healthy.

I believe sox fans did boo Magglio, and he left for more money

wassagstdu
05-29-2006, 10:55 PM
the indians offered 5 year, 60 mil, the phillies offered 7 years, 90 mil (with incentives) I believe.

He wasn't loyal enough to turn down two extra years and $30 million? What a money-hungry creep! Indian fans turn down that kind of money all the time, no? Otherwise how could they boo the guy?

.

pearso66
05-29-2006, 10:55 PM
If Thome wins a World Series here, and plays for 3 more years here, there is a good chance he goes in as a White Sox. But if the Sox don't win a World Series while he is here, or he is gone after this or next year, there should be no question as who he goes in as.

Tigerclaw
05-29-2006, 11:59 PM
If Thome wins a World Series here, and plays for 3 more years here, there is a good chance he goes in as a White Sox. But if the Sox don't win a World Series while he is here, or he is gone after this or next year, there should be no question as who he goes in as.

I think the chances of Thome making it in with a cap that is any other but an Indians cap is a big stretch. He is the all-time home run leader for the Indians franchise, he almost won a world series there and made the playoffs many other times while he was there. I have debated with Tigers fans about the same situation with Ivan Rodriguez and there is no doubt that he should be elected as a Ranger, regardless of how the Tigers do this year or next while he is here.

Chips
05-30-2006, 12:13 AM
If Thome wins a World Series here, and plays for 3 more years here, there is a good chance he goes in as a White Sox. But if the Sox don't win a World Series while he is here, or he is gone after this or next year, there should be no question as who he goes in as.

The guy played 11 seasons in Cleveland and hit about 350 homers, 930 RBI and kicked ass for all them years. For Thome to go in as a White Sox, he'll need to put comparable numbers, I don't see him playing here for 7 or 8 more seasons. He'll be an Indian if he makes it.

IronFisk
05-30-2006, 12:28 AM
You know, thapsis does beg a good question in the era of free agency. Maybe they should have a neutral one for selection. Nearly all players nowadays have been at more than one location. Sure, there will be some who will always be recognized for one team (Frank), but not all. Although Thome should be in as an Indian, he still will have made significant contributions with us and Philly. Heck, I think his best season thus far was with the Phils.

Trav
05-30-2006, 01:21 AM
You know, thapsis does beg a good question in the era of free agency. Maybe they should have a neutral one for selection. Nearly all players nowadays have been at more than one location. Sure, there will be some who will always be recognized for one team (Frank), but not all. Although Thome should be in as an Indian, he still will have made significant contributions with us and Philly. Heck, I think his best season thus far was with the Phils.

You don't make the HOF from one season so I doubt what team you were on when you had your best season would effect it. I don't think winning a World Series has anything to do with what hat you wear in the bust, either. I'm sure it has something to do with where he had the most number of productive years. I hope it isn't about what team you were on when you gained the most publicity. Alex Rodriguez is going to be a fun one to talk about when he hangs it up.

Anyone know if the commitee talks about their reasoning behind a decision when a player has two or more teams he could represent?

Trav
05-30-2006, 01:26 AM
I'm confused as to how he plays 1097 games at 1B, 492 at 3B and only 178 at DH and you consider him a DH. Some food for thought

DH - 10%
3B - 28%
1B - 62%

I'm confused as to how you read this thread and still think I believe he should go in as anything but a 1B. I think I admitted I didn't realize how many games he played 1st for Cleveland. I even said he played more games as a 3B than a DH.

Trav
05-30-2006, 01:30 AM
I believe sox fans did boo Magglio, and he left for more money

Yup and his comments didn't help one bit either.

RKMeibalane
05-30-2006, 09:54 AM
I know he was in National League last year. My point about the DH was based on the assumption that while he was in Cleveland he was primary a DH. I know that he came up a skinny 3B but no one thinks he is going to the HOF as a 3B. I looked up some stats and it seems he has played 3B in more games than he was a DH, as of last year.

Thome was primarilly a 1B and 3B in Cleveland, not a DH. That's all that matters, not whether he's considered a 3B or 1B by most people. He made the switch from third to first in 1997, after the Indians acquired Matt Williams from the Giants.