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Chips
05-28-2006, 04:19 PM
Bonds passes Ruth with #715

TheOldRoman
05-28-2006, 04:24 PM
This is a dark dark day for baseball.
And now the clows on ESPN are defending him.
Reynolds - "This is a huge accomplishment. Only 2 guys have ever hit this many homers. Wow. Steroids or not, this is such a great feat. Nobody else has come anywhere close to Aaron. Also, he has never failed a drug test."

Absolutely dispicable. I'm surprised Reynolds didn't work in a reference to "Bonds on Bonds" during his rant. These morons are absolutely shameful.

SoxFanPrope
05-28-2006, 04:32 PM
This is a dark dark day for baseball.
And now the clows on ESPN are defending him.
Reynolds - "This is a huge accomplishment. Only 2 guys have ever hit this many homers. Wow. Steroids or not, this is such a great feat. Nobody else has come anywhere close to Aaron. Also, he has never failed a drug test."

Absolutely dispicable. I'm surprised Reynolds didn't work in a reference to "Bonds on Bonds" during his rant. These morons are absolutely shameful.

Until Barry Bonds does what the Babe did on the mound, Bonds should never be considered in his league.

DumpJerry
05-28-2006, 04:33 PM
Does this mean he is retiring tomorrow? How about tonight?

VenturaFan23
05-28-2006, 04:37 PM
This is a dark dark day for baseball.
And now the clows on ESPN are defending him.
Reynolds - "This is a huge accomplishment. Only 2 guys have ever hit this many homers. Wow. Steroids or not, this is such a great feat. Nobody else has come anywhere close to Aaron. Also, he has never failed a drug test."

Absolutely dispicable. I'm surprised Reynolds didn't work in a reference to "Bonds on Bonds" during his rant. These morons are absolutely shameful.

What a shock :rolleyes: . Well hopefully now we won't be hearing from him again until he gets busted.

RKMeibalane
05-28-2006, 04:38 PM
*

cbotnyse
05-28-2006, 04:40 PM
I do not like Bonds very much but his baseball acomplishments are impressive.

If you put his sparkling personality aside and the fact that the cowards at MLB turned a blind eye to steriods forever, you can not deny his achievements.

Yes he may have done steriods, but just think of all of the other players that have as well, including many pitchers that he has faced, and all of the other hitters that have not come anywhere close to Barry's numbers.

Like it or not Barry will now always be #2, or possibly better.......However, I have a feeling Alex Rod, or Albert will eventually pass them all.

WSox8404
05-28-2006, 05:20 PM
**** Bonds....that sums up my feelings totally.

SoxEd
05-28-2006, 05:20 PM
It'll be interesting to see how this gets reported over here.

The press in general have been very 'iffy' about Barry over the last year or so (check out the BBC's news archives), so their take will be fun.

What I am particularly looking forard to though, is that at 1am UK time (7pm Chicago time) we get a free-to-air TV channel showing the ESPN Sunday night game coverage, but with UK anchors.

The regular co-host is an ex-Red Sox minor leaguer, who has just finished his training in the US as a Lawyer.
His previous comments concerning Barry have been utterly scathing without being libellous/slanderous, so it'll be fun getting his take on this.

I predict that he'll concur with The Old Roman - he has in the past, and he's been equally contemptuous of ESPN's 'unbiased' coverage of the issue, what with them also having that 'exclusive' 'Bonds on Bonds' show to shill...

I'll let you know what he says, if anyone's interested.

WSox8404
05-28-2006, 05:20 PM
**** Bonds....that sums up my feelings totally.

Oh yeah...and the same goes for ESPN also.

A. Cavatica
05-28-2006, 05:21 PM
:whocares

SoxEd
05-28-2006, 05:23 PM
Yes he may have done steriods, but just think of all of the other players that have as well, including many pitchers that he has faced, and all of the other hitters that have not come anywhere close to Barry's numbers.


Can I also put you down then as a fan of Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson, and a believer that he should be allowed to keep his 1988 Seoul gold medal?

Sure, he took 'roids in order to run that fast, and he beat out a bunch of really talented non-cheating athletes (e.g. Carl Lewis) in doing so, but so what?
He DID run that fast, eh?

cbotnyse
05-28-2006, 05:29 PM
Can I also put you down then as a fan of Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson, and a believer that he should be allowed to keep his 1988 Seoul gold medal?

Sure, he took 'roids in order to run that fast, and he beat out a bunch of really talented non-cheating athletes (e.g. Carl Lewis) in doing so, but so what?
He DID run that fast, eh?

No I wouldnt compare the two, but my point is steriods were (sadly) not illiegal so any player could have done them....does that make it right? absolutely not. but obviously in the olympics they are illegal.

MarySwiss
05-28-2006, 05:39 PM
I do not like Bonds very much but his baseball acomplishments are impressive.

If you put his sparkling personality aside and the fact that the cowards at MLB turned a blind eye to steriods forever, you can not deny his achievements.

Yes he may have done steriods, but just think of all of the other players that have as well, including many pitchers that he has faced, and all of the other hitters that have not come anywhere close to Barry's numbers.

Like it or not Barry will now always be #2, or possibly better.......However, I have a feeling Alex Rod, or Albert will eventually pass them all.
Apples and oranges. None of these "records" can be compared to the others, because of the differences in the playing field, number of games played, racial issues, etc.

IMO--all things being equal--Aaron rules. Followed by Babe. Bonds is a distant third, at best.

MarySwiss
05-28-2006, 05:41 PM
It'll be interesting to see how this gets reported over here.

The press in general have been very 'iffy' about Barry over the last year or so (check out the BBC's news archives), so their take will be fun.

What I am particularly looking forard to though, is that at 1am UK time (7pm Chicago time) we get a free-to-air TV channel showing the ESPN Sunday night game coverage, but with UK anchors.

The regular co-host is an ex-Red Sox minor leaguer, who has just finished his training in the US as a Lawyer.
His previous comments concerning Barry have been utterly scathing without being libellous/slanderous, so it'll be fun getting his take on this.

I predict that he'll concur with The Old Roman - he has in the past, and he's been equally contemptuous of ESPN's 'unbiased' coverage of the issue, what with them also having that 'exclusive' 'Bonds on Bonds' show to shill...

I'll let you know what he says, if anyone's interested.
I'm interested, SoxEd.

SoxEd
05-28-2006, 05:58 PM
No I wouldnt compare the two, but my point is steriods were (sadly) not illiegal

Neither was hiring a thug to break the other guy's legs - but I'm guessing that you'd have a different view of any players doing that.


so any player could have done them....does that make it right? absolutely not. but obviously in the olympics they are illegal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doing 'roids was a Federal Offence at the time the juicers were using them in the 1990's - no?

Same as e.g. kidnapping your opponent's kids and threatening harm to them unless he threw the game against you.

That wasn't 'illegal in baseball' either, was it?

Taking roids is cheating - and it is cheating in a manner that lead to the deaths of high school kids who were trying to emulate their baseball heroes.

It is (imo at least) indefensible.

RadioheadRocks
05-28-2006, 06:00 PM
Hit it off Byung Hyun Kim, guy known for giving up gopher balls in big-time situations (2001 World Series ring any bells???)... big ****ing surprise there.

cbotnyse
05-28-2006, 06:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doing 'roids was a Federal Offence at the time the juicers were using them in the 1990's - no?

Same as e.g. kidnapping your opponent's kids and threatening harm to them unless he threw the game against you.

That wasn't 'illegal in baseball' either, was it?

Taking roids is cheating - and it is cheating in a manner that lead to the deaths of high school kids who were trying to emulate their baseball heroes.

It is (imo at least) indefensible.

i agree with you but MLB has to take some of the blame for not even testing for it.

Daver
05-28-2006, 06:06 PM
i agree with you but MLB has to take some of the blame for not even testing for it.

And the players union has to take some blame for not allowing testing, and the FBI has to take some blame for not enforcing the laws of the United States................

SoxEd
05-28-2006, 06:08 PM
i agree with you but MLB has to take some of the blame for not even testing for it.
Totally agree - MLB Inc, the owners, and the MLBPA are all culpable in this, but the juicers themselves are IMO the most culpable.

My reasoning for this is possibly best explained by the following analogy - if I park my car in a 'bad' neighbourhood, and leave it unlocked, when I know that there are no cops about, and somebody then steals it, who should shoulder the blame?

The cops, for not being there?
Me, for being a doofus?
Sure, but the lion's share of opprobrium MUST go to the guy who actually stole the car - no?

beckett21
05-28-2006, 06:28 PM
Yay. :party:

If I never hear of this piece of human garbage again, it will be too soon.

RealMenWearBlack
05-28-2006, 06:31 PM
I do not like Bonds very much but his baseball acomplishments are impressive.

If you put his sparkling personality aside and the fact that the cowards at MLB turned a blind eye to steriods forever, you can not deny his achievements.

Yes he may have done steriods, but just think of all of the other players that have as well, including many pitchers that he has faced, and all of the other hitters that have not come anywhere close to Barry's numbers.

Like it or not Barry will now always be #2, or possibly better.......However, I have a feeling Alex Rod, or Albert will eventually pass them all.

Yeah, I've always felt the same way about Bonds. His legacy is tarnished enough by his personality and the steroid allegations. Just because he's ahead of Ruth doesn't mean future generations will think that he's better than Ruth. Ruth is the best baseball player of all time and he always will be. He was a great pitcher and would have had over 1,000 home runs if he had the same amount of at bats as Hank Aaron.

CLR01
05-28-2006, 07:03 PM
but the juicers themselves are IMO the most culpable.



Nonsense. Poor Barry is the victim of Baseball (read Bud Selig) being inept cowards. If baseball would have just tested for the steroids poor Barry never would have taken them. He should sue MLB for ruining his good name.

samram
05-28-2006, 09:12 PM
His previous comments concerning Barry have been utterly scathing without being libellous/slanderous

The fun part of talking about Barry is you can be the former without being the latter since he's basically already admitted to doing everything he's been accused of. Thanks Barry!!

The Racehorse
05-28-2006, 09:17 PM
Who's Barry Bonds?

getonbckthr
05-29-2006, 12:00 AM
Congrats Barry!:bandance:

Frontman
05-29-2006, 12:09 AM
No I wouldnt compare the two, but my point is steriods were (sadly) not illiegal so any player could have done them....does that make it right? absolutely not. but obviously in the olympics they are illegal.

Of course when you choose to ignore the actual LAWS in the land, and not cling to the fact that baseball didn't ban the use of an illegal substance. That's when this point of view is justified. "Just because its a law doesn't mean anything, its the rules of baseball that applies." Bonds is a human piece of garbage, he'll get the cover of SI this week, then we can all go back to enjoying baseball again.

Oh, by the way. Baseball also doesn't have a rule against murder in the rulebooks, so as long as you kill someone during the course of a 9 inning game and you are in the game, its ok; since baseball doesn't have a rule against it.

:D:

Nellie_Fox
05-29-2006, 02:10 AM
No I wouldnt compare the two, but my point is steriods were (sadly) not illiegal so any player could have done them....does that make it right? absolutely not. but obviously in the olympics they are illegal.Thank you Frontman. They were illegal under federal law for the whole time that Bonds was using them. In my world, criminal law supercedes MLB rules.

D. TODD
05-29-2006, 02:14 AM
Congrats Barry! I'm no fan, but it is a hell of an accomplishment. He played in an era that used steroids, to what extent nobody is sure. "Greenies were used illegally by federal law for years but commonplace in baseball throughout Pete Rose's hit record and numerous other acheivements. I may not like what went on but the man was the best of his era and he has the most home runs ever by a left handed hitter and the second most homers ever. CONGRATS!

PaleHoseGeorge
05-29-2006, 09:04 AM
Do you ever wonder why fans like D. Todd and cbotnyse are so ignorant to the facts about juicing, baseball, and the law? Here's your answer, a sportswriter for the LA Times who wrote this in a "special" to page 1 (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/chi-0605290091may29,1,5788922.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed) of today's Cubune sports...

Bonds, who remains at the epicenter of an enduring controversy about whether he used steroids, put himself on a different plateau in the hierarchy of sluggers when he swung on a 3-2 pitch from Byung-Hyun Kim of the Colorado Rockies and sent the ball soaring over the fence just to the right of straightaway center field, an estimated 445 feet from home plate.
Earth to Thomas Bonk. Barry already ADMITTED he took steroids. There is no controversy. He never denied taking them. He testified under oath to a grand jury that he took steroids to save his ass from going to jail. He now faces perjury charges for claiming he took them unknowingly -- but the fact he took them is beyond any controversy. BONDS ADMITTED IT.

I realize Thomas Bonk is an ignorant sportswriter, one of thousands employed around the nation, so ****ing up such a basic fact in such an important front page news story is common. However, is it too much to ask for a competent EDITOR to correct such a basic point before letting the inaccuracy get printed several hundred thousand times so the TRULY IGNORANT like D. Todd and cbotnyse aren't here posting utterly delusional nonsense?

Is this too much to ask?
:o:

cbotnyse
05-29-2006, 09:30 AM
Do you ever wonder why fans like D. Todd and cbotnyse are so ignorant to the facts about juicing, baseball, and the law? Here's your answer, a sportswriter for the LA Times who wrote this in a "special" to page 1 (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/chi-0605290091may29,1,5788922.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed) of today's Cubune sports...


Earth to Thomas Bonk. Barry already ADMITTED he took steroids. There is no controversy. He never denied taking them. He testified under oath to a grand jury that he took steroids to save his ass from going to jail. He now faces perjury charges for claiming he took them unknowingly -- but the fact he took them is beyond any controversy. BONDS ADMITTED IT.

I realize Thomas Bonk is an ignorant sportswriter, one of thousands employed around the nation, so ****ing up such a basic fact in such an important front page news story is common. However, is it too much to ask for a competent EDITOR to correct such a basic point before letting the inaccuracy get printed several hundred thousand times so the TRULY IGNORANT like D. Todd and cbotnyse aren't here posting utterly delusional nonsense?

Is this too much to ask?
:o:

I dont think I'm posting utterly delusional nonsense...I said that I do not like Barry and I am aware he took steriods, but I'm looking at it with the fact that most players took them as well, and Barry still destroyed the record books......Barry is a jerk and a cheater, but he is a talented hitter....

Red Barchetta
05-29-2006, 09:38 AM
Anyone know who got the ball? I saw the replay and noticed the ball fell down into the centerfield hitting background "wasteland". I've never been to SBC or AT&T Park so I don't know what's down there. I heard some fan waiting for beer in the concourse got the ball. Is that true? If you're in SF, how can you go for concessions and/or bathroom when Bonds is attempting to pass Babe Ruth?! Lucky for him if it's true.

Frontman
05-29-2006, 11:17 AM
Anyone know who got the ball? I saw the replay and noticed the ball fell down into the centerfield hitting background "wasteland". I've never been to SBC or AT&T Park so I don't know what's down there. I heard some fan waiting for beer in the concourse got the ball. Is that true? If you're in SF, how can you go for concessions and/or bathroom when Bonds is attempting to pass Babe Ruth?! Lucky for him if it's true.

Possibly this is a perfect "in a nutshell" view of what Bonds means to baseball. "I'd rather get a beer, peanuts, and BBQ sandwich than watch him make 'history.'" (Not that's what the guy who got the ball said, but actions sometimes do speak louder than words. Either that, or its a perfect sign of intelligence for Bonds fans! "DUDE!!! I got beer, peanuts, a BBQ sandwich AND Barry Bonds ball! That's awesome!!!!!")

cbotnyse
05-29-2006, 11:22 AM
i thought this was a great zing for Barry....http://view.break.com/97207

PaleHoseGeorge
05-29-2006, 11:40 AM
I dont think I'm posting utterly delusional nonsense...I said that I do not like Barry and I am aware he took steriods, but I'm looking at it with the fact that most players took them as well, and Barry still destroyed the record books......Barry is a jerk and a cheater, but he is a talented hitter....

If you understand Barroids started taking steroids before the 1999 season and that he only had 411 homeruns before he started juicing, and you understand the 304 he has hit since then were on the juice... then yes, YES... you most definitely are posting utterly delusional nonsense.

Any hall-of-fame caliber ballplayer can hit 304 homeruns on juice. It's not even remotely a feat. Hell, even Jose Canseco hit 462 on juice! And if you still disagree, explain why you suppose Barroids hit over 40 percent of his dingers AFTER he started taking the juice, a grandpa of a ballplayer, already 34 and moving into the twilight of a normal ballplayer's career?
:o:

If Grandpa Barroids' 73* is the single-season record, I have no doubt a juicer will hit well over 100 in my lifetime -- that's how pathetic and insignificant Barroids' accomplishments truly are. But you go right ahead thinking otherwise...
:?:

cbotnyse
05-29-2006, 11:48 AM
If you understand Barroids started taking steroids before the 1999 season and that he only had 411 homeruns before he started juicing, and you understand the 304 he has hit since then were on the juice... then yes, YES... you most definitely are posting utterly delusional nonsense.

Any hall-of-fame caliber ballplayer can hit 304 homeruns on juice. It's not even remotely a feat. Hell, even Jose Canseco hit 462 on juice! And if you still disagree, explain why you suppose Barroids hit over 40 percent of his dingers AFTER he started taking the juice, a grandpa of a ballplayer, already 34 and moving into the twilight of a normal ballplayer's career?
:o:

If Grandpa Barroids' 73* is the single-season record, I have no doubt a juicer will hit well over 100 in my lifetime -- that's how pathetic and insignificant Barroids' accomplishments truly are. But you go right ahead thinking otherwise...
:?:

so you think Barry is a hall-of fame caliber player? you are such a moron!!! :redneck just kidding.....do you wonder why he gets so much support in SF? I wonder what some people's opinion would be around here if he was on the White Sox?

PaleHoseGeorge
05-29-2006, 11:50 AM
so you think Barry is a hall-of fame caliber player? you are such a moron!!! :redneck just kidding.....do you wonder why he gets so much support in SF? I wonder what some people's opinion would be around here if he was on the White Sox?

Barry was a hall of fame ballplayer BEFORE 1999. He won back to back MVP awards for the Pittsburgh Pirates, a far greater accomplishment than anything he ever did post-1998. He didn't need to juice. UNDERSTAND?

I'm getting tired of giving you these remedial baseball knowledge lessons.

viagracat
05-29-2006, 11:50 AM
Heard several people on the radio express doubt Bonds will ever catch Aaron even though he only needs 40 to do so. Look how long it took him to hit his last two. He's getting old, man.

Here's hoping Aaron's record stays intact until ARod or Pujols breaks it.

cbotnyse
05-29-2006, 11:52 AM
Barry was a hall of fame ballplayer BEFORE 1999. He won back to back MVP awards for the Pittsburgh Pirates, a far greater accomplishment than anything he ever did post-1998. He didn't need to juice. UNDERSTAND?

I'm getting tired of giving you these remedial baseball knowledge lessons.

yeah but i just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance :D:

jehosaphat
05-29-2006, 12:13 PM
I remember as a boy in the 60s looking at the Street & Smiths yearly preview and studying the records. As I got older and wiser, it became evident to me that baseball records were not all that meaningful, given the different eras players competed. For example, would Babe Ruth had hit 714 had African Americans been allowed to play in the major leagues? Probably not - he would have faced better pitching. To be more modern, would Rickey Henderson had as many stolen bases had he played where there were only 8 teams in the league? Probably not - there would have been better pitchers to keep him off base, better catchers to throw him out, and playing games on turf undoubtedly helped him as well. Point being is about all that really be said is that Maury Wills was the greatest base stealer in his era and Rickey Henderson was the greatest in his era, and quantitative measures across different eras are poor measures to indicate who was or was not the "greatest base stealer of all time". Nevertheless, baseball records are interesting because the link our present game to the past, and the history of the game is rich.

Which brings us to Bonds and 715. In my opinion he is undoubtedly one of the most talented players of all time, and it is a shame that he took steroids because he actually became "less talented" when he became a big slow guy who hits a lot of homeruns instead of a "Mays" like 5-tool player. As Game of Shadows documents, he became obsessed with getting "home run records" due to the attention fellow cheaters McGuire and Sosa received, and he took steroids in order to hit more home runs (I believe he took them for personal glory not to necessarily help his team win games). The steroids worked and he has the single season record and eventually will probably have the career record.

So where does that leave us? It leaves me with a lot less interest in the record book than when I was 10 years old and looking at the back pages of Street & Smith's. Records simply don't matter that much to me as a fan. Bonds' records in particular are something to avoid paying too much attention to, including out of respect for those who played the game and earned their accomplishments without taking performance enhancing drugs.

Time to watch the Sox - 2 run homer by a "non-juiced" Thome!

SoxEd
05-29-2006, 02:13 PM
Anyone know who got the ball? I saw the replay and noticed the ball fell down into the centerfield hitting background "wasteland".

On British TV we got the Fox affiliate in SF's coverage of Barry hitting his historic 715*.

They said it fell down in to a food vending area, and that the ball was snagged by a guy who was buying a hotdog.

StockdaleForVeep
05-29-2006, 02:28 PM
Pujols seems to have no problems with him....eh

SoxEd
05-29-2006, 02:50 PM
For those of you who are (like MarySwiss) interested in the UK media's take on Barry. The rest of you should just skip this boring dreck...:wink:

Firstly, links to stories in our (proper) newspapers:
These are all about Barry reaching 714; I guess any '715' stories might come out tomorrow (today is a Bank Holiday here, so the journos will all have been out 'on the pop' over the long weekend).

The Guardian (http://sport.guardian.co.uk/americansports/story/0,,1780908,) (check out its headline!).

The Independent (http://sport.independent.co.uk/general/article549833.ece).

The Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&gri).

The Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,10371-2191158,00.htm).

BBC online has allready got its '715' story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/baseball/5026090.stm) up - check out the last three paragraphs.

Lastly, here is what they said on our Sunday night baseball show about it all.

The programme started half an hour early in order to cover the story - we had clips from ESPN's 'Bonds on Bonds' and game footage from the Fox affiliate in SF.

What was interesting were the comments from the UK anchors:
After the British anchor asked him about it, our American co-presenter Josh Chetwynd (who has just finished his training as a Lawyer in AZ) remarked that Barry probably agreed to do the 'Bonds on Bonds' show becasue it is produced by an entertainment company, rather than by journalists/a 'news' company.

The Brit remarked that Barry hit 714 in Oakland - 'the home of BALCO'.

After they showed Barry's postgame PC, at which BB said the current Giants team is 'the best he has ever played in', Josh commented that Jeff Kent was a MUCH better sporting fit for Barry, hitting adjacent to him in the lineup, but that Barry didn't get on with him so well.

They talked through all his stats - and especially mentioned how long it took him to hit his first 100 HR's, then how long it took him to get to 300, then 400, then 500, then 500 to 700.
They mentioned how long it took him before he had his first 20HR season, then his first 40 HR season (both 'normal' time frames), and how long it took him to jump to 50 & 70+ HR seasons.
All the while, they were showing historical Barry footage - from his days as a skinny base-stealer with Pittsburgh, down to his bloaty slugger days in SF.

The British anchor said that seeing Barry hit 715, whilst it was certainly a noteworthy achievement, left him feeling 'an immense sadness', because of all the steroids business.

Later in the show, Josh was called-out by an email from a viewer, accusing him of being consistently 'anti-Barry'.
He replied that he is not 'anti-Barry' per se, but that Barry has ALWAYS been a very 'complicated' player - both in terms of his relations with the media, his team, his family, and now the drugs issue.

He described Barry's life as being like some old Greek play - here's a supremely talented, five-tool player, probably headed to the HOF, who has "allegedly" used steroids to cheat and therefore totally tarnished his reputation.

When asked 'should Barry go to Cooperstown or not?', he replied yes - and added that he also thought Pete Rose should get in :o:.

At the end of the show, the anchor remarked that he'd received many more pro-Barry emails than anti-Barry ones, and rsaid he thought Barry was probably better-liked over here than over there.

I will be emailling the show to disabuse him of that notion.
:redneck

Frontman
05-30-2006, 06:13 AM
They had a story on ABC evening news yesterday about the guy who got the ball. Listed his occupation as a "sports memoriabilia dealer." Like that's a surprise........