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View Full Version : Official* Sox Beat Themselves 5/27/06 Post Game Thread


DickAllen72
05-27-2006, 07:47 PM
Uribe shouldn't start another game until he loses ten pounds. :angry:

And if McCarthy can't get his **** together, he should be starting games in AAA instead of sucking in the bullpen.

Go Tribe tonight!

SoxSpeed22
05-27-2006, 07:47 PM
You blow that many opportunities, you lose, period.

HotelWhiteSox
05-27-2006, 07:48 PM
Contreras gets hosed again

Sox hurt themselves in the 6th when they couldn't get anyone in with the bases loaded.

Also, in the 11th, thought it was stupid to ask Juan to bunt when he doesn't do it often, facing a pitcher with a 7+ ERA who can't get righties out.

Positive, ummm, I've liked seeing Thornton progress since the Spring

CHISOXFAN13
05-27-2006, 07:48 PM
Uribe shouldn't start another game until he loses ten pounds. :angry:

And if McCarthy can't get his **** together, he should be starting games in AAA instead of sucking in the bullpen.

Go Tribe tonight!

Well said. It would also be nice if Podsednik learned how to lay down a SAC bunt.

This was the most painful game to watch this season. Horrendous execution.

santo=dorf
05-27-2006, 07:48 PM
Ozzie has to send some kind of message to Uribe. I have no idea where his head has been this season.

Erik The Red
05-27-2006, 07:48 PM
Currently, Cleveland's pissing down their legs again in Detriot.

sox230
05-27-2006, 07:48 PM
These are the f****n games we won last year. Remember those 1-run games that made us so good? Yeah, not anymore. Jim Thome 0-6, 3 K's. He has abslutely sucked lately, so has Uribe, per normal. I can't take this anymore. What cha gunna do Oz?:angry: :angry: :angry:

chisoxmike
05-27-2006, 07:49 PM
Not going to win a lot of games when you play like **** and leave 13 on base.

Yesterday we lost, today we got beat. Go avoid the sweep tomorrow.

SOXBOY
05-27-2006, 07:49 PM
The Sox had chances just didn't get it done.Offense is in a slump right now.

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 07:49 PM
Uribe's failure to put down a bunt and then the double play he hit into cost a run. Before that his bad throw to first cost a run. I love watching him make great plays, but I wonder how long it is going to be before KW gets tired of his terrible plate discipline and go looking for someone else. Does anyone know how Julio Lugo is doing in the field this year?

oeo
05-27-2006, 07:50 PM
Uribe shouldn't start another game until he loses ten pounds. :angry:

And if McCarthy can't get his **** together, he should be starting games in AAA instead of sucking in the bullpen.

Go Tribe tonight!

Woah...wait a second, you're putting all the blame on Uribe and McCarthy? Did you not watch that anemic offense today? That was terrible, opportunity after oppurtunity to score runs and they didn't do a thing. This was terrible by every member of that team outside of Jose and Thornton, the only two guys that got the job done today.

Mr. White Sox
05-27-2006, 07:51 PM
Juan was terrible today. He gave up a run on defense and gave up a couple on offense. I'll pull a Shoota and say that he should have been 0/5 today if it weren't for some outstanding baserunning.

Thome was bad, but you can't blame him. He's had to face Lilly, Ryan and Schoeneweis (all LHP) over two days. Tough.

Oh and the umps sucked, costing Brandon some pitches as well as Scotty an at-bat.

chisoxmike
05-27-2006, 07:51 PM
Oh and the umps sucked, costing Brandon some pitches as well as Scotty an at-bat.

The umps didn't leave 13 on base...

Chisox1500
05-27-2006, 07:52 PM
They looked like crap all around today. A horrible effort. With Garland going tomorrow... I'm glad it's only May.

oeo
05-27-2006, 07:53 PM
Uribe's failure to put down a bunt and then the double play he hit into cost a run. Before that his bad throw to first cost a run. I love watching him make great plays, but I wonder how long it is going to be before KW gets tired of his terrible plate discipline and go looking for someone else. Does anyone know how Julio Lugo is doing in the field this year?
Well...there were more opportunities than that. I'm wondering why Thome isn't hearing anything? He can't come through with a clutch hit for the life of him lately...work the count.

I'm not blaming Uribe for this loss, because it isn't his fault, it was a terrible team effort. But, the only reason he has a job is because of his defense, and if he can't turn an easy double play and he can't hit the ball, Cintron should get a shot as his job.

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 07:53 PM
These are the f****n games we won last year. Remember those 1-run games that made us so good? Yeah, not anymore. Jim Thome 0-6, 3 K's. He has abslutely sucked lately, so has Uribe, per normal. I can't take this anymore. What cha gunna do Oz?:angry: :angry: :angry:

Yeah Thome whiffs a lot, but IMO the real problem is the lack of production from the bottom of the order and, even more so, the failure to bunt when we need to. Pods bunted the ball to the pitcher instead of towards third base, and others on the roster (Juan) can't even get a bunt down.

We used to do that so well.

santo=dorf
05-27-2006, 07:54 PM
Does anyone know how Julio Lugo is doing in the field this year?
Did you sleep through the D-Rays-Sox series? He's beyond awful.

Mr. White Sox
05-27-2006, 07:54 PM
The umps didn't leave 13 on base...

Yeahhhh...I just saw that on the box score. :o: Only one XBH all day too (Crede's 2B).

Law11
05-27-2006, 07:55 PM
Not going to win a lot of games when you play like **** and leave 13 on base.

Yesterday we lost, today we got beat. Go avoid the sweep tomorrow.

You nailed it!

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 07:55 PM
The only players who shouldn't be ashamed of their performances today are Crede, Contreras, and Thornton.
The offense should have gotten AT LEAST 4 runs off of the garbage pitching we faced today. Yesterday, the team looked like it wasn't trying, but it was written off because of Garcia's performance - the game was a loss anyway. Today there is no excuse. They wasted a great performance by Jose, and failed to win a game they should have taken 5 times over.
Ozzie needs to start smashing things in the clubhouse. They are playing like horse**** right now, and something needs to wake them up.

MrX
05-27-2006, 07:55 PM
Uribe will catch a lot of crap, as he should, but Mackowiak''s defense in CF has been almost as bad. If he doesn't misplay the flyball in the 2nd Uribe throwing the ball away doesn't happen.

The offense was Cubesque today

Law11
05-27-2006, 07:57 PM
Yeah Thome whiffs a lot, but IMO the real problem is the lack of production from the bottom of the order and, even more so, the failure to bunt when we need to. Pods bunted the ball to the pitcher instead of towards third base, and others on the roster (Juan) can't even get a bunt down.

We used to do that so well.

Thome hasnt had a key hit in WEEKS!
His Hrs seem to come when we're up.

Twice today he leaves huge runs on Base..
And Uribe.. Uggggh

UofCSoxFan
05-27-2006, 07:57 PM
Also, in the 11th, thought it was stupid to ask Juan to bunt when he doesn't do it often, facing a pitcher with a 7+ ERA who can't get righties out.


When a guy is hitting .190 he needs to be able to bunt. Period. End of discussion.

MarySwiss
05-27-2006, 07:57 PM
This kind of stuff will happen to all teams through the course of a season. And two losses is not exactly a slump. Can we all please calm down?

And I really have a problem with people turning on Thome, Wednesday's Pick to Click winner and the guy that provided much of our April spark.

Okay, Detroit is playing out of their minds so far. Cleveland did the same thing last year, and look what happened. Personally, I would much rather see our competition get it out of their systems early in the season than during the stretch run.
We'll be fine. :cool:

EDIT: I just read some of the posts that popped up on here while I wrote my post. And all I have to say is...well, nothing, because what would be the point?

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 07:59 PM
Well...there were more opportunities than that. I'm wondering why Thome isn't hearing anything? He can't come through with a clutch hit for the life of him lately...work the count.

I'm not blaming Uribe for this loss, because it isn't his fault, it was a terrible team effort. But, the only reason he has a job is because of his defense, and if he can't turn an easy double play and he can't hit the ball, Cintron should get a shot as his job.

It's really kind of hard to get down on Thome about anything because his huge production has won us a lot of games when our starters weren't performing well. Since Thome is the DH, he can't contribute negatively to our defense. Uribe on the other hand, like you said, is here because of his defense, so when he fails it only amplifies his lack of production. The thing that really gets me about Uribe though is that last year he seemed to be a lot better at hitting sac flies and laying down a decent bunt.

If Juan goes 0-4 but saves a run on defense and puts down a sac bunt, everything is fine. When he has a bad day on the field, doesn't hit, and can't execute the fundamentals he is just terrible.

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 07:59 PM
Thome hasnt had a key hit in WEEKS!
His Hrs seem to come when we're up.

Twice today he leaves huge runs on Base..
And Uribe.. Uggggh
You really embarrassed yourself in the game thread today. This loss blows, but we will get over it. Go take a nap.

batmanZoSo
05-27-2006, 08:00 PM
Yeah Thome whiffs a lot, but IMO the real problem is the lack of production from the bottom of the order and, even more so, the failure to bunt when we need to. Pods bunted the ball to the pitcher instead of towards third base, and others on the roster (Juan) can't even get a bunt down.

We used to do that so well.

Guess what? Pods sucked last year at bunting. Last year at this time, that was a fluke. This team is much better, but it isn't squeaking out all those one-run victories like that team did. Doesn't mean anything. It's a long season. Detroit will get theirs in time.

That's baseball. Go get 'em tomorrow.

oeo
05-27-2006, 08:01 PM
Uribe will catch a lot of crap, as he should, but Mackowiak''s defense in CF has been almost as bad. If he doesn't misplay the flyball in the 2nd Uribe throwing the ball away doesn't happen.

The offense was Cubesque today
Well Mackowiak is not a starting centerfielder...Brian is. And if he could get his act together, we wouldn't have that problem.

There are a lot of things that aren't going very well right now, and I still don't think we've seen the best this team can do, even when they're winning games. Inconsistent pitching, defense, and timely hitting and they're still sitting at 31-17. Hopefully the Tribe doesn't roll over for the Tiggers tonight like everyone else seems to do and we can stay 2.5 back.

We will win this division, I don't have any doubts about that...Detroit is going to falter. Start playing that baseball that we all know you can play, Sox. I can't watch this **** your "playing" right now.

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:01 PM
Did you sleep through the D-Rays-Sox series? He's beyond awful.

That's kind of what I thought. Even though I didn't catch much of the Ray series, he's always had that rep. No one else looks available though, so maybe Alex will get a few more starts now.

JB98
05-27-2006, 08:01 PM
Folks, here's the thing: We cannot expect the middle of our order to bang the ball out of the park everyday. Sometimes, you need execution from the bottom of the order.

Sixth inning, bases loaded, one out. Mackowiak and Uribe cannot get the job done. In the 11th, we get three hits but no runs because our .200-hitting shortstop cannot get a bunt down. Those two innings, that's why we lost.

I can't believe some are throwing Thome under the bus. This man CARRIED us all April. He didn't get it done today, but so what? Others had golden opportunities to pick him up. They failed miserably. Someone in the game thread claimed Thome hasn't had a big hit in weeks, and that he's an all-or-nothing hitter. What an ignorant statement. He just had the go-ahead hit in our last victory, a single off Haren in our 3-2 win over Oakland.

Brian26
05-27-2006, 08:02 PM
Does anyone know how Julio Lugo is doing in the field this year?

Good grief.

DickAllen72
05-27-2006, 08:04 PM
Uribe will catch a lot of crap, as he should, but Mackowiak''s defense in CF has been almost as bad. If he doesn't misplay the flyball in the 2nd Uribe throwing the ball away doesn't happen.


The thing is, Mackowiak isn't out there because of his defense. He's out there because our starting centerfielder can't hit his weight. Mackowiak is playing an average centerfield. He makes the routine plays but doesn't make the more difficult ones. But he does hit, and his hustle in the second led to a run.

Uribe isn't hitting his playing weight, is ten pounds over that, and is still starting because of his usual great defense. Thing is, his defense isn't very good lately.

It's time for Uribe to be taken out of the starting lineup and be ordered to get into shape.

We simply can't afford to have both Anderson and Uribe in the lineup at the same time hitting the way they are, and certainly can't afford to have Uribe hitting like this when his defense is costing us runs.

oeo
05-27-2006, 08:05 PM
Folks, here's the thing: We cannot expect the middle of our order to bang the ball out of the park everyday. Sometimes, you need execution from the bottom of the order.

Sixth inning, bases loaded, one out. Mackowiak and Uribe cannot get the job done. In the 11th, we get three hits but no runs because our .200-hitting shortstop cannot get a bunt down. Those two innings, that's why we lost.

I can't believe some are throwing Thome under the bus. This man CARRIED us all April. He didn't get it done today, but so what? Others had golden opportunities to pick him up. They failed miserably. Someone in the game thread claimed Thome hasn't had a big hit in weeks, and that he's an all-or-nothing hitter. What an ignorant statement. He just had the go-ahead hit in our last victory, a single off Haren in our 3-2 win over Oakland.
I'm not throwing Thome under the bus. But he IS supposed to be a big RBI guy for us, and he has had huge opportunities in which he choked. He's a DH, it's his job to drive in runs, and an 0-6 day with 3 K's is not doing his job.

And it wouldn't bother me as much if he'd give good at-bats. But he's not, he's going up there and looking at strikes and swinging at balls.

ElevenUp
05-27-2006, 08:07 PM
As much as I apprecite Uribe for what he did last year, he is really struggling now and costing the team games both with his glove and bat. I wouldn't be surprised if he sat down for a few games. In fat, at this point, I would encourage that.

JB98
05-27-2006, 08:07 PM
Thome hasnt had a key hit in WEEKS!
His Hrs seem to come when we're up.

Twice today he leaves huge runs on Base..
And Uribe.. Uggggh

This is the third time I've posted this in the last hour, and it's the last time I'm going to say it. Thome had the go-ahead hit in our last victory over Oakland. That was huge, and it came off a tough pitcher.

Reading is a skill. You should try it.

MarySwiss
05-27-2006, 08:08 PM
This is the third time I've posted this in the last hour, and it's the last time I'm going to say it. Thome had the go-ahead hit in our last victory over Oakland. That was huge, and it came off a tough pitcher.

Reading is a skill. You should try it.

Thank you! You are not alone.

RadioheadRocks
05-27-2006, 08:09 PM
Meanwhile the Indians are on the board vs. the Tigers. 2-1 Detroit, top of the 4th. Let's not be too hasty conceding another game in the standings just yet.

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:11 PM
This is the third time I've posted this in the last hour, and it's the last time I'm going to say it. Thome had the go-ahead hit in our last victory over Oakland. That was huge, and it came off a tough pitcher.

Reading is a skill. You should try it.

Agreed. No player or group of players should be relied upon to come through every single game. When there is a runner on third with less than two outs, he has to come home. It doesn't matter who is at the plate. If this team would execute like it is supposed to, nobody would be mentioning Thome.

Law11
05-27-2006, 08:11 PM
This is the third time I've posted this in the last hour, and it's the last time I'm going to say it. Thome had the go-ahead hit in our last victory over Oakland. That was huge, and it came off a tough pitcher.

Reading is a skill. You should try it.

Youre right I was wrong.. I guess an 0-6 day with 3 k's and 5 guys LOB
had me a bit PO'd..

He had a bad day and I over reacted...
I'm banning myself until Friday.

ndgt10
05-27-2006, 08:12 PM
Thome hasnt had a key hit in WEEKS!
His Hrs seem to come when we're up.

Twice today he leaves huge runs on Base..
And Uribe.. Uggggh

Didn't Thome have an RBI single late in a game in the Oakland series that put us ahead?

Edit: Just saw that someone posted this earlier.

DickAllen72
05-27-2006, 08:14 PM
As much as I apprecite Uribe for what he did last year, he is really struggling now and costing the team games both with his glove and bat. I wouldn't be surprised if he sat down for a few games. In fat, at this point, I would encourage that.

Hehehe... :redneck

Dick Allen
05-27-2006, 08:14 PM
What bothers me about this loss is that we have Garland going tomorrow, and then have to face Sabathia on Monday. This could turn into a 4-game losing streak very easily.

oeo
05-27-2006, 08:15 PM
Agreed. No player or group of players should be relied upon to come through every single game. When there is a runner on third with less than two outs, he has to come home. It doesn't matter who is at the plate. If this team would execute like it is supposed to, nobody would be mentioning Thome.

Like I said above, it's not just that he didn't get a hit. He didn't even put together a good at-bat. If he works the count, he's a better hitter. And even if he doesn't get a hit, at least he made the pitcher work.

I understand he can't get the big hit every game, and I'm not putting that pressure on him. But show me some good at-bats when you go 0-6, and I won't even notice you went 0-6.

oeo
05-27-2006, 08:17 PM
What bothers me about this loss is that we have Garland going tomorrow, and then have to face Sabathia on Monday. This could turn into a 4-game losing streak very easily.

Garland hasn't been that bad lately, or even this year. The only thing that worries me is the anemic offense we've seen the last 2 games.

JB98
05-27-2006, 08:17 PM
I'm not throwing Thome under the bus. But he IS supposed to be a big RBI guy for us, and he has had huge opportunities in which he choked. He's a DH, it's his job to drive in runs, and an 0-6 day with 3 K's is not doing his job.

Jim is the big RBI guy for us. He leads the entire ****ing league in HRs and RBIs. He had a bad day. Was anyone there to pick him up? Did anyone else step up and get a big hit? Can anyone besides Pablo get a ****ing bunt down? After all Jim has done for us these first 48 games, I think he deserves a break. We can't expect him to carry the mail everyday. For about the first 30 games of the season, his production covered up a lot of our warts. Now that Thome (and Dye and Crede) have cooled a bit, our problems on defense and our poor execution of offensive fundamentals are much more noticeable.

WSox8404
05-27-2006, 08:19 PM
Jim is the big RBI guy for us. He leads the entire ****ing league in HRs and RBIs. He had a bad day. Was anyone there to pick him up? Did anyone else step up and get a big hit? Can anyone besides Pablo get a ****ing bunt down? After all Jim has done for us these first 48 games, I think he deserves a break. We can't expect him to carry the mail everyday. For about the first 30 games of the season, his production covered up a lot of our warts. Now that Thome (and Dye and Crede) have cooled a bit, our problems on defense and our poor execution of offensive fundamentals are much more noticeable.

The bunting situation really irks me. For a team with Ozzie at the helm you would think they would be able to lay down a sac bunt once and a while. There is absolutely no excuse for that. That is Cubesque pure and simple.

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:20 PM
Like I said above, it's not just that he didn't get a hit. He didn't even put together a good at-bat. If he works the count, he's a better hitter. And even if he doesn't get a hit, at least he made the pitcher work.

I understand he can't get the big hit every game, and I'm not putting that pressure on him. But show me some good at-bats when you go 0-6, and I won't even notice you went 0-6.

He didn't come up there with one out and the bases loaded, swing at two balls way off the corner and take a strike right over the plate for a three pitch K.

Thome isn't the problem.

Dick Allen
05-27-2006, 08:20 PM
Garland hasn't been that bad lately, or even this year. The only thing that worries me is the anemic offense we've seen the last 2 games.Check Garland's numbers, he's been bad enough. Can't afford to have him give up too many runs, you saw what happened with Garcia Friday. I hope I'm wrong about him.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 08:24 PM
I guess my concern is (outside of Detroit being hotter then the sun) that the Sox can't seem to win on the road anymore. 3-7 in their last ten road games, I think 12-11 for the season.

Couple that with going 8-8 over their last sixteen and they aren't clicking right now.

Lip

oeo
05-27-2006, 08:24 PM
Jim is the big RBI guy for us. He leads the entire ****ing league in HRs and RBIs. He had a bad day. Was anyone there to pick him up? Did anyone else step up and get a big hit? Can anyone besides Pablo get a ****ing bunt down? After all Jim has done for us these first 48 games, I think he deserves a break. We can't expect him to carry the mail everyday. For about the first 30 games of the season, his production covered up a lot of our warts. Now that Thome (and Dye and Crede) have cooled a bit, our problems on defense and our poor execution of offensive fundamentals are much more noticeable.
Calm down, I'm not trying to get in an argument with you. I already said that it wasn't Thome's fault, I said it was a team loss.

Yes, he has given us a lot of RBI's. What I was saying is I still expect him to drive in those big runs. Maybe it is asking too much of one guy, but there's a reason he's here. He's drove a lot in, and he's had a chance to drive more than that...maybe he's trying too hard, I don't know.

I'm in no way blaming anything on him. Like you said, he carried this team when our pitching wasn't working. It just makes me really angry when there is a huge opportunity and four pitches later, he's out. Like I said before, it's not that he went 0-6, it's how he went 0-6. Take some pitches and make them give something to you. Same thing with that terrible at-bat by Mackowiak with the bases loaded. Swings at 2 pitches that aren't even close, and watches one go right down broadway. Thome is the man, but he's hit or miss.

HotelWhiteSox
05-27-2006, 08:25 PM
Great postgame comments by Ozzie

Quit putting blame on Uribe, his glove will be there, and you should take offense as a bonus. Was stupid to ask him to bunt in that situation

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:25 PM
Check Garland's numbers, he's been bad enough. Can't afford to have him give up too many runs, you saw what happened with Garcia Friday. I hope I'm wrong about him.

What worries me is that there isn't a guy in Toronto's lineup aside from McDonald who is known for the extra base hit. I just hope our offense shows up tomorrow.

itsnotrequired
05-27-2006, 08:25 PM
Damn, Ozzie sounded pretty honked off in the post game show.

DickAllen72
05-27-2006, 08:26 PM
Did anyone just see Ozzie's post game comments???

He said he's "not going to put up with this **** much longer!" He said we didn't execute and this was a "horse-****" game. He said with 14 hits we should have scored more than 2 runs. "People are just hitting, not executing." If they want to play like that I'll make big changes to this lineup." (Paraphrasing, but close)

Gotta love Ozzie!

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:27 PM
Great postgame comments by Ozzie

Quit putting blame on Uribe, his glove will be there, and you should take offense as a bonus. Was stupid to ask him to bunt in that situation

Why the hell would Ozzie say something like that? Uribe looks worse and worse every time he comes to the plate. Bunting was the right call, but Juan couldn't get it done.

chisoxfanatic
05-27-2006, 08:27 PM
*sigh* Poor execution all game long from this team. But, as defending world champions still with a great record, I'm not getting worried AT ALL!!!

One thing to add is that, perhaps we should pull BabyFisk's priveleges of attending Sox games. :cool:

JB98
05-27-2006, 08:28 PM
The bunting situation really irks me. For a team with Ozzie at the helm you would think they would be able to lay down a sac bunt once and a while. There is absolutely no excuse for that. That is Cubesque pure and simple.

Of all our "small-ball" players, Pablo is the only one doing his job. He came off the bench and helped us again in the ninth inning. Other than that, the execution has been pathetic.

Dick Allen
05-27-2006, 08:28 PM
If Uribe can't bunt, he shouldn't be in there. Either that, or #$^*%& teach him how to bunt!:angry:

DickAllen72
05-27-2006, 08:28 PM
Great postgame comments by Ozzie

Quit putting blame on Uribe, his glove will be there, and you should take offense as a bonus. Was stupid to ask him to bunt in that situation
:?:

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:28 PM
*sigh* Poor execution all game long from this team. But, as defending world champions still with a great record, I'm not getting worried AT ALL!!!

I don't think anyone is really worried, just upset because we all know this team is much, much better than this.

DickAllen72
05-27-2006, 08:29 PM
Why the hell would Ozzie say something like that? Uribe looks worse and worse every time he comes to the plate. Bunting was the right call, but Juan couldn't get it done.

Ozzie didn't say that. That's the poster's opinion. And it's wrong.

Uribe used to be able to bunt, and that was absolutely the right thing for him to do in that situation. Uribe failed to execute. Period.

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:30 PM
Ozzie didn't say that. That's the poster's opinion. And it's wrong.

Oh ok. That didn't make sense at all.

itsnotrequired
05-27-2006, 08:33 PM
One thing to add is that, perhaps we should pull BabyFisk's priveleges of attending Sox games. :cool:

I'm betting he didn't wear the wolf costume.:D:

JB98
05-27-2006, 08:36 PM
Ozzie didn't say that. That's the poster's opinion. And it's wrong.

Uribe used to be able to bunt, and that was absolutely the right thing for him to do in that situation. Uribe failed to execute. Period.

Agree with you 100 percent. If anything, Ozzie erred in not ordering Uribe to bunt again with the count 0-2. If Uribe chokes on his third bunt attempt, it is simply strike three, as opposed to a GIDP.

Optipessimism
05-27-2006, 08:38 PM
Agree with you 100 percent. If anything, Ozzie erred in not ordering Uribe to bunt again with the count 0-2. If Uribe chokes on his third bunt attempt, it is simply strike three, as opposed to a GIDP.

If Ozzie made any error in that situation is was not sending Cintron to the plate. But, I don't think Ozzie made an error at all there. Uribe is your starting SS and your starting SS should know how to lay down a bunt.

FloridaSox
05-27-2006, 08:47 PM
We will win this division, I don't have any doubts about that...Detroit is going to falter. Start playing that baseball that we all know you can play, Sox. I can't watch this **** your "playing" right now.

I wonder if the Twins were saying that about us last year at this time.

JB98
05-27-2006, 08:49 PM
If Ozzie made any error in that situation is was not sending Cintron to the plate. But, I don't think Ozzie made an error at all there. Uribe is your starting SS and your starting SS should know how to lay down a bunt.

Truthfully, I probably would have had Uribe swing away on 0-2 as well. But I wouldn't have been upset if Ozzie had ordered him to bunt again.

I'm glad our manager is pissed about this loss. I'm pretty pissed too. This, and the choke in the last game against the Devil Rays are probably the two losses we've had that have angered me most this year.

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 08:51 PM
I wonder if the Twins were saying that about us last year at this time.
:rolleyes:

soxchick20
05-27-2006, 08:57 PM
what a great birthday gift.........another sox loss! we need to win tomorrow, garland needs to bring it on, and the offense needs to shape up....no more strike outs jimmy!!!!!

:happybday not really

jongarlandlover
05-27-2006, 08:57 PM
Garland hasn't been that bad lately, or even this year. The only thing that worries me is the anemic offense we've seen the last 2 games.

Thank you! Thank God there's someone else who doesn't think that Garland sux.

MarySwiss
05-27-2006, 08:57 PM
:rolleyes:

I congratulate you on your restraint! :tongue:

Ol' No. 2
05-27-2006, 08:59 PM
Truthfully, I probably would have had Uribe swing away on 0-2 as well. But I wouldn't have been upset if Ozzie had ordered him to bunt again.

I'm glad our manager is pissed about this loss. I'm pretty pissed too. This, and the choke in the last game against the Devil Rays are probably the two losses we've had that have angered me most this year.I agree with you. Even with a 0-2 count, lay the *&^(*)#*&^#@ bunt down. At worst it's a strikeout. When he's hitting .330, he can have a pass on bunting. Until then, he's a black hole.

Lack of execution almost all the way down the line. It's not just getting a bunt down, they couldn't even manage a sac fly when they had the chance. Lilly dared them to reach out and smack one of his curveballs into RF last night and no one could (would) do it. If it hadn't been for Ozuna, they would have sleepwalked to a 2-1 loss in 9 innings today. Dare I say it??? The last two games looked a lot like Corpseball again.

SOXSINCE'70
05-27-2006, 09:02 PM
With Uribe's offensive woes,it might be time to start Cintron
or Ozuna at SS for a game or two.The Sox should just hang
a sign around his neck,"automatic out".At least he has been
lately.Yeah,ok,he had 2 hits and an RBI today,but in the 10th,
after Anderson reached,he failed to lay down a bunt and hit into
a DP,rendering Podsednik's 2 out single useless.
The offense has really sucked as of late.
C'mon,guys,get back to doing what made this team a champion.
Sacrifices,bunts,hit and run plays,they've all vanished.
I hope it's just me,but that "swing for the fences" mentality
is beginning to rear its ugly head.And if the damn Kitties keep
beating the cupcakes on their schedule,there may be some
trouble for the Sox somewhere down the road.

Hey,it's only late May,but teams that dig themselves an
early hole find out that the hole might turn into a ditch if
the ship isn't righted quickly.Let's avoid the sweep and win
tomorrow.

chisoxfanatic
05-27-2006, 09:02 PM
I'm looking for a Hangaresque rant by HomeFish right about NOW...

bigsqwert
05-27-2006, 09:04 PM
Moments away from a 3.5 game defecit to the 2005 White Sox...I mean Tigers.

MarySwiss
05-27-2006, 09:04 PM
I'm looking for a Hangaresque rant by HomeFish right about NOW...

...and I'm sure you'll get one!

JB98
05-27-2006, 09:08 PM
I agree with you. Even with a 0-2 count, lay the *&^(*)#*&^#@ bunt down. At worst it's a strikeout. When he's hitting .330, he can have a pass on bunting. Until then, he's a black hole.

Lack of execution almost all the way down the line. It's not just getting a bunt down, they couldn't even manage a sac fly when they had the chance. Lilly dared them to reach out and smack one of his curveballs into RF last night and no one could (would) do it. If it hadn't been for Ozuna, they would have sleepwalked to a 2-1 loss in 9 innings today. Dare I say it??? The last two games looked a lot like Corpseball again.

It's too bad Ozuna is subpar defensively. If we could bat him eighth or ninth, maybe he could give us a little spark down at the bottom of the lineup. At the very least, I know he can get a bunt down, and I know he can put the ball in play when the situation requires it. But what position do you put him at? He's terrible at SS. That's why KW had to acquire Cintron.

oeo
05-27-2006, 09:08 PM
I wonder if the Twins were saying that about us last year at this time.
Maybe so, but one thing: 2005 Sox > 2005 Twins. And 2006 Sox > 2006 Tigers.

MarySwiss
05-27-2006, 09:12 PM
Moments away from a 3.5 game defecit to the 2005 White Sox...I mean Tigers.

:rolleyes:

oeo
05-27-2006, 09:21 PM
:rolleyes:
My exact reaction.

The 2006 Tigers are NOT the 2005 White Sox, stop comparing the two. Maybe they had a good start, good for them, but they're still not the 2005 White Sox and that team, IMO, does not have what it takes to go the distance. No one is helping us out, and we shouldn't need help. We'll just have to beat them ourselves, just like the Indians last year and the Indians were a better team last year than the Tigers are this year.

BTW, what Sox fan has a nickname of bigsqwert?

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 09:23 PM
Moments away from a 3.5 game defecit to the 2005 White Sox...I mean Tigers.
You're going to feel like a real imbecile when the Tigers finish in third place.

No, acutally, you will probably say "I knew it all along" after Kenny Rogers' second half ERA ends up over 5 and Chris Shelton finishes the year batting in the .280s with under 25 homers.

bigsqwert
05-27-2006, 09:26 PM
My exact reaction.
BTW, what Sox fan has a nickname of bigsqwert?

This coming from someone with a nickname used for the Tigers rightfielder.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 09:30 PM
Roman:

The Tigers may finish in second but they won't finish in 3rd.

Lip

StillMissOzzie
05-27-2006, 09:30 PM
The 2006 Tigers are NOT the 2005 White Sox, stop comparing the two. Maybe they had a good start, good for them, but they're still not the 2005 White Sox and that team, IMO, does not have what it takes to go the distance. No one is helping us out, and we shouldn't need help. We'll just have to beat them ourselves, just like the Indians last year and the Indians were a better team last year than the Tigers are this year.


Nobody in MLB is going to play at an above .700 clip for the entire season. Nobody. The Tigers will have to cool off at some point.

That said, with Uribe hitting well below the Mendoza line, not execting the bunt, and his defense somewhat less than sparkling, maybe he's due for a few days off to remedy the cranial/rectal inversion he's afflicted with.

SMO
:gulp:

beckett21
05-27-2006, 09:31 PM
I always find it helpful to refrain from posting for a few hours after a loss like that one. Helps keep things in perspective.

The Sox beat themselves today, plain and simple. That's going to happen over the course of 162 games. On the plus side, Contreras continues to look great and Thornton keeps impressing as well.

Ozzie will light a fire under these guys. I expect a big win tomorrow.

As for Detroit, I've been too stubborn to give them any credit yet. They have been impressive, no doubt about it. It's just hard for me to wrap my brain around the idea that they are legitimate contenders because they have been so bad for so long.

There are tough times ahead for the Tigers. They haven't hit a rough patch yet. They will soon. If they don't, and they continue to play above a .700 clip, what else can you do but tip your cap to them?

If they can play .700 ball all season, then they deserve to win the division. If they are still ahead of the Sox in August, then maybe I will acknowledge them as a serious threat. My bet is that they won't be, so until then I refuse to worry.

Hitmen77
05-27-2006, 09:32 PM
Alot of blame to go around. I'm jumping on the bandwagon of those who want to throw Uribe on the bus. Tons LOB and poor defense.

Just like in that last Cubs game, he failed to turn a key double play. If he turns those two double plays, we win those two games. Add that to his .190 average and that's pretty brutal.

Wasn't just a few weeks ago that people here were saying the Sox are "scary good"?

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 09:34 PM
What are the odds that in two consecutive seasons a team from the Sox division would get hotter then the sun for a seven week stretch?

Actually what Detroit is doing is kind of a compliment to the Sox. They have strong starting pitching, a lights out bullpen, they are winning the close games with timely hits, winning a ton of road games and they simply aren't losing divisional games.

That's an exact copy of the Sox 2005 recipe for success.

Still a very long season but Detroit isn't going to go away. Perhaps the Sox should try to revert back a mite to that 2005 philosophy that served them so well. Pitching, speed, defense and fundamentals.

Lip

beckett21
05-27-2006, 09:39 PM
Alot of blame to go around. I'm jumping on the bandwagon of those who want to throw Uribe on the bus. Tons LOB and poor defense.

Just like in that last Cubs game, he failed to turn a key double play. If he turns those two double plays, we win those two games. Add that to his .190 average and that's pretty brutal.

Wasn't just a few weeks ago that people here were saying the Sox are "scary good"?

Two losses on the road to a tough team does not change the fact that the Sox are still "scary good". Can't win them all.

I think it is a mistake to get too high after a win or too low after a loss. Looking at this team's body of work so far they are 31-17. That is pretty damn good in my world.

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 09:41 PM
Roman:

The Tigers may finish in second but they won't finish in 3rd.

Lip Yes, because the Indians are a bad team. The Tigers are not playing over their heads at all, and the Indians have shown that they are done after getting off to bad starts.:rolleyes:
The Tigers are playing WAY over their heads, and they are only 3.5 games up on a Sox team that has yet to play good this year. The Indians are playing like crap, and they are still around .500. The Indians WILL finish ahead of the Tigers.

soxwon
05-27-2006, 09:42 PM
Roman:

The Tigers may finish in second but they won't finish in 3rd.

Lip

not to the lowlife indians
watch clev get swept by det
then gives us fits!!!

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 09:45 PM
Beck:

Not disagreeing with what you have said, just more like playing 'devil's advocate.'

Some of these losses though the last three weeks aren't to 'good teams.' Tampa Bay? the Cubs? a loss to Anaheim? Minnesota's under .500 last I looked (although the Dome is the great equilizer).

There were some games the Sox flat gave away after leading in the 7th inning, games to clubs that frankly shouldn't even be on the same field as the Sox.

Something is off right now. I can't put my finger on it. For lack of a better word I'll use focus.

That's where Ozzie steps in...and I think it's time for that.

Lip

Applem2
05-27-2006, 09:47 PM
What are the odds that in two consecutive seasons a team from the Sox division would get hotter then the sun for a seven week stretch?
Lip

Remember, the Oakland A's were hotter than the sun from late May to mid-August last year-they went from 15 games under to 17 games over;then they cooled off considerably. The Nationals were 25-6 from late May to the beg. of July.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 09:48 PM
Roman:

I said at the start of the year I couldn't understand why everyone was saying the Indians were going to be so great given that they 'traded' in essence, Millwood and Elarton for Johnson and Byrd and lost half their bullpen.

Cleveland is a .500 club in my opinion unless they suddenly come up with a ton of pitching.

Now I'm not going to tell you that I thought Detroit would do this but unless they totally collapse (and I don't think Leyland will allow that) or get three or four major injuries they won't finish in 3rd.

Besides if you'd like to back up your statement please PM me, I think we can agree on a wager.

Lip

bigsqwert
05-27-2006, 09:48 PM
The Indians WILL finish ahead of the Tigers.

Sabathia can't pitch everyday of the week.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-27-2006, 09:49 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=260527114

"If they're not willing to play, there's going to be a lot of changes to this lineup pretty soon"

"The execution was terrible, horrible. We didn't lose this game because of a home run, we lost this game because we didn't do what we're supposed to do on the field from the first inning. We didn't bunt the ball when we were supposed to bunt the ball."

"If they want to be a bad team, they can continue to do that, I'll play somebody else. I don't care who they are and what they do. My job is to try and win games and that's what I'm going to do. If they don't like what I say, they can leave and do whatever they want to do," Guillen said. "We're better than this. We're way better than this. If you want to be in second place, keep playing like that. If you want to win, we have to be better and that starts right now. It's not because Detroit is winning."

I will have to concur with chisoxfanatic and pin the loss again on Baby Fisk. :smile:

Time to win tomorrow and get back on track vs. the Toons. Hopefully Ozzie's return to the bench will spark the team as they will not have the sanctuary of the dugout with Ozzie at 3rd.

beckett21
05-27-2006, 09:50 PM
Beck:

Not disagreeing with what you have said, just more like playing 'devil's advocate.'

Some of these losses though the last three weeks aren't to 'good teams.' Tampa Bay? the Cubs? a loss to Anaheim? Minnesota's under .500 last I looked (although the Dome is the great equilizer).

There were some games the Sox flat gave away after leading in the 7th inning, games to clubs that frankly shouldn't even be on the same field as the Sox.

Something is off right now. I can't put my finger on it. For lack of a better word I'll use focus.

That's where Ozzie steps in...and I think it's time for that.

Lip

I agree that the Sox are not clicking on all cylinders, and really haven't all season quite honestly.

That should be the most encouraging sign of all given that they are still playing at almost a .650 clip.

If Detroit weren't off to such a hot start, there wouldn't be so much hand-wringing around here. The Tigers will come back to earth. No doubt in my mind. They are NOT the best team in baseball. Period.

bigsqwert
05-27-2006, 09:51 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=260527114

"If they're not willing to play, there's going to be a lot of changes to this lineup pretty soon"

"The execution was terrible, horrible. We didn't lose this game because of a home run, we lost this game because we didn't do what we're supposed to do on the field from the first inning. We didn't bunt the ball when we were supposed to bunt the ball."

"If they want to be a bad team, they can continue to do that, I'll play somebody else. I don't care who they are and what they do. My job is to try and win games and that's what I'm going to do. If they don't like what I say, they can leave and do whatever they want to do," Guillen said. "We're better than this. We're way better than this. If you want to be in second place, keep playing like that. If you want to win, we have to be better and that starts right now. It's not because Detroit is winning."


I'm very pleased to hear Ozzie getting angry. They need something to get their head out of their butts.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 09:55 PM
Kudos to Ozzie for exploding. It's about time and I'm sure he'll back his words up if needed.

Lip

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 09:58 PM
What are the odds that in two consecutive seasons a team from the Sox division would get hotter then the sun for a seven week stretch?

Actually what Detroit is doing is kind of a compliment to the Sox. They have strong starting pitching, a lights out bullpen, they are winning the close games with timely hits, winning a ton of road games and they simply aren't losing divisional games.

That's an exact copy of the Sox 2005 recipe for success.

Still a very long season but Detroit isn't going to go away. Perhaps the Sox should try to revert back a mite to that 2005 philosophy that served them so well. Pitching, speed, defense and fundamentals.

Lip
:rolleyes:
Once again, this Detriot team- with many hitters and pitchers without proven track records, who are playing far over their heads- has been on fire, and will not come close to duplicating this streak after it ends. They are only 3.5 games ahead of the best team in baseaball - a team with many players with proven track records, who are not playing over their heads. The White Sox have played like crap for the majority of the season to date, and they are still only 3.5 games behind "the greatest team ever assmbled".

Believe it or not, Lip, the following things WILL happen this year:
*Uribe will hit above .200
*Anderson will hit above .200
*Chris Shelton will cool down even further
*The Tigers' team ERA will go higher than 3.29
*Your boy Kenny Rogers will have a bad second half again
*The Tigers will eventually have to take their great road record into Fenway, Rogers Centre, Yankee Stadium, and into the Cell many many more times
*The Sox will eventually put it all together, and go on streaks where their pitching and hitting does well

You better believe that any rational Tigers fan is pissing himself right now. This team is at hot as it will EVER be, and they are only 3.5 games ahead of the Sox.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 09:59 PM
Roman:

So do you care to make me an offer on 3rd place? :D:

Lip

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 10:05 PM
Beck:

Not disagreeing with what you have said, just more like playing 'devil's advocate.'

Some of these losses though the last three weeks aren't to 'good teams.' Tampa Bay? the Cubs? a loss to Anaheim? Minnesota's under .500 last I looked (although the Dome is the great equilizer).

There were some games the Sox flat gave away after leading in the 7th inning, games to clubs that frankly shouldn't even be on the same field as the Sox.

Something is off right now. I can't put my finger on it. For lack of a better word I'll use focus.

That's where Ozzie steps in...and I think it's time for that.

Lip OK, fine, but you have to remember:
Every team loses lots of games to bad teams, it happens over a course of 162.
The Sox have been around .500 during their current streak of playing like garbage. If "playing like garbage" constitutes a .500 clip, I can't imagine how we will do when the Sox actually start playing well.

Do you believe the Sox have played well so far this season? Most importantly, do you think they have played well LATELY?

If you answered no, then shut up and enjoy the ride. This is a good team, and sooner or later, they will play like it. You have watched baseball long enough to know that good teams go on bad spurts.
If we were playing well and losing to the Rays and Cubs, I would be concerned. When we are losing to them and playing our worst ball of the year, I can live with it.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-27-2006, 10:07 PM
Once again, this Detriot team- with many hitters and pitchers without proven track records, who are playing far over their heads- has been on fire, and will not come close to duplicating this streak after it ends. They are only 3.5 games ahead of the best team in baseaball - a team with many players with proven track records, who are not playing over their heads.

Detroit is moot. The only team that can beat the White Sox this year is the White Sox. Ozzie will make sure that doesn't happen. He expressed his anger and will ride the players who are lollygagging or not executing until they do hustle / execute or are replaced.

Ozzie will be in the dugout tomorrow and the players can rest assured to hear Ozzie's wrath if they deserve it. Something tells me he will not say a word and we will see a top effort from the team.

Baseball is a long season and every once in a while a team needs a kick in the ass. This is one of those times.

If Detroit is close to us after the trade deadline let me know. Otherwise, I am not concerned in the slightest.

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 10:10 PM
Roman:

So do you care to make me an offer on 3rd place? :D:

Lip
I'm not a betting man. Maybe I overestimate the Indians, but I think they will play considerably better than the Tigers during the second half. Even if the Tiger can save face and finish second, both teams will be behind the White Sox. Can we agree on that?

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 10:14 PM
Roman:

Don't be so touchy! :D:

Have the Sox played well lately? In fact no. 14-10 for the month so far, 8-8 in the last 16 games (against .500 or worse clubs)

Have the Sox played well at all this season. In my opinion yes. From April 9 through April 23 they went 12-1. The pitching (including the bullpen) was clicking. What happened since then...I'm not in the clubhouse so I can't say. To me the blown games by the pitching staff have been the biggest factor.

I guess where we simply disagree is that you think Detroit is all smoke and mirrors. I don't...in fact I do see some guys with a 'track record.'

Do I think they'll continue to play at a .700 pace? Of course not but I don't think they are going to fall off the face of the earth. They have an actual manager now, not an inexpereinced person.

That's why I was pleased to see Ozzie go off. He needs to do more of it.

Human nature being what it is, it is very hard to have the same hunger the year after you've won something.

That's why to me, making the playoffs again needs to be the goal as opposed to some who say, 'we have to win the series again...or even 'we have to win the division again.'

Just get back to the playoffs and take your chances. To do that they need to play harder then they have the past three weeks.

Lip

CLR01
05-27-2006, 10:15 PM
That's an exact copy of the Sox 2005 recipe for success.


Except the Sox owned everyone in the central division last year. If Detroit can't beat the Sox and the Sox play the way they are capable Detroit will not win the division. So far they have 3 strikes with 16 more chances. It will be a fun 2nd half.

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 10:19 PM
Detroit is moot. The only team that can beat the White Sox this year is the White Sox. Ozzie will make sure that doesn't happen. He expressed his anger and will ride the players who are lollygagging or not executing until they do hustle / execute or are replaced.

Ozzie will be in the dugout tomorrow and the players can rest assured to hear Ozzie's wrath if they deserve it. Something tells me he will not say a word and we will see a top effort from the team.

Baseball is a long season and every once in a while a team needs a kick in the ass. This is one of those times.

If Detroit is close to us after the trade deadline let me know. Otherwise, I am not concerned in the slightest. :thumbsup:
People are forgetting here that we are the best team in baseball, and we have yet to play good this season. It is all about the Sox. Even despite our recent woes, we are on pace to win 104. Does anyone think Detroit can win 105?
We play Detroit 16 more times, so it doesn't matter what they do. If we play White Sox baseaball the rest of the season, we win the division no matter how the Tigers do.

bigsqwert
05-27-2006, 10:21 PM
Except the Sox owned everyone in the central division last year.

Detroit is 22-7 vs the division so far.

CLR01
05-27-2006, 10:22 PM
That should be the most encouraging sign of all given that they are still playing at almost a .650 clip.

If Detroit weren't off to such a hot start, there wouldn't be so much hand-wringing around here. The Tigers will come back to earth. No doubt in my mind. They are NOT the best team in baseball. Period.

Exactly this isn't much different that August of last year. The Sox were "slumping" playing .500 ball well Cleveland was red hot winning at a .800 clip or whatever it was. The only difference is the Sox are not in first and there is still alot of baseball left.


Agreed about the Sox not having it all together yet. If they do ever put it together look out.

CLR01
05-27-2006, 10:23 PM
Detroit is 22-7 vs the division so far.

Good for them but they are still winless against the Sox. If they can't beat the Sox they won't get the division.

TheOldRoman
05-27-2006, 10:24 PM
Detroit is 22-7 vs the division so far.
You mean, while they have been on fire, they have beaten up the Royals, a slumping Twins team, and a slupming Indians team? Interesting.
What is their record against the White Sox?

MRKARNO
05-27-2006, 10:25 PM
This was probably the worst loss all year, but yeesh, keep things in perspective:

The Sox havent been playing up to par lately, but they still have the third best record in baseball, the second best in the AL, and a win% (.646) that puts them on track for 105 victories. There do not seem to be any fatal flaws on this team or anything to suggest we can't play better than we have been. The Sox will be fine, even if they go 5-6 games back of the Tigers while still having a .600 or better win percentage. Frustrating game, but its important to keep things in perspective.

JB98
05-27-2006, 10:31 PM
I think it's kind of funny how some parts of our fanbase have become exactly what we used to despise. Last year, we got off to a start like the one the Tigers are on now. The Boston/New York crowd laughed and said we'd never keep it up. And people on this board fumed about the blatant disrespect. The Sox played with chips on their shoulders, kept it up and won the whole thing.

Now, we're the ones scoffing at the Tigers, saying they'll never keep it up, accusing them of beating up on weak teams, talking about how they haven't played anybody, etc. Those of you who are dismissing the Tigers are just as arrogant as the people who dismissed the White Sox last year. How do you know they won't keep it up? Nobody knows for certain.

I do think we'll win the division because our pitching staff is deeper than Detroit's. But it isn't going to be handed to us. The Tigers aren't going to lose the division for us. And we aren't going to win it merely because we won it last year. We have to go out and earn it. To that end, Ozzie needs to make this team play more consistent and more fundamentally sound. We've dropped the ball (literally and figuratively) on multiple occasions this year. Today's game was the latest symptom.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 10:32 PM
Roman:

You have to give credit where credit is due (at least for now...) Granted those teams you mentioned aren't very good but Detroit's record against all of them in fact, is better then the Sox record against them collectively and individually.

That has to count for something.

The Sox do not want to put themselves in a position where they have to go say,13-3 head to head against Detroit to win it outright. That could be very,very difficult.

That's where those games against the Royals, Mariners and Devil Rays come in.

We'll see, it's a very long season. Both teams are playing well, Detroit right now is better...what happens after the trading deadline say if the Sox go out and get two stud relief pitchers is anyone's guess.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
05-27-2006, 10:35 PM
:tomatoaward

The Sox have 16 games remaining with the Tigers.

I think that at worst, the Sox will go 10-6 in those games, making up four games in the standings. In fact, I think the Sox could go 11-5 (six games) or even 12-4 (8 games) in those 16 games.

There's no reason to panic at this point. The Sox are "slumping" by playing .500 ball. When most teams "slump," they're playing .450 or worse. A swift kick to the rear will get the offense in gear; notice that the pitching has been fine (apart from Garcia having a rare poor start last night).

SouthSide_HitMen
05-27-2006, 10:39 PM
I think it's kind of funny how some parts of our fanbase have become exactly what we used to despise. Last year, we got off to a start like the one the Tigers are on now. The Boston/New York crowd laughed and said we'd never keep it up. And people on this board fumed about the blatant disrespect. The Sox played with chips on their shoulders, kept it up and won the whole thing.

Now, we're the ones scoffing at the Tigers, saying they'll never keep it up, accusing them of beating up on weak teams, talking about how they haven't played anybody, etc. Those of you who are dismissing the Tigers are just as arrogant as the people who dismissed the White Sox last year. How do you know they won't keep it up? Nobody knows for certain.

The White Sox had the best record in baseball the entire season last year. We are less than 1/3 into the season this year. It is not "arrogant" to not be wetting our pants after a two game losing streak or after the Tigers beat up on the Royals. It is called keeping an even keel during the long baseball season.

It is great for Tigers fans their team will probably finish over .500 for the first time since Bafiarocks was born but if you think we should care at this point about the Tigers you are mistaken.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 10:42 PM
Frater:

One thing in the Sox favor (and it could be big) is that they have more home games with Detroit then at Detroit. So far this year the Sox have the much better record at home then on the road (exact opposite of 2005.)

The other thing is that the last time to two play in September it's also in Chicago. (Although Detroit closes the season at home versus Kansas City :(: and Toronto while the Sox have to go to Cleveland and Minnesota, a much tougher stretch...)

Lip)

beckett21
05-27-2006, 10:48 PM
I think it's kind of funny how some parts of our fanbase have become exactly what we used to despise. Last year, we got off to a start like the one the Tigers are on now. The Boston/New York crowd laughed and said we'd never keep it up. And people on this board fumed about the blatant disrespect. The Sox played with chips on their shoulders, kept it up and won the whole thing.

Now, we're the ones scoffing at the Tigers, saying they'll never keep it up, accusing them of beating up on weak teams, talking about how they haven't played anybody, etc. Those of you who are dismissing the Tigers are just as arrogant as the people who dismissed the White Sox last year. How do you know they won't keep it up? Nobody knows for certain.

I do think we'll win the division because our pitching staff is deeper than Detroit's. But it isn't going to be handed to us. The Tigers aren't going to lose the division for us. And we aren't going to win it merely because we won it last year. We have to go out and earn it. To that end, Ozzie needs to make this team play more consistent and more fundamentally sound. We've dropped the ball (literally and figuratively) on multiple occasions this year. Today's game was the latest symptom.
JB,

What part of 'Totally Biased' don't you understand? :redneck

I always appreciate your insight. Solid post.

You are right in the fact that nobody knows for certain. The Tigers are winning the games they have to win to compete in the division. 22-7 is an excellent mark so far. By comparison, the Sox are 16-8, not too bad in their own right. The White Sox won the Series last year, so we know that they are not a fluke. They have earned their respect.

I don't expect the Tigers to just roll over to the Sox, but by the same token they have to start losing eventually. It's the law of averages. Their pitching staff, while impressive, is still very young and inexperienced with the exception of Rogers. Maroth is now on the shelf for at least a couple of weeks, with a possible elbow injury. Those arms are all going to be tired come the dog days of summer.

Looking at that team objectively, they are playing way over their heads. If they can sustain it all season, more power to them. I guess that the Sox have their work cut out for them then. But just as the Sox had to earn their respect last season, Detroit will have to sustain this success for the balance of the season to fully earn theirs.

I don't begrudge them any of their success so far. They have the best record in the game, so that speaks for itself. But their staying power is what I question.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2006, 10:52 PM
Beck:

Solid post yourself.

Lip

Chisox1500
05-27-2006, 10:55 PM
He justly tore into the team for a poor effort today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260527114


It's time to get serious 3 and half games is no longer cute.

beckett21
05-27-2006, 10:58 PM
Beck:

Solid post yourself.

Lip

Thank you Lip.

I don't always agree with you, but I always (okay, usually :D:) appreciate your posts as well.

I intend to continue to work under the assumption that we have the best team in baseball until proven otherwise. The Tigers need to worry about us, not the other way around. :cool:

CLR01
05-27-2006, 10:59 PM
I thought you were going to jump. :rolleyes:

JB98
05-27-2006, 11:03 PM
The White Sox had the best record in baseball the entire season last year. We are less than 1/3 into the season this year. It is not "arrogant" to not be wetting our pants after a two game losing streak or after the Tigers beat up on the Royals. It is called keeping an even keel during the long baseball season.

It is great for Tigers fans their team will probably finish over .500 for the first time since Bafiarocks was born but if you think we should care at this point about the Tigers you are mistaken.

Like I said, arrogance. You just ridiculed the Tigers right there in that post. How do you know the Tigers won't have the best record in baseball the rest of the year? You don't, and neither do I. Quite a few here are essentially saying, "We won last year. We have great talent. It's a given that we'll win again this year." I hope our players don't have that same attitude. When you develop that line of thinking, that's what gets you beat. We are 31-17 because we have a lot of great players. But attention to detail is what makes a talented team a champion. We had that quality last year. We don't have it yet this year. Ozzie is charged with getting us back to that level. I'm confident he will, but games like today are a reminder that there is still work to be done.

Go ahead, accuse me of dark cloudism and wetting my pants and all that ****. I've heard it all before. I'm a firm believer in the phrase, "Stay humble and stay hungry." You should always respect your opponents and take nothing as a given. I take comfort knowing Ozzie Guillen will not underestimate Detroit, Cleveland or anyone else. Thankfully, he is managing the team and not any of you.

BTW, the Sox have only played eight games this season against teams with a winning record. We are 3-0 against Detroit and 2-3 against Toronto. If the Tigers schedule is ****ty, well, then so is ours.

Bobbo35
05-27-2006, 11:07 PM
The offense today looked like plain ole dog crap. When you get that many hits and only score 2 runs, there is a big problem. All I have to say is get it together and avoid the sweep tommorow.

Cuck the Fubs
05-27-2006, 11:12 PM
Lots of solid posts in this thread.....

It's refreshing to see common sense win over ledge jumping.

You gotta pay the Tigers their props.....right now they are the best team per their record, and they are doing it the right way by beating the lesser opponents in their way. Who knows how they will end up, I think they are going to give us a battle the entire way....but I highly doubt they will keep up a .700 clip either.

As for our guys, a 2 game skid isn't the end of the world.....baseball is 162 game season, loaded with ups and downs throughout. Ozzie ripped some ass post game, and I am fairly certain the guys will respond. The Jays are not a poor team, so ya can't expect the Sox to throw their gloves onto the diamond and beat em.

Let's get our foucus back and win Sunday, then take care of buisness like the Tigers have been doing......

May the best team win.

Go White Sox!!!!!

spiffie
05-27-2006, 11:15 PM
You're going to feel like a real imbecile when the Tigers finish in third place.
Please tell me you're a betting man. Because we need to chat. I need some extra cash for the postseason.

edit: never mind I see you already quashed that idea.

That said, I'm just glad to see Ozzie is more concerned than some of the folks here who seem to think that as long as we put on the uniforms every day that eventually we will win the division just by being the White Sox. We have the luxury of such arrogance, Ozzie and the team don't, and thankfully they seem to be trying to avoid that.

DickAllen72
05-27-2006, 11:19 PM
I'm a firm believer in the phrase, "Stay humble and stay hungry." You should always respect your opponents and take nothing as a given. I take comfort knowing Ozzie Guillen will not underestimate Detroit, Cleveland or anyone else. Thankfully, he is managing the team and not any of you.


Well said.

JB98
05-27-2006, 11:26 PM
JB,

What part of 'Totally Biased' don't you understand? :redneck

I always appreciate your insight. Solid post.

You are right in the fact that nobody knows for certain. The Tigers are winning the games they have to win to compete in the division. 22-7 is an excellent mark so far. By comparison, the Sox are 16-8, not too bad in their own right. The White Sox won the Series last year, so we know that they are not a fluke. They have earned their respect.

I don't expect the Tigers to just roll over to the Sox, but by the same token they have to start losing eventually. It's the law of averages. Their pitching staff, while impressive, is still very young and inexperienced with the exception of Rogers. Maroth is now on the shelf for at least a couple of weeks, with a possible elbow injury. Those arms are all going to be tired come the dog days of summer.

Looking at that team objectively, they are playing way over their heads. If they can sustain it all season, more power to them. I guess that the Sox have their work cut out for them then. But just as the Sox had to earn their respect last season, Detroit will have to sustain this success for the balance of the season to fully earn theirs.

I don't begrudge them any of their success so far. They have the best record in the game, so that speaks for itself. But their staying power is what I question.

Beck, I'd say any club with a .714 winning percentage is playing over its head. The Tigers won't sustain that all season, I grant you. The question is whether they can sustain a .600 winning percentage over the long haul. If so, they are a threat to the Sox. Would I bet on Detroit to finish ahead of the Sox? No. But I just don't want our players to assume the Tigers are going to crap the bed. Until we see otherwise, we should operate under the notion that they'll challenge us all year. I'm sure Ozzie looks at the situation that way, and that's why I'm glad he's the manager and OldRoman (who thinks the Tigers will finish third) is not.

I think a lot of people will question Detroit's staying power, with good reason given their record the last several years. But last year, people questioned us for the exact same reasons, and many WSI posters (not you specifically) bristled. Now, we're sitting on the other side of the fence. We're the hunted, not the hunters. And to some extent I think we fans are acting like hypocrites by not respecting the surprise team in the league.

beckett21
05-27-2006, 11:28 PM
That said, I'm just glad to see Ozzie is more concerned than some of the folks here who seem to think that as long as we put on the uniforms every day that eventually we will win the division just by being the White Sox. We have the luxury of such arrogance, Ozzie and the team don't, and thankfully they seem to be trying to avoid that.

That's part of the beauty of being a fan. We do have the luxury of arrogance and complacency.

Ozzie and the Sox do not. That's why they get paid to do their jobs on the field, and we get to sit here and type away like raving lunatics without consequence. :redneck

beckett21
05-27-2006, 11:32 PM
Beck, I'd say any club with a .714 winning percentage is playing over its head. The Tigers won't sustain that all season, I grant you. The question is whether they can sustain a .600 winning percentage over the long haul. If so, they are a threat to the Sox. Would I bet on Detroit to finish ahead of the Sox? No. But I just don't want our players to assume the Tigers are going to crap the bed. Until we see otherwise, we should operate under the notion that they'll challenge us all year. I'm sure Ozzie looks at the situation that way, and that's why I'm glad he's the manager and OldRoman (who thinks the Tigers will finish third) is not.

I think a lot of people will question Detroit's staying power, with good reason given their record the last several years. But last year, people questioned us for the exact same reasons, and many WSI posters (not you specifically) bristled. Now, we're sitting on the other side of the fence. We're the hunted, not the hunters. And to some extent I think we fans are acting like hypocrites by not respecting the surprise team in the league.
I know exactly where you're coming from. I don't disagree with you in principle.

Of course we defended our guys last season--it's the bunker mentality of fandom. The Sox surprised the hell out of a lot of people last year. But they did it.

Kudos to Detroit if they can do it too. But I think it is natural to be skeptical of a team that just 3 short seasons ago won a total of 43 games.

Ozzie gets paid to worry about Detroit--I don't.

It's nice to be on the other side for once. :cool:

billyvsox
05-28-2006, 12:00 AM
Regarding the Tigers, I agree it is ok to be skeptical about their staying power. The Sox had finished 3 years in a row just behind the Twins, had a makeover and ruled the world in 2005. Detroit has flat out sucked the past 5 years, have basically the same team (except a great new manager), and have proven nothing.

I for one am glad they are beating the Tribe this weekend, because don't we all still believe they would likely be our biggest threat?

Uribe will be fine.

Mackowiak I like offensively, but NOT in CF. (up the middle Defense is key)

McCarthy needs ro be starting in AAA. He is clearly not equiooed for bullpen duty other then long relief. He dosen't have the make-up of a one inning guy.

We need serious bullpen help...now. This has been the key to the tigers success as it was for us last year.

Bunting drills at 7:00 am tommorrow.

chidonez
05-28-2006, 12:13 AM
A tough, close game to watch. If it weren't for the Tribe I wouldn't mind so much, but they'll come back to reality. And if not, we'll beat'em in the playoffs anyway. We're still playing pretty well, people.

GoSox2K3
05-28-2006, 12:32 AM
In the 4 games in Contreras's spot in the rotation since he went on the DL, we have lost all 4. In the first 2, we scored a bunch of runs, but gave up even more. Seeing how JC has pitched consistently all season, I have reason to expect that we would have won those 2 with him pitching.

Then, in the 2 games since he has returned, he's pitched very well and the Sox should have won - but our defense (specifically Uribe failure to turn two double plays) and/or tons of LOB gave the game away.

4 games - with those, we'd have a 1/2 game lead over Detroit right now.

OUCH.

TheOldRoman
05-28-2006, 12:37 AM
That said, I'm just glad to see Ozzie is more concerned than some of the folks here who seem to think that as long as we put on the uniforms every day that eventually we will win the division just by being the White Sox. We have the luxury of such arrogance, Ozzie and the team don't, and thankfully they seem to be trying to avoid that.

I'm sure Ozzie looks at the situation that way, and that's why I'm glad he's the manager and OldRoman (who thinks the Tigers will finish third) is not.

I don't think we will be handed the division or the World Series just because we put on the uniforms. I think the Tigers will finish 3rd, but I KNOW they will finish no higher than 2nd. That is not based on some devine decree that the Sox shall win. It is based on the fact that we are the best team in baseball. We have the talent and the manager to win this division. We have the track record of success. We will win the division... but NOT if we keep playing how we are right now.

I am not taking the Tigers for granted, but we are a better team than them. It isn't a knock on them, we are just a better team. If the Sox players take them lightly and just run through the motions, we will be sitting at home come October. However, and this is the most important part, I am basing my "we will win the division" statement on the fact that the Sox will eventually come around. I am very frustrated with the Sox' recent play, but I know they will put it together soon. I am glad Ozzie went off today, because someone needed to light a fire under our asses. My belief that we are a much better team than Detroit doesn't change the way we are playing now, and it doesn't change the way we should approach every game. We will put it together and win the division handily, not because Detroit and Cleveland aren't good, but because we are better. I never said we can stop trying.

Epark84
05-28-2006, 01:23 AM
I think detroit is here to stay. Will they keep up their current clip? no. But that pitching staff is pretty damn good. Verlander is a stud. Hes a future cy young. And magglio has returned to the form he was at when he was tearing it up on the south side. Its a good team. Look on the bright side. The sox arent playing great and the tigers are playing out of their minds. Most teams that are 20+games over .500 in may have 9-10 game leads over second place. The tigers are only 3.5 ahead and are playing unreal baseball. If they beat us they beat us...but there is a long way to go

SouthSide_HitMen
05-28-2006, 01:24 AM
Like I said, arrogance. You just ridiculed the Tigers right there in that post.......... Go ahead, accuse me of dark cloudism and wetting my pants and all that ****. I've heard it all before. I'm a firm believer in the phrase, "Stay humble and stay hungry." You should always respect your opponents and take nothing as a given. I take comfort knowing Ozzie Guillen will not underestimate Detroit, Cleveland or anyone else. Thankfully, he is managing the team and not any of you.

Wow - I love how certain posters show more respect toward any team they are currently worried about over the team they supposedly back.

Ridicule? The fact is the Tigers haven't finished over over .500 since the early 1990s or ahead of the White Sox since we played in Comiskey Park? Those are facts. To say that a team that has been nothing short of a debacle over the past two decades is in anyway comparable to a team that regularly competed for the division is ludicrous. A team has to earn respect. Sorry but 7 weeks of baseball proves nothing.

If you took the time to read my posts, you would note I said Ozzie was pissed about the latest effort and will take the steps to correct it. He also said he doesn't give a ****ing rats ass about Detroit. My posts are consistent with Ozzie's thoughts and most rational fan's thoughts about the initial few weeks of the season.

You can continue to worry about whatever it is you worry about. Detroit is not a better team than us. Period. Our staff is much better. Our fielding is better and I think our overall hitting is better. We've swept them so far this season. We beat Detroit 14-5 in 2005. Until they prove otherwise, we are the team to beat.

It is time for you to give the White Sox the credit they deserve and the benefit of the doubt. The whole Banana Splits / Gulliver's Travels Glum "We're doomed" act gets tiresome.

The season has just gotten started and the only team that can beat the White Sox are the White Sox, not the Detroit Tigers or anyone else in the American League.

itsnotrequired
05-28-2006, 01:26 AM
Wow - I love how certain posters show more respect toward any team they are currently worried about over the team they supposedly back.

Ridicule? The fact is the Tigers haven't finished over over .500 since the early 1990s or ahead of the White Sox since we played in Comiskey Park? Those are facts. To say that a team that has been nothing short of a debacle over the past two decades is in anyway comparable to a team that regularly competed for the division is ludicrous. A team has to earn respect. Sorry but 7 weeks of baseball proves nothing.

If you took the time to read my posts, you would note I said Ozzie was pissed about the latest effort and will take the steps to create it. He also said he doesn't give a ****ing rats ass about Detroit. My posts are consistent with Ozzie's thoughts and most rational fan's thoughts about the initial few weeks of the season.

You can continue to worry about whatever it is you worry about. Detroit is not a better team than us. Period. Our staff is much better. Our fielding is better and I think our overall hitting is better. We've swept them so far this season. We beat them 14-5 in 2005. Until they prove otherwise, we are the team to beat.

It is time for you to give the White Sox the credit they deserve and the benefit of the doubt. The whole Banana Splits / Gulliver's Travels Glum "We're doomed" act gets tiresome.

The season has just gotten started and the only team that can beat the White Sox are the White Sox, not the Detroit Tigers or anyone else in the American League.

SouthSide_HitMen = Ozzie Guillen :wink:

Ol' No. 2
05-28-2006, 01:28 AM
Beck, I'd say any club with a .714 winning percentage is playing over its head. The Tigers won't sustain that all season, I grant you. The question is whether they can sustain a .600 winning percentage over the long haul. If so, they are a threat to the Sox. Would I bet on Detroit to finish ahead of the Sox? No. But I just don't want our players to assume the Tigers are going to crap the bed. Until we see otherwise, we should operate under the notion that they'll challenge us all year. I'm sure Ozzie looks at the situation that way, and that's why I'm glad he's the manager and OldRoman (who thinks the Tigers will finish third) is not.

I think a lot of people will question Detroit's staying power, with good reason given their record the last several years. But last year, people questioned us for the exact same reasons, and many WSI posters (not you specifically) bristled. Now, we're sitting on the other side of the fence. We're the hunted, not the hunters. And to some extent I think we fans are acting like hypocrites by not respecting the surprise team in the league.There's one ENORMOUS difference between the 2006 Tigers and the 2005 White Sox. None of the 2005 White Sox starters put up ERA's very much better than their best career years. They had good, but not ridiculously good seasons. In contrast, the Tigers are winning with a group of starters that are pitching WAAAYYYY better than they ever have before. Two particular cases come to mind.

Consider these career/best year/2006 ERA's:
Robertson: 4.68/4.48/3.02
Maroth: 4.75/4.31/3.56

For the Tigers to continue to be successful, they have to rely on these two guys putting up numbers A FULL RUN better than their career best. These are not 24-year-old phenoms we're talking about. These are 28-year old veterans with demonstrated records of consistent mediocrity. Not...gonna...happen. To see why, consider the corresponding career/best/2006 WHIP numbers:

Robertson: 1.42/1.36/1.31
Maroth: 1.40/1.34/1.48

There's no corresponding improvement in these numbers. BAA show the same trends. They haven't suddenly turned the corner. They've been lucky, pure and simple.

Add in Rogers' annual second half slide and the chances of the Tigers keeping up this through the season are remote.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-28-2006, 01:32 AM
I think a lot of people will question Detroit's staying power, with good reason given their record the last several years. But last year, people questioned us for the exact same reasons, and many WSI posters (not you specifically) bristled. Now, we're sitting on the other side of the fence. We're the hunted, not the hunters. And to some extent I think we fans are acting like hypocrites by not respecting the surprise team in the league.

You keep bringing this pathetic argument up yet it has no basis in reality.

The White Sox regularly contended for the division over the past few years and were in first as late well into the season. The Tigers haven't had a winning season since 1993. They added Kenny Rogers. Big ****ing deal.

To compare the 2006 Tigers to the 2005 White Sox and their records coming into those seasons is ludicrous.

Most of us acknowledge the Tigers have improved and are likely to finish above .500. We also say it is meaningless as the White Sox are a better team. Only the most pessimistic fans think the Tigers are better than the White Sox, have better talent or think the Tigers will finish ahead of the White Sox based off less than 30% of the season.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-28-2006, 01:38 AM
SouthSide_HitMen = Ozzie Guillen :wink:

I know better than to come to a game thread after a loss. :wink:

Move over 1927 Yankees, here come the 2006 Detroit Tigers.

Ol' No. 2
05-28-2006, 01:47 AM
You keep bringing this pathetic argument up yet it has no basis in reality.

The White Sox regularly contended for the division over the past few years and were in first as late well into the season. The Tigers haven't had a winning season since 1993. They added Kenny Rogers. Big ****ing deal.

To compare the 2006 Tigers to the 2005 White Sox and their records coming into those seasons is ludicrous.

Most of us acknowledge the Tigers have improved and are likely to finish above .500. We also say it is meaningless as the White Sox are a better team. Only the most pessimistic fans think the Tigers are better than the White Sox, have better talent or think the Tigers will finish ahead of the White Sox based off less than 30% of the season.A better comparison for the 2006 Tigers might be the 2005 Orioles. On this date last year they were 30-17 and riding high, in first place 3.5 games ahead of the Yankees in the AL East (what a coincidence!). Someone remind me....how'd that turn out again???

On this date last year the Sox were 33-16. Tonight they are 31-17, so they are only 1.5 games behind last year's pace. They had lots of rough patches last year, too. If you recall, they got their asses handed to them in Tampa Bay. The baseball season isn't a sprint - it's a marathon. It only matters who's in first place at the end of the season. When the sun comes up on October 2, it won't be the Tigers. In fact, I'm betting on 3rd place, too.

SoxSpeed22
05-28-2006, 01:53 AM
I think we oughtta start worrying about the Sox road play before thinking about Detroit. They're 12-11 and only won 2 series on the road, this shouldn't be taken as a drak cloud statement, but great play on the road is what won the division last year.

Ol' No. 2
05-28-2006, 02:03 AM
I think we oughtta start worrying about the Sox road play before thinking about Detroit. They're 12-11 and only won 2 series on the road, this shouldn't be taken as a drak cloud statement, but great play on the road is what won the division last year.OTOH, they're much better at home this year, where last year they played worse at home than on the road. People get too hung up on these splits...home/away, day/night, first game of the series...etc, etc, etc. It doesn't make any difference where you win 'em, just so you win 'em.

PeteWard
05-28-2006, 02:15 AM
The baseball season isn't a sprint - it's a marathon.

Somebody call Maintenance! The cliche meter just blew up!

goon
05-28-2006, 02:16 AM
the white sox are the best team in baseball, they just aren't playing like it.

the tigers are not the best team in baseball, they are just playing like it.

that's where it ends, that's it and that's all, man.

samram
05-28-2006, 02:39 AM
Having listened to the late innings of the game and having read the game story, I would say Pods, Uribe, and Thome share this one. Pods needs to learn how get a god damn sac bunt down. Juan is just having a bad year and hopefully it won't carry out to the field (it hasn't for the most part so far). 0-6 with 3 ks from the third hitter makes it a lot harder to win.

Hopefully, Ty Taubenheim will provide a chance for an offensive outburst.

TheOldRoman
05-28-2006, 02:54 AM
A better comparison for the 2006 Tigers might be the 2005 Orioles. On this date last year they were 30-17 and riding high, in first place 3.5 games ahead of the Yankees in the AL East (what a coincidence!). Someone remind me....how'd that turn out again??? Exactly. And Chris Shelton is Brian Roberts.
2005 Brian Robers
April: .379, 8 HR, 26 RBI, .459 OBP, .726 slg
May: .358, 3 HR, 7 RBI, .440 OBP, .569 slg
June: .356, 2 HR 11 RBI, .407 OBP, .534 slg
July: .226, 3 HR, 11 RBI, .308 OBP, .396

2006 Chris Shelton
April: .326, 10 HR, 20 RBI, .404 OBP, .783 slg
May: .293, 1 HR, 8 RBI, .349 OBP. .373 slg

The biggest difference is Roberts didn't hit the wall until July, it took Shelton all of a month. The rest of Shelton's year is going to look a hell of a lot closer to his May than his April.

19 of Shelton's 30 hits in April were extra base hits. In contrast, only 4 of his 22 hits in May have been XBH. Shelton's average may still be good, but he is going to be more of a slow singles hitter than the power threat we saw in April.

Nellie_Fox
05-28-2006, 02:55 AM
I only heard the game on XM. What's up with Dye getting thrown out at third for a third out in the tenth? That's a fundamental of baseball; you don't get thrown out at third for the first or third out of an inning. Was he being waved around by Ozzie, or was it Dye having a head up butt moment?

TheOldRoman
05-28-2006, 03:00 AM
I only heard the game on XM. What's up with Dye getting thrown out at third for a third out in the tenth? That's a fundamental of baseball; you don't get thrown out at third for the first or third out of an inning. Was he being waved around by Ozzie, or was it Dye having a head up butt moment?
Crede's hit was a bloop between the RF and 2B. Dye slowed down going into 2nd, but then turned it on when he realized the ball fell.

Bill Naharodny
05-28-2006, 03:11 AM
I think we oughtta start worrying about the Sox road play before thinking about Detroit. They're 12-11 and only won 2 series on the road, this shouldn't be taken as a drak cloud statement, but great play on the road is what won the division last year.

Function of a team with questionable fundamentals and a spotty bullpen. Improve these areas and road wins follow.

ChiSoxPatF
05-28-2006, 04:22 AM
Maybe someone else said it but... umm.. guys... we've only lost two games in a row. I understand Ozzie's frustration because the last two games have been very lackluster fundamentally but why is everyone freaking out? We can't win them all and we're gonna lose a series here and there. If we've lost 4 of 5 series in this big 9 series stretch then I'll start worrying but until then I think everyone needs to realize that this is nothing in the big picture.

Mr. White Sox
05-28-2006, 06:17 AM
Hopefully, Ty Taubenheim will provide a chance for an offensive outburst.

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9803/11/lloyd.bridges.obit/link.bridges.jpg
"Taubenheim! Taubenheim! TAUBENHEIM!"

Grzegorz
05-28-2006, 06:45 AM
Uribe will catch a lot of crap, as he should, but Mackowiak''s defense in CF has been almost as bad. If he doesn't misplay the flyball in the 2nd Uribe throwing the ball away doesn't happen.

The offense was Cubesque today

Everyone has pointed out that Anderson has been poor offensively, but his defense is needed in the outfield.

Mackowiak has been hitting, that tends to cover some of the difficulties he's had in CF. Last week it was the communication between he and Dye which IMO caused Dye to drop the ball. Luckily, that play didn't cost the team against the A's.

Yesterday it was the read off the bad that caused the ball to drop in front of him; a prelude to the missed double play the lead to the Jays scoring and tying up the game.

Mackowiak is a great addition, but you do not force a guy to learn how to play CF on the fly. There's a learning curve to playing CF; anyone that has ever played that position at any level will tell you that.

Right now, if this team is not clubbing other teams into submission with their offense they have to do the little things to win: pitch (has been there in spots), play small ball ( the result of one-run games has been poor), & play defense (terrible).

Today, if I am Guillen Uribe sits and Anderson plays; Taubenheim is young, inexperienced, and has been wild for the Jays. That's why I go with Anderson over Mackowiak. I expect nothing less than to see this team to break out offensively today.

Jon, start earning your millions TODAY; we need a stopper we need YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Next stop Cleveland and the tribe is on the warpath after being hammered by the Tigers...

Grzegorz
05-28-2006, 06:49 AM
Crede's hit was a bloop between the RF and 2B. Dye slowed down going into 2nd, but then turned it on when he realized the ball fell.

There were two outs; why not bust ass? Just one of those moments...

Grzegorz
05-28-2006, 07:02 AM
Beck, I'd say any club with a .714 winning percentage is playing over its head. The Tigers won't sustain that all season, I grant you. The question is whether they can sustain a .600 winning percentage over the long haul.

I believe we agree; the Tigers will not keep playing at this clip. Maroth is out and that will cause Leyland to juggle his rotation. Hopefully that breaks the staffs stride.

The real question is when a team is playing at an outlandish clip what do you do as a team to stay within striking distance?

The White Sox are entering a difficult part of their schedule; I hope they're up for the challenge.

Optipessimism
05-28-2006, 07:25 AM
Sandy Alomar Jr., Moises Alou, Doug Brocail, Vinny Castilla, Jeff Conine, Rheal Cormier, Brian Jordan, Jeff Nelson, Todd Pratt, John Smoltz, Tim Wakefield, Woody Williams, Eric Young, Craig Biggio, Tom Glavine, Chris Hammond, Greg Maddux, Jose Mesa, Mike Remlinger, Ruben Sierra, Mike Timlin, Barry Bonds, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jamie Moyer, Terry Mulholland, David Wells

What do all these players have in common?

-All are free agents after this season
-All will be 40 or older in 2007
-All will be on the radar of the dumb ass Tigers organization


Keep this in mind. The Tigers sucked so bad for all these years because of stupid moves and stupid contracts to guys like Higginson, Young, Percival, etc. Kenny Rogers and Doug Jones were their latest moves that are destined to fail around midseason. I'm still not convinced they are a serious contender and I'm still not convinced that they are better than Cleveland, even with Cleveland's dog**** back of the rotation and bullpen.

The only thing to consider is that even though the Sox have posted a very good overall record, they are still not playing the baseball that they are capable of. Once they do, the Tigers will fall to second, and then to third after another surge by the Tribe.

SBSoxFan
05-28-2006, 09:54 AM
I only heard the game on XM. What's up with Dye getting thrown out at third for a third out in the tenth? That's a fundamental of baseball; you don't get thrown out at third for the first or third out of an inning. Was he being waved around by Ozzie, or was it Dye having a head up butt moment?
I saw it, and didn't even figure there'd be a throw. There were 2 outs and a little bloop down the right field line. Although I didn't notice JD slow up around second, as one poster mentioned, it did seem like he was running in sand the whole way!

Unfortunately, the right fielder Rios got a nice, belt high turf bounce, and threw a built to third. I've never heard of this guy, so I don't know if he's actually this good (.368 batting averge, cannon in right), or he made one great throw.

Hitmen77
05-28-2006, 10:49 AM
Beck, I'd say any club with a .714 winning percentage is playing over its head. The Tigers won't sustain that all season, I grant you. The question is whether they can sustain a .600 winning percentage over the long haul.

The only thing I'm worried about is whether the White Sox can sustain a .600 winning pct. If we do, we'll be in the playoffs no matter what other teams do.

But, this team has been playing alot more like the 2004 Sox lately. Lack of fundamentals, costly errors, unable to bunt, stranding runners. If the Sox keep playing like this, don't expect to see them anywhere close to a .600 winning pct.

beckett21
05-28-2006, 11:25 AM
Having listened to the late innings of the game and having read the game story, I would say Pods, Uribe, and Thome share this one. Pods needs to learn how get a god damn sac bunt down. Juan is just having a bad year and hopefully it won't carry out to the field (it hasn't for the most part so far). 0-6 with 3 ks from the third hitter makes it a lot harder to win.
Personally I was most ticked off about Pods' failure to get a good bunt down in the 9th. It would have been nice to have men on second and third with just one out, although Ryan went on to strike out the next two guys anyway. It might have changed Iguchi's approach at the plate and it would have changed the complexion of the whole inning.

I'm willing to give Thome a pass on this one. He's earned it. Considering lefties were batting .050 against Ryan on the season coming in (1 for 20) I can't really get too upset with him striking out in that situation.

My only concern with Uribe would be if he lets his lack of offense start to affect his defense. He has had a few lapses lately, but in the long run I'm not worried about him.