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View Full Version : Time for a little kindness: How would you fix the Cubs?


Flight #24
05-25-2006, 01:23 PM
OK, given the off-day & the incredible disparity between the 2 teams, let's show a little kindness & sympathy and figure out how to fix the North Side. They're arguably the biggest high-salaried flop in a while, up there with the Mets of a few years ago. So, with a minimum of intentional Isaiah-Thomas-with-the-Knicks-esque sandbagging of the franchise, what moves would you make? The key constraints (IMO) are that you keep playing in Wrigley, and you have about a $100M payroll to operate with, maybe even going to $110M.


(NOTE: I got this idea from the "North side fire sale" thread, but thought it was different enough to warrant its own discussion. If not, mods, please merge as appropriate.)

Hangar18
05-25-2006, 01:27 PM
If they were truly serious, Trade Everyone. Everyone, wood, Messiah
whoever is offering something, take it. Start entirely from scratch with a whole new 40 man roster and go forward from there.

obviously, im not a fan of that team so its easy for me to dismantle them without being attached to The Messiah and Kerry "brittle" Wood. Of course, if Id grown up rooting for that team, I woudlve jumped off that barge of garbage years and years ago, swam away and never looked back. Every time I hear someone say "ive been die-hard fan for (insert years here) OR "My grandparents made me a cub fan" I laugh and smile to myself. Nobody told them they had to STAY fans of that team (I cant quit the team dude, no way) reminds me of that monkey that sees the peanut butter behind the screen, but every time it touches the screen to get the snack, it gets Shocked. and it keeps doing it. year after glorious year,
for 98 plus years and counting hahhahaha.

Dan Mega
05-25-2006, 01:33 PM
1)Fire McPhail, Hendry, and the coaching staff (including the trainers). Clean house from management.

2)Wood will be off the books after this year, so let him walk.

3)I'd keep Zambrano, Prior, D Lee, Aramis, Eyre, Dempster, Marshall, Cedeno, and thats it. Maybe Wade Miller if he comes back and can stay healthy for another year or 2, since he'd be cheap.

4)Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. Money won't be a problem. Find some competent coaches that won't put up with BS from the media or fans. Groom guys in the minors but don't push them too hard too fast.

5)Hire a psychiatrist for Zambrano and a special trainer for Prior. Both have good arms and if they can stay healthy/out of the nut house, it wouldn't be a bad 1-2 punch.

It would take a few years but it would be a start.

Irishsox1
05-25-2006, 01:35 PM
As long as the Cubs are owned by the Tribune Corp, there is NO solution that can fix the problems. We're talking a core fundamental change in the way they draft, coach and the team and players general attitude toward the game of baseball. All of that must be addressed before anything involving the current situation can be changed. I believe it is that messed up.

miker
05-25-2006, 01:36 PM
Gatorade spiked with cyanide.

Hangar18
05-25-2006, 01:37 PM
To tell you the truth, if I bought that team (or "won" them in some kind of sick plea-bargain) Id get out of that Stadium. I dont care how or how much, Id build a park in the Arlington Heights area, and build a new stadium,
have it look Nothing like the old one. Playing in that stadium guarantees them they will not get post-season glory. Guaranteed.

Hangar18
05-25-2006, 01:40 PM
As long as the Cubs are owned by the Tribune Corp, there is NO solution that can fix the problems. We're talking a core fundamental change in the way they draft, coach and the team and players general attitude toward the game of baseball. All of that must be addressed before anything involving the current situation can be changed. I believe it is that messed up.


You know what. Your Right. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA. They would have to do MOVE AWAY, move the team to another area, then let another organization (The Devil Rays?) move here. The would involve probably the Flubs changing their name, but hey, if an entirely different Organization was playing there, theyd have a chance. A very good chance.
I think the 5% of "real" fans would welcome this change.

maurice
05-25-2006, 01:40 PM
Trade Everyone.

This is pretty close to the truth. Assuming for the sake of argument that Hendry can rebuild this team, it will take several years and most of the current roster will be dumped, including his 2006 free agent class. He can "sell high" with his bullpen and get pretty good prospects around the trade deadline (though he might need to eat some salary again).

The only guys over the age of 27 that I would even consider retaining are Lee (the franchise) and Walker (doesn't mind getting jerked around on a crappy team).

sullythered
05-25-2006, 01:42 PM
The management needs to go. With it, they need to trash the idea that they can contend in the next couple years. Like previous posters have noted, Wood is out of their hair after this season. They won't be able to get equal value for Lee, so hold onto him. I would explore deadline deals to move Eyre, Howry, Williamson, and Ramirez. The first three, because good pen help always brings good prospects at the deadline. Ramirez because his bat has value to a contender, and I think he's the wrong kind of guy to have during a rebuilding. They could move Prior, but I think he wouldn't bring much value in return, at this point, and his own potential outweighs where his trade value stands. Get a psychologist and a better pitching coach and keep Zambrano. He's got way too much upside, and he's been healthy. Everyone else is expendable, if the young talent coming back is worth it.

It's been prooven that a team can start, basically, from scratch and be a contender in under five or six years. The question is, do the Cubs have the stones to make the commitment? I doubt it.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-25-2006, 01:43 PM
Have MacPhail send me over a 7 figure check and I'll help clean up his mess. :cool:

mantis1212
05-25-2006, 01:50 PM
Fire Dusty Baker, hire an interim manager until the end of the season. Then pick up Pinella.

Trade Maddux, Barrett, and Walker at the deadline, and see if anyone's interested in Prior or Wood. Let Wood walk if you can't trade him.

I would even try to work out something for Zambrano, if the price is right. That guy just does not have a winning attitude, much like Barrett and Dusty.

Keep DLee, rebuild the offense around him and Aramis.

The key is to SIGN more free agents at reasonable prices in the off-season, then trade them as needed. The team can afford a high payroll even during a rebuilding process.

jackbrohamer
05-25-2006, 01:51 PM
Contract the team and put the whole sorry lot out of their misery for good.

Hitmen77
05-25-2006, 01:57 PM
How to fix the Cubs....

- Call Tribune reports in and chastize them for being too negative on the Cubs
- have the team's radio broadcasters yammer on about how great the Wrigley experience is
- Use my newspaper to assure the Sox get less coverage. What coverage the Sox do get, should usually be filled with back-handed insults.
- Increase ticket prices. Also, make sure to scalp my own tickets to idiotic fans
- Portray any fan incidences at Wrigley as "passionate fans".
- Run a front page story on October 3rd about crime and drugs around the Cell (because we're pretty sure the Sox will start postseason play that day)
- fill my editorial page with comments from Cub fans about terrible Sox fans and bad experiences at the Cell.


....oh wait, you asked how would I fix the Cubs. I'm sorry, I though you were asking how I think the Tribune will fix the Cubs. My bad. :redface:

Iwritecode
05-25-2006, 02:04 PM
To tell you the truth, if I bought that team (or "won" them in some kind of sick plea-bargain) Id get out of that Stadium. I dont care how or how much, Id build a park in the Arlington Heights area, and build a new stadium, have it look Nothing like the old one.

Looking at it from an ownership POV, I'd be torn on what to do with it. On one hand, it's a cash cow that draws in people no matter how good or bad the team playing in it is. On the other hand, it's really old, falling apart and would probably not be worth the cost of fixing all the problems.

Playing in that stadium guarantees them they will not get post-season glory. Guaranteed.

Why? Please don't tell me "because it's cursed."

Cuck the Fubs
05-25-2006, 02:13 PM
Oh this one is easy.........

Gather the entire management & coaching staff, the MLB ( if you can call them that ) parent club, and all the minor league affiliates into the Urinal, then DEMOLISH IT!

Problem solved:D:

gbergman
05-25-2006, 02:16 PM
1. Keep their infield the same
2. Move Pierre to left as he has a weak arm
3. Try and sign Tori Hunter or trade for him.
4. Pick up a 20-30 hr right fielder
5. So long Wood
6. Bullpens decent
7. New 4th or 5th starter and groom a potential 3rd starter in minors

rightsox
05-25-2006, 02:26 PM
If I ran the show, I'd send each and every position player down to Iowa and bring up his AAA replacement. The message being that if you're going to play like you're in Iowa, damnit, you're going to be in Iowa.

I wouldn't do it for more than 2 days (unless we started winning, but honestly, what are the odds of that), but I think it would get the message across.

I wonder why nobody's offered me a GM job yet.

SOXPHILE
05-25-2006, 02:27 PM
1) Fold the entire franchise

2) Burn down Wrigley Field.

3) Gather & destroy as much Cub related paraphernalia as possible (hats, shirts, pennants, Marte Gras beads, bumper stickers, etc.)

4) Strike all records of their existence from any and all MLB record books & archives

5) Enact laws and ordinances that prohibit or limit any reference to them in conversation. Similarly, those formerly infected with "Cubfandumb" must be taught and re-educated about baseball, and given other teams to root for, with extra emphasis put on the White Sox

tebman
05-25-2006, 02:27 PM
So, with a minimum of intentional Isaiah-Thomas-with-the-Knicks-esque sandbagging of the franchise, what moves would you make? The key constraints (IMO) are that you keep playing in Wrigley, and you have about a $100M payroll to operate with, maybe even going to $110M.
The first move a hypothetical new GM would need to make would be to insist on independence so that all the well-reasoned moves that have already been suggested in this thread could be made. Shortly after the Tribune bought the Cubs in 1981, the company hired Dallas Green to run the team. Before he took the job he insisted, and received, complete autonomy. He cleaned house, even asking publicly why Ernie Banks was on the payroll. He made aggressive trades, signed some key players, and the Cubs were in the playoffs in '84.

I remember his departure a few years later, accompanied by a series of grumbles about corporate interference. I don't have any of those details handy, but for me the lesson is that as long as a throat-clearing corporation like Tribune Company owns the team there will be too many cooks and not enough passion for winning.

As regards the team itself? Back up the truck.

Chicken Dinner
05-25-2006, 02:42 PM
Why fix anything. It's beautiful. There's nothing wrong. Leave it be.

elrod
05-25-2006, 02:42 PM
Fire Andy MacPhail, Hendry and Baker. Get somebody who wants to build a winner from scratch, the way Cleveland did it. And then trade Prior, Maddux, Barrett, Ramirez, Walker, Pierre, Eyre, Howry, Demptster and Jones to anybody willing to taken them. Let Wood walk at the end of the year. Stock up with high-level minor league talent - you can get it from desperate teams on the bubble of the playoffs. There are 12 teams in the running for the playoffs in the NL alone. Only four will make it to the post-season, but all will get desperate at some point and trade away too much young talent for a Prior or a Walker. Get some good minor league development guys and a new trainer. And wait a couple years. After three years in the toilet, the Cubs could be at where the Indians were last year. But no more plugging holes and waiting for Prior and Wood. Build the new team around Derrek Lee, Pie, Murton, and Zambrano.


The Cubs can lose 110 games and still draw well at Wrigley, so they shouldn't worry about alienating their fans with a total rebuilding. What Cub fans want is a plan, not fix-a-leaky-bucket.

Ol' No. 2
05-25-2006, 02:59 PM
When is the last time the Cubs had any sort of player developed from within that amounted to a hill of beans? There hasn't been a position player in bloody ages. Prior hardly counts, since that was a no-brainer draft and they did nothing to develop him (but did plenty to ruin him). Wood??? Please. Zambraino is about the only one I can think of.

Add in that their trading history has been abysmal. They managed to connect on sure things like Lee and Ramirez, but mostly their trades and FA signings backfire.

When you're this consistently bad, you have to point to the scouting. They seem completely incapable of recognizing talent unless it's blindingly obvious. They're saddled with a roster that's complete dreck for a reason. If they're ever going to be decent, they have to get somebody that can recognize talent. Then they have to get someone to develop it, but you can't do the second without the first.

Tragg
05-25-2006, 03:03 PM
Fire Andy MacPhail, Hendry and Baker. Get somebody who wants to build a winner from scratch, the way Cleveland did it.
Has anyone won anything using that approach? Plenty of teams have imploded themselves (Reds, Pirates, Tribe, Jays, As, Marlins) and only the As and the Marlins have made the playoffs, as best I can tell. I guess the Cubs would be willing to spend, which those teams (except for the Marlins) weren't willing to do, which may make a big difference.

palehozenychicty
05-25-2006, 03:09 PM
The Cubs can lose 110 games and still draw well at Wrigley, so they shouldn't worry about alienating their fans with a total rebuilding. What Cub fans want is a plan, not fix-a-leaky-bucket.


Which is why they need a new owner and a new stadium. They always think that next year will just magically happen!

Chip Z'nuff
05-25-2006, 03:11 PM
turn all the seats 180 degrees

HotelWhiteSox
05-25-2006, 03:16 PM
As a great man once said (a week ago)

http://www.photofile.com/Photos/Albums/05_MLB_WorldSeries/Thumbs/05WS_OzzieGuillenCeleb.jpg

**** the Cubs

maurice
05-25-2006, 03:22 PM
When is the last time the Cubs had any sort of player developed from within that amounted to a hill of beans?

Garland?
Willis?
Patterson?

robertks61
05-25-2006, 03:27 PM
Take the water cooler Maddox bashed and turn it into spaghetti sauce and sell it at Harry Carey's Restaurant.


Fold the team also!

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-25-2006, 03:28 PM
The need to do what the Marlins did last offseason.
- Fire Baker.
- Don't pick up the option on Wood, he's a waste of $$$.
- Trade Prior for pitching prospects with good potential.
- Get rid of the following (whether by trade or release): Williamson, Ohman, Novoa, Rusch, Williams, & Jones.
- Use Walker, Maddux, and/or Ramirez, as trade bait for solid hitters/pitchers.

Ol' No. 2
05-25-2006, 03:34 PM
Garland?
Willis?
Patterson?Exactly. When they do manage to accidentally draft someone decent they don't recognize it and trade him for more dreck. Good scouting is absolutely fundamental to building a good team. The Sox have been able to identify the pieces they need and acquire them, even when everyone else ridiculed those moves. And among those top prospects they've given up, none have yet set the league on fire. In the draft they've found good players even though they haven't had a top-10 draft pick in 15 years. Meanwhile, the Cubs would probably do better with a dartboard.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-25-2006, 03:48 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/gallery/data/4/wrigley3.jpg

DumpJerry
05-25-2006, 04:25 PM
Ban the sales of beer. This would make the fans actually notice what they are paying for on the field so they start to behave like the fans of the other 29 teams (don't show up until they win).

Change the logo and uniform color. No more blue. Make the logo a grizzly bear cub baring his teeth.

Change the name to The Delts. Or The Alphs. Or the Omegas.

Send the entire team and management into witness protection. It's for their own good.

Layla
05-25-2006, 04:36 PM
I don't know alot of the players over there, but I'll give it my best shot.

Get rid of Hendry and Baker. Keep Lee. Everyone else is on the trading block. Bring up some of the good AAA and even AA prospects and plan and spending a few years seasoning these guys. Spend the money to get quality free agents. I agree with someone who said get a psychiarist for Zambrano and Prior. If they are able to work at their respective problems, I would probably keep them. Wood is gone. Thanks for the 20K game in 98.

Stop the marketing of the loveable loser, the goat whatever garbage. Get an Ozzie type manager (Lou Pinella) and give him free reign. Make team dinners a mandatory event during road trips to build some sense of family there.

Try to get a new stadium. Get it more family friendly than an experience.

Jjav829
05-25-2006, 05:20 PM
I'm always up for playing armchair GM. When do we do the Royals and Devil Rays? :smile:

Step 1.) Fire Dusty Baker
Step 2.) Fire Dusty Baker - Hey, you can't be too careful here. You have to make sure he is truly gone.
Step 3.) Fire Jim Hendry - Aside from ripping off a few teams that needed to move payroll, he really hasn't done much to prove he can be a good GM. His reliance on two injury prone pitchers and his refusal to try to change the Cubs style of play has led to the product they currently have on the field. And to top it off, he thinks that giving Dusty an extension is a good idea. Can you say "clueless?" The Baker part alone is enough to warrant a pink slip.
Step 4.) Hire a young, inexperienced and energetic manager like Ozzie. They need someone who will hold the players accountable and isn't jaded by years of losing.
Step 5.) New GM - Trade anyone and everyone he can from their team for prospects (except those listed in 6). Juan Pierre? He gone. Maddux? Cya. Wood? If someone actually wants him, adios.
Step 6.) Keep the following around: Ronny Cedeno, Matt Murton, Derrek Lee, Mark Prior. Yes, that means Ramirez can go. I know, he's the first good Cubs 3B since whoever. Big deal. He represents most of what is wrong with the Cubs. He's not patient, plays mediocre - at best - defense and seemingly has a new injury every other day.
Step 7.) Using those few major leaguers and the few decent prospects they have, start over. Don't chase after the best free agents, with the exception of any quality starting pitcher who isn't injured every 5th start. Go after guys like Mulder and Zito in the offseason. On offense, stop looking for the biggest names and build a team with a balance of speed, defense, on-base guys and power.
Step 8.) Hire Dusty Baker and immediately fire him again, just for the hell of it.
Step 9.) Wake up, because none of this will happen because the Tribune company doesn't care.

Vernam
05-25-2006, 05:27 PM
I think someone "fixed" them many years ago, in the veterinary sense.:redneck

They need a manager who understands the main steroid era is over, and waiting for three-run dingers is a ticket to oblivion.

They need a GM who has a pair.

They need a media team that stops lying to their fans who, dumb though they are, have begun to catch on.

They need serious competition for the casual baseball fan's dollar. (Wait, that one's done already.)

And finally, they need to quit making excuses. Forget the "curse," it's the excuse that has doomed them throughout the years.

Vernam

Flight #24
05-25-2006, 06:13 PM
Just IMO, but I don't think it requires as wholesale a change as some here. Assuming I'm the GM, move #1 is to dump Crusty Faker and hire someone who'll actually hold these guys accountable for their actions (or lack thereof). This is especially important for the young guys. Piniella will do just fine, and I'll do my damndest to find a pitching coach who can actually coach pitchers. I'd hope Sweet Lou has someone or can help me entice someone. Maybe the guy with Milwaukee or Black from LAAAAAAAA.

As for player moves, I hold on to the following: Lee (1B), Cedeno (2B/SS), Ramirez (3B), Barrett (C), Murton (LF), Jones (RF/bench). jones only because I can't see anyone taking him and he's usable as a veteran reserve OF. Call up Pie to play CF, leaving a spot at 2B and maybe RF depending on who's available.

The staff is in shambles. My rotation would only include 1 rookie at the #5 and leave that slot to be battled out between Marshall/Hill/Guzman, with one of the 2 losers going to middle relief. I think I can resign Maddux at around $5M/yr and he and Wade Miller can battle it out for the #4 slot with the loser going to the pen. Assuming Prior doesn't have any current injury that requires surgery, I'll let him take the rest of the year easy, strengthen his arm/shoulder under the guidance of my new pitching coach, and come back as the #3 next year. Zambrano's the ace or #2 depending on who else I get. That leaves me 1 starting slot at the #1 or 2.

Bullpen has Eyre, Howry, Dempster, a rookie, and Maddux/Miller (probably Maddux since he won't resign as a reliever). I need one good reliever.

That makes my need positions 2B, SP, MR, and maybe RF. It also makes expendable Walker, Pierre, Wood, Maddux (I'll trade him away and try to resign him). Those guys get me whatever prospects they can.

Offseason's key target: Barry Zito. A rotation of Zito-Zambrano-Prior-Maddux-Rookie with Wade Miller waiting in the wings is solid enough and even though I have some injury ?s in it, I hope I can get by, or at least be in the hunt enough to deal for another SP at midseason.

Target #2: an MI like Loretta or Vizquel, or alternately, an RF like Catalonotto. Someone with a little pop, but who's mainly a good #2 hitter or leadoff guy.

Final batting order: Loretta/Vizquel-Cedeno/Hairston-Lee-Ramirez-Barrett-Jones-Murton-Pie.

Final rotation: Zito-Zambrano-Prior-Maddux-Marshall/Hill/Guzman

1 Dog
05-25-2006, 06:51 PM
As long as the Cubs are owned by the Tribune Corp, there is NO solution that can fix the problems. We're talking a core fundamental change in the way they draft, coach and the team and players general attitude toward the game of baseball. All of that must be addressed before anything involving the current situation can be changed. I believe it is that messed up.

That's really the root problem. While everyone understands that you have to run a franchise in a business-like fashion (trust me, Steinbrenner doesn't lose money with that revenue stream), a professional sports team has certain obligations to its fans and city. For example, most sports fans expect their team to at least try to win.

If I can find the link, I will post it to an article I found on the web last season. A Cubs blogger who was also an economics major dissected the Tribune's business plan. Ultimately, this gentleman concluded that said plan was not sustainable in either the sports or other "entertainment" fields. Basically, without winning a few games, the "novelty" and "charm" would wear off, which is what has happened to other teams/venues. The problem is that a media empire owns the Cubs, and this plan may be sustainable with propaganda on the scale that we see every season.

In other words, the Tribune has no financial stake in doing diddly-squat so long as they continue to sell out and have TV sponsors. McFail and Hendry will do nothing, because to do something now is an indictment of their own failures for the last 3-4 years.

Major "accomplishments" in last 3-4 years:

Ramirez/Simon trade. Randall Simon is no longer in MLB. Ramirez has not performed up to his potential since 2003; he seems to have regressed as a contact hitter with the Cubs.

Greg Maddux FA signing: Although this has worked out about as expected, I have a funny feeling that Maddux was the real instigator in this deal. That is, I suspect Greg's agent called them up and actually did all of the preliminary. Hendry just doesn't seem capable of pulling off a coup like that.

This raises another point. The Cubs will have to make some major changes to attract free agents now. Considering the tax implications of making millions as personal income, most players would rather have a ring than another million that only their agent and ex-wives ever see. :redneck

getonbckthr
05-25-2006, 07:53 PM
1) Trade Maddux- Not great prospects but good prospects should come in return.
2) Trade Ramirez to Anaheim for Mcpherson and another prospect or 2. Why Anaheim will welcome his bat to somewhat protect Vlad.
3)Trade Pierre- You won't get back what you paid for him. Look for a potential hidden gem similar to what they gave up with Willis.
4)Build around Lee, Cedeno, Prior, Zambrano.
5) Let Williams, Marshall pitch in rotation deal with struggling best avenue to improving is experience and knowledge.
6)Convert Wade Miller to a closer. He has had injury problems, as a closer it should lead to less strain on his arm.
7)Deal Kerry Wood- don't not pickup his option get something out of him.
8) deal Todd Walker- same as Wood get something for him.
9) Start Pie right now.
10)End of season fire Baker hire Bowa.
11) Sign Soriano to a 5 yr deal, deal with his glove he is just like Walker, Hairston and Perez except he will hit 290 steal 40 hit 40hrs and drive in 100 plus leadoff.
12)sign either Carlos Lee or Cliff Floyd, preferrably Lee.
13)Leave Barrett, Eyre and Howry alone.
14)Sign Barry Zito
New Lineup for 07
1)Soriano-2b, 2)Cedeno-ss, 3)DLee-1b, 4)CLee-LF, 5)Barrett-C,6)Mcpherson-3B, 7)Jones-RF, 8)Pie-CF, 9) pitcher
Staff for 07
Prior, Zambrano, Zito, Williams, Marshall. Miller-closer LH-Eyre, Hill. RH-Howry,Dempster

vegyrex
05-25-2006, 08:02 PM
I wouldn't fix anything.

The flubs are perfect the way they are now. :D:

Banix12
05-25-2006, 08:05 PM
Gut management and coaching, in particular anybody involved with offensive player development.

During the cubs-sox series I mentioned to a cubs fan friend of mine how the cubs can't develop hitting and haven't done anything since Palmeiro and Grace were drafted in 1985. So we decided to build a "past 20 year" lineup. Basically take any player drafted and developed by the franchise and build a lineup.

Here is what we basically came up with for the cubs
CF - Doug Glanville
RF - Corey Patterson
LF - Jerome Walton
3b - Kevin Orie
SS - Ronny Cedeno (maybe Alex Arias)
2b - Bobby Hill
1b - Eric Hinske
C - Joe Girardi (like Grace and Palmeiro, also a Dallas Green draft pick. The best catcher developed since Girardi is Jose Molina)

That team loses 120 games, maybe more

I just pray the cubs move toward a youth movement. It's actually the best way for the cubs to get even worse.

On the plus side, the cubs can develop pitching it seems. Even if the guys on the cubs roster have a hard time staying healthy, there are plenty of guys they have let go over the years who have done well. Just look at the Marlins.

whitesoxfan1986
05-25-2006, 10:36 PM
Trade everybody. Pull a Marlin. Stockpile the farm system. Clean house in management. Get as much major league ready talent as they can, and sign veteran journeymen to fill in positions while the other young talent develops. They could get a lot of good prospects for Prior, Zambrano, Lee, and Ramirez. Yes, trade them too. But the first step is to clean house in management, and all Cub fans need to get this across to MacPhail. I'm so glad my dad is a Sox fan, because otherwise I'd probably be a snotty Cub fan.

Tragg
05-25-2006, 11:42 PM
I just pray the cubs move toward a youth movement. It's actually the best way for the cubs to get even worse.

:smile:

But you're so right; I never realized before how barren their development has been.

It's even worse in contrast to the Sox, who have players who made all star teams at all positions except for SS and Catcher (Frank, Durham, Robin, Magglio, Cameron, Lee)

IlliniSox4Life
05-26-2006, 12:09 AM
Honestly, I think steps are under way. Baseball is a business, and things won't change until they start losing money. There are two events that will cause that: 1 - the Sox surpassing them in ticket sales/revenue and 2 - Wrigley being demolished. I don't see them getting rid of Wrigley until they have to (it would be a smart baseball move, but a dumb business move) So here is my plan:

Step 1: The White Sox win the World Series (check)
Step 2: The Cubs continue their ineptitude (check)
Step 3: The Whites Sox repeat (closing in)
Step 4: The White Sox surpass the Cubs in ticket sales. (closing in)
Step 5: The Cubs clean house, a new president and GM are brought in and fundamentally change the structure and goals of the organization.
Step 6: Talent is evaluated. Key players are kept (Derek Lee, a few others) along with some promising talent. Everyone else is traded. Get whatever you can, new blood, it doesn't matter who it is.
Step 7: Coach, coach, coach.


Seriously though, the Cubs' success is tied to the success of the Sox. There is no incentive for them to turn the organization around unless people stop going to Wrigley. The only way that will happen is when the Wrigley "experience" is no longer fun. The Cubs have had plenty of horrible years over the last 20 years and fans still go to the games and have what they consider to be a good time there. The reason Cub fans are finally getting fed up and pissed off at the team this year- the White Sox won the World Series and it is no longer fun to go to "historic" Wrigley when there is a World Series champion in town and you are embarressed when comparing the two teams.

Edit: a little clarification

Ol' No. 2
05-26-2006, 12:12 AM
Honestly, I think steps are under way. Baseball is a business, and things won't change until they start losing money. There are two events that will cause that: 1 - the Sox surpassing them in ticket sales/revenue and 2 - Wrigley being demolished. I don't see them getting rid of Wrigley until they have to (it would be a smart baseball move, but a dumb business move) So here is my plan:

Step 1: The White Sox win the World Series (check)
Step 2: The Cubs continue their ineptitude (check)
Step 3: The Whites Sox repeat (closing in)
Step 4: The White Sox surpass the Cubs in ticket sales. (closing in)
Step 5: The Cubs clean house, a new president and GM are brought in and fundamentally change the structure and goals of the organization.
Step 6: Talent is evaluated. Key players are kept (Derek Lee, a few others) along with some promising talent. Everyone else is traded. Get whatever you can, new blood, it doesn't matter who it is.
Step 7: Coach, coach, coach.


Seriously though, the Cubs' success is tied to the success of the Sox. There is no incentive for them to turn the organization around unless people stop going to Wrigley. The only way that will happen is when they have a winning baseball option to choose from. The Cubs have had plenty of horrible years over the last 20 years. The reason Cub fans are finally getting fed up - the White Sox won the World Series.I was listening to Steve Stone on Monday driving down to the game. He was in rare form. Among other things, he said that the Cubs were making more money this year than ever. I don't know how he knows that, but take it for what it's worth.

MrRoboto83
05-26-2006, 12:18 AM
Why fix anything. It's beautiful. There's nothing wrong. Leave it be.

Best solution i have heard!

ilsox7
05-26-2006, 12:21 AM
I was listening to Steve Stone on Monday driving down to the game. He was in rare form. Among other things, he said that the Cubs were making more money this year than ever. I don't know how he knows that, but take it for what it's worth.
Back of the envelope calculaitons show a nice chunk of change from the sale of the Nationals, 1,800 extra seats/concessions, bringing in millions, and no significant increase in expenses. Tribune Co. is happy I am sure.

Banix12
05-26-2006, 01:31 AM
:smile:

But you're so right; I never realized before how barren their development has been.

It's even worse in contrast to the Sox, who have players who made all star teams at all positions except for SS and Catcher (Frank, Durham, Robin, Magglio, Cameron, Lee)

What I find somewhat puzzling about the whole predicament is that one of the 5 Cub GM's over that period of inept management was Larry Himes who was responsible for drafting both Frank and Robin. So it's not like he hadn't had success before, yet he goes to the cubs and success is fleeting.

Possibly some deeper offensive issue in the system beyond general managment?

Steelrod
05-26-2006, 02:10 AM
I was listening to Steve Stone on Monday driving down to the game. He was in rare form. Among other things, he said that the Cubs were making more money this year than ever. I don't know how he knows that, but take it for what it's worth.
Not too difficult to understand. Payroll is down and everythings sold out. The only possible improvement the Trib. would welcome is to clean house, dramatically lower payroll on the supposition of rebuilding, and the sheep will continue to buy the product!

Optipessimism
05-26-2006, 02:51 AM
I don't know what the point would be to just partially rebuild when you figure that if you are going younger, the guys who are a big part of the team now will have expiring contracts by the time the organiztion is ready to make a serious push. By then, a guy like Ramirez or Lee would probably be sick of losing and go elsewhere.

IMO, the Cubs will never ever seriously contend until they undergo some sort of major rebuilding process like Cleveland and Florida have done. Many of the prospects that you get in return for solid/star players are not going to pan out, so an organization is best off stiockpiling them if they can. This is why Florida and Cleveland were successful and why Florida, or whatever they are by then, will again be successful.

So, instead of trading only the crap I'd trade everyone I could for the best possible package I could, including Lee and Ramirez. In the mean time I'd use the high payroll to sign some cheap stopgap type players like KC has (Grudz, Sanders, Mintkiewicz, etc.) and look to deal them for midlevel prospects with high ceilings around the AllStar break. But the first thing I'd do is gut the organization and find someone who knows how to scout players.

WSox597
05-26-2006, 07:42 AM
find someone who knows how to scout players.

I hear Jerry Krause may be available.

jenn2080
05-26-2006, 08:01 AM
Get rid of the GM the company needs to be in the hands of someone other then a newspaper. Get rid of 95% of the coaching staff...DUSTY INCLUDED! Def get rid of Wood and Prior. Duck tape Barretts mouth

Baby Fisk
05-26-2006, 08:21 AM
Quite simply, the Cubs will never win unless they have an owner who puts winning ahead of all else. Until that happens, Cub fans can keep deluding themselves every year.

Enjoy your historic beer bleachers, Cub fans! Great tickets still available! Call your moneylender today!

Hangar18
05-26-2006, 08:37 AM
Quite simply, the Cubs will never win unless they have an owner who puts winning ahead of all else. Until that happens, Cub fans can keep deluding themselves every year.

Enjoy your historic beer bleachers, Cub fans! Great tickets still available! Call your moneylender today!

Everyone keeps saying that, but thats not really true at all. The Cubs have been INEPT for going on a Century. Thats not an Accident. I like my idea much better (for those fans). Sell the Cubs to someone who wants to MOVE THEM. Get that team out of Chicago, hopefully to Vegas and let them deal with the Ineptness that is Cub. Get the DevilRays here, MLB will want an MLB team. Or even Move the Brewers here.

Hangar18
05-26-2006, 08:41 AM
By then, a guy like Ramirez or Lee would probably be sick of losing and go elsewhere.




They dont want to go ANYWHERE. Guys who like being a Cub like the lifestyle, the free beer at any bar on Clark St (for being a Cub of course)
and the free Love given to you by the Fans and Media. If they win a few games, hey thats cool. Lee has his RING already. Now he'll just Cool Breeze it the next few years, collect his paychecks, have his number retired, then when he retires, he'll do the WGN/Talk Show circuit and talk about what it was like to play before 38,000 oblivious fans.

Baby Fisk
05-26-2006, 08:42 AM
Everyone keeps saying that, but thats not really true at all. The Cubs have been INEPT for going on a Century. Thats not an Accident.
Then maybe they are cursed?

Get your "Reverse The Curse" t-shirts today, Cub fans! Available in Baby Bear Blue or Billy Goat Beige. Pink tank tops for the ladies also available!

Hangar18
05-26-2006, 08:57 AM
Then maybe they are cursed?

Get your "Reverse The Curse" t-shirts today, Cub fans! Available in Baby Bear Blue or Billy Goat Beige. Pink tank tops for the ladies also available!

See, thats the other thing that makes me laugh at those FOOLISH Sheep.
They think that by wearing a cute-shirt like that, the "curse" will simply be reversed? Its more like an enterprising thief has figured out another way to take money from this fanbase. They think eating Goat Burgers will make the "curse" go away. Its more like an enterprising restaurant chain riding the coat-tails of anything-cub, has figured out another way to take money from this fanbase. They think that by sending emails to Mark Cuban, that he will want to buy thier team and make them magically successful. How can one fan-base be that incredibly as inept as the franchise they admire?

drewcifer
05-26-2006, 09:02 AM
Time for a little kindness: How would you fix the Cubs?


http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f322/fugnutz/goat.jpg

"You're wasting your time. There's nothing you can do!"

RedHeadPaleHoser
05-26-2006, 09:03 AM
Contact patbooyah and mikebooyah.

Have their father re-enact Disco Demolition. Except, use much larger explosives.

Lock the Cubs dressing room so they can't leave.

When fans storm the fields, invite all security and police to Puffer's for beers.

It solves itself.

Baby Fisk
05-26-2006, 09:26 AM
See, thats the other thing that makes me laugh at those FOOLISH Sheep.
They think that by wearing a cute-shirt like that, the "curse" will simply be reversed? Its more like an enterprising thief has figured out another way to take money from this fanbase. They think eating Goat Burgers will make the "curse" go away. Its more like an enterprising restaurant chain riding the coat-tails of anything-cub, has figured out another way to take money from this fanbase. They think that by sending emails to Mark Cuban, that he will want to buy thier team and make them magically successful. How can one fan-base be that incredibly as inept as the franchise they admire?

Bartman Spaghetti was the ultimate indicator that there will always be enough fools in the world willing to part with their money.

GOGOGOPODS
05-26-2006, 12:31 PM
Should the Cubs fire Dusty Baker?

What should Jim Hendry do? White flag yet? Should the Cubs do what the 2002 Sox did?

Things are getting so bad in the pisshole on the North Side that fans are boycotting Wrigley Field because management did nothing and is doing nothing.

Man isn't it great to be a Sox fan right now? Go Sox!
2005-Champs 2006- Repeat

steveironcity
05-26-2006, 12:39 PM
Isnt this thread supposed to go in "whats the score"

skobabe8
05-26-2006, 12:39 PM
Pardon sir, by any chance would you happen to be informed of the tally?

GOGOGOPODS
05-26-2006, 12:42 PM
Should the Cubs fire Dusty Baker?

What should Jim Hendry do? White flag yet? Should the Cubs do what the 2002 Sox did?

Things are getting so bad in the pisshole on the North Side that fans are boycotting Wrigley Field because management did nothing and is doing nothing.

Man isn't it great to be a Sox fan right now? Go Sox!
2005-Champs 2006- Repeat
__________________
Attendance this year (9-4)

Gotta love Buerhle
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-04/22977517.jpg

Uncle_Patrick
05-26-2006, 12:43 PM
Should the Cubs fire Dusty Baker?

What should Jim Hendry do? White flag yet? Should the Cubs do what the 2002 Sox did?

Things are getting so bad in the pisshole on the North Side that fans are boycotting Wrigley Field because management did nothing and is doing nothing.

Man isn't it great to be a Sox fan right now? Go Sox!
2005-Champs 2006- Repeat

The Cubs should stand pat and continue to lose. I'm perfectly fine with that strategy.:D:

nedlug
05-26-2006, 12:44 PM
Pardon sir, by any chance would you happen to be informed of the tally?
Have you acquired knowledge of the respective points of the game's combatants?

palehozenychicty
05-26-2006, 12:45 PM
The Cubs should stand pat and continue to lose. I'm perfectly fine with that strategy.:D:

Exactly, and that's what they will do.

Erik The Red
05-26-2006, 12:46 PM
Um, who cares?

skobabe8
05-26-2006, 12:48 PM
Back it up!
http://www.gulf-shores-real-estate.com/images/moving-truck-inside.jpg

*They SHOULD do this. Will they? Probbably not.

whitesoxwin
05-26-2006, 12:56 PM
Um, who cares?

Ditto.....

itsnotrequired
05-26-2006, 12:58 PM
Isnt this thread supposed to go in "whats the score"

It will be there soon enough...

Baby Fisk
05-26-2006, 12:59 PM
It will be there soon enough...
With its identical twin thread. :?:

Uncle_Patrick
05-26-2006, 01:01 PM
With its identical twin thread. :?:

The same guy started both threads.

Hangar18
05-26-2006, 01:16 PM
Things are getting so bad in the pisshole on the North Side that fans are boycotting Wrigley Field because management did nothing and is doing nothing.



Boycotting? Isnt that kind of like closing the barn doors AFTER the horses have already Escaped? Yup, the sheep flocked and bought 600,000 tickets in one day..................

White Sox Randy
05-26-2006, 01:29 PM
contract themselves

kevin57
05-26-2006, 01:33 PM
Actually, I'm quite pleased with what the Cubs are doing right now.

From an analysis perspective, they need(ed) to shake things up top-to-bottom. McFail to Helpless Hendry to Crusty the Clown Baker. Moreover, there are "faceless" execs above McFail who should be held accountable first and foremost...but that ain't gonna happen.

So, back to my first sentence.

Tekijawa
05-26-2006, 01:38 PM
I think they should start by pulling Zambozo after he's walked 4 in the first inning so far... and walked in one run... only one more out to go Carlos...

dickallen15
05-26-2006, 01:41 PM
I think the Cubs should demand to be contracted. Maybe the city could build something useful to society at Clark and Addison.

Hitmen77
05-26-2006, 01:41 PM
Bartman Spaghetti was the ultimate indicator that there will always be enough fools in the world willing to part with their money.

..and how about this Cub fan's comment on the Tribune's "from the cubicle" play by play.:o: Why shouldn't the Tribune just keep status quo?

The only reason to attend a game this weekend is in expectation of drinking and whoring. That being said, I am going to tommorow's game (I know, I know, I shouldn't).
Submitted by: I heart Michael Barret
1:28 PM CDT, May 26, 2006


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cubicle/cs-060526cubscubicle,1,5267328.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

Hangar18
05-26-2006, 01:56 PM
isnt this already being talked about?

Chisox003
05-26-2006, 02:03 PM
isnt this already being talked about?
Um, if Hangar is saying this, don't you think it's getting a little out of control?

There's already threats about this in WTS. I know this guy is new but with his 4th post ever at WSI he's posting about the ****ing cubs.

Get a clue :rolleyes:

johnr1note
05-26-2006, 02:07 PM
The Cubs already missed thier opportunity to begin thier retooling. After last season, I don't think Derrik Lee's value could have been at a higher point. Will he ever have a year like he had last year? I think Lee could have been dealt to a club like Baltimore in exchange for Tejada, or some other blockbuster level deal. Or, they could have pulled a "Marlins" move and traded for a block of prospects.

That is the only way the Cubs can begin to compete is back up the truck, get rid of the higher paid, older players, and retool the entire lineup. But they also need a strategy. When KW dealt Carlos Lee for Podsednik, I reacted negatively, but we now see how his master plan worked out. While it hasn't resulted in ultimate success yet, Billy Beane's "Moneyball" strategy has kept the A's in contention despite a lack of payroll. The offseason moves of the Cubs this past winter shows an effort to simply fill holes with what was viewed as the "best option available." Had they traded Lee for prospects, moved Walker to first, kept the young pitching they dealt for Pierre and put Pie in center, the north side might not have a contending team, but at least they would be interesting to watch while the kids learned. There would at least be hope in this alternative reality.

Unfortunately, Cubs management simply wants to sell Wrigley Field and a lot of beer.

RKMeibalane
05-26-2006, 02:12 PM
They should move to Siberia.

Baby Fisk
05-26-2006, 02:14 PM
Um, if Hangar is saying this, don't you think it's getting a little out of control?


Now THAT was funny.

russ99
05-26-2006, 02:48 PM
14)Sign Barry Zito


This is really the biggest problem with the Cubs. A large market team is thinking like a small-market one so that corporate can keep the extra cash.

There's no way the Cubs pony up the kind of cash it will take to sign Zito, especially with this management team. Hendry may try to get him, but will definitely get shot down by upper management. As long as the Cubs sell tickets, there's no pressure on them to make such a big move.

The funniest part is that Cub fans are deluded into thinking that such a move is possible by Cubs management.

Kind of a moot point, since I'd bet that Zito's going to the Yankees anyway.


Bartman Spaghetti was the ultimate indicator that there will always be enough fools in the world willing to part with their money.

I always have maintained that blowing up the Bartman ball was messing around with the fragile fabric of the universe.

miker
05-26-2006, 07:11 PM
Unfortunately, Cubs management simply wants to sell Wrigley Field and a lot of beer.
And they will be quite successful at it. From a baseball perspective, the Cubs should be contracted. From a business perspective, its easy money -- bring on those blue kool-aid drinking sheep!

Tekijawa
05-30-2006, 09:16 AM
I would Call Chuck Knoblock's Agebt and Inquire about him, the Cubs need another aging BAD second baseman on this team. I don't know if you guys are aware of this or not but no team in the history of baseball has ever missed the playoffs with 5 second basemen on the roster and none have ever lost the world series either... I think it's just the move they need to make!