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cbotnyse
05-25-2006, 08:41 AM
Does anyone have an idea when this will come down?

I have a bet with a fellow Cubs fan that he will get 20 games......Am I way off?

soxinthecity
05-25-2006, 08:44 AM
I heard they will be announced tomorrow Friday.

Ol' No. 2
05-25-2006, 09:00 AM
Does anyone have an idea when this will come down?

I have a bet with a fellow Cubs fan that he will get 20 games......Am I way off?Yes. Even 10 would be a stretch. I'm betting no more than 7. Kendall got only four games for charging Lackey.

Uncle_Patrick
05-25-2006, 09:00 AM
Does anyone have an idea when this will come down?

I have a bet with a fellow Cubs fan that he will get 20 games......Am I way off?

Guys in the national media seem to think he deserves 20 games off, the local media seem to think he'll get no more than 10. Given that so many people have made AJ reputation a part of this whole thing, I'd be surprised if Barrett got 20.

daveeym
05-25-2006, 09:04 AM
Yes. Even 10 would be a stretch. I'm betting no more than 7. Kendall got only four games for charging Lackey.I think it'll be 10 lowered on appeal. Charging the mound is much different than a sucker punch after a clean play, considering he was mouthing off about needing a fight before the series. You're talking Kermit Washington territory here. Thank goodness AJ didn't get hurt but you've got to make a statement here. I think BA deserves 5.

Ol' No. 2
05-25-2006, 09:14 AM
I think it'll be 10 lowered on appeal. Charging the mound is much different than a sucker punch after a clean play, considering he was mouthing off about needing a fight before the series. You're talking Kermit Washington territory here. Thank goodness AJ didn't get hurt but you've got to make a statement here. I think BA deserves 5.I'm not so sure whatever he gets will be lowered on appeal. Kendall dropped his appeal after the MLBPA told him he had very little chance of a reduction. It's not as if there is any real dispute over what actually happened (Cubune propaganda excepted). The thing working in Barrett's favor is that AJ wasn't injured.

How much BA gets will depend on review of the tapes and who instigated his altercation with Mabry. If BA started it, he'll get 5 for sure. If it was Mabry, 3 seems more likely.

daveeym
05-25-2006, 09:21 AM
I'm not so sure whatever he gets will be lowered on appeal. Kendall dropped his appeal after the MLBPA told him he had very little chance of a reduction. It's not as if there is any real dispute over what actually happened (Cubune propaganda excepted). The thing working in Barrett's favor is that AJ wasn't injured.

How much BA gets will depend on review of the tapes and who instigated his altercation with Mabry. If BA started it, he'll get 5 for sure. If it was Mabry, 3 seems more likely.I just think with as large as a suspension as Barrett's going to get they're going to build in some appeal removed games. Removing some games from a small suspension is pointless and makes it non-effective but removing some off a large suspension lets them feel like they got something out of it.

On BA I think the fact he's throwing haymakers is what's going to get him, regardless of who started it. He hit barrett on the way in and then next thing you see of him is he's throwing roundhouses. Plus he's a rookie. They're going to come down pretty hard on him.

Banix12
05-25-2006, 09:37 AM
My guess is it gets announced this afternoon. Cubs have a day off and there is no better time to really address it. something in the 7-15 days seems like what it is going to be.

Regardless it's going to be the cubs losing their best hitter for at least seven games, and another 0-7 stretch should be just enough to eliminate any delusions of making a run this season. Though this is the cubs, they could be 20 games under and someone in the front office will be saying "Cmon, we're just about primed to make our run!"

Uncle_Patrick
05-25-2006, 09:44 AM
I'm not so sure whatever he gets will be lowered on appeal. Kendall dropped his appeal after the MLBPA told him he had very little chance of a reduction. It's not as if there is any real dispute over what actually happened (Cubune propaganda excepted). The thing working in Barrett's favor is that AJ wasn't injured.



The other thing working in Barrett's defense is AJ's reputation. If he gets a large suspension, he'll undoubtedly appeal and the Cubs will make sure to make AJ's reputation part of Barrett's defense, if they haven't already.

cbotnyse
05-25-2006, 09:50 AM
The other thing working in Barrett's defense is AJ's reputation. If he gets a large suspension, he'll undoubtedly appeal and the Cubs will make sure to make AJ's reputation part of Barrett's defense, if they haven't already.

you really think so?? I dont see how a guy's reputation warrents a cheapshot, and I also dont see how it can be used as a defense.

McCuddy
05-25-2006, 09:52 AM
If "the other guy's reputation" is a valid defense, then Springer shouldn't have been suspended for throwing at Bonds.

itsnotrequired
05-25-2006, 09:55 AM
The other thing working in Barrett's defense is AJ's reputation. If he gets a large suspension, he'll undoubtedly appeal and the Cubs will make sure to make AJ's reputation part of Barrett's defense, if they haven't already.

Nonsense. Reputation or not, slugging someone in the face is beyond defendable.

Ol' No. 2
05-25-2006, 09:58 AM
I just think with as large as a suspension as Barrett's going to get they're going to build in some appeal removed games. Removing some games from a small suspension is pointless and makes it non-effective but removing some off a large suspension lets them feel like they got something out of it.

On BA I think the fact he's throwing haymakers is what's going to get him, regardless of who started it. He hit barrett on the way in and then next thing you see of him is he's throwing roundhouses. Plus he's a rookie. They're going to come down pretty hard on him.The fact that they let it be known that they weren't going to reduce Kendall's suspension suggests that maybe they're not going to treat suspensions as negotiable anymore. Why give 10 with the intent you're going to reduce it to 7? Just give 7 and stick to it. Barrett really has no grounds for appeal. AJ's reputation has no real bearing on it. Barrett himself admitted that AJ didn't say anything to provoke it. He had him around the waist, so AJ was no threat at that point. And Barrett's words to AJ aren't those of someone reacting to being bumped. It's pretty clear-cut retaliation.

Appeals are based on extenuating circumstances or facts not considered in the initial review. I can't think what those would be.

Hangar18
05-25-2006, 10:02 AM
Guys in the national media seem to think he deserves 20 games off, the local media seem to think he'll get no more than 10. Given that so many people have made AJ reputation a part of this whole thing, I'd be surprised if Barrett got 20.


Media Types and Fans nationwide think he should be getting 20-30 ("he should get an enormous suspension" -national radio show) but the COWARDS at Major League Baseball will only give Barrett 7 games, which he'll "appeal" and get it trimmed down to 4 games.

The Chicago Media (led by the Tribune, who coincidentally OWNS the Cubs)
think AJ should be suspended because his "reputation" should be suspended, not necessarily his actions, and that Barrett is a "nice guy" in the clubhouse.

In showing just how big a Coward he (Watson) really is, and fearing stepping on toes of major corporation, he will also Hand AJ a 4 game suspension, with no real grounds. Watson and Selig will then turn the ringers off the phones, and take a week off away from the Media.

Uncle_Patrick
05-25-2006, 10:07 AM
If "the other guy's reputation" is a valid defense, then Springer shouldn't have been suspended for throwing at Bonds.

I'm not saying its a valid defense, but its one that the Cubs could use. There are already fans all around the league, people who root for neither the Cubs or Sox, who are using the "Pierzynski was involved" theory to defend Barrett. The Cubs are going to use whatever they can to get Barrett's suspension reduced.

Barry is disliked, but he is not considered an "instigator" on the field. Springer couldn't say "Well, I threw at him because I think he's just a total jerk and he uses performance enhancing drugs."

Uncle_Patrick
05-25-2006, 10:10 AM
Nonsense. Reputation or not, slugging someone in the face is beyond defendable.

I agree 100%, but that doesn't mean the Cubs won't make it part of Barrett's defense. We just have to hope that MLB remembers that.

daveeym
05-25-2006, 10:14 AM
The fact that they let it be known that they weren't going to reduce Kendall's suspension suggests that maybe they're not going to treat suspensions as negotiable anymore. Why give 10 with the intent you're going to reduce it to 7? Just give 7 and stick to it. Barrett really has no grounds for appeal. AJ's reputation has no real bearing on it. Barrett himself admitted that AJ didn't say anything to provoke it. He had him around the waist, so AJ was no threat at that point. And Barrett's words to AJ aren't those of someone reacting to being bumped. It's pretty clear-cut retaliation.

Appeals are based on extenuating circumstances or facts not considered in the initial review. I can't think what those would be. I think the appeal process can go to the extent of having an arbitrator hear it. Anyone? Kendall's suspension was so small and as a catcher that needs days off anyway there was no reason to push it to get it reduced 1 game. In Barrett's case I'm expecting a minimum of 10 but wouldn't be surprised to see more. In that case it will be appealed and and when you're playing around with that many games it's likely to get reduced by a few games. An arbitrator almost never gives a full "win" to one side or the other. I don't think you can read too much into the Kendall decision either.

I'm assuming your AJ comments were directed to others, but I agree with those.

Hangar18
05-25-2006, 10:15 AM
I agree 100%, but that doesn't mean the Cubs won't make it part of Barrett's defense. We just have to hope that MLB remembers that.


Major League Baseball, otherwise known as the League of Extraordinarily Dumb Gentleman, will cower and NOT give him the 20 games that he is due.
A 20 Game Suspension, and you will NEVER see a purely instigated fight like Barretts happen again. MLB can put their foot down. But they wont.
Sissies

Ol' No. 2
05-25-2006, 10:26 AM
I think the appeal process can go to the extent of having an arbitrator hear it. Anyone? Kendall's suspension was so small and as a catcher that needs days off anyway there was no reason to push it to get it reduced 1 game. In Barrett's case I'm expecting a minimum of 10 but wouldn't be surprised to see more. In that case it will be appealed and and when you're playing around with that many games it's likely to get reduced by a few games. An arbitrator almost never gives a full "win" to one side or the other. I don't think you can read too much into the Kendall decision either.

I'm assuming your AJ comments were directed to others, but I agree with those.In my reading of the CBA it sounds like any suspension can only be appealed to the Commissioner, and his decision is final.

Scottiehaswheels
05-25-2006, 10:28 AM
Has an arbitrator ever actually INCREASED a suspension based on the BS being fed him by the team's management? That'd be hilarious...

Well Mr. Barrett, you were originally only supposed to to receive a 12 day vacation but due to the garbage crap your management is feeding us, we're gonna give you 20 days off.

spawn
05-25-2006, 10:36 AM
Here's the thing that ticks me off...all I keep hearing about is AJ's reputation. All we know about AJ is he just gets under people's skin. He's annoying. That's it. When does Barrett's reputation come into play? Has AJ ever instigated in fights? Idon't recall any incidents that he picked fights with anyone. Barrett on the other hand is shown verbally getting into it with both Roy Oswalt and Dave Roberts. Shouldn't that count for something? Barrett IMHO has been a bigger instigator in his short time on the north side than AJ.

Chez
05-25-2006, 10:41 AM
Why the heck has this taken so long? MLB should have been able to review the tapes in an hour or two on Monday and delivered the news Tuesday morning. From a purely selfish perspective, if Anderson is going to be suspended for 2-3 games, I would have preferred that his suspension start on Tuesday when the Sox were facing two righthanded Oakland starters.

ChiSoxLifer
05-25-2006, 10:48 AM
Julian Tavarez of the Red Sox got a ten game suspension for punching Gathright while he was on the ground earlier this year. Granted AJ was standing but I view them as similar cheap shots. I expect Barrett to get at least ten games.

Hangar18
05-25-2006, 11:09 AM
Has an arbitrator ever actually INCREASED a suspension based on the BS being fed him by the team's management? That'd be hilarious...

Well Mr. Barrett, you were originally only supposed to to receive a 12 day vacation but due to the garbage crap your management is feeding us, we're gonna give you 20 days off.

Thats what SHOULD happen. Filing an Appeal gives you the chance of your Suspension being LONGER. The only reason players file an "appeal" is they know they automatically shave off a few games if you do so. Its a Joke.

Hangar18
05-25-2006, 11:11 AM
Why the heck has this taken so long? MLB should have been able to review the tapes in an hour or two on Monday and delivered the news Tuesday morning..

have you noticed that once Monday came and NO SUSPENSIONS were handed out, the Chicago Tribune/Chicago Media went into OVERDRIVE, getting as much dirt on AJ out there as they could. The Rhetoric from the Tribune is Shamefull and Irresponsible.

peeonwrigley
05-25-2006, 11:48 AM
One thing I think is overlooked in all of this is the situation in the stands.

Transgressions like Barrett's (Cubs/Sox) and fights in LAA/LA, SF/Oak, NY/NY and NY/Boston series should be treated more harshly than a fight in a Marlins/Reds game. The crowds are packed and usually somewhat divided, which is a good recipe for fights. I think it is arguable whether that is a fair standard, but I don't think you can argue the point of it.

In a more evenly matched season (and evenly distributed crowd - basically any year at the Cell before this one) a fight like this could have set off a real cluster**** in the stands. This tool Barrett deserves at least 20.

cbotnyse
05-25-2006, 12:01 PM
One thing I think is overlooked in all of this is the situation in the stands.

Transgressions like Barrett's (Cubs/Sox) and fights in LAA/LA, SF/Oak, NY/NY and NY/Boston series should be treated more harshly than a fight in a Marlins/Reds game. The crowds are packed and usually somewhat divided, which is a good recipe for fights. I think it is arguable whether that is a fair standard, but I don't think you can argue the point of it.

In a more evenly matched season (and evenly distributed crowd - basically any year at the Cell before this one) a fight like this could have set off a real cluster**** in the stands. This tool Barrett deserves at least 20.

althought I do not think it will factor in the decision...it is a good point....if this happened in 2003 eveyone in the stands wearing a Barrett / AJ jersey would taking shots at each other...this is my first year I did not see any fights in the stands, or even much trashing talking however....

miker
05-25-2006, 01:35 PM
Barrett gets no more than three days and is given a ticker-tape parade from Tribune Tower up Michigan Avenue and over to the Urinal. Sports "journalists" from all of Chicago's papers, TV and radio stations will report on the millions that came out to support their hero.

Or am I just being a little cynical?

SBSoxFan
05-25-2006, 02:12 PM
Has an arbitrator ever actually INCREASED a suspension based on the BS being fed him by the team's management? That'd be hilarious...

Well Mr. Barrett, you were originally only supposed to to receive a 12 day vacation but due to the garbage crap your management is feeding us, we're gonna give you 20 days off.

Only if the arbitrator was a WSI mod! :redneck

Uncle_Patrick
05-25-2006, 02:31 PM
Barrett gets no more than three days and is given a ticker-tape parade from Tribune Tower up Michigan Avenue and over to the Urinal. Sports "journalists" from all of Chicago's papers, TV and radio stations will report on the millions that came out to support their hero.

Or am I just being a little cynical?

I guarantee that he gets a standing ovation his first game back at Wrigley.

WizardsofOzzie
05-25-2006, 02:34 PM
I guarantee that he gets a standing ovation his first game back at Wrigley.

Thats ok because AJ got a standing ovation at his first game after the fight too :smile:

The best suspension would be something like making him go to a sox game in full cubs gear and putting him in the bleachers surrounded by sox fans. Then before the game starts, have it be announced he's in attendance and where:rolleyes:

Layla
05-25-2006, 04:47 PM
Barrett deserves 20, but will be given 10 which will be lowered to 6.

I read all the garbage too about AJ's reputation. What a load. I don't care what he did before. You are talking about this game. I have also read the reason they have taken so long is because they kept viewing the film and reading the umpires reports.

Truth is, BA should get about 5. D. Lee should get something, for being out on the field while on the DL (to be served when he comes back). Pods might get a couple.

But there is no justice at all if AJ is given anything except a huge apology from Barrett.

buehrle4cy05
05-25-2006, 05:10 PM
IMO, Barrett deserves no less than 10 and Anderson will get about 3 or 4 days off. Podsednik deserves nothing but a pat on the back for defending his teammate and AJ didn't say a word to Barrett or fight back. Mabry might get a day off, but it looked like he was defending himself from the fists of rage of Anderson. If Pods or AJ gets suspended, I think it's more of a joke than Barrett getting 7-9 games.

TDog
05-25-2006, 06:49 PM
Has an arbitrator ever actually INCREASED a suspension based on the BS being fed him by the team's management? That'd be hilarious...

Well Mr. Barrett, you were originally only supposed to to receive a 12 day vacation but due to the garbage crap your management is feeding us, we're gonna give you 20 days off.

I am sure the discipline process is part of the labor agreement, which allows for appeal to the commissioner. I think there is some league (or used to be at one time) where there was no appeal allowed. But this is America. You can't appeal an umpire's call, but you can always appeal a suspension. If the commissioner could increase a suspension it would lead to further appeals.

In Alaska, a senior a few years ago was suspended from Juneau-Douglas High School for displaying a banner "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" across the street from school grounds during an ESPN-televised Olympic torch run. He originally was suspended for five days, quoted Jefferson in defense of his rights and the principal told him that would be 10 days. He sued the school district in federal court and lost. He appealed that, and the decision was overturned by the 9th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, which ruled this spring that the school violated his free speech rights, citing not only precedent but recent cases from other circuits. He's in college in Idaho now, but the Juneau-Douglas school district won't let it die. Administrators have enlisted Kenneth Starr to petition the U.S. Supreme Court for review.

As for Barrett, considering he committed a wanton act of violence without warning or provocation, other than his blocking a baserunner's path without the baseball, the league needs to set an example.

If it follows the "everyone hates him" defense, everyone would have license to take a free shot at Barrett.