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View Full Version : North side fire sale, when!


soxinthecity
05-24-2006, 11:04 PM
So when does it start any predictions?

And for those of you who have scrub friends and say you feel sorry for them, do you really?

Everytime I see someone in any scrub wear I think to myself geeze Why?

Tragg
05-24-2006, 11:12 PM
When Bob Howry is the best player on your team, it's more like a college student garage sale.

Beer Can Chicken
05-24-2006, 11:18 PM
I'd hate to say it but I'd take Eyre or Howry at this point. Other than Lee, thats about all they got.

kittle42
05-24-2006, 11:24 PM
Everytime I see someone in any scrub wear I think to myself geeze Why?

That's the same thing I think any time I see another Cubs thread started!

chuckn98229
05-24-2006, 11:27 PM
Everytime I see someone in any scrub wear I think to myself geeze Why?

Everytime I see someone in any scrub-wear I think to myself - geez, WHY would anyone walk around with that mark of ignorance so prominently displayed? (i.e. the big red 'C'.)

Lip Man 1
05-24-2006, 11:39 PM
I think Barrett, Walker, Maddux, Howry, Eyre and Dempster could bring them a number of prospects.

Lip

Tragg
05-24-2006, 11:51 PM
I think Barrett, Walker, Maddux, Howry, Eyre and Dempster could bring them a number of prospects.

Lip
Together, yes; none individually would bring a top prospect.

Barret's a decent hitter for a catcher...he's probably the most valuable. Howry and Eyre just signed big contracts and are getting up in age; Dempster's just not that good; Walker is a pretty good hitter for a middle infielder, but a bad middle infielder (and not close to good enough to play regular DH).
There is a reason, beyond injuries, that this team is bad.

Lip Man 1
05-24-2006, 11:56 PM
Trag:

Tell that to teams desperately looking for pitching help in late July when the 'price of poker' goes sky-high.

Lip

Banix12
05-24-2006, 11:57 PM
It's not going to happen anytime soon. If Hendry has shown anything as GM it's that he is stubborn. Last year when everybody knew they weren't going anywhere he activated Wood and pitched him out of the pen, which postponed his surgery, postponed his rehab, and hense he starts his first game this season in May.

I also think Hendry, in trying to show the fans that the team could have competed if healthy, might keep the team together in the second half hoping they go on a strong run to give the illusion of respectablity. So then he can use the excuse "If we were healthy we would have made the playoffs"

I don't think they'll sell off enough guys to make it a true fire sale and gut the team but if he does start trading someone it will be right around the all star break.

Howry, Eyre and Dempster are all signed long term I believe and are going to stick around. The only bullpen guys available are likely Williamson, Novoa, and probably Rusch if you are an idiot and want to take on his 2 year contract. I wouldn't mind Williamson.

In the field Walker is available and is probably the only available offensive player worth trading for.

Pierre is probably available but after trading three pitchers to get him I can't imagine Hendry letting him walk. He'll sign him to a small contract in the offseason and hope he rebounds.

Other than that I could see Wood or Maddux traded out of the rotation, though I sort of doubt it.

And if anybody wants them, Bynum, hairson, Perez, Mabry, Blanco could all be had for peanuts. Literally.

The problem with the cubs having a fire sale is that they would have to play the kids, and the cubs farm system hasn't really produced any good hitters for a while. The last really good hitters to come out of the cubs system were Palmeiro and Grace, drafted in 1985. Between then and now, roughly 20 years, the best hitter the cubs produced from their minor leagues was Doug Glanville.

Mohoney
05-24-2006, 11:58 PM
Watch Juan Pierre go absolutely nuts in another uniform come August, when he's far, far away from this train wreck and Hendry has traded him for a case of Michelob Ultra, half a doobie, cash considerations, and a PTBNL.

Tragg
05-25-2006, 12:01 AM
Trag:

Tell that to teams desperately looking for pitching help in late July when the 'price of poker' goes sky-high.

Lip .guys like dempster, howry and eyre are traded all the time in July...these guys have the added problem of a contractual albatross...I'm sure some will be traded, so we'll see.

I think the Cubs would be better off trading Wood in July than in the winter. No one can possibly trust him for an entire season (or more), but might be worth the risk for 3 months....they might actually get more for him.
Whatever happend to Wood pitching in relief?

Mohoney
05-25-2006, 12:02 AM
Between then and now, roughly 20 years, the best hitter the cubs produced from their minor leagues was Doug Glanville.

Powerful stuff, and 100% dead-on.

All I can say is, WOW.

Banix12
05-25-2006, 01:00 AM
Powerful stuff, and 100% dead-on.

All I can say is, WOW.

It's the reason I laugh whenever some cubs fan talks about how great Felix Pie is going to be.

The only other cub I think over that period to have a nice long career, mostly as a starter was Joe Girardi, who was also a Dallas Green draft pick. But he was mostly around for his defense. Since then, 5 GMs have been in charge and all they got to show for it is Glanville.

StillMissOzzie
05-25-2006, 01:00 AM
.guys like dempster, howry and eyre are traded all the time in July...these guys have the added problem of a contractual albatross...I'm sure some will be traded, so we'll see.


If the Cubs are ready to back up the truck, I don't think these multi-year contracts will be an obstacle. The Cubune has eaten much bigger contracts than theirs:
:shammy
"What's everyone lookin' at me for?"

SMO
:D:

Banix12
05-25-2006, 01:13 AM
If the Cubs are ready to back up the truck, I don't think these multi-year contracts will be an obstacle. The Cubune has eaten much bigger contracts than theirs:
:shammy
"What's everyone lookin' at me for?"

SMO
:D:

Different situation. They had to get rid of Sammy and every team in the league knew it so they were forced to eat that deal. They are perfectly willing to hang onto Howry, Eyre, and Dempster because I'm sure Hendry has some delusion about contending next season.

If they ditch anybody they'll just be getting rid of guys on the last year of deals who they have no intention of resigning. And probably some guys with multi-year deals that stink, like Perez and Rusch. Though he'll have to eat those contracts.

ode to veeck
05-25-2006, 01:16 AM
I heard Don King passed on Barrett already, but the Cubune wants to make him a regular columnist aka Flubs cheerleader

ilsox7
05-25-2006, 02:23 AM
I think the Cubs would be better off trading Wood in July than in the winter. No one can possibly trust him for an entire season (or more), but might be worth the risk for 3 months....they might actually get more for him.
Whatever happend to Wood pitching in relief?

Wood will be a FA this winter unless the Cub picks up the team option. Also, his stats suggest he'd be a poor reliever. The first 25 pitches of the game he gets hammered.

getonbckthr
05-25-2006, 03:08 AM
Out of the players possibly available and the list of teams potentially looking for players:
Pierre-Angels, Texas, Col, SF
Wood- Ari, LAD, COL, NYY, NYM, CLE,TEX,SF,
Walker- SF, NYM, BOS
Barrett-TEX, COL, PHI,
Neifi- maybe my 16 in softball team
Mabry- anyone pretty much cause he's a LH bench option
Jaque-NYY, ANA, LAD
My question here is we have to make a move for either a CF or SS using Bmac as the prize of the deal would you be willing to take a chance on Wood as long as we don't have to pay an arm and a leg? I think put him with Coop and Herm not only would he stay healthy but I also feel he could reach his full potential.

Nellie_Fox
05-25-2006, 03:23 AM
...would you be willing to take a chance on Wood as long as we don't have to pay an arm and a leg? I think put him with Coop and Herm not only would he stay healthy but I also feel he could reach his full potential.Absolutely not. It's way too late to rehab him into someone who could stay healthy.

Banix12
05-25-2006, 03:28 AM
Out of the players possibly available and the list of teams potentially looking for players:
Pierre-Angels, Texas, Col, SF
Wood- Ari, LAD, COL, NYY, NYM, CLE,TEX,SF,
Walker- SF, NYM, BOS
Barrett-TEX, COL, PHI,
Neifi- maybe my 16 in softball team
Mabry- anyone pretty much cause he's a LH bench option
Jaque-NYY, ANA, LAD
My question here is we have to make a move for either a CF or SS using Fingernails on a blackboard as the prize of the deal would you be willing to take a chance on Wood as long as we don't have to pay an arm and a leg? I think put him with Coop and Herm not only would he stay healthy but I also feel he could reach his full potential.
Like I implied in the other thread. Trading pitching, not to mention a really good young starting pitcher like McCarthy, because you are dissapointed in the offensive production of your 8 and 9 hitters is one of the dumber things I have ever heard.

McCuddy
05-25-2006, 08:08 AM
Fire sale?


http://www.miamidolphins.com/images/lockerroom/coachingstaff/portrait_wannstedt_d.jpg

All the pieces are in place, once Wood, Prior, and Lee are back...

The Critic
05-25-2006, 08:56 AM
And for those of you who have scrub friends and say you feel sorry for them, do you really?

Yeah, I really do.
The Cub friends I have are die-hards, not "bleacher creatures". They know the game, and love their team. I really did feel bad for them when the Cubs gacked that 3-1 series lead in 2003, but my sympathy was counter-balanced by the relief of not having the Cubbie trolls spouting off forever about the Baby Bears making it to the World Series. "In Dusty We Trusty".....:rolleyes:

I don't even mention the Sox 2005 Series win to my Cub friends...............well, not MUCH, anyway........ :wink: :redneck

Ol' No. 2
05-25-2006, 10:05 AM
Absolutely not. It's way too late to rehab him into someone who could stay healthy.I think Wood probably could stay healthy if he were pitching out of the bullpen. Far less stress on the arm. If he has any future in baseball, that's it.

Banix12
05-25-2006, 10:24 AM
I think Wood probably could stay healthy if he were pitching out of the bullpen. Far less stress on the arm. If he has any future in baseball, that's it.

I would agree that is his eventual future. But this year, because of soreness he struggles to make back to back starts. I doubt he is any position right now to go on back to back days. I doubt he could even go every two or three days.

And this is a relatively new thing. I thought I heard he wasn't doing this on his minor league rehab, and he was throwing harder down in A ball this year.

It's going to happen but I doubt it's a good idea this year at the deadline.

White Sox Randy
05-25-2006, 10:50 AM
I really don't think that they will have a big fire sale.

Most likely they trade Pierre, bring up Pie.

Trade Wood, if he can stay healthy.

I think that they WILL TRADE MADDUX.

They couldn't get **** for Walker before the season so I don't see how that will change.

I think that they will keep their bullpen intact - Dempster, Eyre and Howry. They probably trade Williamson.

How can they trade Barrett - they have no one to replace him with and they love him ?

So my predictions are :

TRADE

Pierre, Maddux, Williamson and Wood

Keep

Ramirez, Walker, Eyre, Howry, Dempster, Barrett and Jones

Tragg
05-25-2006, 11:08 AM
Like I implied in the other thread. Trading pitching, not to mention a really good young starting pitcher like McCarthy, because you are dissapointed in the offensive production of your 8 and 9 hitters is one of the dumber things I have ever heard.
I agree, that would be an incredibly bad move to trade an excellent young pitcher, almost for any reason, much less to plug a hole in the bottom of the order.
Pierre pretty much sucks; Ramirez isn't worth his $10 million a year. I never liked their club much, nor shared the infatuation with marlins players (pierre, lowell, burnett), so maybe I'm biased.

drewcifer
05-25-2006, 11:26 AM
Why does everyone keep suggesting Maddux will be traded? This is his option year, best I know, and he's done anyway. Unless, people are suggesting that they're going to trade him away before the July deadline? But that would be stupid after excercising a $9M option.

He'll finish up the year with the Flubs and then end up on the Dodgers or DBacks or Padres next year (he lives in Vegas anyway).

getonbckthr
05-25-2006, 12:50 PM
Like I implied in the other thread. Trading pitching, not to mention a really good young starting pitcher like McCarthy, because you are dissapointed in the offensive production of your 8 and 9 hitters is one of the dumber things I have ever heard.
99% of the time I agree with you. However with the situation the Sox have right now with the rotation signed through 07 or 08 Mccarthy is in a tough spot. He deserves to be in the rotation but there is no where to put him (not even replacing the struggling Garland). By the time these guys contracts are up I would figure Haegar and Liotta would be ready to step in to replace 2 of the 5. Now sure we can possibly deal one of them but the quality of player you would get in return would greatly dip. Not to mention as well as Mack has played I don't feel comfortable with him being the main CF'er and many people feel Brian isn't ready for that job yet. I don't know maybe its just my obsession with Carl Crawford.

LongLiveFisk
05-25-2006, 12:52 PM
It's the reason I laugh whenever some cubs fan talks about how great Felix Pie is going to be.

Ha! I heard that about Ty Griffin (that IS his name, right?) for a long time too. I'd like to know what he's doing these days.

getonbckthr
05-25-2006, 12:52 PM
Why does everyone keep suggesting Maddux will be traded? This is his option year, best I know, and he's done anyway. Unless, people are suggesting that they're going to trade him away before the July deadline? But that would be stupid after excercising a $9M option.

He'll finish up the year with the Flubs and then end up on the Dodgers or DBacks or Padres next year (he lives in Vegas anyway).
He has deadline trade written all over him. Aging veteran pitcher with an option on his contract with at that point only really a 4.5 million dollar contract.

drewcifer
05-25-2006, 01:44 PM
He has deadline trade written all over him. Aging veteran pitcher with an option on his contract with at that point only really a 4.5 million dollar contract.
With all due respect, I completely disagree.

'06 was his final year; no more options or extensions in his contract. Linky (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/news/chc_news.jsp?ymd=20040218&content_id=638617&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp)

Further, since he surpassed his 400 inning requirement in '04 and '05 of his contract (Another Linky) (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=chc&playerID=118120) he's GUARANTEED his $9M BY THE CUBS.

If I'm Hendry who just signed a contract extension, I'm going to use his geriatric ass as much as I possibly can to get out of the cellar and put up some kind of respectable finish. Further, to give away Maddux (which is what they'd be doing since they've got to pay for him) somebody would have to give up a ton to equate to 1/2 of that contract. And at the end of July? Not likely unless it's the Yankees trying to secure a playoff spot and RJ and Mussina are down....

It'd have to be a pretty extreme set of circumstances, in other words, for a deadline move to make any sense at all IMO.

Flight #24
05-25-2006, 02:19 PM
With all due respect, I completely disagree.

'06 was his final year; no more options or extensions in his contract. Linky (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/news/chc_news.jsp?ymd=20040218&content_id=638617&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp)

Further, since he surpassed his 400 inning requirement in '04 and '05 of his contract (Another Linky) (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=chc&playerID=118120) he's GUARANTEED his $9M BY THE CUBS.

If I'm Hendry who just signed a contract extension, I'm going to use his geriatric ass as much as I possibly can to get out of the cellar and put up some kind of respectable finish. Further, to give away Maddux (which is what they'd be doing since they've got to pay for him) somebody would have to give up a ton to equate to 1/2 of that contract. And at the end of July? Not likely unless it's the Yankees trying to secure a playoff spot and RJ and Mussina are down....

It'd have to be a pretty extreme set of circumstances, in other words, for a deadline move to make any sense at all IMO.

The $4.5M isn't that bad, especially for a contender that's looking for a bottom of the rotation guy without a long-term deal. The fact that the contract expires after this year is the key. Also, the "going rate" for a decent pitcher is $7-9M, so Maddux isn't that expensive relative to market. He's also a name so if the deal doesn't work out, he can point to "hey, I got the best guy out there, an HOF vet with tons of postseason experience".

He'll bring a decent, but not great haul in return. Probably the best of anyone they can deal (with the possible exception of Prior or Ramirez, who I think won't get dealt).

sullythered
05-25-2006, 02:32 PM
99% of the time I agree with you. However with the situation the Sox have right now with the rotation signed through 07 or 08 Mccarthy is in a tough spot. He deserves to be in the rotation but there is no where to put him (not even replacing the struggling Garland). By the time these guys contracts are up I would figure Haegar and Liotta would be ready to step in to replace 2 of the 5. Now sure we can possibly deal one of them but the quality of player you would get in return would greatly dip. Not to mention as well as Mack has played I don't feel comfortable with him being the main CF'er and many people feel Brian isn't ready for that job yet. I don't know maybe its just my obsession with Carl Crawford.

But how old is Brandon, 22? There's no need to force him into the rotation before '08. Just because we are set at starting pitcher (for now) doesn't mean we should drastically devalue our own asset, and trade him to slightly shore up the bottom of the order. Plus, Uribe has shown that he is a better player than he's been so far this year. He's just slumping.

On top of that, I have immeasurably more faith that McCarthy is going to be a viable starter in the bigs than either Haeger or Liotta. I'm not willing to risk it, unless we get a young all-star in return.

Tragg
05-25-2006, 02:52 PM
99% of the time I agree with you. However with the situation the Sox have right now with the rotation signed through 07 or 08 Mccarthy is in a tough spot. He deserves to be in the rotation but there is no where to put him (not even replacing the struggling Garland). By the time these guys contracts are up I would figure Haegar and Liotta would be ready to step in to replace 2 of the 5. Now sure we can possibly deal one of them but the quality of player you would get in return would greatly dip. Not to mention as well as Mack has played I don't feel comfortable with him being the main CF'er and many people feel Brian isn't ready for that job yet. I don't know maybe its just my obsession with Carl Crawford.Those pitchers MAY be ready, and at least Haeger certainly doesn't figure to ever by a McCarthy level hurler. McCarthy's also really young. And Crawford isn't an 8/9 hole plug; he's a promising young hitter. - it would be a reasonable trade, just one I wouldn't make - just my preference to keep young arms like that.
Plus, we can trade one of our other pitchers in the offseason.
I could see Maddux going to the Yankees.

1 Dog
05-25-2006, 07:26 PM
I also think that Steinbrenner will make a move to trade for Maddux. (Oh the irony. The Yankees have even fewer prospects than the Cubs, IIRC.)

Maddux cannot stay with the Cubs if he is serious about 400 wins. Their pen has cost him at least three wins already this season. That said, I have no idea if Maddux is shooting for 400. I would, if only because he may be the last 400 game winner in baseball for many, many years to come.

Barrett is a mediocre defensive catcher who hits. It seems like he is overvalued by other teams as well. He is developing a rep. as a head case, so you may want to trade before the next incident (there will be another).

No one in their right mind would want over half of the Cubs' roster. Perez, Hairston, et al. are barely major league players. (I take that back. Neifi does not belong in MLB.) Wood and Prior may not even have any future as starters, at least not at market price.

Lee has a no-trade clause. I wouldn't exercise it if I were Derek (the money is guaranteed), but there you go.

Banix12
05-25-2006, 07:41 PM
99% of the time I agree with you. However with the situation the Sox have right now with the rotation signed through 07 or 08 Mccarthy is in a tough spot. He deserves to be in the rotation but there is no where to put him (not even replacing the struggling Garland). By the time these guys contracts are up I would figure Haegar and Liotta would be ready to step in to replace 2 of the 5. Now sure we can possibly deal one of them but the quality of player you would get in return would greatly dip. Not to mention as well as Mack has played I don't feel comfortable with him being the main CF'er and many people feel Brian isn't ready for that job yet. I don't know maybe its just my obsession with Carl Crawford.

We're talking about the 8 and 9 hole. Uribe will turn it around, we've seen stretches like this before so lets forget about SS for now. As for CF, defense is the key and offense is really a bonus in the 9 hole anyway. It might be nice to find a player who will hit above .200 and play solid D if Anderson keeps struggling but there no need to blow the bank on Carl Crawford. You could probably get by with guys like Tike Redman or Ryan Church.

If I'm the cubs I trade Maddux. Sure he has largely pitched pretty well this year but he also has not reached 100 pitches in any start I believe. As I recall he pulled himself out of a game against the padres at around 80 pitches because he knew he probably couldn't get anymore players out. Get what you can now, I doubt he is good for much longer.

SoxFan76
05-25-2006, 09:48 PM
Random comment referring to a topic on page 2:

I don't feel sorry for my Cub fan friends at all. You know why? Most of them used to be Sox fans, but switched to the dark side around 94 when the strike happened. They didn't have to switch.

Chips
05-25-2006, 10:19 PM
I also think that Steinbrenner will make a move to trade for Maddux. (Oh the irony. The Yankees have even fewer prospects than the Cubs, IIRC.)

Maddux cannot stay with the Cubs if he is serious about 400 wins. Their pen has cost him at least three wins already this season. That said, I have no idea if Maddux is shooting for 400. I would, if only because he may be the last 400 game winner in baseball for many, many years to come.

Barrett is a mediocre defensive catcher who hits. It seems like he is overvalued by other teams as well. He is developing a rep. as a head case, so you may want to trade before the next incident (there will be another).

No one in their right mind would want over half of the Cubs' roster. Perez, Hairston, et al. are barely major league players. (I take that back. Neifi does not belong in MLB.) Wood and Prior may not even have any future as starters, at least not at market price.

Lee has a no-trade clause. I wouldn't exercise it if I were Derek (the money is guaranteed), but there you go.

400 wins:rolleyes:

No ****ing way. Maddux has 323 wins to date. He might finish this season with 15 or 16 wins, I doubt it though. He'll need at least four more full seasons in baseball averging 16 to 17 wins a season. I don't think so.

drewcifer
05-25-2006, 10:33 PM
400 wins:rolleyes:

No ****ing way. Maddux has 323 wins to date. He might finish this season with 15 or 16 wins, I doubt it though. He'll need at least four more full seasons in baseball averging 16 to 17 wins a season. I don't think so.

I knew that was coming....

1 Dog
05-25-2006, 11:26 PM
I think the mere fact that Maddux signed with the Cubs means that he isn't going for 400. He would have had a shot with an AL offense, except he has never shown any interest in changing leagues. I think it's likely that Maddux couldn't make it in the AL [insert umpire joke here].

At any rate, my point was that Maddux would probably be interested in the Yankees if he really wants to try for 400. That would be his best opportunity. Also, it's not like Steinbrenner never overpays for over-the-hill "name" pitchers...

champagne030
05-25-2006, 11:37 PM
I think the mere fact that Maddux signed with the Cubs means that he isn't going for 400. He would have had a shot with an AL offense, except he has never shown any interest in changing leagues. I think it's likely that Maddux couldn't make it in the AL [insert umpire joke here].

At any rate, my point was that Maddux would probably be interested in the Yankees if he really wants to try for 400. That would be his best opportunity. Also, it's not like Steinbrenner never overpays for over-the-hill "name" pitchers...

He would've received more run support in the AL than the flubs gave him, but he would've been tattooed in the AL. Did you have a nine martini lunch today?

Chips
05-25-2006, 11:44 PM
He would've received more run support in the AL than the flubs gave him, but he would've been tattooed in the AL. Did you have a nine martini lunch today?

And he way too old to think about 400 wins.

1 Dog
05-25-2006, 11:44 PM
I believe I typed "I think it's likely that Maddux couldn't make it in the AL." Meaning, he would get hammered. Reading is FUNdamental.

WE may all agree that Maddux can't make 400. That's irrelevant. The question is "Does he?" and if so, how will that influence his decisions?

Whatever your opinions of the guy might be, someone will give him a contract for 2007-2008 if he wants it.