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Beautox
05-24-2006, 07:04 AM
*this is my response to a thread @ soxtalk reworded a bit

AVG HR RBI SB/CS BB SO OBP Age
Corey Patterson .306 5 18 15/1 8 19 358 26


I've been following Patterson since he left the Cubs. As it stands now it appears the Baltimore Orioles got away with murder they only had to give up Nate Spears and Carlos Perez for him. Patterson will make between 2.8 and 3.4 million this year in playing time incentives. I think Corey got a bad rap by the Cubs front office, they needed a scape goat (no pun intended) and whom better to serve up then their highly touted 5 tool player Korey Patterson who was having a down year. I feel the reason Corey struggled is as follows: he never had a defined role in the batting order, horrid coaching and a manager who doesn't believe in walks or holding his players accountable.

::puts on flame-retardant suit & Brian Anderson jersey::

Now I have a hypothetical question here for everyone: the Orioles who are most likely going to be in the cellar all year long with the D-Rays in the Al East, they need pitching badly, would they be willing to give up Corey Patterson to a contender like the White Sox for pitching prospects and/or Anderson?

I'm a huge Anderson supporter but I realize there are going to be growing pains at the plate (Joe Crede) and as it stands now Kenny wants to have a constant contender along with winning it all again this year and for years to come. What better way to enhance the line up and maintain sterling defense along with making the Cubs front office look foolish than acquire 1998 first round, third over all draft pick Corey Patterson?

Anderson is only 24 and Patterson is only 26, I feel their defense is a wash. Patterson in my eyes has the potential to be a 30/30 caliber player and I think he might finally be living up to his potential at the major league level.

This would be the line up as of today

# Name Bats AVG HR RBI SB/CS BB SO OBP AGE
22 Scott Podsednik L .282 1 12 18/6 22 22 376 30
15 Tadahito Iguchi R .307 6 23 4/3 13 37 363 31
25 Jim Thome L .303 18 43 0 36 46 439 35
14 Paul Konerko R .313 12 38 0 24 25 399 30
23 Jermaine Dye R .299 12 34 3/1 20 24 406 32
12 A.J. Pierzynski L .343 2 13 0 8 18 392 29
24 Joe Crede R .291 8 30 0 9 14 329 28
17 Corey Patterson L .306 5 18 15/3 8 19 358 26
5 Juan Uribe R .197 3 13 0 6 27 233 27
*Charts are fun

That line up is so well balanced and stacked which is why it probably will not happen http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif.

I think if we had Corey as our eighth hitter it would give a lot more protection to Juan and at the same time Juan would have to more selective at the plate and not give ABs away. Also Ross Gload would most likely have to give up the # 17 to Patterson.


Discuss

soxinem1
05-24-2006, 07:40 AM
I raised the question months ago and most WSI'ers were against it. Some reasons were valid, others dwelled on him being a cub.

At the same time, Patterson has started off well before, only to turn into a defensive K machine, with defense meaning his swing, not his glove.

True, I believe the change of scenery helped him, but going to a losing team from a losing team is not exactly a pressure-packed situation. But going to a contender, especially to the city you just got forced out of a few months before, may not be a real good idea for a player with an already fragile psyche.

And regarding BA, well, you can't have an All-Star at every position. Anderson's come up with some big hits, and he's played CF as good as anyone. With some of the ugly AB's Uribe has had, not to mention a few boneheaded plays made by him the last few weeks, I don't see anyone calling for his head.

When you are 30-15 and are among the league leaders in HR, runs, and batting average, you have the luxury of breaking in players.

If we were the Royals, maybe, but if there is any area the Sox should work on is the bullpen, not the line up. Since the Sox stuck with Crede for defensive reasons, I don't see why BA can't get the same consideration. He's played hard, has not loafed, and been a key contributor.

So my vote is to leave this one as is.

Beautox
05-24-2006, 08:23 AM
With regards to Patterson becoming a K machine i think thats goes hand in hand with bad coaching, and a manager who doesn't hold players accountable, remember hes "papa bear", and as i previously stated not having a defined role in the batting order.

As far as coming back to a city where a certain organization and fan base were calling for your head and booing your every AB, i personally would come back with a chip on my shoulder and seeing how Patterson has always been a competior i think he would make a good addition and play with fire in his stomach.

Uribe has been steadily picking up his avg and has proved himself at Major League level Anderson is not proven and isn't picking up his avg, once again I'm in the kids corner hes got nothing but talent but its painful to watch him at the plate, and Mackowiak in CF almost Ozuna painful. Ozzie even said yesterday they're going to play Mackowiak more frequently and only let Brian face lesser right handers.

Your right we are 30-15 but what if we only had one quasi automatic out in our 9 hole? i think we would be significantly better than 30-15 and Detroit would be in our rear view mirror. I don't have enough didgets on my hands and feet to count the number of times the bases have been juiced for Anderson only to watch him weakly ground out or strike out.

Personally i think our bullpen will be fine, Jeff Nelson = ROOGY, Matt Thornton has been very impressive as of late, Jenks is Jenks, Cotts is Cotts, Pollitte will get the 7th, and McCarthy has been looking good.

Lastly the Sox stuck with Crede when they weren't defending a world championship and they also drafted Josh Fields because Crede wasn't living up to his potential. I'm not saying Brian hasn't given his all because he has, but sometimes that not enough and i wouldn't even call Patterson an "All-Star", i just think he is a complete CF and would make a already awesome white sox team amazing.

Tragg
05-24-2006, 08:59 AM
Patterson was a nice aquisition by the Orioles it appears; and he would hardly be given away at this poitn.

Patterson's had 2 good months and his walk rate remains poor. Little early to draw conclusions on his staying power, especially with his track record in pressure positions (and joining the world champs is a pressure position).

Ozzie isn't exactly a big time walk manager himself, although our power hitters and Pods do it pretty well.

I see no reason to give up on the 9 hole hitter who plays great D in an important defensive position after 2 months.

chaerulez
05-24-2006, 09:14 AM
Yes I think we do have to remember that the O's likely aren't just going to give away Patterson as if he continues to do good, he's going to be one of the only few valuble position players they have.

Beautox
05-24-2006, 09:19 AM
im going to have to disagree with you Chae & Tragg. Patterson's contract is over with after this season. Pitching wins plain and simple, and the Orioles don't have any, the sox have a surplus, they'll deal him.

soxinthecity
05-24-2006, 09:31 AM
I always thought Corey Just wanted to get out without asking to, and by doing so not looking like the quitter and his comeback is saying "hey they traded me I never asked for it".

And the way they don't seem to know how to discipline or develop players, it's no wonder players who leave seem to always find out how to play a little better in their new surroundings.

Irishsox1
05-24-2006, 09:38 AM
Getting away from the unnecessary pressure that the Cubs and the Tribune Corp put on Corey Patterson is one of the big reasons for his turn around in Baltimore. The Tribune made him out to be an instant 5 tool player and when he struggled and then hurt his knee, the Trib turned there backs on him and off went Corey. Who knows if his play will continue, but getting away from the Cubs/Trib Corp is the best thing for Patterson.

daveeym
05-24-2006, 09:46 AM
This is just mental masturbation at this point. Don't want him. They won't trade him. Coming back to Chicago, even if on the other side of town, would not be good for Patterson. It would be fun though to see Hangar's head explode trying to figure out if the Patterson stories should be labeled as Sox or Cubs stories. :cool:

D. TODD
05-24-2006, 10:37 AM
He became the favorite whipping boy on the northside. When a player becomes the scapegoat for all that is wrong with a team a change of scenery is desperately needed and it can do a world of good. Patterson has a long way to go to show he can be consistent, but not being booed and second guessed for every at bat will give him a chance to succeed. Now with the scrubs, in Chicago, it was all downhill if he stayed.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-24-2006, 12:47 PM
Cubs may have had a ML worthy lineup if they fired Dusty and kept Patterson (who he wouldn't play) as well as Nomar Garciaparra (.370 5 HR, 30 RBI, 23 R, .430 OBP, 1.087 OPS). Such is life on the northside (sigh).

Beautox
05-25-2006, 07:27 AM
I don't think they should have picked up Jones and i really don't think Hendry's selling point should have been "hes a sox killer". I think they should have just moved Patterson to RF, hes got the arm but as previously stated he would prolly be wreck there and wouldn't have an established spot in the batting order. But when you roll with Dusty everything comes up 7s, Drink up Cubs fans :gulp:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3867/801/400/dusty_dice.jpg

Tragg
05-25-2006, 10:10 AM
im going to have to disagree with you Chae & Tragg. Patterson's contract is over with after this season. Pitching wins plain and simple, and the Orioles don't have any, the sox have a surplus, they'll deal him. Surplus pitching? Where? And if we had it, I wouldn't trade it to rent Corey Patterson.

itsnotrequired
05-25-2006, 11:28 AM
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3867/801/400/dusty_dice.jpg

I still crack up every time I see that picture.:cool:

Banix12
05-25-2006, 06:33 PM
I don't think they should have picked up Jones and i really don't think Hendry's selling point should have been "hes a sox killer". I think they should have just moved Patterson to RF, hes got the arm but as previously stated he would prolly be wreck there and wouldn't have an established spot in the batting order. But when you roll with Dusty everything comes up 7s, Drink up Cubs fans :gulp:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3867/801/400/dusty_dice.jpg

I agree that they shouldn't have picked up Jones basically because what Patterson showed with the bat in his tenure with the cubs is that if you just left him alone he would probably put up Jacque Jones type numbers at 1/3rd the cost.

As I said in another thread. What the cubs did with Corey Patterson just showed me why they haven't developed at really good major league hitter since Dallas Green was the GM. They had a guy who looked like he could become a solid major league RBI guy and tried to turn him into a leadoff man. You don't try to force a square peg in a round hole. He also had like 7 batting coaches barking in his ear at once. Last year I think he was just confused at what he was supposed to do.

I thought the sox should have looked into him in the offseason as 4th OF. Judging by what the cubs have traded for in the last couple years it would have only cost the sox some worthless 2nd base prospect. I thought he would be an Ideal 9 hitter in the american league. He can drive in runs, he's not a real liability in the field, and he is fast enough that he doesn't clog the basepaths for the leadoff man.

Beautox
05-25-2006, 11:40 PM
Surplus pitching? Where? And if we had it, I wouldn't trade it to rent Corey Patterson.

oh i don't know Charlie Haeger?, Tyler Lumsden?, Lance Broadway? well maybe not broadway, last i checked they're all doing pretty well and are in our minor league system. Isn't this upcoming draft rich in RHP?

If the O's expect to compete in the East they're going to need homespun pitching just like the D-Rays. Not all problems can be addressed by simply throwing money at it, case and point Paul Konereko if i recall they offered more money than the sox, and Paul decided to stay with us i realize that isn't a pitcher but you get my point. With free agency pitching being at a ridiculous price the O's are going to need to get it to come from with in. Penn looks good but as we speak he is on the DL.

Next i wouldn't "rent" Patterson hes 26, and much like the aftermentioned Paul Konereko (whom was traded to us by the Reds when the dodgers gave up on him), i think his best years are ahead of him.

Beautox
05-25-2006, 11:55 PM
I agree that they shouldn't have picked up Jones basically because what Patterson showed with the bat in his tenure with the cubs is that if you just left him alone he would probably put up Jacque Jones type numbers at 1/3rd the cost.

As I said in another thread. What the cubs did with Corey Patterson just showed me why they haven't developed at really good major league hitter since Dallas Green was the GM. They had a guy who looked like he could become a solid major league RBI guy and tried to turn him into a leadoff man. You don't try to force a square peg in a round hole. He also had like 7 batting coaches barking in his ear at once. Last year I think he was just confused at what he was supposed to do.

I thought the sox should have looked into him in the offseason as 4th OF. Judging by what the cubs have traded for in the last couple years it would have only cost the sox some worthless 2nd base prospect. I thought he would be an Ideal 9 hitter in the american league. He can drive in runs, he's not a real liability in the field, and he is fast enough that he doesn't clog the basepaths for the leadoff man.

i agree with you, the cubs do have an incompetent coaching staff. I too think he would be great in the lower part of the order like i previously said, i think if we had Patterson as our #8 hitter, it would be like a second coming of the top of the order. Juan wouldn't give ABs away i think a little patience would help his free swinging ways, Patterson is defiantly a threat on the basepaths (15SB/1CS). Also it would be hard to play the "match up game" with out running your bull pen dry. The batting order would be so well balanced

L Podsednik
R Iguchi
L Thome
R Konerko
R Dye
L Pierzynski
R Crede
L Patterson
R Uribe

gf2020
05-26-2006, 12:25 AM
*this is my response to a thread @ soxtalk

Yeah, you lost me right here.

Beautox
05-26-2006, 01:25 AM
Whoops, i forgot WSI is the only place on the web with knowledgeable sox fans, silly me :redface:

Rob190
05-26-2006, 01:45 AM
I actually think Patterson is going to develop into a good ballplayer. The Cubs made the mistake of rushing up to the majors, and were absolutely stymied that he struggled. He had something like 6 or 7 batting coaches telling him different things.

The O's have him batting lower in the order, so that lessons the pressure for him. Getting away from the idiotic coaching from Dusty and company should do wonders.

Banix12
05-26-2006, 02:12 AM
oh i don't know Charlie Haeger?, Tyler Lumsden?, Lance Broadway? well maybe not broadway, last i checked they're all doing pretty well and are in our minor league system. Isn't this upcoming draft rich in RHP?

If the O's expect to compete in the East they're going to need homespun pitching just like the D-Rays. Not all problems can be addressed by simply throwing money at it, case and point Paul Konereko if i recall they offered more money than the sox, and Paul decided to stay with us i realize that isn't a pitcher but you get my point. With free agency pitching being at a ridiculous price the O's are going to need to get it to come from with in. Penn looks good but as we speak he is on the DL.

Next i wouldn't "rent" Patterson hes 26, and much like the aftermentioned Paul Konereko (whom was traded to us by the Reds when the dodgers gave up on him), i think his best years are ahead of him.

The time to get Patterson was before the season when he could have been had for nothing, which is about what the Orioles got him for. While he is showing progress now, I think it would be somewhat foolish to trade away good minor league pitching depth for an OF with an erratic history and has only shown this progress over about the last month of this season. This really is only one month because he did get off to a slow start this year, and remember he has had strong periods of play before while he was in a cub uniform.

Before I go trading actual prospects for him I want to see an extended period of consistant play and I'm not talking about months here. I'm talking about years.

Just have some patience in Anderson. It's not a critical issue yet.

And if another Centerfielder is needed someday soon, there are probably other guys who can be had that can fill the 9th hitter role just fine and can be had for lesser prospects and less money.