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cbrownson13
05-23-2006, 06:22 PM
Anyone hear this? They had him on at about 4:00 for about 15-20 minutes.

He mentioned how last night was probably the most emotional night in his big league career.

He stated over and over again that his intentions weren't to anger KW with his comments this offseason.

Most of the interview was just about how he loves Chicago and he never wanted to leave and that he has nothing but great feelings for the team and the city.

He also stated that he never intended to insult Jim Thome. All he wanted to say was that they were both coming off major injuries. He said he cleared the air with Thome in spring training.

lizard6king6
05-23-2006, 06:25 PM
Wish I would of caught it. Sounds good to me though, Thomas was great while he was here, he will always be a White Sox.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2006, 06:32 PM
Don't be surprised if this stirs the pot with KW for another round of mud-slinging. Frank had a chance to say how much he appreciated everything the Sox organization did for him last year. If he had shut up right there, everything would have been fine.

But he didn't. That's Frank.

He went on to say he was hurt Jerry Reinsdorf didn't call him to deliver the news about trading for Thome. Isn't this precisely the comment that caused KW to flip out last March?

Sorry, but Frank just doesn't get it. Never did. Never will.

DickAllen72
05-23-2006, 06:41 PM
Don't be surprised if this stirs the pot with KW for another round of mud-slinging. Frank had a chance to say how much he appreciated everything the Sox organization did for him last year. If he had shut up right there, everything would have been fine.

But he didn't. That's Frank.

He went on to say he was hurt Jerry Reinsdorf didn't call him to deliver the news about trading for Thome. Isn't this precisely the comment that caused KW to flip out last March?

Sorry, but Frank just doesn't get it. Never did. Never will.

I was glad Frank got a standing ovation by the Sox fans at the game last night. If I were there, I would be standing too, even after his first home run. Shows our class.

Frank did not even have the class or the stones to make eye contact with KW last night.

Now that Frank got his standing ovation and his highlight video on the scoreboard, and had a big two homer game in his triumphant return to Chicago, I hope he just goes away quietly. I won't miss him.

maurice
05-23-2006, 06:45 PM
Most of the interview was just about how he loves Chicago and he never wanted to leave and that he has nothing but great feelings for the team and the city. He also stated that he never intended to insult Jim Thome. All he wanted to say was that they were both coming off major injuries. He said he cleared the air with Thome in spring training.

Good job, Frank.

Frank did not even have the class or the stones to make eye contact with KW last night.

*****. It's becoming increasingly obvious that KW has a personal vendetta against Frank. Kudos to Frank for being the bigger man yesterday (both literally and figuratively).

Ol' No. 2
05-23-2006, 06:48 PM
Don't be surprised if this stirs the pot with KW for another round of mud-slinging. Frank had a chance to say how much he appreciated everything the Sox organization did for him last year. If he had shut up right there, everything would have been fine.

But he didn't. That's Frank.

He went on to say he was hurt Jerry Reinsdorf didn't call him to deliver the news about trading for Thome. Isn't this precisely the comment that caused KW to flip out last March?

Sorry, but Frank just doesn't get it. Never did. Never will.Kenny already got his shot in yesterday (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060522soxthomas,1,6813799.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines). "They don't know what I know," Williams said of the fans who greeted Thomas warmly.He ought to heed the same advice Ozzie gave to Frank. Just ****.

DickAllen72
05-23-2006, 06:49 PM
Bigger man??? How so? :?:

maurice
05-23-2006, 06:55 PM
Kenny already got his shot in yesterday (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060522soxthomas,1,6813799.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines).He ought to heed the same advice Ozzie gave to Frank. Just ****.

Indeed. More of the quote (from another thread):
I was pretty clear about my feelings....What I had to say, I meant....Whatever these people [aka Sox fans] have to--they don't know what I know. All they know is what happened on the field. They can react accordingly.

I credit Frank for ignoring KW and focusing his comments on positive experiences with the city and the fans, and also for saying positive things about Thome.
:gulp:

Ol' No. 2
05-23-2006, 07:00 PM
Indeed. More of the quote (from another thread):


I credit Frank for ignoring KW and focusing his comments on positive experiences with the city and the fans, and also for saying positive things about Thome.
:gulp:It's pretty clear that while Frank is one of the best hitters of all time, he is not the sharpest pencil in the box. I don't think he says what he says out of spite. He just can't open his mouth without putting his foot in it. Kenny doesn't have the same excuse.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2006, 07:05 PM
I don't think he [Frank] says what he says out of spite. He just can't open his mouth without putting his foot in it. Kenny doesn't have the same excuse.

That's right. And furthermore I know something about Kenny Williams that all the other Sox Fans know, too. Kenny Williams was a horse**** ballplayer for the Sox.
:cool:

DickAllen72
05-23-2006, 07:07 PM
That's right. And furthermore I know something about Kenny Williams that all the other Sox Fans know, too. Kenny Williams was a horse**** ballplayer for the Sox.
:cool:

And a great General Manager. :cool:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2006, 07:10 PM
And a great General Manager. :cool:
Showing you have no control of your emotions and going out of your way to take a crap on a franchise icon is NOT a great manager of any kind, baseball or otherwise.

We have a right to expect more smarts out of Kenny Williams, precisely because he IS the general manager.

Sorry.

TommyJohn
05-23-2006, 07:16 PM
Showing you have no control of your emotions and going out of your way to take a crap on a franchise icon is NOT a great manager of any kind, baseball or otherwise.

We have a right to expect more smarts out of Kenny Williams, precisely because he IS the general manager.

Sorry.

Agreed. Williams revealing for all to hear that Thomas had financial problems
that Reinsdorf helped him with was classless and ugly. Williams will always
rate a zero in my book because of that. Thanks for the World Series
Championship, Kenny. Doesn't stop you from being a creep.

Vernam
05-23-2006, 07:18 PM
Frank's positive comments today about Thome would be more persuasive if he hadn't denigrated our new DH last night by saying he ought to be having a monster year because he's playing in such a hitter's park. Kind of inadvertently stepped on his own legacy there, wouldn't you say?

I was happy with the reception Frank got last night, and I was one of those who clapped even as he rounded the bases on that first HR. At the same time, I was imagining it must be driving Kenny nuts, so his comment about the fans wasn't a shock. I'm sure he regrets it already. As someone who's cut Frank slack over the years, I'm more than willing to do the same for a GM who brought us our first championship in, like, forever.

Vernam

SweetnesSox
05-23-2006, 07:20 PM
*****. It's becoming increasingly obvious that KW has a personal vendetta against Frank. Kudos to Frank for being the bigger man yesterday (both literally and figuratively).

agreed. let it go kenny. you'll never win in a white sox fans battle against Frank Thomas. never.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2006, 07:25 PM
Frank's positive comments today about Thome would be more persuasive if he hadn't denigrated our new DH last night by saying he ought to be having a monster year because he's playing in such a hitter's park. Kind of inadvertently stepped on his own legacy there, wouldn't you say?

I was happy with the reception Frank got last night, and I was one of those who clapped even as he rounded the bases on that first HR. At the same time, I was imagining it must be driving Kenny nuts, so his comment about the fans wasn't a shock. I'm sure he regrets it already. As someone who's cut Frank slack over the years, I'm more than willing to do the same for a GM who brought us our first championship in, like, forever.

Vernam
Actually Kenny's petty behavior was noted by several reporters during yesterday's batting practice, hours BEFORE Frank hit his dingers. I'm not sure when he made his slap at Sox Fans ("They can applaud, they don't know what I know") but there is plenty of evidence he was in a foul mood all day.

So Frank is a great hitter too dumb to know when to shut his mouth. And Kenny Williams was a horse**** ballplayer, but the very first Sox GM to bring a championship to Chicago in 88 years. He still doesn't know when to shut up either.

Kenny's mouth problem is an occupational hazard; he's management. Frank's shouldn't be; he isn't management.

Lillian
05-23-2006, 09:58 PM
Did anyone hear Frank's response yesterday, when someone asked him if he thought he deserved a statue like the one that Fisk got?

Meixner007
05-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Did anyone hear Frank's response yesterday, when someone asked him if he thought he deserved a statue like the one that Fisk got?

Yes, and I agree with him. Basically he said he hoped he would get one. He feels like he deserves one with all the things he's accomplished with the Sox, and he's right.

INSox56
05-23-2006, 10:21 PM
I think he deserves one as well. I don't get how people think that Frank was putting a shot in at Thome about the "hitter's ballpark". Don't you realize that if he was making that an insult to Thome....he'd be insulting himself because all of his stats were in that same park? Think about it. I love Kenny and all, but I really don't like his going off. Just drop it and cool out...you're management.

RKMeibalane
05-23-2006, 10:39 PM
Did anyone hear Frank's response yesterday, when someone asked him if he thought he deserved a statue like the one that Fisk got?

I think Frank was probably in a no-win situation with that. If he says "no," people will think he's sulking again. He answered the question honestly, and that's the end of it.

RKMeibalane
05-23-2006, 10:42 PM
I think he deserves one as well. I don't get how people think that Frank was putting a shot in at Thome about the "hitter's ballpark". Don't you realize that if he was making that an insult to Thome....he'd be insulting himself because all of his stats were in that same park? Think about it. I love Kenny and all, but I really don't like his going off. Just drop it and cool out...you're management.

I don't understand the problem with the Thome remark, either. People in the local and national media said the exact same thing when the season started- it's a great hitter's park: Thome should have a good year there. I'm sure that's all Frank meant. Both he and Thome have said that the two of them are close friends and have great respect for each other. End of story.

DickAllen72
05-23-2006, 11:25 PM
Sorry.

You should be.

No Kenny Williams, no World Series championship.

Lillian
05-23-2006, 11:29 PM
Yes, and I agree with him. Basically he said he hoped he would get one. He feels like he deserves one with all the things he's accomplished with the Sox, and he's right.

He probably does deserve a statue, but his answer speaks volumes about what is perhaps his biggest problem; his hubris. How many players would ever lobby for such a tribute? Even though one may believe they deserve a statue, they would likely say something like; "well, that would certainly be quite an honor, but I don't have anything to say about that. I'm grateful for any recognition I may receive for my accomplishments. It's always nice to be appreciated."
But I guess Frank is often just too "Frank". He has never learned tact or humility.

DickAllen72
05-23-2006, 11:38 PM
Showing you have no control of your emotions and going out of your way to take a crap on a franchise icon is NOT a great manager of any kind, baseball or otherwise.


Excuse me, but didn't Kenny go out of his way to make sure Frank was honored last post-season? He made a special point of handing him the trophy both after the WS game and at the parade. He made it a point to call him the greatest player in Sox history. Not to mention the invitations to throw out the first pitch in the playoffs.

KW swallowed his pride and acted like a big man in putting aside his personal problems with Frank in order to send him off with the honor he deserved.

Frank responded by taking a crap on Kenny and the Sox. "If I would have known I wasn't coming back, I would have never participated in the post season activities." Gee Frank, I thought you were participating for your teammates and the fans. He even skipped the White House ceremony.

Now I wish Kenny would have swallowed his pride one more time and not said anything about Frank, but I can't blame him that he did. Kenny is human too.

As I said, I'm glad Frank got his standing ovation--he deserved it for his accomplishments on the field. But he's still a small man.

BTW, did he ever thank the White Sox organization for the video tribute? Maybe he did, but I haven't heard it.

DickAllen72
05-23-2006, 11:39 PM
He probably does deserve a statue, but his answer speaks volumes about what is perhaps his biggest problem; his hubris. How many players would ever lobby for such a tribute? Even though one may believe they deserve a statue, they would likely say something like; "well, that would certainly be quite an honor, but I don't have anything to say about that. I'm grateful for any recognition I may receive for my accomplishments. It's always nice to be appreciated."
But I guess Frank is often just too "Frank". He has never learned tact or humility.

Bingo!

MadetoOrta
05-23-2006, 11:47 PM
Frank's never been much when it comes to PR and running a music production company. I'm proud [but not at all surprised] at the reaction from Sox fans. I too would have stood and applauded Frank. With respect to KW, he did go out of his way for Frank last fall to make him a part of the celebration. If I can quote the Big Hurt from today, "it's time to move on."

Suburbanbuddha
05-24-2006, 01:43 AM
I seems to me that Frank's attitude reflects years of frustration at his H.O.F. numbers being overshadowed by steroid bloated cheaters like Sosa. Right up to and including missing out on the 2000 MVP to Giambi. One theory on Bonds is that he took a "if you can't beat em, join em" approach and BALCOed himself up after the Mac and Sosa races. Frank, and Thome as well, took the high road and stayed clean when others gave in. It's understandable how one can feel unappreciated under those circumstances. Frank may not always say the right thing, but he has always seemed to me more misunderstood than anything else.
Kenny Williams, on the other hand, comes off as an arrogant jackass. Granted he is an excellent GM, but he seems to have a constant need to prove that he's the toughest guy in the room. What could he possibly have to gain by getting into it with Frank? Sure Frank was venting on his way out, but if anyone ever earned a little space to vent, it was Frank. For KW to bring up personal financial stuff as a parting shot was just bush league and said a lot more about Kenny than it did about Frank.
Frank Thomas was THE MAN for the better part of 15 years on the Sox and that is something that Kenny Williams will never be. I hope Frank gets his 500, retires from an A's team that loses to the Sox in the ALCS, and walks into the HOF on the first ballot. My hope for KW is that learns to shut up, realizes that office guys do not get to be THE MAN, and puts together championship Sox teams for many years.

HotelWhiteSox
05-24-2006, 01:47 AM
Showing you have no control of your emotions and going out of your way to take a crap on a franchise icon is NOT a great manager of any kind, baseball or otherwise.

We have a right to expect more smarts out of Kenny Williams, precisely because he IS the general manager.

Sorry.

Yes, the Spring Training tirade was embarrassing. There's no doubt he deserved GM of the year last year and I'll love him for putting together the team, but it doesn't mean he can do no wrong

jabrch
05-24-2006, 01:51 AM
He said he cleared the air with Thome in spring training.

More accurately, Thome clears the air REGULARLY. Frank WAS the best player this franchise ever had. But he's not half the ballplayer that Thome is today.

ewokpelts
05-24-2006, 01:56 AM
Agreed. Williams revealing for all to hear that Thomas had financial problems
that Reinsdorf helped him with was classless and ugly. Williams will always
rate a zero in my book because of that. Thanks for the World Series
Championship, Kenny. Doesn't stop you from being a creep.Frank had financial problems because of a divorce, and oh..let me remember this...kenny enacted the diminished skills clause on frank, thus robbing him of 9.5 million A YEAR. the only reason frank stayed with the sox was because of jerry FORCING kenny to re-sign him.
kw is an assclown, no matter how many trophies he wins......just like krause
Gene

hawkjt
05-24-2006, 02:23 AM
You have two extremely proud men who have both contributed mightily to the enjoyment of sox fans in their own way. I think Frank came into chicago determined not to ruffle feathers. And I think he has done that.

Kenny comes off looking almost jealous of the love of Frank from the sox fans when he says the '' they dont know what I know'' comment.

Of course we dont know all the dirty little details. We dont want to either.
When I heard Ed Sherman and Teddy Greenstein opine that sox fans came out and rooted for Frank because they had heard about the Cleveland deal with Thome I want to reach into my tv and strangle them. Like marriotti today calling sox fans sheep that fell into line cuz ozzie told them to cheer for frank. These media jerks just do not get the relationship between the hard core sox fans and Frank.

They never paid hard earned money to go to a game and see a Frank Thomas majestic shot that ends up winning the game. I dont care about the behind the scenes crap or if frank is nice to the media. I care about getting a performance on the field that I pay for with hard earned cash. That is what Frank always gave us.

North is such a jerk, saying that Frank was only good like 8 years of 16.

As it was said the media and kenny will never win against Frank with sox fans. They should all just shut up.

chaerulez
05-24-2006, 02:33 AM
For what he did as a player, I love what he did on the field for the Sox. But I have to group Frank in with people like Scottie Pippen, Ron Artest, Kirby Puckett, Bill Romanowski, Albert Belle, etc...

These guys were great players, but off the field/court or how they handled themselves with the front office of their oganizations was just plain stupid.

hawkjt
05-24-2006, 02:44 AM
Sorry, but you are nuts lumping frank in with those guys. who all had off field arrests ect.

Frank never had one hint of a problem off the field with the law. He had one issue his whole career and it was with management and his contract.

Geez - Artest? Puckett? Belle? Romanoski?

They were all arrested or charged with crimes. Frank didnt like his contract. Really similar.

wassagstdu
05-24-2006, 07:39 AM
Frank WAS the best player this franchise ever had. But he's not half the ballplayer that Thome is today.

Thomas may have been the best hitter in Sox history, but he was certainly not the best player. He was always a MAJOR defensive liability, and a liability at first makes the whole infield weaker. And he was never the same hitter at DH that he was when he played first. I'll take Konerko or Thome today vs Frank in his prime.

That said, I was proud of the class shown by Sox fans by giving him the ovation he deserved.

skobabe8
05-24-2006, 09:26 AM
Yes, the Spring Training tirade was embarrassing. There's no doubt he deserved GM of the year last year and I'll love him for putting together the team, but it doesn't mean he can do no wrong

:o:

"Witnesses say HotelWhiteSox was typing at his computer shortly before becoming vaporized. A suspicious vehicle, a Hummer with license plates that read 'KW', was spotted fleeing the scene."

Hangar18
05-24-2006, 09:39 AM
Indeed. More of the quote (from another thread):


I credit Frank for ignoring KW and focusing his comments on positive experiences with the city and the fans, and also for saying positive things about Thome.
:gulp:


YES. B&B seemed like they were trying to go down that dark alley again,
but Frank this time, instead of being truthful and letting the reporter steer the conversation, instead just was positive and light. Good For Him.
B&B at one point asked, "Frank, why do you think the Media has always twisted and painted you in a bad light?" Frank said he didnt no, it was always like that when he was here. I SCREAMED AT THE RADIO.

Because of the Chicago Media. They Love the Cubs and everything SOX they try HARD to paint in a bad light. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT FRANK.
Everyone remember Rick Morrisseys Thomas article?

Flight #24
05-24-2006, 10:24 AM
Sorry, but you are nuts lumping frank in with those guys. who all had off field arrests ect.

Frank never had one hint of a problem off the field with the law. He had one issue his whole career and it was with management and his contract.

Geez - Artest? Puckett? Belle? Romanoski?

They were all arrested or charged with crimes. Frank didnt like his contract. Really similar.

Not to mention that despite all that, he never held out or really threatened to leave/demanded a trade. He hinted at holding out, but guess where he was on reporting day? That's right - in camp.

As for Frank's comments yesterday, they were pretty clear: He appreciated everything they did for him last year, his only problem was that he felt after his tenure with the org, he deserved to know that they were letting him go before it was a done deal. That's it. He repeated that a few times. As part of that, he thought maybe JR would have given him a call. Yet he repeatedly said he has nothing but respect for the org & JR Where people get from that "he's taking shots" or "he still doesn't get it" is beyond me.

The greatest player in franchise history, and a first-ballot HOFer thought he deserved to be told that the team was going to try to move on rather than being told "hey big man - we just replaced you". That unreasonable bastard!

Yesterday's interview was 100% classy by Frank. He took the high road as he has in everything I've seen since Oakland arrived in town. KW is the one still sulking & moaning, which reflects a lot more on him than on Frank.

Frater Perdurabo
05-24-2006, 10:26 AM
I'll take Konerko or Thome today vs Frank in his prime.

No offense, but you really don't inspire a lot of confidence in your baseball smarts with a statement like that.

Konerko's best season was 2005: a .909 OPS, .283 AVG, 40 homers.

Thome's best season was 2002: 1.122 OPS, .304 AVG, 52 homers.

Frank's best season was 1994: 1.217 OPS, .353 AVG, 38 homers (in only 113 games, due to the strike). He was on pace for 55 homers that year.

There's no doubt that Thome is having a fantastic season (technically on pace for 64 homers, but won't play much in NL parks this June). But with all due respect to Thome, he would have to raise his game to an entirely new level to equal Frank's 1994. And with all due respect to Konerko, Thomas has had 11 full or partial seasons with an OPS higher than Konerko's best season!

There's no doubt that Frank wasn't a fantastic defensive player, but he was adequate catching the ball, which is 95% of what first basemen do. His only deficiency was throwing, which first basemen do very rarely.

In his prime, Frank Thomas was one of the two or three greatest right-handed hitters in MLB history. To say you would take Thome or Konerko today over Frank in his prime really is not a very smart thing to say.

Ol' No. 2
05-24-2006, 10:30 AM
Frank had financial problems because of a divorce, and oh..let me remember this...kenny enacted the diminished skills clause on frank, thus robbing him of 9.5 million A YEAR. the only reason frank stayed with the sox was because of jerry FORCING kenny to re-sign him.
kw is an assclown, no matter how many trophies he wins......just like krause
GeneWrong.

The "diminished skills" clause only allowed them to defer the money for a few years. Frank still got every dime.

INSox56
05-24-2006, 10:35 AM
Has anybody ever thought of the correlation between Ozzie and Frank in one viewpoint? Ozzie says what he feels, what he thinks at the time. He's passionate and says a lot of things he probably shouldn't. He gets chastized a bit but it's just "Ozzie being Ozzie". Frank goes off the handle a little bit about being disrespected and not being picked up again, which, I feel, is founded. He was hurt and a bit miffed at being in a place and being the face (good or bad) of the franchise for a LONG time and just really dumped. The only way he found out they weren't bringing him back was because the Thome trade was announced. So he flew off the handle a bit, got passionate and spoke his mind at the time. Are some of us fans being hippocritical?

RKMeibalane
05-24-2006, 10:35 AM
I'll take Konerko or Thome today vs Frank in his prime.

:rolling:

MarySwiss
05-24-2006, 10:36 AM
You have two extremely proud men who have both contributed mightily to the enjoyment of sox fans in their own way. I think Frank came into chicago determined not to ruffle feathers. And I think he has done that.

Kenny comes off looking almost jealous of the love of Frank from the sox fans when he says the '' they dont know what I know'' comment.

Of course we dont know all the dirty little details. We dont want to either.
When I heard Ed Sherman and Teddy Greenstein opine that sox fans came out and rooted for Frank because they had heard about the Cleveland deal with Thome I want to reach into my tv and strangle them. Like marriotti today calling sox fans sheep that fell into line cuz ozzie told them to cheer for frank. These media jerks just do not get the relationship between the hard core sox fans and Frank.

North is such a jerk, saying that Frank was only good like 8 years of 16.

Yes, those were extremely stupid comments. Sox fans, including many who post here, have been discussing whether or not to cheer Frank on his return for months. But what else can you expect from these guys?

RKMeibalane
05-24-2006, 10:40 AM
Has anybody ever thought of the correlation between Ozzie and Frank in one viewpoint? Ozzie says what he feels, what he thinks at the time. He's passionate and says a lot of things he probably shouldn't. He gets chastized a bit but it's just "Ozzie being Ozzie". Frank goes off the handle a little bit about being disrespected and not being picked up again, which, I feel, is founded. He was hurt and a bit miffed at being in a place and being the face (good or bad) of the franchise for a LONG time and just really dumped. The only way he found out they weren't bringing him back was because the Thome trade was announced. So he flew off the handle a bit, got passionate and spoke his mind at the time. Are some of us fans being hippocritical?

I don't necessarily think it's hypocricsy as much as I do the fact that because Frank is the best player in White Sox history, people think that he should be as great a person as he is a ballplayer, and I'm not sure if that's fair.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not condoning the negative things Frank has said or done, but I think the biggest problem some people have with him is that even though he's built like a superhero, he's still just human being like anyone else. Frank Thomas has weaknesses, several in fact. I'd say that's true of just about everyone on the planet. The difference between Frank and the average poster on this board, however, is that Frank is public figure who makes a lot of money, and so people think that means he should automatically be a better person than everyone else.

If anything, I think Frank's greatest crime is that he can't meet everyone's expectations, because there's always someone out there who wants more.

McCuddy
05-24-2006, 10:43 AM
When I heard Ed Sherman and Teddy Greenstein opine that sox fans came out and rooted for Frank because they had heard about the Cleveland deal with Thome I want to reach into my tv and strangle them. Like marriotti today calling sox fans sheep that fell into line cuz ozzie told them to cheer for frank. These media jerks just do not get the relationship between the hard core sox fans and Frank.


They also don't take into account that the fan base can be pretty smart. I was at opening day in 1985 when the Boston Red Sox' Bill Buckner received a rousing ovation from the fans. They felt, I assume, that a guy who was the face of a lousy organization and played hard every day only to be cast aside before claiming his championship deserved respect.

russ99
05-24-2006, 11:11 AM
I'm throroughly sick of all this Frank trashing.

This is his moment in the sun and deserves the cheers and accolades for being such a great Sox player for all those years (on a lot of bad teams, too) and being the one true fan favorite all that time. Isn't Frank the last active player who was with the Sox at Old Comiskey?

His problems off the field should really not be mentioned, it only serves to drag his name down. Thomas certainly doesn't belong in the same class as a Belle or Sosa, since he was always on the side of the fans.

The media will always try to stir up a hornets nest. That's what sells newspapers and tv/radio ads. Just ignore them.

Let's all remember him for all the joy he's given us... I for one will always remember Ventura's grand slam with Frank so happy afterwards, he was throwing Robin around like a sack of potatoes.

Let the big guy have his time to soak in the deserved adulation. Once the A's leave town for the season we can all return our focus to this years outstanding team and on defending our World Series title.

ode to veeck
05-24-2006, 11:24 AM
You should be.

No Kenny Williams, no World Series championship.

Championship or no championship, KW needs to let it go and focus on his job, not Frank Thomas. A ring is still no excuse for being an *******.

RKMeibalane
05-24-2006, 11:29 AM
Championship or no championship, KW nees to let it go and focus on his job, not Frank Thomas. A ring is still no excuse for being an *******.

Well said. It's also important to keep the following in mind: Frank Thomas has sixteen years of "street credit," for lack of a better term, with White Sox fans. Kenny Williams has one. The White Sox are on top of the baseball world, but there's no guarantee that they'll stay there. If Williams isn't careful, he'll find out the hard way just how bitter Sox fans can be when thigns don't go well. By the time we would be through with him, Williams would be begging Reinsdorf to fire him.

GoGoSoxReborn
05-24-2006, 12:31 PM
[quote=wassagstdu] I'll take Konerko or Thome today vs Frank in his prime.[quote]

This is easily the dumbest comment ever made at WSI.

itsnotrequired
05-24-2006, 12:36 PM
This is easily the dumbest comment ever made at WSI.

Lots of competition but it certainly ranks up there.:cool:

fuzzy_patters
05-24-2006, 12:49 PM
[quote=wassagstdu] I'll take Konerko or Thome today vs Frank in his prime.[quote]

This is easily the dumbest comment ever made at WSI.

Some of the FOBB comments were much dumber. Where are those guys, anyway?:bandance:

BainesHOF
05-24-2006, 01:01 PM
The fact that Boers and Bernstein have no interviewing skills showed against again when they talked with Frank. As usual, their questions were awkward and erractic. I can't believe Boers was actually a journalist. He falls all over himself when asking a question, like a nervous guy on a first date. Instead of actually trying to conduct a revealing interview, it was clear their intentions were simply to aggitate Frank, who was too naive, as he often has been, to recognize it.

maurice
05-24-2006, 03:20 PM
Frank was asked about a statute and said that he hopes he gets one. That's not "lobbying." Lobbying is what Ron Santo does.

KW bragging about all he allegedly did for Frank at the parade is just another example of KW being an *******. Frank is the greatest player in Sox history. The very least you can do is hand him the ****ing trophy and give him 20 seconds to talk. (Heck, it should have been in the program, particularly since many lesser players and one who speaks very little English were in the program.) KW also knew that he was about to cut Frank loose. Of course, he didn't tell him that. JR had just told a radio audience during the playoffs that the Sox would work something out with Frank to bring him back for 2006. KW made similar public comments throughout the 2005 season. That's why Frank was PO'ed in the first place. He played his entire career with the Sox, had a very close relationship with JR, and (reasonably) felt that the Sox deceived him. He was upset that JR didn't personally call him when the news hit. KW, in his eternal narcissism, thought that a call from him was good enough.

The good news is that it looks like Frank and JR have kissed and made up (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt24.html):
Thomas spent several minutes before Tuesday's game with his arm around Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf as the two engaged in what appeared to be a friendly conversation. Thomas left the South Side after 16 years this past offseason, signing with the A's as a free agent. While Thomas expressed disappointment with his departure throughout the winter, he and Reinsdorf shook hands when the talk ended Tuesday.

Since it looks like KW never will get over himself, he should just **** about Frank.

Steelrod
05-24-2006, 03:25 PM
Frank had financial problems because of a divorce, and oh..let me remember this...kenny enacted the diminished skills clause on frank, thus robbing him of 9.5 million A YEAR. the only reason frank stayed with the sox was because of jerry FORCING kenny to re-sign him.
kw is an assclown, no matter how many trophies he wins......just like krause
Gene
His divorce?
Half of a lot of money is a lot of money. There's more than meets the eye. We only hear sporatic Frank comments. Can you even imagine what he has spewed for 15 years that wasn't said to a reporter!

maurice
05-24-2006, 03:26 PM
KW really needs to stop referencing off the field stuff that "those people [aka us] don't know about." He previously referenced Frank's financial problems. What an ******* move. That would be like Frank calling KW out because his kids were criminals. It's irrelevant to the discussion. Stick to the on-field stuff, and look toward the present and future.

RKMeibalane
05-24-2006, 04:08 PM
KW really needs to stop referencing off the field stuff that "those people [aka us] don't know about." He previously referenced Frank's financial problems. What an ******* move. That would be like Frank calling KW out because his kids were criminals. It's irrelevant to the discussion. Stick to the on-field stuff, and look toward the present and future.

I really don't understand why KW brought any of that up. Furthermore, I found it interesting that when KW originally made his comments, he said, "It's hard after sixteen years to deal with an idiot." The problem is this: Ken Williams wasn't with the Sox for part of that time. He shouldn't be speaking about events that happened when he wasn't around, because they didn't even involve him. I've always suspected that Kenny was somewhat nosy, meddling in things that are none of his business, and these comments are further proof of that, as was his decision to interfere in the Thomas-Konerko spat four years ago. He should have Jerry "The Tinkerer" Manuel handle that himself.

hawkjt
05-24-2006, 04:14 PM
I was surprised that Frank granted an interview to those two jerks in the first place.

So he grants a lengthy interview that he does not have to do, and they badger him with leading questions that are designed to elicit a negative sound bite. Frank hangs tough and when asked directly why there were harsh words between him and kenny and he truthfully says it was because he did not get a call.

So today that arsewipe George Offman plays that little soundbite repeatedly on his updates and then editorializes

'' Not bitter eh Frank? Give it up already.''

Offman has been taking potshots at frank all week in his updates and now this. That is the thanks Frank gets from the Score for giving the interview.

I would like to do a barrett on offman. Frank cannot win with the media in this town.

Kilroy
05-24-2006, 04:30 PM
Excuse me, but didn't Kenny go out of his way to make sure Frank was honored last post-season? He made a special point of handing him the trophy both after the WS game and at the parade. He made it a point to call him the greatest player in Sox history. Not to mention the invitations to throw out the first pitch in the playoffs.

KW swallowed his pride and acted like a big man in putting aside his personal problems with Frank in order to send him off with the honor he deserved.

There's just one little flaw here: No one told Frank he was on his way out. In fact, Frank had quite a different opinion of what was going to happen in that he was under the impression that he'd be bought out and resigned at lower $$. Frank deserved to be told that possibility existed especially since KW has admitted to telling Konerko about it at the beginning of the playoffs. It's simply a matter of respect, something it's clear KW doesn't have for Frank.

And excuse me, but last I knew, Frank was on the team last year, played in games and made contribute while he was healthy enough to play. KW acts like he did Frank some big ****ing favor by letting him hold the trophy. 16 years as the greatest player in franchise history, he ****ing earned it, and should have held it before KW ever even saw it.

And I'll bet you anything that KW had absolutley nothing to do w/ organizing Frank's throwing out of the first pitch. That kind of thing doesn't have to go thru KW to be set up.

samram
05-24-2006, 04:38 PM
I really don't understand why KW brought any of that up. Furthermore, I found it interesting that when KW originally made his comments, he said, "It's hard after sixteen years to deal with an idiot." The problem is this: Ken Williams wasn't with the Sox for part of that time. He shouldn't be speaking about events that happened when he wasn't around, because they didn't even involve him. I've always suspected that Kenny was somewhat nosy, meddling in things that are none of his business, and these comments are further proof of that, as was his decision to interfere in the Thomas-Konerko spat four years ago. He should have Jerry "The Tinkerer" Manuel handle that himself.

Well, when you have a manager that can't handle any type of clubhouse problem, you have to deal with it yourself.

That aside, this is so silly (not what you're saying, I mean this whole affair). Neither side is free of fault and I think the media plays/played a big role in this as well. Kenny should have kept his mouth shut. Frank should have kept his mouth shut.

I do find it odd that so many Sox fans seem to dislike the GM who is in charge as the Sox become the #1 team in Chicago. I don't see why you can't like both KW and Frank, especially now that Frank has left, found another job, seems to be at peace with JR, and the Sox have sufficiently replaced Frank for this year (and probably the next several).

getonbckthr
05-24-2006, 05:08 PM
No offense, but you really don't inspire a lot of confidence in your baseball smarts with a statement like that.

Konerko's best season was 2005: a .909 OPS, .283 AVG, 40 homers.

Thome's best season was 2002: 1.122 OPS, .304 AVG, 52 homers.

Frank's best season was 1994: 1.217 OPS, .353 AVG, 38 homers (in only 113 games, due to the strike). He was on pace for 55 homers that year.

There's no doubt that Thome is having a fantastic season (technically on pace for 64 homers, but won't play much in NL parks this June). But with all due respect to Thome, he would have to raise his game to an entirely new level to equal Frank's 1994. And with all due respect to Konerko, Thomas has had 11 full or partial seasons with an OPS higher than Konerko's best season!

There's no doubt that Frank wasn't a fantastic defensive player, but he was adequate catching the ball, which is 95% of what first basemen do. His only deficiency was throwing, which first basemen do very rarely.

In his prime, Frank Thomas was one of the two or three greatest right-handed hitters in MLB history. To say you would take Thome or Konerko today over Frank in his prime really is not a very smart thing to say.

What about his defensive Liability in those seasons he played first base. I'm not gonna make any comments on Thomas anymore however PaleHoseGeorge you wanted my reasons for my Thomas bashing:
Don't be surprised if this stirs the pot with KW for another round of mud-slinging. Frank had a chance to say how much he appreciated everything the Sox organization did for him last year. If he had shut up right there, everything would have been fine.

But he didn't. That's Frank.

He went on to say he was hurt Jerry Reinsdorf didn't call him to deliver the news about trading for Thome. Isn't this precisely the comment that caused KW to flip out last March?

Sorry, but Frank just doesn't get it. Never did. Never will.
Thank You.

RKMeibalane
05-24-2006, 05:28 PM
Well, when you have a manager that can't handle any type of clubhouse problem, you have to deal with it yourself.

That aside, this is so silly (not what you're saying, I mean this whole affair). Neither side is free of fault and I think the media plays/played a big role in this as well. Kenny should have kept his mouth shut. Frank should have kept his mouth shut.

I do find it odd that so many Sox fans seem to dislike the GM who is in charge as the Sox become the #1 team in Chicago. I don't see why you can't like both KW and Frank, especially now that Frank has left, found another job, seems to be at peace with JR, and the Sox have sufficiently replaced Frank for this year (and probably the next several).

I do like Kenny Williams. I've said many times that he's by far the best GM in baseball. That said, I don't think he's handled this appropriately. Frank hasn't handled it well, either, but there's an important difference between the two. KW is the Sox GM. I'm sure other players around baseball are aware of the fued between the two of them, and I'm sure more than a few have wondered, "If I play for the Sox, is Kenny going to say bad things about me if I leave?"

When Frank acts like an idiot, he only hurts himself. When KW acts like an idiot, the entire Sox organization is affected. Williams needs to realize this and stop before he does something he'll regret later. He's done a great job with this team, and I don't want see him mess anything up by wasting his time goading Frank into a pissing contest.

RKMeibalane
05-24-2006, 05:31 PM
What about his defensive Liability in those seasons he played first base. I'm not gonna make any comments on Thomas anymore however PaleHoseGeorge you wanted my reasons for my Thomas bashing:

Thank You.

The only thing Frank could not do at first base was throw. He had good range for a man his size, and has always had soft hands. What's weird about the entire "Frank at 1B" mess is that nobody complained about Frank playing first base back when he was the Sox regular first baseman. The complaints started only after Jerry "The Tinkerer" Manuel moved him to DH in 1998, and Frank said that he didn't think of himself as a first baseman. It was then and only then that people started to complain about his defense.

maurice
05-24-2006, 05:36 PM
Don't forget that KW also thought it would be a good idea to walk into the clubhouse and flip over a buffet table. His irrational, hothead quality is not a new thing. I just hoped he'd develop some impulse control and become more mature with experience and success. It looked like he did when he responded to Magglio's lies in a levelheaded way, but it just makes this crap directed at Frank even more disappointing.

Well, when you have a manager that can't handle any type of clubhouse problem, you have to deal with it yourself.

Or you can fire him and hire a competent manager, which he finally did. On second thought, JR was mostly responsible for the hiring of Ozzie. KW didn't want him . . . or AJ.

I do find it odd that so many Sox fans seem to dislike the GM who is in charge as the Sox become the #1 team in Chicago.

I've generally defended KW on these boards, especially when people claimed that he gutted the minor leagues, when they said he was about to get fired / resign, when they said that his hiring over Evans was unfair affirmative action, when the JM situation turned ugly, and when he turned over the roster in 2004. A part of me wants to keep defending him, but he's so clearly out of line here. Now I'm starting to think that he gets too much credit for the work of others (Ozzie, JR, Wilder, etc.). Like I said, I don't want to feel this way, so I hope he just **** from here on out...but I'm not counting on it.

TornLabrum
05-24-2006, 08:48 PM
I don't know if he said it during the interview with B&B or if it was a few minutes later when he was on MJ&H, but somewhere Thomas said that the reason for his going off this spring was because he'd been with the team so many years and it hurt. Very similar to what I wrote in my "Fallen Arches" column. Frank was acting like a jilted lover. KW was acting like his ***** of a girlfriend who wasn't just happy to dump him but had to **** on him, too.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-24-2006, 11:10 PM
I don't know if he said it during the interview with B&B or if it was a few minutes later when he was on MJ&H, but somewhere Thomas said that the reason for his going off this spring was because he'd been with the team so many years and it hurt. Very similar to what I wrote in my "Fallen Arches" column. Frank was acting like a jilted lover. KW was acting like his ***** of a girlfriend who wasn't just happy to dump him but had to **** on him, too.

Can't believe this wasn't linked yet:

http://www.670thescore.com/includes/news_items/1/971/frankthomas_05_23.mp3

They tried to stir **** like I thought they did. Frank wanted to clear the air to his Chicago fans. He basically said he misses Chicago / wish it ended here and wished to get a call from JR. He said things were twisted for the media's sake (blamed on KW).

Frank said several times he loves Chicago, loves White Sox fans and loves the White Sox organization. The only problem he has is with Kenny which is long running.

Kenny Williams overreacted several times over the past several months and he continues to take the low road. Glad to see Frank taking the high road.

he gone!
05-25-2006, 05:38 AM
you could see the emotion/relief on his face after he hit that first tater. i think he was thinking about sox fans when he did that. or maybe not. if you don't like frank thomas you can't call yourself a sox fan. period.

Steelrod
05-25-2006, 06:27 AM
Can't believe the Danny Evans thing keeps popping up.
Evans was rejected by no less than 6 teams until he got the Dodger job.(which was very brief) Believe he is now a scout for Seattle. Not exactly the wiz kid that his friend Levine kept pushing.
A GM's job is to win. Kenny did what none of the previous GM's did the last 88 years. Thats good enough for me!
Frank always seemed to put his foot in his mouth when interviewed. Can you imagine how often he did it when there was no mike around, I can. Teammates have spoken volumes about ARow, who was here for 4 years, and almost nothing about Frank unless provoked.
None of us know what goes on behind the scenes. I"ll put my trust and faith in the winner! Kenny gave us what no other did in our lifetime, no matter how old we are!

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2006, 09:53 AM
They tried to stir **** like I thought they did. Frank wanted to clear the air to his Chicago fans. He basically said he misses Chicago / wish it ended here and wished to get a call from JR. He said things were twisted for the media's sake (blamed on KW).

Frank said several times he loves Chicago, loves White Sox fans and loves the White Sox organization. The only problem he has is with Kenny which is long running.

Kenny Williams overreacted several times over the past several months and he continues to take the low road. Glad to see Frank taking the high road.

I just listened to the interview. Boers and Bernstein DID try to stir things up. Because their first and foremost job is to augment ratings (so the station can charge more money for ad spots), they want to start controversy in order to get more people to listen. They tried time after time to bait Frank, but Frank stayed on message.

B&B are like Mariotti, Telander, Morrissey and many more media jagbags. Controversy drives ratings/sales. This happens in every city (like in Texas, where the media continuously baited Kenny Rogers, some of them secretly hoping he'd do something stupid, like assault a TV camera operator. How do I know this? I work with media people every day.). What makes it so glaring with the Sox, though, is that the Cubs get kid-gloves fluff treatment from the media, because in the "monkey see, monkey do" world of modern media, all the outlets want to emulate what the most circulated newspaper - the Tribune - does, believing that if they too fluff up the Cubs, they will be more profitable. As a result, the Sox coverage looks (and often is) extraordinarily negative.

Frank has put his foot in his mouth in the past, something I blame in large part on the Sox poor public relations department (pre-Brooks). Evidently he's getting some help from the Athletics' PR office.

voodoochile
05-25-2006, 10:04 AM
Can't believe the Danny Evans thing keeps popping up.
Evans was rejected by no less than 6 teams until he got the Dodger job.(which was very brief) Believe he is now a scout for Seattle. Not exactly the wiz kid that his friend Levine kept pushing.
A GM's job is to win. Kenny did what none of the previous GM's did the last 88 years. Thats good enough for me!
Frank always seemed to put his foot in his mouth when interviewed. Can you imagine how often he did it when there was no mike around, I can. Teammates have spoken volumes about ARow, who was here for 4 years, and almost nothing about Frank unless provoked.
None of us know what goes on behind the scenes. I"ll put my trust and faith in the winner! Kenny gave us what no other did in our lifetime, no matter how old we are!

And ARow said great things about Frank... So the greatest teammate (by your standard) loved the big man.

Flight #24
05-25-2006, 10:24 AM
And ARow said great things about Frank... So the greatest teammate (by your standard) loved the big man.

Look - this is fairly ludicrous. There are basically NO comments from teammates about Frank having incidents with teammates, altercations, or pretty much anything negative in the clubhouse. What "incidents" there are with teammates are the Manuel (shuttle), Wells, and Konerko incidents, ALL of which turned out to be legitimate injuries that guys were out of line to be complaining about.

The other crap is he's "selfish", which is never given any detail except that he was obsessed with his stats. Guess what - that's OK in baseball and most great hitters are the same. It's not like he was asked to bunt but refused. You don't ask your HOF hitter to do that because you'd rather he just hit. For example, Thome & Konerko aren't laying down many bunts either.

Frank's ONLY problem is that he's got a bit of Ozzie in him in that he says stuff in poor ways, especially when he's emotional. That's it. But that's no reason for KW to continually spout off or for fans to get as pissed as they are at a guy who, when judged by his actions, has done nothing wrong.

I'd hope all of those who are slamming Frank for his comments in this recent interview actually all listened to it first. Because EVERYTHING he said came out 100% right, no "whining", no "complaining", and no "demanding" anything. He answered questions as asked, continually said he had no problems with the org (except KW, who he wouldn't really talk about), and that his only complaint was that he was told he'd be brought back and then wasn't told that he wouldn't until after the fact. Which is legitimate given his status with the franchise.

samram
05-25-2006, 10:26 AM
Or you can fire him and hire a competent manager, which he finally did. On second thought, JR was mostly responsible for the hiring of Ozzie. KW didn't want him . . . or AJ.

And KW has forged good working relationships with these guys- why couldn't he do the same with Frank? And remember that Manuel had just received an extension the year before, I believe, and was also JR's guy.

I've generally defended KW on these boards, especially when people claimed that he gutted the minor leagues, when they said he was about to get fired / resign, when they said that his hiring over Evans was unfair affirmative action, when the JM situation turned ugly, and when he turned over the roster in 2004. A part of me wants to keep defending him, but he's so clearly out of line here. Now I'm starting to think that he gets too much credit for the work of others (Ozzie, JR, Wilder, etc.). Like I said, I don't want to feel this way, so I hope he just **** from here on out...but I'm not counting on it.

I don't see why his disagreement with Frank leads you to think that he's the beneficiary of everyone else's work. I think he's proven his worth as a GM. I can certainly see why someone would criticize him for how he's dealt with Frank- I want to him to be quiet as well. However, I think he works his ass off to make this team as good as can be.

I think a question that should be asked is, from an organizational point of view, how much do you a let a former employee say before you have to defend the organization.

voodoochile
05-25-2006, 10:30 AM
I think a question that should be asked is, from an organizational point of view, how much do you a let a former employee say before you have to defend the organization.

Which then BEGS the question: "What do you say and how do you say it?"

Should you first consult the PR department and figure out the best way to say what you want?

OR

Should you fire with all guns, slamming the player (the greatest player in team history) at a time when he is obviously upset?

KW wasn't defending the organization.

He was defending his ego...

Flight #24
05-25-2006, 10:36 AM
I think a question that should be asked is, from an organizational point of view, how much do you a let a former employee say before you have to defend the organization.

This is the point that seems to be missed. Frank has said 2 things about the organization over his tenure that one could construe as "bad".

1) "I'm underpaid." If this is a "slam" on the org, then a significant majority of players in baseball have slammed their org. Please note that he never took it to the level of saying "they don't want to win" or "they're cheap", both of which were said by many other players without a significant response from KW.

2) "I deserved a phone call before being let go". Again - nothing characterizing the org as cheap, bad, or anything. Just that he was told he'd be resigned at a lower price (or at least that they'd try to do that), and that if they'd decided to move on (which per KW is exactly what had happened), then his history with the org deserved a communication to that effect. This is true.

During neither of those comments, were actual attacks taken on the Sox, JR, KW, or anyone. In fact, in #2, he peppered the interview with statements like "I still have a lot of respect", "I don't have any bad feelings for anyone over there", etc.

KW has shown the ability to take far far worse insults than these. IMO he just hates Frank because of the "walkout" during his first team address. A Walkout which occurred BEFORE FRANK WAS EVEN REQUIRED TO REPORT, and which ended with HIM REPORTING ON TIME!!!!

samram
05-25-2006, 10:53 AM
KW has shown the ability to take far far worse insults than these. IMO he just hates Frank because of the "walkout" during his first team address. A Walkout which occurred BEFORE FRANK WAS EVEN REQUIRED TO REPORT, and which ended with HIM REPORTING ON TIME!!!!

Ok, fair enough on your post and voodoo's before yours about KW's reaction- I can agree with that and I think KW even admitted he should be above it. As for why he hates Frank, I think he laid that out pretty well in the comments that most here feel he shouldn't have made. KW seems to be very protective of JR.

jabrch
05-25-2006, 10:53 AM
I just get tired of hearing Frank constantly bitch. He signed a contract with the DSC. He had to live with having his multi-millions deferred. Poor baby. Poor poor Frank.

I'm all for what he did in the past - but to leave here and to talk trash the guys who were still here was typically silly of Frank.

It's open mouth - insert foot for Frank. Seems like it has always been that way. And the fact that he's hitting about .200 for the As makes me smile a bit inside.

voodoochile
05-25-2006, 10:57 AM
I just get tired of hearing Frank constantly bitch. He signed a contract with the DSC. He had to live with having his multi-millions deferred. Poor baby. Poor poor Frank.

I'm all for what he did in the past - but to leave here and to talk trash the guys who were still here was typically silly of Frank.

It's open mouth - insert foot for Frank. Seems like it has always been that way. And the fact that he's hitting about .200 for the As makes me smile a bit inside.

Do the 11 HR he has hit make you smile too?

Haters suck...

Let's worry about our own house. The team is doing fine without Frank. Frank had a good series and the Sox still swept the A's. Sol good.

Hope Frank gets a job doing something for the Sox even if it is only publicity related in the years to come. He's never had an off field incident that would damage his reputation and he's loved by the fans (well most of the fans...) :rolleyes:

RKMeibalane
05-25-2006, 11:08 AM
Ok, fair enough on your post and voodoo's before yours about KW's reaction- I can agree with that and I think KW even admitted he should be above it. As for why he hates Frank, I think he laid that out pretty well in the comments that most here feel he shouldn't have made. KW seems to be very protective of JR.

I can understand that, as JR has been like a father to both Frank and KW. That said, JR is perfectly capable of defending himself. Besides, Frank never said anything negative about Reinsdorf. As he has repeatedly stated, his problems are with Williams, and with Williams alone. As I've said before, I can understand what Williams got frustrated with Frank. Sometimes personalities clash. However, KW shouldn't be speaking for other people- as he did when he called Frank an idiot- and he shouldn't continue airing the Sox dirty laundry in front of the media.

One more thing. The White Sox organization has a history of ending relationships with players badly, and it has to stop. I don't care if it's Frank Thomas, Carlton Fisk, Ozzie Guillen, or a piece of **** like Julio Ramirez. Players deserve to be treated with respect because they give their all for the Sox organization, and that's the end of it. As a former player himself, Williams should have no trouble understanding this.

RKMeibalane
05-25-2006, 11:12 AM
I just get tired of hearing Frank constantly bitch. He signed a contract with the DSC. He had to live with having his multi-millions deferred. Poor baby. Poor poor Frank.

I'm all for what he did in the past - but to leave here and to talk trash the guys who were still here was typically silly of Frank.

It's open mouth - insert foot for Frank. Seems like it has always been that way. And the fact that he's hitting about .200 for the As makes me smile a bit inside.

Frank didn't trash anyone. He said, "I'm dissapointed that they didn't call me beforehand to tell me I wasn't coming back." If that's your idea of trashing someone, you must have remarkably thin skin.

woodenleg
05-25-2006, 11:15 AM
Frank didn't trash anyone. He said, "I'm dissapointed that they didn't call me beforehand to tell me I wasn't coming back." If that's your idea of trashing someone, you must have remarkably thin skin.

No ****. That was a patently mild statement. Frank is gone from Chicago, and people are STILL repeating these unsubstantiated cliches?

Where DO these people really come from, who repeat the same spoonfed CRAP.

samram
05-25-2006, 11:17 AM
One more thing. The White Sox organization has a history of ending relationships with players badly, and it has to stop. I don't care if it's Frank Thomas, Carlton Fisk, Ozzie Guillen, or a piece of **** like Julio Ramirez. Players deserve to be treated with respect because they give their all for the Sox organization, and that's the end of it. As a former player himself, Williams should have no trouble understanding this.
No doubt. The Sox are very business like in their relations with players although they do have a lot of former players back with the team now. I think one thing that hurts Frank (in some people's eyes) in this circumstance is that for the first time in forever, the Sox organization seems to be so competent from top to bottom- an owner that wants to win, a GM who is willing to take risks, and a manager and coaches who seem to get the most out of their players (except maybe Greg Walker). If Frank had left during the Schueler/Bevington era, people would have been laughing at anything Sox management said.

PennStater98r
05-25-2006, 11:17 AM
Frank didn't trash anyone. He said, "I'm dissapointed that they didn't call me beforehand to tell me I wasn't coming back." If that's your idea of trashing someone, you must have remarkably thin skin.

True dat!

I appreciate the championship, but KW has handled this all wrong. Why is it that the only time that Frank's mouth was a problem for some 'fans' was when his bat was not speaking the way we'd like it to? I never remember people taking Hurts comments negatively from '91 -' 97.

maurice
05-25-2006, 01:33 PM
I've posted this in probably 100 different Frank-hater threads, but I'll say it one more time here: I don't care that Frank didn't get along with management. I'm happy for you if you always had a wonderful relationship with management at every job you've ever held. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Sox fans were not blessed in this way. We've had plenty of our own complaints about our bosses over the years and can empathize with Frank. For all intents and purposes, the only difference is that Joe Cowley isn't sticking a tape recorder into our face and inviting us to comment on it.

KW has forged good working relationships with these guys- why couldn't he do the same with Frank?

That's a very good question. It's obviously personal. It looks like Frank currently is on good terms with everybody else assosciated with the Sox organization, including JR. Frank and Aaron are friends and have been known to hang out in Vegas during the off-season. I don't know KW personally, so I can't tell you what his reasons are, but the "reasons" he stated (allegedly on behalf of the entire organization) are total bull****. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the speculation about jealosy is correct. That also explains why KW took a veiled shot at Sox fans during the Oakland series.

I don't see why his disagreement with Frank leads you to think that he's the beneficiary of everyone else's work.

Because, more than I've admitted in the past, some of the criticisms have merit. With respect to some of the examples I cited, KW has admitted that Wilder is much much better at his responsibilities that KW ever was / could be. I'll give KW credit for hanging onto Wilder, but the majority of the credit in this area doesn't belong to KW. The same is true with respect to the signings of Ozzie and AJ. If all of KW's plans came to fruition without external influences, the 2005 team would look very different and probably would not have won a thing (I'm talking here about the "failed" Ordonez re-signing, the "failed" Erstad trade, Ozzie's demand for a "smart ball" overhaul, etc.). I've downplayed these things and defended KW in the past partly out of sympathy, but he's making it real hard with his needless comments about Frank.

I can certainly see why someone would criticize him for how he's dealt with Frank- I want to him to be quiet as well.

That's really my main point: KW, just **** man.

samram
05-25-2006, 01:54 PM
I've posted this in probably 100 different Frank-hater threads, but I'll say it one more time here: I don't care that Frank didn't get along with management.
I don't know if this was directed at me, but I didn't say I cared whether he had a good relationship with management- I just wondered why he and KW couldn't get along. I haven't lost any sleep over their disagreements.

Flight #24
05-25-2006, 02:15 PM
That's a very good question. It's obviously personal. It looks like Frank currently is on good terms with everybody else assosciated with the Sox organization, including JR. Frank and Aaron are friends and have been known to hang out in Vegas during the off-season. I don't know KW personally, so I can't tell you what his reasons are, but the "reasons" he stated (allegedly on behalf of the entire organization) are total bull****. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the speculation about jealosy is correct. That also explains why KW took a veiled shot at Sox fans during the Oakland series.


IMO it all stems back to Frank walking out on KW during his first "address" as GM. What KW fails to recognize is that it had nothing to do with him or Frank's feelings towards him. The timing was purely coincidental, had it been Schu as GM the same would have happened. KW also fails to remember that Frank had actually reported early and then walked out, and that he actually ended up being in camp on the official report date.

Since that point, KW has had it in his head that Frank's a bad guy and he needs to get rid of him. And he's stewed in his inability to do so until now. It's unbecoming for a guy who otherwise has shown that he's a prety classy and highly talented GM.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-25-2006, 02:15 PM
True dat!

I appreciate the championship, but KW has handled this all wrong. Why is it that the only time that Frank's mouth was a problem for some 'fans' was when his bat was not speaking the way we'd like it to? I never remember people taking Hurts comments negatively from '91 -' 97.

I haven't seen the negative posts here about Konerko and his comments in quite a long time.

KW shouldn't bash the fans and really needs to get over this issue and himself.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-25-2006, 02:19 PM
If all of KW's plans came to fruition without external influences, the 2005 team would look very different and probably would not have won a thing (I'm talking here about the "failed" Ordonez re-signing, the "failed" Erstad trade, Ozzie's demand for a "smart ball" overhaul, etc.).

Not to mentioned the failed bids for Griffey or Aubrey Huff / Danny Baez during the stretch drive last year. Rowand, Crede and Jenks worked out just fine and things may (probably) would not have worked out as they did if one or two trade deadline deals went through.

maurice
05-25-2006, 02:24 PM
I don't know if this was directed at me....

No, it was a general comment. That's why I stuck it over your quote.

jabrch
05-25-2006, 03:00 PM
Do the 11 HR he has hit make you smile too?

Haters suck...

Let's worry about our own house. The team is doing fine without Frank. Frank had a good series and the Sox still swept the A's. Sol good.

Hope Frank gets a job doing something for the Sox even if it is only publicity related in the years to come. He's never had an off field incident that would damage his reputation and he's loved by the fans (well most of the fans...) :rolleyes:

I don't hate Frank. I hate the Oakland As. He's an A. I have fond memories of what he did while he was here, but have no problem hating him when he wears an As uni. I wouldn't boo him - but that's a different story.

And VC, as far as his 11 HRs go (actally 9, right?) they don't offset his .197 avg or the behaviour that he exhibited on his way out of town, and even during his final few years with the club.

RKMeibalane
05-25-2006, 05:18 PM
I don't hate Frank. I hate the Oakland As. He's an A. I have fond memories of what he did while he was here, but have no problem hating him when he wears an As uni. I wouldn't boo him - but that's a different story.

And VC, as far as his 11 HRs go (actally 9, right?) they don't offset his .197 avg or the behaviour that he exhibited on his way out of town, and even during his final few years with the club.

It is nine home runs, though he could end up with eleven soon because the Rangers (Oakland's next opponent) have no pitching.

DickAllen72
05-25-2006, 05:34 PM
Let's worry about our own house. The team is doing fine without Frank. Frank had a good series and the Sox still swept the A's. Sol good.



Amen to that.

Flight #24
05-25-2006, 06:17 PM
I don't hate Frank. I hate the Oakland As. He's an A. I have fond memories of what he did while he was here, but have no problem hating him when he wears an As uni. I wouldn't boo him - but that's a different story.

And VC, as far as his 11 HRs go (actally 9, right?) they don't offset his .197 avg or the behaviour that he exhibited on his way out of town, and even during his final few years with the club.

I think VC was referring to his HRs from last year (that's the 11, right?). As for his "behaviour on his way out of town", see the numerous comments actually citing what he said. Legitimate complaints sprinkled in among positive comments about his time here shouldn't be reason to downgrade him in any way.

RKMeibalane
05-25-2006, 06:27 PM
I think VC was referring to his HRs from last year (that's the 11, right?). As for his "behaviour on his way out of town", see the numerous comments actually citing what he said. Legitimate complaints sprinkled in among positive comments about his time here shouldn't be reason to downgrade him in any way.

I thought he hit twelve home runs las season, but I could be mistaken.

voodoochile
05-25-2006, 10:35 PM
I think VC was referring to his HRs from last year (that's the 11, right?). As for his "behaviour on his way out of town", see the numerous comments actually citing what he said. Legitimate complaints sprinkled in among positive comments about his time here shouldn't be reason to downgrade him in any way.

No I had a brain fart. I knew he had 9 and I knew he hit two in Chicago. I came up with 11. Should have checked the stats.

jabrch
05-25-2006, 10:44 PM
No I had a brain fart. I knew he had 9 and I knew he hit two in Chicago. I came up with 11. Should have checked the stats.

Whatever...this year...last year... my point is the same.

I respect Frank for what he did while he was here. But I'm not at all upset that he is struggling to be productive for Oakland, and if I had to side with him or KW, with all due respect to what Frank did over the course of his career here, he was less instrumental than KW at bringing us the World Championship. I had more fun last season than I did in the previous 34 combined. KW has my ultimate and unwaivering support in the same vain as some folks (you and RKM [both of you I respect a great deal] come to mind VC) will support Frank. It's not good or bad - it's just personal preference.

voodoochile
05-25-2006, 10:48 PM
Whatever...this year...last year... my point is the same.

I respect Frank for what he did while he was here. But I'm not at all upset that he is struggling to be productive for Oakland, and if I had to side with him or KW, with all due respect to what Frank did over the course of his career here, he was less instrumental than KW at bringing us the World Championship. I had more fun last season than I did in the previous 34 combined. KW has my ultimate and unwaivering support in the same vain as some folks (you and RK come to mind VC) will support Frank. It's not good or bad - it's just personal preference.

I don't feel the need to side with either of them Yeah, Frank is my favorite player of all time. It means nothing in terms of what I am talking about.

KW has a big fat mouth. He needs to learn to shut it. Frank isn't paid to be the face of the organization. He wasn't paid to do anything but see baseball hit baseball. KW has a bigger responsibility and with that responsbility comes the necessity to learn when to ****.

Everyone knows Frank is a drama queen with a big mouth who wears his heart on his sleeve. Big freaking news. Big freaking deal. It has absolutely NO bearing on his job description.

KW on the other hand...

RKMeibalane
05-25-2006, 11:02 PM
I don't feel the need to side with either of them Yeah, Frank is my favorite player of all time. It means nothing in terms of what I am talking about.

KW has a big fat mouth. He needs to learn to shut it. Frank isn't paid to be the face of the organization. He wasn't paid to do anything but see baseball hit baseball. KW has a bigger responsibility and with that responsbility comes the necessity to learn when to ****.

Everyone knows Frank is a drama queen with a big mouth who wears his heart on his sleeve. Big freaking news. Big freaking deal. It has absolutely NO bearing on his job description.

KW on the other hand...

Which goes back to what I was saying the other day. When Frank Thomas acts like an idiot, he hurts only himself. When Ken Williams acts like an idiot, the entire White Sox organization is affected. KW needs to realize this and keep quiet. Other people around baseball are watching, and they do take things like this into consideration when thinking about making trades, free-agent signings, etc.

Let me state again for the record the following:

Kenny absolutely made the right move by letting Frank go. I would have done the exact same thing in his position, because Frank just isn't capable of being the player he has been in past, largely due to age and injuries. Jim Thome is a far superior hitter at this point, and the Sox are better off with him than with Thomas. Even Frank's most staunch supporters agree with this assessment.

That said, this saga needs to come an end. Frank returned to the South Side and gave the fans one more chance to cheer him on. It looks like the return trip has helped him clear his head after all this time, as he appears to be getting locked in at the plate again- he had two hits tonight against the Rangers, and is six for his last thirteen.

Kenny Williams, meanwhile, has a ballclub to run. The Sox have a tough series coming up against the Blue Jays, and they need to play well to keep pace with Detroit. That's where the focus needs to be from now on. The Sox will Frank again later in the season, but by then, I hope they have a firm grasp on first place, so that they can face Oakland in the postseason.

Oh, and jabrch, thanks for the appreciation. I have a lot of respect for you, as well. :cool:

Nellie_Fox
05-26-2006, 01:21 AM
And the fact that he's hitting about .200 for the As makes me smile a bit inside.Schadenfreude. Not a particularly attractive human tendency.

samram
05-26-2006, 01:48 AM
Which goes back to what I was saying the other day. When Frank Thomas acts like an idiot, he hurts only himself. When Ken Williams acts like an idiot, the entire White Sox organization is affected. KW needs to realize this and keep quiet. Other people around baseball are watching, and they do take things like this into consideration when thinking about making trades, free-agent signings, etc.
I think Kenny realizes this and I don't think it will be an issue again anytime soon- of course, the greatest player in team history won't be leaving anytime soon again, so that will help.

Let me state again for the record the following:

Kenny absolutely made the right move by letting Frank go.
Correct.

That said, this saga needs to come an end.
Correct. That goes for both Frank and KW.

Kenny Williams, meanwhile, has a ballclub to run.
Correct. And I think he will. I think he's done with all this.

jabrch
05-26-2006, 01:59 AM
Schadenfreude. Not a particularly attractive human tendency.

That's why most people who know me hate me...but that's not what we are here to discuss now, is it?

I'll admit it. It isn't politically correct. It isn't nice. It sets me up for some ****ty karma. But I enjoy watching Billy Beane, Oakland and that whole group suffer. Their arrogance of thinking they changed baseball was silly. THEY THRIVED BECAUSE OF STEROIDS AND A FEW PITCHERS WHO ALL DEVELOPED AT THE SAME TIME. It wasn't "Moneyball".

Seeing them suffer makes me happy.

Nellie_Fox
05-26-2006, 02:01 AM
That's why most people who know me hate me...but that's not what we are here to discuss now, is it?

I'll admit it. It isn't politically correct. It isn't nice. It sets me up for some ****ty karma. But I enjoy watching Billy Beane, Oakland and that whole group suffer. Their arrogance of thinking they changed baseball was silly. THEY THRIVED BECAUSE OF STEROIDS AND A FEW PITCHERS WHO ALL DEVELOPED AT THE SAME TIME. It wasn't "Moneyball".

Seeing them suffer makes me happy.You didn't talk about Oakland in that post, you talked about Frank. You were enjoying his difficulties.

voodoochile
05-26-2006, 05:57 AM
You didn't talk about Oakland in that post, you talked about Frank. You were enjoying his difficulties.

Exactly...

Enjoying the pain of a group of arrogant group of people who think they have the answer to everything when in reality they got lucky and cheated and still never truly achieved success is one thing.

Enjoying the pain of someone who is a bit of a big mouth, but otherwise a fine athlete and someone who wore your team colors for 95% of their career and is clearly the team's best player over that stretch of time (and quite possibly ever) and who has been good to fans and never had any off field problems is something else.

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2006, 10:32 AM
:tomatoaward

Well, bringing this back to Frank.... :redneck

Let's hope Frank and Kenny someday can find the intestinal fortitude, or sense of grace and dignity, to bury the hatchet with one another.

Beauty35thStreet
05-27-2006, 01:01 AM
Good job, Frank.



*****. It's becoming increasingly obvious that KW has a personal vendetta against Frank. Kudos to Frank for being the bigger man yesterday (both literally and figuratively).

I agree wholeheartedly. DickAllen72 probably missed Williams quoted "the fans don't know what I know." That's ridiculous. Kenny has shown in the past five years that he'll hold grudges.

Do you honestly think KW doesn't know Frank Thomas is walking his way, if he doesn't look his way and just has a peeved look on his face, you would know to avoid him.

I like KW and am not trying to insult him, but saying Frank Thomas never got it? That's ridiculous. He was the only constant the Sox had for awhile.

Beauty35thStreet
05-27-2006, 01:10 AM
Frank's positive comments today about Thome would be more persuasive if he hadn't denigrated our new DH last night by saying he ought to be having a monster year because he's playing in such a hitter's park. Kind of inadvertently stepped on his own legacy there, wouldn't you say?

Vernam

I heard the comments too, but he didn't say he ought to have a monstruous year, he said that he ought to do well (meaning things will work out for him, not he should do well) because of Cell being a hitter's park and good for lefties.

jabrch
05-27-2006, 09:56 AM
You didn't talk about Oakland in that post, you talked about Frank. You were enjoying his difficulties.

Both are true. I enjoy seeing anyone on Oakland suck. Frank is on Oakland. I also enjoy watching guys who have big mouths after they are cut suck. Frank had a big mouth after he left. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

If Frank were not a White Sox, I wouldn't be a fan of his. He's not anymore.

I have guys who I am fans of on other teams. It just wouldn't be a guy like Thomas. That's my own personal opinion. Part of it is the DH thing. Part of it is his mouth. But as far as I am concerned, KW was right. The organization did so much for Frank. He should have just shut his trap on the way out.

Beauty35thStreet
05-28-2006, 01:05 AM
Frank always seemed to put his foot in his mouth when interviewed. Can you imagine how often he did it when there was no mike around, I can. Teammates have spoken volumes about ARow, who was here for 4 years, and almost nothing about Frank unless provoked.
None of us know what goes on behind the scenes. I"ll put my trust and faith in the winner! Kenny gave us what no other did in our lifetime, no matter how old we are!

Are you serious? Where are people speaking volumes about ARow and where are people not talking volumes about Frank? ARow was one, Uribe hung with him, believe me, a lot of people like #35 and spoke volumes for him. There might not be as much media gushing over #35 as with ARow, but in this town, I expect that. Remember even ARow said it in 2004 I think "You think Sox, you think #35" By the way, KW gave us a winner? He was not the sole reason---if there was no Ozzie, no Schueler projects that worked out, etc, and contributions from #35, there'd have been no championship---it's much more than KW.

When the Sox went to Detroit last year, Ordonez mentioned how he met with Frank and I believe Konerko.

It's unfortunate that now goofs are on this website.