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View Full Version : Veteran Pickups--Successes?


Procol Harum
02-02-2002, 12:00 PM
OK WSI dudes, the pick-up of Kenny Lofton has me somewhat nervous because as a long-time Sox guy I've seen this "strategy" of picking up veteran discards many a time before. While it almost always seems to work for teams like the Yankees and the Braves, it seems to inevitably blow-up in the Sox fans' collective kisser--Rocky Colavito, Ken Boyer, Jim O'Toole, Tommy Davis, Ron Santo, Ralph Garr, Ron Blomberg, Steve Kemp, George Bell, etc., etc.

So my question is this--can you think of "big-time" vets the Sox have acquired over the years who actually panned out for the team and produced numbers matching their career numbers with their former teams for at least two full seasons? Ok, did Al Simmons play for two years or one in Chicago? Pudge, maybe Luzinski--anybody else?

AsInWreck
02-02-2002, 12:06 PM
Actually, if it weren't for George Bell the sox may not have enjoyed the success of '93 - if you'll recall the sox offense in the early 90s was pretty weak w/ the exception of frank and ventura, and robin couldn't handle cleanup/bell drove in 112 runs that year protecting frank

Paulwny
02-02-2002, 12:24 PM
Roy Sievers, Dick Allen, Jim Kaat, Hoyt Wilhelm, Tom Paciorek, Early Wynn

Dadawg_77
02-02-2002, 12:27 PM
What about Julio Franco(sp?) and Tom Seaver, I was in kidergraden then so really can't recall how good he was.

czalgosz
02-02-2002, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
What about Julio Franco(sp?) and Tom Seaver, I was in kidergraden then so really can't recall how good he was.

Seaver was okay, not great - certainly not the Tom Terrific of the '70s.

Tony Phillips did a pretty good job for the Sox.

But there's a lot of guys who did well for a little while, then nothing -

Albert Belle, Julio Cruz, Shawn Abner (he put up good numbers for Shawn Abner)

Spiff
02-02-2002, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Tony Phillips did a pretty good job for the Sox.

Tony Phillips man that guy was crazy. Always arguing, getting in fights. And then there was the drugs. But he did provide a spark at the top of the lineup.

Procol Harum
02-02-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Roy Sievers, Dick Allen, Jim Kaat, Hoyt Wilhelm, Tom Paciorek, Early Wynn

Good memory dredging Paul; the shame being, of course, that some of these pick-ups (Siever, Kaat) were still associated with pretty disappointing results in terms of the overall team's season (from a fan's expectations p.o.v. going into the year).

Procol Harum
02-02-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by AsInWreck
Actually, if it weren't for George Bell the sox may not have enjoyed the success of '93 - if you'll recall the sox offense in the early 90s was pretty weak w/ the exception of frank and ventura, and robin couldn't handle cleanup/bell drove in 112 runs that year protecting frank

Good point--but as w/ old Joey "Albert" Belle, it's hard for us to remember past what a maroon he was....

czalgosz
02-02-2002, 01:05 PM
I guess an offshoot of that theory is guys who the Sox had when they were young, and did well after they were let go. I can think of Goose Gossage, Denny McLain, John Romano, and of course, He Who Can Not Be Named In This Context -

:shammy

You talking about me?

Procol Harum
02-02-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I guess an offshoot of that theory is guys who the Sox had when they were young, and did well after they were let go. I can think of Goose Gossage, Denny McLain, John Romano, and of course, He Who Can Not Be Named In This Context -


Ow! This is perhaps even more depressing...and who can forget such goodies as Earl Battey, Johnny Callison, Norm Cash, Bobby Bonilla, Mike Cameron (Hey, isn't this where this whole CF thing got started?)

RichH55
02-03-2002, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Seaver was okay, not great - certainly not the Tom Terrific of the '70s.

Tony Phillips did a pretty good job for the Sox.

But there's a lot of guys who did well for a little while, then nothing -

Albert Belle, Julio Cruz, Shawn Abner (he put up good numbers for Shawn Abner)


Didnt Albert Belle put up pretty good numbers for the Sox(I think he still holds records here)....he was a good player when he left and when he as in Baltimore til his career took a nosedive due to a degenerative hip............we lost him to FA not the hip though, so I dont see why he is in that "nothing" catergory

czalgosz
02-03-2002, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



Didnt Albert Belle put up pretty good numbers for the Sox(I think he still holds records here)....he was a good player when he left and when he as in Baltimore til his career took a nosedive due to a degenerative hip............we lost him to FA not the hip though, so I dont see why he is in that "nothing" catergory

Belle only had 1 good season with the Sox, which is why I put him in that category. The original point was to find veterans who put in at least two good years with the Sox.

Paulwny
02-03-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum


Good memory dredging Paul; the shame being, of course, that some of these pick-ups (Siever, Kaat) were still associated with pretty disappointing results in terms of the overall team's season (from a fan's expectations p.o.v. going into the year).

Agree but your question dealt with matching career numbers. These players did their part, the rest of the team failed.

CubKilla
02-03-2002, 02:42 PM
I agree with AS IN WRECK that George Bell did give a much needed lift to the '93 White Sox. I thought Rock Raines played admirably for the White Sox..... but will most likely be remembered for colliding with Ozzie Guillen in short left field ending Guillen's season (sorry, but can't recall the year). And some players, while not putting up the kind of numbers they did earlier in their career, brought a much needed spark to struggling White Sox teams. For example, Bo Jackson and his bionic hip in '93. Jose Canseco reigniting casual Sox fan interest in 2001 after the horrible start and injury to Thomas. Jose Valentin was a veteran that was a HUGE part of the White Sox success in 2000, putting up some career-high numbers and becoming a Sox fan favorite with his enthusiasm and clubhouse antics.

It's always easy to remember the busts but the White Sox have had some successes.

rdivaldi
02-03-2002, 02:56 PM
I know that it didn't last long, but Julio Franco was one hell of a pickup for this team in 1994. Check out these numbers:

433 ab
72 runs
138 hits
19 doubles
2 triples
20 home runs
98 rbis
62 walks
.319 BA
.406 OBP
.510 SLG
.916 OPS

Stupid strike! :angry:

czalgosz
02-03-2002, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by CubsF'nBlow
I agree with AS IN WRECK that George Bell did give a much needed lift to the '93 White Sox. I thought Rock Raines played admirably for the White Sox..... but will most likely be remembered for colliding with Ozzie Guillen in short left field ending Guillen's season (sorry, but can't recall the year). And some players, while not putting up the kind of numbers they did earlier in their career, brought a much needed spark to struggling White Sox teams. For example, Bo Jackson and his bionic hip in '93. Jose Canseco reigniting casual Sox fan interest in 2001 after the horrible start and injury to Thomas. Jose Valentin was a veteran that was a HUGE part of the White Sox success in 2000, putting up some career-high numbers and becoming a Sox fan favorite with his enthusiasm and clubhouse antics.

It's always easy to remember the busts but the White Sox have had some successes.

That was '91 that Raines knocked out Guillen. That killed the Sox, IMO, for that season, and let a pretty weak Minnesota team jump out and take the title.

Jackson and Canseco did okay in their brief terms with the Sox, but they were hardly really productive.

You're correct about Valentin, though - he definitely turned things around, both for himself and for the Sox.

doublem23
02-03-2002, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
That was '91 that Raines knocked out Guillen. That killed the Sox, IMO, for that season, and let a pretty weak Minnesota team jump out and take the title.

Since I remembered that, I had to look it up, because I didn't think I remember anything about the Sox before 1993.

But Guillen got knocked out in 1992....

http://www.baseballreference.com/g/guilloz01.shtml

czalgosz
02-03-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Since I remembered that, I had to look it up, because I didn't think I remember anything about the Sox before 1993.

But Guillen got knocked out in 1992....

http://www.baseballreference.com/g/guilloz01.shtml

You're right. Boy do I look stupid.

doublem23
02-03-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


You're right. Boy do I look stupid.

You still got a lot of ground to cover before you start to enter my territory :D: