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View Full Version : Now Grobber takes a swing at the Sox and Sox fans...


DrCrawdad
05-21-2006, 10:16 PM
Les Grobstein (http://www.grobber.com/) following in the path of Jay The Moron.

Guess who's now the most popular Player in places like Anaheim,San Francisco,Minneapolis and other places?? Yup,it's Michael Barrett. No matter if you're a Cub Fan,Sox Fan,or neither,,,the fact is that A.J.Pierzynski is not a well liked player around Baseball,other than in the Sox Clubhouse. The White Sox may never have won the World Series without A.J.,but he was run out of the Twin Cities,the Bay Area(after just 1 year),and everyone knows what they think of him in Orange County,California.Of course on the South Side,,the feelings are understanably different.
AJ "was run out of the Twin Cities?" Trading AJ for Nathan AND Lorino(sp?) is hardly being run out of town.

One disturbing site was after Friday's game in which an obviously drunk guy in his mid to late 20's,wearing White Sox garb, ripped a Cub cap off a kid,likely in his teens,and tossed it in a pile of horse waste left on 35th Street by one of the CPD's finest horses. He then blurted out, "This is what I think of your Cubs!". Classy!
Did Grobber report a single thing about the Cub fan who threw a baseball at the strapping Jock Jones OR the racist taunts screamed at him by the denizens of the Bud Light Bleachers?

Did Grobber report on Mary Mitchell getting racistly taunted by drunken mob outside The Shrine?

One message for Sox Fans,,,you cant have it both ways. Sox Fansare adamant that it was a clean play by Pierzynski on Barrett Saturday----and it was! But...the same Fans have been crying for almost two years that Torii Hunter's play on the Sox Jamie Burke was dirty. Guess what? Those two plays were similar.Either they were both clean,or both dirty. I say both were legit plays. Yes,,Hunter's smack down of Burke was also a clean play(even Ozzie Guillen admitted it then). So quite the whining about Hunter!!
Apples, oranges. Les, if you can't see a difference between Hunter's hit and AJ's then you're sorely in need of new glasses and an open mind.

Hunter's hit was clean but Hunter did go out of his way to hit Burke, who was not in the baseline, but in front of HP.

If you're gonna take a swipe at Sox fans about Hunter's hit then quit bitching yourself about how 9 YEARS AGO Reinsdorf blocked your beloved Cubbie fans from the then new Comiskey.

beckett21
05-21-2006, 10:18 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Bla.

cheeses_h_rice
05-21-2006, 10:21 PM
Surprised that Les is wearing the blue goggles with respect to comparing the Torii/Burke and AJ/Barrett plays. Burke was not in the basepath; Barrett was sitting on top of home plate.

That said, what that Sox fan did to the young Flub fan is disgraceful and completely out of line.

Jerko
05-21-2006, 10:32 PM
I love when the character of a Sox player is questioned by someone who used to cheer for Sammy Sosa.

LuvSox
05-21-2006, 10:34 PM
Another media dumbass trying to make waves.

DrCrawdad
05-21-2006, 10:36 PM
I love when the character of a Sox player is questioned by someone who used to cheer for Sammy Sosa.

Good point. Les "Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil, See No Evil when it comes to the Cubbies" Grobstein could not candidly admit that Sosa was a caught cheat with the corked bat and could never see the obvious in regards to Sammy's use of 'roids.

santo=dorf
05-21-2006, 10:38 PM
Surprised that Les is wearing the blue goggles with respect to comparing the Torii/Burke and AJ/Barrett plays. Burke was not in the basepath; Barrett was sitting on top of home plate.

That said, what that Sox fan did to the young Flub fan is disgraceful and completely out of line.
I'm pretty sure Les' point was more about the City of Chicago not cleaning up after the horses the cops rode in on. Very disturbing.

Trav
05-21-2006, 11:03 PM
I was reading a book where it talked about him being the only reporter in Chicago that cared if the Sox were going to move or not back in 1988. It said that even though he was a cub fan he still wanted the Sox here. I really respect that. It really made me think of him in a positive light. With that said. This here piece of "writing" is pure moronatti ****.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-21-2006, 11:20 PM
The Sox dont get to renew their longtime rivalry with the Brewers,and the Cubs miss the Royals.

What?

What longtime rivalry do the Cubs have with the Royals? Or is Les' hope that the Royals can add 1 or 2 wins to their already weak NL schedule?

The entire interleague schedule is a joke. Teams should play a balanced schedule throughout their league - playing the same teams everyone else does. We need more games against AL East and AL West teams - not this nonsense. A balanced, equal schedule is even more important with another watered down Bud policy - the wild card playoff spot.

Baseball was America's pasttime for over a century without this nonsense. Play a charity exhibition game as the final spring training game of the year (in season exhibition games are not allowed with the exception of the Hall of Fame game since the 1994/95 CBA).

This series and all other interleague games should be cancelled.

Trav
05-21-2006, 11:30 PM
What?

What longtime rivalry do the Cubs have with the Royals? Or is Les' hope that the Royals can add 1 or 2 wins to their already weak NL schedule?

The entire interleague schedule is a joke. Teams should play a balanced schedule throughout their league - playing the same teams everyone else does. We need more games against AL East and AL West teams - not this nonsense. A balanced, equal schedule is even more important with another watered down Bud policy - the wild card playoff spot.

Baseball was America's pasttime for over a century without this nonsense. Play a charity exhibition game as the final spring training game of the year (in season exhibition games are not allowed with the exception of the Hall of Fame game since the 1994/95 CBA).

This series and all other interleague games should be cancelled.

Well this series makes sense for the Owners. These three games would not sell like they do if they were playing the O's. However, it seems to me that AL owners would get upset at not having more chances to play the Yankees and here latley the BoSox because those games generally sell out. It is all about the money and how much the owners can make. I would be shocked if you see any more major improvements on the game that are strickly for the enjoyment of the fans.

RadioheadRocks
05-21-2006, 11:33 PM
Grobber = http://www.mccormick.com/assets/290_6339_dillweed.gif

SouthSide_HitMen
05-21-2006, 11:47 PM
Well this series makes sense for the Owners. These three games would not sell like they do if they were playing the O's. However, it seems to me that AL owners would get upset at not having more chances to play the Yankees and here latley the BoSox because those games generally sell out. It is all about the money and how much the owners can make. I would be shocked if you see any more major improvements on the game that are strickly for the enjoyment of the fans.

I understand the short term motive but you make a mockery of the actual competition of the teams. You play 162 games and two teams are tied or separated by 1 game and the difference comes down to say the Mets playing the Yankees 6 games while the Marlins (when they actually had a ML team) play 6 against Tampa Bay. Or the Cardinals play 6 against the Royals while the Brewers or Astros have to play real teams.

The NHL and NBA seasons are basically a joke - 82 games for playoff seeding.
MLB is (was?) superior because their regular season actually meant something.

Your club needed to beat 9 other teams over 154 / 162 games to win your league and reach the World Series.

After expansion to 24 / 26 teams, divisional play was instituted and at least you had to defeat 5 or 6 teams to move on.

Now, you need to beat 3 or 4 teams to move on and a team hot over the last few weeks is an also ran but is rewarded on the same level as the best teams in the league (the only penalty is one less home game per series (insert yawn graphic)).

And to top it off, the bogus wild card scheme is futher compromised by the fact that the teams competing for that spot (as well as teams fighting for the division) do not play the same schedule.

Trav
05-21-2006, 11:53 PM
I understand the short term motive but you make a mockery of the actual competition of the teams. You play 162 games and two teams are tied or separated by 1 game and the difference comes down to say the Mets playing the Yankees 6 games while the Marlins (when they actually had a ML team) play 6 against Tampa Bay. Or the Cardinals play 6 against the Royals while the Brewers or Astros have to play real teams.

The NHL and NBA seasons are basically a joke - 82 games for playoff seeding.
MLB is (was?) superior because their regular season actually meant something.

Your club needed to beat 9 other teams over 154 / 162 games to win your league and reach the World Series.

After expansion to 24 / 26 teams, divisional play was instituted and at least you had to defeat 5 or 6 teams to move on.

Now, you need to beat 3 or 4 teams to move on and a team hot over the last few weeks is an also ran but is rewarded on the same level as the best teams in the league (the only penalty is one less home game per series (insert yawn graphic)).

And to top it off, the bogus wild card scheme is futher compromised by the fact that the teams competing for that spot (as well as teams fighting for the division) do not play the same schedule.

I agree with everything you say here. I really wish it could go back to pre-bud days but I fear it will only get worse. Honestly, does anyone really think baseball can be saved? If it wasn't for the Sox, I would not watch baseball at all. Maybe college.

voodoochile
05-22-2006, 12:03 AM
Grobber = http://www.mccormick.com/assets/290_6339_dillweed.gif

You hear that Les? Dill... weed... Personally, I've always thought of you more as a turkey leg or even a chicken wing, but the masses have spoken...:wink:

Seriously though, Les, regardless of whether the Hunter incident was clean or not, Barrett is a total tool. So what if people who hate AJ cheered. If AJ's hit was clean then what Barrett did deserves a good tar and feathering. Clean up your own house and then worry about what's going on on the championship side of town.

Oh and I disagree with the other posters. I would love to see interleague play go away, but I am not in favor of a balanced schedule. Spread the Interleague games around amongst the non-division AL teams for the Sox, but continue playing the ALC more than anyone else by a large margin unless you plan on doing away with divisions altogether. Division titles should be decided by head to head play, IMO, not on who can beat up the weaker teams in the other divisions more.

vegyrex
05-22-2006, 12:05 AM
I was reading a book where it talked about him being the only reporter in Chicago that cared if the Sox were going to move or not back in 1988. It said that even though he was a cub fan he still wanted the Sox here. I really respect that. It really made me think of him in a positive light. With that said. This here piece of "writing" is pure moronatti ****.
That was then. I started to dislike Les back in the early 90's. He had a radio show, I forget what station it was on, and he spent most of the time ripping the Sox, and Sox fans even though the Sox were a good solid, WINNING team back then. His cub love was also showing up more as well. After that i stopped listen to him.

Nellie_Fox
05-22-2006, 01:33 AM
I'm very disappointed that Les thinks the Hunter incident (Hunter goes out of his way to level Burke who left plenty of plate open, plus goes forearm to head) is equivalent to yesterday's (Barrett completely blocking the plate, AJ goes shoulder to shoulder.)

Voodoo, I'm with you. Do away with interleague, get a few more games with other American League teams, but keep the emphasis on the divisions.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-22-2006, 03:19 AM
Voodoo, I'm with you. Do away with interleague, get a few more games with other American League teams, but keep the emphasis on the divisions.

I have no problem with more divisional games vs. games outside of your division though the Wild Card defeats the fairness of it all.

If I was commissioner I would have the current divisional emphasis with no wild card or interleague (and would have only two divisions) but then again who really cares about the actual game itself these days.

Contract two teams, add two players to each roster (27 man roster) so the union is happy (and post greenie ballclubs are easier to field) and have four 7 team divisions.

The season will mean something, the division title will mean more than 1 extra home game and we will once again have division races that mean something (i.e. Boston vs. New York at the end of last season playing for one playoff birth - not for a higher seed).

santo=dorf
05-22-2006, 05:32 AM
I have no problem with more divisional games vs. games outside of your division though the Wild Card defeats the fairness of it all.

If I was commissioner I would have the current divisional emphasis with no wild card or interleague (and would have only two divisions) but then again who really cares about the actual game itself these days.

Contract two teams, add two players to each roster (27 man roster) so the union is happy (and post greenie ballclubs are easier to field) and have four 7 team divisions.

The season will mean something, the division title will mean more than 1 extra home game and we will once again have division races that mean something (i.e. Boston vs. New York at the end of last season playing for one playoff birth - not for a higher seed).
IMO, the division title means less with only two divisions because there have been too many teams that had a better record than the division winner, but did not go to the playofss.

Asking for a balanced schedule is the MLB is also a talltask because the season is so long. Teams in April are not the same as teams in September.

C-Dawg
05-22-2006, 06:34 AM
So AJ was run out of Minnesota? Maybe management was eager to be rid of him, but the fans certainly didn't get the memo. They thought highly enough of him to break out their Pierzynski jerseys for the 2005 home opener against the champs-to-be White Sox. (EDIT - I made the pic smaller but can't figure out how to change it using the edit button - sorry its so big)

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/8738/ajp3ng.jpg

McCuddy
05-22-2006, 07:22 AM
Are we talking about the same Grobstein who got fired by the Score for selling press passes?

DrCrawdad
05-22-2006, 07:39 AM
Here's another thing, the Cubs, their broadcasters, their lapdogs (Les, that includes you) and their fans love to lecture Sox fans about right & wrong, unwritten rules, etc. So it is so interesting that they are celebrating Barrett's sucker punch as though it were some heroic act. It was uncalled for and the act of a punk.

Comparing the AJ/Barrett matter to the Hunter/Burke colision reveals the depth of your bias Les and jealousy of the World Champion White Sox.

And if anyone complains about Barrett's punky act being called a "sucker punch" let them know that that is the very definition of a sucker punch. A sucker punch is a punch when the other person is not expecting it.

harwar
05-22-2006, 08:02 AM
The entire interleague schedule is a joke. Teams should play a balanced schedule throughout their league - playing the same teams everyone else does. We need more games against AL East and AL West teams - not this nonsense. A balanced, equal schedule is even more important with another watered down Bud policy - the wild card playoff spot.

Baseball was America's pasttime for over a century without this nonsense. Play a charity exhibition game as the final spring training game of the year (in season exhibition games are not allowed with the exception of the Hall of Fame game since the 1994/95 CBA).
This series and all other interleague games should be cancelled.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
I miss playing all the American League teams the same amount of times.Baseball was more BALANCED that way.
Not only is baseball not going to go back to the way it was meant to be played it is only going to get worse.Its only a matter of time before they implement the latest "fix" by the puppet masters who control the game.
That being a total restructuring of both leagues with emphisis on locality and rivalry,i.e.the White Sox and cubs in the same division and playing each other a ridiculous amount of times.
I'm sure it will be very polpular among the masses and it will end my long love of the game as they will finally have driven me off for good.

1951Campbell
05-22-2006, 08:22 AM
Here's another thing, the Cubs, their broadcasters, their lapdogs (Les, that includes you) and their fans love to lecture Sox fans about right & wrong, unwritten rules, etc. So it is so interesting that they are celebrating Barrett's sucker punch as though it were some heroic act. It was uncalled for and the act of a punk.


Clearly deke-ing someone is a Violation of All That Is Good and Holy, and a sucker punch is An Affirmation of All That Is Great About America's Pasttime! Get with the program, Crawdad!

dickallen15
05-22-2006, 08:39 AM
I am actually quite shocked at Grobber right now. He usually is far more fair, and usually does his homework. First off AJ was not "run out" of Minnesota. He was traded for a couple of pretty good pitchers, mainly because the Twins had a young catcher named Mauer they had to make room for, and AJ's salary was about to spike. Obviously in SF things didn't go so well with him, but weren't so bad as one of his teammates there, Dustin Hermanson, gave KW a glowing endorsement of him. Who cares what the Angels or their fans think of him. Its not his fault the umpire fell for his running to first base. Secondly, the Hunter and AJ plays were completely different. When Hunter crashed into Burke, Burke was not blocking the plate. Hunter actually took a longer route to knock Burke down. Pierzynski, because Barrett was blocking the plate, would have had to take a longer route to the plate to avoid him. If Barrett doesn't want to get knocked down, he should get his ass out of the baseline. AJ is the one person in the ballpark that has no idea where the ball is on that play since it was coming in from LF directly behind him, and if Murton even had a little league arm, the play was going to be close. I'm very dissappointed in you Grobber.

grizzbr
05-22-2006, 09:10 AM
Living here in the Twin Cities I can tell you first-hand that these Twins fans wish like heck that AJ was back here. They were rooting for him last year during the Series and blasting Pohlad for trading him to SF. The Twins don't have any players on their team that have the ability to pump the club up like AJ does for the "good guys"

If Grobstein is gonna make this statement he should at leasti nterview the fans up here as to how much they miss AJ. I believe that is called responsible reporting!

Irishsox1
05-22-2006, 09:38 AM
A Sox fan threw a Cub hit in some horse crap!! Two weeks ago after the Cubs vs. Padres game I saw a drunken Cub fan hit a police horse in the face! Why didn't Grobber report that!

spiffie
05-22-2006, 10:21 AM
I understand the short term motive but you make a mockery of the actual competition of the teams. You play 162 games and two teams are tied or separated by 1 game and the difference comes down to say the Mets playing the Yankees 6 games while the Marlins (when they actually had a ML team) play 6 against Tampa Bay. Or the Cardinals play 6 against the Royals while the Brewers or Astros have to play real teams.

The NHL and NBA seasons are basically a joke - 82 games for playoff seeding.
MLB is (was?) superior because their regular season actually meant something.

Your club needed to beat 9 other teams over 154 / 162 games to win your league and reach the World Series.

After expansion to 24 / 26 teams, divisional play was instituted and at least you had to defeat 5 or 6 teams to move on.

Now, you need to beat 3 or 4 teams to move on and a team hot over the last few weeks is an also ran but is rewarded on the same level as the best teams in the league (the only penalty is one less home game per series (insert yawn graphic)).

And to top it off, the bogus wild card scheme is futher compromised by the fact that the teams competing for that spot (as well as teams fighting for the division) do not play the same schedule.

Of course, even divisional play still rewards teams lucky enough to be in weak divisions. Is it fair that someone from the NL West makes the playoffs while a better team in a stronger division doesn't?

I say if you want fairness you scrap the AL/NL structure entirely. Drop two teams would be the best solution, but if the Union doesn't allow that to happen then add 3 franchises. You play every other team either 6 times in a 28-team league, or 5 times in a 33-team league (this would necessitate moving to a 160 game season). Top 8 records go to the playoffs in a 1 through 8 seeding. To make the fight for the top 4 records really mean something the top 4 teams get 5 of the seven games at home, this way just securing a playoff spot won't be enough of an incentive. In this setup no team ever gets an advantage due to the number of games they play someone. Obviously some teams will be lucky and catch teams at bad times due to injuries or suspensions, but there's only so much you can do. Every game counts when you have to fend off every other team, and no one sneaks in due to a weaker division or weaker conference. The best 8 teams play in the playoffs, and the best 4 teams have an advantage that they earned over 160/162 games.

Rocky Soprano
05-22-2006, 10:37 AM
You hear that Les? Dill... weed... Personally, I've always thought of you more as a turkey leg or even a chicken wing, but the masses have spoken...:wink:


I've always thought of him as simply a:

DUMB ASS

Blob
05-22-2006, 10:44 AM
Slobber33 is my favortie poster at WSI!!!

Palehose13
05-22-2006, 10:49 AM
Wow. I am a bit shocked by this. Grobber is usually pretty fair for a cub fan.

Comparing the Hunter/Burke collision with the Pierzynski/Barrett collision is like comparing Martin/McMahon to Taylor/Theisman.

Hangar18
05-22-2006, 10:50 AM
You know what? Like AJ, im sick of all this. 1/2 of the Chicago Media defending the incident. Only a small percentage of flub fans also realize what a bush league play this was. Barrett should be Lambasted even more. Whats troubling is, just how stupid that other fanbase is. Some of them have no CONCEPT of the Runner/Baseline rule. Barrett has been frustrated for some time, and doesnt like players stealing on him (Roberts).
Hes the typical Big-Dumb-Jock, and like some of the players on that team, a very dumb person. You wouldnt see someone like Maddux doing that. That team further embarrasses me, and Im not even a fan of theirs.

Its time that media stops glorifying that fanbase/team.

Uncle_Patrick
05-22-2006, 10:59 AM
Is anyone else struck by the irony that the fan base that defines itself as the "classiest" (yes, I know that's a total joke) and bitched and moaned last year about Uribe deeking out Lee as "classless" would applaud an action which is the definition of "classless"?

jdm2662
05-22-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm a bit dissapointed in Les as well, not so much on his opinion of the Hunter-Burke incident. It's his opinion and he's never short of them. It's more of his claim that the Twins ran AJ out of town without mentioning the fact they had Mauer ready, and they got two good pitchers in return. I have family in Minnesota, and most fans up there, as already mentioned, want AJ back. SF is another story, but once again, someone already mentioned Hermanson spoke highly of him. I don't even remember ever disliking AJ when he was with the Twins. Now, Dougie M, that's a different story...

skobabe8
05-22-2006, 11:52 AM
Living here in the Twin Cities I can tell you first-hand that these Twins fans wish like heck that AJ was back here. They were rooting for him last year during the Series and blasting Pohlad for trading him to SF. The Twins don't have any players on their team that have the ability to pump the club up like AJ does for the "good guys"

If Grobstein is gonna make this statement he should at leasti nterview the fans up here as to how much they miss AJ. I believe that is called responsible reporting!

IN CHICAGO?!?! :rolling:

Lip Man 1
05-22-2006, 12:30 PM
McCuddy:

From Les' interview with WSI:

"During the 2001 All Star Game I’m supposed to go out to Seattle... cover the game and talk to the Chicago representatives, Maggs Ordonez, Sammy Sosa and Jon Leiber. Then I’m supposed to go to our affiliate and do my show. Well I was told to get credentials for two people in case the station decided to send along another reporter. I asked our acting Program Director Jeff Schwartz who's name should go on the 2nd one. He said put whom ever I thought deserved to go.I had someone in mind but didn't tell that reporter because this was someone with a big temper who is immature, so I didn't tell that person in case they decided not to send a 2nd one.It turned out I was the only one sent."

"So I go to the game and realize when I get there that with baseball honoring Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn and with Fox Sports being allowed additional commercial minutes there is no way I can do post game interviews and get out to the station to do my show. It was probably a forty, forty five minute drive. So I contact a person who helped us in the past and asked if she wanted to do the post game interviews. She said sure so I gave her that 2nd credential. I went to the credential pickup window at Safeco Field and told the woman there I needed to change the name on the pass. They said that since the pass was still being used on behalf of the station, no change was needed, and rememeber, this was before 9/11 so there were no photos on baseball credentials like there are now. I saw the game and went to do my show. She brought me the interview tape and since I couldn’t go, I asked if she wanted to go to the party afterwards, to have a drink, take her husband and have a nice time."

"She goes to the party and the credential was in the pocket of a jacket that she accidentally left there. A person found it, saw that it was my credential and sent it back to the other reporter back in Chicago. That person went nuts, never bothered to ask me what was up or anything like that--just went to Wells and screamed."

"On July 25, 2001 I have a meeting with Wells and he tells me that I’m being suspended with pay while he conducts an investigation because I may have broken rules concerning giving this press credential away. I explained what happened and he said he’d look into it. A short time later he wants to see me so I go into his office and he tells me that I’m fired. This was a set up all along, he was looking for an excuse to get rid of me. My contract expired in three days so I knew what this was all about. I told him ‘look let’s just part company as gentleman’ he said no... he was going to go to the newspapers with this and I said fine. After he told the papers, one of the reporters printed my e-mail address and I got fourteen hundred e-mails. Only one was from a guy who said ‘you suck, you got what you deserve.’"

"The day after I was let go by the Score, Mitch Rosen called me up and had me in his office the same day. We talked about several things. I also met with John Cravens of The Sporting News Radio network the day after that. Both made great offers, but the one from WCSN was full time so I went there in April 2002 and stayed until October when Cravens resigned and The Sporting News dropped the local stuff I was doing. I let Mitch know about it and he had me and Tommy Williams on ESPN Radio 1000 in less then two weeks."

Lip

gobears1987
05-22-2006, 02:20 PM
Grobber is a douchebag. How long until PHG does the right thing and bans this SOB. He's a :dtroll:

PaulDrake
05-22-2006, 02:49 PM
Wow. I am a bit shocked by this. Grobber is usually pretty fair for a cub fan.

Comparing the Hunter/Burke collision with the Pierzynski/Barrett collision is like comparing Martin/McMahon to Taylor/Theisman. A very good analogy. Sorry I didn't think of it myself.

voodoochile
05-22-2006, 03:20 PM
Grobber is a douchebag. How long until PHG does the right thing and bans this SOB. He's a :dtroll:

Never. Grobber is a good friend to WSI. He gives us shoutouts and has been involved in several projects with the site.

Say what you want about his allegiances, but you cannot question the kind of person he is or how he has helped WSI through the years. He's a good friend to have in the media and his coming here to post and talk and answer questions makes the site a cooler place to hang out. That kind of publicity and authentication from main stream media members is part of why WSI is one of the best baseball sites on the Internet.

DrCrawdad
05-22-2006, 03:34 PM
Never. Grobber is a good friend to WSI. He gives us shoutouts and has been involved in several projects with the site.

Say what you want about his allegiances, but you cannot question the kind of person he is or how he has helped WSI through the years. He's a good friend to have in the media and his coming here to post and talk and answer questions makes the site a cooler place to hang out. That kind of publicity and authentication from main stream media members is part of why WSI is one of the best baseball sites on the Internet.

I agree.

I've had friendly conversations with Grobber over the years. However, I still feel though that he needed to be called on for his comments.

I like Grobber, but he's off his rocker on this Sox stuff, completely.

white sox bill
05-22-2006, 03:37 PM
Never. Grobber is a good friend to WSI. He gives us shoutouts and has been involved in several projects with the site.

Say what you want about his allegiances, but you cannot question the kind of person he is or how he has helped WSI through the years. He's a good friend to have in the media and his coming here to post and talk and answer questions makes the site a cooler place to hang out. That kind of publicity and authentication from main stream media members is part of why WSI is one of the best baseball sites on the Internet.

Well said, Les has personally reponded every time I've sent him emails or PM's. True, he's a north sider (boo!) but that really doesn't matter. Les is entitled to his opinoins as we are.

jdm2662
05-22-2006, 03:42 PM
Every time I send him an email, he responds. If it's info that few people would know or I need something cleared up, I ask him. He knows just about anything about Chicago sports. Sure, he has opinions, and I don't always agree with him, but so does everyone. He was the only guy I ever listened to on a regular basis.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-22-2006, 03:44 PM
Of course, even divisional play still rewards teams lucky enough to be in weak divisions. Is it fair that someone from the NL West makes the playoffs while a better team in a stronger division doesn't?

I say if you want fairness you scrap the AL/NL structure entirely. Drop two teams would be the best solution, but if the Union doesn't allow that to happen then add 3 franchises. You play every other team either 6 times in a 28-team league, or 5 times in a 33-team league (this would necessitate moving to a 160 game season). Top 8 records go to the playoffs in a 1 through 8 seeding. To make the fight for the top 4 records really mean something the top 4 teams get 5 of the seven games at home, this way just securing a playoff spot won't be enough of an incentive. In this setup no team ever gets an advantage due to the number of games they play someone. Obviously some teams will be lucky and catch teams at bad times due to injuries or suspensions, but there's only so much you can do. Every game counts when you have to fend off every other team, and no one sneaks in due to a weaker division or weaker conference. The best 8 teams play in the playoffs, and the best 4 teams have an advantage that they earned over 160/162 games.

Any attempt to "NBA" basesball will just about lose me as a fan. Bettman already ruined hockey by scraping the divisional playoffs (and historical division / conference names). The NBA is a complete disaster and their playoff situation is the most pathetic of all the sports today.

There should be one interleague series a season held in late October - a best of seven with the team having the best record getting home field (still don't understand why this alternates).

Two 7 team divisions in each league.

Play your division opponents 15 games each (90 games) and play the other division 10 games each (with two series going 11 games for the season) resulting in 70 + the extra 2 or 72 games. The extra home series for division / non division opponents alternates each season.

AL East = NY Yankees, Boston, Baltimore, Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee (returns from the NL).

AL West = Chicago, Minnesota, Kansas City, Texas, Oakland, Anaheim, Seattle.

NL East = NY Mets, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Chicago.

NL West = Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Arizona, Colorado, Houston, St. Louis.

Fold - Tampa and Florida.

The Cubs and Cardinals will have to deal with being in opposite divisions (unlike the jackass scenario in the past having Cincinnati and Atlanta in the East and the Scrubs and Cards in the West).

Milwaukee will not only get the Minnesota series back but also good White Sox crowds so they shouldn't be bitching either.

spiffie
05-22-2006, 03:47 PM
Any attempt to "NBA" basesball will just about lose me as a fan. Bettman already ruined hockey by scraping the divisional playoffs (and historical division / conference names). The NBA is a complete disaster and their playoff situation is the most pathetic of all the sports today.

There should be one interleague series a season held in late October - a best of seven with the team having the best record getting home field (still don't understand why this alternates).

Two 7 team divisions in each league.

Play your division opponents 15 games each (90 games) and play the other division 10 games each (with two series going 11 games for the season) resulting in 70 + the extra 2 or 72 games. The extra home series for division / non division opponents alternates each season.

AL East = NY Yankees, Boston, Baltimore, Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee (returns from the NL).

AL West = Chicago, Minnesota, Kansas City, Texas, Oakland, Anaheim, Seattle.

NL East = NY Mets, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Chicago.

NL West = Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Arizona, Colorado, Houston, St. Louis.

Fold - Tampa and Florida.

The Cubs and Cardinals will have to deal with being in opposite divisions (unlike the jackass scenario in the past having Cincinnati and Atlanta in the East and the Scrubs and Cards in the West).

Milwaukee will not only get the Minnesota series back but also good White Sox crowds so they shouldn't be bitching either.
What exactly is so important about the old 2 division structure that you are so attached to it? I ask this with all honesty, since you say that any more change would "Lose you as a fan" and this is the model you keep pointing to. Why not the old NL/AL models, or a leagueless model? What in your opinion makes a 2 league/4 division model the best possible choice?

SouthSide_HitMen
05-22-2006, 03:47 PM
I'm a bit dissapointed in Les as well, not so much on his opinion of the Hunter-Burke incident. It's his opinion and he's never short of them. It's more of his claim that the Twins ran AJ out of town without mentioning the fact they had Mauer ready, and they got two good pitchers in return. I have family in Minnesota, and most fans up there, as already mentioned, want AJ back. SF is another story, but once again, someone already mentioned Hermanson spoke highly of him. I don't even remember ever disliking AJ when he was with the Twins. Now, Dougie M, that's a different story...

Only the ****ing cubs would think trading a very good catcher for two All Star Pitchers is a dumb move. That is why they let the Garland's and Willis' go.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-22-2006, 04:03 PM
What exactly is so important about the old 2 division structure that you are so attached to it? I ask this with all honesty, since you say that any more change would "Lose you as a fan" and this is the model you keep pointing to. Why not the old NL/AL models, or a leagueless model? What in your opinion makes a 2 league/4 division model the best possible choice?

I don't like interleague period. That is one of the reasons stood out among all the sports. The rest of the champions are just a hodge podge of teams. There are no league identities. In baseball you have two leagues go at it all season long and the best team from each meets to determine the winner. These teams (until interleague) never played before. It worked for close to 100 years.

I think the 7 team divisions is the most watered down format I like - put it that way. I think beating 3 teams (2 if you are the AL West Wild Card) is not a playoff worthy accomplishment. The White Sox had the best record in baseball but team in the NL West were also rans and deserve no playoffs.

I like the two divisions because you have two teams that won something advance. You may have a 2nd place team in the other division with a better record but they should have taken care of business in their division. With the 90 vs. 72 game division / non division schedule, that team had its chance to prove itself and finish in first if it was the best.

The original two league 8 team format was perfect. After expansion, I think two divisions were reasonable as 6 or 7 team divisions were more reasonable than a 14 team league (though it works for us who love the English Premier League).

My plan would never fly because the owners would never give up the 15 - 20 wild card playoff games (and related TV money). We will only see even more erosion of the season with additional teams added which will lead to basically a 162 game exhibition season - just like the NHL and NBA which would cause me to drop off interest in April - September as the games are basically for seeding purposes only and then maybe I'll watch the playoffs.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-22-2006, 04:13 PM
Never. Grobber is a good friend to WSI. He gives us shoutouts and has been involved in several projects with the site.

Say what you want about his allegiances, but you cannot question the kind of person he is or how he has helped WSI through the years. He's a good friend to have in the media and his coming here to post and talk and answer questions makes the site a cooler place to hang out. That kind of publicity and authentication from main stream media members is part of why WSI is one of the best baseball sites on the Internet.

I agree. I don't agree with his post game comments regarding this situation but I think he is a good sport journalist - something rare in our city - and I like getting his perspective on things. I'll call him out when he is biased (like that Royals comment) but the things he posts here are respectful of White Sox fans and the team for the most part.

And thanks Lip for pointing out the truth (or at least Les' side which I find credible).

I don't know Les personally - I'm just saying some of the criticism is over the top. He isn't the Windsock. He isn't Machine Gunner Joe. He is a cubs fan but that just means he has a lack of taste - not knowledge or valid points.

I do agree with the criticism of a few of his points regarding the incident - points BTW not posted by him here but rather on his personal site.

Daver
05-22-2006, 04:19 PM
Grobber is a douchebag. How long until PHG does the right thing and bans this SOB. He's a :dtroll:


I will have to get banned before Les gets banned.

You can have a week off for calling anyone here a douchebag.

Grobber33
05-22-2006, 04:44 PM
My MY My....The World Champs play one lousy game(2 errors and a blown DP in which you cant charge an error due to stupid scoring rules)against one of the worst teams(at least right now with Lee out)around and everyone gets bent out of shape---OK ALMOST everyone. Heck,they lost two of three earlier to the Royals--that's even worse. Oh yeah,,you all hate the Cubs the most--I understand!
First up,,some of you sound like you are in 'Delta House'. You know,,'They cant do that to our pledges,,,only WE can do that to our pledges!'.
All I will say about the Hunter hit on Jamie Burke is that one Ozzie Guillen called it a clean play and said if one of his players did it,he would hi-five him. One of the reasons he wanted C.Lee out of here is because he wouldn't 'give it back' I think on a play at 2B. That said,,,I plan to post some of the emails I got on this Wednesday on my own site. I agree with Dr.Crawdad that he & I are buddies. And cant Friends disagree?? Heck we almost always do!! So what. He started quite a thread here.
As for the Kid having his Cub cap ripped off and tossed in the pile of,,,,,well you know,,,on 35th Street,,,I reported it because I SAW it. The drunk that did it even tapped me on the shoulder and bragged 'hey,look what I did!' .
Let me however remind you that in 2001 after a Cubs-Sox game at Comiskey(the one that Tony G forgot he had no force out at third,and thus it kept a Cub 10th inning going,,they scored and won the game)I witnessed a Fan from WRIGLEYVILLE being arrested and taken into the detention area of the Ballpark to be booked for stealing a wheelchair--which was obviously pretty low. Sox security invited me in and knew I had a show that day(it was a Saturday)on the Score and wanted me to really bust that guy on the air. I got that person's name and a statement from CPD. It was ridiculous what he did and I hammered him on Radio. I only mention things I SEE or if Security or the Police bring it to my attention.No 2nd or 3rd hand stuff here.
The William League(I dont care if I mis-spelled that creep's name) incident likely got half the mention from me than what happened in Wrigley during 1999 when Fans tossed crap on the field,and a moron hurled a whiskey bottle that nearly hit(and could have killed)Neifi Perez--then with the Rockies. If Cub Fans act like jerks,,I wont let it go---but....if Sox Fans do the same,,,they are going to get it also,,,,same with Blackhawk,Bulls or Bear Fans.
Lastly,Barrett should get 10 games IMO with Anderson 1 or 2(he did take a swing and they will likely get him on that). Pierzynski and Mabry should get no more than a fine--maybe A.J. will walk away scott free.
Les

Lip Man 1
05-22-2006, 05:05 PM
Les has always treated me well when I asked for an interview or when we have exchanged e-mails. I may disagree with some of the things he says but as far as I'm concerned he's welcome anytime at WSI.

Les probably has done more to promote WSI then any other 'mainstream' media person that I know of. The only ones who come close are Phil Rogers, Fred Mitchell, George Knue (who has mentioned WSI on the blog site) and Steve Dahl.

Lip

andytheclown
05-22-2006, 05:20 PM
I believe you are forgetting Dave Wills.

I would have to say his promotion of this site on the pre/post game was better publicity than the others.


Les, you failed to comment on your statement:

A.J.,but he was run out of the Twin Cities,

Herbal
05-22-2006, 08:17 PM
I don't see a comparison between the response Ozzie wanted out of C Lee and what Barrett did. Ozzie wanted C Lee to slide hard into 2nd (clean/hard play) as opposed to sucker punching someone.

Remember, Ozzie was the manager when that tool Paniagua threw at someone's head, and he and KW had him shipped out before he had a chance to shower.

Play hard, play though, but play clean.

BarbG
05-22-2006, 09:09 PM
...maybe A.J. will walk away scott free.
Les

A.J. SHOULD walk away scot free. He should be fined for being sucker punched? Or simply for scoring a run against the Cubs?

Hunter/Burke = A.J./Barrett? In what universe? Burke didn't get up and sucker punch Hunter in the face. In 35+ years of watching this sport I can count on one hand the instances of displays of immaturity and jealousy on the level of Mr. Barrett's this weekend.

I've also been unable to find any EVIDENCE of A.J. being "run out of" Minnesota.

Tragg
05-22-2006, 11:04 PM
AJ wasn't run out of Minny...he was traded for 2 highly regarded pitching prospects, one of which I think is the Twins' ace closer.

He was ditched by SF. I can see where AJ would be a pain in the.... on a losing team, especially if he thinks the players aren't giving full effort.

I hope the news media writes a nice contrast between the behavior of Sox fans on Frank's returns and the behavior of Indians fans on Thome's return.

Burke didn't sucker punch Hunter. Big difference. Speaking of Burke, totally off topic, but I think he had the ex Sox catchers disease a couple of weeks ago....through a ball away thinking he had a K and the runner got on 1st.

FielderJones
05-22-2006, 11:33 PM
The original two league 8 team format was perfect. After expansion, I think two divisions were reasonable as 6 or 7 team divisions were more reasonable than a 14 team league (though it works for us who love the English Premier League).

Wouldn't it be sweet to see the Cubs get relegated?!

Nellie_Fox
05-23-2006, 01:31 AM
I'm just disappointed in Grobber's read on this situation. I don't want him banned from WSI. He is too damned informative.

Mickster
05-23-2006, 09:25 AM
Grobber,

Two quick points:

1. I could not find comments on your website regarding the Jacque Jones incident last week that some at WSI refer to as "Trixi Gate".

The William League(I dont care if I mis-spelled that creep's name) incident likely got half the mention from me than what happened in Wrigley during 1999 when Fans tossed crap on the field,and a moron hurled a whiskey bottle that nearly hit(and could have killed)Neifi Perez--then with the Rockies. If Cub Fans act like jerks,,I wont let it go---but....if Sox Fans do the same,,,they are going to get it also,,,,same with Blackhawk,Bulls or Bear Fans.

2. You never elaborated on your statement that AJ was "...run out of the Twin Cities..."

dickallen15
05-23-2006, 09:43 AM
Why aren't Barrett's quotes from the Score of perhaps starting a fight before the series ever began not getting more play? The more I think of this, the more I see, the longer this goes on, it appears to me Barrett, "the God-fearing" catcher, as a certain idiot hack columnist would refer to him as, was just looking for a reason to clock someone. Its too bad baseball's discipline system is such a joke. Today he was saying he had to talk to Dusty about what he'd do when and if he got suspended, if he would take it right away, or delay it, which is easy, just appeal and drop the appeal when you want to begin serving, or appeal it. I know it has everything to do with the union, but players in fights should be suspended immediately, and if they want to appeal, with modern technology and telephones the world has the capability of an immediate appeal, like 5 minutes after the suspension is handed down.

miker
05-23-2006, 10:38 AM
I am actually quite shocked at Grobber right now. He usually is far more fair, and usually does his homework.
Once you drink the blue kool-aid, there's no such thing as objectivity.

Grobber, enjoy your team's legacy of failure.

Palehose13
05-23-2006, 10:53 AM
Grobber-

Ozzie may think that the Hunter/Burke play was clean, but most Sox fans that I know don't think so...and yes, we can disagree with our manager.

IMO, there are 3 fundamental differences between the plays:

1. Barrett was hunkered down in the baseline. Burke was not. Burke was standing a few feet in front of home plate. Hunter had to go out of his way to hit Burke. Barrett was in AJ's way.

2. Barrett was reciving a throw from LF, so he was able to see the action (AJ) in fornt of him, so the hit should not have been a shock. Burke was looking to RF and not really expecting a throw, so the hit from Hunter was a shock.

3. Barrett punched Pierzynski...and it wasn't even right away. It was after he said a few words. Burke didn't punch anyone.

I just can't see how anyone can place any blame on AJ for this. I can't beleive the cub fans about this. They love when guys like Zambrano and Barrett show "emotion" and "fire", but Pierzynski is an "instigator". Sorry Les, you can't have it both ways either.

McCuddy
05-23-2006, 11:15 AM
McCuddy:

From Les' interview with WSI:

"During the 2001 All Star Game I’m supposed to go out to Seattle... cover the game and talk to the Chicago representatives, Maggs Ordonez, Sammy Sosa and Jon Leiber. Then I’m supposed to go to our affiliate and do my show. Well I was told to get credentials for two people in case the station decided to send along another reporter. I asked our acting Program Director Jeff Schwartz who's name should go on the 2nd one. He said put whom ever I thought deserved to go.I had someone in mind but didn't tell that reporter because this was someone with a big temper who is immature, so I didn't tell that person in case they decided not to send a 2nd one.It turned out I was the only one sent."

"So I go to the game and realize when I get there that with baseball honoring Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn and with Fox Sports being allowed additional commercial minutes there is no way I can do post game interviews and get out to the station to do my show. It was probably a forty, forty five minute drive. So I contact a person who helped us in the past and asked if she wanted to do the post game interviews. She said sure so I gave her that 2nd credential. I went to the credential pickup window at Safeco Field and told the woman there I needed to change the name on the pass. They said that since the pass was still being used on behalf of the station, no change was needed, and rememeber, this was before 9/11 so there were no photos on baseball credentials like there are now. I saw the game and went to do my show. She brought me the interview tape and since I couldn’t go, I asked if she wanted to go to the party afterwards, to have a drink, take her husband and have a nice time."

"She goes to the party and the credential was in the pocket of a jacket that she accidentally left there. A person found it, saw that it was my credential and sent it back to the other reporter back in Chicago. That person went nuts, never bothered to ask me what was up or anything like that--just went to Wells and screamed."

"On July 25, 2001 I have a meeting with Wells and he tells me that I’m being suspended with pay while he conducts an investigation because I may have broken rules concerning giving this press credential away. I explained what happened and he said he’d look into it. A short time later he wants to see me so I go into his office and he tells me that I’m fired. This was a set up all along, he was looking for an excuse to get rid of me. My contract expired in three days so I knew what this was all about. I told him ‘look let’s just part company as gentleman’ he said no... he was going to go to the newspapers with this and I said fine. After he told the papers, one of the reporters printed my e-mail address and I got fourteen hundred e-mails. Only one was from a guy who said ‘you suck, you got what you deserve.’"

"The day after I was let go by the Score, Mitch Rosen called me up and had me in his office the same day. We talked about several things. I also met with John Cravens of The Sporting News Radio network the day after that. Both made great offers, but the one from WCSN was full time so I went there in April 2002 and stayed until October when Cravens resigned and The Sporting News dropped the local stuff I was doing. I let Mitch know about it and he had me and Tommy Williams on ESPN Radio 1000 in less then two weeks."

Lip

Lip -

Thanks for clearing that up for me! It does sound like a pretty raw deal. Knowing some of the principals involved, I'm not entirely surprised.

Jerko
05-23-2006, 11:16 AM
Another thing Les (who I like by the way) can't have both ways is calling Sox fans out for "being upset over one lousy game", while Cub fans celebrate winning the SAME GAME like it's New Year's Eve and avoiding the sweep. I know the Cubs are bad but they're not 0-31. Act like you've won a game before. :rolleyes:

dickallen15
05-23-2006, 05:40 PM
Once you drink the blue kool-aid, there's no such thing as objectivity.

Grobber, enjoy your team's legacy of failure.

Grobber is a Cubs encyclopedia, he has a photographic memory of just about every Cub game ever played. I guarantee he is the one person who could Stump the Schwab on espn especially if it is Cub related. He really is pretty fair when it comes to Sox vs. Cubs, although this time I don't think he was. There's a reason he's been around as long as he has. He knows his stuff. Even Einstein was wrong once in a while.