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View Full Version : *Official* Let Us Never Speak Of This Game Again 5/21/06 Postgame Thread


BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 03:46 PM
See Juan hit! See Juan field!

Eh, who cares? As frustrating as this game was, taking 2 out of 3 in this series is always worthwhile. Now, on to crushing another curse against OAK.

JUribe1989
05-21-2006, 03:47 PM
2 out of 3 from the Flubbies and they are still in 5th place!

sox_fan_forever
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
True...I'll take a series win anytime. I think most people just feel frustrated because it looked like the Sox had this game in control until the 8th inning.

rpac44
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
lets hope the guys stay upbeat and show up against the a's the next few days, i'm sure they will

oeo
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
See Juan hit! See Juan field!

Eh, who cares? As frustrating as this game was, taking 2 out of 3 in this series is always worthwhile. Now, on to crushing another curse against OAK.

Because they gift-wrapped it and gave it to the Flubs after a stellar game by Jose. These are the losses that make me angry. :angry:

Jjav829
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
Good to see Jose back and pitching well.

IlliniSox4Life
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
would've been nice for a streak to go into CotC, but I can live with 2/3

JUribe1989
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
lets hope the guys stay upbeat and show up against the a's the next few days, i'm sure they will

Nothing to really be upset about, we won the series.

sox_fan_forever
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
Good to see Jose back and pitching well.

Agreed.

mrs. hendu
05-21-2006, 03:48 PM
Back to 2nd place. :whiner:

Dan Mega
05-21-2006, 03:49 PM
Can't win them all. Sox are in 2nd after the Tigers won. Go get Oakland.

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 03:49 PM
We'll never hear the end of it with those assclowns claiming they knocked us out of first place.

Again, no reason for dark cloudedness here. But, boy, am I really pissed that we had the sweep of our crosstown rival in the grasp of our hands until our defense gift wrapped it away.

ndu3t4
05-21-2006, 03:49 PM
I'm not as mad about losing to the cubs as I am about going back to second place.:angry: :angry:

MadetoOrta
05-21-2006, 03:49 PM
I don't care that we lost to the cubs. It's how we lost and Detroit continuing to roll that has me concerned. Let's go get Oak

peeonwrigley
05-21-2006, 03:49 PM
This is an "other 40 loss" and I get pretty steamed when the team pisses games like this away. The offense built up a 2 run lead off of a tough opposing pitcher, and the 'pen/defense blew it.

Doesn't help when its against the Cubs.:angry:

buehrle4cy05
05-21-2006, 03:50 PM
Back to 2nd place. :whiner:

It's May 21 and Detroit has played one series against a good team.

We swept them.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 03:50 PM
Bad couple of innings against a ****ty team. It's a series win, which is the important thing in the big picture. Take the series against the A's and it's a good homestand.

My guess is Cintron may get a little more playing time this week. Not b/c of Juan's error, but for his lack of approach at the plate. Knowing how good the Sox coaches are, he seems to be completely ignoring what they are preaching to him.

rookie
05-21-2006, 03:50 PM
That was a stupid way to lose and it wasn't fair to Jose. Oh well, let's celebrate Big Frank's return with a run. Now seems like the perfect time to watch the Game 2 DVD of the WS.

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 03:50 PM
That was frustrating.

patbooyah
05-21-2006, 03:50 PM
I'm not as mad about losing to the cubs as I am about going back to second place.:angry: :angry:

amen. uribe made a boneriffic play, but i'll still take him at short any day

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 03:50 PM
lets hope the guys stay upbeat and show up against the a's the next few days, i'm sure they will

:ozzie
"They [bleeping] better show up!"

Kogs35
05-21-2006, 03:51 PM
maybe having a stomach bug today was signs of things that where going to happen. mehhhh oh well 2/3 is still good. so the kitties have a 1 game lead, they may be for real but they will also have there ups and downs.

Corlose 15
05-21-2006, 03:51 PM
The Sox just giftwrapped this game for the worthless Cubs and fell out of first place and all some people say is "oh well". What happend to the good ole pissed off WSI I used to know?

Who cares? I sure as hell do. This team needs to fix its bullpen and stop giving away games to ****ty teams. :angry:

white sox bill
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
Maybe swinging a bat might have helped

viagracat
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
There were a few good things today (JC, Paulie), but the defense today was pathetic. They didn't deserve to win this one. :angry:

But keep taking two out of three and even Homefish will eventually be happy. I hope.

Kick Oakland's asses.

CubsfansareDRUNK
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
damn, that sucked so much

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
god **** it I am pissed off. way to gift wrap the ******* game and hand it over to the ******* northsiders after what happened yesterday. this ******* bullpen is raising my blood pressure and I'm too young to die.

************************************************** ***************************************

contreras did not deserve the ND and we choked it off for him. we better get our **** together because I'm tired of blowing games against garbage teams.

infohawk
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
But, boy, am I really pissed that we had the sweep of our crosstown rival in the grasp of our hands until our defense gift wrapped it away.
I was pretty upset too, but as far as I'm concerned Uribe gets a break because of all of the stellar plays he does make. Especially those two to close out the World Series.

dpbyron
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
Let's not forget this... HELLO:D:

http://msni.pricegrabber.com/product_images/17139000-17139999/17139943_640.jpg

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
The Sox just giftwrapped this game for the worthless Cubs and fell out of first place and all some people say is "oh well". What happend to the good ole pissed off WSI I used to know?

Who cares? I sure as hell do. This team needs to fix its bullpen and stop giving away games to ****ty teams. :angry:

Some of us have perspective and realize it's a marathon, not a sprint. Was it a bad loss? Sure. Can it be frustrating? Yep. But some of the comments coming from people are just laughable.

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
It's fine to be pissed over how we lost this game; I sure am.

But let's not get dark cloudish.

Kogs35
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
The Sox just giftwrapped this game for the worthless Cubs and fell out of first place and all some people say is "oh well". What happend to the good ole pissed off WSI I used to know?

Who cares? I sure as hell do. This team needs to fix its bullpen and stop giving away games to ****ty teams. :angry:

they need to play better defence is some cases.

JUribe1989
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
This is almost the exact same game as the third game against the Cubs last year in Wrigley. We were winning and looked like we would sweep them, but were stopped by a 3 run HR for Jason Dubois after a good pitching performance by B-Mac. We took 2 of 3 that time and did the same thing this time.

:bandance:2 of 3 from the Flubs is worthwhile to me!

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
The Sox just giftwrapped this game for the worthless Cubs and fell out of first place and all some people say is "oh well". What happend to the good ole pissed off WSI I used to know?

Who cares? I sure as hell do. This team needs to fix its bullpen and stop giving away games to ****ty teams. :angry:


I can't believe people are actually worried about the standings in May.

mrs. hendu
05-21-2006, 03:53 PM
It's May 21 and Detroit has played one series against a good team.
We swept them.
You're right, but it's frustrating. :(:

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 03:53 PM
Nothing to really be upset about, we won the series.

I didn't know Jerry Manuel still posted here.

oeo
05-21-2006, 03:54 PM
Cliff has not shown any signs of improvement, he's not the guy he was last year, and I don't think he ever will be again. I hope I'm wrong, but the ball is hit hard off of everyone's bat against this guy.

I don't know what happened to Cotts. He had Barrett 0-2 and then went on to give up a triple. I think the triple got to his head.

samram
05-21-2006, 03:54 PM
I think BA catches Barrett's ball, but Uribe just had a crap game today. And Jock Jones is an *******.

Go get 'em tomorrow. Let's turn things around against the A's.

ndu3t4
05-21-2006, 03:54 PM
I don't think it's as much the bullpen as it is the rolls of the bullpen. We ned Thorton in there as our lefty set up guy. He has the stuff to get both lefties and rights plus Cotts is terrible. We also ned to get Nelson (EDIT: Stanton, Nelson, whatever) up here, Cliff is getting there, but he still has trouble.

buehrle4cy05
05-21-2006, 03:55 PM
All this talk about blowing games against bad teams made me think...I looked back at our schedule and checked. Three times has it happened (2 against KC and today).

It's a problem, but it doesn't seem like a problem that's going to happen every week. The middle of the bullpen has been weak, yes, but it could be worse.

And to reiterate my last point, being 1 game out of first on May 21 to a team that hasn't played anybody yet isn't so bad.

samram
05-21-2006, 03:55 PM
Some of us have perspective and realize it's a marathon, not a sprint. Was it a bad loss? Sure. Can it be frustrating? Yep. But some of the comments coming from people are just laughable.

There's no reason to live!!! Where's my kayak??:D:

Kogs35
05-21-2006, 03:55 PM
they should of held off on the throwbacks until the sleeveless where out of the rotation. i hate when they brake up the jerseys when they are on a roll.

oeo
05-21-2006, 03:55 PM
Let's not forget this... HELLO:D:

http://msni.pricegrabber.com/product_images/17139000-17139999/17139943_640.jpg

This isn't Uribe's fault. They still had the lead with a man on first, Cotts let it blow up into something more.

SoxSpeed22
05-21-2006, 03:55 PM
Hopefully Thornton can do the same thing that Cotts did last year and get on a hot streak because he'll be important. Crappy throw by Uribe but Cotts and Ozzie still had the chance to get out of the inning. 99 out of 100 times, Ozzie uses Politte to get Barrett, this was the one.

Jjav829
05-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I can't believe people are actually worried about the standings in May.

Amen! I don't even pay attention to the standings until July at the soonest. I can't believe there are people here who are actually watching the standings to see what place the Sox are in each day. Unless one team has a big lead, I couldn't care less which team is in first and which team is in second right now.

Right now, the only thing I'm worried about is that our bullpen is terrible.

infohawk
05-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I don't care that we lost to the cubs. It's how we lost and Detroit continuing to roll that has me concerned. Let's go get Oak
Detroit is for real, but there is still a long, hot summer ahead of them. Maybe they'll keep it up, maybe they won't. I will say that if they continue to be so good that we have to sweep every series to keep up with them, then they would deserve the division. I don't think, however, that they are quite that good. I'm not big on scoreboard watching this early in the season. The only thing that matters at this point is that you don't fall far behind. At this rate, both the Tigers and Sox would go to the playoffs. Long season ahead, though.

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I don't think it's as much the bullpen as it is the rolls of the bullpen. We ned Thorton in there as our lefty set up guy. He has the stuff to get both lefties and rights plus Cotts is terrible. We also ned to get Stanton up here, Cliff is getting there, but he still has trouble.


You just said Cotts is terrible and Cliff is "getting there" in the same sentence. LOL.:redface:

buehrle4cy05
05-21-2006, 03:56 PM
We also ned to get Stanton up here, Cliff is getting there, but he still has trouble.

You mean Nelson.

Don't worry, I got them mixed up all the time, too.:redface:

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I don't think it's as much the bullpen as it is the rolls of the bullpen. We ned Thorton in there as our lefty set up guy. He has the stuff to get both lefties and rights plus Cotts is terrible. We also ned to get Stanton up here, Cliff is getting there, but he still has trouble.

**cue Twilight Zone music** Cotts terrible? Stanton?

samram
05-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I don't think it's as much the bullpen as it is the rolls of the bullpen. We ned Thorton in there as our lefty set up guy. He has the stuff to get both lefties and rights plus Cotts is terrible. We also ned to get Stanton up here, Cliff is getting there, but he still has trouble.

Cott's is "terrible"? What games are you watching? He has an ERA in the mid-2s. And who's Stanton?

Corlose 15
05-21-2006, 03:57 PM
I can't believe people are actually worried about the standings in May.

I'm not worried about it in the long run. What worries me is losing series to Tampa Bay, and blowing leads to ****ty teams like Kansas City and the Cubs.

JUribe1989
05-21-2006, 03:57 PM
I didn't know Jerry Manuel still posted here.

Yeah, I would have rather lost 2 of 3 and be pissed off as hell like you. :D:

Why can't some people just be happy winning series. It's what got us so far last year.

Jjav829
05-21-2006, 03:58 PM
I think BA catches Barrett's ball, but Uribe just had a crap game today. And Jock Jones is an *******.

Go get 'em tomorrow. Let's turn things around against the A's.

I agree that BA probably would have caught that ball.

As for Uribe, I don't fauly him completely. It wasn't the greatest throw, but I thought Paulie could have had that. I would have to see the replay again, but I think Paulie set up too soon and couldn't adjust to the outside throw.

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 03:58 PM
I'm not worried about it in the long run. What worries me is losing series to Tampa Bay, and blowing leads to ****ty teams like Kansas City and the Cubs.

If you're not "worried about it in the long run" then just relax and act like you've watched an entire season before. I don't know if we're spoiled as Sox fans or our collective IQ is going down the toilet.

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 03:58 PM
Neal's implosion was awful though. I can understand being upset about it, but we still had the lead. You can't lay in gopher balls to major league hitters.

He had been lights out lately... just a stinker today.

oeo
05-21-2006, 03:59 PM
Cott's is "terrible"? What games are you watching? He has an ERA in the mid-2s. And who's Stanton?
I'm with you, Cotts isn't terrible...where is he getting this from?

And Cliff is "getting there"? The only place Cliff is getting, is closer to getting shipped out of here. Career year last year, and he hasn't proved it otherwise.

And I really wish Thome wasn't so much of a pull hitter. He had plenty of pitches that he could have just lined right down the line. He's always swinging too hard, and he either hits it a mile, or he's walking back to the dugout. Crede is slumping too :(:

dpbyron
05-21-2006, 03:59 PM
This is insane people. Its only May, we have the 2nd best recoed in baseball and people are freaking out... :angry:

That other team is celebrating NOT GETTING swept like they won the World Series...:roflmao:

RELAX!!

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 03:59 PM
If you're not "worried about it in the long run" then just relax and act like you've watched an entire season before. I don't know if we're spoiled as Sox fans or our collective IQ is going down the toilet.

I definitely vote the latter. Especially after listening to the dolts sitting behind me at yesterday's game.

SoxSpeed22
05-21-2006, 04:00 PM
This is insane people. Its only May, we have the 2nd best recoed in baseball and people are freaking out... :angry:

That other team is celebrating NOT GETTING swept like they won the World Series...:roflmao:

RELAX!!This is all true, but this loss still ****in sucks!:mad:

samram
05-21-2006, 04:00 PM
I agree that BA probably would have caught that ball.

As for Uribe, I don't fauly him completely. It wasn't the greatest throw, but I thought Paulie could have had that. I would have to see the replay again, but I think Paulie set up too soon and couldn't adjust to the outside throw.

Yeah, I mentioned that in the chat, but Uribe still had a bad game. He makes that play 99% of the time. Oh well- the bullpen is a bigger concern. That run off Cliff in the ninth made Dumpster's job a lot easier.

buehrle4cy05
05-21-2006, 04:00 PM
I would have to see the replay again, but I think Paulie set up too soon and couldn't adjust to the outside throw.

It looked to me like he was leaning towards Uribe before he made the throw. It's understandable, on that double play ball you want the maximum stretch, knowing it's going to be close and there's a run on the line. Paulie shouldn't have done it, but as a former first baseman who did that a lot, I have some sympathy for him.

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 04:00 PM
IAs for Uribe, I don't fauly him completely. It wasn't the greatest throw, but I thought Paulie could have had that. I would have to see the replay again, but I think Paulie set up too soon and couldn't adjust to the outside throw.
He stretched before the throw and he should've knocked it down at least. The bad defense was catchy today. It happens.

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 04:00 PM
Neal's implosion was awful though. I can understand being upset about it, but we still had the lead. You can't lay in gopher balls to major league hitters.

He had been lights out lately... just a stinker today.

What gopher ball? Jones hit a good pitch. It wasn't like he hung a breaking ball on an 0-2 count. Tip your hat to Jones and move on. Cotts did what he needed to do to get out of the inning. Uribe let him down. Juan's not going to let us down defensively very often.

dpbyron
05-21-2006, 04:01 PM
This is all true, but this loss still ****in sucks!:mad:

Ah, of course it sucks, but these people need to relax... Sit back strap it down and have a drink from your WORLD SERIES CHAMPION PINT GLASSES:gulp:

Jjav829
05-21-2006, 04:02 PM
Detroit is for real, but there is still a long, hot summer ahead of them. Maybe they'll keep it up, maybe they won't. I will say that if they continue to be so good that we have to sweep every series to keep up with them, then they would deserve the division. I don't think, however, that they are quite that good. I'm not big on scoreboard watching this early in the season. The only thing that matters at this point is that you don't fall far behind. At this rate, both the Tigers and Sox would go to the playoffs. Long season ahead, though.

I don't think Detroit is this good. They are a good team with a bright future, but I think they will regress a bit. Let's remember that this isn't the first time Kenny Rogers has started off hot. He is a first-half pitcher. He won't have a sub-3 ERA all season. There will be some tough starts ahead for Rogers.

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 04:02 PM
Ozzie presser...

-Does not seem pissed over loss.
-Jose pitched well as did Zambrano.
-Thought Zambrano was signaling that he wanted to hit someone in the head; thinks he was mad at AJ.
-Says he expects Sox fans to treat Frank well tomorrow, unlike how Cleveland fans treated Thome.
-Ozzie didn't think there would be a fight today, said there was pregame meeting with umpires.
-Ozzie takes blame for leaving pitchers in too long.
-Does not throw Uribe under the bus (like I did in the game thread).

peeonwrigley
05-21-2006, 04:02 PM
On another note, I hate day game losses.

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:02 PM
Cliff is returning to the form that earned him the "gascan" nickname. Cotts is the only guy worth a **** there. I'll give him a pass today since if we make one freaking play for him and Jose we're out of the 8th. Cotts, Jenks, and Thornton are the only guys that have been looking like they're worth a **** lately.

infohawk
05-21-2006, 04:02 PM
This team needs to fix its bullpen and stop giving away games to ****ty teams. :angry:
I really, really believe that the Sox will massively upgrade the bullpen in the second half. We don't need starting pitchers, position players or bench help (barring something unforseen). KW can therefore save our best packages for relievers. I only partially blame the bullpen today because of the error, but I think that the only thing keeping this team from going on routine, unstoppable runs is the pen. Fortunately, KW improved the team enough to overcome our one arguable weakness.

Is it me, or does Cliff seem to give up an inordinate number of hits after he gets 2 strikes on a batter? To me, this is the biggest difference between Cliff last year and this year. He doesn't seem to have that "out" pitch this year.

Corlose 15
05-21-2006, 04:02 PM
If you're not "worried about it in the long run" then just relax and act like you've watched an entire season before. I don't know if we're spoiled as Sox fans or our collective IQ is going down the toilet.

Its the ho-hum, oh well we just gift wrapped a game to worthless team "who cares" attitude that bugs me. I know its a "marathon" I've heard that cliche a thousand times.

Alright, I just needed to vent. I still think the Sox are going to win the division and I know the season isn't over this game was just frustrating as hell.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 04:02 PM
It looked to me like he was leaning towards Uribe before he made the throw. It's understandable, on that double play ball you want the maximum stretch, knowing it's going to be close and there's a run on the line. Paulie shouldn't have done it, but as a former first baseman who did that a lot, I have some sympathy for him.

PK failed to adjust. He set up on the middle of the bag and instead of moving his feet, he reached across his body. The ball ticked his glove. It was a poor throw by Juan, but also a poor job by PK. In general, it was a bad last 2 innings. And **** like that happens.

Time to look forward to the Oakland series. Take care of business there and you have 2 good series in a row heading into Memorial Day Weekend, which is really the first time any glance at the standings should be made.

dpbyron
05-21-2006, 04:03 PM
If you're not "worried about it in the long run" then just relax and act like you've watched an entire season before. I don't know if we're spoiled as Sox fans or our collective IQ is going down the toilet.

Amen brother...

samram
05-21-2006, 04:03 PM
I don't think Detroit is this good. They are a good team with a bright future, but I think they will regress a bit. Let's remember that this isn't the first time Kenny Rogers has started off hot. He is a first-half pitcher. He won't have a sub-3 ERA all season. There will be some tough starts ahead for Rogers.

Well, if you look at their schedule, they have KC for four this week. Then they get Cleveland, New York, Boston, the Sox, and Toronto for two and a half weeks. Let's see where they are after that.

Law11
05-21-2006, 04:03 PM
Thank God this series is over. now we get to face a guy we need to get to in Zito...

This game is as frustrated as Ive been all year. This bullpen needs to have the abiliy to pitch over mistakes...

And Ive yet to see it..

Corlose 15
05-21-2006, 04:03 PM
I don't think Detroit is this good. They are a good team with a bright future, but I think they will regress a bit. Let's remember that this isn't the first time Kenny Rogers has started off hot. He is a first-half pitcher. He won't have a sub-3 ERA all season. There will be some tough starts ahead for Rogers.

Today was their 8th shutout of the year, I'm not sure what to make of that. Though I agree with you, Rogers is a first half pitcher, at some point Maroth will realize he's average and they won't pitch as well.

oeo
05-21-2006, 04:04 PM
This is insane people. Its only May, we have the 2nd best recoed in baseball and people are freaking out... :angry:

That other team is celebrating NOT GETTING swept like they won the World Series...:roflmao:

RELAX!!

Losing to the Flubs is never fun, they suck. Especially when you have to watch Jockstrap Jones round the bases after a game-winning homerun and act like he just hit the game-winning homerun of the World Series.

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 04:05 PM
I really, really believe that the Sox will massively upgrade the bullpen in the second half. We don't need starting pitchers, position players or bench help (barring something unforseen). KW can therefore save our best packages for relievers. I only partially blame the bullpen today because of the error, but I think that the only thing keeping this team from going on routine, unstoppable runs is the pen. Fortunately, KW improved the team enough to overcome our one arguable weakness.

Is it me, or does Cliff seem to give up an inordinate number of hits after he gets 2 strikes on a batter? To me, this is the biggest difference between Cliff last year and this year. He doesn't seem to have that "out" pitch this year.

He can't get his fastball by anyone. He throws too many 2 seamers and his slider's not really that good when he doesn't locate it perfectly. His arm really hasn't been the same for a long time.

KW will address the pen. We have enough trade bait to get a nice package for a couple relievers or a reliever and a couple of good prospects IMO.

infohawk
05-21-2006, 04:05 PM
And to reiterate my last point, being 1 game out of first on May 21 to a team that hasn't played anybody yet isn't so bad.
And not only one out of first, but both the Tigers and Sox have the two best records in MLB.

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 04:05 PM
What gopher ball? Jones hit a good pitch. It wasn't like he hung a breaking ball on an 0-2 count. Tip your hat to Jones and move on. Cotts did what he needed to do to get out of the inning. Uribe let him down. Juan's not going to let us down defensively very often.

You expect Jones to do that to us... it's the Barrett hit that has me upset. I wonder why Anderson wasn't in that inning? 8th and Mack's spot not due up in the next inning.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 04:06 PM
Losing to the Flubs is never fun, they suck. Especially when you have to watch Jockstrap Jones round the bases after a game-winning homerun and act like he just hit the game-winning homerun of the World Series.

Well, in defense of Jones, that WAS the biggest hit of his career. Seriously, it was.

oeo
05-21-2006, 04:06 PM
I don't think Detroit is this good. They are a good team with a bright future, but I think they will regress a bit. Let's remember that this isn't the first time Kenny Rogers has started off hot. He is a first-half pitcher. He won't have a sub-3 ERA all season. There will be some tough starts ahead for Rogers.
I've been saying this all year. The Tigers are NOT the 2005 White Sox, I really wish people would stop comparing the two. They just had a lot of trouble with a mediocre Reds team, all weekend. The Royals have been giving a lot of teams trouble lately, hopefully they can take a couple. I still don't think the Tigers will be in the race in August.

And like you said, you never know with Rogers. He's old, and those guys have a tendency to not pitch well for a full season...as well as your point that he doesn't pitch well in the second half.

ndu3t4
05-21-2006, 04:06 PM
All I have to say to the douchebags that jumped on me is that what we have now isn't working, and yes, I would rather have politte in there than Cotts. I think he has better stuff. He has the velocity, he just has to get his control back. Cotts is running it up there at 88 mph at best and he isn't throwing any breaking pitches. That's a recipe for disaster.

buehrle4cy05
05-21-2006, 04:07 PM
I don't think Detroit is this good. They are a good team with a bright future, but I think they will regress a bit. Let's remember that this isn't the first time Kenny Rogers has started off hot. He is a first-half pitcher. He won't have a sub-3 ERA all season. There will be some tough starts ahead for Rogers.

Backing up Jjav here, over the past three years Rogers has an ERA of 3.87 before the All-Star game. After his ERA goes up nearly one run, with a 4.80 mark after the break. Mike Maroth? Same deal. Last year his ERA was 4.20 before the All-Star break, after it was 5.44. Jeremy Bonderman before the All-Star game last year: 4.00 ERA. See a pattern? After his ERA went up to 5.61.

JUribe1989
05-21-2006, 04:07 PM
Well, in defense of Jones, that WAS the biggest hit of his career. Seriously, it was.

Not even close. He's had bigger hits against us with the Twins then that meaningless one in a game where they had already lost the series and were just praying to avoid a sweep.

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 04:07 PM
I've been saying this all year. The Tigers are NOT the 2005 White Sox, I really wish people would stop comparing the two.

I hope they aren't the '84 Tigers either.

peeonwrigley
05-21-2006, 04:08 PM
Well, in defense of Jones, that WAS the biggest hit of his career. Seriously, it was.
Then his second biggest hit was probably breaking up Freddy's no-no last year at the dump in Minnesota.

He kills the Sox.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 04:08 PM
I've been saying this all year. The Tigers are NOT the 2005 White Sox, I really wish people would stop comparing the two.
Agreed. They've got one guy currently pitching over 2 runs better than his career ERA. Another who is about 1.5 runs better than his career ERA. And a third guy who has collapsed after the All-Start break the last couple of years.

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 04:08 PM
All I have to say to the douchebags that jumped on me is that what we have now isn't working, and yes, I would rather have politte in there than Cotts. I think he has better stuff. He has the velocity, he just has to get his control back. Cotts is running it up there at 88 mph at best and he isn't throwing any breaking pitches. That's a recipe for disaster.


You've proved that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I'm not going to dissect you're post because, frankly, the entire thing's garbage. :dtroll:

infohawk
05-21-2006, 04:08 PM
Right now, the only thing I'm worried about is that our bullpen is terrible.

:KW
"Jjav829, I'm on it man!"

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:08 PM
All I have to say to the douchebags that jumped on me is that what we have now isn't working, and yes, I would rather have politte in there than Cotts. I think he has better stuff. He has the velocity, he just has to get his control back. Cotts is running it up there at 88 mph at best and he isn't throwing any breaking pitches. That's a recipe for disaster.

What more does Cotts have to do after getting them to ground into the most routine of double play balls?

buehrle4cy05
05-21-2006, 04:09 PM
Well, in defense of Jones, that WAS the biggest hit of his career. Seriously, it was.

That isn't saying much about Jones's career.:cool:

dpbyron
05-21-2006, 04:09 PM
Losing to the Flubs is never fun, they suck. Especially when you have to watch Jockstrap Jones round the bases after a game-winning homerun and act like he just hit the game-winning homerun of the World Series.

I understand, but the War is over... We won it October 26th 2005.

Hitmen77
05-21-2006, 04:09 PM
Its the ho-hum, oh well we just gift wrapped a game to worthless team "who cares" attitude that bugs me. I know its a "marathon" I've heard that cliche a thousand times.

Alright, I just needed to vent. I still think the Sox are going to win the division and I know the season isn't this game was just frustrating as hell.

I agree with you. I can accept 2/3, in general, from any team. I can even accept it when our bullpen gives up earned runs. But to ****ing gift wrap this game by blowing a routine double play - that really bothers me.

Sorry, I don't see that as "one of the 60 we're going to lose anyway". This is not one of those games that we're bound to lose.

samram
05-21-2006, 04:09 PM
I hope they aren't the '84 Tigers either.

Weren't they 35-5 at this time that year? They aren't that good. Also remember that Shelton hasn't played a full big league season yet and Maggs and Guillen didn't play the full season last year- there could be some fatigue in the second half.

Frankfan4life
05-21-2006, 04:09 PM
This game really depressed me. Why can't we sweep this team? Aaarrggh!

I despise errors. We gave this game away! There's no excuse for sloppy fielding like that. Uribe is going to be in my doghouse for a while! If you're not hitting, at least FIELD THE BALL!!!! Bah!!!!

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 04:10 PM
All I have to say to the douchebags that jumped on me is that what we have now isn't working, and yes, I would rather have politte in there than Cotts. I think he has better stuff. He has the velocity, he just has to get his control back. Cotts is running it up there at 88 mph at best and he isn't throwing any breaking pitches. That's a recipe for disaster.

If you don't realize that speed is not everything in pitching, then you don't understand baseball. Cotts has been very good the last couple of years. If you fail to see that, you deserve to be jumped on. Nice to know a bunch of us are douchebags though. I'll remember that.

SOXSINCE'70
05-21-2006, 04:10 PM
I'm not as mad about losing to the cubs as I am about going back to second place.:angry: :angry:

That's what's roasting my ass!! **** the Northside Losing Assclowns!!
Second place is not an option!!:angry: :angry:

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 04:11 PM
If you don't realize that speed is not everything in pitching, then you don't understand baseball. Cotts has been very good the last couple of years. If you fail to see that, you deserve to be jumped on. Nice to know a bunch of us are douchebags though. I'll remember that.

Not to mention the WGN gun was on the fritz. I don't think I saw a ball in the 90s all day.

HITMEN OF 77
05-21-2006, 04:11 PM
Detroit Tigers = Dandelions. Up in the spring, down in the fall.

gobears1987
05-21-2006, 04:11 PM
Uribe really needs to start hitting.

The pen looks bad, but we have so manyh prospects in AA and AAA suceeding that we can probably solve that problem without a KW trade. (but one wouldn't hurt) Remember, Bobby Jenks was a no name in AA this time last year. If we have AAA pitchers thriving in the pitchers park in Charlotte, then there is a chance that some of them will have their success carry over. It's worth a try.

PK looked awesome. AJ looked good too. JC looked good. He gave us 7 solid innings. Aramis just kills him.

This is one of the 60 games that Hawk always talks about.

JUribe1989
05-21-2006, 04:12 PM
That isn't saying much about Jones's career.:cool:

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. :D:

Law11
05-21-2006, 04:12 PM
What more does Cotts have to do after getting them to ground into the most routine of double play balls?

Get over it and move on to the next batter which the bullpen cleary cant do.
Pitchers need to pitch over mistakes.. Jose did it twice..

Our bullpen is a sham right now...
We pitch great with 7-0 leads...

It's Time
05-21-2006, 04:12 PM
Juan Uribe can take a seat on the bench and stay there. Jacque Jones continues to kill the White Sox. Bad loss to a bad team.

oeo
05-21-2006, 04:12 PM
All I have to say to the douchebags that jumped on me is that what we have now isn't working, and yes, I would rather have politte in there than Cotts. I think he has better stuff. He has the velocity, he just has to get his control back. Cotts is running it up there at 88 mph at best and he isn't throwing any breaking pitches. That's a recipe for disaster.

Uhm...we're the douchebags, when you're calling us names? Politte is NOT a guy you want to see right now. He's been serving up meatballs all year, and he's still getting hit hard (gave up another run in 1 and 1/3).

Cotts >>> Politte

ndu3t4
05-21-2006, 04:13 PM
You've proved that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I'm not going to dissect you're post because, frankly, the entire thing's garbage. :dtroll:

I'm not saying that Politte's an all-star. I'm saying that I think, IN MY OPINION, that I would rather have him in there. He's the lesser of the two evils. I don't think either of them should be set-up men, I think it should be thornton and McCarthy.

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 04:13 PM
Get over it and move on to the next batter which the bullpen cleary cant do.
Pitchers need to pitch over mistakes.. Jose did it twice..

Our bullpen is a sham right now...
We pitch great with 7-0 leads...

Thank the maker we have a club that gets 7-0 leads.

gobears1987
05-21-2006, 04:14 PM
amen. uribe made a boneriffic play, but i'll still take him at short any dayAnd Pat finds a way to use the wordboner in the postgame thread. NOt surprised.

:gulp: oh well, we'll get the A's. They aren't as good as ESPN says they are.

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 04:14 PM
AJ vs. Zambrano:

AJ pointed to the sky after Zambrano said something to AJ as he was rounding third.

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:15 PM
Get over it and move on to the next batter which the bullpen cleary cant do.
Pitchers need to pitch over mistakes.. Jose did it twice..

Our bullpen is a sham right now...
We pitch great with 7-0 leads...

it's not like he was throwing meatballs up there. it was two pokes to the opposite field.

goon
05-21-2006, 04:17 PM
don't know if it has been mentioned, but it seems as if many of the sox losses come off of sometype of meltdown. it's not like too many teams just go out and beat us, it's usually a big 4-5 run inning, or a error on defense, i can't think of too many games where a team just goes out and straight up beats us.

either way we have a great record, but when these type of situations arise, i think the team, especially whoever is on the mound, needs a take a few seconds, relax and just go out and do their job. this team is too good to lose games by imploding the way they do, from time to time.

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 04:17 PM
I'm not saying that Politte's an all-star. I'm saying that I think, IN MY OPINION, that I would rather have him in there. He's the lesser of the two evils. I don't think either of them should be set-up men, I think it should be thornton and McCarthy.

You should just stop. Seriously.

CLR01
05-21-2006, 04:18 PM
I'm not saying that Politte's an all-star. I'm saying that I think, IN MY OPINION, that I would rather have him in there. He's the lesser of the two evils. I don't think either of them should be set-up men, I think it should be thornton and McCarthy.


You get a month off for calling the people who "jumped" on you douchebags and another month for suggesting Thornton should be the set-up man. Use the time to get a clue.

infohawk
05-21-2006, 04:19 PM
I don't think Detroit is this good. They are a good team with a bright future, but I think they will regress a bit. Let's remember that this isn't the first time Kenny Rogers has started off hot. He is a first-half pitcher. He won't have a sub-3 ERA all season. There will be some tough starts ahead for Rogers. Oh, I agree. I think there will be some regression, albeit not necessarily a huge regression. They are a pretty good team, but I don't think their pitching is quite THIS good. In fairness, it is possible for a rotation to exceed their abilities together for an entire season. It's rare, but this is what we have to hope doesn't happen. I just don't want to pooh-pooh them too much because I didn't like it when others did it to the Sox last year.

What I like about the Sox is that they are right with the Tigers and nobody is really having a "career year." We are this good. Sure, some guys are having a better year than last year, but some of the same guys were hitting below their career lines last year. Also, and this is big, the Tigers have everything going right while the Sox still have room for improvement to an already strong team. KW will upgrade the 'pen, and then it could very well be "good morning, good afternoon and goodnight."

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 04:19 PM
You get a month off for calling the people who "jumped" on you douchebags and another month for suggesting Thornton should be the set-up man. Use the time to get a clue.

By then, KW will have gotten us new relievers he can critique for us. Can't wait!

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:20 PM
don't know if it has been mentioned, but it seems as if many of the sox losses come off of sometype of meltdown. it's not like too many teams just go out and beat us, it's usually a big 4-5 run inning, or a error on defense, i can't think of too many games where a team just goes out and straight up beats us.

either way we have a great record, but when these type of situations arise, i think the team, especially whoever is on the mound, needs a take a few seconds, relax and just go out and do their job. this team is too good to lose games by imploding the way they do, from time to time.

it sucks even more because we had the chance to come out and make a statement after what happened yesterday.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 04:20 PM
You get a month off for calling the people who "jumped" on you douchebags and another month for suggesting Thornton should be the set-up man. Use the time to get a clue.

Glad I deleted my post suggesting we should move Cotts into the rotation after Contreras' awful start today.

oeo
05-21-2006, 04:21 PM
I'm not saying that Politte's an all-star. I'm saying that I think, IN MY OPINION, that I would rather have him in there. He's the lesser of the two evils. I don't think either of them should be set-up men, I think it should be thornton and McCarthy.

Politte (before today):
14 and 1/3 innings: 10 runs, 16 hits, 3 homeruns, 5 BB, and 8 K's. 5.65 ERA.

Cotts (before today):
18 innings: 5 runs, 17 hits, 2 homeruns, 6 BB, and 11 K's. 2.50 ERA.

Both had tough starts (Politte continues to stink up the joint).

If you want Politte over Cotts, so be it...I'm just glad you're not Ozzie Guillen.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 04:21 PM
it sucks even more because we had the chance to come out and make a statement after what happened yesterday.

Hitting a grand slam a batter later, winning the game 7-0, and being one of the best teams in baseball is enough of a statement.

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 04:22 PM
it sucks even more because we had the chance to come out and make a statement after what happened yesterday.
Gooch made our response yesterday. I don't need statements... I just need the Sox to keep playing like the Sox.

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:24 PM
Hitting a grand slam a batter later, winning the game 7-0, and being one of the best teams in baseball is enough of a statement.

we obviously had some "differences" today that should have been ironed out by a sweep. letting them steal one just burns me up.

rookie
05-21-2006, 04:24 PM
Hitting a grand slam a batter later, winning the game 7-0, and being one of the best teams in baseball is enough of a statement.

Agreed. And seeing AJ do well after hearing all the stupid stuff people have been saying about him even though he didn't do anything wrong was nice as well.

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:25 PM
Gooch made our response yesterday. I don't need statements... I just need the Sox to keep playing like the Sox.

so do I. I didn't see it the last two innings.

goon
05-21-2006, 04:26 PM
bottom line is we won the series. if uribe makes a good throw (or paulie reacts a little faster) we are out of the inning. i have not even come close to losing my faith in this bullpen or cotts, though i think it would have been smart to throw a better pitch in a 0-2 count on barrett, instead of serving one up. the game should have been won, but it's not like the cubs beat the crap out of us, we kind of beat ourselves. just need to play a bit smarter in tight situations like that.

edit: i'd rather lose like that, than going out and getting our asses kicked. the type of problems that the sox have are correctable, it's just a matter of making those corrections.

HotelWhiteSox
05-21-2006, 04:30 PM
Zambrano is a piece of crap, I hate that son of a bitch, I hope the Sox make a real statement (retaliation) at the Urinal.

Defense pisses away the game (not mad at Uribe, but would've Anderson made that catch?), but the bullpen is still iffy. I don't care about it being the Cubs or the record or standings, but the bullpen doesn't leave me with a warm feeling. Jose deserved that win

Harry Potter
05-21-2006, 04:37 PM
Ditch those jerseys. They are cursed.

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:38 PM
Zambrano is a piece of crap, I hate that son of a bitch, I hope the Sox make a real statement (retaliation) at the Urinal.

Defense pisses away the game (not mad at Uribe, but would've Anderson made that catch?), but the bullpen is still iffy. I don't care about it being the Cubs or the record or standings, but the bullpen doesn't leave me with a warm feeling. Jose deserved that win

How can you give a pass to Uribe and in the same post wonder if BA could have made the play of the year?

dpbyron
05-21-2006, 04:39 PM
Yeah, I would have rather lost 2 of 3 and be pissed off as hell like you. :D:

Why can't some people just be happy winning series. It's what got us so far last year.

Exactly...

On that note, I am going to tip back a pint in my World Series Champion pint glass:gulp: and then sleep like a baby in my World Series Champion pj's...

It's a new world Sox fans, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM ANYMORE!

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 04:41 PM
Exactly...

On that note, I am going to tip back a pint in my World Series Champion pint glass:gulp: and then sleep like a baby in my World Series Champion pj's...

It's a new world Sox fans, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM ANYMORE!

Last year is history. The best thing about sports is that you start over every year. This year I want to stomp the **** out of everybody. When we do stupid things that get in the way of that I'm not happy. The franchise isn't happy with just one ring, I don't see why we have to be either.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 04:47 PM
It's not the first time the Sox have won the first two games of the Cubs series only to fail to sweep them...in fact it seems to happen every year.

This is the 6TH time the Sox have taken a lead into the 7th inning or later and pissed away the game. Four times it was the bullpen and twice the starting pitcher.

That's an awful lot of games to give away don't ya think?

Lip

HotelWhiteSox
05-21-2006, 04:49 PM
How can you give a pass to Uribe and in the same post wonder if BA could have made the play of the year?

Everyone makes errors, even if it's rare, it happens, and we know that's not the norm with Juan. I don't think there's a question whether Anderson or Mackowiak is the better OF

SOXSINCE'70
05-21-2006, 04:51 PM
Paging Jeff Nelson,paging Jeff Nelson,
you're needed at 333 W. 35th St. immediately!!

dpbyron
05-21-2006, 04:51 PM
Last year is history. The best thing about sports is that you start over every year. This year I want to stomp the **** out of everybody. When we do stupid things that get in the way of that I'm not happy. The franchise isn't happy with just one ring, I don't see why we have to be either.

But don't you get it? If you let them see that it bothers you it makes them happy? If I were at home and a Cub fan made a comment, I'd laugh and say 2005 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS over and over about 1,908 times. That is the beauty of winning it all, you have that ace in the whole trump card everytime. My advice is to relax, enjoy yourself and use that card as much as possible!!!

EdHerman12
05-21-2006, 04:56 PM
All I know is our middle relief better get it together or when we face the Motor City Kitties it'll be lights out, party's over...I watched all 3 Tiger games and they are the real deal....8 shutouts, and hitting the hell out of the ball at the right time...

GO SOX1

Law11
05-21-2006, 04:57 PM
it's not like he was throwing meatballs up there. it was two pokes to the opposite field.

THEY WERE MEATBALLS!!!! Anything left hangin on the plate on 0-2 counts is a MEATBALL!!!!!!Cotts even said they were horrible pitches.

It's Time
05-21-2006, 05:07 PM
It's not the first time the Sox have won the first two games of the Cubs series only to fail to sweep them...in fact it seems to happen every year.

This is the 6TH time the Sox have taken a lead into the 7th inning or later and pissed away the game. Four times it was the bullpen and twice the starting pitcher.

That's an awful lot of games to give away don't ya think?

Lip


If I were to take one thing from that terrible team up North, it would be the back end of the bullpen. The pen needs some help.

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 05:11 PM
THEY WERE MEATBALLS!!!! Anything left hangin on the plate on 0-2 counts is a MEATBALL!!!!!!Cotts even said they were horrible pitches.

knee-high is not what I'd call a meatball. they may have caught too much plate for an 0-2 count but at least he's keeping the ball down. were ramirez's jacks meatballs too since he hit them out?

itsnotrequired
05-21-2006, 05:11 PM
Bah, a crappy game for me. I totally underestimated the temp and wind. Our seats are in the shade and we only lasted until the second inning. We watched the rest of the game from the Fan Deck so we could be in the sun...and now I have a sunburn.:angry:

First loss that junior has witnessed. 7-1 on the season.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 05:14 PM
Regarding Uribe's error....errors happen, no one can play 100% and make every single play.

What some are forgetting is that if the next hitter is retired the Sox take a 4-3 lead into the 9th inning.

A concern, in my opinion, should be that when an error is made or the umpire blows a call, our pitchers haven't followed it up by getting the next hitter and ending it. Instead they implode.

Happened with Vazquez versus the Twins and it happened today.

Unacceptable.

Lip

Chips
05-21-2006, 05:15 PM
Bah, a crappy game for me. I totally underestimated the temp and wind. Our seats are in the shade and we only lasted until the second inning. We watched the rest of the game from the Fan Deck so we could be in the sun...and now I have a sunburn.:angry:

First loss that junior has witnessed. 7-1 on the season.

You're not the only one who underestimated the wind, it sucks as did our relief pitching. Bah is right.

Brian26
05-21-2006, 05:16 PM
Nothing to really be upset about, we won the series.

I think there's a lot to be upset about, because we gave that game away and should have taken the sweep. I hate this ho-hum attitude by some people around here. Yeah, winning the series is great, but you can't be happy about the performance of the bullpen today and giving this game away.

Brian26
05-21-2006, 05:18 PM
The Sox just giftwrapped this game for the worthless Cubs and fell out of first place and all some people say is "oh well". What happend to the good ole pissed off WSI I used to know?

Who cares? I sure as hell do. This team needs to fix its bullpen and stop giving away games to ****ty teams. :angry:

Amen.

Law11
05-21-2006, 05:18 PM
knee-high is not what I'd call a meatball. they may have caught too much plate for an 0-2 count but at least he's keeping the ball down. were ramirez's jacks meatballs too since he hit them out?

Knee High is this day and age my opinion is a meatball. Youre allowing the hitter to get on top of the pitch and jack it.

I'm done with this subject.. I'm already sleeping on the couch after barking at my wife who wanted to go shopping after this nightmare. When will people learn to leave you alone to cool down after a game like this...

Talk about a bad day...

eurotrash35
05-21-2006, 05:18 PM
Regarding Uribe's error....errors happen, no one can play 100% and make every single play.

What some are forgetting is that if the next hitter is retired the Sox take a 4-3 lead into the 9th inning.

A concern, in my opinion, should be that when an error is made or the umpire blows, a call our pitchers haven't followed it up by getting the next hitter and ending it. Instead they implode.

Happened with Vazquez versus the Twins and it happened today.

Unacceptable.

Lip

The bullpen has blown all year. The defense needs to pick them up when it's late in the game. 2 errors before the botched DP even happens is inexcusable. Don't blame Cotts, he's one of the only guys that have earned their keep.

MrRoboto83
05-21-2006, 05:19 PM
Well the Flub fans won their world series(1 game against the Sox), now lets win our World Series in October.

itsnotrequired
05-21-2006, 05:19 PM
You're not the only one who underestimated the wind, it sucks as did our relief pitching. Bah is right.

I saw you and The Dude shivering away in 518. When the wind started blowing, I wanted to jump over the edge.

The woman sitting next to me ate TWO of those freezer pops that Ted was passing out before the game. She was in short sleeves as well. How she didn't freeze, I'll never know...

Brian26
05-21-2006, 05:22 PM
I agree that BA probably would have caught that ball.

BA may have caught that ball, but would he have hit the double to score a run earlier in the game?

Chips
05-21-2006, 05:23 PM
I saw you and The Dude shivering away in 518. When the wind started blowing, I wanted to jump over the edge.

The woman sitting next to me ate TWO of those freezer pops that Ted was passing out before the game. She was in short sleeves as well. How she didn't freeze, I'll never know...

I went down and bought a sweatshirt. I needed some more World Series gear anyways.

samram
05-21-2006, 05:23 PM
BA may have caught that ball, but would he have hit the double to score a run earlier in the game?

So defensive replacements in the late innings are not allowed?

TaylorStSox
05-21-2006, 05:24 PM
I think there's a lot to be upset about, because we gave that game away and should have taken the sweep. I hate this ho-hum attitude by some people around here. Yeah, winning the series is great, but you can't be happy about the performance of the bullpen today and giving this game away.

It's all about perspective, my friend. The season's too long to go through huge swings with every win/loss. Life's too short to spend too much time being frustrated at something that's out of your control. I bleed White Sox baseball, but I'm not going to let May loss really piss me off. If I did, I'd need a prescription to Prozac and new walls.

itsnotrequired
05-21-2006, 05:27 PM
I went down and bought a sweatshirt. I needed some more World Series gear anyways.
My wife bought a hat and jumper for the little guy. They only had 18 month old sizes in the gift shop so he was just swimming in the thing (he's only 8 months old). The jumper looks awesome. White with black pinstripes.:cool:

Brian26
05-21-2006, 05:32 PM
But don't you get it? If you let them see that it bothers you it makes them happy? If I were at home and a Cub fan made a comment, I'd laugh and say 2005 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS over and over about 1,908 times. That is the beauty of winning it all, you have that ace in the whole trump card everytime. My advice is to relax, enjoy yourself and use that card as much as possible!!!

I heard a lot of smack talking from Cubs fans a few rows above us. One dolt, in particular, kept reminding the entire section that "2005 was LAST year!"

I also heard these gems from his party:

"What is Howry's first name?"

"Sox are bandwagon fans."

"We suck, but you guys suck a lot worse." <--- This one in particular is insane.

"How's that for Double A?!" <--- This happened after Cotts gave up the hit to Barrett, but the guy saying it obviously got the quote wrong (should have been Triple A), but also didn't understand the context of the quote (Ozzie was refering to their Double A pitcher, not their catcher or our pitcher).

Brian26
05-21-2006, 05:34 PM
So defensive replacements in the late innings are not allowed?

Ah, good point. I missed that. I was assuming you're just talking about starting BA vs. Mack.

MrX
05-21-2006, 05:42 PM
Mackowiak made a bad read on the ball. He came in at first then had to go back for it.

RadioheadRocks
05-21-2006, 05:46 PM
Good to see Jose back and pitching well.

Exactly... he deserved better than the no-decision but I'm definitely encouraged by what I saw from him today. :D:

DickAllen72
05-21-2006, 06:07 PM
I know it's off topic but...

Lawrence Holmes is an *******.

chisoxmike
05-21-2006, 06:12 PM
Just got home.

Oh well. If they really wanted one, we'll give it to 'em.

Our pen really blows. Error or no error, there are two outs with a 4-3 lead, you still got to make the pitches. Contreras pitched over some muffs in the infield today with no problem.

Let's get the A's. This series is going to be tough.

Cub fan quotes:

"All Sox fans are bandwagon fans."
"HA, at least you guys didn't sweep us!!"
"Here we are plastic ballpark, plastic team."

HotelWhiteSox
05-21-2006, 06:14 PM
I know it's off topic but...

Lawrence Holmes is an *******.

Yes, I had to turn that **** off, unbearable.

Recap: Zambrano gets the benefit of the doubt because he always does hand signals. Pierzynski said postgame he didn't say anything and his pointing up was for a personal issue he and his family dealt with this week, to which LH responded with he didn't know what to believe. He didn't question credibility of Zambrano who I've already heard change the story from 'AJ said something' to 'gave him a bad look'

chisoxmike
05-21-2006, 06:16 PM
I still can't believe we've never sweapt the Cubs at our park yet.

So close...:whiner:

Anyway, we got to worry about other things now, getting back into first-keeping pace with the Tigers, getting bullpen help.

HotelWhiteSox
05-21-2006, 06:27 PM
Also worst part is that it should've been put away as another win over a AAA offense.

Mainly because now Oakland is in town, with Zito (cough lefty cough) starting tomorrow who has been very good lately while the Tigers get games against KC.

I'm not a pessimist and I still love our chances over any team, but would've been nice for the bullpen to hold it down against one of the worst offenses in the big leagues

samram
05-21-2006, 06:39 PM
Ah, good point. I missed that. I was assuming you're just talking about starting BA vs. Mack.

No problem. I said that about ten times in chat and no one seemed to get it either. I guess I should have been clearer. I thought starting Mack was the right move. BA wasn't going to touch Zambrano. I just think you need to have your best defenders out there in the late innings.

LongLiveFisk
05-21-2006, 06:40 PM
I heard a lot of smack talking from Cubs fans a few rows above us. One dolt, in particular, kept reminding the entire section that "2005 was LAST year!"

I also heard these gems from his party:

"What is Howry's first name?"

"Sox are bandwagon fans."

"We suck, but you guys suck a lot worse." <--- This one in particular is insane.

"How's that for Double A?!" <--- This happened after Cotts gave up the hit to Barrett, but the guy saying it obviously got the quote wrong (should have been Triple A), but also didn't understand the context of the quote (Ozzie was refering to their Double A pitcher, not their catcher or our pitcher).

Cub fans are the KINGS of stupid talk. Everytime they open their mouths they say something even dumber than the previous time. And that's no simple task, folks.

Infallible
05-21-2006, 07:19 PM
When is Uribe going to be sent away? Sorry but Juan sucks.

RadioheadRocks
05-21-2006, 07:29 PM
When is Uribe going to be sent away? Sorry but Juan sucks.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening any time soon.

flo-B-flo
05-21-2006, 07:31 PM
As for Uribe, I don't fauly him completely. It wasn't the greatest throw, but I thought Paulie could have had that. I would have to see the replay again, but I think Paulie set up too soon and couldn't adjust to the outside throw. Yhis is what I saw. P KO has come up with worse throws. The took advantage. Ballgame.

chisoxmike
05-21-2006, 07:32 PM
When is Uribe going to be sent away? Sorry but Juan sucks.

:dumbass:

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 07:32 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening any time soon.

Pssst. Don't tell him not to hold his breath...

JohnBasedowYoda
05-21-2006, 07:35 PM
anyone know what happened when AJ hit the homerune on sunday's game? It looked like some words were exchanged but I couldn't see from where I was (sec 106)

Baby Fisk
05-21-2006, 07:41 PM
anyone know what happened when AJ hit the homerune on sunday's game? It looked like some words were exchanged but I couldn't see from where I was (sec 106)
Viewing it on TV, it was clear that A.J. glanced at Zambo while trotting between second and third. As he crossed home plate, Zambo started jawing at him because apparently Zambo is precious and doesn't like when home run hitters look at him while rounding the bases. The guy is an absolute clown and idiot.

Ozzie jumped out of the dugout when Zambo acted up. Baker followed promptly and they both had conversations with the umpires. Then the umpires went to the mound and spoke with Zambo. I imagine they told him to "stop acting like a ****ing tool and play the game." Even the Cubs infielders had to go over at the end of that inning and tell Zambo to cool it.

Id. Ee. Ot. :rolleyes:

chisoxmike
05-21-2006, 07:44 PM
A.J. and Joey Cora also mocked that little point to the sky Zambrano does when AJ was rounding 2nd and 3rd which promted Zambrano to act like a cry baby.

viagracat
05-21-2006, 07:46 PM
When is Uribe going to be sent away? Sorry but Juan sucks.

Damn! He made a bad play today and arguably cost us the game, but wow! You're brutal, bro. :(:

Crede made a bad error today too, should we send him to Charlotte too?:o:

JohnBasedowYoda
05-21-2006, 07:46 PM
Viewing it on TV, it was clear that A.J. glanced at Zambo while trotting between second and third. As he crossed home plate, Zambo started jawing at him because apparently Zambo is precious and doesn't like when home run hitters look at him while rounding the bases. The guy is an absolute clown and idiot.

Ozzie jumped out of the dugout when Zambo acted up. Baker followed promptly and they both had conversations with the umpires. Then the umpires went to the mound and spoke with Zambo. I imagine they told him to "stop acting like a ****ing tool and play the game." Even the Cubs infielders had to go over at the end of that inning and tell Zambo to cool it.

Id. Ee. Ot. :rolleyes:

My cous told me that when AJ crossed home he mocked Zamboner by doing the point to the sky thing. True or False?
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/pix/true_false.jpg


edit:Didn't see your post ChiSoxMike.

Cora got in on this? cool!

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 07:46 PM
A.J. and Joey Cora also mocked that little point to the sky Zambrano does when AJ was rounding 2nd and 3rd which promted Zambrano to act like a cry baby.

Big Baby must have said something pretty bad b/c Thome was going crazy. And Jim does not usually get upset about things. He was very animated, which leads me to believe Big Baby flat-out said or gestured that he was going head hunting.

oeo
05-21-2006, 07:47 PM
When is Uribe going to be sent away? Sorry but Juan sucks.

Pssst...It may not have been a good throw, but Paulie still could have gotten it.

Besides, Cotts blew it, not Uribe. He gave up 3 runs after that...the first one came after getting Barrett to an 0-2 count, then serving up a meatball.

chisoxmike
05-21-2006, 07:48 PM
Big Baby must have said something pretty bad b/c Thome was going crazy. And Jim does not usually get upset about things. He was very animated, which leads me to believe Big Baby flat-out said or gestured that he was going head hunting.

I heard Zambrano pointed to the Sox dugout signaling he was going to hit somebody. Maybe Thome?

Baby Fisk
05-21-2006, 07:48 PM
A.J. and Joey Cora also mocked that little point to the sky Zambrano does when AJ was rounding 2nd and 3rd which promted Zambrano to act like a cry baby.
This wasn't shown on TV, but that would have set him off for sure (since pretty much EVERYTHING sets him off).

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 07:50 PM
I heard Zambrano pointed to the Sox dugout signaling he was going to hit somebody. Maybe Thome?

Yea, who knows. We'll never know for certain. All that we do know is that Big Baby was yelling at AJ/Sox dugout as AJ was between 3rd and Home, Big Baby then pointed toward AJ as he crossed the plate, and AJ pointed to the sky as he touched the plate.

After that, Ozzie came out of the dugout and Dust Pan went out to babysit for a few minutes. I doubt we'll get many more details on it. The bottom line is Dust Pan probably made excuses for him b/c he refuses to hold any of his players accountable for their actions. It's a cycle that won't stop while he is "in charge" of that "baseball" team.

oeo
05-21-2006, 07:50 PM
A.J. and Joey Cora also mocked that little point to the sky Zambrano does when AJ was rounding 2nd and 3rd which promted Zambrano to act like a cry baby.

If he can't take it, he shouldn't be doing the same. It's alright for him to go absolutely nuts after a strikeout, but no one can do anything when they hit a homerun? This guy is a joke, just like that organization.

RadioheadRocks
05-21-2006, 07:53 PM
If he can't take it, he shouldn't be doing the same. It's alright for him to go absolutely nuts after a strikeout, but no one can do anything when they hit a homerun? This guy is a joke, just like that organization.

Exactly, and the worst thing about today is that bitchy little prick backed into the W while Contreras got a no-decision. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 07:53 PM
When is Uribe going to be sent away? Sorry but Juan sucks.

Prediction: You'll be gone long before Juan is.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-21-2006, 07:55 PM
The Cubs are punks. We have no business scheduling them.

Their best pitcher is an absolute headcase. Their manager has no control over him. Come to think of it, he has no control over anyone else on the team either.

The fights and the trash talk were inevitable. And we still have to play them three more times? Sheesh... time to haul the trash to the curb.

Give me six games with Milwaukee, please.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-21-2006, 07:55 PM
Prediction: You'll be gone long before Juan is.


Is he going to meet some horrible fate? I hope not.

BeviBall!
05-21-2006, 07:56 PM
Is he going to meet some horrible fate? I hope not.

Nah... just wandering the earth in search of a clue.

DickAllen72
05-21-2006, 08:03 PM
The Cubs are punks. We have no business scheduling them.

Their best pitcher is an absolute headcase. Their manager has no control over him. Come to think of it, he has no control over anyone else on the team either.

The fights and the trash talk were inevitable. And we still have to play them three more times? Sheesh... time to haul the trash to the curb.

Give me six games with Milwaukee, please.

I feel exactly as you do.

Screw this crosstown "classic" bull already. It's become nothing but a distraction from the pennant race.

The Sox, who are involved in a tight pennant race, may actually have a player or two suspended just because some punk from a team with nothing to lose physically assaulted our catcher with a sucker punch.

Screw the Cubs, their fans, and this stupid crosstown series.

Brian26
05-21-2006, 08:14 PM
Big Baby must have said something pretty bad b/c Thome was going crazy. And Jim does not usually get upset about things. He was very animated, which leads me to believe Big Baby flat-out said or gestured that he was going head hunting.

I don't know if they showed this on tv, but after AJ crossed the plate, Zambrano was going nuts...he was tugging on his left earlobe. I have no idea what the significance of that was, but it took four infielders to come over and calm him down. This clown should be locked up with a straight-jacket between starts. I'd hate to get into an incident with this guy on the road someday. He seems like a perfect candidate for road rage.

RadioheadRocks
05-21-2006, 08:24 PM
I don't know if they showed this on tv, but after AJ crossed the plate, Zambrano was going nuts...he was tugging on his left earlobe.

Maybe he was having a Carol Burnett moment!!! ROFLMFAO :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

unclegary
05-21-2006, 08:42 PM
Jones used to kill us when he was a Twinkie. I was happy as hell he was traded to the National League. The little weenie did it again. On another note.... maybe this is the year of the Tiger. But it is indeed a marathon and we have a helluva team. I have been a dark cloud most of my life but these guys are good and it is May. The standings are meaningless. Hi Chisoxgirl! :bandance:

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 08:56 PM
This And That:

Regarding my comment that it seems the Sox always win the first two games of the Cubs series then can’t seem to put them away for the sweep...here’s what the numbers say:

SIX TIMES since 2000 the Sox have won the first two games of a three game set with the Cubs yet could NOT get the sweep. 00 at home, 02 at home, 03 away, 03 at home, 05 away, 06 at home.
----------

In their last 12 games the Sox are 6-6. Now that wouldn’t be bad if they were playing a run of games with New York, Boston and say Detroit. Unfortunately the Sox have played the Angels, Twins, Devil Rays and Cubs. All teams with LOSING records. Now add in two blown games where the Sox had the lead in the 7th inning or later and lost (5/18 and 5/21) plus throw in the game where Vasquez had a 4-0 lead in the fifth inning yet lost (5/13) and you don’t have to be Jasper from ‘The Simpsons’ to say...’there’s trouble a brewing’

----------

Regarding the six blown games by the pitching staff where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later and got beat, here’s that breakdown:

7th inning lost lead (2) (4/24 starter - 5/18 starter)
8th inning lost lead (3) (4/5 bullpen - 4/8 bullpen - 5/21 bullpen)
9th inning lost lead (1) (5/5 bullpen)

----------

Oh if you were wondering, the Sox have only had one game where they trailed in the 7th inning or later and won. (5/3)

I'm hoping for whatever reason this is just a bad stretch against some mediocre (at best) opponents. I'm also hoping this tendency to 'give away' games don't bite the Sox on the ass big time in September when they may be fighting tooth and nail for a post season spot.

We'll see. Now comes the A's, a team that has had the Sox number. Who does Detroit play?

Lip

FarWestChicago
05-21-2006, 09:00 PM
I don't know if we're spoiled as Sox fans or our collective IQ is going down the toilet.How can the collective IQ around here go any lower? You've been around for a while. We have people who quit on the team in spring training ferrchrissakes. :rolleyes:

soxtalker
05-21-2006, 09:07 PM
The Cubs are punks. We have no business scheduling them.

Their best pitcher is an absolute headcase. Their manager has no control over him. Come to think of it, he has no control over anyone else on the team either.

The fights and the trash talk were inevitable. And we still have to play them three more times? Sheesh... time to haul the trash to the curb.

Give me six games with Milwaukee, please.



With all due respect, I beg to differ. I've been thinking about this ever since the end of the game. It may have been very good for us to play the Cubs. They aren't terribly good right now, but they obviously care a great deal about beating us, and the Sox care a great deal about beating the Cubs. We have a good defense, yet we made a bunch of errors in a high-pressure game. And then the relief pitching couldn't recover.

I don't mean to emphasize the negative, but we have weaknesses -- mainly, relief pitching. Each of the relief pitchers has had a problem from time to time. That's normal, and I'm not terribly worried about Jenks (or even Thornton at the moment, though it's early for him) right now. But Cotts and Politte have had enough meltdowns that it is becoming worrisome.

It's still early, and KW can make adjustments. It's better to learn this against the Cubs than the Detroit Tigers or Cleveland Indians.

FarWestChicago
05-21-2006, 09:10 PM
I think there's a lot to be upset about, because we gave that game away and should have taken the sweep. I hate this ho-hum attitude by some people around here.You're right. Polluting the board with the psychotic ravings of lunatics will make the Sox win more often. :rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-21-2006, 09:12 PM
It's still early, and KW can make adjustments. It's better to learn this against the Cubs than the Detroit Tigers or Cleveland Indians.
Yes, we learned a lot about getting sucker punched, listening to trash talk, and getting our ballplayers suspended playing the Cubs.

This knowledge ought to come in real handy playing Detroit and Cleveland.
:o:

FarWestChicago
05-21-2006, 09:17 PM
This And That:

Regarding my comment that it seems the Sox always win the first two games of the Cubs series then can’t seem to put them away for the sweep...here’s what the numbers say:

SIX TIMES since 2000 the Sox have won the first two games of a three game set with the Cubs yet could NOT get the sweep. 00 at home, 02 at home, 03 away, 03 at home, 05 away, 06 at home.
----------

In their last 12 games the Sox are 6-6. Now that wouldn’t be bad if they were playing a run of games with New York, Boston and say Detroit. Unfortunately the Sox have played the Angels, Twins, Devil Rays and Cubs. All teams with LOSING records. Now add in two blown games where the Sox had the lead in the 7th inning or later and lost (5/18 and 5/21) plus throw in the game where Vasquez had a 4-0 lead in the fifth inning yet lost (5/13) and you don’t have to be Jasper from ‘The Simpsons’ to say...’there’s trouble a brewing’

----------

Regarding the six blown games by the pitching staff where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later and got beat, here’s that breakdown:

7th inning lost lead (2) (4/24 starter - 5/18 starter)
8th inning lost lead (3) (4/5 bullpen - 4/8 bullpen - 5/21 bullpen)
9th inning lost lead (1) (5/5 bullpen)

----------

Oh if you were wondering, the Sox have only had one game where they trailed in the 7th inning or later and won. (5/3)

I'm hoping for whatever reason this is just a bad stretch against some mediocre (at best) opponents. I'm also hoping this tendency to 'give away' games don't bite the Sox on the ass big time in September when they may be fighting tooth and nail for a post season spot.

We'll see. Now comes the A's, a team that has had the Sox number. Who does Detroit play?

LipYES!! Lip is back. Well done, buddy!! :thumbsup:

:darkcloud:

:darkclouds:

This season is ****ing over, right Lip? :cool:

HotelWhiteSox
05-21-2006, 09:27 PM
The Cubs are punks. We have no business scheduling them.

Their best pitcher is an absolute headcase. Their manager has no control over him. Come to think of it, he has no control over anyone else on the team either.

The fights and the trash talk were inevitable. And we still have to play them three more times? Sheesh... time to haul the trash to the curb.

Give me six games with Milwaukee, please.

Not to mention that they are annoyed/jealous of the Sox doing well, it only hurts them, so they have nothing to lose if they would try to take our players out. This is what worries me, if they try anything with our pitchers hitting.

And I must say, AJ is a lot stronger than I. That was complete bull****, AJ hits a home run, Zambrano threatens the Sox dugout that he's going to hit someone, and the umps go out there and protect/shield Zambrano. The Score already holding AJ responsible because of his rep, though they don't care to mention Zambrano being a dumbass hypocrite madman, spin control on

thomas35forever
05-21-2006, 09:28 PM
Since we were knocked out of first place, it seems like we didn't gain much in this series.:angry:

FarWestChicago
05-21-2006, 09:30 PM
Since we were knocked out of first place, it seems like we didn't gain much in this series.:angry:I've got bad news for you. If the Murder City Kitties never lose another game this year the best we can hope for is the wild card. Sometimes life just sucks.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 09:31 PM
Since we were knocked out of first place, it seems like we didn't gain much in this series.:angry:

If you're upset about being 1 game out of 1st and having the 2nd best record in MLB on May 21st, how did you react to the sucktitude that was pre-2005?

chisoxmike
05-21-2006, 09:34 PM
Since we were knocked out of first place, it seems like we didn't gain much in this series.:angry:

That was just stupid.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 09:39 PM
West:

Sorry buddy and we were getting along so well the past year and a half.

:D:

Those are the issues, I call them like I see them. The bullpen is a major headache right now. Hopefully Kenny can do something to correct it. The Sox simply can not afford, in my opinion, to keep giving away games. Unlike some I don't think the Tigers are going anywhere and neither are the Yankees - Red Sox.

To me it's very important for this franchise to play off last year and keep the momentum going. Another post season trip would go a very long way towards turning this city back around.

Notice nowhere did I say ANYTHING about the season being over and done.

:rolleyes:
Lip

FarWestChicago
05-21-2006, 09:43 PM
Notice nowhere did I say ANYTHING about the season being over and done.Lip, please, I know what you really think. So does everybody else. It's totally obvious. You are fooling nobody. Let it out buddy!! The SEASON IS OVER!! You'll feel better. :cool:

TornLabrum
05-21-2006, 09:45 PM
I don't know if they showed this on tv, but after AJ crossed the plate, Zambrano was going nuts...he was tugging on his left earlobe. I have no idea what the significance of that was, but it took four infielders to come over and calm him down. This clown should be locked up with a straight-jacket between starts. I'd hate to get into an incident with this guy on the road someday. He seems like a perfect candidate for road rage.

He got the earlobe tug from Carol Burnett. He was saying hi to his grandma.

thomas35forever
05-21-2006, 09:48 PM
Since we were knocked out of first place, it seems like we didn't gain much in this series.:angry:
Sorry if I'm being a dark cloud here. It's just frustrating how the Tigers are giving me fits. Don't worry. We'll be back in first soon.

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 09:51 PM
I heard Zambrano pointed to the Sox dugout signaling he was going to hit somebody. Maybe Thome?

That is what DJ suggested. Anyone notice that WGN was very late in cutting to the Zambrano stuff because they kept showing the replay of AJ's home run?

You know, to me it's quite hypocritical of the Cubs and their fans to complain about any perception of the other team showing them up. Zambrano gets bent out of shape over AJ looking at him as he rounded the bases, yet this goof is the same guy engages in his own antics when he gets big outs. It reminds me of how the Cubs got bent out of shape in 2001 after Jose Valentin celebrated his big home run at Wrigley Field. This coming from the game goofs that loved Showboat Sammy's antics. In their mind, it's okay if their players showboat but God forbid if any opposition player even comes close to it.

beckett21
05-21-2006, 09:54 PM
In their mind, it's okay if their players showboat but God forbid if any opposition player even comes close to it.

They are the chosen ones. Didn't you get the memo?

Applem2
05-21-2006, 09:56 PM
In their last 12 games the Sox are 6-6. Now that wouldn’t be bad if they were playing a run of games with New York, Boston and say Detroit. Unfortunately the Sox have played the Angels, Twins, Devil Rays and Cubs. All teams with LOSING records.


Three of those losses are to Santana, Kazmir, and Zambrano-not bad pitchers. Great teams lose to bad clubs. The 1999 Yankees (98-64) lost 21 games to teams with 90 or more losses. The Yankees also lost 5 of 12 to the Sox (86 losses). The 2004 Red Sox (98 wins) lost 19 games to teams with 90 or more losses.

markopat
05-21-2006, 10:05 PM
Good to see Jose back and pitching well.

Amen to that JJAV! AMEN!

beckett21
05-21-2006, 10:07 PM
Three of those losses are to Santana, Kazmir, and Zambrano-not bad pitchers. Great teams lose to bad clubs. The 1999 Yankees (98-64) lost 21 games to teams with 90 or more losses. The Yankees also lost 5 of 12 to the Sox (86 losses). The 2004 Red Sox (98 wins) lost 19 games to teams with 90 or more losses.
Your logic is not welcome here.

Go beat your head on a wall for an hour instead; you'll feel better. :D:

longshot7
05-21-2006, 10:36 PM
A crappy loss, but again, no reason to jump off a bridge.

It's important to note though - Uribe's error only caused the tying run to score. Cotts gave up the 2-run homer. And while Neal has been stellar this year, this was hard to take considering how the rest of the pen has been struggling. Two good moves and the bullpen will be back in shape.

We won the series. That's good.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 10:40 PM
Didn't Uribe's error make it 4-3 with the Sox in the lead?

Lip

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 10:42 PM
Didn't Uribe's error make it 4-3 with the Sox in the lead?

Lip

Yep and it technically was not an error. The Cub was left with a runner on 1st and 2 outs. Barrett's triple tied it and the Frenchie's home run gave them the lead.

beckett21
05-21-2006, 10:42 PM
Didn't Uribe's error make it 4-3 with the Sox in the lead?

Lip

Yes.

jehosaphat
05-21-2006, 10:49 PM
Didn't Uribe's error make it 4-3 with the Sox in the lead?

Lip

Yes. If we would have got the double play we would have been out of the inning, but we didn't and then Jones came up and hit the home run and the party was over.

As Dandy Don used to say - If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas.

Today was a miserable loss. But, be on the bright side, Jose looked shartp and we don't have the Cubs' team, which is pretty damn bad and pretty damn classless. We'll bounce back, they are really looking at a lost year and need to do some drastic things over the next several years to turn their franchise around.

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 10:52 PM
Didn't Uribe's error make it 4-3 with the Sox in the lead?

Lip

Technically, it was not an error becuase you can't assume the double play.

shaunburnette
05-21-2006, 10:55 PM
And while Neal has been stellar this year

I don't care if his ERA looks good. I don't think he has been stellar.

QCIASOXFAN
05-21-2006, 10:55 PM
Well 2 of 3 was nice but now I am actually really looking forward to the next series at Pigley field. I looked at this series as not a big deal and would rather be playing someone important at first, but I have since changed my mind and am ready to do it all over again. Can I put in a future bet somewhere that an incident will take place involving A.J. next series???

Viva Medias B's
05-21-2006, 10:59 PM
Can I put in a future bet somewhere that an incident will take place involving A.J. next series???

I think AJ will get a standing ovation from the Wrigley faithful.

Jjav829
05-21-2006, 11:03 PM
Viewing it on TV, it was clear that A.J. glanced at Zambo while trotting between second and third. As he crossed home plate, Zambo started jawing at him because apparently Zambo is precious and doesn't like when home run hitters look at him while rounding the bases. The guy is an absolute clown and idiot.

Ozzie jumped out of the dugout when Zambo acted up. Baker followed promptly and they both had conversations with the umpires. Then the umpires went to the mound and spoke with Zambo. I imagine they told him to "stop acting like a ****ing tool and play the game." Even the Cubs infielders had to go over at the end of that inning and tell Zambo to cool it.

Id. Ee. Ot. :rolleyes:

Zambozo is a hypocrite. He'll stand out there and pump his fist for meaningless strikeouts and scream whatever psychotic thoughts are floating in his mind. But if another player dares to do anything that would show him up, then Zambozo will get all upset.

Aside from that, this guy is all talk and no action. The only thing he knows how to do is hit batters after he gives up a home run. I'd like to see what happens if a guy charges the mound on Zamboso. Zambozo would probably get Mabry'ed.

Jjav829
05-21-2006, 11:06 PM
Sorry if I'm being a dark cloud here. It's just frustrating how the Tigers are giving me fits. Don't worry. We'll be back in first soon.

Who cares if we are or aren't. It's May 21st! The cream always rises to the top. The Tigers won't be this good all year long.

oeo
05-21-2006, 11:12 PM
Yes. If we would have got the double play we would have been out of the inning, but we didn't and then Jones came up and hit the home run and the party was over.

As Dandy Don used to say - If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas.

Today was a miserable loss. But, be on the bright side, Jose looked shartp and we don't have the Cubs' team, which is pretty damn bad and pretty damn classless. We'll bounce back, they are really looking at a lost year and need to do some drastic things over the next several years to turn their franchise around.

OR...Cotts could have gotten the final out, instead of serving up an 0-2 meatball. There was no reason that Cotts still couldn't have gotten out of that inning with a 4-3 lead. And even after Barrett's triple, a 4-4 tie. Uribe may have given them an extra out, but Cotts just kept serving them up.

Brian26
05-21-2006, 11:13 PM
Technically, it was not an error becuase you can't assume the double play.

That is correct. No error was charged.

I was just going through my scorebook, finishing the totals and checking it against the official box score. Here's something that I found interesting (stick with me on this):

Contreras was charged with four earned runs (including the batter that came up to hit (and would eventually score) after Jose was removed from the game).

Contreras was taken out one batter before the the botched double play that would have ended the inning. So, when Contreras left, he had already given up two runs earlier in the game, and he was responsible for the runners on first and third (with one out). The ball was hit to Iguchi, there was a forice at 2nd, runner was safe at first. The runner forced at second (Cedeno) was Contreras' responsibility. The batter (Walker) was safe at first on the fielder's choice and was Cotts' responsibility. Walker would eventually come around to score on the triple, and Contreras was charged with an earned run for Walker. Unless I'm making a mistake, I believe that is the correct interpretation of what happened. So, is the official scorer ruling that Walker becomes the responsibility of Contreras simply because he switched places at first base with Cedeno (Even though an out was recorded on the play)? Actually it makes sense. Walker reached on a fielder's choice, and there's no reason Contreras shouldn't be responsible since there were two runners on base when he left. It's seems like that could go either way though. Cotts was let off the hook a bit by only being charged with two runs instead of three. It's one of those fun scoring nuances that occasionally come up.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 11:15 PM
That is correct. No error was charged.

I was just going through my scorebook, finishing the totals and checking it against the official box score. Here's something that I found interesting (stick with me on this):

Contreras was charged with four earned runs (including the batter that came up to hit (and would eventually score) after Jose was removed from the game).

Contreras was taken out one batter before the the botched double play that would have ended the inning. So, when Contreras left, he had already given up two runs earlier in the game, and he was responsible for the runners on first and third (with one out). The ball was hit to Iguchi, there was a forice at 2nd, runner was safe at first. The runner forced at second (Cedeno) was Contreras' responsibility. The batter (Walker) was safe at first on the fielder's choice and was Cotts' responsibility. Walker would eventually come around to score on the triple, and Contreras was charged with an earned run for Walker. Unless I'm making a mistake, I believe that is the correct interpretation of what happened. So, is the official scorer ruling that Walker becomes the responsibility of Contreras simply because he switched places at first base with Cedeno (Even though an out was recorded on the play). Actually it makes sense. Walker reached on a fielder's choice, and there's no reason Contreras shouldn't be responsible since there were two runners on base when he left. It's seems like that could go either way though. Cotts was let off the hook a bit by only being charged with two runs instead of three. It's one of those fun scoring nuances that occasionally come up.

Should be three runs and will probably be changed tomorrow.

CLR01
05-21-2006, 11:16 PM
The cream always rises to the top.

Apparently we are not the cream. 3 best record and FALLING.:whiner::whiner::whiner:


The Tigers won't be this good all year long.



TigerClaw would disagree with you.

Brian26
05-21-2006, 11:17 PM
Should be three runs and will probably be changed tomorrow.

LOL!

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 11:22 PM
LOL!

Seriously, it should be 3 runs. Unless I've completely missed something, which could be the case. But AFAIK, whenever this has happened before, the reliever gets charged.

Brian26
05-21-2006, 11:25 PM
Seriously, it should be 3 runs. Unless I've completely missed something, which could be the case. But AFAIK, whenever this has happened before, the reliever gets charged.

No- I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm pretty anal when it comes to making my scorebook totals work at the end of the day, and if you knew how much time I spent this evening trying to justify how the four earned runs for Jose could be correct, you'd laugh too. I'll take solice in knowing someone else caught the mistake...unless we're both missing something here. To summarize: Cotts pitched to Walker. Walker got on base via a fielder's choice. Walker ended up scoring, but his run was charged to Contreras....I'm not sure that makes sense.

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 11:27 PM
No- I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm pretty anal when it comes to making my scorebook totals work at the end of the day, and if you knew how much time I spent this evening trying to justify how the four earned runs for Jose could be correct, you'd laugh too. I'll take solice in knowing someone else caught the mistake too...unless we're both missing something here. To summarize: Cotts pitched to Walker. Walker got on base via a fielder's choice. Walker ended up scoring, but his run was charged to Contreras....I'm not sure that makes sense.

Yea we talked about it in the game thread. I am surprised it has not changed yet, but it just may take the official scorer making the change tomorrow before the game.

Johnny Mostil
05-21-2006, 11:40 PM
Yea we talked about it in the game thread. I am surprised it has not changed yet, but it just may take the official scorer making the change tomorrow before the game.

I found this note to 10.18 (g):


When pitchers are changed during an inning, the relief pitcher shall not be charged with any run (earned or unearned) scored by a runner who was on base at the time he entered the game, nor for runs scored by any runner who reaches base on a fielder's choice which puts out a runner left on base by the preceding pitcher.


So Cedeno singles and is Contreras's runner. Cotts enters, and Cedeno is forced by Walker. But, because Walker "reache[d] base on a fielder's choice which puts out a runner left on base by the preceding pitcher," i.e., Cedeno, Walker becomes Contreras's runner.

IronFisk
05-22-2006, 12:29 AM
That game really sucked! Can't remember the last time I got that worked-up. That 8th inning was straight from hell. Moving on...

ilsox7
05-22-2006, 12:32 AM
I found this note to 10.18 (g):



So Cedeno singles and is Contreras's runner. Cotts enters, and Cedeno is forced by Walker. But, because Walker "reache[d] base on a fielder's choice which puts out a runner left on base by the preceding pitcher," i.e., Cedeno, Walker becomes Contreras's runner.

Wow. I feel like an idiot. How did I miss this all of these years? I swear it's never been done this way, but I guess I am wrong. Just surprised b/c these are the inane things I pay attention to. Oh well!

TheOldRoman
05-22-2006, 12:46 AM
Technically, it was not an error becuase you can't assume the double play.
It should have been an error. When the first out is recorded, you CAN assume the double play.

ilsox7
05-22-2006, 01:02 AM
It should have been an error. When the first out is recorded, you CAN assume the double play.

Nope. You can never assume a double play. The only way it's an error is if the runner advances to 2nd or beyond b/c of the poor throw. Otherwise, no erroe can be given.

Johnny Mostil
05-22-2006, 01:15 AM
Nope. You can never assume a double play. The only way it's an error is if the runner advances to 2nd or beyond b/c of the poor throw. Otherwise, no erroe can be given.

Correct. 10.14 (c):


No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild.


But note also (albeit not applicable here):


When a fielder muffs a thrown ball which, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.


Incidentally, on earlier point, section 10.18 has some examples I don't think I've actually ever seen on sorting out who is charged or not with earned runs. (See http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp.)

HotelWhiteSox
05-22-2006, 02:20 AM
MLB.com is starting to piss me off. Headline, "Fists don't fly, but White Sox cry as Cubs rally". It was a ****ty way to lose, but the Sox have bigger fish to fry then some AAA team who just had their World Series (interleague is the closest they'll ever get)

Grzegorz
05-22-2006, 04:57 AM
Those are the issues, I call them like I see them. The bullpen is a major headache right now. Hopefully Kenny can do something to correct it. The Sox simply can not afford, in my opinion, to keep giving away games. Unlike some I don't think the Tigers are going anywhere and neither are the Yankees - Red Sox.

Correct; great analysis...

A few things:
*Uribe's throw, while not being very good should have been handled by Konerko.
*Anderson should have been in center field in the eight inning; he very well may have
caught the Barrett triple
*Politte is really scuffling; the pen needs help. Is Nelson the answer? Maybe not as an
arm but as a mentor to the younger relievers?
*Overall the defense seems to have slipped a bit this year

Lets hope the team turns it around starting with Oakland. We need solid starting pitching; how about it Jon?

Wsoxmike59
05-22-2006, 06:42 AM
Correct; great analysis...

A few things:
*Uribe's throw, while not being very good should have been handled by Konerko.
*Anderson should have been in center field in the eight inning; he very well may have
caught the Barrett triple


You are 100% correct Grzegorz. Ozzie blew this game for us by not putting in the "prevent' defense in the 8th inning.

I even said to Mrs. Wsoxmick59 during the game, after Mackowiack's double, "now put Brian Anderson in CF for defense, and for good measure I'd put Gload on 1B", it seemed like Konerko was having a tough day in the field too.

kwolf68
05-22-2006, 10:47 AM
Anyone concerned that Cotts throws the same speed over and over again. I can't recall him throwing anything off speed. Does he have a change-up? Curve? Something ... it seems if you can pin his location you can adjust to the speed, because it never seems to vary.

I could be wrong, but he gave up 0-2 cheese to the punk Barrett and then Jones just laid on the fastball and went with it to left.

My wife said she hasn't seen me this worked up over a regular season game in a long time....This one yesterday hurt, because I feel like we gave them the game. They are a vastly inferior team to the Sox and we should have won....A fielding blunder and 2 meatballs later and its over.

But I am worried about our relief. I think it will get going, but its not been good.

Chez
05-22-2006, 11:40 AM
[quote=Grzegorz]Correct; great analysis...

A few things:
*Uribe's throw, while not being very good should have been handled by Konerko.
*Anderson should have been in center field in the eight inning; he very well may have
caught the Barrett triple

Totally agree. I thought I was the only one who thought Konerko should have caught the ball! He stretched straight out rather than shifting to stretch to the outfield side. And I also was surprised to not see Anderson come in to center with Mackowiak moving to left -- Ozzie did this as recently as Friday! We gift-wrapped it for them; but give the Cubs credit -- they took advantage of the gifts.

SBSoxFan
05-22-2006, 02:37 PM
Correct. 10.14 (c):



But note also (albeit not applicable here):



Incidentally, on earlier point, section 10.18 has some examples I don't think I've actually ever seen on sorting out who is charged or not with earned runs. (See http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp.)
What the carp's the difference? Is it up to the official scorer to decide if it was a wild throw or a muffed catch? Anyway, it's gotta be the dumbest rule in baseball. You're no longer assuming a double play if the out has already been made at second base, and the only reason a run scored, a runner is on first base, and the inning isn't over is because of a wild throw. That sure sounds like an error to me!

I guess I'm just pissed because not only did the Sox blow another game late, but Jose got charged with 4 earned runs. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

Infallible
05-22-2006, 05:54 PM
Prediction: You'll be gone long before Juan is.
I've been here longer than you, not as much as a post whore, but nevertheless what you wrote was lame.
Nah... just wandering the earth in search of a clue.

Because I think Uribe is over rated? The only clue that needs to be taken is the idea that others may not share the same opinion as yourself. If you're unable to deal with that, then obviously you have a deeper seated malfunction. A career .259 hitter isn't what I'd consider stellar performance.

Brian26
05-22-2006, 08:45 PM
Wow. I feel like an idiot. How did I miss this all of these years? I swear it's never been done this way, but I guess I am wrong. Just surprised b/c these are the inane things I pay attention to. Oh well!

Good job by Johnny Mostil on looking this info up.

Ilsox- I was thinking about it more today, and it really does make sense. If Iguchi chose to throw to first and get Walker instead of throwing to second to force Cedeno, Cedeno would still be on base (and the property of Contreras) and would have scored. So, on a fielder's choice, I think it makes a lot of sense to credit the earned run to Contreras.

I'm with you though. I enjoy understanding the subtleties of baseball like this. It's what makes it such a great game.