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illini81887
05-19-2006, 08:02 PM
7-0 Reds

illini81887
05-19-2006, 08:03 PM
Bonderman was all over place tonight, clincher was bases clearing triple by brandon phillips and then throwing error which let brandon score

MrRoboto83
05-19-2006, 08:12 PM
Reds are an offensive juggernaut, reminds me of the 2000 White Sox a little.

JUribe1989
05-19-2006, 08:15 PM
There's the Tigers I remember!

MrRoboto83
05-19-2006, 08:17 PM
There's the Tigers I remember!

true

illini81887
05-19-2006, 08:26 PM
8-3 reds top 5th

HotelWhiteSox
05-19-2006, 08:33 PM
I had a feeling the Reds would come to play, probably looked like a layup for the Tigers but things don't always happen as they're supposed to in baseball

illini81887
05-19-2006, 08:39 PM
9-3 reds bot 5th

gobears1987
05-19-2006, 09:44 PM
Reds are an offensive juggernaut, reminds me of the 2000 White Sox a little.I can see them getting on the wildcard too. I also expect they would be out quickly in the playoffs due to a lack of pitching.

HomeFish
05-19-2006, 09:54 PM
Reds win.

:bandance:

SABRSox
05-19-2006, 10:55 PM
:supernana:http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4364&d=1147671384:supernana:

I want Mags back
05-19-2006, 11:14 PM
First Place. Yes!!!!!!!!

SOXSINCE'70
05-19-2006, 11:21 PM
First Place. Yes!!!!!!!!

I thought the Sox and Tiggers were tied for 1st.:o:

SOXSINCE'70
05-19-2006, 11:23 PM
they would be out quickly in the playoffs due to a lack of pitching.

Who thought the 1990 Reds would sweep the A's??
I made at least $200.00 from friends who believed the A's
would sweep the series.They were right,they just picked
the wrong team.

illini81887
05-20-2006, 09:02 PM
grand slam for Ken griffey jr. reds up 6-5

itsnotrequired
05-20-2006, 09:20 PM
grand slam for Ken griffey jr. reds up 6-5

I luuuuv crooked numbers.

:cool:

illini81887
05-20-2006, 09:50 PM
ganderson ties it up in 9th inning

mccoydp
05-20-2006, 09:50 PM
****ing Tigers just tied it up.

Viva Medias B's
05-20-2006, 09:50 PM
Damn Reds! Granderson HR ties the game at 6!

:angry:

lumpyspun
05-20-2006, 09:53 PM
wow, he was down to his last two bullets and then he goes opposite field...he didn't start the game either...unreal.

RadioheadRocks
05-20-2006, 09:54 PM
... and they go to extras...

Trav
05-20-2006, 10:04 PM
Amazing. Did you see that little girl they just showed when he hit it? How cute is that.

The Tigers remind me of a certain team....

Mags is a beast. I am happy someone besides us is good in the central. I hope they can stay good the entire year and maybe someone from the central can win the WC.

mccoydp
05-20-2006, 10:08 PM
The Reds are about to blow this game. ****ers.

Viva Medias B's
05-20-2006, 10:08 PM
Reds in trouble, Kitties on 1st and 2nd with 1 out.

Viva Medias B's
05-20-2006, 10:10 PM
2 out, 2nd and 3rd.

illini81887
05-20-2006, 10:11 PM
tigers win

mccoydp
05-20-2006, 10:12 PM
Damn Tigers.

Viva Medias B's
05-20-2006, 10:12 PM
tigers win






Crap. Damn you Felipe "That was my Jose Valentin fielding impression" Lopez.

CHISOXFAN13
05-20-2006, 10:14 PM
Crap. Damn you Felipe "That was my Jose Valentin fielding impression" Lopez.

The Indians lose to the Pirates so all is not lost.

elrod
05-20-2006, 10:14 PM
Botched throw by Lopez and the Tigers win. Damn. That would've really hurt the Tigers if they blew a 5-1 lead in the 7th.

oeo
05-20-2006, 10:22 PM
Couple of things from this game:
1. The Reds are NOT a playoff team, I think they just put an exclamation point on that tonight.

2. Tigers pitching is not invincible, and now I know for a fact that the Sox are better than them.

buehrle4cy05
05-20-2006, 10:46 PM
A good test as to how good Detroit really is will come from May 29-June 11. In order:
4 at home vs. NYY
3 at home vs. Boston
3 @ White Sox
3 @ Toronto

Later in the month they get St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Houston. If they can get through June and are still keeping pace with the Sox, then I'll believe that we have a serious division race on our hands. If they crumble against the better AL teams, they there nothing but another team that got off to a hot start because they played poor/mediocre teams.

oeo
05-20-2006, 10:50 PM
A good test as to how good Detroit really is will come from May 29-June 11. In order:
4 at home vs. NYY
3 at home vs. Boston
3 @ White Sox
3 @ Toronto

Later in the month they get St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Houston. If they can get through June and are still keeping pace with the Sox, then I'll believe that we have a serious division race on our hands. If they crumble against the better AL teams, they there nothing but another team that got off to a hot start because they played poor/mediocre teams.
I'm still not sold on them. They've had trouble with every team better than .500 that they've played. Sure they're knocking around the sub-.500 teams, but I want to see them knock around some of the better teams.

Something we haven't done is knock around those bad teams, and hopefully we can turn that around; we could be up 4-5 games right now.

Trav
05-20-2006, 10:59 PM
I'm still not sold on them. They've had trouble with every team better than .500 that they've played. Sure they're knocking around the sub-.500 teams, but I want to see them knock around some of the better teams.

Something we haven't done is knock around those bad teams, and hopefully we can turn that around; we could be up 4-5 games right now.

If teams can beat the teams they are supposed to, then most of the time they do alright. The toughest thing to do is beat the teams they should. Ask the last years Indians, BoSox and NYY.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 10:04 PM
Well against three of the worst teams in baseball Detroit is 7-0. The Sox 10-7.

Lip

oeo
05-21-2006, 10:07 PM
Well against three of the worst teams in baseball Detroit is 7-0. The Sox 10-7.

Lip

With a lot of guys playing over their heads. And they still have to beat the good teams, as well. Something they've shown they have had trouble with and until they do, I'm not sold that they're a serious contender.

FarWestChicago
05-21-2006, 10:20 PM
Well against three of the worst teams in baseball Detroit is 7-0. The Sox 10-7.

LipThat's it, Lip. You are the Master. Cash it in. The Tigers are the greatest team is sports history. The Sox are toast!!

:darkcloud:

:darkclouds:

Johnny Mostil
05-21-2006, 10:31 PM
That's it, Lip. You are the Master. Cash it in. The Tigers are the greatest team is sports history. The Sox are toast!!


Damn straight, FWC! Why, the Tigers are on pace to win 109 games--more than any other Tiger (or Sox!) team in history! And I don't think this Sox team is going to win 109 games (or, to be really honest, even 100). But, crazy ole me, I hope they still finish the season. Because I (and I'm guessing you, too) really don't think the Tigers will win 109 (or even 100) . . .

FarWestChicago
05-21-2006, 10:34 PM
Damn straight, FWC! Why, the Tigers are on pace to win 109 games--more than any other Tiger (or Sox!) team in history! And I don't think this Sox team is going to win 109 games (or, to be really honest, even 100). But, crazy ole me, I hope they still finish the season. Because I (and I'm guessing you, too) really don't think the Tigers will win 109 (or even 100) . . .You know Lip. If KC goes on a three game tear or the Sox lose two in a row the season is over. :redneck

soxwon
05-21-2006, 10:45 PM
A good test as to how good Detroit really is will come from May 29-June 11. In order:
4 at home vs. NYY
3 at home vs. Boston
3 @ White Sox
3 @ Toronto

Later in the month they get St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Houston. If they can get through June and are still keeping pace with the Sox, then I'll believe that we have a serious division race on our hands. If they crumble against the better AL teams, they there nothing but another team that got off to a hot start because they played poor/mediocre teams.\\uhh we got oak-tor-clev-tex-det-clev thru 11\
pretty similar schedules
but we will win out

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 10:48 PM
OEO:

I don't think the pitching staff is playing 'over their heads.' Time will tell.

You can just as easily say, with some numbers to back it up, that Garland, Politte and Cotts played over their heads last season and are now returning to Earth.

At this point no one knows if Detroit's for real. I can only say they have a very solid lineup and the pitching is throwing even better then the Sox did last season. The Sox staff held up in 05...why can't Detroit's?

All the more reason for Kenny to solve this bullpen issue and solidify all phases of the club. This could be a very tight race in the end.

Johnny:

It doesn't matter how many games Detroit does or does not win. Neither does it matter how many the Sox win. The fact is it looks like the divisional race is going to be close. It could be decided by a few games. The only number that matters is the number that gets you into the post-season. That number figures to be in the mid 90's. I don't want to rely on using the wild card as a safety net. Not with the Red Sox - Yankees around.

It was S.I. earlier this season that had a story on why the A.L. is so much better then the N.L. In it they stated that four times a team has won 95 games or more and failed to advance in the wild card era. All of those clubs were from the A.L. I don't want the Sox to be the 5th.

Lip

santo=dorf
05-21-2006, 10:49 PM
Well against three of the worst teams in baseball Detroit is 7-0. The Sox 10-7.

Lip
So essentially you're saying Detroit is padding its record against crap teams, can't beat the good teams like us, and they're a whopping 1 game ahead of us.

What's the big deal?

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 10:53 PM
OEO:

I don't think the pitching staff is playing 'over their heads.' Time will tell.

You can just as easily say, with some numbers to back it up, that Garland, Politte and Cotts played over their heads last season and are now returning to Earth.

At this point no one knows if Detroit's for real. I can only say they have a very solid lineup and the pitching is throwing even better then the Sox did last season. The Sox staff held up in 05...why can't Detroit's?



Take a look at 60% of their starting rotation. Maroth I believe it is currently has an ERA 2.5 runs better than his career ERA. Robertson (I think) is about 1.5 runs better than his career average. And Rogers has fallen off the earth the last couple of years after the All-Star Break.

I know we had this discussion before, but no team in MLB is perfect right now. But IMO we have the least problems of any team and a GM that will do what he can to fix said problem. And he has the necessary pices to go find a solution, which leads me to believe he will.

Johnny Mostil
05-21-2006, 10:58 PM
It doesn't matter how many games Detroit does or does not win. Neither does it matter how many the Sox win.

The hell it doesn't! The Sox have to win at least one more game than Detroit over the course of a 162-game season, or, failing that, at least one more game than any other second-place finisher in the league, no? I'm just not ready to say if they're going to do that yet--or, more to the point, to fret all that much about it just yet . . .

beckett21
05-21-2006, 10:59 PM
OEO:

I don't think the pitching staff is playing 'over their heads.' Time will tell....

...
Lip

I'd say a team ERA of 3.26 would qualify as 'playing over their heads'.

I for one would be very surprised if they can continue that pace. Actually, it's impossible because they won't.

Johnny Mostil
05-21-2006, 10:59 PM
So essentially you're saying Detroit is padding its record against crap teams, can't beat the good teams like us, and they're a whopping 1 game ahead of us.

What's the big deal?

Yeah, it's funny how that 3-0 against Detroit kind of drops out of discussion, isn't it? Maybe Detroit can take some of those back. Maybe they can't.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 11:00 PM
Ilsox:

I hope your right. The 'wild card' in all this (no pun intended) is what moves Detroit makes to counter what the Sox may do or what preemptive moves they make.

I'm assuming the Sox are pretty much played out in salary room. I don't know how high Illitch is willing to go. I know he said when he signed Ordonez that he 'overpaid' but would continue to overpay if it meant getting a winning season.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 11:02 PM
Johnny:

That's fine. Point taken. I'm just hoping these games the Sox have given away aren't crucial in the end.

Lip

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 11:03 PM
Dorf:

I'm not saying that..I'm saying that I wish the Sox had padded their record more against teams that are pretty bad. Even Ozzie said they aren't playing well against 'bad' teams.

So far Detroit hasn't seemed to have that 'problem.' Maybe they will down the road.

Lip

Johnny Mostil
05-21-2006, 11:04 PM
Johnny:

That's fine. Point taken. I'm just hoping these games the Sox have given away aren't crucial in the end.

Lip

Agreed and amen, brother. But at this point, I'm more worried over what chicken**** might develop in the next flubbies series--and how that could affect the Sox--than I am about the Tiggers . . .

ilsox7
05-21-2006, 11:08 PM
Ilsox:

I hope your right. The 'wild card' in all this (no pun intended) is what moves Detroit makes to counter what the Sox may do or what preemptive moves they make.

I'm assuming the Sox are pretty much played out in salary room. I don't know how high Illitch is willing to go. I know he said when he signed Ordonez that he 'overpaid' but would continue to overpay if it meant getting a winning season.

Lip

I read or heard recently (I forget where) that Detroit is willing to spend at the deadline if they are positioned well. But I think given what the needs of the Sox are (assuming no injuries) the biggest obstacle for KW will be the price in terms of prospects and not salary. Really, all KW is looking for is a good bullpen guy. Good ones are hard to find, but he is not looking for a closer, so the price in terms of salary won't be too much.

Hopefully Nelson proves to be a good pick-up and we can find one more set-up guy out there to bump everyone down a spot in the bullpen. If Thornton (who has looked improved lately) and Cliff are your last two out of the pen, you're in pretty good shape IMO.

Contrast that with Detroit, who, given the likely situation that at least 1 of those 3 starters returns to historic averages will be looking for a starting pitcher or two at the deadline. Good luck there! That's the type of situation where teams generally mortgage their future for 2 months of service.

Finally, it's May 21st. Hell, in 6 weeks, we may be rooting for Detroit to beat the Indians b/c the teams have changed places. It's just too early to worry about anyone but ourselves. And while I hate pissing games away, it happens to every team throughout the year. What I think is most impressive is that I can count on one hand the number of games the Sox have had no chance in this year. When you've got a legitimate chance to wn 90% of the games you play, you're going to have a good season.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2006, 11:46 PM
Ilsox says: "When you've got a legitimate chance to wn 90% of the games you play, you're going to have a good season."

That is a very good point. It sure beats the late 60's or late 70's or late 80's or late 90's (what is it with the Sox and end parts of decades??)

Lip

Trav
05-21-2006, 11:52 PM
Take a look at 60% of their starting rotation. Maroth I believe it is currently has an ERA 2.5 runs better than his career ERA. Robertson (I think) is about 1.5 runs better than his career average. And Rogers has fallen off the earth the last couple of years after the All-Star Break.

I know we had this discussion before, but no team in MLB is perfect right now. But IMO we have the least problems of any team and a GM that will do what he can to fix said problem. And he has the necessary pices to go find a solution, which leads me to believe he will.

Those pitchers you mentioned are young and have expectations to be solid starters for years to come, even before this year. It could be that they are finally coming into their own.

I think this discussion is great because we are talking about teams in the Central. I think three of the top managers in the AL are in the Central this year. Bad news for the Sox. Good news for baseball.

Johnny Mostil
05-21-2006, 11:52 PM
what is it with the Sox and end parts of decades??

Good question that raises something else I worry about (probably too much given my ignorance of it): when does the CBA expire? This year?

ilsox7
05-22-2006, 12:03 AM
Those pitchers you mentioned are young and have expectations to be solid starters for years to come, even before this year. It could be that they are finally coming into their own.

I think this discussion is great because we are talking about teams in the Central. I think three of the top managers in the AL are in the Central this year. Bad news for the Sox. Good news for baseball.
Maroth is 28 and while expectations may be that he turn into a good pitcher, pitching 2.5 runs better than your career ERA is unlikely to continue long-term.

Robertson is also 28 and pitching 1.5+ runs better than his ERA.

Rogers is 41 and has had an ERA of 4.80 after the All-Star Break the last 3 years, which was a full run higher than his ERA before the break in those years.

I am not saying the Tigers are a sham or will fall flat on their faces. I am just saying that they've got 3 pretty big question marks in their rotation going forward this season, and it's be unlikely if all 3 continue to pitch as well as they have. Even the Sox last year lost El Duque to the DL, had a bad Contreras first half before the one we currently know showed up, and had a bit of a drop-off with Garland in the 2nd half.

Right now, the only starter on the Tigers with an ERA above 3.18 is Bonderman. I will walk to Detroit if they end the year with 4 starters having an ERA under 3.00.

oeo
05-22-2006, 12:05 AM
OEO:

I don't think the pitching staff is playing 'over their heads.' Time will tell.

You can just as easily say, with some numbers to back it up, that Garland, Politte and Cotts played over their heads last season and are now returning to Earth.

At this point no one knows if Detroit's for real. I can only say they have a very solid lineup and the pitching is throwing even better then the Sox did last season. The Sox staff held up in 05...why can't Detroit's?

All the more reason for Kenny to solve this bullpen issue and solidify all phases of the club. This could be a very tight race in the end.
I've never said they didn't. To me, the jury is still out on Garland, I hope he can continue what he did in Tampa Bay. Cotts has been pretty good, outside of a few bad outings like tonight. As for Politte, I can tell he had a career year last year, and I really don't want to see him much more.

Rogers has historically had a bad second half. Bonderman is very inconsistant...he can have a dominant game, and then come back his next start and get lit up. Maroth and Robertson are, indeed, pitching over their heads. I'd say at their age, they're not just finally "getting it together". Time will tell, and I've got a feeling it's not going to be good for the Tigers. And Verlander is young, you don't know how long it's going to last. Guys will learn how to hit him sooner or later, and he may tire down the stretch.

I hate the comparision between this team and the 2005 Sox. There's no comparison, and I think they will fade away.

By the way, I don't like this 7-0 vs. 10-7 argument. When the Tigers have played 17 games against the worst teams, there's nothing that says they won't be 10-7 or worse. It's May, I have faith that the Sox will turn it around, but will the Tigers be able to keep up a perfect winning percentage? I think not.

NSSoxFan
05-22-2006, 12:10 AM
OK, so from this thread I have concluded that the 2005 White Sox = 2006 Tigers.

Some of you are lunatics.

Lip Man 1
05-22-2006, 01:22 PM
Johnny:

The agreement expires after this season.

Lip