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dougs78
02-01-2002, 04:50 PM
My buddy who works for Fox Sports Chicago just called and told me that the Sox have signed Kenny Lofton to a 1 year deal. I'm not really sure what to make of this, but I guess we'll find out.

danman31
02-01-2002, 04:55 PM
People are gonna hate this, but I think this is a quality move. What happened to no free agents?

czalgosz
02-01-2002, 04:56 PM
If that's true, then KW just undid all the good that he did by getting rid of Singleton. At this point in his career, Lofton is even more worthless than Singleton.

dougs78
02-01-2002, 05:00 PM
Yeah, I really don't get this move. My buddy says he had just finished interviewing Rowand who sounded very excited to be the full time CF. He then walked out to the truck and was handed the press release. The only reason I can see for this is that Lofton can bat leadoff (or at least USED TO). I hope he has a great year for us, but if cleveland thinks they'd rather have brady anderson than Lofton, then I can't see how we have a spot for him. It sort of mystifies me. I'm guessing its a one year contract for not too much money, so maybe it will be worth a shot. I was looking forward to seeing Rowand play every day though....

kermittheefrog
02-01-2002, 05:04 PM
That's it, fire him now. NOW damnit. I am tired of this, he doesn't learn I am SO PISSED OFF! Trade all the young puitchers! Sign veteran after veteran! I have to keep reminding myself that there is a good team under all these Williams moves because if I don't I wanna give up on the team until we have a new GM.

cheeses_h_rice
02-01-2002, 05:05 PM
So, Jerry, how 'bout them "false rumors"?

Jerry_Manuel
02-01-2002, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
So, Jerry, how 'bout them "false rumors"?

Can I pull a Mariotti and say I knew it all along? :?:

Jerry_Manuel
02-01-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
That's it, fire him now. NOW damnit. I am tired of this, he doesn't learn I am SO PISSED OFF! Trade all the young puitchers! Sign veteran after veteran! I have to keep reminding myself that there is a good team under all these Williams moves because if I don't I wanna give up on the team until we have a new GM.

Can we expect another negative article, like the one you wrote when Royce came into town?

czalgosz
02-01-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
That's it, fire him now. NOW damnit. I am tired of this, he doesn't learn I am SO PISSED OFF! Trade all the young puitchers! Sign veteran after veteran! I have to keep reminding myself that there is a good team under all these Williams moves because if I don't I wanna give up on the team until we have a new GM.

I am starting to agree with you on this, Kermit. This propensity that KW has to go after veterans who bring nothing to the table other than name recognition is slowly killing the team.

But I don't think that the Sox will miss any of the young pitchers that have been traded. Here is a list of all the young Sox pitchers traded over the past year -

Aaron Myette
Kip Wells
Josh Fogg
Chad Bradford

None of these guys are big deals to lose.

kermittheefrog
02-01-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Can we expect another negative article, like the one you wrote when Royce came into town?

I dunno on one hand it's not a bad risk on the other hand I'd like him to give LTP a shot.

rmusacch
02-01-2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I dunno on one hand it's not a bad risk on the other hand I'd like him to give LTP a shot.

Who is LTP?

Soxboyrob
02-01-2002, 05:15 PM
There is nothing wrong w/ this move, per se. It's a no brainer. Last year was Lofton's first non-excellent season since the early '90's. It's safe to assume he'll be better than last year, but if he's not, what's the risk in a cheap, one year contract?

The true risk is the possibility that if he's horrible/old/done/can't do it anymore, Jerry Manuel will play him anyway, rather than just going w/ Rowand. Common sense wants me to believe that if Lofton can't get it done, they'd just release him and play Aaron, but last year showed me that common sense plays no role in the Sox' management decisions, after having watched Bainesy flail all over himself before an injury forced him out of the lineup.

Jerry_Manuel
02-01-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch
Who is LTP?

Light, Tower, Power.

A nickname for Borchard.

FarWestChicago
02-01-2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


Who is LTP? http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/glossary.php?s=&ltr=L

Fisk Fan
02-01-2002, 05:21 PM
I really don't like this move. I thought the reason for trading Singleton was to make room in a crowded outfield. All KW did was add another rooster to the henhouse. While Lofton has speed and a pretty good glove, can he hit the ball? From what I'm reading, he might not get a warm reception on opening day......

34rancher
02-01-2002, 05:23 PM
A "REAL" leadoff-hitter? A center-field veteran with playoff experience? Sounds like a great move to me. I suggested a couple of days ago. I think that it will pan out just fine. Ray, welcome to the Number 8 hole (just ahead of Clayton).

Jerry_Manuel
02-01-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Fisk Fan
I really don't like this move. I thought the reason for trading Singleton was to make room in a crowded outfield. All KW did was add another rooster to the henhouse. While Lofton has speed and a pretty good glove, can he hit the ball? From what I'm reading, he might not get a warm reception on opening day......

It's only for one year. Borchard's here next year and maybe Lee's gone and Rowand plays left. :?:

HootieMcBoob
02-01-2002, 05:30 PM
Jeez, when I first heard the move, I was furious.....but I will wait til the season to make up my mind about Lofton.
I just don't like getting Injun cast-offs - it's just weird cheering for them.

But the big question in my mind was who leads off - Ray or Lofton??????

Jerry_Manuel
02-01-2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by HootieMcBoob
But the big question in my mind was who leads off - Ray or Lofton??????

It has to be Lofton. I think if you were to ask Ray if he likes leading off, he would tell you no. He's only done it, because he had to.

OfficerKarkovice
02-01-2002, 07:58 PM
Think about this tho, LTP gets another year in the minors really gets his sh*t together, our OF in 2003 looks like:

LF - Carlos (if he breaks out and comes back to form)
CF - Borchard
RF- Maggs

or

LF- Rowand (we trade Lee for pitching)
CF - Borchard
RF - Maggs

I like what I see...this deal might not be as bad as originally thought.

Tragg
02-01-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I am starting to agree with you on this, Kermit. This propensity that KW has to go after veterans who bring nothing to the table other than name recognition is slowly killing the team.

But I don't think that the Sox will miss any of the young pitchers that have been traded. Here is a list of all the young Sox pitchers traded over the past year -

Aaron Myette
Kip Wells
Josh Fogg
Chad Bradford

None of these guys are big deals to lose.

No they aren't. But they did have value. And I bet we could have gotten a shortstop prospect or a catcher prospect and/or a centerfielder prospect for some of those pitchers. No, Williams insists on loading the team up with over the hill stuff like clayton (never was), lofton and retrospectively Wells. Seattle had 3 or so top shortstop prospects - San Diego traded some of their prospects for one of these - why can't Kenny Williams do something creative or clever, other than get us 40 year old minor leaguer because he can't keep players on minor league rosters straight.
We just don't get an edge with williams.

sox_fan_forever
02-01-2002, 08:22 PM
When I first heard about the signing I was in shock. 1) I couldn't believe that something ESPN reported actually came true and 2) I couldn't believe the Sox actually signed Lofton. I have never liked him. However, after reading some of the comments here I think I will reserve judgement until Lofton does something that really gets me.

RichH55
02-02-2002, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Tragg


No they aren't. But they did have value. And I bet we could have gotten a shortstop prospect or a catcher prospect and/or a centerfielder prospect for some of those pitchers. No, Williams insists on loading the team up with over the hill stuff like clayton (never was), lofton and retrospectively Wells. Seattle had 3 or so top shortstop prospects - San Diego traded some of their prospects for one of these - why can't Kenny Williams do something creative or clever, other than get us 40 year old minor leaguer because he can't keep players on minor league rosters straight.
We just don't get an edge with williams.


A Catching Prospect is exactly what we got for Bradford

RichH55
02-02-2002, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
Think about this tho, LTP gets another year in the minors really gets his sh*t together, our OF in 2003 looks like:

LF - Carlos (if he breaks out and comes back to form)
CF - Borchard
RF- Maggs

or

LF- Rowand (we trade Lee for pitching)
CF - Borchard
RF - Maggs

I like what I see...this deal might not be as bad as originally thought. Im going with Kark on this one......how much worse than Rowand do you expect Lofton to produce? Im guessing not much if at all and it gives KW a reason to let LTP get some more time to hone his skills

RichH55
02-02-2002, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
There is nothing wrong w/ this move, per se. It's a no brainer. Last year was Lofton's first non-excellent season since the early '90's. It's safe to assume he'll be better than last year, but if he's not, what's the risk in a cheap, one year contract?

The true risk is the possibility that if he's horrible/old/done/can't do it anymore, Jerry Manuel will play him anyway, rather than just going w/ Rowand. Common sense wants me to believe that if Lofton can't get it done, they'd just release him and play Aaron, but last year showed me that common sense plays no role in the Sox' management decisions, after having watched Bainesy flail all over himself before an injury forced him out of the lineup.


You dont think any situation with Baines might be just a touch different than with Lofton? I mean its not like one was brought back as a White Sox hero, had his number retired, and was a favorite of the owner or anything....er...and also Kenny has incentives built all over that contract, playing him more doesnt help the bottomline....Rowand makes squat on the bench or in CF.....plus LTP is your future not Lofton or Rowand, whoever is the starting CF in 2002, wont be in 2003....Lofton isnt a bad risk

harwar
02-02-2002, 10:01 AM
If Lofton is truely healthy then i like this move.I realize how old he is but if there is nothing physically wrong with the guy then we get a leadoff hitter and a basestealer.A lot of base stealing is cunning,skill,& knowledge.There are so many new young pitchers in the bigs now-a-days that don't know how to keep a runner close.I love Aaron(crash)Rowand also,but this could turn out to be a great move by KW.Something i have never said before.I guess i can kiss my secret favorite player(julio ramirez)goodbye.

AsInWreck
02-02-2002, 10:21 AM
We're talking about a career .302 hitter here/if he's healthy he should be good/if not that'll give
rowand playing time/either way the sox will be alright

Procol Harum
02-02-2002, 10:44 AM
On the face of it, IF Lofton can rebound he could be a nice pick-up--I'd say if he could hit .290 for us, steal 25-30 bases, and get at least 10-12 dingers I'd be satisfied. The tremendous upside is, of course, that we get Durham out of the lead-off spot and that is a God-send. Of course, as they say, IF is a mighty big word (i.e. IF my grandmother would have had a certain piece of equipment she could've been my grandfather...).

What I immediately don't like about the Lofton acquisition is the fact that we are taking a flyer on a "name" veteran discard...as a long-time Sox fan I've seen this act many times before...trouble is I'm having a tough time remembering when it might have ever panned out for us....ok, Tom Seaver did alright...who else? Thots?

CubKilla
02-02-2002, 10:47 AM
I can't believe I'm reading all this negativity from Sox fan's on the signing of Kenny Lofton. True, he's not as talented or as fast as he once was. Veterans traded or picked up late in their careers usually never are. And, yes, I despise the fact that he played for the Tribe all those years. But now he's wearing the white and black. I'd rather have him on my team this year than face him on an opposing team. The addition of Kenny Lofton, if he's healthy, gives the White Sox one of the best line-ups in baseball. Barring injury, here's my opening day lineup:

1) Kenny Lofton
2) Jose Valentin
3) Frank Thomas
4) Magglio Ordonez
5) Paul Konerko
6) Carlos Lee/Aaron Rowand
7) Ray Durham
8) Mark Johnson/Josh Paul
9) Royce Clayton

Anybody out there, really AND objectively, that doesn't like the fact that the White Sox have that 1-7 in their lineup?

Yes..... Lofton is entering the twilight of his career. But a one year deal w/incentives is, in my opinion, a good move. Lofton also brings playoff and WS experience with him..... like it or not. If the White Sox are where we hope they'll be at season's end this will also help the team.

I also think that there is a possibility the White Sox will try to deal Carlos Lee for a starting pitcher similar to a Todd Ritchie before opening day. If this comes to be, look for Rowand to take over the LF position. Borchard then becomes the White Sox's fourth OF. You guys think Kenny Lofton has nothing he could teach Joe Borchard between games this season? Good signing KW.

AsInWreck
02-02-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by CubsF'nBlow

I also think that there is a possibility the White Sox will try to deal Carlos Lee for a starting pitcher similar to a Todd Ritchie before opening day. If this comes to be, look for Rowand to take over the LF position. Borchard then becomes the White Sox's fourth OF. You guys think Kenny Lofton has nothing he could teach Joe Borchard between games this season? Good signing KW.

Borchard is not getting called to the bigs to be
a 4th of

RichH55
02-03-2002, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by AsInWreck


Borchard is not getting called to the bigs to be
a 4th of


Exactly...........when LTP comes to Chicago it is to be penciled in to the lineup every day.....I still think Simmons is your 4th OF this year, especially if Liefer is hitting in ST