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cheeses_h_rice
05-18-2006, 04:35 PM
Damn Tiggers.

maurice
05-18-2006, 04:37 PM
Please wait until all of the day's games are played before reconfiguring the standings.

miker
05-18-2006, 04:37 PM
It's May 18.

ondafarm
05-18-2006, 04:38 PM
It don't count till the end of the day.

RadioheadRocks
05-18-2006, 04:39 PM
Please wait until all of the day's games are played before reconfiguring the standings.

Amen!

boiler up
05-18-2006, 04:40 PM
someone else needs to play tonight...

itsnotrequired
05-18-2006, 04:40 PM
Damn Tiggers.

Homefish, is that you?

:tongue:

ondafarm
05-18-2006, 04:45 PM
Like my favorite opera singer tells me about baseball.

". . . it ain't over till the fat lady swings. "

1917
05-18-2006, 04:51 PM
Tigers just don't scare me...they have no bench, if one of there starters get hurt, they are done....and there pitching will not last the entire year...they remind me of the 2004 Sox, we started off great and just got worse as the season went on, we had big power hitters and when they got cold, so did we

batmanZoSo
05-18-2006, 04:53 PM
The Tigers are having a dream season so far. And on top of that, they've been red hot lately and we've been more or less treading water by our standards. And with that said, we can end the day back in first, so big whoop.

Minnie Me
05-18-2006, 04:54 PM
This is the Tigers moment to shine. They move on to the dreaded Reds in Cincy then they get to play KC again and again and again.

Hitmen77
05-18-2006, 04:57 PM
:threadsucks

I sure hope the Sox players aren't as quick to panic as some of the people on this site!

StillMissOzzie
05-18-2006, 04:58 PM
Damn it, this means that the Sox can't claim a wire-to-wire season lead! I am crushed! All is lost! Woe is me!

SMO
:(:

QCIASOXFAN
05-18-2006, 04:58 PM
Boooo!

DaleJRFan
05-18-2006, 04:59 PM
All of these things being said about the Tigers were said about the Sox last season. Why can't they "be for real"? Give them some credit.

Anyway, I seem to recall a 3game sweep occuring earlier this year. We're better - and the head to head series will prove this.

Dan Mega
05-18-2006, 04:59 PM
Homefish, is that you?

:tongue:

Could someone give us a chart explaining why the Sox are doomed to fail?

Chip Z'nuff
05-18-2006, 05:00 PM
I don't mind battling the tigers. I don't think we have had a very good rivalry with them yet since the realignment. I think i can handle tiger fans much better than those god awful senior busses full of indian fans pulling up to the cell

HITMEN OF 77
05-18-2006, 05:06 PM
The Tigers team of this year reminds me of the KC team a few years back. They will start to fold over the summer.

batmanZoSo
05-18-2006, 05:09 PM
Maybe I'm taking it wrong, but cheeses is just pointing out a fact. I don't think he's gunning for Home Fish's job here, people..

itsnotrequired
05-18-2006, 05:13 PM
Maybe I'm taking it wrong, but cheeses is just pointing out a fact. I don't think he's gunning for Home Fish's job here, people..

Homefish, is that you?

:redneck

IlliniSox4Life
05-18-2006, 05:21 PM
2006 Tigers = 2005 Orioles

Hangar18
05-18-2006, 05:26 PM
Damn Tiggers.


Hopefully Ozz and the rest of the team realize that the Tiggers are Serious about this. They have pitching too. We shouldve SWEPT the Twinks and we wouldnt be talking about this.
Memo to Ozzie: NO MORE B Lineups, No more Conceding games in 6th with Logan/Thornton. Thats the difference right now between a 4 game 1st place lead, and being tied for 1st.

daveeym
05-18-2006, 05:26 PM
The deficit is growing.

Hangar18
05-18-2006, 05:32 PM
The Tigers team of this year reminds me of the KC team a few years back. They will start to fold over the summer.

This Tigers team reminds me of US last year. What I dont like is the number of games we've simply given away. Were only in Mid May, and theres 5 games arguably that we just said Here Take this. This division and League are too tough to be doing this. OZZIE?

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 05:33 PM
Hopefully Ozz and the rest of the team realize that the Tiggers are Serious about this. They have pitching too. We shouldve SWEPT the Twinks and we wouldnt be talking about this.
Memo to Ozzie: NO MORE B Lineups, No more Conceding games in 6th with Logan/Thornton. Thats the difference right now between a 4 game 1st place lead, and being tied for 1st.

:rolling:

If you haven't figured out by now that keeping guys fresh for the entire season is a GOOD thing, then I guess you never will. I mean, it's only been pointed out around here several thousand times. Then again, some people would rather be in 1st in May by a few games than be fresh for the playoffs in October.

daveeym
05-18-2006, 05:35 PM
:rolling:

If you haven't figured out by now that keeping guys fresh for the entire season is a GOOD thing, then I guess you never will. I mean, it's only been pointed out around here several thousand times. Then again, some people would rather be in 1st in May by a few games than be fresh for the playoffs in October. 2 words, Long Haul. I had a picture all lined up for his post but I'd be banned for the four letter word on it. It was the "Aw Geez, not this **** again" guy.

Cat Thief
05-18-2006, 05:35 PM
Memo to Ozzie: NO MORE B Lineups, No more Conceding games in 6th with Logan/Thornton. Thats the difference right now between a 4 game 1st place lead, and being tied for 1st.

Unbelievable. Jibber jabber.

Baby Fisk
05-18-2006, 05:36 PM
This Tigers team reminds me of US last year. What I dont like is the number of games we've simply given away. Were only in Mid May, and theres 5 games arguably that we just said Here Take this. This division and League are too tough to be doing this. OZZIE?
Look what you started, Cheeses. :tongue:

miker
05-18-2006, 05:37 PM
Hopefully Ozz and the rest of the team realize that the Tiggers are Serious about this. They have pitching too. We shouldve SWEPT the Twinks and we wouldnt be talking about this.
Memo to Ozzie: NO MORE B Lineups, No more Conceding games in 6th with Logan/Thornton. Thats the difference right now between a 4 game 1st place lead, and being tied for 1st.
Easy there Hangar, you're already on blood presure medicine doing the Media Watch...

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 05:38 PM
2 words, Long Haul. I had a picture all lined up for his post but I'd be banned for the four letter word on it. It was the "Aw Geez, not this **** again" guy.

It baffles me that people are still this clueless on the "keeping guys fresh" thing. And it's much easier to keep guys fresh when the bench is so strong. Hell, Ozzie did the same thing last year with a relatively ****ty bench. And we still won it all.

Gee, I wonder if going 11-1 in the post-season had anything to do with our guys being a half-step faster b/c they weren't as beat up as the rest of the league.

DaleJRFan
05-18-2006, 05:39 PM
Look what you started, Cheeses. :tongue:

Why? He's right.

When the starting 8 actually start (which is what they are supposed to do) the Sox win. They are paid to be everyday players, not platoon players - which is what they are right now. It makes no sense to me. Play the best lineup everyday.

SABRSox
05-18-2006, 05:39 PM
Yawn. Sigh. Don't you remember the A's last season? All this talk about how they were going to steamroll their way into and through the playoffs last season. Their young pitching kept getting talked up. And I said all along that those young starters will eventually hit the wall and the team will fade. Sure enough, in the final 2 weeks, that's what happened.

The Tigers will experience the exact same thing. Bonderman and Maroth not so much, but Justin Verlander will hit the wall come August. Besides, they've had an easy schedule thus far. They've played MIN 9 times already. And they still have to face us 16 times.

Not worried one bit.

daveeym
05-18-2006, 05:41 PM
This Tigers team reminds me of US last year. What I dont like is the number of games we've simply given away. Were only in Mid May, and theres 5 games arguably that we just said Here Take this. This division and League are too tough to be doing this. OZZIE?

Homefish: I say we kill him!
Group: [shouts] Yeah!
Shoota: I say we hang him, then we kill him!
Group: [shouts] Yeah!
Hangar: I say we stomp him!
Group: [shouts] Yeah!
Hangar: Then we tattoo him!
Group: [shouts] Yeah!
Hangar: Then we hang him!
Group: [shouts] Yeah!
Hangar: And then we kill him!
Group: [shouts] Yeah!
Ozzie: [trying to throw voice without moving lips] I say we let him go.
Group: [shouts] No!

Baby Fisk
05-18-2006, 05:47 PM
Why? He's right.

When the starting 8 actually start (which is what they are supposed to do) the Sox win. They are paid to be everyday players, not platoon players - which is what they are right now. It makes no sense to me. Play the best lineup everyday.
Ozzie's approach is the same as it was last year and that turned out OK, didn't it?

Hitmen77
05-18-2006, 05:48 PM
.... in other news, it was reported today that the sky was falling - but not before it became filled with ominous dark clouds.

HotelWhiteSox
05-18-2006, 05:49 PM
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5694/vsdet4dx.jpg

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 05:49 PM
Ozzie's approach is the same as it was last year and that turned out OK, didn't it?

We've been down this road before and it generally leads to people ignoring logic. But I applaud you for fighting the fight.

Mickster
05-18-2006, 05:49 PM
Ozzie's approach is the same as it was last year and that turned out OK, didn't it?

Pfft. We did lose one in the playoffs, didn't we? :cool:

daveeym
05-18-2006, 05:52 PM
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5694/vsdet4dx.jpg16 more of those you say?

JB98
05-18-2006, 05:55 PM
Only one thing concerns me about the Tigers: They have three lefties in their rotation.

The Sox against right-handed starters: 20-5
The Sox against left-handed starters: 6-8

That said, we're already 3-0 against Detroit, and we beat Robertson in that series. Didn't face either Rogers or Maroth. I'm looking for Maroth to come back to earth soon. I don't think he's going to finish the season with an ERA in the twos.

delben91
05-18-2006, 05:57 PM
The Tigers may very well be "for real" and I won't discount them.

However, do you all honestly believe they'll maintain an ERA around 3.10 ALL SEASON?

I don't, and because of that, I don't see them playing .675-.700 ball through October, and that's about what it'd take I think to top the Sox.

thomas35forever
05-18-2006, 06:03 PM
The Reds are coming back to earth right now, and I have a feeling the Tigers also will sometime soon.

Chisox003
05-18-2006, 06:05 PM
The Reds are coming back to earth right now, and I have a feeling the Tigers also will sometime soon.
The Tigers have pitching, the Reds do not.

That said, this thread is a ****ing joke.

spiffie
05-18-2006, 06:08 PM
Yawn. Sigh. Don't you remember the A's last season? All this talk about how they were going to steamroll their way into and through the playoffs last season. Their young pitching kept getting talked up. And I said all along that those young starters will eventually hit the wall and the team will fade. Sure enough, in the final 2 weeks, that's what happened.

The Tigers will experience the exact same thing. Bonderman and Maroth not so much, but Justin Verlander will hit the wall come August. Besides, they've had an easy schedule thus far. They've played MIN 9 times already. And they still have to face us 16 times.

Not worried one bit.
Should it then be assumed we are not as good as our record since we've had 7 against MIN and 9 against KC? Or does this only apply to teams not named the White Sox?

Hopefully Ozzie and company will give them more respect than the folks here give them. Which I suspect they will. But I would be much happier betting on this Detroit team to win 90 then I would be betting on them to finish below .500 this season.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 06:09 PM
The Tigers may very well be "for real" and I won't discount them.

However, do you all honestly believe they'll maintain an ERA around 3.10 ALL SEASON?

I don't, and because of that, I don't see them playing .675-.700 ball through October, and that's about what it'd take I think to top the Sox.

How many teams have played .675-.700 ball in the course of history? You are talking 109-113 victories there. I highly doubt that's what the Tigers would have to maintain to win the division. Is the ERA going to be in the low 3's all year, no, but if their hitting picks up then it won't need to be.

oeo
05-18-2006, 06:12 PM
Hopefully Ozz and the rest of the team realize that the Tiggers are Serious about this. They have pitching too. We shouldve SWEPT the Twinks and we wouldnt be talking about this.
Memo to Ozzie: NO MORE B Lineups, No more Conceding games in 6th with Logan/Thornton. Thats the difference right now between a 4 game 1st place lead, and being tied for 1st.
It may look stupid now, but when the Sox starters are still strong and ready to go down the stretch, while the Tigers are tiring out, you will see how much this meant.

And BTW, it's only May...I think we're going to be fine.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 06:16 PM
It may look stupid now, but when the Sox starters are still strong and ready to go down the stretch, while the Tigers are tiring out, you will see how much this meant.

And BTW, it's only May...I think we're going to be fine.

Every manager does what Ozzie does with backups, including Leyland so don't bet on the Tigers tiring out because they rest guys too. For those that think the Tigers have a crappy bench, they are actually doing pretty well...Vance Wilson is doing well and Marcus Thames has 5 homers in 50+ at bats with a respectable average.

oeo
05-18-2006, 06:20 PM
Every manager does what Ozzie does with backups, including Leyland so don't bet on the Tigers tiring out because they rest guys too. For those that think the Tigers have a crappy bench, they are actually doing pretty well...Vance Wilson is doing well and Marcus Thames has 5 homers in 50+ at bats with a respectable average.

I never said that Ozzie was the only one, but I still don't think any manager does it to the extent that he does. I think we've seen all of the starters out there something like 12 or 13 times all year.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 06:21 PM
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5694/vsdet4dx.jpg

Like I said in another thread, I hope the Tigers can go 8-8 for the rest of the games against the Sox. That will take the Sox's ability to control the fate of the Tigers away and force both teams to beat everyone else in the division. If that scenario can happen i like the chances.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2006, 06:23 PM
I really hate Tiger fan trolls.

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 06:23 PM
I never said that Ozzie was the only one, but I still don't think any manager does it to the extent that he does. I think we've seen all of the starters out there something like 12 or 13 times all year.

Ozzie definitely does it more than any other manager. And he can afford to do it when you're playing .667 baseball.

The Tigers are solid, no doubt. However, they've got some pitchers who either historically, or b/c of their age, are likely to fall off considerably after the All-Star break.

ondafarm
05-18-2006, 06:24 PM
Why? He's right.

When the starting 8 actually start (which is what they are supposed to do) the Sox win. They are paid to be everyday players, not platoon players - which is what they are right now. It makes no sense to me. Play the best lineup everyday.

So you drive foot to the floor the entire race, never let up even going into turns and the pits?

You must have been a fan of the 69 Cubs.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 06:25 PM
I never said that Ozzie was the only one, but I still don't think any manager does it to the extent that he does. I think we've seen all of the starters out there something like 12 or 13 times all year.

One of the Criticisms of Alan Trammell was that he rested his regulars too much. So far I like the way Leyland has used the bench, all of them usually play a couple of times per week. Dmitri Young being out of the lineup most of the season has forced bench players to play a lot.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 06:27 PM
I really hate Tiger fan trolls.

I'm really not trying to troll, that's not my intent...I'm not bashing the white sox or their fans, I'm just defending the Tigers...that is not allowed here?

oeo
05-18-2006, 06:28 PM
One of the Criticisms of Alan Trammell was that he rested his regulars too much. So far I like the way Leyland has used the bench, all of them usually play a couple of times per week. Dmitri Young being out of the lineup most of the season has forced bench players to play a lot.

Ozzie's way seems to work, he won last year doing it. I hope you're not comparing him to Trammell. :o:

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 06:29 PM
I'm really not trying to troll, that's not my intent...I'm not bashing the white sox or their fans, I'm just defending the Tigers...that is not allowed here?
FWIW, I don't think you're trolling. I just think that there are a few guys on your team that have been big reasons why the Tigers have had a good 6 weeks that are WAY overperforming and will fall back to earth before August rolls around. When that happens, if you can keep winning, then you're for real.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2006, 06:31 PM
I'm really not trying to troll, that's not my intent...I'm not bashing the white sox or their fans, I'm just defending the Tigers...that is not allowed here?
Read the tag at the top of this page.

White Sox Interactive: totally biased

I'm sure there are plenty of Tigers boards to discuss your team.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 06:32 PM
Ozzie's way seems to work, he won last year doing it. I hope you're not comparing him to Trammell. :o:


Absolutely not, I'm not comparing the two at all. Ozzie is a great manager who knows what he's doing and I don't think he's excessively resting his players.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 06:37 PM
Read the tag at the top of this page.

White Sox Interactive: totally biased

I'm sure there are plenty of Tigers boards to discuss your team.

There are, I apologize for annoying you. I have lurked on this board for a long time as a good friend of mine who is a regular on here pointed me out to this place a long time ago. I really think this is a great board and thought that another perspective could maybe provide some overall objectivity on here, but I will stop because it is your board after all and I don't mean make people angry, I just thought a message board was a place were not everyone has to totally agree, either way, good luck with the rest of the season, but not too much luck, lol. I'm hoping to get tickets to a game next month in Chicago when these two teams play, I think the atmosphere will be awesome.

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 06:39 PM
There are, I apologize for annoying you. I have lurked on this board for a long time as a good friend of mine who is a regular on here pointed me out to this place a long time ago. I really think this is a great board and thought that another perspective could maybe provide some overall objectivity on here, but I will stop because it is your board after all and I don't mean make people angry, I just thought a message board was a place were not everyone has to totally agree, either way, good luck with the rest of the season, but not too much luck, lol. I'm hoping to get tickets to a game next month in Chicago when these two teams play, I think the atmosphere will be awesome.

Stick around. Fans of other teams have always been welcome here as long as they are not trolls. You don't strike me as a troll.

Hitmen77
05-18-2006, 06:43 PM
There are, I apologize for annoying you. I have lurked on this board for a long time as a good friend of mine who is a regular on here pointed me out to this place a long time ago. I really think this is a great board and thought that another perspective could maybe provide some overall objectivity on here, but I will stop because it is your board after all and I don't mean make people angry, I just thought a message board was a place were not everyone has to totally agree, either way, good luck with the rest of the season, but not too much luck, lol. I'm hoping to get tickets to a game next month in Chicago when these two teams play, I think the atmosphere will be awesome.

I don't agree that you're a troll. I actually welcome the reality check against all of this hot air about the Tigers fading.

Didn't we Sox fans have to endure that all last year? Haven't we learned anything from that?

oeo
05-18-2006, 06:43 PM
Stick around. Fans of other teams have always been welcome here as long as they are not trolls. You don't strike me as a troll.

Yeah, he's not a troll. Just don't start badmouthing the Sox and you should be fine.

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 06:45 PM
Yeah, he's not a troll. Just don't start badmouthing the Sox and you should be fine.

Only Sox fans can bad mouth the Sox!

cburns
05-18-2006, 06:47 PM
The only area the Tigs have an advantage over the Sox is in the bullpen, but I expect their starting pitching to tire out and then overexpose their bullpen.

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 06:48 PM
I don't agree that you're a troll. I actually welcome the reality check against all of this hot air about the Tigers fading.

Didn't we Sox fans have to endure that all last year? Haven't we learned anything from that?

The differene is the Tigers currently have 2 starting pitchers who are pitching WAY better than they ever have before. And they have a 3rd guy who has historically sucked in the 2nd half.

delben91
05-18-2006, 06:50 PM
How many teams have played .675-.700 ball in the course of history? You are talking 109-113 victories there. I highly doubt that's what the Tigers would have to maintain to win the division. Is the ERA going to be in the low 3's all year, no, but if their hitting picks up then it won't need to be.

Yeah, my numbers there might've been a bit off, I admit to not doing the math all the way out, but both the Sox and Tigers are right around .675 at the moment. I was saying that if the Sox kept up their pace the Tigers would have to better it, that's all I was getting at.

And I'm not saying that if the Tigers' ERA rises that it spells their doom, just that so far it seems to me (having only watched a handful of Tigers games), that pitching has been carrying them. With young players it's hard to know if they're "hot" or if this is their true ability. Such as with Jenks on the Sox, and Verlander on the Tigers. I don't doubt Verlander is for real, but can he keep up such a torrid pace all season? Just have to wait and see. I'm not betting that it won't happen, just not betting that it will either.

You're right though, if they hit more, it doesn't matter a ton.

That said, Go SOX! :D:

DaleJRFan
05-18-2006, 06:58 PM
You must have been a fan of the 69 Cubs.

Yea, that's exactly it.

cheeses_h_rice
05-18-2006, 06:58 PM
Maybe I'm taking it wrong, but cheeses is just pointing out a fact. I don't think he's gunning for Home Fish's job here, people..

Thank you.

Sheesh! I just was looking at today's standings and happened to see the Tigers are indeed 1/2 game ahead of the Sox, first time that's happened in quite a while. That's all. No predictions for the rest of the season, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Chisox003
05-18-2006, 07:01 PM
Thank you.

Sheesh! I just was looking at today's standings and happened to see the Tigers are indeed 1/2 game ahead of the Sox, first time that's happened in quite a while. That's all. No predictions for the rest of the season, etc. etc. ad nauseum.
Only 7,800 posts and starting threads like this, eh?

Anyone else smell a :dtroll:

:cool:

Chips
05-18-2006, 07:05 PM
All of these things being said about the Tigers were said about the Sox last season. Why can't they "be for real"? Give them some credit.

Anyway, I seem to recall a 3game sweep occuring earlier this year. We're better - and the head to head series will prove this.

Exactly, they have one of the better pitching staffs in the league and they are playing good ball. We are a better team, we proved it once and we will prove it again.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 07:07 PM
The differene is the Tigers currently have 2 starting pitchers who are pitching WAY better than they ever have before. And they have a 3rd guy who has historically sucked in the 2nd half.

Just this last point. Last year that's what people were saying about Contreras and Garland...especially Garland. The last few years Rogers has had worse second halves, but if you look up his career numbers, he historcially is a better pitcher in the second half of the season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/3974/career_by_all_pitching_splits.html#month_by_month

1st half: 4.27 ERA, .265 BAA
2nd Half: 4.10 ERA, .258 BAA

Maybe the Texas heat made him fatigue in the second half as he got older? I don't know, hopefully for us Tiger fans, the combination of a more moderate summer and a bigger home park will temper a second half decline.

CHISOXFAN13
05-18-2006, 07:09 PM
The Red Sox and Yankees need to worry about the Tigers. The White Sox are better than all three of them, so maybe one of the glorious East Coast teams will find themselves on the outside looking in come October since Cleveland ****ed it up last year.

ilsox7
05-18-2006, 07:09 PM
Just this last point. Last year that's what people were saying about Contreras and Garland...especially Garland. The last few years Rogers has had worse second halves, but if you look up his career numbers, he historcially is a better pitcher in the second half of the season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/3974/career_by_all_pitching_splits.html#month_by_month

1st half: 4.27 ERA, .265 BAA
2nd Half: 4.10 ERA, .258 BAA

Maybe the Texas heat made him fatigue in the second half as he got older? I don't know, hopefully for us Tiger fans, the combination of a more moderate summer and a bigger home park will temper a second half decline.

Yea, I was going off of recent history for Rogers. I should have clarified that. As for Contreras, remember that he was very iffy during the 1st half for us last year. So much so that he was rumored to be traded on a daily basis. And Garland, yes, he pitched better than he previously had last year. But even he wasn't a full 2 runs better in terms of ERA, as Mr Maroth is right now.

whitesoxwilkes
05-18-2006, 07:10 PM
Read the tag at the top of this page.

White Sox Interactive: totally biased

I'm sure there are plenty of Tigers boards to discuss your team.

Ahem.

Let the mods decide who's a troll and who isn't.

We welcome friendly and spirited baseball discussion here as long as it doesn't turn stupid.

BeviBall!
05-18-2006, 07:11 PM
Stick around, tigerclaw. I like fans of rivals that can have a nice, educated discussion.

I also believe that Detroit is starting to become the team they should've been last year. They have top notch pitching and defense with some injury-prone mashers in between. They also have the best manager in baseball.

Do I think they'll top the Sox in the Central? No. Do I think they have an outstanding shot at the playoffs? Yes. The Orioles of last year and the Royals of 2003 didn't have the overall talent the Tigers do. Pitching and defense... sound familiar?

Fenway
05-18-2006, 07:35 PM
I can't get a read on Detroit until they play NYY and Boston but it certainly looks like Leyland is doing his magic. Are they a fluke? Nobody honestly knows yet.

santo=dorf
05-18-2006, 07:48 PM
Tigers are indeed 1/2 game ahead of the Sox, first time that's happened in quite a while.
So less than 24 hours ago is "quite some time?" :?:

And Tigerclaw, what in the world makes you think the Tigs can go 8-8 against the Sox? This isn't Manuel's team any more.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 07:54 PM
So less than 24 hours ago is "quite some time?" :?:

And Tigerclaw, what in the world makes you think the Tigs can go 8-8 against the Sox? This isn't Manuel's team any more.


The Tigers aren't managed by Alan Trammell anymore either. Why couldn't the Tigers go .500 the rest of the way against Chicago?

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 07:59 PM
below is a well reasearched post by a Tigers fan on a Tigers forum...it shows team records of teams that won 26 of their first 39 games in the past 15 years and how they finished out the season. To add to this, the Tigers have won 27 of 40 games 4 times in their history...1909, 1950, 1961 and 1984....all of those years they won 95 or more games. That doesn't mean it will happen to the Tigers obviously, but there is a much better chance the Tigers will have a great year than tank like the orioles did last year.

"This made me look into something else.......what are the odds that the White Sox would match this great start? Well, I took a look at the last 15 years, and these are all the teams that have won 26 games or more out of their first 39:

2005 - White Sox (27-12)
2004 - Angels (26-13)
2003 - Yankees (26-13), Braves (27-12)
2002 - Red Sox (28-11), Mariners (27-12)
2001 - Mariners (30-9), Twins (28-11)
2000 - Braves (27-12), Diamondbacks (26-13)
1999 - Indians (29-10)
1998 - Yankees (30-9), Braves (28-11)
1997 - Braves (26-13), Orioles (26-13)
1996 - Rangers (26-13), Expos (27-12)
1995 - Indians (29-10), Red Sox (26-13)
1994 - Yankees (27-12), Orioles (26-13)
1993 - Phillies (28-11)
1992 - None
1991 - None


As you can see, 5 of the 15 years (or 33%), one or less teams put up that many W's. So it's fairly likely another team would do it.

You have to go back to 2002 to find the last time that two teams from the same league would do it. That also only happened 5 times.

But you would have to go back to 1994 to find the last time that two teams from the same division would win at least 26 of their first 39. In that year, the unlucky Orioles had a great start and still found themselves a game back of the Yankees in a season that ultimately did not matter.


Looking at the actual teams that had these hot starts? Well, if you exclude the 1994 season which didn't count, and exclude 2006, 20 teams have achieved this feat over the last 15 years. While it's nice to have a good start, especially a start this hot, it still is only 1/4 of a very long season. What came of those 20 teams?


'05 White Sox - First Place, won title
'04 Angels - First Place, lost in ALDS to eventual champion Red Sox
'03 Yankees - First Place, lost in WS to eventual champion Marlins
'03 Braves - First Place, lost in NLDS to Cubs
'02 Red Sox - Second Place, 6 games out of WC, missed playoffs
'02 Mariners - Third Place, 6 games out of WC, missed playoffs
'01 Mariners - First Place, lost in ALCS to Yankees
'01 Twins - Second Place, 6 games out of 1st, missed playoffs
'00 Braves - First Place, lost in NLDS to Cardinals
'00 Diamondbacks - Third Place, 9 games out of WC, missed playoffs
'99 Indians - First Place, lost in ALDS to Red Sox
'98 Yankees - First Place, won title
'98 Braves - First Place, lost in NLCS to Padres
'97 Braves - First Place, lost in NLCS to Marlins
'97 Orioles - First Place, lost in ALCS to Indians
'96 Rangers - First Place, lost in ALDS to eventual champion Yankees
'96 Expos - Second Place, 2 games out of WC, missed playoffs
'95 Indians - First Place, lost in WS to eventual champion Braves
'95 Red Sox - First Place, lost in ALDS to Indians
'93 Phillies - First Place, lost in WS to eventual champion Blue Jays


15 of the 20 (75%) finished in first place. 3 of them (15%) finished second. 2 of them (10%) finished third. In the omitted 1994 season, the two teams from the same division that did it, the Yankees and Orioles, finished first AND second respectively. The Orioles were 2.5 back in the wild card race at season's end.

None of the teams that finished second won the Wild Card (and the aforementioned Orioles were 2.5 out at season's end), and of the 5 teams that failed to finish first, only the '96 Expos were within 6 games of a playoff spot.

Of the 15 playoff bound teams, only two won titles (10% overall), and another 3 lost in the World Series (15%), meaning that 25% of these teams have made it to the World Series. Five were eliminated by the team that eventually went on to win the WS (although 3 of those 5 actually lost in the WS). Only the '95 Red Sox were eliminated by another team that managed the feat.


The Tigers are in an interesting situation as there is no precedent in the 6 division era for two teams within the same division with this kind of start simultaneously. It only happened in 1994 and that story had no ending. In the last 15 years this has not happened.

However, recent trends suggest that on virtue of their hot start alone, they're more likely than unlikely to make the playoffs, and almost certain to finish no lower than third place and within 6 games of a playoff spot.

Let's see how this story plays out."

cheeses_h_rice
05-18-2006, 08:32 PM
So less than 24 hours ago is "quite some time?" :?:


Must've missed that. I thought the Sox were tied with them, at worst, most of the year except for that first few days.

:redface:

santo=dorf
05-18-2006, 08:54 PM
Must've missed that. I thought the Sox were tied with them, at worst, most of the year except for that first few days.

:redface:
Don't worry, it was only for less than two hours.

The Tigers aren't managed by Alan Trammell anymore either. Why couldn't the Tigers go .500 the rest of the way against Chicago?
That's faulty logic.

Jim Leyland's Tigers got swept at home, while they were playing about as well as they are now, by Ozzie's Guillen's, then limping, White Sox.

You're already sounding like Indians fans after we swept them in the first series after the ASB last year.

Tigerclaw
05-18-2006, 09:06 PM
Don't worry, it was only for less than two hours.


That's faulty logic.

Jim Leyland's Tigers got swept at home, while they were playing about as well as they are now, by Ozzie's Guillen's, then limping, White Sox.

You're already sounding like Indians fans after we swept them in the first series after the ASB last year.

It seems as logical as assuming that because the White Sox won the first three games of the season series that the Tigers have no chance of splitting the rest. None of those games were blowouts and Verlander had his only bad outing of the year. I don't think the Sox will go 19-0 vs. the Tigers and I don't think the Tigers will go 16-3, so it will be somewhere in between and I'm hoping for 8-11 in favor of the sox, which would be 8-8 the rest of the way.

FarWestChicago
05-18-2006, 09:07 PM
Ahem.

Let the mods decide who's a troll and who isn't.

We welcome friendly and spirited baseball discussion here as long as it doesn't turn stupid.I'm voting for cheeses as troll. What the hell did he expect with this thread and the lunatics around here? :redneck

Grzegorz
05-18-2006, 09:12 PM
It seems as logical as assuming that because the White Sox won the first three games of the season series that the Tigers have no chance of splitting the rest. None of those games were blowouts and Verlander had his only bad outing of the year. I don't think the Sox will go 19-0 vs. the Tigers and I don't think the Tigers will go 16-3, so it will be somewhere in between and I'm hoping for 8-11 in favor of the sox, which would be 8-8 the rest of the way.

Stick around Tigerclaw, I like the discussion. I believe the Tiger will stick around. Part of that has to do with the Tigers being a personal favorite right after after our beloved White Sox and some of that is because I truly believe this Tiger team has some fine starting pitching (not a big believer in the pen).

Nellie_Fox
05-18-2006, 09:23 PM
Stick around, Tigerclaw. An honest analysis of your team's strengths does not constitute trolling. Nothing you wrote bothered me one iota. Heck, we've even allowed Cubs fans to hang around as long as they behaved.:tongue: Whatever happened to Vic, anyway?

itsnotrequired
05-18-2006, 09:54 PM
2nd place, "official" now.

I hate playing in domes...

Blueprint1
05-18-2006, 09:56 PM
Oh yeah where was Tigerclaw the last six years? I hate when people like this show up.

QCIASOXFAN
05-18-2006, 09:56 PM
This is weak!

chisoxmike
05-18-2006, 09:56 PM
I can't get a read on Detroit until they play NYY and Boston but it certainly looks like Leyland is doing his magic. Are they a fluke? Nobody honestly knows yet.

Oh yeah becuase those are the two teams everybody must be judged by.
Like last year when the road trip against the Yankees and Red Sox was supposed to be how everyone would see if the Sox were "for real" or not. Please. We went 2-3 on that trip...not good, not bad...it meant NOTHING! Just two more teams that we had to play that weren't as good as us. And we STOMPED the Red Sox in the playoffs.

mccoydp
05-18-2006, 09:57 PM
The Tigers are playing damned good baseball so far.

To say that they don't have a chance is akin to the naysayers who said the same thing about our beloved Sox last year.

I, for one, welcome a tight, competitive race in the Central this year. It will definitely make things interesting.

I agree with you, ChiSoxMike: who the hell made the Yank-mees and the Red Cubs the measuring stick against which all other clubs are measured?

whitesoxwilkes
05-18-2006, 10:11 PM
Oh yeah becuase those are the two teams everybody must be judged by.
Like last year when the road trip against the Yankees and Red Sox was supposed to be how everyone would see if the Sox were "for real" or not. Please. We went 2-3 on that trip...not good, not bad...it meant NOTHING! Just two more teams that we had to play that weren't as good as us. And we STOMPED the Red Sox in the playoffs.

Ummmm...uhhhh...Fenway lives out east..ummm..it might be his first chance to catch the Tigers on the tube. They haven't been on ESPN yet, IIRC.

cheeses_h_rice
05-18-2006, 10:16 PM
I'm voting for cheeses as troll. What the hell did he expect with this thread and the lunatics around here? :redneck

I should have known. How many members does WSI have now? A million?

:wink:

ondafarm
05-18-2006, 10:20 PM
I should have known. How many members does WSI have now? A million?

:wink:

Crepe hanging has been so unfashionable since Harry died.

itsnotrequired
05-18-2006, 10:24 PM
I'm voting for cheeses as troll. What the hell did he expect with this thread and the lunatics around here? :redneck

TREATED!!!:D:

All I know is that Sox-Tigers series in early June is shaping up to be a mighty big series.

Jerko
05-18-2006, 10:29 PM
I'm disgusted with a losing road trip vs. the likes of the Twins and Drays, but we have a LOT of time left to do some damage to the Tigers, personally. Last year it was Cleveland's inablilty to beat us head to head that was their eventual undoing, this year, it's Detroit's turn. Remember the old cliche: it's a marathon, not a sprint. Tigers are a good team. Let's see how they handle the pressure for the entire season though.

JB98
05-18-2006, 10:50 PM
The Tigers are playing damned good baseball so far.

To say that they don't have a chance is akin to the naysayers who said the same thing about our beloved Sox last year.

I, for one, welcome a tight, competitive race in the Central this year. It will definitely make things interesting.

I agree with you, ChiSoxMike: who the hell made the Yank-mees and the Red Cubs the measuring stick against which all other clubs are measured?

The answer to your question: ESPN. It isn't right, but it is what it is.

Huisj
05-18-2006, 11:22 PM
I think one thing to watch with the Tigers is how Todd Jones holds up as the closer. Right now, they've got quite a punch at the back of the pen with Zumaya-Rodney-Jones in the late innings. However, Jones doesn't seem to be as good as his saves would suggest. He's giving up lots of hits and some runs, and it seems like half the saves he gets end with flyouts to the warning track with men on base. His stuff looks far from unhittable. If he faulters, that moves Rodney into the closer role, and puts more pressure on a very young Zumaya.

Not that Rodney and Zumaya can't be successful. We all saw firsthand what a young slinger can do in under pressure in the pen last year.

If the Tigers stay healthy and their young players keep contributing at even just a reasonable level, they can stay a good team. Comparing them to Baltimore or KC is pretty rough though. Compare each of those teams position-by-position and pitcher-by-pitcher to the Tigers, and you see quite a difference.

The thing that'll get real annoying if they stay in it is Rod Allen, their TV guy. They better they play, the more drawl he gets in his voice, the more his comments become, and the more times he says "partner" (actually sounds more like pahdna') at the end of each comment. I get headaches just from rolling my eyes so many times each game. (then again, maybe that's how other people feel when they hear hawk on tv).

Hangar18
05-18-2006, 11:24 PM
I'm disgusted with a losing road trip vs. the likes of the Twins and Drays, but we have a LOT of time left to do some damage to the Tigers, personally. Last year it was Cleveland's inablilty to beat us head to head that was their eventual undoing, this year, it's Detroit's turn. Remember the old cliche: it's a marathon, not a sprint. Tigers are a good team. Let's see how they handle the pressure for the entire season though.




I just finished practicing and im pretty LIVID seeing we actually LOST THIS SERIES. THIS IS BS. This team should not be in 2nd place.

A. Cavatica
05-18-2006, 11:47 PM
We're at the 40-game mark and the Tigers are 27-13. That's too good to be purely a fluke. They will eventually fade, but I'm no longer predicting a .500 finish for them, I'm thinking it will be in the .530-.540 range.

The Tigers have an excellent manager, some very good position players (especially C, 2B, SS, and RF -- I'm still not convinced about Shelton), and a lot of guys pitching over their heads. But Rogers is dependable, Bonderman and Verlander look like the real deal, and Maroth is a decent #4. They've beaten up on everyone but us.

It should be a close battle for second because the Indians will put on a charge at some point.

samram
05-19-2006, 02:04 AM
2nd place, "official" now.

I hate playing in domes...

Same here. The Tigers have played as well as they can against crappy teams, IMO, and are tied with the Sox, who have played maybe as well as they can, but I doubt it- and the Tiges are 0-3 against the Sox. We're still ok, folks- 122 games to go.

ode to veeck
05-19-2006, 09:56 AM
I'm voting for cheeses as troll. What the hell did he expect with this thread and the lunatics around here? :redneck

We need a rotten tomato award for really bad ideas / threads that get to 100 replies!

:tomatoaward:

SoxFan78
05-19-2006, 10:08 AM
We're at the 40-game mark and the Tigers are 27-13. That's too good to be purely a fluke. They will eventually fade, but I'm no longer predicting a .500 finish for them, I'm thinking it will be in the .530-.540 range.

Don't take this Tigers so lightly. Remember, the Sox started as hot as the Tigers last year and got no respect and look what happened.

After last year, any smart fans have to respect the Tigers and realize right now they are a threat. Don't over look them, they could be the White Sox of 2006.

ma-gaga
05-19-2006, 10:22 AM
Oh yeah where was Tigerclaw the last six years? I hate when people like this show up.

Welcome Tigerclaw! Your team sucks! :tongue:

Sometimes fans of other teams go "dormant" for a while if they are out of contention. All it'll take is for the Tribe to go nuts, crawl within 5 games of first place, then Outcast Radio will show back up.

It seems like I'll be around forever, but I have an excuse. I've become addicted to "Fantasy Island".

:cool:

soxfan13
05-19-2006, 10:35 AM
I would be really upset if yesterday was the last day of the season, but there is wayyyyyyy too much baseball to be played! So its May 19th and we are a game out I dont think we have enough time to catch those pesky Tigers!!!

MadetoOrta
05-19-2006, 11:10 AM
Would everyone quit freaking out already. You sound like those fools on the other side of town. Tip your cap to Detroit, note that it is May $%#@* ing 19th, note also the line-up and staff we have, note the '77 Sox were up 6.5 games in late July and lost the division by 15 games, the '83 Sox [I seem to recall] were in 2d place by 3+ games at the All-Star break and won the division by 20 games and, finaly, note we have gaping holes in our line-up right now offensively - SS and CF - that will be rectified in due course. Until I wake up and someone says Selig is taking away the 2005 World Series from us, I'm cool. Please folks - I hope for the last time - enjoy this. As Kevin Bacon said near the end of Animal House [parade scene] "ALL IS WELL. ALL IS WELL!"

ondafarm
05-19-2006, 11:47 AM
Hey, with all this bashing of cheeses I'd like to congratulate him.

Take a three day old event and turn it into a tomato earning thread ain't easy.

Besides, normally I have to do something stupid to get attention here. You did it for me. Thanks.

CLR01
05-19-2006, 11:48 AM
Less than 24 hours in second place and the once mighty Sox army turns into an afternoon sewing/scrapbooking circle.



Does anyone have any extra ribbon and a pair of pattern scissors. :puking:

Iwritecode
05-19-2006, 12:02 PM
I just finished practicing and im pretty LIVID seeing we actually LOST THIS SERIES. THIS IS BS. This team should not be in 2nd place.

I blame Cheeses. They would've won last night had he not started this thread.

Way to jinx the team!

Hangar18
05-19-2006, 12:06 PM
Don't take this Tigers so lightly. Remember, the Sox started as hot as the Tigers last year and got no respect and look what happened.

After last year, any smart fans have to respect the Tigers and realize right now they are a threat. Don't over look them, they could be the White Sox of 2006.

I already said that. Someone asked me if I was surprised by the Tigers, I said hell no. They always had pitching and they cost us the division in 03.
Now that Magglio and Guillen are healthy/hitting, were looking at a team exactly like us. That means, we cannot be GIVING AWAY games as often as we have. The games we gave away always come back and haunt you

russ99
05-19-2006, 12:20 PM
I really hate Tiger fan trolls.

Better than Indians fan trolls. :angry:

flo-B-flo
05-19-2006, 02:01 PM
There are going to be plenty of chances for the tiggers to prove they are in it to win it. I like the competition. It will only make the Sox a beter team. 40 games in. The Sox are right where you wanna be. As distressing as it is to lose 2 of 3 to the deviled eggs, I'm just not worried at all. Perhaps some baby c-- bashing will still the beating hearts. The Sox got the team to go all the way. Sit back and enjoy the terrifying ride.

MadetoOrta
05-19-2006, 03:12 PM
Losing 2 of 3 to the Devils in May on the road is one thing. Losing 2 of 3 to the Devils AT HOME DURING THE FINAL WEEK OF THE SEASON is another. [See '05 Cleve. Indians for reference]

sox1970
05-19-2006, 09:52 PM
Tigers lose. Sox back tied for first.

Iguana775
05-19-2006, 10:13 PM
Again, I bring up the fact that the Sox lost 2 of 3 at TB last year. I think the season turned out alright. :cool:

FarWestChicago
05-19-2006, 10:15 PM
I just finished practicing and im pretty LIVID seeing we actually LOST THIS SERIES. THIS IS BS. This team should not be in 2nd place.Speaking of absolute, should be institutionalized lunatics... :rolleyes:

FarWestChicago
05-19-2006, 10:16 PM
It seems like I'll be around forever, but I have an excuse. I've become addicted to "Fantasy Island".

:cool:That and your posts about the Sox are more sane than 99.99% of the psychotics around here. :redneck

RadioheadRocks
05-19-2006, 10:19 PM
Losing 2 of 3 to the Devils in May on the road is one thing. Losing 2 of 3 to the Devils AT HOME DURING THE FINAL WEEK OF THE SEASON is another. [See '05 Cleve. Indians for reference]


Thank you... my sentiments exactly! See my post at the end of page 1 of yesterday's post-game thread
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71625