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View Full Version : A MUST READ The Big Bam : The Life and Times of Babe Ruth


Fenway
05-16-2006, 04:56 PM
Get this book that just came out. Best baseball read I have had in years.

The author could not pin down if Ruth was indeed black, but could not deny it either

also WW1 was the main reason Ruth became a batter instead staying as a pitcher because Boston had lost so many position players to the war

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0385514379.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_V55581114_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0385514379/ref=dp_image_0/103-6687824-3103006?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)

Vernam
05-16-2006, 05:46 PM
Fenway, did you read Creamer's bio of Ruth? My favorite part was the anecdote from Bob Meusel, his longtime roommate, regarding the Babe's sexual prowess with late-night female visitors. (Probably not suitable to paraphrase it here, unfortunately.) Another great one was that Ruth used to get invited to high-society events and always felt out of place. At one snobby dinner, the hostess passed him a plate of asparagus. Babe very politely declined: "No thanks, m'a'am. Asparagus makes my urine smell." Still cracks me up everytime . . .

Thanks for the heads-up on Montville's book.

Vernam

DickAllen72
05-16-2006, 05:49 PM
The author could not pin down if Ruth was indeed black, but could not deny it either


Was the author able to pin down if he was Chinese, Hispanic or Filipino?

Fenway
05-16-2006, 08:30 PM
Was the author able to pin down if he was Chinese, Hispanic or Filipino?

This is no joke. Rumors about Ruth have existed back to his playing days. Montville in an interview stated it was the one thing he hoped to answer with this book but he couldn't pin it down. However

At St Mary's his nickname from the day he entered the school was the N word. Ty Cobb was convinced he was black. Very simply, little is known about Babe's mother and only one picture of her exists and it is a fuzzy group photo that does nothing to refute the rumor. Montville simply says that what a delicious irony it would be if the man who saved baseball after 1919 was indeed of black heritage. Keep in mind we didn't know Ted Williams was Hispanic until 10 years ago when Ted himself admitted it.

If you enjoyed Montville's book on Williams you will likewise enjoy this book on Ruth. Montville says it is intended for the ESPN generation.

TornLabrum
05-16-2006, 10:22 PM
This is no joke. Rumors about Ruth have existed back to his playing days. Montville in an interview stated it was the one thing he hoped to answer with this book but he couldn't pin it down. However

At St Mary's his nickname from the day he entered the school was the N word. Ty Cobb was convinced he was black. Very simply, little is known about Babe's mother and only one picture of her exists and it is a fuzzy group photo that does nothing to refute the rumor. Montville simply says that what a delicious irony it would be if the man who saved baseball after 1919 was indeed of black heritage. Keep in mind we didn't know Ted Williams was Hispanic until 10 years ago when Ted himself admitted it.

If you enjoyed Montville's book on Williams you will likewise enjoy this book on Ruth. Montville says it is intended for the ESPN generation.

Does that mean it's superficial crap with all kinds of factual errors, just like ESPN?

ewokpelts
05-17-2006, 02:21 AM
so bonds already broke the white man's record?

HotelWhiteSox
05-17-2006, 03:23 AM
Saw some good quotes when looking at Ruth's Wikipedia entry. A few:

-I have only one superstition...Touch all the bases when I hit a home run.

-I'd play for half my salary if I could hit in this dump all the time (Speaking of Wrigley Field)

-I didn't mean to hit the umpire with the dirt, but I did mean to hit that bastard in the stands.

EastCoastSoxFan
05-17-2006, 10:07 AM
I remember reading in a baseball anecdote book once that a former teammate, when asked to tell some stories about Babe Ruth, replied, "Which ones do you want -- the funny ones or the true ones?"

getonbckthr
05-17-2006, 10:20 AM
so bonds already broke the white man's record?
:rolling::kneeslap:

Procol Harum
05-17-2006, 11:46 AM
If the "truth" was to come out that Babe Ruth was "black" it would only mirror the fact that in America's racist past one drop of African blood has traditionally been enough to make one "black." IF...and I mean IF...Ruth's mother was "black" she was probably of very mixed blood (what folks in the "community" have long referred to as "high yaller") making him probably only 1/8th or 1/16th African-American at best. A similar genealogical/genetic parallel in modern-day equivalence would be Bronson Arroyo being counted as "Hispanic" just like Pudge Rodriguez or Ozzie.

All that aside, I don't see anything about Ruth's facial features that wouldn't be consistent with that of folks from certain parts of Germany from whence he claimed ancestry.

D. TODD
05-17-2006, 12:05 PM
If the "truth" was to come out that Babe Ruth was "black" it would only mirror the fact that in America's racist past one drop of African blood has traditionally been enough to make one "black." IF...and I mean IF...Ruth's mother was "black" she was probably of very mixed blood (what folks in the "community" have long referred to as "high yaller") making him probably only 1/8th or 1/16th African-American at best. A similar genealogical/genetic parallel in modern-day equivalence would be Bronson Arroyo being counted as "Hispanic" just like Pudge Rodriguez or Ozzie.

All that aside, I don't see anything about Ruth's facial features that wouldn't be consistent with that of folks from certain parts of Germany from whence he claimed ancestry. Some accounts I have read point to his facial features, especially the nose and mouth areas as being consistent with African features. This is where his infamous "N" or "N" lips nickname is said to come from. In any case if he were 1/2 black it wouldn't matter today, but back then it sure would of. He would be battling Josh Gibson for home run crowns not seting MLB records.

Railsplitter
05-17-2006, 12:31 PM
One of Ruth roomamates once said "I didn't room with the Babe,I roomed with his luggage"

Vernam
05-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Some accounts I have read point to his facial features, especially the nose and mouth areas as being consistent with African features. This is where his infamous "N" or "N" lips nickname is said to come from. In any case if he were 1/2 black it wouldn't matter today, but back then it sure would of. He would be battling Josh Gibson for home run crowns not seeting MLB records.To say I'm uncomfortable with this line of discussion is putting it mildly, but the Creamer book on Ruth carries a larger version of the following photo, which shows young Babe tending bar in his dad's saloon. Look carefully: That's not the Babe at right, it's his dad, who looks like a spitting image.

http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr1101/hunt1202_father.jpg
Just saying, I'd be careful about inferring where he got his facial characteristics.

Vernam

D. TODD
05-17-2006, 01:37 PM
The Babe would definitely have trouble with the media today. He would defy his managers and loved to bring attention to himself whenever possible. Way ahead of his time for posing and admiring his homers. His off the field activities would bring many tabloid type articles as well. One famous story has Babe being chased buck naked through a train filled with reporters by a woman wielding a knife. Reporters now would have a field day with this, but then it was none of their business as sports reporters to write about. He would be shown as an example of what's wrong with the modern athlete by the media and they would love having him to fill their pages on and off the field.

D. TODD
05-17-2006, 01:43 PM
To say I'm uncomfortable with this line of discussion is putting it mildly, but the Creamer book on Ruth carries a larger version of the following photo, which shows young Babe tending bar in his dad's saloon. Look carefully: That's not the Babe at right, it's his dad, who looks like a spitting image.

http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr1101/hunt1202_father.jpg
Just saying, I'd be careful about inferring where he got his facial characteristics.

Vernam I agree it is a poor way to infer anything, but it is out there in more then a few books. I wonder how much it would be for a cold one from Babe's old man.:gulp:

TornLabrum
05-17-2006, 11:04 PM
I agree it is a poor way to infer anything, but it is out there in more then a few books. I wonder how much it would be for a cold one from Babe's old man.:gulp:

Back then? Just about a nickel.

fuzzy_patters
05-17-2006, 11:35 PM
This is no joke. Rumors about Ruth have existed back to his playing days. Montville in an interview stated it was the one thing he hoped to answer with this book but he couldn't pin it down. However

At St Mary's his nickname from the day he entered the school was the N word. Ty Cobb was convinced he was black. Very simply, little is known about Babe's mother and only one picture of her exists and it is a fuzzy group photo that does nothing to refute the rumor. Montville simply says that what a delicious irony it would be if the man who saved baseball after 1919 was indeed of black heritage. Keep in mind we didn't know Ted Williams was Hispanic until 10 years ago when Ted himself admitted it.

If you enjoyed Montville's book on Williams you will likewise enjoy this book on Ruth. Montville says it is intended for the ESPN generation.

I do not think that is correct. Everything that I have read says that Ruth's mother's family came from Germany. It is his father's family that is said to have been black. They just kind of appeared in Baltimore in the mid-nineteenth century and little is known about where they came from.

fuzzy_patters
05-17-2006, 11:37 PM
I found a link (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0501/page051501.asp) that discusses the varying viewpoints about Ruth's supposed blackness.

ewokpelts
05-18-2006, 09:44 AM
I found a link (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0501/page051501.asp) that discusses the varying viewpoints about Ruth's supposed blackness.Just get Undercover Brother to help out.

http://myspace-338.vo.llnwd.net/00220/83/38/220218338_m.gif

Fenway
05-18-2006, 12:45 PM
I do not think that is correct. Everything that I have read says that Ruth's mother's family came from Germany. It is his father's family that is said to have been black. They just kind of appeared in Baltimore in the mid-nineteenth century and little is known about where they came from.

Montville points out that very little about Ruth's early ears is on file. All the records at St Mary's were lost in 1919 and Ruth himself seldom talked about his early years.

Ruth said he had an older brother, his sister said no. Montville used many old interviews from previous authors plus much from Jerome Holtzman's records.

One thing Montville is a stickler for is accuracy.

Fenway
05-18-2006, 07:21 PM
another interesting question

Why did Ruth when he first settled in Boston choose a rooming house mostly occupied by Pullman workers. Now it could be it was the first one he saw leaving Back Bay Station but who knows? In any event Babe certainly enjoyed barnstorming against the best Negro players. Outside of digging him up, we will never know for sure.