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Lip Man 1
05-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Much has been made of the issue here at WSI. Hangar, of course, pays particular attention to this. Given the latest comments about WSCR programming on Saturday and the John Rooney situation, I had a long conversation with two people who personally know something about these issues.

First off is this e-mail I received from my friend who works at WSCR radio. I will not give their name and I remind everyone this is their personal opinion. It does not reflect station management or station policy. This individual is a good White Sox fan and I think a pretty damn good broadcaster. I submit this as I received it, for your examination and discussion.

"Well, Mark, it is interesting to an extent, though I think, this is one situation where the posters still don't have the facts right. The Score did not lowball Rooney. Rooney wouldn't have even been paid by the Score. The broadcast team of Farmer and Singleton is paid by the Sox...they are team employees.

The Score may help in the search but it is NOT the station's final say. Rooney wanted that Cardinals job. I don't know if they would have gotten him to stay with a reasonable offer. And I'm not sure if it's ever possible to get people to understand that.

As for Hub, I did not hear him say that, but if he did, I guess that's his opinion. Good luck to his trainwreck ballcub.

As for the amount of Sox discussion, there is something to remember: the Score is first and foremost a Sports station...meaning they cater to all teams in town. The Cubs can't be ignored. However, the station is biased toward the Sox as they should be.

The reality of the situation is that no matter how good the Sox are at this time, the Cubs still draw more interest in the city. That is typically obvious in the number of listener phone calls to the Score when a Cubs topic is thrown out compared to a Sox topic. I wish it were the other way around -- and it could change in the future -- but it's not yet.

Plus, I will concede that a vastly underachieving team with a massive payroll is a bigger story at the moment. Especially, when they aren't just losing...they're getting destroyed. And the manager is on the fans' hot seat yet may get an extension. That, in itself, is worthy of a lot of talk. It's not as simple as questioning the coverage of a first place team opposed to a 5th place team. It's a little more complicated than that. You have to look at the circumstances of the team's position.

All that being said, the Sox monopolize the majority of time on the station. The particular Saturday in question featured the 2 hour Sox Weekly show, the 30 minute pregame, the 3 hour game, the 1+ hour postgame, not to mention the other times the Sox are talked about during the day. It's a fairly large portion of the day devoted to one team.

It would be a mistake for the Score to talk ONLY Sox all day long.

I know Hangar. I've met him and I think he's a solid guy, but he's WAY too concerned with the media coverage of the Sox. I read one person say that other than opening day, there hasn't been much Sox coverage during the course of each day. That's entirely inaccurate, because I know of one day, for example, that we had Sox coverage from 10am straight until 6pm.

The assessment that the Score is "all Cubs fans" is also grossly incorrect. With the exception of Murph, Hub and Olken...it's pretty much all Sox fans. North, Fred, Mully, Holmes, Bernstein, Boers, Rongey."

-----

Now I also had a long conversation with a former White Sox announcer. He worked both TV and radio and knows John Rooney. The conversation took place Saturday night.

According to this individual Rooney has always been a Cardinals fan, it was always his desire to someday return to the team he grew up rooting for.

According to my friend this was fine, they didn't have a problem with that type of attitude. It was to be expected. Left unsaid because they simply don't know, is what kind of an offer it would have taken to keep Rooney. It's possible that nothing, except an outlandishly high offer, would have done so since he appeared to be dead set to someday return home. My broadcasting friend also inquired as to how the team of Farmer-Singleton was being received and I told him your opinions (generally negative.) They weren't surprised in the sense that they said Ed Farmer is simply 'to dry' for a play by play man but that he was very good as an analyst.

Again all this is submitted for discussion. I appreciate the fact that both of my friends were willing to speak clearly and candidly on these issues based on their understandings.

Lip

Hangar18
05-15-2006, 04:54 PM
very interesting. I think whats missing is the fact that, when youve "trained" an audience for 20 years to expect just cubtalk, thats what your going to get. A jackass like Hub Arkush is simply further mythologizing the "fact" there are more cub fans. Theyre used to the total domination. If the station simply held the ground (and say gave us 60/40) of the total coverage, you may see some headway being gained.

TDog
05-15-2006, 05:16 PM
I can't (and wouldn't anyway) listen to sports radio in Chicago, but from the description of the Cubs talk, it sounds like there is a lot of negativity being directed toward the team.

I am guessing that some Sox fans would be complaining if sports radio in Chicago were ripping on the Sox.

Dick Allen
05-15-2006, 05:30 PM
Lip, thanks for passing this along. I think we all know that during Sox broadcasts plus pre- and post- game shows, of course it is all Sox. For the past month, however, the Cubs have had a large majority of the regular programming conversations. I say this simply because whenever I do tune in, which is not always at the same time each day, they're talking about the Cubs. Unless I just have bad luck tuning in at the wrong times, which I don't think is the case. As far as more Cub fans calling in when cub topics are brought up, I could understand that mainly because Sox fans don't have anything to complain about. It doesn't mean that the Sox fans don't like to at least listen to Sox talk, even though there may not be a large volume of Sox callers. This also may be a chicken-egg situation too, especially with hosts like Murphy who will change any topic of conversation over to the Cubs in a heartbeat. As far as Rooney, I could understand that the Score was behind the 8-ball as far as trying to get him to return. But I think we all feel that they could have done much better than Farmer and Singleton. A World Series champion and their fans deserve better. And I had thought that the Score hired announcers with the Sox approval, not the other way around. Either way, we deserve better.

maurice
05-15-2006, 05:41 PM
I don't think I've been involved in this topic, but here's my 2 cents.

"Well, Mark, it is interesting to an extent, though I think, this is one situation where the posters still don't have the facts right....

It's ridiculous to attribute this to "posters." The source of this information is Rooney himself. The Sox also repeatedly claimed that they had no control over pay / hiring / rehiring. The only way "the posters have the facts wrong" is if Rooney, Brooks, etc. are all liars. I suppose that's possible, but I'll go with the on-record statements of major players over your unnamed source.

Plus, I will concede that a vastly underachieving team with a massive payroll is a bigger story at the moment.

This is becoming the standard response. Unfortunately, it's a major copout. When Hangar started his MediaWatch, the response was that the Cubs were the story because they allegedly were more successful. Now they're the main story because they're less successful. That's total BS. Moreover, both teams have a "massive payroll." Cub fans would have a bigger gripe if the Cubs' payroll were small, since the revenues are immense.

I know of one day, for example, that we had Sox coverage from 10am straight until 6pm.

This is a completely worthless statement. Argument through vague anecdote. This has less weight than Poster X saying "The Score is pro-Cub, because I tuned in several times yesterday and they were talking Cubs every time." My hypothetical statement also is worthless, but at least I provided a date.

I appreciate your efforts to get info from these folks, Lip, but it sounds like they're in full spin control. "Losing = more coverage"? *****. I expect that kind of nonsense from the Trib hacks, but this is ridiculous.

Trav
05-15-2006, 05:44 PM
Lip, thanks for finally put an end to the debate. No one had a solid answer as to who paid Rooney. It doesn't suprise me that the Sox let a HOF leave. Who knows if they even tried to keep him.

SOecks
05-15-2006, 05:45 PM
Thanks for the time and effort, Lip. Good stuff.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2006, 05:48 PM
Dick:

I can only pass along the information that I get. According to my friend, the Sox hired those guys, they work for them, they collect their paychecks at 333 W. 35th Street. WSCR radio had only limited input in making recommendations.

It would explain why Brooks was so adamently defending Chris in that story a few weeks ago in the Sun-Times (?)

Regarding Sox coverage. If I understand you correctly you want more Sox talk over and above the expected game coverage. (which still counts in the total programming hours devoted to each team...)

Understandable.

I guess this is where the 'business' factor comes in. If Reinsdorf owned the station (which is something that I recently saw suggested by No.2 or Hal or Roman) then he could do as he wished (much like WGN-AM). However he doesn't which means WSCR radio has to try to base their programming to appeal to the masses. (My friend's position...) From what I understand their ratings haven't been the best (at least that's what I read) if that's true then programming stickly Sox-talk means bankruptcy for them. They would simply never get the sponsors or high enough ratings to survive.

Is that right given the Cubs have their own station...no. But it's a business reality until such time as the Sox (or Hangar! LOL) are willing to purchase them.

I think it would be interesting to see the Sox form their own network much like the Yankees, Mets and Indians. That could be the wave of the future so it may happen sooner rather then later.

Lip

maurice
05-15-2006, 05:50 PM
I think we all feel that they could have done much better than Farmer and Singleton. A World Series champion and their fans deserve better.

Excellent point. I mentioned this the other day in a different forum:
Many minor-league radio broadcasts are available on the Internet this year. I've been listening to different minor-league towns for several weeks now, and it's disturbing to learn that the minor-league radio announcers in places like Knoxville, TN and Ft. Mill, SC are significantly better than the radio announcers for the defending champs. It's not a money issue, since Farmer/Rooney certainly get paid more than most or all of the minor-league announcers.

Brooks stated that he feels responsible / defensive for the Singleton hiring, because he recommended him to the Score.

jdm2662
05-15-2006, 05:54 PM
Lip, great info as always. No matter what you scoop up, you are still aren't going convince some people otherwise. Nothing will change in that regards. I will agree there is a media bias with the Cubs being owned by the Tribune Company. However, to be honost, they can have all of it. It's better to be the champs, then worrying about being liking something that is susposed to be "cool".

I will comment on Hub is that he's always been an arrogant, snobby, pompous jerk. I couldn't stand him in the Bears booth, hosting the coaches show, and he sucks hosting PFW. How he's a regular host on the station after being ridiculed over and over again on the station is beyond me.

PicktoCLick72
05-15-2006, 06:49 PM
Great job Lip. Hopefully this settles a few of the ongoing arguements on this board.

TheOldRoman
05-15-2006, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the update, Lip. This just shows what I said before: Rooney wasn't coming back, and it wasn't about the money. Rooney had a deal worked out with the Cardinals in which they would fire their announcer after the season was over, and Rooney would get the job. Rooney lead the Sox on (at least publically), saying he hoped to work things out, but he knew all along that he would replace the soon-to-be fired Cards broadcaster. Nothing the Score or the Sox could have done would have made him stay.

CLR01
05-15-2006, 07:37 PM
Thanks for the update, Lip. This just shows what I said before: Rooney wasn't coming back, and it wasn't about the money. Rooney had a deal worked out with the Cardinals in which they would fire their announcer after the season was over, and Rooney would get the job. Rooney lead the Sox on (at least publically), saying he hoped to work things out, but he knew all along that he would replace the soon-to-be fired Cards broadcaster. Nothing the Score or the Sox could have done would have made him stay.


Fine but if his plan was to leave all along, or if it was the Sox who pushed him out, what is his beef with WSCR?

That comes from Rooney's mouth about 2 weeks ago.

Tragg
05-15-2006, 07:45 PM
Plus, I will concede that a vastly underachieving team with a massive payroll is a bigger story at the moment.
I don't know anything about Chicago media, but that's a clear "heads I win, tails you lose" explanation...a justification for anything can be spun.

As far as Rooney goes, I would just wonder why they didn't go out and hire a professional and experienced replacement.

thepaulbowski
05-15-2006, 07:53 PM
The reality of the situation is that no matter how good the Sox are at this time, the Cubs still draw more interest in the city. That is typically obvious in the number of listener phone calls to the Score when a Cubs topic is thrown out compared to a Sox topic. I wish it were the other way around -- and it could change in the future -- but it's not yet.

I call shenanigans on this statement. I haven't listened to the Score in years because of the times I tried to call in I was told they weren't talking about the Sox. I haven't listen to that joke of a station because everytime I turned on the radio they were talking about the Cubs. I haven't listened to the Score because most of the on air hosts suck. I bet I'm not the only one who has given up on this joke of a sports station. I find much of the syndicated stuff on ESPN 1000 to be more entertaining than the Score.

There is a reason their ratings suck. They have driven away many of the people who used to listen to them.

Irishsox1
05-15-2006, 08:04 PM
I disagree on the whole "Cubs Town" argument. In the city and suburbs it's about 53% Cubs - 47% Sox, with the Cubs having a slight advantage due to the Tribune Corp. Outside of Chicago, it's not even close, the Cubs have a national following because of the old WGN televised games and the popularity of The Urinal. I'll give them that. But last time I checked, the Score was a Chicago sports talk station and not ESPN.

As for Rooney, yea, I'll miss him, but the entertainment is on the field, not in the booth....something the Tribune Corporation forgot when they put a statute of drunken Harry in front of the Urinal!

soxruleEP
05-15-2006, 09:48 PM
I generally do not tune in the Score unlessI am in the car during a ball game.

But I must say, that when I do sample them during other times, I am forced to find alternative programing. Mike North is simply insulting to any person of greater intelligence and sensativity than the average troglodyte, Murphy's sins are well documented on this board, and B&B's general homophobia and insufferable superiority make them unlistenable.

Luckilly I have XM.

Brian26
05-15-2006, 10:07 PM
The broadcast team of Farmer and Singleton is paid by the Sox...they are team employees.

I've been telling people this since last September when the news broke. I wish I had the time to go back and dig up the threads where I was raked over the coals. Of course the broadcasters are paid for by the Sox. It has always been this way and always will be.

SouthSide_HitMen
05-15-2006, 10:27 PM
Dick:

I can only pass along the information that I get. According to my friend, the Sox hired those guys, they work for them, they collect their paychecks at 333 W. 35th Street. WSCR radio had only limited input in making recommendations.

It would explain why Brooks was so adamently defending Chris in that story a few weeks ago in the Sun-Times (?)


YES - Posters were continuously shot down by others claiming the White Sox do not hire the broadcasters but have veto or some limited say as to who they are when this all went down last August / September. This also explains why Boyer attacked the fans who give an accurate opinion on how the new broadcast team is doing - God Awful. It isn't the fault of the posters that the spin from the White Sox was all of these decisions from Rooney leaving to Singleton arriving are all out of their hands.

The question left unanswered is whether John Rooney would have stayed with an offer that at least was at market level for the quality he provided in a top media market for over a decade. Regardless there are 100s of experienced professionals who were not even considered for the job (the same as the organ booth for night games) who would have loved the chance to come to a major media market to work for the World Champions.

While Sox fans are forever grateful Kenny Williams was / is allowed to put a quality product on the field. The marketing side of the team has been at the total opposite end of the spectrum - from canning Rooney and replacing him with Farmer (who I also agree was OK as an analyst but not suited for PBP) and an inexperienced marginal player (making the score 4 Jocks, 0 Professionals) to not replacing Nancy for night games - there are little if anything to boast about on the actual presentation of the games to the public.

Well at least these are decisions made by and benefiting Notre Dame grads which he can hear Farmer go on about for the next half hour. :rolleyes:


Thanks again Lip for doing more reporting here from over 2,000 miles away then the entire press box at the sell, I mean Cell.

SSHM

gobears1987
05-15-2006, 10:32 PM
The reason Cub topics draw more calls than Sox topics is the same reason that the postgame thread after a loss has 2-3 times more posts than one after a win. We are more likely to go out of our way to express our opinion when we are upset than when we don't have a care in the world.

MadetoOrta
05-15-2006, 10:51 PM
The cubs losing is a bigger story this year BECAUSE WE WON THE WORLD SERIES. Go read the articles in spring training about "Red Sox, White Sox,.....it's the cubs turn this year." After they won a few games early on most media actually bought into it. The venom spewing from cubs fans is as much from the fact that we won the World Series, have the best team in baseball and they're horrible. If we were a .500 team, it would be business [getting drunk and ignoring the game] as usual. The 2005 World Series changed that. KW's right, we need to win the World Series twice to truly take over this town. If it happens this year and the cubs lose 90, there will be a new sheriff in town.

rwcescato
05-15-2006, 11:06 PM
Dick:

I can only pass along the information that I get. According to my friend, the Sox hired those guys, they work for them, they collect their paychecks at 333 W. 35th Street. WSCR radio had only limited input in making recommendations.

It would explain why Brooks was so adamently defending Chris in that story a few weeks ago in the Sun-Times (?)

Regarding Sox coverage. If I understand you correctly you want more Sox talk over and above the expected game coverage. (which still counts in the total programming hours devoted to each team...)

Understandable.

I guess this is where the 'business' factor comes in. If Reinsdorf owned the station (which is something that I recently saw suggested by No.2 or Hal or Roman) then he could do as he wished (much like WGN-AM). However he doesn't which means WSCR radio has to try to base their programming to appeal to the masses. (My friend's position...) From what I understand their ratings haven't been the best (at least that's what I read) if that's true then programming stickly Sox-talk means bankruptcy for them. They would simply never get the sponsors or high enough ratings to survive.

Is that right given the Cubs have their own station...no. But it's a business reality until such time as the Sox (or Hangar! LOL) are willing to purchase them.

I think it would be interesting to see the Sox form their own network much like the Yankees, Mets and Indians. That could be the wave of the future so it may happen sooner rather then later.

Lip

Hey Mark,
The Sox did own there own station, tv that is with sportsvision and on tv as you probably remember. That was aheadf of its time and killed the sox from the WGN days which help them fall off of publicity. It ended up being an achilles heel. Oh well thats all past now.
GO SOX!!!!
Rich

sullythered
05-15-2006, 11:16 PM
Meh, I only listen to B and B on a regular basis, and those guys are split time-wise Cubs/Sox. And Dan is a big Sox fan. Hub is a waste, always has been. I didn't understand his employment with the Bears, and I still don't (with the Score.)

JB98
05-15-2006, 11:23 PM
The cubs losing is a bigger story this year BECAUSE WE WON THE WORLD SERIES. Go read the articles in spring training about "Red Sox, White Sox,.....it's the cubs turn this year." After they won a few games early on most media actually bought into it. The venom spewing from cubs fans is as much from the fact that we won the World Series, have the best team in baseball and they're horrible. If we were a .500 team, it would be business [getting drunk and ignoring the game] as usual. The 2005 World Series changed that. KW's right, we need to win the World Series twice to truly take over this town. If it happens this year and the cubs lose 90, there will be a new sheriff in town.

Good point. The **** that's going on 8.1 miles to the North right now is the same **** that's been going on for the last 98 years. The only difference this year is it comes against the backdrop of a World Series champion playing on the other side of town. What's the thing most precious to the Cubs and their faithful? Answer: Their popularity. Right now, the Cubs popularity is dying a slow death, and the fans up there aren't happy about it. If 2006 turns into a repeat of 2005 (crosses fingers), this will become a Sox town. Book it.

chaerulez
05-16-2006, 12:10 AM
Much has been made of the issue here at WSI. Hangar, of course, pays particular attention to this. Given the latest comments about WSCR programming on Saturday and the John Rooney situation, I had a long conversation with two people who personally know something about these issues.

First off is this e-mail I received from my friend who works at WSCR radio. I will not give their name and I remind everyone this is their personal opinion. It does not reflect station management or station policy. This individual is a good White Sox fan and I think a pretty damn good broadcaster. I submit this as I received it, for your examination and discussion.

"Well, Mark, it is interesting to an extent, though I think, this is one situation where the posters still don't have the facts right. The Score did not lowball Rooney. Rooney wouldn't have even been paid by the Score. The broadcast team of Farmer and Singleton is paid by the Sox...they are team employees.

The Score may help in the search but it is NOT the station's final say. Rooney wanted that Cardinals job. I don't know if they would have gotten him to stay with a reasonable offer. And I'm not sure if it's ever possible to get people to understand that.

As for Hub, I did not hear him say that, but if he did, I guess that's his opinion. Good luck to his trainwreck ballcub.

As for the amount of Sox discussion, there is something to remember: the Score is first and foremost a Sports station...meaning they cater to all teams in town. The Cubs can't be ignored. However, the station is biased toward the Sox as they should be.

The reality of the situation is that no matter how good the Sox are at this time, the Cubs still draw more interest in the city. That is typically obvious in the number of listener phone calls to the Score when a Cubs topic is thrown out compared to a Sox topic. I wish it were the other way around -- and it could change in the future -- but it's not yet.

Plus, I will concede that a vastly underachieving team with a massive payroll is a bigger story at the moment. Especially, when they aren't just losing...they're getting destroyed. And the manager is on the fans' hot seat yet may get an extension. That, in itself, is worthy of a lot of talk. It's not as simple as questioning the coverage of a first place team opposed to a 5th place team. It's a little more complicated than that. You have to look at the circumstances of the team's position.

All that being said, the Sox monopolize the majority of time on the station. The particular Saturday in question featured the 2 hour Sox Weekly show, the 30 minute pregame, the 3 hour game, the 1+ hour postgame, not to mention the other times the Sox are talked about during the day. It's a fairly large portion of the day devoted to one team.

It would be a mistake for the Score to talk ONLY Sox all day long.

I know Hangar. I've met him and I think he's a solid guy, but he's WAY too concerned with the media coverage of the Sox. I read one person say that other than opening day, there hasn't been much Sox coverage during the course of each day. That's entirely inaccurate, because I know of one day, for example, that we had Sox coverage from 10am straight until 6pm.

The assessment that the Score is "all Cubs fans" is also grossly incorrect. With the exception of Murph, Hub and Olken...it's pretty much all Sox fans. North, Fred, Mully, Holmes, Bernstein, Boers, Rongey."

-----

Now I also had a long conversation with a former White Sox announcer. He worked both TV and radio and knows John Rooney. The conversation took place Saturday night.

According to this individual Rooney has always been a Cardinals fan, it was always his desire to someday return to the team he grew up rooting for.

According to my friend this was fine, they didn't have a problem with that type of attitude. It was to be expected. Left unsaid because they simply don't know, is what kind of an offer it would have taken to keep Rooney. It's possible that nothing, except an outlandishly high offer, would have done so since he appeared to be dead set to someday return home. My broadcasting friend also inquired as to how the team of Farmer-Singleton was being received and I told him your opinions (generally negative.) They weren't surprised in the sense that they said Ed Farmer is simply 'to dry' for a play by play man but that he was very good as an analyst.

Again all this is submitted for discussion. I appreciate the fact that both of my friends were willing to speak clearly and candidly on these issues based on their understandings.

Lip

Great info man, I think it's obvious that the Sox pay the announcers. Isn't it Brooks that was commented saying "I think we got our man" in the Singleton hire? Why would Brooks be allowed to have a say in this if it was all up to WSCR for the hire? I don't think WSCR is stupid. They knew how popular Rooney was. Rooney-Farmer = more ratings. I think it's fair to say they gave him a fair offer. Maybe not as much as the Cards. Who knows, but I don't think the Score had any incentive to let Rooney walk, because like I said that more than likely would've resulted in higher ratings. Aren't Hawk and DJ employed and paid by the Sox? And aren't most announcers (tv or radio) hired and paid by the team around MLB?

chisoxfan64
05-16-2006, 12:11 AM
I could give a rats ass if they want to talk about the minor league team in town. But when I am (very rarely now) listening to the White Sox flagship station, I don`t think I should have to hear a pudd like Arkush ripping on the Sox.

slavko
05-16-2006, 12:40 AM
I distinctly remember JR being quoted as saying publicly that he intervened with the station (WSCR) so that Rooney would be offered a raise and not be paid in accordance with the reduced amount WSCR was paying for the rights compared to what WMVP paid. Some of the above information has to be wrong, or Sox personnel is plain old lying.

A few words on Hub: Arrogant, self-important, humorless, unprofessional, useless away from football, irritating. Plus the earring is an example of "old fart trying too hard to be cool."

PalehosePlanet
05-16-2006, 01:36 AM
Everyone is right on the money on Hub Arkush. In fact I cancelled my subscription to Pro Football Weekly about 6 years ago because he was such a pompous and overly opinionated ass. When anyone questioned any of his opinions he would immediately go into prick mode, get instantly defensive and pissed off. He is an unabashed Bears coaching staff ass-kisser, yet tries to come off as a tough interviewer who wants real answers. Whatever...

I hadn't a clue back then that he was a bitter Sox hater. Pathetic.

34rancher
05-16-2006, 06:47 AM
Interesting that on chicagosports.com (Cubune site) today, the poll is "who are you? a Sox fan or a Cubs fan?"
Currently, the beloved Sox lead 55.3% (5308 votes) to 44. 7% (4298 votes)...hmmm,, anyone else feel that cold breeze?

Hangar18
05-16-2006, 08:36 AM
I could give a rats ass if they want to talk about the minor league team in town. But when I am (very rarely now) listening to the White Sox flagship station, I don`t think I should have to hear a pudd like Arkush ripping on the Sox.

After looking at this thread yesterday, I decided to Tune in to the good folks over at the other teams Flagship station, WGN, to see what they would be talking about. Now mind you, I dont listen to WGN. I was a bit unnerved at the small-town mentality that station seems to have. People would call in always with the "im a die-hard cub fan" (never heard that before until the last 2 yrs) and blah blah blah we deserve better, dusty stinks, I never liked dusty (never heard that before until this year)
Not once all day, all nite, did they specifically talk about the SOX.

TomBradley72
05-16-2006, 09:06 AM
I used to care about all of this as much as anybody....now I think it's about 90% irrelevent...we've always known "the emperor has no clothes"...now the rest of the world knows it too. I hope NOTHING changes...I hope Hendry and Baker get lifetime contracts, I hope 39,000+ lemmings show up every day at the Shrine, I hope the Chad/Trixies of the world always choose the Cubs as their team, I hope the yahoos from Iowa always choose the Cubbies, and I hope the idiots in the media (Arkush, etc.) always are loyal to the Cubbies. Why? Because that way things WON'T change. The Cubs will continue their journey towards 100+ years of mediocre baseball and the White Sox (and their fans) will continue to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder....and that will lead to more championships, more rings, more banners, more joy for us and more misery for the Cubbies and their fans. :gulp:

PatK
05-16-2006, 09:10 AM
I beg to differ with the whole "listeners calls" excuse for why there is more Cubs talk.

Every time I've listened to Zach Zaidman, all he does is talk about the Cubs.

And he, along with anyone else, ASK FOR CUBS FANS TO CALL IN. It's not like they are taking random calls and going with them.

thepaulbowski
05-16-2006, 09:29 AM
What did Hub say that got everybody going?

jdm2662
05-16-2006, 09:48 AM
What did Hub say that got everybody going?

Well, it doesn't help I've can't stand the pompus jerk since the 80s. He makes no secert he's a Cub fan and hates the Sox. It's fine if he hates the Sox (a lot of Cubs fans do), but he was being a pompus ass (ala being himself) in the process. Now, it's just funny to hear it because you can accuse him of being jealous (which I love doing).

Dan Mega
05-16-2006, 09:49 AM
I beg to differ with the whole "listeners calls" excuse for why there is more Cubs talk.

Every time I've listened to Zach Zaidman, all he does is talk about the Cubs.

And he, along with anyone else, ASK FOR CUBS FANS TO CALL IN. It's not like they are taking random calls and going with them.

This is a conversation that actually took place once when I called the Score:

Me: Hi, I'd like to talk with the host regarding his past comments on the Sox bullpen
Man on the phone: We're only taking Cubs-related calls right now
Me: But its just a quick question
Man on the phone: A question about something that only 10 people in the city care about. Good day (click)

This is why I don't buy the "listeners calls" excuse either.

SOXPHILE
05-16-2006, 10:10 AM
Thanks for all the info Lip. Informative and interesting, as always. I've always figured that Rooney had his heart set on going to St. Louis, regardless of what the Sox/WSCR offered him.

As far as the issues surrounding the Cubs & all the overwhelming coverage they still seem to get on sports talk radio, I don't buy their arguments either. The Sox won the Series, and currently have the best team in baseball, while the Cubs are circling the drain, and we are told that the Cubs are the bigger story because of payroll, expectations, etc. I guess talking and discussing issues about the winning, defending World Champs isn't good radio ? Again, flash back a few years. The Cubs were winning and the Sox were mediocre. Yet, talk radio was all Cubs, with only a few remarks about the Sox. We were told if the Sox start winning again, they will be the hot topic of conversation. Well ?? I also don't buy the excuse that "there are more Cub fans in the city, consequently, more people call in and steer the conversation towards them". Someone pointed out on this website a while ago that the city and surrounding 'burbs are probably something like 25% Sox fans, 25% Cub fans, and the other 50% or so just casual, bandwagon fans, who will go wherever seems to be the best, or hippest, happening place to be. Said "Bandwagon" has been parked at 1060 W. Addison for quite a while now, due to the bars, clubs and other attractions that surround Wrigley Field. It also as immense name recognition due to constant exposure and hyping by both print and electronic media. A certain host on the Score has correctly stated that most of those who go to Wrigley are not Cubs fans, but "Cubs Game" fans. I couldn't agree more. The throngs of backwards hat & pookah bead wearing frat boys; trixies in their pink Cub logo half shirts; yuppies and businessmen in their suits or sweaters tied over their shoulders; busloads of tourists from Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana, and other places who want to come to the big city and see specific attractions like Navy Pier, Sears Tower, Buckingham Fountain, and....Wrigley Field. While I agree that the Cubs have more (casual) fans around the country, in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs, I disagree. I think they are roughly the same. As much as I despise the Cubs and their "fans", I don't have a problem with them being talked about & discussed on sports radio. I realize there are fans of the team that want to talk about it. Where I get annoyed is when, in just the past week, every single show from 10 a.m. until 5, talks almost exclusively about the Cubs, and when asked why they don't talk more Sox,- (being the flagship station for a team with the baseball's best record)-
gets defensive and uses excuses like : "The Cubs are the story now", "We don't want to speculate on (Contreras) injuries", or "o.k., go ahead caller, talk to us about the Sox. Say something".

PatK
05-16-2006, 10:16 AM
What did Hub say that got everybody going?

I think his most recent was along the lines of someone saying something like "The Sox are on a two game losing streak" and Hub said "If there's any justice, it will turn into 20".

Hangar18
05-16-2006, 10:21 AM
This is a conversation that actually took place once when I called the Score:

Me: Hi, I'd like to talk with the host regarding his past comments on the Sox bullpen
Man on the phone: We're only taking Cubs-related calls right now
Me: But its just a quick question
Man on the phone: A question about something that only 10 people in the city care about. Good day (click)

This is why I don't buy the "listeners calls" excuse either.

Heres a conversation I had just yesterday ..............
(after being on hold for 30 minutes)
Hangar: Hi
Score: Hello, whats your name?
Hangar: Im Hangar
Score: OK. You want to talk about Dusty or the Cubs?
Hangar: Actually, I want to talk about the SOX. You guys have been talking Cub since Thursday. A little excessive dont you think ...considering the SOX are in 1st Place and that pathetic franchise is in 5th.
Score: Its a big story man
Hangar: The Cubs have been losing forever. Isnt this an OLD story? who cares they keep losing
Score: Sorry man, were just taking Cubcalls, stay tuned, we'll take SOX calls later on
Hangar: Wait .........I just want to..........(Score hangs up on me)

I was furious, I expect this from Murphy, but not the rest of the shows.
I tuned over to WGN immediately. They were talking about lobster, bbq, how to fix the cubs lineup and the Cubs in general. No mention of the SOX.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-16-2006, 10:22 AM
I appreciate your efforts to get info from these folks, Lip, but it sounds like they're in full spin control. "Losing = more coverage"? *****.
I completely agree. An anonymous source from WSCR says Rooney wouldn't sign anyway? And we're supposed to believe this person who won't even attach their name to the assertion? That sounds too much like the worst sort of sour grapes... bald-faced lie sour grapes.

Why not tell us how many Sox Fans work at the Cubune? Or how many wrongly accused bystanders are serving time in jail? Just ask 'em.

Sorry. I'll judge these people on what they DO, not what they say.
:cool:

Orta 4-6-3
05-16-2006, 10:38 AM
Thanks for sharing, Lip. So it seems Rooney pulled a Wayne Larivee.

Heffalump
05-16-2006, 10:44 AM
I used to care about all of this as much as anybody....now I think it's about 90% irrelevent...we've always known "the emperor has no clothes"...now the rest of the world knows it too. I hope NOTHING changes...I hope Hendry and Baker get lifetime contracts, I hope 39,000+ lemmings show up every day at the Shrine, I hope the Chad/Trixies of the world always choose the Cubs as their team, I hope the yahoos from Iowa always choose the Cubbies, and I hope the idiots in the media (Arkush, etc.) always are loyal to the Cubbies. Why? Because that way things WON'T change. The Cubs will continue their journey towards 100+ years of mediocre baseball and the White Sox (and their fans) will continue to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder....and that will lead to more championships, more rings, more banners, more joy for us and more misery for the Cubbies and their fans. :gulp:


This is really all that needs to be said. Anytime anyone talks about the cubs bias issue, this quote should automatically pop up on their computer screen.

thepaulbowski
05-16-2006, 11:05 AM
Sorry. I'll judge these people on what they DO, not what they say.
:cool:

Well they do suck at what they do, but they certainly do a great job of explaining why they do what they do. The Score is a joke. :rolleyes:

Maximo
05-16-2006, 11:17 AM
Lip:

As always, Lip, I appreciate your contributions to WSI and your willingness to share inside information. I usually find myself on the same side of the argument with you. However, many of us are apparently not looking at the same painting that your friend at the SCORE has described to you.

With regard to "Sox fans don't call"......I'll refer to "Chicken or the Egg" analogy that so many others have made reference to in the past.

As far as listing the Sox fans/Cub fans who work at the SCORE.....I find that list difficult to agree with......very difficult. Lip.....if you were here and listening to the SCORE everyday for the past week like a lot of WSI'ers......you wouldn't believe that most SCORE 'on-air' personalities were Sox fans, either.

It's not that the current plight of the Cubs is the hot topic of discussion at the moment so much.......it's the passion that every one of these so-called objective journalists demonstrate when they discuss the issue. They come across as being frustrated and pissed off. Only someone who gives a damn about something goes on rants like these guys do. For the 1 thousand and oneth time, I will resurrect what's been stated here before........if the Sox were going on this 'road to nowhere' tangent right now.......you'd hear practically nothing from the media in this town. The Sox mean very little to both the electronic and print media in Chicago. And that's a crock of **** because I do believe that there are just about as many Sox loyalists as Cub loyalists at the moment.

There are two professional baseball teams that are in Chicago. Both contribute to the social and economic welfare of the city and it's surrounding communities. They have been, and forever will be, important to the success of the future of this metropolitan area. It's a crime when the people who control the media in this town don't recognize one of those two teams. Not only a crime.....but a shame.

Lip Man 1
05-16-2006, 12:14 PM
This and that:

Brian:

There was a time, through perhaps the mid 70's, when announcers and reporters were compensated completely by the organizations they worked for. Not by the teams. That started to change in large part because of the advent of cable. Teams were buying into those, and having a vested financial interest, they felt it was proper to control in large part what was said or done.

That philosophy completely destroyed any possibility of fairness or unbiased commentary. The announcers knew who signed their paychecks...many of them had families so they were left in the breach.

Roger Kahn in his brilliant book 'The Boys Of Summer' gives a detailed look at what it was like to write for a newspaper covering a major league team in the mid 1950's. The newspaper paid for everything, from hotels to train tickets to meals. The MLB team paid for nothing. Therefore the reporter was free to say what they wished without possible ramifications.

Rich:

I guess it depends of your definition of 'owning' a station. SportsVision was not completely owned by Reinsdorf. It was a partnership among the Sox, Bulls, Sting and Blackhawks. I'm talking about 100% ownership of a property.

George (and others):

I'm not condemming nor defending the comments from the person who works at WSCR radio or the former Sox announcer.

The reason I have not revealed their names is because it was a private conversation that could help to clear up the 'controversy' surrounding John Rooney's departure. If they allow me to give you who they are, I'd be more then happy to. For now I don't want them to get into any type of potential trouble from their bosses. That doesn't mean what they said is controversial however you just never know. I don't want to even take the chance that someone could have their livelihood impacted.

All I can say is that the person I spoke with is a Sox-fan and is an 'on air' personality. They aren't someone who works in the back room, or is a director or a producer or someone who screens telephone calls.

For now you'll have to settle for that.

Lip

credefan24
05-16-2006, 12:30 PM
Can someone please explain to me why Hub Arkush, the editor of PRO FOOTBALL WEEKLY, gets to talk about baseball? He's out of his element.

I must concur, the Score is a joke.

SoxFanPrope
05-16-2006, 12:34 PM
Can someone please explain to me why Hub Arkush, the editor of PRO FOOTBALL WEEKLY, gets to talk about baseball? He's out of his element.

Probably the same reason most of us get to talk about baseball, football, basketball, hockey, soccer, music, art, television, movies, philosophy, books, etc, etc, etc.

I always hate the argument that goes, "He's never probably played sports in his life, so what does he know?" or, "He's a basketball guy, stop commenting on football." I have a friend who thinks he can do a better job than most people on the radio. Does he complain about it on a website, no. He is going to broadcasting school to get on the radio. I realize that is not feasible for most, but at least he is putting his money where his mouth is.

skobabe8
05-16-2006, 12:48 PM
Am I the only one who has never heard of Hub Arkush?

Chip Z'nuff
05-16-2006, 12:48 PM
Am I the only one who has never heard of Hub Arkush?

Consider yourself lucky!!

Fenway
05-16-2006, 12:51 PM
I've been saying this for months here and was ignored. St Louis was the dream job for Rooney and probably the only thing he would have left Chicago for. I also suspected the Sox paid the announcers salaries but wasn't 100% sure.

1951Campbell
05-16-2006, 01:04 PM
Plus, I will concede that a vastly underachieving team with a massive payroll is a bigger story at the moment. Especially, when they aren't just losing...they're getting destroyed. And the manager is on the fans' hot seat yet may get an extension. That, in itself, is worthy of a lot of talk. It's not as simple as questioning the coverage of a first place team opposed to a 5th place team. It's a little more complicated than that. You have to look at the circumstances of the team's position.


:rolling:

Translation: "heads, we'll cover the Cubs more; tails, we'll cover the Sox less. That's fair, guys, come on..."

gobears1987
05-16-2006, 01:10 PM
Am I the only one who has never heard of Hub Arkush?He's the McCaskey ass kisser who used to do play by play for Bears games on the radio. During postgame shows, he'd always defend McCaskey, Jauron, Schoop, and Wannstedt. I hated the SOB.

Hangar18
05-16-2006, 01:15 PM
Am I the only one who has never heard of Hub Arkush?


Cub Arkush - jamoke on radio who, despite being a journalist, cant keep his personal feelings to himself on the air, and has used the airtime to personally vent his anger and frustrations as to why the northside national league ball club isnt winning. Says Chicago deserves a World Series and a Championship among other things. Nobody told this clown to be a cub fan.

credefan24
05-16-2006, 01:32 PM
Cub Arkush - jamoke on radio who, despite being a journalist, cant keep his personal feelings to himself on the air, and has used the airtime to personally vent his anger and frustrations as to why the northside national league ball club isnt winning. Says Chicago deserves a World Series and a Championship among other things. Nobody told this clown to be a cub fan.

:rolling:

That's hilarious.

TommyJohn
05-16-2006, 06:34 PM
Lip:


It's not that the current plight of the Cubs is the hot topic of discussion at the moment so much.......it's the passion that every one of these so-called objective journalists demonstrate when they discuss the issue. They come across as being frustrated and pissed off. Only someone who gives a damn about something goes on rants like these guys do. For the 1 thousand and oneth time, I will resurrect what's been stated here before........if the Sox were going on this 'road to nowhere' tangent right now.......you'd hear practically nothing from the media in this town. The Sox mean very little to both the electronic and print media in Chicago. And that's a crock of **** because I do believe that there are just about as many Sox loyalists as Cub loyalists at the moment.

There are two professional baseball teams that are in Chicago. Both contribute to the social and economic welfare of the city and it's surrounding communities. They have been, and forever will be, important to the success of the future of this metropolitan area. It's a crime when the people who control the media in this town don't recognize one of those two teams. Not only a crime.....but a shame.


This reminds me of something Paul Ladewski, one of the few Sox backers
in the media in 2005 wrote in September, as Cleveland was threatening
to catch the White Sox:


Yet to hear the North Side-driven media tell it the last few days, the Sox wouldn't be in this predicament if they hadn't choked away a 15-game lead. Hellooooo. The Indians won a ridiculous 36 of their last 49 games, remember?

To say the least, the gloom-and-doomers are a far cry from the giddy bunch who flashed "Ya Gotta Believe" signs in the Wrigley Field press box only two years ago. There is no such joy at U.S. Cellular these days, only a bunch of long faces after Joe Crede hit his clutch home run in the middle game of the series. Ya Gotta Bereave, indeed....


Whether it's because of their anti-Jerry Reinsdorf sentiment or their Cubbie blue allegiance or whatever, it's time for the media to stop the embarrassment before they miss a good story. There's a heckuva division race in town, if you haven't noticed, and it's on the South Side.


I hope this isn't too much of the article...

harwar
05-17-2006, 06:59 AM
As far as Rooney goes, I would just wonder why they didn't go out and hire a professional and experienced replacement.

Thats all i ever asked for.
Singleton sounds like a guy who is practicing in the bathroom because he just won a contest to broadcast for a day in the booth.

ode to veeck
05-17-2006, 09:20 AM
As always Lip, thanks for the reportage back to WSI. However, the anonamous "on air" personality lost all credibility (to somewhere between CD and shoota), when he claimed that "Scrubs suck with an overblown payroll IS a bigger story." It doesn't pass the snicker test by a counrtry mile and never will.

tebman
05-17-2006, 09:52 AM
This really is fascinating. Thanks, Lip, for the insight from behind the curtain.

Several posters have already said it, and it's true: WSCR is not a good radio station ("a joke" was the term used that most aptly describes it). The program hosts are inarticulate and boorish. That was okay when the station started out as a 5000-watt, daytime-only station on 820. It was a neighborhood tavern of the air with no pretense of major-broadcast responsibility.

But after it moved through WJJD (1160) and WMAQ (670) like the Ebola virus, it found itself occupying a coveted 50,000-watt 1-A frequency with an 80-year history of public service and mid-continent service range. But it still behaves like it's the treehouse on Belmont Avenue it was when it started. Infinity/CBS bought it a few years ago but made no effort to class it up. In fact they made it worse by making the churlish and vapid Mike North the morning-drive host.

For myself, I only listen to the ball games. It's simply unlistenable the rest of the time, even if I agree with whoever's speaking. And I'm confident that the management there doesn't miss me for a moment -- their only goal is to maintain cash flow, and as long as they can sell commercials the cash flow will continue. WSCR is really a testament to the power of salesmanship, and has utterly nothing to do with the art of broadcasting or any semblance of public service. The Cubs are an easy topic that require no effort or insight, two words that you'll never hear spoken inside WSCR.