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soxwon
05-14-2006, 02:43 PM
3-1 *****cats in the 7th rain delay
im sick of this team.. i hate the tigers
we are slumping and they continue to win.
ever since we swept them... theyve been onfire
whats wrong with the indians, they cant beat anybody lately?

SoxEd
05-14-2006, 02:49 PM
Just wait 'til they play us next time.

3 games is not the end of the world. It's early in the season and we're still in first.

Don't succumb to your Fear and go over to the Dark (Cloud) Side just yet...

EdHerman12
05-14-2006, 03:57 PM
Regardless of what everyone's opinion is of Detroit's pitching, hitting, etc. we are in a good old fashioned race....yes there is a long way to go, but after watching these guys the past few weeks, they are legit. A win tonight would be a good idea. Leyland has got this team in the hunt.

GO SOX!

JUribe1989
05-14-2006, 04:09 PM
3-1 *****cats in the 7th rain delay
im sick of this team.. i hate the tigers
we are slumping and they continue to win.
ever since we swept them... theyve been onfire
whats wrong with the indians, they cant beat anybody lately?

We forget that just because we weren't watching a team a week ago, that doesn't mean that they weren't ever slumping. The Tigers lost 2 out of 3 from the Twinkies and were slumping also. They will come down the earth, just wait.

TDog
05-14-2006, 04:19 PM
I would rather stay farther ahead of Cleveland than maintain a lead over Detroit in May. I might not feel that way in September, but I think Cleveland has a more dangerous team.

Foulke You
05-14-2006, 04:20 PM
The Tigers are definitely hot right now but I would have to think they will hit a rough patch eventually as we have. They are definitely the biggest surprise team this year. I'm still not completely sold on them yet as contenders but they are definitely getting it done right now.

SoxxoS
05-14-2006, 04:21 PM
Legit like the '04 Royals?

Tigerclaw
05-14-2006, 04:23 PM
The Tigers followed a 3 game losing streak with a 4 game winning streak and finished the road trip 5-3 including a first ever sweep at the Jake. The Indians who have scored 6 runs per game so far this year scored just 6 runs total in the 3 games...I don't know when, but maybe some time soon they will get respect, but maybe not...everyone thought the Sox would come down to earth last year and they never did.

QCIASOXFAN
05-14-2006, 04:24 PM
The Tigers are definitely hot right now but I would have to think they will hit a rough patch eventually as we have. They are definitely the biggest surprise team this year. I'm still not completely sold on them yet as contenders but they are definitely getting it done right now.I think I am sold on them being in for the long hall. They have a few good starting pitchers (Bonderman and Kenny Rogers), they have a damn good lineup and they got a very good coaching staff who wants to win.

Foulke You
05-14-2006, 04:38 PM
I think I am sold on them being in for the long hall. They have a few good starting pitchers (Bonderman and Kenny Rogers), they have a damn good lineup and they got a very good coaching staff who wants to win.
If they are still on our heels in July, I'll be a 100% believer. The 2003 Royals and 2005 Orioles come to mind as teams that started out guns a blazin and sputtered in the 2nd half. I will admit that the Tigers have a better rotation than either of those two teams but it still shows that 6 weeks doesn't make a season.

PAPChiSox729
05-14-2006, 07:48 PM
If they are still on our heels in July, I'll be a 100% believer. The 2003 Royals and 2005 Orioles come to mind as teams that started out guns a blazin and sputtered in the 2nd half. I will admit that the Tigers have a better rotation than either of those two teams but it still shows that 6 weeks doesn't make a season.

Heck, IIRC, the Nationals were on pace to 100 games last year at the All Star break.

Tigerclaw
05-14-2006, 09:07 PM
Actually, the 2003 Royals had a great april, finishing 16-7, but fell to reality right away with a 10-19 May...they never got too far above .500 after that as they had hitting and no pitching and finished with 83 wins.

The Nationals last year, even when they were playing .600 baseball in July, had a run differential that was negative...they gave up more runs than they scored and that is always a recipe for .500 baseball or less. That is a clear case where run differential can help predict how a team will do...it was just a matter of time before that caught up with them. Winning with a negative run differential usually means a lot of luck is involved.

The Orioles last year truly had a great collapse. They played .600 baseball until the end of June and had a healthy run differential. They truly had a great collapse that can't be too common as they only ended up winning 74 games.

As of right now, the Tigers have the best run differential in the league and that is usually a good sign. The Royals followed a great april with a horrible May and were able to pretty much stay at .500 the rest of the way. The Nationals were winning games until the all-star break, but their run differential showed that it was a matter of time before they came to Earth. I don't see how those teams compare and reflect how the Tigers have played so far and can say they would follow a similar path. Their pitching has been too good so far.

Could they have a collapse like the Orioles? It's possible, although I think a lot of things would have to go wrong, I mean to play at almost a .600 clip by the all-star break and then finish with a .457 winning pct...that's a pretty huge collapse and I think that's rare. They could maybe fall down to earth and win 85-87 games, but it would be quite a fall to only win 4 more games than they did last year at this point.

oeo
05-14-2006, 11:10 PM
Could they have a collapse like the Orioles? It's possible, although I think a lot of things would have to go wrong, I mean to play at almost a .600 clip by the all-star break and then finish with a .457 winning pct...that's a pretty huge collapse and I think that's rare. They could maybe fall down to earth and win 85-87 games, but it would be quite a fall to only win 4 more games than they did last year at this point.

Like play some good ballclubs? As of now, the Tigers have played a total of 2 series against teams that stand at over .500 right now and are 3-4. Those three wins came against the Rangers who had a very tough start, and 3 of the losses came against, guess who? The White Sox.

Before I say the Tigers are for real, I want to see them get through their June schedule. In which they have to play the Yanks, Sox, Toronto, Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Houston.

Tigerclaw
05-14-2006, 11:25 PM
Like play some good ballclubs? As of now, the Tigers have played a total of 2 series against teams that stand at over .500 right now and are 3-4. Those three wins came against the Rangers who had a very tough start, and 3 of the losses came against, guess who? The White Sox.

Before I say the Tigers are for real, I want to see them get through their June schedule. In which they have to play the Yanks, Sox, Toronto, Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Houston.


The White Sox have had every bit as easy of a schedule so far as the Tigers have. The White Sox played the Blue Jays for three games, but how many games have they played against the Royals? Not to mention the fact that the Tigers have played 24 of their 38 games on the Road while the Sox have played more home games than road games. Regardless of who the Tigers have played, it's tough to play as well as they have on the road so far. Many on here still consider the Indians to be more of a threat than the Tigers this year, and at the same time won't consider the way the Tigers have played against them so far as significant...5-2 record so far. The Tigers road record is impressive as is their record in the division. June will be a good test though, I'm sure if they can have a .500 June or better they will get some respect on here.

NSSoxFan
05-14-2006, 11:28 PM
The White Sox have had every bit as easy of a schedule so far as the Tigers have. The White Sox played the Blue Jays for three games, but how many games have they played against the Royals? Not to mention the fact that the Tigers have played 24 of their 38 games on the Road while the Sox have played more home games than road games. Regardless of who the Tigers have played, it's tough to play as well as they have on the road so far. Many on here still consider the Indians to be more of a threat than the Tigers this year, and at the same time won't consider the way the Tigers have played against them so far as significant...5-2 record so far. The Tigers road record is impressive as is their record in the division. June will be a good test though, I'm sure if they can have a .500 June or better they will get some respect on here.

All I got to say about the Tigers is...bring it on.

CHISOXFAN13
05-14-2006, 11:34 PM
All I got to say about the Tigers is...bring it on.

Exactly. The Sox won a boatload of games against Cleveland last year and they'll do the same against the Tigers this season.

oeo
05-15-2006, 12:02 AM
The White Sox have had every bit as easy of a schedule so far as the Tigers have. The White Sox played the Blue Jays for three games, but how many games have they played against the Royals? Not to mention the fact that the Tigers have played 24 of their 38 games on the Road while the Sox have played more home games than road games. Regardless of who the Tigers have played, it's tough to play as well as they have on the road so far. Many on here still consider the Indians to be more of a threat than the Tigers this year, and at the same time won't consider the way the Tigers have played against them so far as significant...5-2 record so far. The Tigers road record is impressive as is their record in the division. June will be a good test though, I'm sure if they can have a .500 June or better they will get some respect on here.
I never said the Sox schedule was any more tough than the Tigers. But the Sox team and rotation has proven that they can beat good ballclubs, the Tigers have not. All I said is they are not proven in my book. And like the last two posters said, bring it on.

Tigerclaw
05-15-2006, 12:05 AM
Exactly. The Sox won a boatload of games against Cleveland last year and they'll do the same against the Tigers this season.


We shall see...The White Sox won 9 one run games against the Indians last year...many times those are games that can go either way...There are still 16 meetings between the Sox and Tigers this year and they should be good games...all three games in April were close. The Tigers have played very well since that last series and are probably a much more confident team now as they have sustained success. If the race is still very close in a couple weeks that series in Chicago should be fun and intense, I'm looking forward to it.

P.S. I apologize if my posts on here are annoying. I realize this is a White Sox forum. As a 23 year old who has followed the Tigers since '94, I have never seen the Tigers win more than 79 games and have suffered through many 100 loss seasons including the infamous 119 loss season in '03. In terms of baseball fans from my generation...I consider it harder to be a Tigers fan than a fan of most teams...even the Cubs have had pennant races and playoff teams in the last 12 years. Overall, It's frustrating sometimes to finally see the team play well and compete and be viewed as a fluke or a flash in the pan. I'm sure many fans on here can understand that feeling since many predicted the Sox to fail last year and they never did. I'm sure that gratification of proving everyone wrong was sweet and I hope that my generation of Tigers fans can feel that this year because we really do deserve it.

oeo
05-15-2006, 12:11 AM
We shall see...The White Sox won 9 one run games against the Indians last year...many times those are games that can go either way...There are still 16 meetings between the Sox and Tigers this year and they should be good games...all three games in April were close. The Tigers have played very well since that last series and are probably a much more confident team now as they have sustained success. If the race is still very close in a couple weeks that series in Chicago should be fun and intense, I'm looking forward to it.
The Tigers were also playing well when the Sox came to Detroit, and they put them into their little slump. The Sox haven't even played their best baseball yet, IMO, even when they were on an 8-game winning streak. Their rotation isn't quite there yet, the bullpen has been weak so far, and clutch hitting had been a real problem. The Tigers are clicking on all cylinders right now and are a half game behind the Sox. The Sox had to go and win a World Series before they were "proven" and still some people don't believe it. It's only May, they still need to prove that they are a contender.

Tigerclaw
05-15-2006, 12:32 AM
The Tigers were also playing well when the Sox came to Detroit, and they put them into their little slump. The Sox haven't even played their best baseball yet, IMO, even when they were on an 8-game winning streak. Their rotation isn't quite there yet, the bullpen has been weak so far, and clutch hitting had been a real problem. The Tigers are clicking on all cylinders right now and are a half game behind the Sox. The Sox had to go and win a World Series before they were "proven" and still some people don't believe it. It's only May, they still need to prove that they are a contender.

I disagree that the Tigers are clicking on all cylinders. Offensively the team has been inconsistent overall as they rely on homeruns to score most of the time. They have been fortunate to have players get hot at different times...shelton during the first half of april and now Magglio the last couple of weeks....shelton is starting to heat up again it seems.... If they can score more runs without hitting the home run as often they will be even better. The pitching has been main reason they have been doing as well as they have. I will agree that the Sox rotation hasn't been as good all the way around as it was last year, but the increase in offense has really made up any difference in pitching performance from last year. These things go in cycles and a team is rarely "running on all cylinders"...I would say that what the Indians did the second half of last year was an example of doing that. The White Sox are winning 2 out of every 3 games right now and if you think they will play much better than that then your expectations are incredible.

NSSoxFan
05-15-2006, 12:35 AM
The White Sox are winning 2 out of every 3 games right now and if you think they will play much better than that then your expectations are incredible.

We're the champs.

Tigerclaw
05-15-2006, 12:39 AM
We're the champs.

So that means they should be on a pace to win more than 108 games? A 9 game improvement over last years championship team?

Tigerclaw
05-15-2006, 12:43 AM
The White sox have had a good amount of clutch hitting, I don't buy that point either. That one game against the Mariners that went into extra innings...there was enough clutch hitting in that game to spread out over a couple of weeks....the Crede grand slam...the ozuna homer with 2 outs in the 9th...the game winning hit by Uribe...that's a lot of clutch hits just in one game...I doubt that was one of just a few clutch performances so far this year.

oeo
05-15-2006, 01:59 AM
The White sox have had a good amount of clutch hitting, I don't buy that point either. That one game against the Mariners that went into extra innings...there was enough clutch hitting in that game to spread out over a couple of weeks....the Crede grand slam...the ozuna homer with 2 outs in the 9th...the game winning hit by Uribe...that's a lot of clutch hits just in one game...I doubt that was one of just a few clutch performances so far this year.

They are not nearly as good as last year when it comes to getting hits to drive in baserunners in scoring position. Believe me when I say the Sox are not to the form that they can be.

Tigerclaw
05-15-2006, 02:51 AM
They are not nearly as good as last year when it comes to getting hits to drive in baserunners in scoring position. Believe me when I say the Sox are not to the form that they can be.

Now I know you don't know what you are talking about...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=7&seasonType=2&type=type1&sort=avg&split=39&season=2006

You can see for yourself that the Sox lead the league this year in average with runners in scoring position and OPS with runners in scoring position. They were tied for last in batting with runners in scoring position last year. With runners in scoring position and 2 outs, the Sox are 4th in the league. That shows to me, that the Sox are very opportunistic with runners in scoring position and are doing a lot better than last year at it. Offensively overall, the Sox are one of the top teams in the league right now and their pitching, while solid, hasn't been as good as last year. Last year the Sox had to scratch out runs and rely heavily on their starters while this year so far they are scoring a lot more runs and giving the pitchers some room to pitch. They are a lot closer to running on all cylinders than you think.

The Tigers on the other hand, are in the bottom third in the league with runners in scoring position and are only 8th in runs scored despite leading the league in home runs. Pitching is the number one reason the Tigers are doing as well as they are. If their hitting can pick it up when their pitching comes down to earth a little bit than they shouldn't skip a beat. They are not clicking on all cylinders though.

tebman
05-15-2006, 09:31 AM
The Tigers have played very well since that last series and are probably a much more confident team now as they have sustained success. If the race is still very close in a couple weeks that series in Chicago should be fun and intense, I'm looking forward to it.

P.S. I apologize if my posts on here are annoying. I realize this is a White Sox forum. As a 23 year old who has followed the Tigers since '94, I have never seen the Tigers win more than 79 games and have suffered through many 100 loss seasons including the infamous 119 loss season in '03. In terms of baseball fans from my generation...I consider it harder to be a Tigers fan than a fan of most teams...even the Cubs have had pennant races and playoff teams in the last 12 years. Overall, It's frustrating sometimes to finally see the team play well and compete and be viewed as a fluke or a flash in the pan. I'm sure many fans on here can understand that feeling since many predicted the Sox to fail last year and they never did. I'm sure that gratification of proving everyone wrong was sweet and I hope that my generation of Tigers fans can feel that this year because we really do deserve it.
Only speaking for myself, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Since my late-'50s, early-'60s childhood I've dealt with the Sox being a runner late and a dollar short trying to be a legitimate contender. In the '60s the Sox seemed always to be *thisclose* to catching the Yankees, but couldn't do it. In the '70s the Athletics and the Royals were the gold standard for building winning teams and the Sox were left in the dust. In '83 the Sox ran away with the division by a combination of some career years and a little luck. In 1993 and 2000 they fell flat in the playoffs.

"Flash in the pan" was how the Sox were regarded most of those successful years, with a lot of wilderness-wandering during the years in between. Last year was gratifying on so many levels -- the World Series, of course, but also because of the vindication of Williams' and Guillen's philosophy of smart baseball, which White Sox fans have always appreciated.

I hope the Tigers make it a race (with the White Sox winning, of course :cool: ). It'll be good for Detroit, good for the Sox, and good for baseball in general. The Tigers are playing smart ball right now and that's why they're winning. Real competition makes the Sox a better team, as we saw during Cleveland's surge last year, and baseball is never better than when two good teams are battling for a championship.

Good luck, Tigerclaw. But not too much luck. :tongue:

Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2006, 10:01 AM
P.S. I apologize if my posts on here are annoying. I realize this is a White Sox forum. As a 23 year old who has followed the Tigers since '94, I have never seen the Tigers win more than 79 games and have suffered through many 100 loss seasons including the infamous 119 loss season in '03. In terms of baseball fans from my generation...I consider it harder to be a Tigers fan than a fan of most teams...even the Cubs have had pennant races and playoff teams in the last 12 years. Overall, It's frustrating sometimes to finally see the team play well and compete and be viewed as a fluke or a flash in the pan. I'm sure many fans on here can understand that feeling since many predicted the Sox to fail last year and they never did. I'm sure that gratification of proving everyone wrong was sweet and I hope that my generation of Tigers fans can feel that this year because we really do deserve it.

Tigerclaw,

I'm not a moderator, but as far as I am concerned you are contributing in a positive way to this forum and you are NOT trolling, as some fans of other teams have done in the past. As long as you don't rip on the Sox or us Sox fans, you should be fine here.

I'm sick of Minnesota and Cleveland. A renewed rivalry with Detroit is refreshing. Jim Leyland also is among my favorite non-Sox managers.

All I can say is that I am looking forward to the rest of the season's series between our two teams. May the best team win. I personally would like to see the Tigers finish with the second-best record in the majors, win the AL wild card, and come to U.S. Cellular Field for Game 1 of the ALCS.
:wink:

Chip Z'nuff
05-15-2006, 10:15 AM
I loved the ESPN announcers who called Detroit a team of nobodys last night...

Since when is Pudge Rodriguez, Kenny Rogers, Magglio Ordonez, Omar Infante, Brandon Inge, Carlos Guillen, Jeremy Bonderman, & Dimitri Young a team of nobodys?

If this exact tigers team was wearing yankee stripes they would be gods gift to baseball. I think we all learned a lesson last year about how easy it is to win with a chip on your shoulder.

SoxSpeed22
05-15-2006, 12:00 PM
ESPN also said that Ozzie Guillen and Jim Leyland have similar managerial minds, I think Detroit will be around for much longer than we hoped.