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View Full Version : Bobby Jenks' Delivery Flaw


Hangar18
05-11-2006, 08:42 AM
Jenks again was lit up like a christmas tree last nite. Disgustedly, I got to see the replays of the implosion at home, and I IMMEDIATELY noticed something. Bobby Jenks windup, is taking him to the first-base side of the mound. This is causing his fastball to straighten out ........... and everyone gets a meatball to hit. I hope someone sees this ......................

batmanZoSo
05-11-2006, 09:02 AM
I'm anything but a scout or a pitching coach, but Jenks is far from the model for pitching mechanics. He probably has a different glitch in his delivery every night, and he certainly doesn't come out with the same stuff every night.

stl_sox_fan
05-11-2006, 09:08 AM
There was a common theme on the gamethread that Jenks is just too shaky when he inherits baserunners. Still wondering if the outcome of the 9th would have been different if Cotts stayed or if Jenks had started.

We'll never know.

cbotnyse
05-11-2006, 09:11 AM
someone let Coop know please

Mickster
05-11-2006, 09:16 AM
Email Brooks!!! :redneck

The Immigrant
05-11-2006, 09:16 AM
With runners on, Jenks is afraid to throw his curveball because he's worried it will be a wild pitch. His curveball is most effective when it breaks well in front of the plate, often bouncing in the dirt. With runners on, he's afraid to let it fly and hitters just sit on his fastball. Not surprisingly, he gets lit up. Same thing happened Friday night when he inherited Thornton's walk. I imagine advance scouts are well aware of this - query why Ozzie isn't.

BanditJimmy
05-11-2006, 09:19 AM
Velocity is still a major concern for me.

Jenks at 96-98 is lights out.

92-95 = Billy Koch


And I agree, he absolutely blows when he comes in when runners or on. He should only come in to start an inning. Ozzie dropped the ball last night and should have allowed Cotts to face Salmon. Cotts has the stuff to get any RH hitter out. I don't see the logic of using 3 pitchers to get 3 outs in the ninth inning, especially on a game where you might need your relievers if the game goes 11-12 innings.

Blob
05-11-2006, 09:30 AM
someone let Coop know please

I'm sure he is awaiting his call...........

Chicken Dinner
05-11-2006, 09:46 AM
Velocity is still a major concern for me.

Jenks at 96-98 is lights out.

92-95 = Billy Koch


And I agree, he absolutely blows when he comes in when runners or on. He should only come in to start an inning. Ozzie dropped the ball last night and should have allowed Cotts to face Salmon. Cotts has the stuff to get any RH hitter out. I don't see the logic of using 3 pitchers to get 3 outs in the ninth inning, especially on a game where you might need your relievers if the game goes 11-12 innings.

I haven't seen him throw that fast this year. Has he even hit the 100 mark this year?

Hangar18
05-11-2006, 09:48 AM
With runners on, Jenks is afraid to throw his curveball because he's worried it will be a wild pitch. His curveball is most effective when it breaks well in front of the plate, often bouncing in the dirt. With runners on, he's afraid to let it fly and hitters just sit on his fastball. Not surprisingly, he gets lit up. Same thing happened Friday night when he inherited Thornton's walk. I imagine advance scouts are well aware of this - query why Ozzie isn't.

Well, hes not "veteran" enough that, if he doesnt have his "stuff", he can still LOCATE his pitches. WHen he doesnt locate his fastball and falls behind in the count, he has to come fastball down the middle, and as you all know, you dont get away with that in the AL. Jenks is finding this out.
His curveball wasnt locating either. I would love if Cotts had stayed out there ............... another giveaway game.

However, I see that Jenks isnt standing straight ...........hes falling backward towards 1b on the mound, and its causing his fastball to NOT LOCATE and straighten out. Coop? Brooks?

itsnotrequired
05-11-2006, 09:48 AM
I haven't seen him throw that fast this year. Has he even hit the 100 mark this year?

Jenks has been hitting 96-98 with no problem. Those are the speeds shown on the scoreboard at the park.

cbotnyse
05-11-2006, 09:52 AM
I haven't seen him throw that fast this year. Has he even hit the 100 mark this year?

I could swear Ive seen him hit 100 a few times

HotelWhiteSox
05-11-2006, 09:53 AM
I don't know how the gun at the park can be trusted, but it had 98-101 last Wednesday against the Mariners (yeah, it was probably a little high, but he was effective)

itsnotrequired
05-11-2006, 10:01 AM
I don't know how the gun at the park can be trusted, but it had 98-101 last Wednesday against the Mariners (yeah, it was probably a little high, but he was effective)

I have never seen jenks hit above 98 on the scoreboard at the park. I believe the speeds shown on TV are higher.

BainesHOF
05-11-2006, 10:28 AM
With runners on, Jenks is afraid to throw his curveball because he's worried it will be a wild pitch. His curveball is most effective when it breaks well in front of the plate, often bouncing in the dirt. With runners on, he's afraid to let it fly and hitters just sit on his fastball. Not surprisingly, he gets lit up.

Exactly.

Luke
05-11-2006, 10:42 AM
Last night's outing wasn't very good, but let's keep in mind, he still doesn't have a full year of MLB experience. He's going to have to learn to pitch with runners on, as well as when he doesn't have his best stuff. I'm sure Coop is already working on any flaws in his delivery.

DAllen15
05-11-2006, 11:29 AM
I have never seen jenks hit above 98 on the scoreboard at the park. I believe the speeds shown on TV are higher.

He hit 102mph last year in his debut against KC at home.

itsnotrequired
05-11-2006, 11:31 AM
He hit 102mph last year in his debut against KC at home.

I should have qualified that 98 applies to this year.

Mots09
05-11-2006, 12:49 PM
Hanger it doesn't matter if he is falling off to the first base side as long as his chin is still in line w/ his belly button, and he is still keeping everything else equal and opposite.

If these are AOK then shouldn't have an affect on his pitching.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2006, 12:56 PM
I guess Hangar must be getting tired of his position as 'media advisor' now he wants to be a pitching coach.

:D:

Lip

oeo
05-11-2006, 12:59 PM
With runners on, Jenks is afraid to throw his curveball because he's worried it will be a wild pitch. His curveball is most effective when it breaks well in front of the plate, often bouncing in the dirt. With runners on, he's afraid to let it fly and hitters just sit on his fastball. Not surprisingly, he gets lit up. Same thing happened Friday night when he inherited Thornton's walk. I imagine advance scouts are well aware of this - query why Ozzie isn't.

I'd much rather he take the chance with his curve and maybe throw a wild pitch than serve up that 96MPH meatball.

The Immigrant
05-11-2006, 01:11 PM
I'd much rather he take the chance with his curve and maybe throw a wild pitch than serve up that 96MPH meatball.

Absolutely - when he's throwing that wicked curve he is virtually unhittable. Picture me sitting on the couch yelling "give him the curve, Bobby, the curve...oh, sonofabitch!!!" :angry:

Whoever blamed this on his lack of experience is right on. With time, he'll learn to have confidence in his curve with men on base, and he'll learn that a wild pitch is almost always better than a center-cut, belt-high meatball.

JohnBasedowYoda
05-11-2006, 01:27 PM
92-95 = Billy Koch


I thought Kotch had trouble breaking 90 most of the time, or am I wrong again.....

maurice
05-11-2006, 01:49 PM
It's not unusual for a good closer to tank in a non-save situation, but what are you going to do? Ozzie clearly needed to bring him in, since Cotts was gassed and ineffective after K'ing the only batter he faced on 4 pitches. It's also really important to stop the game and make as many pitching changes as possible, when you're trailing by one run and the forecast calls for heavy rain.
:rolleyes:

WSox8404
05-11-2006, 06:06 PM
I thought Kotch had trouble breaking 90 most of the time, or am I wrong again.....

Is he out of baseball now?

digdagdug23
05-11-2006, 06:11 PM
Picture me sitting on the couch yelling "give him the curve, Bobby, the curve...oh, sonofabitch!!!" :angry:

Get out of my head, daggit!

Bill Naharodny
05-11-2006, 06:30 PM
When he's off, it seems like a chicken-egg thing with Jenks: he has a lower velocity on his fastball and the fastball is lower in the zone. When it's down, it gets hit. When it's up, they can't reach it. (I'm thinking Bagwell here, as an example.)

Thing is, I'm not sure which is causing which: Is the diminished velocity a result of, or the cause of, the fact that it's down in the zone? (Maybe the title of this post should be "Great Philosophical Dilemmas of the Jenks Era")

Also, it seems to me he never has the curve if he doesn't have the fastball. (Thinking Jose Vizcaino in Game Two here, as an example, or Kerry Robinson the other night.)

Bobbo35
05-11-2006, 06:44 PM
There was a common theme on the gamethread that Jenks is just too shaky when he inherits baserunners. Still wondering if the outcome of the 9th would have been different if Cotts stayed or if Jenks had started.

We'll never know.

I wish they would have kept Cotts in, the mood would definately have been different in the dugout.

soxinem1
05-11-2006, 07:47 PM
I think it's time they teach Jenks a straight change. His fear of throwing curves w/runners on will catch up to him soon enough, and it's not like he hasn't been giving up hits, either.

But a straight change would work with his mechanics, he would fool a lot of guys who are beginning to know the deal.

And as far as hitting 98-100? At anytime this year? No way.

1951Campbell
05-11-2006, 09:39 PM
I thought Kotch had trouble breaking 90 most of the time, or am I wrong again.....

Koch? That must be kph then.

KRS1
05-12-2006, 02:17 AM
And as far as hitting 98-100? At anytime this year? No way.

Man, am I glad you cleared that one up for us. Exactly where did you purchase your crystal ball?

Jurr
05-12-2006, 06:26 AM
All of this stuff may be the exact reason that Jenks hadn't gotten out of the minors yet (and, of course, his elbow surgery).

His stuff may be that erratic, and the late season run he had last year may have been, and I hate to say it, a "flash in the pan."

I do believe in Coop, and I think Jenks can get his stuff together, but there's no bigger test on an athlete than a 162 game season. The pressure of the playoffs and World Series is very great, and Jenks was strong in his appearances last year, but time will tell if he actually has enough consistency to be a full time closer.

The question is whether the Sox can afford a run of 5-6 blown saves in a row while Jenks figures it out. This team is strong enough to sustain close losses, but sometimes it really demoralizes a club.

I think Jenks may need to develop one more pitch. A straight fastball is okay if you're coming into the season late and your arm is fresh. If he could develop a good two seamer with some sink to go with that four seamer and the hammer, then he may be able to become dominant. Until he gets another pitch to mess with hitters' timing, he may be prone to struggles.

Brewski
05-12-2006, 10:46 AM
Jenks's fastball is straight as a string. So was Koch's. When he's right, Jenks's is 5-10 MPH faster that Koch's was, but it can still be hit if is down in the zone. We've all seen it happen. Why does one pitcher's fastball have crazy movement and another's none? Maybe a pitching guru among us can explain.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-12-2006, 10:50 AM
The question is whether the Sox can afford a run of 5-6 blown saves in a row while Jenks figures it out. This team is strong enough to sustain close losses, but sometimes it really demoralizes a club.

He hasn't blow five or six saves in a row. In the situation on Wednesday, the Sox already were a run down, so there was no blown save (just an opportunity to keep it close.)

Yes, he has some issues (velocity not quite what it was last year and not enough confidence in his curve and his ERA is high), but he does have 10 saves to rank second in the AL in that category and has only 1 blown save. I don't think we should waive him just yet.

SOXSINCE'70
05-12-2006, 10:54 AM
I guess Hangar must be getting tired of his position as 'media advisor' now he wants to be a pitching coach.

:D:

Lip

Someone should let Don Cooper know he's out of a job.:D: :D:

ewokpelts
05-12-2006, 11:50 AM
Jenks again was lit up like a christmas tree last nite. Disgustedly, I got to see the replays of the implosion at home, and I IMMEDIATELY noticed something. Bobby Jenks windup, is taking him to the first-base side of the mound. This is causing his fastball to straighten out ........... and everyone gets a meatball to hit. I hope someone sees this ......................simple...he's fat and cant seem to get any control when there's runners in scoring position.....

Gene

goldglovesox
05-12-2006, 11:59 AM
Come on dont get down on Bobby yet. As far as him falling off to the side he has always done that. It is not as drastic as you say. If Salmon would have lined out to CF no one would be talking about this. Secondly, he has three pitches. He throws a changeup which Coop has told him to ditch apparently. He was a starter with Anaheim and threw three pitches. But being a closer you only need two. Why would he add a third pitch when he needs to add consistency with his hammer. I also think his fear of throwing a curveball is a little off-base. AJ is the one who puts down the sign. It is AJ's responsibility to keep the ball in front. I highly doubt he doesnt call a curveball b/c he doesnt want to block it and I do not think Bobby is thinking 'well i better not throw a curveball b/c it could wind up at the backstop.' I think we need to let Bobby settle in again and as the weather warms up so will his fastball.

soxinem1
05-12-2006, 12:12 PM
Man, am I glad you cleared that one up for us. Exactly where did you purchase your crystal ball?

I'm not sure what this means, but no one is talking about the future, he presently is not fooling anyone. He's given up a lot of hits this year, and his pitches do not have the 'zip' they had last year.

While he's had a far better Sox career than Koch, he needs to add to his arsenal. Rivera and Pappelbon do not throw as hard as Bobby, but Mariano will throw his cutter at any count, Jenks is too predictable. That's why a nice straight change will help keep the hitters more off balance.

KRS1
05-15-2006, 05:04 PM
I'm not sure what this means, but no one is talking about the future, he presently is not fooling anyone. He's given up a lot of hits this year, and his pitches do not have the 'zip' they had last year.

While he's had a far better Sox career than Koch, he needs to add to his arsenal. Rivera and Pappelbon do not throw as hard as Bobby, but Mariano will throw his cutter at any count, Jenks is too predictable. That's why a nice straight change will help keep the hitters more off balance.

Sorry to bring up an old, or dead thread, but I didnt read his response to me until now so I wanted to clear things up. I was pointing out the fact that you said, and I quote, "And as far as hitting 98-100? At anytime this year? No way." Which not only turned out to be wrong a day after you said it, but was completely baseless, and irrational in the first place. Reports at around this time last year from Bham were of him hitting the mid 90s, and I remember being excited because he was building up his velocity again. Then the guy started hitting triple digits for about a month before we called him up. He obviously had some kinks he had to work out and some tightness he had to break through. I just want to suggest in the future that people dont make such foolish, and little thought out predictions as this one. Who knows maybe in a year from now, he breaks through quicker than this year, maybe it takes him a months time again, but predicting he lost his stuff when he was on the same or better pace than last year(if you bother to look at these things) is just childish.