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skottyj242
05-10-2006, 03:03 PM
Looking on sportsline it says that Charlie Haeger was suspended for the 2003 season. Does anyone know what that is all about?

Chicken Dinner
05-10-2006, 03:05 PM
Drinking Jager. :gulp:

skottyj242
05-10-2006, 03:06 PM
Drinking Jager. :gulp:

Nice.

mantis1212
05-10-2006, 03:06 PM
According to ESPN he just left baseball and played college golf.

drewcifer
05-10-2006, 03:13 PM
Looking on sportsline it says that Charlie Haeger was suspended for the 2003 season. Does anyone know what that is all about?

Linky (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player_career.jsp?player_id=446624&y=2003)

batmanZoSo
05-10-2006, 03:23 PM
Looking on sportsline it says that Charlie Haeger was suspended for the 2003 season. Does anyone know what that is all about?

He spent the year bathing off the southern coast of St. Bart's with spider monkeys, tripping on acid. Changed his whole perspective on ****.

skottyj242
05-10-2006, 03:38 PM
He spent the year bathing off the southern coast of St. Bart's with spider monkeys, tripping on acid. Changed his whole perspective on ****.

I love that movie.

Berkules
05-10-2006, 03:42 PM
He spent the year bathing off the southern coast of St. Bart's with spider monkeys, tripping on acid. Changed his whole perspective on ****.
and then he realized he's never even been to Mt. Vesuvius


Charlie Haeger has sixteen....hundred new messages

spongyfungy
05-10-2006, 09:09 PM
I was watching the game tonight and after Heager gave up the double to Garrett, Hawk and DJ were saying that a pitching coach who has never thrown a knuckleball can only say so much to a knuckleballer.Then they were talking about paying instructors and how they are very few in the league and about a retaininer and blah blah blah.

I heard on Mulligan and Hanley this afternoon talk with Phil Niekro and they asked him if he would help a pitcher like Haeger and Phil said he would do it. Niekro lives in Atlanta and follows the braves according to this article (http://www.al.com/golf/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/sports/11467342586130.xml&coll=2)but I'd love for him to be an instructor in Charlotte. It'd be a short commute by plane and I think the he can really benefit from it.

1951Campbell
05-10-2006, 09:13 PM
That would be awesome.

VivaOzzie
05-10-2006, 09:34 PM
I heard that too. The Sox should definitely be talking to him.

santo=dorf
05-10-2006, 09:45 PM
Wasn't the other knuckler named Charlie helping him out?

A. Cavatica
05-10-2006, 09:46 PM
How old is Phil? I bet he has a few innings left in that arm.

HomeFish
05-10-2006, 10:49 PM
It's my understanding that he has some sort of master-pupil relation with Charlie Hough, like private lessons or something.

LongLiveFisk
05-10-2006, 11:10 PM
Do we have to pay him or is he volunteering? :D:

BeviBall!
05-10-2006, 11:19 PM
It's my understanding that he has some sort of master-pupil relation with Charlie Hough, like private lessons or something.

...searching post for depressing thoughts...

CLEAN!

Lip Man 1
05-10-2006, 11:26 PM
Appreciate Phil's offer but why bother? It's not like this kid is ever going to crack the starting rotation, certainly not after tonight.

He'll be a part of another Williams' deal this off season or next. LOL

Lip

Corlose 15
05-11-2006, 12:05 AM
Appreciate Phil's offer but why bother? It's not like this kid is ever going to crack the starting rotation, certainly not after tonight.

He'll be a part of another Williams' deal this off season or next. LOL

Lip

You're judging this kid's chances after ONE start? Did you say the same thing when McCarthy was getting shelled by the Royals and D-rays last summer? What about when Cotts was shelled in Yankee Stadium?

You bother because it makes the organization stronger. :rolleyes:

ChiSoxRowand
05-11-2006, 01:02 AM
From Rotoworld-



Charlie Haeger (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=4472) - S - White Sox (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.asp?sport=MLB&majteam=CWS)


White Sox optioned Charlie Haeger back to Triple-A Charlotte.
It seems Ozzie Guillen may not have been very impressed with Haeger's performace in his major league debut. The knuckleballer gave up six runs -- five earned -- and walked six in 4 1/3 innings against the Angels. Maybe Haeger will get another chance before the year is out, but Brandon McCarthy is back as the team's sixth starter now. May. 11 - 12:19 am et

It will be interesting to see who they bring up.

BRDSR
05-11-2006, 01:07 AM
Although in the wake of Haeger's less than impressive performance this may seem like good news, it is also a cause for concern. Haeger was the replacement if Jose's injury was short term. If the Sox thought Jose was only going to miss one more start I would think Haeger would be kept on the roster either in the bullpen or for his next start. This would save on the options necessary to bring another pitcher up and then, eventually, demote him again. The fact that BMac has been (most likely) inserted into the rotation may signal that JC's injury is or could be more serious than originally thought.

Here's to seeing Jose take the mound May 20th against the Cubs. :gulp:

ShoelessJoeS
05-11-2006, 01:09 AM
Just heard this while watching SportsNite, sorry Mods if it has already been posted.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2006, 01:09 AM
BRDSR:

Ummm no...Ozzie was quoted directly as saying if Haegar pitched well he'd get the start in Minnesota if he didn't it would be McCarthy. It was in the papers yesterday.

Contreras' situation had nothing to do with it.

Lip

Mr. White Sox
05-11-2006, 01:10 AM
Yeah, I knew this was going to happen once they kept him in for more than three innings. It definitely looked like they were trying to stretch him out, especially when they kept him in for the 9th. I'm all for it.

BRDSR
05-11-2006, 01:15 AM
Lip,

I understand that Haeger's next start was not guaranteed. However, I am surprised to see him demoted so quickly. To me, it would make more sense to install BMac in the rotation and keep Haeger in the 'pen. Leave Haeger up with the club so that Cooper can get a little work in with him and send him back when Jose is ready to come off the DL. As it is we've already used up one option on Haeger and will have to use another on someone else. These types of moves can become a problem eventually. As much as WSI is not a Joe Borchard fan, the Sox backed themselves into a corner by bringing him up and sending him back too many times.

And Ozzie Guillen does not make roster moves. He might offer his professional opinion, but Kenny Williams makes roster moves. I love Ozzie but he has a tendency to run his mouth. I will take this chance to predict that JC will not make a start until mid-June.

oeo
05-11-2006, 01:17 AM
You're judging this kid's chances after ONE start? Did you say the same thing when McCarthy was getting shelled by the Royals and D-rays last summer? What about when Cotts was shelled in Yankee Stadium?

You bother because it makes the organization stronger. :rolleyes:

Honestly, I think the only reason he was brought up was to hopefully set his value high. IF he had a good outing, he would have been great trade bait. :D:

But really, I'm not saying he doesn't have a shot after his outing, but there's no way he makes this rotation any time soon. We've already got 6 guys.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2006, 01:18 AM
Corlose:

Ummm no. Try again.

It's because the Sox have controlling interest in ALL SIX starting pitchers through at least 2007. They can extend that if they wish for a longer period of time if they pick up the deals and re-sign guys.

How long did Glavine, Smoltz and Glavine pitch for the Braves?

My point is that I don't think the Sox are going to break up this staff unless the demands get totally out of reach. Williams isn't stupid.

So if that turns out to be true WHERE'S HE GONNA PLAY?

Hint: It isn't going to be on the South Side.

Lip

HotelWhiteSox
05-11-2006, 01:23 AM
Appreciate Phil's offer but why bother? It's not like this kid is ever going to crack the starting rotation, certainly not after tonight.

He'll be a part of another Williams' deal this off season or next. LOL

Lip

That's another reason I didn't want him to start tonight, sexier trade bait

ShoelessJoeS
05-11-2006, 01:32 AM
The title of this thread reminds me of the trade Contreras for ______ superthreads of last year. Phew.......that's all I can say about that.

KRS1
05-11-2006, 01:48 AM
I know its not official yet, but futuresox has a rumor up saying Tracey is the pitcher we are planning to bring up for our pen, while moving Brandon into the roto.

http://www.futuresox.com/frontpage/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=285

ode to veeck
05-11-2006, 08:50 AM
He spent the year bathing off the southern coast of St. Bart's with spider monkeys, tripping on acid. Changed his whole perspective on ****.

LOL! appropriate mental preparation for a knuckleballer

Chicken Dinner
05-11-2006, 09:37 AM
The box score clearly indicates that this guy isn't ready. Way too many walks. I have a feeling we'll be seeing Nelson soon.

Mullet Master
05-11-2006, 10:04 AM
Holy Crap guys, this kid is like what, 24 or something, and your worried about him trying to crack the rotation. Give the kid a break. Wait 3 years from now, you don't know what the rotation will look like then. Right now the sox starting rotation counts for about $46 Million of their $104 million payroll. Sooner or later that is gonna change.

ondafarm
05-11-2006, 11:00 AM
The only thing that I think has been entirely missed in this thread is the effect on Haeger. Look at all this from his perspective.

He's been throwing the knuckleball for just two years and he makes his major league debut with it. He's been deadly at Charlotte, but that's in the IL. Now that he got spanked by the Angels, he may be just a little more pliable in Hough's hands, maybe he'll listen to Niekro, etc. Although advice from guys like that isn't free, compared to producing another starting pitcher, it's cheap.

Like McCarthy who needed to go back down and work on changing speeds, maybe Haeger needs to work on something. He's got the guys to teach him, now hopefully he can put it together, get the ego downsized a bit and eventually get back to the bigs.

I honestly think the White Sox are already planning who they will trade in order to make room for McCarthy in the rotation (my money is on Garland.) Bringing along your next starting pitcher, and giving him a one game try out when he may not really be ready doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

Haeger wasn't ready. That's all I judge him after one game.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2006, 11:27 AM
The only thing that I think has been entirely missed in this thread is the effect on Haeger. Look at all this from his perspective.

He's been throwing the knuckleball for just two years and he makes his major league debut with it. He's been deadly at Charlotte, but that's in the IL. Now that he got spanked by the Angels, he may be just a little more pliable in Hough's hands, maybe he'll listen to Niekro, etc. Although advice from guys like that isn't free, compared to producing another starting pitcher, it's cheap.

Like McCarthy who needed to go back down and work on changing speeds, maybe Haeger needs to work on something. He's got the guys to teach him, now hopefully he can put it together, get the ego downsized a bit and eventually get back to the bigs.

I honestly think the White Sox are already planning who they will trade in order to make room for McCarthy in the rotation (my money is on Garland.) Bringing along your next starting pitcher, and giving him a one game try out when he may not really be ready doesn't sound like a bad thing to me.

Haeger wasn't ready. That's all I judge him after one game.Meh. It's not like they were slapping him around. He just couldn't throw strikes. Maybe too much adrenaline.

Trading a starter before the end of the season is a problem. IIRC, both Garland and Contreras have no-trade clauses for this year.

Huisj
05-11-2006, 11:46 AM
Meh. It's not like they were slapping him around. He just couldn't throw strikes. Maybe too much adrenaline.



I didn't get to see the game, but from the highlights I saw, the knuckleball was moving ridiculously all over the place. It seemed to move so much that it couldn't find the plate even when it would start out in the middle of the plate. It also looked like he was throwing it harder than you usually see them thrown, so maybe that had something to do with the control issues. But anyway, after seeing how much ridiculous movement he got, I think the kid has some talent and potential sometime down the road.

ondafarm
05-11-2006, 12:00 PM
Meh. It's not like they were slapping him around. He just couldn't throw strikes. Maybe too much adrenaline.

Trading a starter before the end of the season is a problem. IIRC, both Garland and Contreras have no-trade clauses for this year.

Sorry, I gave the wrong impression.

I don't think Garland is going anywhere (apart from a return engagement in the WS) this year.

I just wouldn't be surprised if they traded him over the winter. I'm wondering what the Sox would need most. I think everyone's durability issues will affect who stays and who goes, but my money is on Garland right now. Great potential, but because he's a headcase, probably means less to anybody except the Sox.

Berkules
05-11-2006, 12:25 PM
I was driving home from work for the first 4 walks and only got to hear them on the radio. I was hauling A trying to get home so I could actually SEE him pitch...the knuckler, in terms of what a knuckleball is supposed to do, looked good but we all know he had no control. Personally I don't like KBers and I hold my breath everytime they windup. I would've rather see BM start but oh well.

What I'm impressed with is how the team turned around after the first 4.1 inning massacre. (just go with it...) We scored five runs and BM pitched like a 2 hitter. I agree with what everyone was saying about Jenks coming in with runners, and the ninth was just purely disgusting, but especially with Crede up in the 8th I thought we could win it.

I'm not too worried about a loss like this and, the ninth and Jenks aside, I think we played like champions out there. Oh well...I guess we're only going 152-10 this year...


BA baby!!!!

slobes
05-11-2006, 12:28 PM
and then he realized he's never even been to Mt. Vesuvius


Charlie Haeger has sixteen....hundred new messages

A bit more than average......

FanofBill
05-11-2006, 01:12 PM
Sorry, I gave the wrong impression.

I but my money is on Garland right now. Great potential, but because he's a headcase, probably means less to anybody except the Sox.

Headcase?? When did he become a headcase?
However, as far as starter, I think we might trade Freddy before we trade Garland.
Actually, I hate to see any of our starters go but we have to make room for McCarthy next year so someone have to go.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-11-2006, 01:25 PM
I didn't get to see the game, but from the highlights I saw, the knuckleball was moving ridiculously all over the place. It seemed to move so much that it couldn't find the plate even when it would start out in the middle of the plate. It also looked like he was throwing it harder than you usually see them thrown, so maybe that had something to do with the control issues. But anyway, after seeing how much ridiculous movement he got, I think the kid has some talent and potential sometime down the road.

I agree. Thinking Haeger is not capable of being a big-league pitcher after one start (he only gave up 5 hits) is a rash judgment. Yes, he had control problems, but if he ca solve that and he can be tough. He's only been throwing the knuckler for several years and is very young by knuckballer standards.

What impressed me was he could throw a fastball at 82 mph. Get that knuckler at 68 and dancing and the differential is significant.

palehozenychicty
05-11-2006, 01:37 PM
He spent the year bathing off the southern coast of St. Bart's with spider monkeys, tripping on acid. Changed his whole perspective on ****.

Zoolander was pure genius.

WSox8404
05-11-2006, 02:12 PM
Headcase?? When did he become a headcase?
However, as far as starter, I think we might trade Freddy before we trade Garland.
Actually, I hate to see any of our starters go but we have to make room for McCarthy next year so someone have to go.

He didn't become one. He was always one.

ondafarm
05-11-2006, 03:19 PM
Headcase?? When did he become a headcase?
However, as far as starter, I think we might trade Freddy before we trade Garland.
Actually, I hate to see any of our starters go but we have to make room for McCarthy next year so someone have to go.

By headcase I mean a big-inning vulnerable pitcher.

He'll be cruising along being virtually unhittable and then somebody will boot a ball and a lead-off man will get on. Not supposed to happen, but it does. Instead of, like Buehrle does, recalling the last time the same guy made a great play and saved your bacon, Garland seems to fall to pieces and give up a couple of hits and maybe a few runs.

Garland has better stuff than Buehrle, but Buehrle is a better pitcher. When Garland is on, he's virtually unhittable, but when a break goes against him, he shatters.

I caught guys like this. The only thing I could do was pull a Bull Durham, go out and talk to him about his date or something. I even had a covert signal to summon the pitching coach and a different one for the trainer. I'd get guys so screwed up I'd have to go back out after one pitch to confirm the indicator.

RichFitztightly
05-11-2006, 03:30 PM
Corlose:

Ummm no. Try again.

It's because the Sox have controlling interest in ALL SIX starting pitchers through at least 2007. They can extend that if they wish for a longer period of time if they pick up the deals and re-sign guys.

How long did Glavine, Smoltz and Glavine pitch for the Braves?

My point is that I don't think the Sox are going to break up this staff unless the demands get totally out of reach. Williams isn't stupid.

So if that turns out to be true WHERE'S HE GONNA PLAY?

Hint: It isn't going to be on the South Side.

Lip

He can pitch until he's 50. I'm not sure how long he's allowed to stay in the minors without being moved, but if he's up for it and the Sox pay him a livable wage, why not just hold on to him until he's a viable option? No other pitcher in the organization will have his durability.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2006, 03:41 PM
Sorry, I gave the wrong impression.

I don't think Garland is going anywhere (apart from a return engagement in the WS) this year.

I just wouldn't be surprised if they traded him over the winter. I'm wondering what the Sox would need most. I think everyone's durability issues will affect who stays and who goes, but my money is on Garland right now. Great potential, but because he's a headcase, probably means less to anybody except the Sox.There's still a lot of baseball to be played this season, and May is way too soon to tell how this is going to play out. If Garland settles in and wins 17-18 games, he's going nowhere. OTOH, too many more Judy sightings and he could well be pitching elsewhere next season.

The question of what they need is a good one. It's not as if they have weaknesses to be addressed, but Garland (and maybe a prospect) could bring a superstar caliber player in return, and there's always room for one of those. If Baltimore flops again (and they're well on their way), the Tejada deal could resurface.

TheDarkGundam
05-11-2006, 05:51 PM
http://yosemite-sam.net/Favorites/Hagar-2.jpg