PDA

View Full Version : Can you remember a sox player with as big an offensive turnaround as Crede?


So.ILSoxFan
05-08-2006, 10:56 AM
Yes, I know, there has been much (deserved) Crede love going around on this board lately. If you're sick of it, skip down to the bottom for my actual question.

1. For the past few seasons, "Taking a Crede" could have been synonomous with going to refill the salsa bowl or getting a beer during one of his flyouts/groundouts. Now, "Pulling a Crede" would have to mean ace-ing a final, or for those of us not in high school still, getting that big project in just before the deadline.

2. Even early last season, WSI had a couple threads a day demanding that we somehow get rid of this Crede kid, because he would be our death in the playoffs, or because we didn't like his mullet, or because we didn't count anything he did (yes, you know who I'm talking about). Now, we can't get enough of him, Hawk has a huge man-crush, and his name over the PA at the ballpark gets as much applause as Konerko's.

3. Yesterday, when the Royals walked Paulie to get to Crede, everyone, and I mean everyone in that ballpark not wearing blue, was scratching their heads. A year ago, that move would have been undeniably smart. But now, in Hawk's words, "Don't they know he lives for moments like this?". We expected that hit, we knew it was coming.

Have you old-timers ever seen a sox player who has ever had this big or obvious an offensive turnaround without leaving the organization?

:gulp:

Jurr
05-08-2006, 10:58 AM
Yeah..Paul Konerko in 2003. Went from awesome to the floor back to awesome. Funny how that worked out.

So.ILSoxFan
05-08-2006, 11:05 AM
Yeah..Paul Konerko in 2003. Went from awesome to the floor back to awesome. Funny how that worked out.

True, but I'm wondering about guys who had a horrible season (or more than one) before coming to life at the plate.

:cool:

IlliniSox4Life
05-08-2006, 11:13 AM
Crede has always been clutch (at least for longer than this year and the last half of last year). He just hasn't been as good in the earlier innings. I think he has the most walk off hits in baseball over the last couple of years (the Sox have the most, and almost half of those were Credes).

Jurr
05-08-2006, 11:19 AM
Another recent one was Rowand's year in 2004. Came out of nowhere.

2003 he hit .287 with 6 bombs and 6 doubles in 90 games.
2004 he hit .310 with 24 bombs and 45 doubles in 140 games.

We were all pretty impressed with that turnaround.

So.ILSoxFan
05-08-2006, 11:25 AM
Another recent one was Rowand's year in 2004. Came out of nowhere.

2003 he hit .287 with 6 bombs and 6 doubles in 90 games.
2004 he hit .310 with 24 bombs and 45 doubles in 140 games.

We were all pretty impressed with that turnaround.
That is impressive. I caught him in the phillies game yesterday, he looks as if he is continuing his success. One of his trademark ridiculous catches is on the MLB.com highlight video reel. Good to see.

Randar68
05-08-2006, 11:35 AM
Konerko and Crede have both been very streaky players their entire careers, for the most part....

Konerko is a strealy player but his streaks run for 2-3 months at a time generally. Crede's streakiness was almost on a month-by-month basis... He'd hit .330 one month, and .176 the next...

Not only were his fluxuations frequent, but wildly erratic as well. Most good hitters have "down month" in the mid .200's and their good months in the low to mid .300's...

However, Joe's bad months were generally at or below the Mendoza line. If he turns his poor months into .250 months, he'd be a .300 hitter, and I made this point many times over the past 2 years or so. His funks have just been so pronounced that they have dwarfed the times when he was actually a very good hitter.

amish26
05-08-2006, 11:43 AM
How about Robin Ventura?

1990 - .249 5 HR 54 RBI
1991 - .284 23 HR 100 RBI

itsnotrequired
05-08-2006, 11:44 AM
One of his trademark ridiculous catches is on the MLB.com highlight video reel. Good to see.

I saw that catch. Notice how he froze when the ball left the bat. Cost him a few steps. Classic Rowand...

TheOldRoman
05-08-2006, 11:53 AM
My response to the original post:
Crede doesn't have a mullet. His hair is just long. A mullet requires him to have short hair on the top, and he doesn't.

So.ILSoxFan
05-08-2006, 11:56 AM
My response to the original post:
Crede doesn't have a mullet. His hair is just long. A mullet requires him to have short hair on the top, and he doesn't.

you're right, can we call it euro-hair? (watch a soccer game, you'll see what I mean).

:cool:

batmanZoSo
05-08-2006, 11:56 AM
Crede's always had a flair for the dramatic to some degree. It started late in 2002 when he hit a three run homer to tie it in the 9th and then hit a slam to win it in extra innings. It went something like that, I believe it was against Detroit...

The difference is like Illini said, he's now a productive hitter throughout the whole game. The guy has always had talent, it's not like he's a scrub who came out of nowhere. This is how he was supposed to hit, it just took him long to put it together at the MLB level.

Randar68
05-08-2006, 11:57 AM
I saw that catch. Notice how he froze when the ball left the bat. Cost him a few steps. Classic Rowand...

NAYSAYER! HOW DARE YOU DISS THE "ARow!"

Dan H
05-08-2006, 12:01 PM
I don't know if this is a turnaround or Crede finally developed into the hitter he can be. I remember hating his rusting gate swing. Could it be a hitter has to develop just like a pitcher? That awful swing is gone.

I was at a late season game last year where Crede homered and singled. Fans around me were asking what had gotten into him. With his new swing, Crede now has developed into a clutch hitter. That at bat against KC was a great one.

Randar68
05-08-2006, 12:09 PM
I don't know if this is a turnaround or Crede finally developed into the hitter he can be. I remember hating his rusting gate swing. Could it be a hitter has to develop just like a pitcher? That awful swing is gone.

I was at a late season game last year where Crede homered and singled. Fans around me were asking what had gotten into him. With his new swing, Crede now has developed into a clutch hitter. That at bat against KC was a great one.

:rolleyes: Crede never really "changed" his swing... Approach more than anything, and he's been a very good clutch hitter since he came into the league.

All along it's been his taking his offensive struggles into the field with him and from AB-to-AB that has done him in... his month-long funks of struggling to hit .175 overshadowed the months where he was a VERY good hitter, and if you look back at the splits over his career, it's been almost as consistently erratic as you can imagine...

Cofidence is the biggest change Joe Crede has made and AJ and Rowand are as much to credit for that as anyone. Has NOTHING to do with mechanical changes in Joe's swing for the most part.

Madvora
05-08-2006, 12:10 PM
All proof that "he lives for these moments" was his performance in the 2005 playoffs and during that stretch run. He just exploded.
Now he's just on fire everyday.

Glad to have you Joe!
Good thing we have KW too, because if I was the GM, he would have been gone before 2005 even started.

Bobbo35
05-08-2006, 12:11 PM
Another recent one was Rowand's year in 2004. Came out of nowhere.

2003 he hit .287 with 6 bombs and 6 doubles in 90 games.
2004 he hit .310 with 24 bombs and 45 doubles in 140 games.

We were all pretty impressed with that turnaround.

Ya, I was thinking Rowand as well.

hawkjt
05-08-2006, 01:20 PM
Joe has had 3 straight months- Sept,Oct,April of great plate presence. I love how much of a contact hitter he has become- he fights off tough outside pitches as good as anyone on the team now. Rarely strikes out.

He has become a ''must stop what you are doing and watch '' guy like Thome and Paulie and Jermaine.

Hope this groove stays intact for years to come.

And the glove- it is golden.

Berkules
05-08-2006, 01:26 PM
Personally I don't know if it's mecahnics or not, but I think it's undeniably clear that Joe is mentally on top of his game. I sense more confidence in him at the plate than over the last couple years. I think last year after we came out of our terrible Sept. slump he took momentum into the playoffs and it's carried right over.

This connection may be a little weak but his fielding percentage is on the incline for the fourth year in a row .938 in 2002 then .964, .965, .971 last year (with one game at SS 1.000) and now .976 this year...there's no doubt that the confidence gained there as being a good 'player' tr4anslates into becoming a better 'batter.'

IlliniSox4Life
05-08-2006, 02:08 PM
He's just fun to watch. He carries himself with a swagger that is a lot more defining than in years past. Not only does he hit the big shots, but he knows he is going to hit them before he does. Confidence is a great thing.

DaleJRFan
05-08-2006, 02:47 PM
I saw that catch. Notice how he froze when the ball left the bat. Cost him a few steps. Classic Rowand...

Yea, that catch was ridiculous alright, took two steps back on a soft line drive... BA would have walked into that catch... :rolleyes:

GregoryEtc
05-08-2006, 04:41 PM
I know this doesn't follow the title of the thread, but I've considered what Crede has done so far this year to what Jon Garland did last year. He has finally begun to reach the level of play that the sox brass always knew he was capable of. What he's doing is the epitome of a break-out year.

I think both players are prime examples of how great Kenny Williams and his staff really are. They knew that both guys had potential and had the patience to wait for both of them to develop instead of letting them go somewhere else and become Sox killers.

Tragg
05-08-2006, 04:45 PM
Sure. I'll use the examples I used when defending him against Lowell and Blaylock putative trades or just the general release treatment.

Carl Everett....1997-1998
Phil Nevin....1999-2000
Ken Camminiti....1991-1993 or 4...a slower evolution.

I want Mags back
05-08-2006, 04:59 PM
Yeah..Paul Konerko in 2003. Went from awesome to the floor back to awesome. Funny how that worked out.

wasnt he playing on broken foot?

Corlose 15
05-08-2006, 05:12 PM
Unless I'm wrong, and feel free to correct me, Joe Crede won an AA or AAA MVP didn't he? The talent has always been there and I think that is why a lot of people were upset with him, they honestly thought he could do better. Also, Joe didn't just become a clutch hitter, he's always been one. Remember him basically singlehandedly winning a game against Detroit in '04 to put the Sox in first place for the last time?

Yesterday's crowd was electric during that 8th inning at bat. It was like as soon as KC walked Paulie you knew Crede was going to come through. Everyone was pumped and all stood up right before his single. It was great.


Also, I wonder how much Joe was set back by breaking his leg in the minors. If that affected his confidence in anyway and led to a slow start to his career. It may have had no effect at all but I'd be curious to see what he thought about it.

California Sox
05-08-2006, 05:49 PM
Unless I'm wrong, and feel free to correct me, Joe Crede won an AA or AAA MVP didn't he?

He was a two-time league MVP. 1997 Carolina League and 2000 Southern League.

Ol' No. 2
05-08-2006, 06:00 PM
:rolleyes: Crede never really "changed" his swing... Approach more than anything, and he's been a very good clutch hitter since he came into the league.

All along it's been his taking his offensive struggles into the field with him and from AB-to-AB that has done him in... his month-long funks of struggling to hit .175 overshadowed the months where he was a VERY good hitter, and if you look back at the splits over his career, it's been almost as consistently erratic as you can imagine...

Cofidence is the biggest change Joe Crede has made and AJ and Rowand are as much to credit for that as anyone. Has NOTHING to do with mechanical changes in Joe's swing for the most part.I see a big change in his swing. He used to have this big, looping swing. It's still on the long side, but not as bad, but it's now more level, which makes a huge difference in the time the bat is in the hitting zone. That's not to say improved confidence didn't play a role...but his mechanics have improved as well.