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View Full Version : Ozuna deserves a few starts at short


Lillian
05-08-2006, 07:32 AM
I posted these remarks in another thread, but I thought it might get more discussion as a separate topic:

Ozuna is off to such a great start that he's making it pretty hard not to give him a few more starts. With Uribe struggling so badly, I wouldn't mind Pablo taking Uribe's place for a few games. Short, or second are the positions that he has played the most in the minors, and he seems to be best suited for the middle infield. What do you think? I love Uribe's defense, but he looks pretty awful at the plate right now.
Pablo was a career .300 hitter in the minors, and has looked great during almost all of his limited time with the Sox. Remember he hit over .500 with significant playing time, during 2005 Spring Training. I'd like to see Pablo play, at least until he cools off. One thing you can count on is that the guy will give it everything he has. You have to love his energy.

fquaye149
05-08-2006, 07:37 AM
I posted these remarks in another thread, but I thought it might get more discussion as a separate topic:

Ozuna is off to such a great start that he's making it pretty hard not to give him a few more starts. With Uribe struggling so badly, I wouldn't mind Pablo taking Uribe's place for a few games. Short, or second are the positions that he has played the most in the minors, and he seems to be best suited for the middle infield. What do you think? I love Uribe's defense, but he looks pretty awful at the plate right now.
Pablo was a career .300 hitter in the minors, and has looked great during almost all of his limited time with the Sox. Remember he hit over .500 with significant playing time, during 2005 Spring Training. I'd like to see Pablo play, at least until he cools off. One thing you can count on is that the guy will give it everything he has. You have to love his energy.

IMO the difference between Uribe's defense and Jose Valentin's defense has a lot to do with our pitchers' improvements b/t 2004 and 2005 (don't get mad FWC!) The fact is, like with BA, Uribe plays one of the 3 most important defensive positions in baseball (that is, catcher, ss, cf). I've seen him singlehandedly SAVE a baseball game (with that play where he ran so deep in the hole...etc) and that's just off the top of my head. Pablo's been hitting great, but he's an avg defensive SS at best and the fact is that

a.) Uribe needs AB's to snap out of his shnide

b.) Uribe's defense is integral to this team.

rdwj
05-08-2006, 07:52 AM
I agree with fquaye149. We have plenty of sticks in our batting order. I'd hate to see a BIG defensive plus removed for a better bat.

That being said, Ozuna does deserve some playing time. On days when Gooch or Crede need a break, I have no problem with using Ozuna. As far as SS goes, Cintron should get the starts when Juan needs a rest.

Lillian
05-08-2006, 08:00 AM
I noticed that in 1998 he was rated by "Baseball America", as the Best Defensive shortstop in the Midwest League. Has he regressed to the point of being less than average. I think he has good range, and his arm can't be that bad, or Ozzie would not have let him play at third last year. I never read or hear much about his defensive ability as a shortstop. Do you think perhaps we have a poor impression of his defensive skill, because we always see him playing positions for which he is not suited, like third base and left field? Is he really less than an average major league shortstop? I honestly don't know. What are his weaknesses at short?

Blob
05-08-2006, 08:45 AM
As long as everyone else does what they are supposed to Anderson and Uribe do not have to worry about getting their averages up.

NorthSideSox72
05-08-2006, 10:24 AM
If Ozuna should be playing anywhere, its 3B. He got to be pretty good over there last year, so he should spell Crede when he needs a day off. Ozuna is brutal in the outfield defensively, worse than Gload. And we have Cintron to cover the middle infield.

NonetheLoaiza
05-08-2006, 10:26 AM
If Ozuna should be playing anywhere, its 3B. He got to be pretty good over there last year, so he should spell Crede when he needs a day off. Ozuna is brutal in the outfield defensively, worse than Gload. And we have Cintron to cover the middle infield.

Worse than Gload? I don't know about that. Ross is just lost out there on everything...

NorthSideSox72
05-08-2006, 10:32 AM
Worse than Gload? I don't know about that. Ross is just lost out there on everything...
Yes, worse than Gload. Both are hard to watch, but Gload actually catches the ball. Ozuna threw away a game at KC this year on two routine fly balls. Gload is ugly, but he gets it done more often than not.

Ozuna should be a backup 3B and a pinch hitter/runner, and an EMERGENCY 6th outfielder. Gload isn't much better, and should be the 1B backup, lefty PH, backup DH and 5th OF behind Mack.

rdwj
05-08-2006, 10:45 AM
...Ozuna threw away a game at KC this year on two routine fly balls.

Those two balls were in some ridiculous wind. Thatís HARDLY routine. Iím not saying Ozuna is good in the field, but letís not adjust the facts to fit your argument.

NorthSideSox72
05-08-2006, 10:58 AM
Those two balls were in some ridiculous wind. Thatís HARDLY routine. Iím not saying Ozuna is good in the field, but letís not adjust the facts to fit your argument.
No adjustment was necessary. Regular outfielders wrestle with wind all the time. And the good ones deal with it. Ozuna doesn't. He isn't an outfielder.

skottyj242
05-08-2006, 11:07 AM
Those two balls were in some ridiculous wind. Thatís HARDLY routine. Iím not saying Ozuna is good in the field, but letís not adjust the facts to fit your argument.

I would have to agree with you on this one.

Bobbo35
05-08-2006, 11:14 AM
I would have to say that there is no way that I would take Uribe's glove out of the infield. His bat should eventually come around, but man between him and Crede on the left side it is like the great wall of china.

samram
05-08-2006, 11:31 AM
I think if Pablo got 500 ABs in a season, he would maybe hit around .230- remember that a significant amount of his at-bats come when the matchups are favorable to him and not to Pods or whoever he's replacing that day. If he was a guy who could hit .300 as a full-time player, he would be doing it somewhere- let's not pretend that KW and Oziie don't know what he's capable of and not capable of. That said, he's a very nice guy to have on the bench- he can do several things well, especially offensively.

batmanZoSo
05-08-2006, 11:37 AM
Ozuna's succeeding very much in his current role. Why change that?

Uribe is a defensive wizard and he can hit, we know that. He'll bust out of it in time. He can hit 230 for all I care, gimme the defense. Let the rest of the lineup hit, and they are by the way.

FoulTerritory
05-08-2006, 11:44 AM
Jerry Manuel would start playing Ozuna at shortstop frequently in this situation. He was clueless as to the value of defense.

Ozzie Guillen won't. Because Ozzie realizes that at certain positions on the field, when you've got a gold glove caliber defender, you do not sit him when his bat struggles.

And we all know that Ozzie > Manuel. Keeping Uribe on the field as much as possible is the best decision.

rdwj
05-08-2006, 11:49 AM
...And the good ones deal with it. Ozuna doesn't. He isn't an outfielder.

If you have to be "good" to deal with it, that makes it more than routine. I don't really like seeing Ozuna in the outfield either, but over Gload - ANY day.

batmanZoSo
05-08-2006, 11:57 AM
Jerry Manuel would start playing Ozuna at shortstop frequently in this situation. He was clueless as to the value of defense.

Ozzie Guillen won't. Because Ozzie realizes that at certain positions on the field, when you've got a gold glove caliber defender, you do not sit him when his bat struggles.
.

Exactly. I mean come on, anyone can see we're 22-9, that's the best record in baseball. And our overall hitting shows that we're up there with the best despite two regulars batting below .200. Part of the reason the Sox are 22-9, believe it or not, is because both of those players play their positions spectacularly.

hawkjt
05-08-2006, 12:05 PM
Wow, Manuel gets hammered for a move he ''might '' have made.

Guess that manager of the year trophy has a little tarnish on it.

Berkules
05-08-2006, 12:11 PM
If Ozuna should be playing anywhere, its 3B. He got to be pretty good over there last year, so he should spell Crede when he needs a day off. Ozuna is brutal in the outfield defensively, worse than Gload. And we have Cintron to cover the middle infield.

Crede never needs a day off- Joe's has been drinking from KW's faucet and is quickly becoming a half-mortal...he strives off of fatique and spends his nights chewing on quickly-caught baseballs at Third to extract clutch-inducing power from the oils in the balls.
Ozuna just needs to come in for an at bat or two- I agree there's no reason to change around the defense and Cintron is the number 2 SS

Blob
05-08-2006, 12:13 PM
Ozuna's succeeding very much in his current role. Why change that?

Another good point, dont fix what is not broken!

Steelrod
05-08-2006, 12:16 PM
he 'deserves' to play well when in the game. Team players are only interested in wins, not innings. Ozzie's made great decisions up til now, he will determine who plays based on our having the best chance to win!!!

champagne030
05-08-2006, 12:21 PM
Ozzie's made great decisions up til now, he will determine who plays based on our having the best chance to win!!!

Obviously you mean over the course of a full season and not on a particular day.

JB98
05-08-2006, 12:25 PM
I think if Pablo got 500 ABs in a season, he would maybe hit around .230- remember that a significant amount of his at-bats come when the matchups are favorable to him and not to Pods or whoever he's replacing that day. If he was a guy who could hit .300 as a full-time player, he would be doing it somewhere- let's not pretend that KW and Oziie don't know what he's capable of and not capable of. That said, he's a very nice guy to have on the bench- he can do several things well, especially offensively.

I agree with this. Pablo is not good enough defensively at any one position to play more than a couple of times a week. Ozzie does a good job of spot starting him against pitchers where he has a chance to succeed, and Pablo has been an asset off the bench in the late innings because of his speed. Ozuna has been a good role player for us. I say, keep him in that role.

NorthSideSox72
05-08-2006, 01:01 PM
I don't really like seeing Ozuna in the outfield either, but over Gload - ANY day.
:roflmao:

Uh, no.

maurice
05-08-2006, 01:08 PM
One of the main reasons that the Sox got Cintron is that they don't like Ozuna at SS.

Lillian
05-08-2006, 02:28 PM
Thank you all for your opinions. They were all polite, and cordial. Ladies and Gentlemen all. Very refreshing.
So now I can just sit back with the rest of you, and enjoy Uribe's wizardry at short, and wait for his bat to wake up. And in the meantime, we can all continue to enjoy Pablo's exciting, energetic play whenever he does get into a game.

rdwj
05-08-2006, 02:37 PM
:roflmao:

Uh, no.

Nothing like backing up your argument with ...oh, I don't know - stats or some sort of factually based opinion.

NorthSideSox72
05-08-2006, 04:47 PM
Nothing like backing up your argument with ...oh, I don't know - stats or some sort of factually based opinion.
I tried that, and when I cited the game where Ozuna allowed a few runs to score single-handedly, you told me I was stretching to make my point. What else do you want as proof?

How about some stats:

Ozuna in LF, career (never played RF):
G: 14
ZR: 1.47
RF: .714
A: 0
FPCT: 1.000 (17 TC)

Gload in RF/LF, career:
G: 30/29
ZR: 2.56/1.95
RF: .810/.892
A: 2
FPCT: .961/.971 (51/35 TC)

So, Gload apparently shows better range and better ability to effect plays, possibly a better arm, and has played about 4 times as much OF. Ozuna has a 1.000 FPCT, but has only 17 total chances, and neither of those failed catches in KC show as errors because he didn't touch the ball.

Now, we've covered the example where Ozuna couldn't corral the ball, and the stats. Anything else?

I don't want to see either of them starting out there, but given the choice, Gload seems pretty clearly the better one.

fquaye149
05-08-2006, 04:52 PM
Wow, Manuel gets hammered for a move he ''might '' have made.

Guess that manager of the year trophy has a little tarnish on it.

you better ****ing believe it. it's called 2003. it's called neal cotts in yankee stadium. it's called "that's poor, frank". it's called getting outclassed by sweet lou in the 2000 playoffs.

so yeah, that manager of the year trophy DOES have a little tarnish on it, just like Dick Jauron's 2001 coach of the year trophy has a widdle bit of tarnish on it.

Ol' No. 2
05-08-2006, 04:53 PM
I tried that, and when I cited the game where Ozuna allowed a few runs to score single-handedly, you told me I was stretching to make my point. What else do you want as proof?

How about some stats:

Ozuna in LF, career (never played RF):
G: 14
ZR: 1.47
RF: .714
A: 0
FPCT: 1.000 (17 TC)

Gload in RF/LF, career:
G: 30/29
ZR: 2.56/1.95
RF: .810/.892
A: 2
FPCT: .961/.971 (51/35 TC)

So, Gload apparently shows better range and better ability to effect plays, possibly a better arm, and has played about 4 times as much OF. Ozuna has a 1.000 FPCT, but has only 17 total chances, and neither of those failed catches in KC show as errors because he didn't touch the ball.

Now, we've covered the example where Ozuna couldn't corral the ball, and the stats. Anything else?

I don't want to see either of them starting out there, but given the choice, Gload seems pretty clearly the better one.Do you seriously think Gload would have caught those balls in KC? He struggles with routine fly balls. He'd have probably had them hit him in the back of the head while he was circling.

ondafarm
05-08-2006, 05:22 PM
Ozuna is a valuable sub. And on the days when Uribe gets a break I think Cintron is the better shortstop than Ozuna, but that doesn't mean we just hand the spot to Cintron everytime. I think Gload's been in right to keep him fresh, not because he's way better than Ozuna.

One thing mitigating against Ozuna getting starts is that he is the designated runner and is actually virtually irreplaceable in that role. When you start him, you can't utilize him as a pinch-runner. Occasional starts are one thing, but I don't expect to see him used frequently in replacement starts.

NorthSideSox72
05-09-2006, 08:41 AM
Ozuna is a valuable sub. And on the days when Uribe gets a break I think Cintron is the better shortstop than Ozuna, but that doesn't mean we just hand the spot to Cintron everytime. I think Gload's been in right to keep him fresh, not because he's way better than Ozuna.

One thing mitigating against Ozuna getting starts is that he is the designated runner and is actually virtually irreplaceable in that role. When you start him, you can't utilize him as a pinch-runner. Occasional starts are one thing, but I don't expect to see him used frequently in replacement starts.
I completely agree with the second paragraph. Ozuna is great as a pinch runner, and also punch hitter. Plus he plays a decent 3B, and can rest Crede from there.