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beausox
01-29-2002, 06:10 PM
I haven't been around for awhile, but a some of you may remember there were three players I said needed to be traded for us to win in 2002.

1.Chris Singleton (to let Rowand play)

2.Herbert Perry (to let Crede play)

3.Royce Clayton (to let Valentin play SS)

Ken Williams has done two out of three. Corey Lee and Willie Harris has some marginial value, but at least we have gotten rid of some position jams.

We still need to trade Royce Clayton. This club cannot win with two SS. Royce is not a bad SS, but the little advantage in defense he holds over Jose(I say little because although Royce has better hands, Jose covers more ground and has a better, though more erratic arm), does not make up for Jose's huge advantage in the offensive portion of the game.

I'm not asking Ken Williams to get value for Royce, its simple addition by subtraction. Crede gets to play and we only have one SS. The trading season will be slow until spring training and I know there won't be many takers for Royce. Ken needs to admit he made a mistake in acquiring Royce, and execute a salary dump. Royce is a quality baseball player with very good skills, and it is inevitable that someone will get hurt somewhere in spring training and thus creating a need for Royce.

ScottyTheSoxFan
01-29-2002, 07:25 PM
I have a feeling they are waiting until into Spring Training to see if a teams shortstop goes down for a while like Nomar last year.

:hitless

If nothin happens, well this is where that KW factor comes in, which means he probaly stays.

RichH55
01-29-2002, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by beausox
I haven't been around for awhile, but a some of you may remember there were three players I said needed to be traded for us to win in 2002.

1.Chris Singleton (to let Rowand play)

2.Herbert Perry (to let Crede play)

3.Royce Clayton (to let Valentin play SS)

Ken Williams has done two out of three. Corey Lee and Willie Harris has some marginial value, but at least we have gotten rid of some position jams.

We still need to trade Royce Clayton. This club cannot win with two SS. Royce is not a bad SS, but the little advantage in defense he holds over Jose(I say little because although Royce has better hands, Jose covers more ground and has a better, though more erratic arm), does not make up for Jose's huge advantage in the offensive portion of the game.

I'm not asking Ken Williams to get value for Royce, its simple addition by subtraction. Crede gets to play and we only have one SS. The trading season will be slow until spring training and I know there won't be many takers for Royce. Ken needs to admit he made a mistake in acquiring Royce, and execute a salary dump. Royce is a quality baseball player with very good skills, and it is inevitable that someone will get hurt somewhere in spring training and thus creating a need for Royce.

Corey Lee has next to no value, but Willie Harris is intriguing.....I still think Royce will be a Dodger

kermittheefrog
01-29-2002, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by RichH55


Corey Lee has next to no value, but Willie Harris is intriguing.....I still think Royce will be a Dodger

Is Dan Evans really that stupid *reminds himself of Sheffield trade* okay you're right, he is.

RichH55
01-29-2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Is Dan Evans really that stupid *reminds himself of Sheffield trade* okay you're right, he is.
Well I think Howry goes in the same deal...and I think Howry will be a good reliever for this upcoming season....but yes Evans is not Billy Beane incarnate

kermittheefrog
01-29-2002, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by RichH55

Well I think Howry goes in the same deal...and I think Howry will be a good reliever for this upcoming season....but yes Evans is not Billy Beane incarnate

It'd be really nice to nab Gagne for those two but can Kenny pull that off? Or maybe since he wants a starting outfielder he can steal Green? Lee, Howry and Clayton? LoL now I am really being foolish.

RichH55
01-29-2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


It'd be really nice to nab Gagne for those two but can Kenny pull that off? Or maybe since he wants a starting outfielder he can steal Green? Lee, Howry and Clayton? LoL now I am really being foolish.
I think Green is asking too much, but Gagne should definately be in the picture

czalgosz
01-29-2002, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


It'd be really nice to nab Gagne for those two but can Kenny pull that off? Or maybe since he wants a starting outfielder he can steal Green? Lee, Howry and Clayton? LoL now I am really being foolish.

Not only that, but there's no way the Chairman would authorize that trade.

:reinsy

He makes HOW MUCH?!?!?!?

As much as I've supported Clayton on this board, or praised him with faint damnation, Clayton and Howry for Gagne would be a great trade.

kermittheefrog
01-29-2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Not only that, but there's no way the Chairman would authorize that trade.

:reinsy

He makes HOW MUCH?!?!?!?

As much as I've supported Clayton on this board, or praised him with faint damnation, Clayton and Howry for Gagne would be a great trade.

Oh yeah I forgot how much green Green makes. He really isn't worth it at that pricetag. The Dodgers were nuts to give him that kind of cash.

RichH55
01-29-2002, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Oh yeah I forgot how much green Green makes. He really isn't worth it at that pricetag. The Dodgers were nuts to give him that kind of cash.
With out Chris and Ray for next year....Green's salary gets alot closer....though he is still overpaid

bc2k
01-30-2002, 02:07 AM
i agree beausox. Trading clayton is addition by subtraction. I don't care if we get gagne or a bag of pennies. The clayton cancer needs to be removed, and the fact that 4.5 million would be lifted off the sox payroll is another good reason to boot clayton out of town. I agree with the first three points, but add bob howry as number 4. This guy just sucks. Whether he was hurt last year or not, he desperately needs a breaking ball.

cornball
01-30-2002, 10:16 AM
A plan? The man with a plan? I dont think so...usually a plan is to reach a goal......in baseball it is to be a World Champ....if you think this is a plan to reach this goal, then we disagree.

When i read in the paper this morning they are doing this deal for a prospect and to trim a 1.4 million dollar salary....i am truly convinced JR does not want to be a champion. We are at the point were we need contributors to the major league team not prospects...and if we are concerned with someone making 1.4 million (which is far below the average salary} then we are not serious about winning.

Randar68
01-30-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by RichH55

I think Green is asking too much, but Gagne should definately be in the picture

Remind me again why we would be looking at Gagne? The Dodgers have several good middle infield prospects...ahem, where are we weak again????

Kilroy
01-30-2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by cornball
...When i read in the paper this morning they are doing this deal for a prospect and to trim a 1.4 million dollar salary....i am truly convinced JR does not want to be a champion...

Slow down. We're not talking about trading a Jose Valentin or a Keith Foulke to trim his salary. This is Chris Singleton. This says nothing about the organization's desire to win at all. Singleton was a marginal player at best. Simmons is at least as good as Singleton in the field, but the times I've seen him play, he's looked better than Chris by far. And Rowand is gonna be as good as Singleton in the field as well, but he brings more in the batter's box. Why pay Singleton 1.4 mil when you have 2 other players making far less that are at least as good as he is?

Procol Harum
01-30-2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by beausox
I haven't been around for awhile, but a some of you may remember there were three players I said needed to be traded for us to win in 2002.
1.Chris Singleton (to let Rowand play)
2.Herbert Perry (to let Crede play)
3.Royce Clayton (to let Valentin play SS)...

We still need to trade Royce Clayton. Crede gets to play and we only have one SS...

In the universe which most sentient beings occupy, this outlook makes sense. Unfortunately, KW seems to live in another place from you and me and most Sox fans. From listening to him on the Score yesterday, he has Valentin written in as the regular 3B and the Choice-who's now, apparently "done a lot of growing up" after the shock of last April and May--as the guy at SS. Crede, meanwhile, KW seemed to think that some more time in the Minors might not be a bad thing. Hope Crede likes the sunny South...

longshot7
01-30-2002, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by RichH55

Well I think Howry goes in the same deal...and I think Howry will be a good reliever for this upcoming season....but yes Evans is not Billy Beane incarnate

Howry and Clayton for who? Don't count on getting Gagne - he's their best pitching prospect, but he's very similar to Kip Wells - all potential, nothing to show for it as yet. and they're trying to get takers for Omar Daal.

And if we're dumping Clayton, they're gonna try and dump either Marquis Grissom or Tom Goodwin. I wouldn't want either in my outfield, especially for what they make.

Clayton/Howry for Grissom/Odalis Perez/Angel Pena

That's the best I can do - and I don't think it's worth it.

ps - they're thinking about moving Brian Jordan to center and picking up a new left fielder. Carlos Lee anyone?

RichH55
01-31-2002, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by longshot7


Howry and Clayton for who? Don't count on getting Gagne - he's their best pitching prospect, but he's very similar to Kip Wells - all potential, nothing to show for it as yet. and they're trying to get takers for Omar Daal.

And if we're dumping Clayton, they're gonna try and dump either Marquis Grissom or Tom Goodwin. I wouldn't want either in my outfield, especially for what they make.

Clayton/Howry for Grissom/Odalis Perez/Angel Pena

That's the best I can do - and I don't think it's worth it.

ps - they're thinking about moving Brian Jordan to center and picking up a new left fielder. Carlos Lee anyone?


Evans has shown no urges against dealing some pretty good pitchers, more proven than Gagne....and dealing Howry isnt a give away deal as Evans needs a reliever and is said to like Howry.....Royce is simple a one year guy, he makes 4.5, but the Dodgers need a SS til their kid is read......I can see Howry/Clayton for Gagne/Kreuter happening...but unless KW sees dealing Royce as addition by subtraction(I do), and even then, taking on more money for an equally worthless player(whom Im not even sure is in the last year of a deal) is foolish. Evans is not god's gift to trading so lets go assuming we can't get anything for a viable reliever(who the GM has an intimate knowledge of) and a guy who much-maligned can fit into the right situation(read: anywhere but on the White Sox)

czalgosz
01-31-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by longshot7


Howry and Clayton for who? Don't count on getting Gagne - he's their best pitching prospect, but he's very similar to Kip Wells - all potential, nothing to show for it as yet. and they're trying to get takers for Omar Daal.

And if we're dumping Clayton, they're gonna try and dump either Marquis Grissom or Tom Goodwin. I wouldn't want either in my outfield, especially for what they make.

Clayton/Howry for Grissom/Odalis Perez/Angel Pena

That's the best I can do - and I don't think it's worth it.

ps - they're thinking about moving Brian Jordan to center and picking up a new left fielder. Carlos Lee anyone?

The Dodgers have talked about trading Gagne - this isn't something we made up on this board.

Omar Daal sucks. There's a reason they can't find takers for him.

cornball
01-31-2002, 10:18 AM
I think KW will make a few more minor deals before camp and one may involve Howry. But i think he is going to start the season with Clayton at SS, Valentin at 3B.

If the Sox get out to a halfway decent start in June I believe he may add people to be a contender......and if we dont it will be a fire sale with Ray, Lee and others gone.

bjmarte
01-31-2002, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by cornball
I think KW will make a few more minor deals before camp and one may involve Howry. But i think he is going to start the season with Clayton at SS, Valentin at 3B.

If the Sox get out to a halfway decent start in June I believe he may add people to be a contender......and if we dont it will be a fire sale with Ray, Lee and others gone.

I agree with you again cornball. I don't think there is any way Clayton is going anywhere before the middle of the season. I do think that Kenny will make moves to try to improve the team if they pull it together this year and I would be dissapointed if he didn't do some house cleaning if they don't pull it together.