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Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 12:03 PM
Ok, I'm listening to the game and I was reminded again of an enduring puzzlement--Paulie Konerko's ethnicity. I've searched for old threads on this and came up with one but with no resolution thereto.

I'm assuming his forbears originate from some point in Eastern Europe, perhaps the Ukraine, but......anybody know?

As I began to think about this, I began to realize that pinning down the ethnicity (and here we're talking the ethnicity of the surname) for other of the Sox' honky players was no sure bet:

-Anderson: usually Scandihoovian, but can be English or Scottish
-Buerhle: German
-Cotts: English? German?
-Crede: English (Cornish, perhaps?), longer shot--Irish?
-Garland: toughie....English? Scottish? Irish? French?
-Gload: ?
-Hermanson: German? Scandinavian?
-Jenks: Welsh
-Logan: Scottish or Irish?
-Mackowiak: Polish
-McCarthy: Irish
-Pierzynski: Polish
-Podsednik: Czech
-Politte: French
-Thome: ?
-Thornton: English or Scottish
-Widger: English?

And of course, there's the Italian kid, Iguchi....
:bandance:

FedEx227
05-02-2006, 12:08 PM
I've heard Polish, but don't quote me.

Uncle_Patrick
05-02-2006, 12:11 PM
I've heard that Konerko was Polish, too.

Couldn't McCarthy be Scottish? Isn't the Mc prefix often Scottish?

Baby Fisk
05-02-2006, 12:13 PM
PH13 did some research last year and came up with Konerko as a Russian name. He did name his kid Nicholas...

:walnuts
"I'm the team czar, baby!"

jamesto
05-02-2006, 12:17 PM
A google cached article from the Sun Times says:

"Ethnicity: One-half Polish (''All Konerko,'' father Hank says); one-half Italian (DiPiro)."

SOXintheBURGH
05-02-2006, 12:23 PM
Hermanson is most likely German.

I think Iguchi might be Lithuanian, actually.

Baby Fisk
05-02-2006, 12:27 PM
A google cached article from the Sun Times says:

"Ethnicity: One-half Polish (''All Konerko,'' father Hank says); one-half Italian (DiPiro)."
That settles that. :nod:

itsnotrequired
05-02-2006, 12:29 PM
I think Iguchi might be Lithuanian, actually.

I thought Iguchi was some type of outer space potato monster.

Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 12:41 PM
I've heard that Konerko was Polish, too. Couldn't McCarthy be Scottish? Isn't the Mc prefix often Scottish?

Looks like we'll go with the newspaper version--Polish.

Yep, "Mc" and "Mac" is also Scottish (MacDonald, MacKenzie, etc) and there are Mac clan names that occur in both Scotland and Ireland (MacNeill comes to mind--also confused by Scotch-Irish emigration to Northern Ireland in the 16th and 17th century as well as Irish emigration to the Glasgow region of Scotland in the 19th century) but "Mac/McCarthy" is an Irish name.

CHI_SOX_4_LIFE
05-02-2006, 12:45 PM
I thought Iguchi was some type of outer space potato monster.

:D:

SOXintheBURGH
05-02-2006, 12:46 PM
Looks like we'll go with the newspaper version--Polish.

Yep, "Mc" and "Mac" is also Scottish (MacDonald, MacKenzie, etc) and there are Mac clan names that occur in both Scotland and Ireland (MacNeill comes to mind--also confused by Scotch-Irish emigration to Northern Ireland in the 16th and 17th century as well as Irish emigration to the Glasgow region of Scotland in the 19th century) but "Mac/McCarthy" is an Irish name.

"Fingernails on a blackboard" sounds like lowland Scot to me. :D:

miker
05-02-2006, 12:51 PM
American? Or is that politically incorrect? :?:

ondafarm
05-02-2006, 12:55 PM
Mc tends to be Irish, Mac tends to be Scottish. The Gaelic A vs Gaelic B boundary determined that extra vowels were added in Scotland to the same root words.

Frank the Tank
05-02-2006, 01:00 PM
Podsednik is Polish.

He is going to be one of the players honored May 24th at the cell during Polish Night.

White Sox Randy
05-02-2006, 01:01 PM
Often times you can't tell anything by last names anymore. After so many generations in this country and so many "mixed" marriages, people's heritages are often not what they appear to be.

Even Robert Deniro is 3/4 Irish.

Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 01:27 PM
Podsednik is Polish.

He is going to be one of the players honored May 24th at the cell during Polish Night.

He's from the town of West, Texas between Dallas and Waco which is an old, old Czech settlement--I'd assumed therefore...I just knew he wasn't Icelandic....

The Immigrant
05-02-2006, 01:37 PM
There's some confusion over whether descendants of immigrants from regions that eventually became Czechoslovakia, or the Czech Republic, are Czechs, Poles, Bohemians, or something else altogether. Keep in mind that Czechoslovakia wasn't even formed until 1918, and I assume Podsednik's ancestors were long gone by that point. If you look at the current map it may be that they came from what today is the Czech Republic, but at the time was the Austrian empire or Prussia. His name does sound more Czech (or Slovak) than Polish, but who knows. He's an American without hyphen.

Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 01:49 PM
Mc tends to be Irish, Mac tends to be Scottish. The Gaelic A vs Gaelic B boundary determined that extra vowels were added in Scotland to the same root words.

On the national tendency of "Mc" vs. "Mac" as it is today I'd say you're definitely right. But, in the 17th and 18th centuries--especially in the American colonies--those distinctions weren't being observed so a lot of Scottish folk spelt their surnames (or had various record-keepers start spelling for them) with the "Mc" and their descendants maintained that spelling.

Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 01:52 PM
There's some confusion over whether descendants of immigrants from regions that eventually became Czechoslovakia, or the Czech Republic, are Czechs, Poles, Bohemians, or something else altogether. Keep in mind that Czechoslovakia wasn't even formed until 1918, and I assume Podsednik's ancestors were long gone by that point. If you look at the current map it may be that they came from what today is the Czech Republic, but at the time was the Austrian empire or Prussia. His name does sound more Czech (or Slovak) than Polish, but who knows. He's an American without hyphen.

Good points--his ancestors may have originated from what was technically considered "Poland" at the time they emigrated. I had the impression that his family is long-time in that area of Texas hence the Czech/Bohemian origin is likely. Still, Polish, Slovak, or Czech--they all love meat wrapped in cabbage!!

mrs. hendu
05-02-2006, 02:04 PM
Good points--his ancestors may have originated from what was technically considered "Poland" at the time they emigrated. I had the impression that his family is long-time in that area of Texas hence the Czech/Bohemian origin is likely. Still, Polish, Slovak, or Czech--they all love meat wrapped in cabbage!!
Hey, I'm Polish and I don't eat meat. :tongue: :D: It's like saying USA and Canada are the same. :cool:

Neither Podsednik nor Konerko sound too much like Polish names to me. I've read that the name Podsednik has Bohemian origins and Konerko is most commonly described as a Polish name (well, then I guess it must be).

One more thing - Pierzyński's daughter (that's how it's properly spelled in Polish), if she lived in Poland, would be Pierzyńska (feminine noun). :smile: "Pierzyna" by the way means a feather blanket :D: , and the name is an adjective derived from that. Maćkowiak comes from Maciej or Maciek, a popular first name for a male.

Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 02:11 PM
Hey, I'm Polish and I don't eat meat. :tongue: :D:

Say, then you need to hear the Veggie Tales do their "Eight Days of Polish Christmas" from their "A Veggie Tales Christmas" cd from a few years back....pierogies, kielbasa, glumkes (sp???), etc., etc :D:

mrs. hendu
05-02-2006, 02:14 PM
Say, then you need to hear the Veggie Tales do their "Eight Days of Polish Christmas" from their "A Veggie Tales Christmas" cd from a few years back....pierogies, kielbasa, glumkes (sp???), etc., etc :D:
Oh jeez, I bet it's pretty funny.
Glumkes I guess are "goląbki", "little pigeons" that is. :D:

Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 02:20 PM
Oh jeez, I bet it's pretty funny.
Glumkes I guess are "goląbki", "little pigeons" that is. :D:
Yep, it's a hoot--very popular on Wheaton College's radio station during its all-Christmas music format in December.

By the by, Polish is--much like Gaelic--one of those languages whose spellings and pronunications are just utterly incompatible with English letters and their pronunciations--ya don't stand a chance: "That's the word pronounced "tee"--spelled "xfrywdrm.":?:

mrs. hendu
05-02-2006, 02:22 PM
By the by, Polish is--much like Gaelic--one of those languages whose spellings and pronunications are just utterly incompatible with English letters and their pronunciations--
Yeah, Polish is pretty hard. Polish and English vowels seem similar, but there are differences in pronunciation, and not to mention endings... They can be a bitch to any foreigner. But then again, English spelling may be a challenge to any Polish speaker (it's one of those languages where you read every letter, kind of like German, whereas English is so different in this respect).

soxinem1
05-02-2006, 02:50 PM
I thought I read somewhere that Konerko's dad said Paulie is Polish on his side and Italian on his Mom's.

Garland, by the way, is a common Jewish name, especially from European immigrants post WWII with Polish/German roots possible.

Hermanson can be a derived name from German, Dutch, or any eastern European background.

Podsednik is very likely of Polish backing.

Iguchi is without doubt Italian!!

Maybe someone should ask these guys and settle the question.

HomeFish
05-02-2006, 02:51 PM
Yeah, Polish is pretty hard. Polish and English vowels seem similar, but there are differences in pronunciation, and not to mention endings... They can be a bitch to any foreigner. But then again, English spelling may be a challenge to any Polish speaker (it's one of those languages where you read every letter, kind of like German, whereas English is so different in this respect).


I'm a native speaker of Polish, having picked it up from my parents. I was never sent to Polish school or anything, though, so I don't know the language's formal grammar. I just think and words come out.

If I want a headache, what I do is I sit down and try to break down Polish grammar and see if I can understand or describe it. I've never succeeded at that. The fact that verbs can be conjugated for gender is just evil.

MeteorsSox4367
05-02-2006, 02:52 PM
Mom and Busia (Grandma) taught me some Polish, so I can speak it a little, but mostly I just know numbers, food, prayers and a few obscenities.

Don't forget Polish Constitution Day this weekend. Plenty of good seats still available.

mrs. hendu
05-02-2006, 03:05 PM
Mom and Busia (Grandma) taught me some Polish, so I can speak it a little, but mostly I just know numbers, food, prayers and a few obscenities.

Don't forget Polish Constitution Day this weekend. Plenty of good seats still available.

Obscenities - oh yeah, that's the first thing people learn in any language. :wink:

Polish Constitution was 1st in Europe and 2nd in the world, after the US constitution (US 1787, PL 1791).

Procol Harum
05-02-2006, 03:29 PM
Maybe someone should ask these guys and settle the question.

Back in the day (the 60s) the old White Sox yearbooks as part of its thumbnail factoids on the players used to list the players' nationalities. Then we could learn how that wild Welshman Tommy John had a cousin named John John. :smile:

MisterB
05-02-2006, 03:33 PM
If Konerko is polish, it's either:
1) related to konar, meaning tree branches or an archaic term for an animal herder; or
2) a transliteration of another polish surname.

The Social Security Death Index only lists 4 Konerkos which appear to be from Paul's immediate family (all are from Providence, RI). It could be that only those who settled in Rhode Island had that particular transliteration.

Thome is likely German.

Podsednik is definitely Czech (Moravian, actually), used to describe a type of tenant farmer.

One thing that complicates matters is that Poland has changed borders radically over the centuries, and a large part of eastern Europe was Poland at one point or another.

lumpyspun
05-02-2006, 05:18 PM
Ok, I did some ellis island research and found the following:

There was a Felix Konerko that arrived to Ellis Island in 1904 on the ship "Breslau" sailing from Bremen, Germany. His nationality is listed as Russian/Polish and his last place of residency was Karwowa (which I believe is in Poland). His final destination in the US was to Providence, RI. Not saying this is his grandfather (although it could be), but it pretty much shows that the name definitely has Russian roots, but the ancestors could be Polish.

I will also say that I have too much free time and that I am fascinated by Ellis Island history.

CHEESESOXER
05-02-2006, 05:25 PM
I thought Iguchi was some type of outer space potato monster.

That was Carl Everett

JohnBasedowYoda
05-02-2006, 05:40 PM
Even Robert Deniro is 3/4 Irish.

3/4 irish and all typecast!

rookie
05-02-2006, 07:29 PM
-Anderson: usually Scandihoovian, but can be English or Scottish
-Buerhle: German
-Cotts: English? German?
-Crede: English (Cornish, perhaps?), longer shot--Irish?
-Garland: toughie....English? Scottish? Irish? French?
-Gload: ?
-Hermanson: German? Scandinavian?
-Jenks: Welsh
-Logan: Scottish or Irish?
-Mackowiak: Polish
-McCarthy: Irish
-Pierzynski: Polish
-Podsednik: Czech
-Politte: French
-Thome: ?
-Thornton: English or Scottish
-Widger: English?

And of course, there's the Italian kid, Iguchi....
:bandance:

Just curious, any reason why Dye isn't on your list? I'm sure he has an ethnic hertiage as well.

bobwsx
05-02-2006, 09:16 PM
Just curious, any reason why Dye isn't on your list? I'm sure he has an ethnic hertiage as well.I think he's Irish.

BoKnowsBest
05-02-2006, 10:06 PM
One thing that complicates matters is that Poland has changed borders radically over the centuries, and a large part of eastern Europe was Poland at one point or another.

Actually if you wanna get technical it was actually a union between Poland and Lithuania that was the country that was a large part of europe. At one point the empire was from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea. Just a little bit of Lithuanian history for you.

Frank the Tank
05-02-2006, 10:10 PM
Seems like there are a lot of Polish baseball players. I wonder why there was no Team Poland in the WBC. They would've had to been more respectable than Teams Netherlands, South Africa or Australia.

MySoxAreClean
05-02-2006, 11:00 PM
Ok, I'm listening to the game and I was reminded again of an enduring puzzlement--Paulie Konerko's ethnicity. I've searched for old threads on this and came up with one but with no resolution thereto.

I'm assuming his forbears originate from some point in Eastern Europe, perhaps the Ukraine, but......anybody know?

As I began to think about this, I began to realize that pinning down the ethnicity (and here we're talking the ethnicity of the surname) for other of the Sox' honky players was no sure bet:

-Anderson: usually Scandihoovian, but can be English or Scottish
-Buerhle: German
-Cotts: English? German?
-Crede: English (Cornish, perhaps?), longer shot--Irish?
-Garland: toughie....English? Scottish? Irish? French?
-Gload: ?
-Hermanson: German? Scandinavian?
-Jenks: Welsh
-Logan: Scottish or Irish?
-Mackowiak: Polish
-McCarthy: Irish
-Pierzynski: Polish
-Podsednik: Czech
-Politte: French
-Thome: ?
-Thornton: English or Scottish
-Widger: English?

And of course, there's the Italian kid, Iguchi....
:bandance:
I did not see them at the Big Imigrant march, And I thought I had a swim.

Lip Man 1
05-02-2006, 11:13 PM
Back in the day when you'd buy a White Sox yearbook they'd actually list the ethnic background of each player.

I'm assuming they stopped doing it since the 70's because they were concerned about offending someone.

Lip

JorgeFabregas
05-02-2006, 11:16 PM
Often times you can't tell anything by last names anymore. After so many generations in this country and so many "mixed" marriages, people's heritages are often not what they appear to be.

Even Robert Deniro is 3/4 Irish.
I'm surprised it took someone so long to post this out. I guess it makes ethnicity easier to think about. FWIW, my last name is Scottish--which is a minor part of my background.

SouthSidePride11
05-03-2006, 12:14 AM
I think he's Irish.

Dye could be Irish you never know. I'm black and Irish, my grandfather was Irish and he married my grandmother who was black. Stranger things have happend

Baby Fisk
05-03-2006, 08:52 AM
Ok, I did some ellis island research and found the following:

There was a Felix Konerko that arrived to Ellis Island in 1904 on the ship "Breslau" sailing from Bremen, Germany. His nationality is listed as Russian/Polish and his last place of residency was Karwowa (which I believe is in Poland). His final destination in the US was to Providence, RI. Not saying this is his grandfather (although it could be), but it pretty much shows that the name definitely has Russian roots, but the ancestors could be Polish.

I will also say that I have too much free time and that I am fascinated by Ellis Island history.
Nice research!

batmanZoSo
05-03-2006, 09:21 AM
I'm surprised it took someone so long to post this out. I guess it makes ethnicity easier to think about. FWIW, my last name is Scottish--which is a minor part of my background.

But it is part of your background isn't it? The point is generally if you find out the origin of the name, you find out a part of the person's ethnicity.

Procol Harum
05-03-2006, 09:29 AM
Just curious, any reason why Dye isn't on your list? I'm sure he has an ethnic hertiage as well.

As I said in the original thread-starter--I was inquiring about [quote]--"honky"--[unquote] members of the White Sox baseball club. Not African-American, not Hispanic players. I'm pretty sure Jermaine Dye has primarily African heritage--what do you think--pretty safe to say?

Procol Harum
05-03-2006, 09:35 AM
Dye could be Irish you never know. I'm black and Irish, my grandfather was Irish and he married my grandmother who was black. Stranger things have happend

A large percentage of the African-American population has an admixture of European and/or Native American "blood." Unfortunately, the circumstances by which this came about were not always as natural or as happy as in your grandparents' case (read "rape").

batmanZoSo
05-03-2006, 09:52 AM
A large percentage of the African-American population has an admixture of European and/or Native American "blood." Unfortunately, the circumstances by which this came about were not always as natural or as happy as in your grandparents' case (read "rape").

And the rest of us white/Euro heritage folks have a proud history of incest. :thumbsup:

Procol Harum
05-03-2006, 10:08 AM
And the rest of us white/Euro heritage folks have a proud history of incest. :thumbsup:

Should that be in teal I hope [shudder]??

And I don't wanna hear any redneck or hillbilly jokes from people whose families originated in backwater villages and the countryside of varying points in northern, central, eastern and southern Europe--can't tell me the gene pool wasn't a little crowded in those parts....
:wink:

rookie
05-03-2006, 07:11 PM
As I said in the original thread-starter--I was inquiring about [quote]--"honky"--[unquote] members of the White Sox baseball club. Not African-American, not Hispanic players. I'm pretty sure Jermaine Dye has primarily African heritage--what do you think--pretty safe to say?

Maybe, maybe not. Look at Tiger Woods, most people wouldn't guess he's mixed by glancing at him.

I guess you could assume that Tadahito was all Japanese, and that Freddy and Ozzie are all Venezulean (sp), etc., but I don't know if you can even assume that.

African-Americans have been here just as long or longer than most of those with European ancestry. Like the other poster said, no one's ancestry is "pure" anymore. Most of their ancestry is not pure African.

I think all kinds of ancestry is interesting, that's why I was curious what Dye's other ancestry might be.

That being said, I missed the "honky" in your post, so I didn't realize that this thread was only about the paler members of the Sox team. Lo siento.

HitMan_naMtiH
05-04-2006, 01:14 PM
konerko couldnt derive or be an italian last name ...becasuse the letter k doesnt exsist in the italian language or alphabet!

Baby Fisk
05-04-2006, 02:00 PM
konerko couldnt derive or be an italian last name ...becasuse the letter k doesnt exsist in the italian language or alphabet!
Which would mean that his mother is Italian, and his father Polish.

bigsoxfan420
05-04-2006, 02:17 PM
I think Iguchi might be Lithuanian, actually.

Really? Becaue I heard he was from Batswana.

kevin57
05-04-2006, 04:17 PM
Seems like there are a lot of Polish baseball players. I wonder why there was no Team Poland in the WBC. They would've had to been more respectable than Teams Netherlands, South Africa or Australia.

Oh, this one is just begging for jokes. :wink:

mrs. hendu
05-04-2006, 04:37 PM
Seems like there are a lot of Polish baseball players. I wonder why there was no Team Poland in the WBC. They would've had to been more respectable than Teams Netherlands, South Africa or Australia.
OK Europe is all about soccer, basketball, volleyball and ski jumps. Baseball is more of a niche game for those who somehow know, like, and understand it. I myself didn't follow baseball until I first visited the States. As far as I know, there are some childrens' leagues in Poland and that's about it. :tongue: There are lots of players in MLB with Polish names because they grew up in the States and were exposed to baseball. Their heritage has nothing to do with baseball in that country.

chisox117
05-04-2006, 05:56 PM
Seems like there are a lot of Polish baseball players. I wonder why there was no Team Poland in the WBC. They would've had to been more respectable than Teams Netherlands, South Africa or Australia.

There are lots of players in MLB with Polish names because they grew up in the States and were exposed to baseball. Their heritage has nothing to do with baseball in that country.

Zespůł polski (myślę, że wygraliby!)would have been just as legitimate as team Italy. Did Italy have any Italian-born players?

:gulp: uwielbiam zimne piwo!

lumpyspun
05-04-2006, 08:08 PM
Zespůł polski (myślę, że wygraliby!)would have been just as legitimate as team Italy. Did Italy have any Italian-born players?

:gulp: uwielbiam zimne piwo!

I always thought it was "Polska"?

mrs. hendu
05-04-2006, 11:53 PM
I always thought it was "Polska"?

Polska = Poland
polski = Polish (masculine adjective)
polska = Polish (feminine adjective)

"Zespůł polski" = Polish team (zespůł is a masculine noun, hence it's paired with "polski" adjective).

Welcome to Polish grammar. :D: :cool:


chisox117 - nice Polish. Are you a native speaker?

chisox117
05-05-2006, 11:43 AM
chisox117 - nice Polish. Are you a native speaker?

Dziękuję. Iím not a native speaker. I picked up a lot from family growing up + I learned the finer points of grammar at Arizona State Univ.

:gulp: