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bigredrudy
04-30-2006, 01:20 PM
The Sox need a another lefthander in the bullpen. Neither Logan or Thornton seem to be the answer. Both Logan and Thornton don't seem to know where the ball is going. Thonton was lucky last night. He would have walked both Anderson and Erstad if they had been patient. I think Logan should be sent out and Lopez should be brought up. He is pitching very well at Charlotte. Now to Podsednik. Some say he is injured but I do not think so.If he is injured, then he has has been injured for almost one year. To me he has lost a step. He is not now the type of runner who can steal at will. He is an easy target for catchers who know he is going to run. He never changes his strategy. He simply runs when Iguchi is up. He has run into 5 outs during the last few games. Catchers simply call for high fastballs out of the zone or pitchouts and they nail him. Pods needs to be more selective. he still can be a good leadoff man even if he does not steal 60 bases. After all we have Thome following Iguchi. The need for a stolen base has diminished somewhat. the stolen base can be an effective tool but not if the percentage of making it is very low like Podsednik's. One think to note is Podsednik is much more adept at stealing third base than second. I think Pods needs to get on base and pose a threat but not run into easy outs on a consistent basis. He has to make the adjustment.

PicktoCLick72
04-30-2006, 01:26 PM
So Podsednik should stop stealing bases?

Lip Man 1
04-30-2006, 01:39 PM
Big Red:

Lopez was part of the cast of thousands who were tried out in the spring. He's a journeyman, cast-off who has had chances in the past and missed on every one of them.

No thank you.

When June or July rolls around Kenny will go out and pick up one or two proven relief guys. He's not going to trust a possible playoff spot or a post season championship to Matt Thonton and Boone Logan.

And the Sox don't have to have another left hander. It doesn't matter if the entire bullpen is right handed as long as they are getting the guys out that they need to.

Lip

viagracat
04-30-2006, 02:41 PM
Don't we already have a rag-on-Pods thread here?:?: :threadsucks

gobears1987
04-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Everyone please **** about Podsednik. So what if he got thrown out last night? It was a good pitch for Molina to throw on and also most of you are forgetting that Molina has a cannon for an arm. The people posting in panic over Podsednik are doing nothing except showing their ignorance.

ZachAL
04-30-2006, 03:00 PM
Everyone please **** about Podsednik. So what if he got thrown out last night? It was a good pitch for Molina to throw on and also most of you are forgetting that Molina has a cannon for an arm. The people posting in panic over Podsednik are doing nothing except showing their ignorance.

I'm not generally a dark cloud, but you can't just ignore this problem. Maybe last night was not his fault, but it doesnt change the fact that he has 4SB's this season and 4CS. This is a guy who 2 years ago was 70SB and 13CS. We can be critical or worried without being darkclouds. It's only a concern.

richb2
04-30-2006, 03:03 PM
having fun in anaheim two down one to go but on the serious side how can you even judge those two pitchers- they have hardly even pitched- in fact that was his first game like in 16 days and he did get anderson out-not saying we do not need an upgrade but lets try and be a little fair.

soxtalker
04-30-2006, 03:16 PM
I'll echo richb2's comment. These guys really haven't had that much chance to pitch with the game on the line. Look at our record in 1-run games compared to last year. Our hitting is improved, so we're tending to get involved in fewer close games. We need to wait until we go through a few more situations like that not only to evaluate these guys but also for them to develop.

But I do appreciate the concerns. We're playing well, but it is a long season. There are bound to be problems along the way.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-30-2006, 03:18 PM
He would have walked both Anderson and Erstad if they had been patient.
Didn't Anderson pop out on Thornton's first pitch? And from that, you project that he would have walked...:rolleyes:

Optipessimism
04-30-2006, 11:45 PM
Logan has looked like crap out there a couple of times, but in his defense he hasn't received a lot of playing time and he is essentially there in a mop up role.

Thornton looks like he could be another under-the-radar stealth maneuver by Kenny Williams. If he can find his control and maintain it, we just got another LH setup man with great stuff for Joe Borchard.

I think people fail to realize that Pods has to get into a rhythm on the basepaths. He will continue to find his timing and will start getting better jumps sooner than later. He's steadily raising his average now and putting good swings on the ball, so lay off him for a while. He needs to find his groove and its better he does it now than sometime late in the season.

IlliniSox4Life
04-30-2006, 11:54 PM
Remember when everyone was concerned about Pods' low BA? Well, a lot of people said give him time, and his swing has come around. He is getting on base a lot more now. Now that he's got that figured out, give him some time to figure out his step on the basepaths. It's far too early to over react to his low stealing percentage. Remember this is a guy who had almost no spring training. If he hasn't gotten better in about a month, it might be time to worry then.

elrod
05-01-2006, 12:01 AM
Matt Thornton is starting to look like a great reliever. I'm not sold on Logan yet. With Cotts and Politte settling in, I don't think we need to worry about Boone Logan at this point.

Lillian
05-01-2006, 12:01 AM
It is usually assumed that a team wants the fastest, and best base stealer to lead off.
At least in the case of a lineup such as the 2006 White Sox, that may not be the most effective way to maximize the skills and talents of their players. This team was very successful in 2005, utilizing Scott Podzednik’s base stealing prowess, especially in the first half of the season, before his groin injury. The team used a conventional method of getting him into scoring position, via the stolen base or the sacrifice. In that the Sox did not have many high on base percentage hitters following the number one and two hitters, Podzednik and Iguchi, it was arguably an effective strategy to get him into scoring position.
This year the Sox have a very potent three, four and five combination in their lineup. Jim Thome has made a significant improvement there, because he adds a power left handed bat, and because he makes the hitters batting in front and behind him much better.
The objective should now be to maximize base runners in front of those three hitters.
Asking Iguchi to sacrifice Podzednik to second, not only takes the bat out of Iguchi’s hands, but it also threatens to take the bat out of Thome’s hands as well. Pitchers are likely to pitch around Thome, with Pods on second, and first base open.
I wonder if the best way to maximize the run producing capacity of this team's 3, 4 and 5 hitters in the lineup is to sacrifice and steal less, and to attempt to increase the on base percentage of the first two hitters. With that objective in mind, I suggest switching Iguchi to the lead off spot and Pods to the number “two hole”. Iguchi has the potential to be a very high on base percentage hitter, at least comparable to Pods. The biggest risk in having the number two hitter hitting away, rather than having the number two hitter sacrifice, is the potential for hitting into a double play. Pods is faster to first base than Iguchi, both because of his foot speed, and because he is left handed. It takes a perfect double play ball in order for Pods to be doubled up at first.
In those instances where Pods grounds into a force play at second, but beats the relay to first, or reaches first on a hit, walk or error, he would still be on for Thome. Teams employing the shift would have a difficult time forcing Pods at second on a ground ball to the second baseman, playing deep with the defense shift, which is usually employed with Thome batting.
This radical change in the lineup could set up some huge innings for the Sox. I know that it sounds a lot like Billy Bean's strategy of high on base percentage players, but it would seem to suit this team. Of course, Pods running the Sox out of innings with his failed base stealing attempts, doesn't detract from this argument either. He really isn't nearly as successful as he was in the first half last year.
What do you all think about this lineup change?

TheOldRoman
05-01-2006, 12:04 AM
Im not even going to bother reading that because
A) It is way too long
B) There are no paragraphs to make it easier to read
C) Without knowing what radical change you are proposing, I can say the Sox are absolutely fine.

IlliniSox4Life
05-01-2006, 12:07 AM
I think we are 17-7 right now and whatever it is we are doing, it's working. Don't mess with what's not broke.

And for that matter, give Pods time. He's barely gotten his swing back, and now that he has, you expect him to be stealing 2nd and 3rd every time he gets on base? Let him get some practice, he should start to come around. He barely had a spring training.

QCIASOXFAN
05-01-2006, 12:09 AM
I agree on the Boone Logan situation but I am not ready to give up on Matt Thorton quite yet. He has a nasty fastball and if he locates it good he could be very effective. I don't think we should be worried about Pod's either, he really had no Spring training and like the last poster put,has not got into his rhythm yet or has the timing down.

QCIASOXFAN
05-01-2006, 12:17 AM
I think I just read a novel! I think that things are going pretty good right now and don't think all that tinkering would make us any better.

Chips
05-01-2006, 12:17 AM
Remember when everyone was concerned about Pods' low BA? Well, a lot of people said give him time, and his swing has come around. He is getting on base a lot more now. Now that he's got that figured out, give him some time to figure out his step on the basepaths. It's far too early to over react to his low stealing percentage. Remember this is a guy who had almost no spring training. If he hasn't gotten better in about a month, it might be time to worry then.

April was his spring training, I also think he will be fine fairly soon. And we're we have been kicking ass since that loss to KC.

CHISOXFAN13
05-01-2006, 12:19 AM
16-4 in the last 20.
36-10 in the last 46.

World champs and the owners of the best record in MLB.

Why change anything?

Jjav829
05-01-2006, 12:20 AM
Yeah, we definitely need a radical change in the lineup. :?:

I say we bat Thome in the leadoff spot.

And who is Podzednik?

DeadMoney
05-01-2006, 12:21 AM
I'm pretty sure thats more of a change in philosophy rather than a change in the line-up.

SOecks
05-01-2006, 12:24 AM
Yeah, we definitely need a radical change in the lineup. :?:

I say we bat Thome in the leadoff spot.

And who is Podzednik?

No, Thome should obviously be in the 9 hole with his recent strikeouts. Konerko should be leading off since he can sneak up on teams when he steals bases. Then you have AJ batting 2nd after Thome because he's a lefty and you need to change things up. Then you put Contreras in the third spot because he's big and angry (I assume). Yeah, that will take care of things...

TaylorStSox
05-01-2006, 12:30 AM
Remember when everyone was concerned about Pods' low BA? Well, a lot of people said give him time, and his swing has come around. He is getting on base a lot more now. Now that he's got that figured out, give him some time to figure out his step on the basepaths. It's far too early to over react to his low stealing percentage. Remember this is a guy who had almost no spring training. If he hasn't gotten better in about a month, it might be time to worry then.

Not hitting for a few weeks to start the season, and not being able to steal bags consistantly, for over a 1/2 year, are completely different. I think we have every right to voice some suspicion that a 30 year old may have "lost a step." Even if my suspicions are correct, it doesn't make Pods a bad leadoff hitter. If he gets on base, it's fine. We have a different team. We have a more powerful line up that, over time, may benefit from slowing the run game down.

The "ignorant" comment is uncalled for. It's not like we haven't been watching the games. There is reason to believe that something more than an injury is wrong. Even if it is an injury, who's to say that he'll ever recover completely. As I've stated several time, Pods was never really a burner. He was speedy, but not "holy **** that guy can fly fast." Losing just a little speed has really hurt his stealing prowess.

Go ahead and crucify me. :rolleyes:

FedEx227
05-01-2006, 12:32 AM
And who is Podzednik?

I think hes one of Mothra's lackeys

http://lightning.prohosting.com/%7Ebjgeiger/doodles/livingroom/Mothra/mothra.jpg

FedEx227
05-01-2006, 12:33 AM
Sorry about the double post... mods delete.

lumpyspun
05-01-2006, 12:39 AM
After he broke his beginning of the year slump, Pod"z" is hitting just as good as anyone else on the team. He's getting on base and he's a leadoff hitter, I wouldn't move him anywhere.

lizard6king6
05-01-2006, 12:55 AM
Lillian does make some decent points but i dont think there should be a change. Pods is fine, I think from last year the expectations for him are too high. Before coming to the sox the last season with the Brewers he hit .244! Pods will hit better than this this season and his steals will go up, in time it will be ok. And as others have said the lineup isnt broke so dont fix it. All will be ok!

IlliniSox4Life
05-01-2006, 01:18 AM
Not hitting for a few weeks to start the season, and not being able to steal bags consistantly, for over a 1/2 year, are completely different. I think we have every right to voice some suspicion that a 30 year old may have "lost a step." Even if my suspicions are correct, it doesn't make Pods a bad leadoff hitter. If he gets on base, it's fine. We have a different team. We have a more powerful line up that, over time, may benefit from slowing the run game down.

The "ignorant" comment is uncalled for. It's not like we haven't been watching the games. There is reason to believe that something more than an injury is wrong. Even if it is an injury, who's to say that he'll ever recover completely. As I've stated several time, Pods was never really a burner. He was speedy, but not "holy **** that guy can fly fast." Losing just a little speed has really hurt his stealing prowess.

Go ahead and crucify me. :rolleyes:

First, he was unable to steal effectively for about the last half of last year. Then he had surgery. He also missed most of spring training. He started of real slow hitting, and that picked up. There may be reason to think that he could have lost a step, but to act on it by switching the lineup or radically changing the philosophy of the team, which is what was being proposed in this thread, is ridiculous, and way to early to tell.

Second, when did I call you "ignorant"? Whose to say it's not an injury? Whose to say he wont recover completely? To change the lineup/philosophy of this team one month into the season without knowing more about Pods' health or without giving him some more time to come out of a slump is ridiculous. Why change it so quickly when we are still winning in spite of it? Like you did state before, Pods was never really a burner, he was more of an intelligent base stealer. So why when he is struggling do you assume it is his speed? He looks fine running in the outfield. It could be just mental. But no, let's go ahead and overact and assume he will never steal a base again in his life without giving him some more time to come around.

Tragg
05-01-2006, 01:21 AM
Everyone please **** about Podsednik. So what if he got thrown out last night? It was a good pitch for Molina to throw on....

It sure was; it was as almost as good as a pitchout.

Tragg
05-01-2006, 01:23 AM
Thonton was lucky last night. He would have walked both Anderson and Erstad if they had been patient. John Franco had a long career throwing but garbage out of the strike-zone. He's not doing too badly...let's see how it shapes up in 2 months.

TaylorStSox
05-01-2006, 01:33 AM
First, he was unable to steal effectively for about the last half of last year. Then he had surgery. He also missed most of spring training. He started of real slow hitting, and that picked up. There may be reason to think that he could have lost a step, but to act on it by switching the lineup or radically changing the philosophy of the team, which is what was being proposed in this thread, is ridiculous, and way to early to tell.

Second, when did I call you "ignorant"? Whose to say it's not an injury? Whose to say he wont recover completely? To change the lineup/philosophy of this team one month into the season without knowing more about Pods' health or without giving him some more time to come out of a slump is ridiculous. Why change it so quickly when we are still winning in spite of it? Like you did state before, Pods was never really a burner, he was more of an intelligent base stealer. So why when he is struggling do you assume it is his speed? He looks fine running in the outfield. It could be just mental. But no, let's go ahead and overact and assume he will never steal a base again in his life without giving him some more time to come around.

First, I never suggested a change in the line up (this thread was merged with Lillian's after my initial post). For now, I think Pods should have the red light though. So yes, I do think there needs to be a change in philosophy. Right now, we're mashing the ball. By getting caught stealing, Pods will run us out of innings. If he gets his legs back and the 3,4,5 hitters come back to earth a little, then he should press the issue more and start up the running game. All of the .300 hitters in the line up are masking the issue.

Secondly, we both agree that Pods was never really a burner. He stole bases with good technique. With that said, he never beat throws by a mile. With a slight drop in speed, the bang bang plays that went in his favor are going against him.

It's not a huge issue, but it's still relevant. Injury or not, more than a half year of poor performance is cause for concern. Since the ASG 05 I believe Pods has stolen 19 bases and been caught 18 times. Those aren't the numbers of a stolen base threat.

Let's not forget, even last year amid all the talk of "Ozzie ball," the offense wasn't very good. We won with pitching. If we had that staff in '04, with a healthy line up, we probably go deep into the playoffs.

Finally, the ignorant comment wasn't directed at you. It was directed at another poster. I apologize for the confusion.

IlliniSox4Life
05-01-2006, 01:55 AM
First, I never suggested a change in the line up (this thread was merged with Lillian's after my initial post). For now, I think Pods should have the red light though. So yes, I do think there needs to be a change in philosophy. Right now, we're mashing the ball. By getting caught stealing, Pods will run us out of innings. If he gets his legs back and the 3,4,5 hitters come back to earth a little, then he should press the issue more and start up the running game. All of the .300 hitters in the line up are masking the issue.

Secondly, we both agree that Pods was never really a burner. He stole bases with good technique. With that said, he never beat throws by a mile. With a slight drop in speed, the bang bang plays that went in his favor are going against him.

It's not a huge issue, but it's still relevant. Injury or not, more than a half year of poor performance is cause for concern. Since the ASG 05 I believe Pods has stolen 19 bases and been caught 18 times. Those aren't the numbers of a stolen base threat.

Let's not forget, even last year amid all the talk of "Ozzie ball," the offense wasn't very good. We won with pitching. If we had that staff in '04, with a healthy line up, we probably go deep into the playoffs.

Finally, the ignorant comment wasn't directed at you. It was directed at another poster. I apologize for the confusion.

I know you didn't suggest a change in the lineup, but the thread you originally posted in suggested a pretty big change in philiosophy. There's nothing wrong with Pods realizing he doesn't have it right now and being more careful than normal. While our big guys are hitting them out though is the time to work it out. Might as well try to fix his mechanics when the rest of the lineup is scoring 5-10 runs a night and not wait until they're putting up 0-4 runs.

My whole point is, we're winning. Its not a big enough deal to cause us to lose, and it might not even be a deal at all, Pods hasn't had enough time this year since his surgery to figure everything out. Why be so quick to tell him to stop trying to steal and change the way he play him in the game when it's not effecting us.

Also, Ozzie Ball was never really about offense. Ozzie ball is 3/4 pitching and defense and 1/4 get on base/steal/score. We'll still win with pitching this year, even if Pods gets thrown out his next 10 times attempting a steal. If we can have him develop his ability back to where it was though, when we need a SB in crunch time, it's just an extra tool we have to use.

hawkjt
05-01-2006, 02:56 AM
Victor Martinez of the indians has thrown out 1 of 20 basestealers this year. Ya think we might run tomorrow nite and tues? I do.

Go Pods go.

As for thornton- he is fine.

16-3 in our last 19- dont change a thing.

Taliesinrk
05-01-2006, 03:12 AM
I propose moving Ozuna to permanent LF starter, because he has overtaken Pod"z" for stolen base guru on our team...

Lillian
05-01-2006, 08:00 AM
I suggest switching Iguchi to the lead off spot and Pods to the number “two hole”. Iguchi has the potential to be a very high on base percentage hitter, at least comparable to Pods. The biggest risk in having the number two hitter hitting away, rather than having the number two hitter sacrifice, is the potential for hitting into a double play. Pods is faster to first base than Iguchi, both because of his foot speed, and because he is left handed. It takes a perfect double play ball in order for Pods to be doubled up at first.


This was the main point of my post. I'm sorry that it was so lengthy, but I still would like to get your opinions on this.

voodoochile
05-01-2006, 08:30 AM
This was the main point of my post. I'm sorry that it was so lengthy, but I still would like to get your opinions on this.
Pods does not offer the protection nor the power that Iguchi does. Switching them is a bad idea. If Pods isn't leading off they should move Crede to the two hole and move Pods to 9th.

Edit: In short, they should just leave it alone, because right now there is nothing on this team that remotely resembles broken, so why would we try to fix it?

TomBradley72
05-01-2006, 09:07 AM
Thornton looks pretty good to me...we knew he was a "project" when we picked him up. One month into the season..a 3.18 ERA...with two walks (the other 3 are intentional)...he looks like an improvement from Marte. He has 90+ mph stuff....he should continue to improve under Coop.
Pods looks like he is still recovering from the injuries/off season surgeries...but his average is climbing. His SB pct. is a concern...but he's also been thrown out by some catchers with great arms (Mauer, IRod, etc.)...so I think it's too early to panic.
Boone Logan is the last guy on the staff...a 2.70 ERA is pretty good for your mop up guy. Not saying he's great....but not exactly Jose Paniagua.
Iguchi is one of the best #2 hitters in MLB...he should not be moved anywhere else in the line up.At best these are minor concerns...."radical" is overstating it.

voodoochile
05-01-2006, 09:19 AM
At best these are minor concerns...."radical" is overstating it.

I must clarify something...

I merged two threads. One was about the Pods and Iguchi switch. One was about the bullpen and Pods SB percentage. One had the word Radical in it's title, one was just looking at two areas of concern - from that poster's perspective. I added the word radical to the title, so the original posters would know where to look for their threads. I considered moving both of them to WTS as they still strike me as major non-issues just swept the other team to make the ALCS on the road to close out April with the best record in baseball.

It's like the worry/tinker of the week/day club.

I repeat... there is nothing broken on this team. There is no need to try and fix it...

Ol' No. 2
05-01-2006, 09:53 AM
Logan and Thornton currently have the lowest ERA's and, except for Jenks, the lowest BAA in the pen.

Get rid of the bums!!

PaulDrake
05-01-2006, 09:58 AM
Everyone please **** about Podsednik. So what if he got thrown out last night? It was a good pitch for Molina to throw on and also most of you are forgetting that Molina has a cannon for an arm. The people posting in panic over Podsednik are doing nothing except showing their ignorance. I'm not in panic, but am concerned about Podsednik. He's not been the same base stealer since coming back from his injury last year. The quick start is missing, he looks like he's running on sand his first few steps. The closing speed appears to be off a little too. Perhaps he's favoring the groin, fearful of reinjuring it. Whatever it is, he's not the same on the basepaths. Since the team hitting has been there it hasn't mattered. Whether or not this qualifies me as being ignorant, I leave it for you to decide.

cbotnyse
05-01-2006, 10:23 PM
Pods, 4 stolen bases tonight...dark clouds, gone.

TaylorStSox
05-01-2006, 10:56 PM
Pods, 4 stolen bases tonight...dark clouds, gone.

n00b be gone


http://www.unmc.edu/eye/Media/PatsEye.png
http://www.everypicture.com/shop/books/857a8bc6b1859daee5315d63db9aa982/eat.jpg
http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/carrioncrowart180_tcm3-56439.jpg

scottjanssens
05-02-2006, 10:57 AM
Logan and Thornton currently have the lowest ERA's and, except for Jenks, the lowest BAA in the pen.

Get rid of the bums!!
Shame on you Ol', No. 2. You know better than to look solely at ERA to measure a reliever's performance. I see Logan has allowed all 4 of his inherited runners to score and has a fairly high WHIP of 1.50. Thornton has only allowed 1 of 3 inherited runners to score but has an astoundingly high WHIP of 2.12.

While I'm not worried in the least, I can't say I've much confidence in the new arms.

EDIT: ok, you didn't look "solely" at ERA. But walks don't figure into BAA.

ondafarm
05-02-2006, 11:10 AM
Mods, can we get this thread locked?

The White Sox have the best record in Major League Baseball, just swept their opposition in last year's ALCS and have both the #2 ranked offense in the league and the #3 pitching staff. Our lead-off man just stole 4 bases in one game and our big thumpers are thumping with the best of them.

Am I concerned?

Oh woe are the White Sox, we need to have eight starting pitchers and a lineup full of sluggers who have high OBP and can steal bases and play gold glove defense in every position.

Please!!!

scottjanssens
05-02-2006, 11:14 AM
Mods, can we get this thread locked?

Heh. Just wait until the Sox go through a .500 phase or drop 5 or 6 in a row (every team does at some point).