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Chisox1500
04-27-2006, 05:51 PM
ESPN writes that they would have won 3 to 5 more division titles.

Fun article, scroll down to Sox/Bonds stuff.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/060427

1951Campbell
04-27-2006, 05:55 PM
ESPN writes that they would have won 3 to 5 more division titles.



Hmm. I didn't know he could pitch.

MUsoxfan
04-27-2006, 06:13 PM
And we'd have exactly zero World Series rings. Bonds has a tendency to not win those

Chisox1500
04-27-2006, 06:16 PM
I don't think Bonds not winning in 2002 had anything to do with his personal performance. Put him on a team with the right pitching and without Dusty managing and the tendency would change.

spiffie
04-27-2006, 06:45 PM
And we'd have exactly zero World Series rings. Bonds has a tendency to not win those
Yeah, because a guy who hits 471/700/1290 with 4HR in a 7 game series is the kind of choker who doesn't have a chance. Perhaps he should have stepped in for Nen so they don't blow a 5 run lead in late innings of Game 6.

FedEx227
04-27-2006, 06:46 PM
Put him on a team with the right pitching and without Dusty managing and the tendency would change.
^ Ever heard of the 1992 Pirates?

MUsoxfan
04-27-2006, 06:57 PM
Yeah, because a guy who hits 471/700/1290 with 4HR in a 7 game series is the kind of choker who doesn't have a chance. Perhaps he should have stepped in for Nen so they don't blow a 5 run lead in late innings of Game 6.



Bonds has zero rings now and will have zero rings at the end of his career.

johnr1note
04-27-2006, 07:20 PM
Nah. Ken Harrelson was the GM at that time. He would have never drafted bonds, because we had Jon Cangelosi.

And if we did draft him, Larry Himes would have included him in the package to Texas with Harold Baines so we could get Larry's love child, Sammy.

dickallen15
04-27-2006, 07:24 PM
Nah. Ken Harrelson was the GM at that time. He would have never drafted bonds, because we had Jon Cangelosi.

And if we did draft him, Larry Himes would have included him in the package to Texas with Harold Baines so we could get Larry's love child, Sammy.

Hawk was not the GM when Kurt Brown was selected ahead of Bonds.

Fuller_Schettman
04-27-2006, 09:46 PM
Interesting story on Page 2 about the all time worst draft picks in sports history. Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/060427)

This is rather fascinating:

8. Kurt Brown, Chicago White Sox (No. 5, 1985)
The baseball draft is much more of a crapshoot than basketball or football, but the first four picks of the '85 draft yielded four college players who had long and productive careers: B.J. Surhoff, Will Clark, Bobby Witt and Barry Larkin.
The White Sox then drafted a high school catcher from California named Kurt Brown; he never reached the majors.
With the sixth pick, the Pirates selected Arizona State outfielder Barry Bonds. From 1986 through 2004, the White Sox finished in second place nine times. How many years would Bonds have been the difference in making the playoffs? Using the ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia, we can compare the numbers of wins Bonds generated over an average left fielder to the White Sox left fielder each season:

I tried to paste the table, but it won't format to be readable so you will need to clicky linky

Corlose 15
04-27-2006, 09:53 PM
The only thing Bonds would have been useful for would be to hit ahed or behind Frank in 1993. He had no protection whatsoever in the 93 ALCS, but at that time Bonds was nowhere to be seen come playoff time so you never know.

Anyone else notice that all these seasons in which Bonds would have been the difference maker don't come until AFTER he started taking steroids?

Hitmen77
04-27-2006, 10:12 PM
It's amazing that ESPN has the power to visit alternate realities to find out what might have happened.

Seriously though, even if the Sox drafted Bonds, after 1992 - HE GONE! Just like he left Pittsburgh for SF chances are he would have left the Sox. So, it might be that the only season where Bonds may have made a difference was 1990 - when the Sox won 94 games and missed the playoffs.

TDog
04-27-2006, 10:32 PM
^ Ever heard of the 1992 Pirates?

So if the Sox hadn't returned Bobby Bonilla to the Pirates in 1986 AND drafted Barry Bonds in 1985 ...

Maybe they would have had a team in 1988 that wouldn't have lost 90 games, and the Sox wouldn't have been in the position to have the seventh-overall pick in the June 1989 draft. Maybe instead of Frank Thomas, who wouldn't have been available to the Sox, Barry Bonds would be the franchise slugger a generation of Sox fans grew up with.

And maybe Frank Thomas would have ended up with the Cubs.

The Sox are defending World Series champions. I'm not going the complain about a bad draft pick 21 summers ago. I'm happy, baseball-wise.

And I'm not unhappy that Barry Bonds never played for the White Sox.

santo=dorf
04-27-2006, 11:28 PM
Bonds has zero rings now and will have zero rings at the end of his career.
What's your point? Teams win the rings, not individual players.

MUsoxfan
04-27-2006, 11:41 PM
What's your point? Teams win the rings, not individual players.

Exactly. He's one of the ultimate 'me' guys out there. The antithesis of what wins championships

spiffie
04-27-2006, 11:53 PM
Exactly. He's one of the ultimate 'me' guys out there. The antithesis of what wins championships
You're right. If only he was less self-absorbed like Manny Ramirez, Reggie Jackson, Jose Canseco, or the many other upstanding citizens with World Series rings.

pmck003
04-28-2006, 06:25 AM
As much as I usually say innocent until proven guilty, bonds dosen't supposedly help us until a certain year.

White Sox Randy
04-28-2006, 10:41 AM
He fails to mention how Bonds would have surely left via free agency before they won anything with him and how the cub-biased media in this town would have made him out to be the worst person that ever lived - making the treatment they gave Frank Thomas look like a lovefest.

Flight #24
04-28-2006, 11:28 AM
Actually, the worse mistake, IMO was back when the Sox signed Albert Belle. Supposedly JR went to Frank and asked him who they whould sign between Belle & Bonds and Frank said Belle.

In fairness, Albert was about the most feared hitter in baseball at the time, but in hindsight, it seems like they could have had Barry, who's obviously been the better player since then. (Ignoring the obvious drug issues, etc and not meaning to provide any commentary on them since that's kind of OT for this thread).

Iwritecode
04-28-2006, 12:44 PM
27. through 18. Kansas City Royals' first-round picks, 1992-2001

Ouch. Could've had guys like Derrek Lee, Barry Zito or Lance Berkman. :o:

No wonder the Royals have sucked for so long...

Iwritecode
04-28-2006, 12:50 PM
Hmm. I didn't know he could pitch.

Exactly.

I don't care how many more wins Bonds "generated over an average left fielder" in 2001-2004. What the hell kind of stat is that anyway? Our problem back then was the fact we didn't have a fifth starter. Sometimes we barely had a fourth...


BTW, did anyone NOT correctly guess #1 before they even read it?

PatK
04-28-2006, 01:32 PM
If only we had him in 2001 and 2003, Wells would have pitched better, Koch wouldn't have blown any saves, and Manuel would have made better decisions.

mccoydp
04-28-2006, 01:41 PM
^ Ever heard of the 1992 Pirates?

And the 1991 Pirates! Touche!

He and Bobby Bonilla were awesome in the NLCS.

longshot7
04-28-2006, 01:46 PM
I love Barry, and while I'm currently salivating at the what-might-have-been combo of Thomas & Bonds in 91 & 92, whoever pointed out that Bonds might have left anyway for SF is completely right-on. It didn't happen - but baseball is full of what if's...... and while not getting obsessed with them, it's fun to fantasize.

32nd&Wallace
04-28-2006, 04:55 PM
This list makes no sense. Why is the Derek Jeter pick at 80 a bad pick? I know they say that the Expos picked someone ahead of him. So why don't they list the name of the person they picked instead of Jeter.

spiffie
04-28-2006, 05:46 PM
This list makes no sense. Why is the Derek Jeter pick at 80 a bad pick? I know they say that the Expos picked someone ahead of him. So why don't they list the name of the person they picked instead of Jeter.
I believe that entry would have been made in teal had it been done on WSI.

Britt Burns
04-28-2006, 05:48 PM
Screw Bonds, the pick that upset me was in '97 when they took Jason dellareo over Lance Berkman, who was the very next pick for the Astros. Dellareo couldn't even hit for average in college, much less make contact in the pros. They fell in love with that canon arm.

batmanZoSo
04-28-2006, 07:34 PM
Holy crap, did you see the Royals 92-01 draft picks? Yeah, they suck because of revenue. :rolleyes: Morons.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2006, 08:17 PM
Flight:

That did in fact happen. JR asked Frank and he said Belle. JR said 'you know Bonds may be available...' and Frank again said 'Belle.'

Lip

Flight #24
04-28-2006, 10:03 PM
Flight:

That did in fact happen. JR asked Frank and he said Belle. JR said 'you know Bonds may be available...' and Frank again said 'Belle.'

Lip

That's how I remembered it. In his defense, Belle was coming off of a .311BA / 48HR / 148RBI season and was a year removed from this 50HR-50 double year. Bonds was no slouch, but it was really only in the next few years that they diverged significantly at the plate.

Of course, Frank may also have known that Bonds was beginning to juice or think about it whereas Albert was just an ass.

TDog
04-29-2006, 02:07 AM
The fact that there were scouts in the Sox organization who were with the team when Bobby Bonds enjoyed his stop with the White Sox, I have to wonder if not picking Barry Bonds in the draft was out of design.

Maybe the organization knew Barry Bonds wouldn't sign.

fusillirob1983
04-29-2006, 02:47 AM
Overall, I thought the part on that page about the Royals was the funniest, and I guess the saddest. You'd think they'd accidentally pick someone good with so many early picks.

As for not drafting Bonds, it doesn't matter much to me. Last October was worth the wait, and who knows what would've happened even if they had Bonds for the past 20 years.

Oh yeah, and this is my 500th post, exactly one day before being on WSI for two years!

Lip Man 1
04-29-2006, 01:23 PM
Roland Hemond was the GM for that draft. I spoke with him last night on the phone and will again next week. I'll ask him about it.

Lip

dickallen15
04-29-2006, 01:26 PM
If the Sox had drafted Bonds and he signed, a lot of things would have been different. There is a huge question as to whether McDowell, Ventura, Fernandez or Thomas would have ever been with the organization